Does slowed ageing at high speeds reflect a molecular "slow-down"?

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Offline Geezer

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It may not be impossible to conduct the experiment. I'm a bit behind on high stability clock technology, but these days it might be possible to build a non-atomic clock that is sufficiently stable to conduct a test on a satellite. Would a crystal consisting of a millions of molecules be sufficiently macroscopic for the test?

It's not impossible... It requires quite a lot of energy though, and by conventional wisdom, would far exceed a spacecrafts capabilies.

I'm not suggesting that the clock would have to travel very fast. The experiment would be to put an atomic clock and a crystal clock on a satellite, or even an aircraft, and see if they keep the same time or not. However, I'm not confident state-of-the-art crystal clocks (crystal oscillators) are sufficiently stable to conduct such an experiment.
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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No. But i am. I am still waiting for the macroscopic twin experiment to be performed to a high-speed or relativistic accuracy. Not those which involve non-organic components.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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Offline Geezer

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Then perhaps you better explain exactly what you mean by "macroscopic". Your earlier definition implied that non-macroscopic was limited to a small number of atoms (as in the atoms in an atomic clock).

By that definition a crystal oscillator is clearly macroscopic.

Apparently, we are now required to accept that macroscopic (by your definition) only applies to organic components.

Would you kindly make up your mind and define what you mean by "macroscopic".

Perhaps it only applies during months that do not include an "R".
« Last Edit: 06/12/2009 04:58:26 by Geezer »
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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I had hoped you might have come to realize i am specifically talking about humans that can internally-experience time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

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Offline Geezer

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OK. Are you limiting it to humans, or would other animals experience the same phenomenon?

There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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OK. Are you limiting it to humans, or would other animals experience the same phenomenon?



Only to humans. I have no other evidence that animals experience and know the passing of some time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline PhysBang

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What about the experiments with the atomic clocks where humans were in the same plane as an atomic clock. Isn't that a test with humans involved?

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Offline Geezer

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OK. Are you limiting it to humans, or would other animals experience the same phenomenon?



Only to humans. I have no other evidence that animals experience and know the passing of some time.

Dogs maybe? Our Scottie gets fed at the same times every day. She starts whining like crazy if we are late with her food.
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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What about the experiments with the atomic clocks where humans were in the same plane as an atomic clock. Isn't that a test with humans involved?

Does no one ******** listen here????


Lee was right - no one reads the threads before answering. I said, and for the very last time ''time delay on an extreme record''. Humans have not experienced that yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Geezer

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What about the experiments with the atomic clocks where humans were in the same plane as an atomic clock. Isn't that a test with humans involved?

Does no one ******** listen here????


Lee was right - no one reads the threads before answering. I said, and for the very last time ''time delay on an extreme record''. Humans have not experienced that yet.

Obviously, we can't listen, but we can read. I just did a search on "time delay on an extreme record", and the only occurrence is in your latest post. Perhaps you said something else.

Anyway, what about dogs?
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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What about the experiments with the atomic clocks where humans were in the same plane as an atomic clock. Isn't that a test with humans involved?

Does no one ******** listen here????


Lee was right - no one reads the threads before answering. I said, and for the very last time ''time delay on an extreme record''. Humans have not experienced that yet.

Obviously, we can't listen, but we can read. I just did a search on "time delay on an extreme record", and the only occurrence is in your latest post. Perhaps you said something else.

Anyway, what about dogs?

I have no thoughts on dogs. I am not a dog, so i am not aware if they would even know a lapse in time has occurred.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Geezer

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But surely, as a scientist, you must consider all the data available. It seems my dog has a rather accute sense of time. Are you saying that data is invalid?
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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But surely, as a scientist, you must consider all the data available. It seems my dog has a rather accute sense of time. Are you saying that data is invalid?

No, i'm saying that it would be incomplete as to suggest we can fully understand what is going on in a dogs head. Animals can be conditioned to life, for instance as to never really know what a time is all about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Geezer

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But surely, as a scientist, you must consider all the data available. It seems my dog has a rather acute sense of time. Are you saying that data is invalid?

No, i'm saying that it would be incomplete as to suggest we can fully understand what is going on in a dogs head. Animals can be conditioned to life, for instance as to never really know what a time is all about.

That's certainly true. Dogs are susceptible to conditioning. But I don't think we should underestimate their innate sense of time and place. For example, Shona, our Scottie, stands on her hind legs and bears her teeth to smile at people, just as a human would do. Nobody trained her to do this. Either she figured it out for herself, or it's a genetic characteristic. Either way, it is most endearing, so we probably spoil her.

Anyway, why would we suppose that we can understand what is going on inside a human cranium any more than we can understand what is going on inside a canine cranium? Are humans any less conditioned than dogs?
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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But surely, as a scientist, you must consider all the data available. It seems my dog has a rather acute sense of time. Are you saying that data is invalid?

No, i'm saying that it would be incomplete as to suggest we can fully understand what is going on in a dogs head. Animals can be conditioned to life, for instance as to never really know what a time is all about.

That's certainly true. Dogs are susceptible to conditioning. But I don't think we should underestimate their innate sense of time and place. For example, Shona, our Scottie, stands on her hind legs and bears her teeth to smile at people, just as a human would do. Nobody trained her to do this. Either she figured it out for herself, or it's a genetic characteristic. Either way, it is most endearing, so we probably spoil her.

Anyway, why would we suppose that we can understand what is going on inside a human cranium any more than we can understand what is going on inside a canine cranium? Are humans any less conditioned than dogs?
Ever heard of self-reflection theory? About three animals in the kingdom have this level of intellect, such as a Dolphin, Elephants and Monkeys - including ourselves; dogs are rather thick on this level of intelligence. But again,i dare not speculate any temperal feelings for the animals, not that i deny them for the three examples given above.. it's just that i'm too *****-whipped to decide publically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Geezer

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I'm sure you enjoy the use of all your limbs. If you would like to continue using them, I suggest you do not let Shona hear you describing her as "thick".

She might wish to direct some comments at you. I will endeavour to translate them on her behalf.

Joking aside (I'll try to persuade Shona you were only joking), I think you are postulating that everything is susceptible to time dilation except humans because they are aware of time.

Did I get it right, or is there another caveat that is yet to be revealed? I'm afraid my clairvoyance engine is in the shop at the moment.
« Last Edit: 07/12/2009 06:51:04 by Geezer »
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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I'm sure you enjoy the use of all your limbs. If you would like to continue using them, I suggest you do not let Shona hear you describing her as "thick".

She might wish to direct some comments at you. I will endeavour to translate them on her behalf.

Joking aside (I'll try to persuade Shona you were only joking), I think you are postulating that everything is susceptible to time dilation except humans because they are aware of time.

Did I get it right, or is there another caveat that is yet to be revealed? I'm afraid my clairvoyance engine is in the shop at the moment.

lol; ok where i have bolded... you mean me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Geezer

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Naturellement.
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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Then no. :s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Geezer

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OK. I give up.

Please desribe your theory.
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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What theory? All i have said is that physics surprises us at nearly every corner. All i said that is biological entities may not atually be able to endure an extreem effect of time-dilation. It's not a theory, just a speculation on what we don't know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Geezer

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Ah ha!

Now we have biological entities.

That would include Shona, right?
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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Ah ha!

Now we have biological entities.

That would include Shona, right?

Remember, i'm not bold enough to make such a conjecture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Geezer

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Suddenly so coy? How about a yes or no. You seemed sure of your convictions quite recently.
« Last Edit: 07/12/2009 08:05:19 by Geezer »
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline PhysBang

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What theory? All i have said is that physics surprises us at nearly every corner. All i said that is biological entities may not atually be able to endure an extreem effect of time-dilation. It's not a theory, just a speculation on what we don't know.
It's a speculation that goes against everything we do know. You have speculating, against all evidence to the contrary, that biological systems have special laws of physics.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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What theory? All i have said is that physics surprises us at nearly every corner. All i said that is biological entities may not atually be able to endure an extreem effect of time-dilation. It's not a theory, just a speculation on what we don't know.
It's a speculation that goes against everything we do know. You have speculating, against all evidence to the contrary, that biological systems have special laws of physics.

How can we specalate and (hence the and) postulate to an absolute degree of certainty that biological systems can?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline PhysBang

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How can we specalate and (hence the and) postulate to an absolute degree of certainty that biological systems can?
I have news for you: you are right now undergoing extreme (z>1) redshift. The redshift that you are undergoing is dependent on choice of coordinates, so anytime a calculation is done in certain systems of coordinates, you experience extreme redshift.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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How can we specalate and (hence the and) postulate to an absolute degree of certainty that biological systems can?
I have news for you: you are right now undergoing extreme (z>1) redshift. The redshift that you are undergoing is dependent on choice of coordinates, so anytime a calculation is done in certain systems of coordinates, you experience extreme redshift.

Now you are talking mash-potatoes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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Oh!!!! - thatb reminds me of the tune from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny8dbqKZ2KA

Give me, Give me, Give me, some crazy tonight... lalalalllaaaa lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline PhysBang

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Now you are talking mash-potatoes.
In the sense that I am talking about the very basic foundations of relativity theory, yes.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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Then there is no debate anymore :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶

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Offline Geezer

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Give me, Give me, Give me, some crazy tonight... lalalalllaaaa lol

I see the meds are having an effect. Do you think you should be driving a computer?
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Mr. Scientist

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I don't. It drives me ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZGcNx8nV8U

''God could not have had much time on His hands when he formed the Planck Lengths.''

 ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿̿'\̵͇̿̿\=(●̪•)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿

٩๏̯͡๏۶