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So you're saying there were also terrorists at the bottom of the buildings and they detonated the bombs when the plane crashed? Or maybe there were just bombs put into place? [][]

So are you and psikeyhackr on the same page here about this WTC business? Except you seem to have a theory that they were blown up! Or is that just my misunderstanding? []

WRT Conservation of Momentum and the collapse of the Towers, if you could remove all the columns and just have the floors magically hovering until they were impacted then the mass alone of the hovering floors would still slow the collapsing mass more than what happened on 9/11.

You want a petition signed Mr. psikeyhackr?

Alright alright, just calm down matey. Of course I understand.

. v == initial velocity Time V = at + v D = 1/2 at^2 + vt v = 0 00.1 3.2 ft/sec 0.16 ft 1.92 in. 00.2 6.4 ft/sec 0.64 ft 7.68 in. 00.3 9.6 ft/sec 1.44 ft 17.28 1n. 00.4 12.8 ft/sec 2.56 ft 00.5 16.0 ft/sec 4.00 ft 00.6 19.2 ft/sec 5.76 ft 00.7 22.4 ft/sec 7.84 ft 00.8 25.6 ft/sec 10.24 ft 00.9 28.8 ft/sec 12.96 ft 01.0 32.0 ft/sec 16.00 ft 01.1 35.2 ft/sec 19.36 ft 01.2 38.4 ft/sec 23.04 ft 01.3 41.6 ft/sec 27.04 ft 01.4 44.8 ft/sec 31.36 ft 01.5 48.0 ft/sec 36.00 ft 01.6 51.2 ft/sec 40.96 ft 01.7 54.4 ft/sec 46.24 ft 01.8 57.6 ft/sec 51.84 ft 01.9 60.8 ft/sec 57.76 ft 02.0 64.0 ft/sec 64.00 ft

. mass 1 mass 2 mass 3 mass 4 64 feet feet 48 feet 32 feet 16 Case 0 10 ton 0 0 0 speed 0 32 45.25 55.43 64 ft/sec time 0 1 1.41 1.73 2 sec Case 1 2.5 ton 2.5 2.5 2.5 speed 0 32 16 35.78 23.85 39.91 29.93 43.82 ft/sec time 0 1 1.618 14% 2.12 23% 2.554 sec 28% Case 2 1 ton 2 3 4 speed 0 32 10.67 33.74 16.87 36.17 21.70 38.66 ft/sec time 0 1 1.721 22% 2.324 34% 2.854 sec 43% Case 3 4 ton 3 2 1 speed 0 32 18.29 37.35 29.05 43.23 38.91 50.37 ft/sec time 0 1 1.58 12% 2.023 17% 2.381 sec 19%

. After Impact #1: Case 1: 16 = 16t^2 + 16t 1 = t^2 + t t = 0.618 19.78+16 Case 2: 16 = 16t^2 + 10.67t 1 = t^2 + 0.666875t t = 0.721 23.07+10.67 Case 3: 16 = 16t^2 + 18.29t 1 = t^2 + 1.143125t t = 0.58 18.56+18.79 After Impact #2: Case 1: 16 = 16t^2 + 23.85t 1 = t^2 + 1.490625t t = 0.502 16.06+23.85 Case 2: 16 = 16t^2 + 16.87t 1 = t^2 + 1.054375t t = 0.603 19.30+16.87 Case 3: 16 = 16t^2 + 29.05t 1 = t^2 + 1.815625t t = 0.443 14.18+29.05 After Impact #3: Case 1: 16 = 16t^2 + 29.93t 1 = t^2 + 1.870781t t = 0.434 13.89+29.93 Case 2: 16 = 16t^2 + 21.70t 1 = t^2 + 1.35625t t = 0.53 16.96+21.70 Case 3: 16 = 16t^2 + 38.91t 1 = t^2 + 2.431875t t = 0.358 11.46+38.91

The examples you've calculated are the wrong ones.You need to calculate the case with 1,2,4,8 or other exponentially increasing masses. That's what the mass in the WTC did-

Uh huh. So you presumably did the calculation and it didn't work.It's all nonsense anyway; the building did fall down in the time that is showed on the video.I don't care what calculation you can show that says otherwise; it fell down in that particular time. If your calculation says otherwise, your calculation is wrong.

It's all nonsense anyway; the building did fall down in the time that is showed on the video.I don't care what calculation you can show that says otherwise; it fell down in that particular time. If your calculation says otherwise, your calculation is wrong.The other thing you're failing to consider is that the structural failure happened at the speed of sound in steel. That's 4.5 km/s, so the entire metal structure can fail in the time that it takes the shock wave to travel the length of the building; very short. Basically the whole top few floors of the building acts as a pile drive and after falling onto the bottom section, the whole structure will fail in about a tenth of a second, then it's just gravity acting; everything just falls together.

Quote from: wolfekeeper on 16/05/2009 21:17:19It's all nonsense anyway; the building did fall down in the time that is showed on the video.I don't care what calculation you can show that says otherwise; it fell down in that particular time. If your calculation says otherwise, your calculation is wrong.The other thing you're failing to consider is that the structural failure happened at the speed of sound in steel. That's 4.5 km/s, so the entire metal structure can fail in the time that it takes the shock wave to travel the length of the building; very short. Basically the whole top few floors of the building acts as a pile drive and after falling onto the bottom section, the whole structure will fail in about a tenth of a second, then it's just gravity acting; everything just falls together.The upper portions of these buildings are approx 1/5 the mass of the lower portions, if anything is going to be smashed on impact it will be the weak upper portion, not the stronger undamaged lower portions.

With regard to earlier discussion of the mass of the building increasing lower down, I'm pretty sure it is only the steel columns that get bigger and thicker, the concrete and steel girders for the floors are uniform throughout the whole building.

If, for example the mass of the building goes 1,2,4,8,16and 1,2 falls onto 4, and 4 is designed to withstand 50% at dynamic overload, let's assume that floor 1 and 2 acts as if it was twice as heavy when it impacts (due to momentum), then 4 will immediately fail and then 1,2,4 will fall onto 8, which will immediately fail and so on; the percentage overload *increases* as the failure propagates 1+2+4/8 is 7/8 whereas 1+2/4 is only 3/4.Probably, but it doesn't matter; the total mass still goes up exponentially along the length of the building.

You haven't even attempted to scale things appropriately.I'm sorry but your simulation is simply nonsense, it is so very far removed from the real mass distribution, strength and speeds of the WTC that you can draw no conclusions at all.

How can you build scaled models demonstrating the physics if you don't have the distribution of mass data on the subject?