[Tony_82 (OP)]

E = mc2, The Big Bang and Gravity
 

We all know that a very small amount of matter can be converted to energy. (e=mc2)
 
So it stands to reason that a very large amount of energy can be converted to mass, is there anywhere in nature that this happens?
 
When and if there was a big bang, was everything pure energy to start off with, and due to the size of the universe at the time of expansion; did this cause some of it to convert to mass?
 
As it is believed, that gravity is a curve or warp in space, that cause's objects with mass to attract one another; is it possible that it could be the result of energy converting to mass? ( By the force of converting the energy to mass it could cause the fabric of space it's self to warp around the mass. )
 
 
Many thanks,

[Vern]

So it stands to reason that a very large amount of energy can be converted to mass, is there anywhere in nature that this happens?

Yes; energy does produce mass. This happens routinely in particle accelerators. But gravity is not only produced by matter. Energy also produces gravity and is attracted by gravity.


My speculation is that we can eliminate the middle man. Since matter is mostly energy, why not investigate whether it is the energy content of matter that is totally responsible for gravity. A consistent theory of gravity is possible within that concept.

[Tony_82 (OP)]

I agree that energy is affected by gravity, but does energy have gravity, you state it does, where are you getting your information from?

[Vern]

The fact that light produces a gravitational field is not my idea, although I need it to be so in my cause and effect speculations. It is one of the predictions of Einstein's General theory of relativity but Poincare and others suggested it before Einstein formalized it.

Einstein\'s theory of general relativity says that G_uv=-8(pi)T_uv. There is a way to formulate T_uv with respect to the electromagnetic field tensor F_uv=a_u,v-a_v,u where a is the electromagnetic potential. This would mean that energy actually creates a gravitational effect just like it\'s mass equivalent.

[Tony_82 (OP)]

Would one way of testing it, to be the speed of light...

Gravity can speed up and slow down matter and change it's direction, because I believe all matter curves or warp space.

When it comes to light, gravity can merely change the direction of light, it cannot affect the speed.

When it comes to black holes, the curve or warp in space is so great that it bends the light back around.

[PhysBang]

My speculation is that we can eliminate the middle man. Since matter is mostly energy, why not investigate whether it is the energy content of matter that is totally responsible for gravity. A consistent theory of gravity is possible within that concept.

Indeed, it's called the General Theory of Relativity.

[Vern]

GR is a great theory but it does not provide the mechanism for gravity. It just describes the effects very accurately.

[Mr. Scientist]

I agree that energy is affected by gravity, but does energy have gravity, you state it does, where are you getting your information from?

Photons have an acceleration aspect to them, so that they curve space and time as they move through the vacuum. This curvature is a generated gravitational field, this is why it can couple to other curvatures.

[Tony_82 (OP)]

I agree that energy is affected by gravity, but does energy have gravity, you state it does, where are you getting your information from?

Photons have an acceleration aspect to them, so that they curve space and time as they move through the vacuum. This curvature is a generated gravitational field, this is why it can couple to other curvatures.

Again, I agree that energy is affected by gravity, but does energy have gravity, you state it does, where are you getting your information from?

[Mr. Scientist]

No, you should read what is being said first.

I said, a photon generates a gravitational field. I never said it instrinsically-possessed a gravitational mass, since the weak-equivalance principle forbids this.

[Tony_82 (OP)]

OK, please tell me, how you know "a photon generates a gravitational field," or where you are getting your information from that states this? 

[Mr. Scientist]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

''Conversely, photons are themselves affected by gravity; their normally straight trajectories may be bent by warped spacetime,''

-- operative words: bent by warped spacetime and effected by gravity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_lensing

''According to general relativity, mass "warps" space-time to create gravitational fields and therefore bend light as a result.''

---Operative words: to create gravitational fields and therefore bend light

Photons do have a momentum through spacetime given as E^2=p^2c^2+M^2c^2, and therefore as a result, curves spacetime as it moves through spacetime and so creating its own gravitational field. Energy alone is enough to cause curvature (or distortions in spacetime) and so gravitational masses are not unique in this sense. Gravitationally-radiating bodies and bodies which cause spacetime gravitational field all cause distortions in spacetime.

[Tony_82 (OP)]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon [nofollow]

''Conversely, photons are themselves affected by gravity; their normally straight trajectories may be bent by warped spacetime,''

-- operative words: bent by warped spacetime and effected by gravity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_lensing [nofollow]

''According to general relativity, mass "warps" space-time to create gravitational fields and therefore bend light as a result.''

---Operative words: to create gravitational fields and therefore bend light

Photons do have a momentum through spacetime given as E^2=p^2c^2+M^2c^2, and therefore as a result, curves spacetime as it moves through spacetime and so creating its own gravitational field. Energy alone is enough to cause curvature (or distortions in spacetime) and so gravitational masses are not unique in this sense. Gravitationally-radiating bodies and bodies which cause spacetime gravitational field all cause distortions in spacetime.

I agree that energy is affected by gravity, no question of that,

However, I do not see how the above proves that light has a gravitational field.

You state that "Energy alone is enough to cause curvature," Again, I agree that energy is affected by gravity, but does energy have gravity, you state it does, where are you getting your information from?

[Mr. Scientist]

what is the sun but pure gamma energy? Is this body not capable of causing curvature around it? All rhetorical questions, but the point you are missing is that curvature is actually the same thing as a gravitational field.

Realize your mistake now?

[Tony_82 (OP)]

what is the sun but pure gamma energy? Is this body not capable of causing curvature around it? All rhetorical questions, but the point you are missing is that curvature is actually the same thing as a gravitational field.

Realize your mistake now?

"but the point you are missing is that curvature is actually the same thing as a gravitational field. Realize your mistake now?"

No, really, is it, never, thanks for pointing that out.

"All rhetorical questions"

No, don't worry about it, I will answer your questions,

"what is the sun but pure gamma energy?

No, I think, about three-fourths of the Sun's mass consists of hydrogen, most of the rest is helium. Less than 2% consists of other elements, including iron, oxygen, carbon, neon, and others.

"Is this body not capable of causing curvature around it?"

I never stated the sun has no gravity.

[Mr. Scientist]

what is the sun but pure gamma energy? Is this body not capable of causing curvature around it? All rhetorical questions, but the point you are missing is that curvature is actually the same thing as a gravitational field.

Realize your mistake now?

"but the point you are missing is that curvature is actually the same thing as a gravitational field. Realize your mistake now?"

No, really, is it, never, thanks for pointing that out.

"All rhetorical questions"

No, don't worry about it, I will answer your questions,

"what is the sun but pure gamma energy?

No, I think, about three-fourths of the Sun's mass consists of hydrogen, most of the rest is helium. Less than 2% consists of other elements, including iron, oxygen, carbon, neon, and others.

"Is this body not capable of causing curvature around it?"

I never stated the sun has no gravity.

Evading your mistake again intentionally. Also, your sarcasm was uncalled for.

If you cannot understand that something which generates a curvature is also generating a field, then i cannot say anymore.

[Mr. Scientist]

EVEN a single quantum photon is a distortion of spacetime. And when i was talking about pur gamma energy, i was referring to light being generated in general, is still part of the suns makeup. Mass is not special when curvature is involved. Energy can also casue curvature, thus solidifying the arguement that photon generates its own gravitational field as it inexorably moves through the vacuum. It's not due to mass, but energy with momentum in general.

[Tony_82 (OP)]

EVEN a single quantum photon is a distortion of spacetime. And when i was talking about pur gamma energy, i was referring to light being generated in general, is still part of the suns makeup. Mass is not special when curvature is involved. Energy can also casue curvature, thus solidifying the arguement that photon generates its own gravitational field as it inexorably moves through the vacuum. It's not due to mass, but energy with momentum in general.

Again, I agree that energy is affected by gravity, but does energy have gravity, you state it does, where are you getting your information from?

[Vern]

The notion that a photon produces a gravitational field is part of Einstein's General theory of relativity. All theories of nature contain the notion; it is necessary for consistency. When you equate mass to energy, you must equate the whole of it. E = mc² does not allow you to somehow separate gravity from the m in the equation.

Now, you can continue to be sceptical; there is no experimental proof that I know about; but the maths work so well that we usually accept it. You would need some powerful experimental evidence to refute the notion that photons produce gravity.  []

[Tony_82 (OP)]

The notion that a photon produces a gravitational field is part of Einstein's General theory of relativity. All theories of nature contain the notion; it is necessary for consistency. When you equate mass to energy, you must equate the whole of it. E = mc² does not allow you to somehow separate gravity from the m in the equation.

Now, you can continue to be sceptical; there is no experimental proof that I know about; but the maths work so well that we usually accept it. You would need some powerful experimental evidence to refute the notion that photons produce gravity.  []

I've asked http://madsci.org/ask.html [nofollow] the question now, they say it will take 2 or more weeks, I will let you know what they say.

"E = mc2 does not allow you to somehow separate gravity from the m in the equation."

I am still looking for information on energy converting to matter in particle accelerators.

You say that matter is mostly energy, earlier (08/11/2009 19:27:40) do you not believe that matter is 100% made up from energy.