An essay in futility, too long to read :)

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Offline yor_on

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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1750 on: 09/03/2016 16:33:46 »
If you assume the universe to have some sort of boundaries, a accelerating expansion must cost it. The 'energy' needed for it has to be taken from somewhere, won't you agree? If you alternatively ignore boundaries, define the universe as limitless, then? What is a 'cost'?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1751 on: 09/03/2016 16:36:24 »
The problem does not become any easier assuming that we can 'lend' from something else, for example assuming that the universe is a 'emergence', or a 'fault' in something else. Because logically you only move the question one step further, into that realm from where 'our universe' then might come. The question will still be there.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1752 on: 09/03/2016 16:42:05 »
Time only moves one way, the next three 'dimensions' we measure, each one, have two 'endpoints, and it doesn't matter from what direction you measure, any way is as good as the other.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1753 on: 09/03/2016 16:52:31 »
Then there also is the truth that in a SpaceTime universe, defined as a whole continuum, there will be no way of return. It doesn't matter if you define boundaries or not, time moves, and you move with it.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1754 on: 09/03/2016 16:56:12 »
presuming that you can return, to a same 'point' is time travel, which then also must presume that you should be able to be with yourself ad infinitum. That's a very simple logic, and some people go a long way trying to avoid accepting it :) keeping 'time travels' at the same time as invoking some cosmic censorship disallowing this from happening.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1755 on: 09/03/2016 16:57:12 »
The reason they need to do so is simple. We have no proofs of time travels.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1756 on: 09/03/2016 16:58:36 »
Unless we refer to the one pointing from birth to death. That one is proved by each one of us.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1757 on: 09/03/2016 17:31:37 »
In fact, a universe allowing time travels is a universe not only bifurcating (splitting) into 'new ones' due to probabilities, but now also due to 'time travels'
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1758 on: 09/03/2016 17:33:38 »
In a way I like it. It becomes very convoluted though. And when you consider that it should(?) take 'energy' to create it, it also becomes somewhat of a headache.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1759 on: 09/03/2016 17:47:59 »
With a static universe one could assume that everything exist, even 'time travels'. That as it is in one way similar to a 'magical universe', in that everything 'coexist'. The thing 'moving' would then be ones local arrow, but we still need to invoke a cosmic censorship in that we only see 'our' universe. It's a possibility, and in one way you then might be able to define 'energy' as times transformations, but what about traveling back in time?Then again, it's rather convoluted, is it not?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1760 on: 09/03/2016 17:56:43 »
Alternatively all of you existing exist as you are now due to my choices, them bifurcating everything in this universe to fit.
How's that for a headache :)

And the same goes for you naturally, I will then exist in some manner related to what choices you make. Although I can't be sure who of 'you' I'm referring to here, can I? As the same must go for me. At the very least though, it's a very local solution to what a universe might be :)
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1761 on: 09/03/2016 18:39:41 »
Why I don't find it to fit is that I prefer a solution in where only one 'reality' falls out, the one with the highest probability overall, doesn't mean that some of the things happening in it can't have a very low probability. In such a reality you can't assume a person to be able to 'time travel' to meet himself. You need one where there are several 'universes' coexisting as it must 'bifurcate' at that point. The true problem with assuming this person meeting himself though is that it then will exist at least one universe in where time travel will be a provable fact. But, as it's not our universe :) why then should it be any other? You have to start from what you can prove, not from what you might find preferable.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1762 on: 09/03/2016 18:53:37 »
And finally, there's one more problem with it. Although that depends on if you believe in 'free will' versus if you believe in predestination? A universe in where I go back to meet myself, can be seen as me creating something never before existing, from the bifurcation it should lead to. In a 'static predestined universe' this argument loses its coherence, as it all must have been 'predestined' any way. You can prove anything using predestination it seems :) logic won't help you there.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1763 on: 09/03/2016 19:06:55 »
That means that the way I think of a static universe should be one without time travel. As long as I expect free will to exist, and uncertainty. Turn it around and you will have to throw uncertainty away. With everything bifurcating ad infinitum (many worlds) you can keep uncertainty as an effect of us only seeing one of those ' reality's ' though, but as it very fast becomes infinitely convoluted, and as there is no way to give a priority to anything in such a universe, that I see, I find it hard to accept.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1764 on: 10/03/2016 13:24:16 »
The problem with a world in where both high probabilities, as well as low, falls out it's not a static reality's problem only. It's everyone's problem as I think. We live in a world where you can win at lotto for example, although the probability for just you to do so should be rather low. On the other tentacle, someone has to win, at some time. If you think of entropy then there is a possibility of entropy going 'backwards' locally, although 'globally' over a universe, it has only one direction. The same can't be said about 'time' though.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1765 on: 10/03/2016 13:26:09 »
Time, as far as I know, has only one direction. When you find it 'slowing' somewhere else, it's because you compare that 'clock' to your own wristwatch. And your wristwatch never change its time, eh, time rate :).
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1766 on: 10/03/2016 13:36:30 »
I prefer then one universe, created from a infinite ocean of probabilities, in where, if we want it to fit where we are, must allow for all possibilities. Those with a very low probability as well as those with a very high. 'Many worlds' doesn't answer why we get this blend, as far as I know, and I have problems with it too :). You might assume that somewhere there is a perfect universe though, where only the highest ranking probabilities falls out, you could alternatively assume that 'Machs universe/principle' in some way is applicable here too, so that even though we only observe our universe the 'principle' allows for some sort of 'communication/interactions' with other universes, somehow creating this mix of probabilities.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1767 on: 10/03/2016 13:39:22 »
The probability of something builds on statistics, not on a clever algorithm. First you take the statistics, then you create the algorithm, in a similar way to me throwing away the idea of a propagation, keeping the constant.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1768 on: 11/03/2016 14:54:54 »
One has to remember that this are only thoughts, and sometimes quite confused :) Take for example Newtons bucket. One idea of it, very simplified (which I tend to like) is that even in a space without proper mass, a perfect vacuum, if you have a rope with two stones that you start to spin (don't ask me how you will do it) the rope will stretch as it spins. In Mach universe the rope shouldn't stretch as there is nothing to 'attract' it, no matter available. In SR it stretches too, as the rope with buckets spin around a 'center', and this spin represent a acceleration in Newtonian, as well as in, SR terms. But in Mach universe it doesn't. What Einstein final thoughts on this became was a mix of both Newtons, as well as Mach ideas though. Far away stars do attract, but something spinning around its axis is constantly breaking its path (geodesics), and so must become a acceleration. But then again, does it it drag 'space' around it too? It seems it does, it's called 'framedragging'. But now we have some confusion of mine, a acceleration must expend energy? So will this rope finally stop spinning? in this empty universe? It should, shouldn't it? it doesn't follow a geodesic.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1769 on: 11/03/2016 15:06:40 »
Now the question become, due to what does it stop spinning? A perfect vacuum? And if it doesn't then?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1770 on: 11/03/2016 15:14:15 »
I wrote ' 'Many worlds' doesn't answer why we get this blend, as far as I know, and I have problems with it too :). You might assume that somewhere there is a perfect universe though, where only the highest ranking probabilities falls out, you could alternatively assume that 'Machs universe/principle' in some way is applicable here too, so that even though we only observe our universe the 'principle' allows for some sort of 'communication/interactions' with other universes, somehow creating this mix of probabilities.'

At first sight this might sound slightly slow of me, but to me it has to do with the question of if we have a priority, or not? I don't think we have, although there is no way to prove it, that I see now at least? Even if we do have a priority, it doesn't answer why you get this mix. If we were living in a universe where only the highest ranking probabilities fell out, maybe we could argue a priority? But here?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1771 on: 11/03/2016 15:17:16 »
'Coexistence' it has to be, and if that is the way it is, then what we can measure and observe is only the tip of the iceberg. In such a universe propagation is a questionable thing to me. And so is 'time' naturally, but constants isn't.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1772 on: 11/03/2016 15:29:07 »
And 'time' then, what is it? The universe won't agree with your wristwatch, neither will mine. But locally defined your arrow doesn't change relative yourself. Your lifespan is, loosely speaking, 'constant'. To what should we track it? Some smallest 'point', or just using 'constants'? If we want to define it to points, then I don't know. To me those imaginary points of 'magnifying' SpaceTime are constants. In some weird way they permeate SpaceTime, everywhere. If they do, then that too tells us something of the universe.It tells us that 'magnifying' won't be the answer.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1773 on: 11/03/2016 15:32:04 »
There has to be a simpler way.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1774 on: 11/03/2016 15:41:13 »
Geodesics are weird stuff. I can imagine (not really, but for the sake of my argument) a infinity of geodesics, through some center. All of them without resistance and friction, all coexisting in each point of SpaceTime. We don't need to consider matter for this, gravitationally 'acting and reacting' on each other, just those geodesics. There must be a possible infinity of geodesics through every 'center' thought up.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1775 on: 11/03/2016 15:43:33 »
Why doesn't they bring a cost with them?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1776 on: 11/03/2016 15:46:34 »
What would the geodesic(s) be for the spinning ropes center?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1777 on: 11/03/2016 15:50:16 »
Spinning and rotations.
Versus a 'uniform motion'
One costs, the other doesn't.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1778 on: 11/03/2016 16:06:41 »
Everything follows geodesics, after the acceleration is done. To it you can add 'potential energy', which is the 'energy' something gains by getting acted (as well as acting) on by gravitation, a vase falling from your table for example gains 'energy' on its geodesic to the floor. Or you can turn it around and define it to the floor rushing upwards in its own geodesic, meeting the vase. But the 'energy' existing there isn't locally measurable, until the impact. Which, to me then, makes it a relation.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1779 on: 11/03/2016 18:36:49 »
Life is weird, we all have experiences, some good, others questionable :)
Then again, life is for living. Yeah, no easy answer and no gurus.

Then again, isn't that what it means?
Being yourself?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1780 on: 11/03/2016 18:44:14 »
I've had a really bad time with the idea of 'potential energy'. I prefer it to be measurable myself. Then again, it comes down to how you think of the universe, I suspect? You want a whole universe? A 'bubble' ? Welcome to potential energy, used by 'motion' (as well as gravity). You want something different? Then 'potential energy' is a really bad influence :)
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1781 on: 11/03/2016 18:50:22 »
There are always different ways to look at it, but with potential energy it becomes really difficult. Something happens at some position in a SpaceTime, creating a 'force'. What did it is 'potential energy'.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1782 on: 11/03/2016 19:01:33 »
Tell me, what would be 'potential energy' in a SpaceTime without propagation?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1783 on: 11/03/2016 19:31:19 »
Don't know about you, but I know that it isn't that big a question that you might think? A whole lot of people have wondered about 'motion', and as we call it now, 'propagation'. I'm just one of them. No easy answers, and no gurus. I write this not because of you, but because of me. I need to understand.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1784 on: 11/03/2016 19:33:52 »
This is my place. and my time, don't know if it matters at all :)

Then again, isn't that just what life is?
not knowing, hoping, and trying.
In the end, what matters?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1785 on: 11/03/2016 19:39:48 »
Yeah, love, honor and honesty.
Understanding, and forgiving.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1786 on: 11/03/2016 19:41:05 »
:)

Well, so what?

I contain multitudes.
And so do you.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1787 on: 11/03/2016 19:50:13 »
One has to differ between forgiving and what is good or bad.
When it comes to forgiving it's about history.

Without it we only have an eye for an eye. And no future.
It's like us stopping throwing cats in the fire to get a good laugh.
Some lessons are harder to assimilate, but we will do them, each one of us that thinks there is a future.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1788 on: 11/03/2016 20:10:27 »
Doesn't say that you need to kiss ass. Forgiving is letting go, doesn't state backing down
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1789 on: 18/03/2016 20:57:15 »
Been out with some friends :) And I'm confused. Then again, doesn't take much to make me confused, does it? One oft hose guys is what I think of as an artist, an artist of life. I like them both, one is hard, but thinking, the other is also hard but in another way, he's not as sure on what life means-, but he can make it laugh. Then I go home and try to make sense of it all. It's not about the money, it's about living.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1790 on: 18/03/2016 21:01:35 »
I don't really like guys and and gals to be the same. I like each one of them to bring something unique to a relationship. I like to open the door for a girl, and I also like my dreams. Wtf is life, without dreams?
==

As usual, my literation sux.
« Last Edit: 18/03/2016 21:07:27 by yor_on »
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1791 on: 23/03/2016 16:00:15 »
This one has been on my mind for some while. Happened to look at a seminar of sorts, in where people are set to answer, what I call, impossible questions. As for example, 'to kill one innocent to save three others'. It's presented as being logic, and in a rather inhuman way I suppose it is. I then started to wonder why those kinds of seminars was popular, and what kind of people that would have a use for them? Normally it won't help you, as far as I know,  not in a instant reaction, because that is about 'now' and about your 'core' of beliefs and instinctive responses. But there exist a group of of people that really would like to believe that this kind of seminars can change you, it's the same type of groups that invented the term 'collateral damage'. As a practice in logic it's rather limited, as it seems to me. Only by accepting its limits, its borders of thought, will you find it work, and as I said. It's not really for what you will do as it happens. But it gives those making you accept it a further excuse.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1792 on: 23/03/2016 16:56:05 »
One might consider this as not being important, but presented as a logic and presented to, as well as acclaimed by, young people it sets a precedency towards a way of thinking, and so acting. The real point of a logic as this is in the way it can be used, and that is solely strategic. It's a view that is shared by those we call terrorists, as well as by contemporary military logic. The way of 'collateral damage', and its uses. The 'trick' of it lies in making one believe that going to those seminars, accepting the strictures of logic involved, then trying to choose, will change you. It won't as it happens, but for a strategist it might, before a course chosen, and also in the way you, and others, react after. And as I said, firstly I would call it a excuse, for inhuman behavior. Although, that naturally depends on what you think the word 'human' stands for?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1793 on: 24/03/2016 14:09:17 »
What I think :)
Is that those believing in those visions find a need for security, their own, and yours. And possibly also that they consider themselves leaders. I don't need them though, do you?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1794 on: 24/03/2016 14:10:06 »
I live, and then I die. What the f* did you expect?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1795 on: 24/03/2016 14:14:06 »
Be a human being.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1796 on: 24/03/2016 17:47:09 »
Everything isn't alright, but I recon you know that. So do I, and as always, when I think of it I think of my kids. What about you?
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1797 on: 24/03/2016 17:50:23 »
Yeah, life has a ability to make us forget, in ruder terms to make us 'f* up'. None of us planned for it, it's just one of those things. So, thus that exclude you from living?  F' that,  be a human being :)
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« Last Edit: 24/03/2016 17:53:08 by yor_on »
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1798 on: 24/03/2016 18:06:53 »
In simple terms, some people would love you to just follow orders. As you do it you accept that others know better than you, understand life better than you, probably get better kids and better homes too :) Can I sell that to you? I can, can't I? Otherwise, you're 'asocial', isn't you?

You live, and then you die, buying BS.
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Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)
« Reply #1799 on: 24/03/2016 18:11:44 »
Modern society is a mystery to me. It mostly reminds me of a anthill. It's not individual choice that creates it, it more seems as some law. And, to me, the end-result should be you, standing by yourself. Or you can do it now and hasten the process.
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