a circuit that produces overunity results.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #50 on: 30/05/2009 14:19:15 »
By the way - I wouldn't refer to it as a 'path to enlightenment'.  I'm not enlightened at all.  There are many, many questions that need answers.  I systematically list them in my field model.  But I'm pointing - in the eternal hope that somebody better qualified can pick up on this.  I cannot stress this enough.  I am entirely underqualified to comment at all.  But I can certainly point at the general shape and hope that someone can get to the 'skeleton' so to speak.  I suspect that the general direction is right because it clarifies so much. 

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #51 on: 30/05/2009 14:33:58 »
Sorry Vern - I think I missed the point of your question.  This is it.  If light is the fastest thing that we have - to measure with, and if something moved faster than the speed of light (the theoretical potential of a tachyon) then how would we ever find it?  And if the something that 'moved the light' - which is an absurdly simplistic description, but bear with me - then we would never know of that something.  It would, forever move outside the range of our measuring abilities, constrained as it is to the speed of light.  An invisible force. 

Does that answer it.  And general apologies to any readers, for cluttering the thread with three consecutive posts.

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Offline Vern

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #52 on: 30/05/2009 16:30:59 »
Quote from: witsend
I had no idea that anything could exceed light speed.  Isn't that the final barrier?  Never to be breached. Needs infinite energy therefore also infinite mass?  I really do not understand this concept except in this very basic sense.  If you're referring to the electron's orbit in the nucleus - then again, in term of known classical theory I understood that 2C was outside the limit of it's velocity?  Have I missed something?
In media, such as water, electrons generated by neutron decay exceed the speed of light in that media. It is still slightly slower than light in a vacuum.

This Wiki link explains it.

Quote from: the link
Cherenkov radiation (also spelled Cerenkov or Čerenkov) is electromagnetic radiation emitted when a charged particle (such as an electron) passes through an insulator at a constant speed greater than the speed of light in that medium. The characteristic "blue glow" of nuclear reactors is due to Cherenkov radiation. It is named after Russian scientist Pavel Alekseyevich Cherenkov, the 1958 Nobel Prize winner who was the first to characterise it rigorously.

« Last Edit: 30/05/2009 16:34:09 by Vern »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #53 on: 30/05/2009 20:08:31 »
I've just looked up the Chernekov radiation effect.  It's interesting.  But it's still, at best, within light speed.  I wonder if this would explain it better.  The model points out that everything has a boundary constraint.  So. If we had a machine that threw rocks - it could do so, provided always that it could lift the rock or detect the rock. Assuming then that it operated in a vacuum - so no extraneous forces to introduce variables,  and assuming it always 'threw' with a constant force, then the smaller rock would be thrown to a greater distance than the bigger rock.  But if it were too big or too small it could either not detect it or it could not lift it.  So, too big or too small and it couldn't interact. That would be its boundary constraint.

Well, what is proposed is that at that 'singularity' or any such, the zipons are 'expelled' from that highly structured, all pervasive magnetic field.  They become truants either slowing down and gaining mass, or speeding up and losing mass.  Either way they are outside the boundary constraints of the magnetic field.  They are too big or too small to interact with the zipons in the field.

In point of fact the model proposes that all stable particles are composites of these zipons.  And both states are required. If the composite were a photon then it would comprise two truants.  The one would be too big and the other too small to interact with the field.  If it were an electron it would comprise three truants, the one being too big the other too small and the third - like Golidlock's porridge, would be just right.  It would interact with the field continually.  And the final more complex composite would be the proton - a fusion of three electrons.

The truants would need to interact with each other.  This is based on the general principle of the zipons need to attach and orbit to express a zero net charge state - hence the structured magnetic field.  In the same way truants would need to attach and orbit to express a zero net charge state. Otherwise they would simply decay back into the field.  The composite truants anchor each other out of the field.  But they still orbit each other.  But it's a helical orbit on a shared and imagninary axis.  In other words they swap places, the one becoming bigger and the other becoming smaller.  Then they reverse positions - and so on.  A really boring dance step. 

But during that orbit - that systematic progression from big to small, they both inevitably also progress towards the velocity and mass of the field which is constant.  If the bigger truant gets smaller and the smaller truant gets bigger - then at some stage they'll get to the coincident mass/velocity of the zipon in the field.  Then, at that point, their composite charge will be influenced by the field and the field and the particle will interact.  At that point the field would move the particle in some direction precisely because it is then within the boundary constraint of the field of zipons - that broad all-encompassing field.

The electron's composite is such that one truant would always be the same velocity/mass of the zipon.  Therefore it moves in spiral which is a bi-directional path.  A photon would move in one direction as it has a neutral charge.  The proton would also continually interact with the field but it is proposed that the proton's field is a closed system effectively generating its own magnetic field or system.

Is that any clearer? 

     
« Last Edit: 31/05/2009 07:51:12 by witsend »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #54 on: 31/05/2009 09:57:22 »
By the way - the proposal is that the truant is manifest.  But when it interacts with its partner/partners - those composites - it actually partially decays back to the field's coincident mass/size - so to speak.  At that point it disappears from our measurable dimensions.  It 'flickers' out of view.  so the need for symmetry also requires that the 'non-manifest' part of each particle is always there as an anchor.  I've proposed that this is a quark.  While this is co-incident with observation - it certainly is not in line with conventional science. But nor does it entirely contradict known evidence.

So, in effect, we can never see or measure anything outside our own dimensions.  Light speed a kind of final frontier.

You know, what I've been writing about is really very contentious.  I'm surprised that I haven't needed to defend it.  I know from experience that the older generation of trained physicists are positively antagonised.  But younger ones not so much.  Maybe it's because they're just more tolerant of new ideas.  Whatever.  I feel 'spared' and am glad of it.  But I would welcome critical input.  I'm a rank amateur - as mentioned.  Or is it like Puali's complaint to some absurd theory proposed - that it's so preposterous it cannot even be proved false? 
« Last Edit: 31/05/2009 10:35:50 by witsend »

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Offline Vern

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #55 on: 31/05/2009 13:32:04 »
Quote from: witsend
By the way - the proposal is that the truant is manifest.  But when it interacts with its partner/partners - those composites - it actually partially decays back to the field's coincident mass/size - so to speak.  At that point it disappears from our measurable dimensions.  It 'flickers' out of view.  so the need for symmetry also requires that the 'non-manifest' part of each particle is always there as an anchor.  I've proposed that this is a quark.  While this is co-incident with observation - it certainly is not in line with conventional science. But nor does it entirely contradict known evidence.
I had gleaned from your posts that the truant was manifest and zipons were not. And I see that the difference is that zipons always move at twice light speed. You have thought about the composition of electrons, protons, and even quarks.

You must have learned enough about established theory to disagree with it. What is it about established theory that led you to conjure up an alternative?

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #56 on: 31/05/2009 14:18:36 »
What is it about established theory that led you to conjure up an alternative?
Vern

Just a whole lot of questions.  With the utmost respect to Heisenberg and Bohr - I could not see why we were not allowed to 'conceptualise' the atom or its particles.  It was as much to say that the human intellect was somehow 'flawed'.  This elitist preclusion to 'finding answers' also somehow barred us from trying to resolve the EPR paradox and others.  I fully sympathised with Einstein, the Giant - as I also believe that 'God does not play dice with the universe.'  But Einstein lost that argument as superluminal communication has been proven.  My own take is that God would not have given us logic without intending us to apply it. And I think that the final expression of particle interactions is actually in fractal geometry.

So - in a way I side with Einstein - the difference being that 'he knew better whereof he spoke'. I'm a rank amateur.  But, if I'm half way to some answers then that should be very encouraging to others.  It shows what the average layman can come up with.  I think we give up a lot of our 'rights' when we let one group of specialists tell us what or how to think.  If we've got any right at all it's to find our own answers.  The difference between us is just in the questions that we ask.
« Last Edit: 01/06/2009 04:49:17 by witsend »

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Offline Vern

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #57 on: 31/05/2009 16:09:01 »
Quote from: witsend
But Einstein lost that argument as superluminal communication has been proven.
I think you will find that superluninal communication has not happened. In the case of tunnelling light pulses, the output pulse is always shorter than the input and is completely contained within the time envelope of the input pulse. In the case of entangled particles, there is a big puzzle about how the partner particle seems to instantly reflect the state of the other particle. But there has as yet been no mechanism for communication.

So it was the philosophically unsound principles of Quantum theory that led you to contemplate an alternative. I have studied alternative theories a lot. A lot of the advocates cite QM's philosophical flaw as a reason. I share your view that elitist preclusion should play no part in scientific study. But I see no evidence that there is a tendency among the scientific elite to preclude such study. We are in fact doing alternative study right here, right now.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #58 on: 31/05/2009 16:45:31 »
In the case of entangled particles, there is a big puzzle about how the partner particle seems to instantly reflect the state of the other particle. But there has as yet been no mechanism for communication.

Are entangled particles the same as paired particles?  I must look this up.

But I see no evidence that there is a tendency among the scientific elite to preclude such study.

I'm referring to Bohr's insistence that the particles and atoms could never be conceptualised outside of mathematics. 

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #59 on: 31/05/2009 17:40:42 »
Entangled not quite the same.  They apparently 'average out' - no predictable spin pattern.  But paired particles do have predictable spin.  Influence the one and the other responds simultaneously.  I understood that this has been proven at separation distances as great as eleven k's?  Why this distance I have no idea - presumably tested at Cern or some such?  Can't remember where I read this.  So I'm not speaking with authority.  I've just read wiki on this and it seems that there is some considerable effort spent in disproving the non-local effect. 

Here's the thing.  Assume a great big toroid.  Link each part of it with rows and rows of black and white dots so that they connect in really structured strings.  Call those dots magnetic dipolar taychons, with a velocity of 2c.  Call those strings energy levels.  As energy levels it is reasonable to assume they'll influence both particles.  At 2c it will appear to be instantaneous.

« Last Edit: 01/06/2009 04:44:01 by witsend »

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #60 on: 31/05/2009 18:39:02 »
witsend: From way back in this thread:
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It is an entire misconception to assume that science is determined by anything other than sound experimental evidence.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Science attempts to arrive at a set of rules which will successfully predict what will happen under circumstances which have not been 'tested' yet. That's the whole point of having Science at all.
There is a very sound basic principle involving Energy considerations which says that you can't 'get more energy out' of a system than you put into it. There are Thermodynamic reasons for believing this and for expecting it to apply everywhere.
Your system seems to run counter to this very basic idea. To say that your machine can work, you are implying that Energy is not relevant to your machine. Experience tells us that everything involves Energy. Can you suggest a repeatable experiment which tells us otherwise?  You are misunderstanding what Science is all about if you say it is unscientific to dismiss an idea because it runs counter to past experience. If we followed every line of enquiry just because it takes someone's fancy then we would not have progressed at all. We wouldn't be allowed to use a single 'formula' because that would imply that we could predict and outcome.
You carefully avoid using the quantity 'Energy' in your arguments and stick to Current / Charge and Emf which are both vector quantities and can be transformed (independently) any way you want. It is only when you start to calculate / measure the 'dot' product of  two quantities that you can assess what is happening to the Energy / Power.

Why should Science be determined by "popular vote"? If everyone in the world voted that this lump of lead should travel upwards, not downwards, when I let it go, it would still fall to the ground. The whole point of Science is that it tries to get closer to 'reality' than people's votes and beliefs. The only 'beliefs' in true Science are based on experience. That last para of yours reads as little more than pique, to be honest.
But all you have to do is to show us all a working model and we WILL believe you.
« Last Edit: 31/05/2009 18:42:26 by sophiecentaur »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #61 on: 31/05/2009 19:20:15 »

'Why should Science be determined by "popular vote"?'

Sophicentuar

Indeed why should it?  I tend to agree with you.

'But all you have to do is to show us all a working model and we WILL believe you.'

Thanks for that. 
« Last Edit: 04/06/2009 18:41:43 by witsend »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #62 on: 01/06/2009 08:25:35 »
sophicentuar, I didn't really answer your post.  I'm not sure if we're on the same page.  I realise that the claim is not only confrontational but that it offends all kinds of laws.  This I know.  The point is that it's not a trivial claim.  As I've written - it sort of goes to the gullet of all know scientific paradigms, especially as this relates to the second law of thermodynamics.

I'm really just a layman with a really sketchy knowledge of anything at all - let alone physics. But I sort of stumbled on a few things in science that I tried to answer - in my own, may I repeat this, amateurish way.  I've been airing those views, rather liberally and although braced for it, have not, thus far, been 'attacked' except in so far as the over unity claim seems to also have a presumptive claim to perpetual motion. I have no idea if this has been answered or, if 'pro tem' it is just put on hold.   

I read your profile and see that you are, yourself, a physicist.  I have claimed in my post that Nuclear energy exceeds unity.  I've only referenced this from the rather restricted reading material that I can get that speaks to laymen.  Can you please tell me if this is correct or not.  I've looked up Wiki and although there's intimations of this - it is never expressly referenced.

I'd be very grateful for your help in clarifying this - if you've got the time.  Or is there anyone, Vern - someone?  who can explain this?
« Last Edit: 01/06/2009 09:09:58 by witsend »

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #63 on: 01/06/2009 13:00:29 »
It strikes me that, if you appear to have extracted some energy out of your battery 'for free' then, as you have a record of the amount of energy 'put into' and 'taken out of' the battery, there must be some other change within the resistor or elsewhere which has yielded some.
Does this effect occur for different types of resistor (I mean carbon, wire, metal film etc.) and is the the same amount? I would be much more prepared to look at your results in terms of some other changes within the load which might produce some energy than looking for this brand new mechanism. You see, this mechanism would surely be showing itself in all sorts of other places - not just in your experiment. Its effect would have to be zero in all other situations where there have been extensive and accurate measurements of  energy in / energy out, else why hasn't it been discovered? After all, the circuit you use is very much like parts of many switching circuits. I'm sure that someone who found their battery didn't run down would pick up on it pretty quickly! Did you, for instance, ever discharge your battery into a normal load and establish exactly how much energy was left in it after your experiment? Finding its capacity, in this way, before and after your experiment, might reveal a difference.
You would also have to examine the resistor before and after the experiment and also look at the long term effects on the battery. How many times have you gone through the cycle? What proportion of the battery capacity have you apparently got out by this means?

There seems to have been some confusion about the implications of traveling at 2c. At 2c the energy is not infinite - from the Lorentz equation. It is only at exactly c that the energy is infinite. Actually 'getting past' c is the only problem. Tachyons could find it just as difficult to slow down as we could to speed up.
The Cherenkov radiation thing is a complete red herring as it only involves particles whose speed is greater than the wave velocity of light in the substance they hit - which is less than c.

Why does Nuclear Energy 'exceed unity' any more than Chemical energy? The energy you get out is consistent with the Mass Defect - but I assume you take E = mcsquared into account. What exactly were you getting at?

You must not be offended by skepticism, nor must you attribute it just to "not invented here". You have to apply Occam's Razor to any ideas and chop out what isn't necessary for the explanation. So far, you haven't necessarily eliminated 'known' mechanisms. Dark Matter has only  been proposed after years and years of striving to explain the situation without it!

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #64 on: 01/06/2009 13:44:47 »
sophiecentaur - I had no idea that 2c could represent infinite energy.  Am not sure what this means. Can't quite get my head around it.

The energy was calculated as per the test.  Not an idle claim.  Many accreditors.  And many circuit variations but all, admitedly testing temperature rise dissipated.  We haven't measured any other type of dissipated energy - motion, signals, whatever.  If you consider it - this type of switching circuit is not usually designed for generating heat.  As a rule, applications are hand operated drills, whatever.  The 'heat' is a nuisance and dissipated over heat sinks.

Does this effect occur for different types  of resistor (I mean carbon, wire, metal film etc.) and is the the same amount?

This I don't know.  We used resisters to maximise inductance.  The only carbon resistors used were to measure current flow.  Not sure what a metal film resistor is.  But take it that the answer is no.  The object was always to throw as much inductance at the circuit as possible.  We also wound our own resistors when testing ac supply sources. 

'Did you, for instance, ever discharge your battery into a normal load and establish exactly how much energy was left in it after your experiment?'

Yes.  This was done extensively.  BP called for that test.  Vagaries excepted, battery draw down rate is consistent with measurements across the shunt.

'You would also have to examine the resistor before and after the experiment and also look at the long term effects on the battery. How many times have you gone through the cycle? What proportion of the battery capacity have you apparently got out by this means?'

These tests and variations were done over a period of 4 years - always repeated.  I eventually published the test in a technical journal.  If you look under my name on the web you'll find an article on it.  I cannot stress enough how exhaustively this was managed.  Nor do I want to elaborate on the difficulties in getting academic evaluation.  Two have been involved but are anxious to keep their names disassociated.

'The Cherenkov radiation thing is a complete red herring as it only involves particles whose speed is greater than the wave velocity of light in the substance they hit - which is less than c.'

Vern and I both realise this.

'Why does Nuclear Energy 'exceed unity' any more than Chemical energy? The energy you get out is consistent with the Mass Defect - but I assume you take E = mcsquared into account. What exactly were you getting at?'

I understood, probably erroneously, that nuclear energy in fact defeated the second law and only conserved charge.  Is this emphatically wrong?

You must not be offended by skepticism, nor must you attribute it just to "not invented here". You have to apply Occam's Razor to any ideas and chop out what isn't necessary for the explanation. So far, you haven't necessarily eliminated 'known' mechanisms. Dark Matter has only  been proposed after years and years of striving to explain the situation without it!

I only learned of dark energy about 3 years ago.  My model was proposed approximately 10 years ago.  I was delighted to hear about this need because it seemed to fit the model.

I am only offended at skepticism when the merits of the test are ignored.  But I'm awfully grateful for this.  I'd love it if you could, perhaps work out where the error is, if possible and, obviously, time permitting.

Many thanks for this considered reply.  it all takes so much time and I know that this is something we none of us have in abundance.
« Last Edit: 01/06/2009 14:03:02 by witsend »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #65 on: 01/06/2009 13:51:09 »
By the way, battery draw down rates were done with simultaneous controls, batteries recharged and swapped so that the control battery put to the experiment and so on.  When I say it was exhaustive it really was exhaustive.  Not only on two batteries but were then required to test other types.

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #66 on: 01/06/2009 16:08:40 »
Responses in no particular order.

Most resistors you can buy are metal film, these days - a resistive film on a ceramic cylinder. Different thicknesses and spiral grooves cut to get the resistance they want. (N.B. they are inductive unless you pay extra for critical RF use.) Metal film is more stable in value and doesn't degrade.

There was a mention earlier that traveling at 2c represented infinite energy but the
1/(1-v2/c2) factor in the Lorenz formula has a singularity only at v=c.

Why wouldn't charge, momentum and mass(=energy) be conserved in any change - Nuclear, included-?

When you say "draw down rates" do you mean metered values of V and I? I was suggesting that the more reliable measure would be to measure  time to total discharge under all conditions. Also, a range of battery technologies (at least more than one?) would be good. How many mAh were needed to recharge the battery after your exercise? Batteries are weird things with odd chemistry and odd charge / PD characteristics

I can't see why one would expect any different results between one non-reactive load and another (heaters, motors, lamps). Electricity is fairly omnivorous stuff and is normally thought of as being unable to distinguish one load from another as long as the impedances are the same. The electrons on the battery plates will only know about the local potential, for instance. If, as you say, the load inductance is the factor, then you could put any inductance you like in series (or parallel) - there's always some combination to give the same result. I must say, the value of inductance of a wound resistor is in the region of nH, which is an extremely low reactance at the low frequency you were using. I refer to the switching times of the MOSfet.

I am having a problem with some of what you write in your paper- interchanging the words Energy and Field. They are not the same beast, are they? The Energy relates to the Integral (work done) as you take a Unit (charge, mass ,current) through a Field change. The existence of a field (like the Earth's gravitational field) says nothing of the energy involved unless you make a change (like changing the height of an object above ground or changing the field of an electromagnet by changing the current).

I still don't see how this effect, if it is as startling (17 times!!) as the Pretoria Newspaper article claims, cannot have shown up on almost every lab bench and in every switch mode power supply and inverter that's ever been built. For the PSUs in Space vehicles, for instance, the designers have been trying to maximise  conversion efficiency. How can they not have stumbled on the effect of small bit of inductance in the load?
The effect of back emf when switching a current fast as been used for years in TV CRT drivers which use the fast flyback waveform from the line scan circuit to produce a high voltage for the EHT  - but this doesn't involve any gain in energy - it's just a convenient way to get a high potential.

Indeed, how did YOU come across it? Did you predict it and then find those results or was it a chance result that caught your attention? How did a (you must admit) whacky sounding theory take you down the avenue of MOSfets and curly resistors?
 

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #67 on: 01/06/2009 17:09:23 »
Hi sophiecentaur,  You ask so many questions - I can't keep them all in my head.  I'll start with your last first. 

Indeed, how did YOU come across it? Did you predict it and then find those results or was it a chance result that caught your attention? How did a (you must admit) whacky sounding theory take you down the avenue of MOSfets and curly resistors?I'm

I'm intrigued with your emphasis 'YOU'.  Certainly NOT a chance result.  I'd never in my life dealt with ciruits.  All I knew of electricity was from Dyson's book on conceptual physics.  I had to go on an extensive learning curve, ably assisted by Brian Buckley and the late Bernard Bulak (friends, both electrical technicians).  I had shown my model to a couple of academic physicists who - like you, were largely amused.  I'm looking back a decade now.  It was put to me that if I had a model, then I should be able to make a prediction.  Well.  I'd never been able to get my mind around the thought that electricity comprised a 'flow of electrons' for reasons which I'll gladly explain but will simply copy a previous post, if that's allowed. 

My own take was that current flow comprised the flow of magnetic fields, as indicated in that paper.  Since my fields had to return to the source 'in tact' I had a shrewed idea that I could exceed those energy constraints.  I also assumed that this would be proof enough.  I was advised, by them, that if I indeed exceeded unity then I could claim anything I liked.  I took them at their word.  The down side was that when the test was up and ready for demonstration, both of these gentlemen advised me that the would not evaluate the performance of 'a machine'.  I think I'm quoting this correctly. Their names, for what it's worth are Professor Violie and a Professor Claymans (not sure that I've spelled this correctly).  I think Claymans has now retired. I think they're both theoretical physicists but I'm open to correction.

So, since then, I've been 'all dressed up but nowhere to go' so to speak.  Their reaction and varying forms of this was all that I could solicit from academics.  Industry is different.  They looked more closedly.  But nobody can progress this until the paper has been properly reviewed and the IET wont forward the paper for review.  Which I find extraordinary.  The more so as I have spoken to many academic electrical engineers who know that paper and the vast majority have advised me to try and get this to a reviewed journal. 

« Last Edit: 01/06/2009 18:21:33 by witsend »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #68 on: 01/06/2009 17:31:18 »
Regarding your comments on batteries.  The standard test was to run the experiment and a control simultaneously - the control comprising a resistor in series with the battery supply source.  The Ohms value of the control resistor was varied either to match the measured current flow from the test or to match the temperature rise of the test (this latter detailed in the paper).  Either way - there is clear evidence of gain.  When the battery on the control was depleted then both batteries disconnected, recharged and swapped to repeat the test, but with the control battery to the experiment and vice versa.  All resistors with equivalent mass in the control and the experiment.

Then we progressed to different types of batteries, different ampere hours, but essentially confined to lead acid batteries.  That was the test required by BP. 

I have never even thought about infinite energy.  I wouldn't understand it any any context at all.

Draw down rates - I do mean to describe the rate that current flows from the supply source.  VI

I only mean to explain that the tests have been confined to generating heat.  I have never worked with motors.  It may very well give the same benefit.  I just don't know.

I can't explain why this isn't believed.  I knew it would be contentious.  But ten years after the event I am still trying to persuade people to test it for themselves.  Clearly you scientists are not that happy about challenging thermodynamic laws.  And add to that a total retake on current flow.  I think it's probably understandable that you're all a little sceptical.  But add all that to a mere layman coming forward with such extraordinary nonsense - and the justification for ignoring the test could be argued. 

My own take is that science is only determined by experimental evidence and theory must, therefore, give way to fact.

« Last Edit: 01/06/2009 17:52:08 by witsend »

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #69 on: 01/06/2009 21:55:41 »
My only response to your last statement is that I can't be sure what the actual 'fact' is. That is always the problem with   phenomena which are thought to be  new.
What have you actually observed and what was special about your setup that made it behave so differently from a million other such circuits?
There are so many circuits that involve switches, inductors and diodes. I think you could look at the conventional behaviour of the circuit and see where you part company.
I don't think you can dismiss the electron flow theory easily. Electrons can be detected streaming off a cathode and demonstrate mass and charge. Your magnetic fields would surely exhibit a wave nature (very long wavelengths?)
I will watch this space with interest!

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #70 on: 02/06/2009 05:27:50 »
Sophicentaur, This was posted under 'new theories' thread and may explain my problems with conventional explanation of current flow.  I've edited it marginally.

'Wiki definition of current flow requires 'free floating electrons'.  Given that these electrons that come from - somewhere? - also somehow 'attach' to a wire or any such conductive circuit components then can someone please explain this scenario.  Take your average lead acid battery as a DC power supply.  If these electrons 'travel' where do they go once they've reached the opposite terminal?  Through the battery courtesy the 'pump action' provided by the battery?

Now Wiki explains that batteries, fortunately, have 'free floating protons'.  This gets ever more interesting.  Where do these 'free floating protons come from?  Then.  The electrons presumably need to travel through the battery.  Presumably also they do this by attaching to the protons, somehow?  But, if the electrons attach to the protons during their journey through the battery - then we get simple hydrogen atoms.  The battery would then, theoretically, become a repository of pure hydrogen or subtle variations of this, each state - deuterium - tritium - becoming progressively more explosive than the last.

If the quantum of electrons on the wire or in the circuitry, exceeds the number of free floating protons - then we have a problem with that 'cluster' of electrons that cannot get past the terminal.

If by some happy accident the number of 'free floating' electrons precisely equals the number of 'free floating' protons then 'attachment' would result not in a reduction in potential difference but in an increase.  This is because hydrogen - apart from being highly combustible in any condition - is also a negatively ionised atom.  Therefore one would think that the increased ionisation would also result in an increase in the potential difference measured across the battery.  It would not result in a decrease.  What then accounts for the decrease is the actual measured result of current flow?

If, on the other hand - given that these innate logical contradictions were somehow answered by some force not yet incorporated in conventional explanations of current flow - but yet requires the flow of electrons - then the speed at which the electrons again 'detach' from the structure of those protons - would in no way equal the rate at which current is measured to flow through circuitry.

Then, assuming that the potential difference is reduced, notwithstanding the increase to potential difference courtesy the ionised state of these hydrogen atoms, and over time the battery indeed becomes flat - we recharge it - how?  By adding more 'free floating electrons' or 'free floating protons / or possibly both?

So I put it to you that the 'flow of electrons' is logically inconsistent with the known properties of current flow. Here's the thing.  The 'flow of electrons' was proposed as an enabling image - never a fact.  That it then became incorporated into classical definition as 'a fact' is a sad reflection on the reluctance of scientists to grapple with contradictory evidence.  Rather do they just accept all such explanations, the more obtuse the explanation, the more likely it is to be accepted.  It hearkens to the story of the king's invisible cloak. At some point someone must point out the obvious.'

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #71 on: 02/06/2009 06:34:01 »
'What have you actually observed and what was special about your setup that made it behave so differently from a million other such circuits?'
From sophiecentaur

Nothing.  Other than the result was both anticipated and measured.  I have spoken to so many engineers. There are those who flatly dismiss the evidence, provided always that they do not see the demonstration.  Among those that have witnessed or replicated I've had acknowledgement, admittedly rare, that they had seen such results in their past on various circuits, but dismissed them as anomalies.

I'm reasonably certain that shunt circuits do enable overunity results.  But their applications are not intended as energy savers so no-one looks for a gain.  By the way, gains are not invariably evident.  It depends on optimising the frequency - usually, as mentioned, when the waveform first goes into oscillation.  But, just as it can result in a gain, there are frequencies that result in a loss.  One needs that switch to find the optimum frequency.

I also know that there's a fringe group of scientists, increasing in number, who claim over unity.  I believe they base their observations on experimental evidence but am not sure that any of them actually predicted or anticipated this.  But I do know that they're caught on the 'horns of a dillemma' to patent? - disclose? - explain?.  Each phase of this problem sharpens those horns. 

Fortunately I'm only really interested in the model and my knowledge of circuitry and electrical applications is way too sketchy to try and capitalise on it.  But it's a field waiting to be exploited.  Hopefully the electric applications will eventually be more widely used.



 
« Last Edit: 02/06/2009 11:18:31 by witsend »

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #72 on: 02/06/2009 18:33:54 »
The final test is to remove the battery and have the system run itself.
Until you have done that you have not shown that you have an "over unity" system.

Since, at that point, it will fail, I predict that this will  be a short thread.

Unfortunately his prediction was wrong, but as he says, why are you using a battery at all? Why not a capacitor?

Maybe because it won't work.
« Last Edit: 02/06/2009 18:36:47 by Madidus_Scientia »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #73 on: 02/06/2009 19:32:26 »
Why must I use a capacitor?  It works with a battery.

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #74 on: 02/06/2009 19:40:43 »
Because it would remove doubt that the energy actually just comes from the battery.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #75 on: 02/06/2009 19:56:14 »
I really don't understand this. 

'Because it would remove doubt that the energy actually just comes from the battery.'
From Madidus_Scientia

I have always assumed that the energy was coming from the battery.  Where else?  Except that we've also done experiments on ac utility supply sources with the same benefits.
« Last Edit: 02/06/2009 20:07:47 by witsend »

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #76 on: 02/06/2009 21:52:10 »
Why must I use a capacitor?  It works with a battery.
I agree with MS. If all you need is a source of emf 'to get the process going' then a charged capacitor would provide it. And it would remove any unease about the true Energy contribution from the battery source.

btw, when trying to get down to fundamental understanding of any topic, I would not recommend Wikki. The theory of current conduction through a metal involves the  idea that, in metals, the loosely bound ('outer') electrons of each metal atom are shared by the attraction of many nearby atoms. They move, as a cloud, with the application of a very small electric field. The 'solid' bit of the metal consists of an array of 'positive ion cores' which are immobile. The electrons behave like a gas, drifting through the solid. Don't forget that the average drift speed of the electrons is only a matter of mm per second - it's just that there are something like 10^23 electrons involved in each mole of the metal.

 
In a battery, the electrons which arrive from the circuit at the positive terminal will combine with protons (or ionised Hydrogen atoms). As far as I can see, the H ions are produced by action between the plate and the electrolyte. Ions move through the electrolyte because of the PD produced by the action at the plate and, at the other plate, free electrons are released by another reaction and they flow out of the negative terminal.
Your idea of forming deuterium and tritium cannot be right - you need Mev's of energy to cause that to happen.

Also, how would you define, in general terms, your "shunt circuit"? You, presumably, mean more than just two parallel components. . . ?

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #77 on: 02/06/2009 22:15:18 »
Hi sophiecentaur - so glad you're still awake.  Still reeling at Madidus_Scientia's dismay that the thread survived longer than anticipated.  What a cheek.  So glad you answered my current problem.  I'm going to have to study it though.  I can't quite get my head around it.

Regarding the capacitor - I actually don't know what this is.  I only know its used in the switching circuitry - why I don't know.  But would the use of the capacitor satisfy the need for a flow of magnetic fields as detailed?  I'm entirely out of my depth.  Is the idea to use this device instead of the battery?  If so - yet again you guys are asking for a perpetual motion machine.  Then I really do not see the point.  I do NOT have a perpetual motion machine.  But I'll look at your comments again.  Just remember.  I've got a standard circuit and measurement of energy delivered is also measured using classical analysis.  Why must I do more than this?

I've been trying to work out the difference between the mass required by nuclear energy compared to the mass required for a battery to see if I can answer that earlier question as to whether or not nuclear energy conforms to second law of thermodynamics.  But I'm struggling here. 

Thanks for answering this.  By the way - regarding infinite energy - I think I see the relevance.  It's probably to do with that post regarding zipons in the toroid - influencing particles at faster than light speed.  I only wanted to point out that - given that velocity - it's reasonable to assume the 'effect' would appear to be simultaneous.  I don't believe in infinity.  Only because I can't get my head around it.  I need boundaries - all over the place.





« Last Edit: 03/06/2009 06:04:26 by witsend »

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #78 on: 02/06/2009 22:47:39 »
Needless to say, I am looking at this from a conventional viewpoint so I have no idea of the relevance of your magnetic fields. But, unless you think that the current flowing in the load "knows" about where the driving Potential came from, I don't see how the circuit should behave any differently.

Quote
Regarding the capacitor - I actually don't know what this is.
Do you really mean you don't know what a capacitor is? You need to look at a basic circuit theory book if you don't.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #79 on: 02/06/2009 22:53:49 »
No, I really do not know what a capacitor is.  You can safely assume that there is no limit to my lack of knowledge especially as it relates to electric circuitry.  I find all electric circuits quintessentially boring.  It was just a means to an end.  My only interest is in physics.
« Last Edit: 03/06/2009 06:02:42 by witsend »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #80 on: 03/06/2009 07:24:20 »
By the way, I only proposed deuterium - tritium to allow for 'too many electrons - not enough protons'.  Not a serious option.  I just want to get that off.  I'm still battling with your explanation of current flow.  Will need to get back to this.

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #81 on: 03/06/2009 07:44:22 »
I'm still battling with your explanation of current flow.  Will need to get back to this.

It's only basics. (GCSE level)

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #82 on: 03/06/2009 07:55:42 »
I never did science.  Secondary education in Zimbabwe - private.  Nothing wrong with the standard of eduction but were given a choice of science subjects and I only did Botany and Zoology.  My interest - then - was in arts.  So am not well equipped to deal with science.  Sorry sophiecentaur.  I detect a certain irritability with this fact.  The only physics that I know, which is way too limited for my liking - is from layman's literature.  And while it gives a comprehensive 'overview' it tends to 'blur' the details.  It's the details that fascinate me.

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #83 on: 03/06/2009 15:20:33 »
OK, fair enough. But how can you then decide to invent a whole new Science Theory and expect it to be consistent with all measured facts?
Your experimental results are unexpected but I wouldn't reject them. What I have difficulty with is your explanation which is only partial. I would be far more happy with an approach which uses established models. They are, after all, pretty consistent with experience in all but really extreme circumstances.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #84 on: 03/06/2009 16:00:38 »
The first thing that strikes me is that wiki explanation is so entirely different from yours.  Presumably then 'free floating' electrons is wrong.  It is, rather the adjustment of electrons in the outer energy levels those atoms that does the trick?  At least this wouldn't entirely defy Pauli's exclusion principle.  But I still cannot understand what happens when the battery is recharged?

If the electrons somehow decay into photons at the resistor - then perhaps it can be reasoned that more electrons are re-introduced into that system when the battery is recharged.  That could fit - provided that there's an obvious limitless source of such electrons from the recharger.  And they would literally have to leave the one recharge system to enter into the battery.  The regarcher and rechargee?  The terms get confusing.  Anyway, that's another problem.  Do the electrons physically peel away from the recharger? 

And assuming that there are these 'spare electrons' where do they come from?  The one's initially in the circuit I can almost buy.  But those that are re-introduced to the system?  Is that 'flow of electrons from the utility supply?  Then, correctly one should be able to account for the amount of electrons that are distributed from any single supply source because these are depleted at the various loads connected to that supply system.  This means that the actual motion of the generator is, in fact, generating an extraordinary amount of electrons from somewhere that get wiped out when they get used up at their various work stations.  Is this known to be the fact?




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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #85 on: 03/06/2009 16:16:07 »
Regarding my education or lack of it - I have a tool that I use which I call patterns.  I have no idea how to explain this.  I suppose it's a kind of geometry.  But that would probably be giving it way too earnest a lable.  What is surprising to me is that it seems to be enough to forge quite a deep understanding of physics.  Certainly I am able to marry my own understanding precisely with known physics.  That was my litmus test.  If it didn't fit then it was wrong.  What may be of interest is that by using this 'tool' I was able to precisely reconcile the mass/size ratio of the proton to the electron.  That's why I think my idea of composite particles may just be correct.  And why I tend to rely on this 'tool'.  It's my substitute for maths. 

But I'm not out to convert anyone to my reasoning.  To quote Vern, I only want to share what little I know and, hopefully, learn in the process.

I would add that my own explanation of current flow definitely passes the Occam's razor test more than conventional explanations.  And it provides for that extra energy.  But I assure you sophicentaur, I am not prepared to defend it as I really do not know enough about anything to do so.  I'm not a specialist, except in my own strange field of endeavour.  And then I'm truly a specialist in as much as I'm the only one who appears to understand it.   
« Last Edit: 04/06/2009 06:28:34 by witsend »

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #86 on: 03/06/2009 16:44:20 »

I would add that my own explanation of current flow definitely passes the Occam's razor test more than conventional explanations.    

As you don't seem to understand the conventional explanation, then I don't see how you are in a position to apply Occam's Razor to it.
Does your model explain Cathode rays then?

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #87 on: 03/06/2009 16:52:04 »
No.  I'v been giggling again.  I don't really know how to tell you this but I have no idea how they work.  Sorry sophiecentaur.  I'm hopelessly underqualified.  I did warn you.

My field model is probably the only thing that I've ever done in my life that was truly intellectually challenging.  Have you read it?  It's the best I can do. 
« Last Edit: 03/06/2009 16:57:08 by witsend »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #88 on: 03/06/2009 17:02:21 »
By the way, I think it may pass the Occam's razor test becasue it's so very simple.  Have you read that exercise?  I'm adding to this because I think I may be cluttering these posts.  I cannot tell you how grateful I am for your explanation of current.  It doesn't give me all the answers, but that's only because I obviously do not understand it fully.  But I have so often asked for an explanation of conventional understanding of this, and you are the very first person who's provided it.  So many thanks for that.  I do apologise for sounding frivolous.  I know that all these posts take up an inordinate amount of time. 

« Last Edit: 03/06/2009 17:13:22 by witsend »

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #89 on: 03/06/2009 18:27:23 »
Sophicentaur.  I thought you were just checking how little I knew.  I've just realised the relevance of cathode rays tubes?  It's because electrons stream off them and we use them for televisions.  This is known, I mean that electrons are definitely the medium that enables the picture.  This is really interesting.  Does one apply a current through the tube and this then liberates the electrons that forms the picture?  In other words, is this proof of electrons being the medium that conducts current

Actually, what I really want to ask is this.  Do electrons form the picture or do the electrons first become photons?  My own model does allow electrons to form photons but they can't reconstitute as electrons.  Presumably these cathode ray tubes don't exhaust their electron quotient.  Or do they?

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #90 on: 03/06/2009 18:58:01 »
Electrons emerge from the (usually hot) cathode and are accelerated towards the screen where they collide with phosphors and light is emitted. Electrons can't suddenly change into photons, can they? How could charge be conserved?
If you don't know about things a basic as this then how can you possibly claim to have developed a model for something as complicated as current flow?
You just cannot expect to explain a phenomenon which has been hard to explain in conventional terms with a brand new germ of an idea without first including and explaining all present phenomena which are already very adequately and consistently explained.
Remember that any new theory has either to include an explanation of all phenomena or else it must explain why it should only apply in one specific circumstance and have zero effect in all other situations.
Science may appear tiresome but we would be nowhere if we had chased every wild goose that came along as we aim at greater understanding.

And what, exactly, do you mean by a "Shunt Circuit"? This is a very relevant question because half of the circuits (or sub-circuits) ever devised are 'shunt' in the conventional sense of the term. We should expect to find your effect all over the place. Yes, I know you say the circumstances are special but, without a deep understanding of what was going on, how did you arrive at your particular parameter values? Audio circuits from the year dot have been subjected to extensive and detailed frequency sweeps and analysis so your 'special conditions would keep showing up as anomalies / imperfections in frequency response.

 I have to conclude that, somewhere, there must be a flaw in your methodology which has lead you to an erroneous conclusion. You have then tried to explain it in terms of a new mystic system which you, by your own admission, have not described in detail - certainly not in any quantitative way.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #91 on: 03/06/2009 19:42:47 »
Electrons emerge from the (usually hot) cathode and are accelerated towards the screen where they collide with phosphors and light is emitted.
Do electrons decay in that interaction? Is light emitted by the phosphors?  And what then happens to the elecrtons?  Do they also decay or are they somehow returned to the cathode ray tube?

Electrons can't suddenly change into photons, can they? How could charge be conserved?
I never meant to suggest that they become photons from some whimsical event.  I am referring to the fact that when electrons decay in certain hydrogen ions or I think also uranium (may not be right here) - in any event, in certain atoms that are essentially ionised or known to be radioactive, then it is proposed that two photons can be emitted.  In other words the electron can decay into two photons.
 
If you don't know about things a basic as this then how can you possibly claim to have developed a model for something as complicated as current flow?

You're right.  If this is how it irritates you, can you imagine how it antagonises academics?  I am only grateful that there are some very, very few who even try to evaluate that model. I suppose, if there's any justification, the model does - at its least - give a different perspective on things.  Or maybe it just amuses them.  Either way, no-one is obliged to acknowledge it in any way.   

You just cannot expect to explain a phenomenon which has been hard to explain in conventional terms with a brand new germ of an idea without first including and explaining all present phenomena which are already very adequately and consistently explained.

Sophiecentaur, have you ever considered that - had I been trained in conventional physics, the liklihood would have been very slim to have come up with new insights.  It had to come from an outsider. 

Remember that any new theory has either to include an explanation of all phenomena or else it must explain why it should only apply in one specific circumstance and have zero effect in all other situations.

I don't think I've done badly here.  It explains the EPR paradox, size/mass ratio of the proton to the electron, magnet on magnet interactions, current flow, gravity, dark force, dark energy, and on and on.  The paper details the scope.  I've got an idea that you've never read the field model.  You've possibly only read the paper submitted to the IET.

Science may appear tiresome but we would be nowhere if we had chased every wild goose that came along as we aim at greater understanding.


I agree. 

And what, exactly, do you mean by a "Shunt Circuit"? This is a very relevant question because half of the circuits (or sub-circuits) ever devised are 'shunt' in the conventional sense of the term. We should expect to find your effect all over the place. Yes, I know you say the circumstances are special but, without a deep understanding of what was going on, how did you arrive at your particular parameter values? Audio circuits from the year dot have been subjected to extensive and detailed frequency sweeps and analysis so your 'special conditions would keep showing up as anomalies / imperfections in frequency response.

I cannot explain this. 

I have to conclude that, somewhere, there must be a flaw in your methodology which has lead you to an erroneous conclusion. You have then tried to explain it in terms of a new mystic system which you, by your own admission, have not described in detail - certainly not in any quantitative way.

On the basis of pure probability this is unarguable.



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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #92 on: 04/06/2009 00:28:42 »
Your ideas all seem to be totally qualitative. Your so-called explanations of EPR paradox etc. are not backed up with figures. They are just arm waving. There is no point in my giving you a course in 'proper' physics. Any book cn do that for you and with more and better resources. I have a feeling you would rather be able to claim ignorance of the more difficult points of conventional Science because that avoids your having to reconcile it with your own ideas.
You are in a win win situation if you neither have to understand what the rest of Science consists of nor back up your theory in detail. You never did relate your ideas quantitatively to your results and that is essential in serious Science.
The circuit experiment of yours is clearly not supported by serious reasoning as you are not prepared to answer some of the very reasonable and simple questions I have asked.
I am afraid that we will have to call it a day- until you do some more homework and get yourself into a position where you actually know some conventional Science. If you are smart enough to come up with a seriously plausible theory of your own then you are smart enough to do that.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #93 on: 04/06/2009 05:02:02 »
Sophiecentaur,  this is getting awfully repetitive.  I have a simple question.  Have you even read my field model?  On that same link?  NOT the IET paper as that only tries to explain current flow in terms of the model.  The actual model is fully described on that same link.  Written in white on a blue background.   This same model is also described in a PDF file at the end of that very long blog.  The PDF file has the advantage of a few more diagrams.  It's easier on the eye because its standard black print on a white background.  It also has more diagrams in it.  This field model excercise reconciles the size/mass ratio of the proton to the electron.  It attributes the 'god particle' with the property of mass, charge and velocity,  It determines the composites of that particle which would result in OBSERVED properties of known particles.  It goes much further than that because it proposes how a magnetic field is structured and what structures it.

In conventional physics there are many unanswered questions. May I list some.  The EPR effect, many questions related to superluminal communication, magnet on magnet interactions, an understanding of gravity and many questions related to dark matter and dark energy.  I have proposed that the existence of this particle goes some considerable way to explaining these and about twenty unanswered imponderables.  I've described it as variation of a string theory.  The difference is that only a very few people understand string theories.  And they are also string theorists.  Anyone can understand mine.

About the quality of the writing - here you have every reason to complain.  It's words - not math.  But if you want to know why I ever attempted it - it's precisely because I took up Pauli and Einstein's challenge that physics should be explicable with the use of simple concepts.  Pauli went further.  He said that if it's not understandable to your average high school student then it's probably wrong. 

And the electric circuit - albeit simple - is excessively boring to argue in any context at all.  Just look at the numbers in that test and compare this to classical electrodynamic requirement.  One or other is wrong or perhaps quantum physics does not give the whole answer. 

This entire exercise has taken me ten years to 'bring it to the table' so to speak. I chose this forum because, among the many that I had looked at, the level of readership here seems superior to others that I've seen.  I welcome any critical denial of the concepts themselves.

And to ask me to understand conventional terms in electric current theory - I simply cannot.  It defeats me because I find it to be inherently contradictory.  Just as you are irritated at my lack of knowledge of it, I am supremely irritated at its foundational concepts. If I could reconcile these then I'd possibly get more interest.

As I've written in my paper, the electromagnetic interaction is simply not evident in a magnet on magnet interaction.  No-one to this day, has found an electric field when one magnet interacts with another.  That's huge. 

       
« Last Edit: 04/06/2009 07:07:46 by witsend »

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #94 on: 04/06/2009 08:44:59 »
What does your (pen)ultimate sentence mean?

If you can't comment about and won't learn conventional Science because it "annoys" you then you aren't really in a position to reject it validly. Just because you don't like it is no reason at all.

I really don't see why I or anyone else should trudge through your paper, when I have increasing doubts about your ability to understand a well established system which you appear to reject out of hand.  What guarantee have I that it will make any more sense than the sentence I refer to, above? You seem to suggest that you have described, in one document, a complete new model. Amazing.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #95 on: 04/06/2009 09:01:10 »
Hi Sophiecentaur.  You challenge me on absolutely every level.  It's what I hoped for from this forum.  But I cant win this argument if I'm first criticised for not arguing the whole thing, and then for arguing it.

But I hear you.  There's no guarantee that you'll get anything out of it, other than a headache.  I feel shy that the exercise is so clumsily explained.  But I've taken my courage in both hands and 'put it out there'.  I hope you'll read it because I've got a shrewd idea that you would probably understand it.

But I'm braced for attack in the unlikely event that you do.

My hope, for what it's worth is that it's eventually read by a real scholar.  It needs to be whipped into better shape and published.  If I'm ever included in such an exercise, then that would be the ultimate prize.  But you see for yourself.  It's out there.  So anyone can do with it anything that they please. And though clumsily explained there are some seminal ideas there.

 

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #96 on: 04/06/2009 09:05:44 »
I just looked through your paper. It is no more than a list of assertions with no supporting, quantitative, evidence and no cohesion. I wish I had looked at it before and not at your "shunt circuit" paper. It is total non-Science from beginning to end.
The paper neither explains  nor resolves anything; it is just a technical name-dropping exercise.
Read a few serious publications and you will find reasoned argument, maths and measurements; your paper has none of these.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #97 on: 04/06/2009 09:09:35 »
I didn't expect and attack before you've read it.  I take comfort that you've only 'scanned it'.  I have never 'dropped names'.  I pride myself of always admitting to what I do not know.  But by the same token I believe I can take pride in what I do know.

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witsend

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #98 on: 04/06/2009 09:14:37 »
Deleted
« Last Edit: 04/06/2009 18:44:39 by witsend »

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lyner

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Re: a circuit that produces overunity results.
« Reply #99 on: 04/06/2009 09:48:17 »
Well, if you don't like scrutiny, you shouldn't invite it, should you?
What is your paper but a list of assertions? Where is there any reasoned argument, backed up by evidence? I didn't have to read every word to spot the lack of Maths and Data, which are the basis of all good Science. In a paper which claims to have such a significant message, I would expect lots and lots of both.
If this is too much for you, I'll just stop posting here.