Can you identify the location?

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Offline Geezer

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Can you identify the location?
« on: 14/02/2010 07:26:58 »
Does anyone happen to know where this photo was taken? It might be near Blackpool. It's from an old family album and we are trying to identify the location.

[attachment=11318]
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #1 on: 14/02/2010 11:32:52 »
Regrettably, there is not a lot to go on. The two buildings are distinctive and the chimney in the background may be significant but I can't place it. I'm originally from Formby, Lancs. so know that part of the world quite well.

Quick research on the aircraft, which I expect you've done, shows it to be an AVRO 504 which crashed 9th May 1932. It belonged at the time to Northern Air Transport based in Barton near Manchester. The photo does not seem to be of Barton though. It looks like a beach area (JPEG limits the resolution) but I can't tell. 

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #2 on: 14/02/2010 12:55:48 »
Northern air transport did operate between Manchester and Stanley Park Aerodrome in Blackpool. Could it be there? The area has been redeveloped so an contemporary map is required.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #3 on: 14/02/2010 19:07:07 »
Thanks Graham!
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Offline RD

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« Reply #4 on: 14/02/2010 19:21:45 »
Very little can be done to improve the images of the buildings on the photo posted ...

[attachment=11322]

You may be able increase the resolution setting on your scanner for a more detailed image.
« Last Edit: 14/02/2010 19:28:30 by RD »

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #5 on: 15/02/2010 00:28:20 »
Very little can be done to improve the images of the buildings on the photo posted ...

[attachment=11322]

You may be able increase the resolution setting on your scanner for a more detailed image.

Thanks RD. My brother in Aberdeen has the original. I'll ask him to try to step up the resolution.
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #6 on: 15/02/2010 00:42:21 »
If anyone is interested, here's the gent that took the picture. It's my dad, and this is probably in the chemist shop in Blackpool where he worked as a young pharmacist.

[attachment=11328]
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Offline neilep

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« Reply #7 on: 15/02/2010 01:20:32 »
Geezer..

I think ewe have missed a vital clue in the picture !

If ewe look very closely....(it's tricky but squint and you'll see it !!)...but I reckon your pop took this photo in India !!



[attachment=11330]



Glad I could help !


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Offline RD

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« Reply #8 on: 15/02/2010 07:04:18 »
I'll ask him to try to step up the resolution.

This does increase the time taken to scan the image and the file size, but the time could be reduced by just scanning the centre area with the buildings, not the whole image.
For highest resolution the image should not be in a lossy compression format like jpeg, but lossless like png. (File size will be 5x - 10x bigger than jpeg).

Increasing the resolution of the scan may not necessarily improve the image: if you can see sharply defined photographic grain on the digital image that's as good as it's going to get.

BTW here is Geezer Snr without the bright flare spot in the centre of the frame ...

[attachment=11340]
« Last Edit: 15/02/2010 17:04:48 by RD »

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #9 on: 16/02/2010 13:55:31 »
Looking again, DiscoverDave may be right about Crosby Beach but better resolution would help. What I remember, from 40 plus years ago, is that Ormskirk Parish Church can be seen from much of the area in that part of the world. The shape of the hill and the church look like the feature on the horizon towards the right of the picture. The church is very distinctive (see pics on the web) so may be reconisable with better resolution. If so it is the north end of the beach otherwise Ormskirk would not be seen; the land rises close to the shore further towards Liverpool. The two impressive buildings may be related to the golf course to their north but I could find no pics of the area in the 1920s to confirm. They are not there now - at least not like that. It is certainly true that Northern Air Transport operated around Crosby too as one of their other Avro 504s crashed in Crosby.

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #10 on: 17/02/2010 17:57:43 »
Maybe further to the North, if it's there at all. Better resolution pic would help. Identifying Ormskirk parish church on the hill in the distance would definately tie it down to this area.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #11 on: 17/02/2010 18:12:25 »
Thanks everyone!

I've asked my brother to send hi res clips of the buildings. He only checks his e-mail about once a week, so it could take a while  [:D]
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #12 on: 18/02/2010 09:12:44 »
Not just the buildings, Geezer. The two main buildings are reasonably clear anyway. If we had a photo or map from the 1920s it would be clear. The church on the mound to the right of the picture is important. Apart from the file size, it isn't any harder to get a high res image of the whole thing is it?

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #13 on: 19/02/2010 03:52:07 »
Dave, I think Graham is referring to this one.

Oooh! I just noticed that there appears to be someone on a bicycle (or motor cycle perhaps) right above the letter L on the fuselage. That could suggest there is a paved surface at that point.

[attachment=11378]
« Last Edit: 19/02/2010 03:57:43 by Geezer »
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #14 on: 19/02/2010 10:01:07 »
Correct. You need to compare that church with Ormskirk Parish church which has an unusual spire and tower combination. Unfortunately, I don't think it is Ormskirk Church from this image, but I am not wholly sure.

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #15 on: 19/02/2010 15:28:59 »
Dave, I suggested Ormskirk because I lived in the area (Formby) for the first 18 years of my life and remember that the church on the hill (about 8 miles away) was a very distinctive feature that could be seen from Ainsdale to Crosby. South of Crosby it was too built up, and I think it was even in the 1920s. It could be another church, and it is hard to determine the perpective, but then it would not narrow it down to Crosby particularly. Did you have any reason to suspect Crosby? I didn't think it would be there (until you suggested it) because Geezer was suggesting Blackpool area.

I don't think it's Blackpool tower that you can see unless there is a heavy smoker on top. I think I see a plume so it is probably a chimney stack. If it were the tower we would have to be much further North than Crosby.

Interesting puzzle isn't it?

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Offline RD

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« Reply #16 on: 19/02/2010 15:37:01 »
I don't think it's Blackpool tower

It is more like a chimney: the insert is derived form the Blackpool tower image posted above

[attachment=11391]

The "plume" could be cloud rather than smoke, but the building seems too slim to be the tower.
« Last Edit: 19/02/2010 15:39:32 by RD »

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #17 on: 19/02/2010 15:49:45 »
I would have a small wager that it is a smoke plume - it's in the same direction as the smoke from the more distinctive stack over the EB on the plane. Could be a cloud though.

You are pretty nifty with the photo manipulation, RD. Are you using photoshop?

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #18 on: 19/02/2010 16:30:32 »
Here is a pic of Ormskirk parish church taken from the south. The tower is very distinctive alonside the spire. This may not tally with the church in the pic, which if viewed from Crosby, would be looking from the south west. Need the high res picci.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ormskirk_Parish_Church.JPG

One other useful pointer, if we could determine it, is that churches are generally aligned East-West along their length. I don't think the spire has to be anywhere but it is often at one end.

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Offline RD

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« Reply #19 on: 19/02/2010 18:53:37 »
RD. Are you using photoshop?

I’m a cheapskate : I use a free image manipulation programme called GIMP. It is available in Photoshop format : GIMPshop*.

[* should be the name of a sub-section in Anne Summers boutiques  [:)] ]   
« Last Edit: 19/02/2010 19:01:40 by RD »

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #20 on: 22/02/2010 09:18:30 »
I was only 20 or so miles from Crosby at the weekend (visiting my mum in the Wirral) and would have gone to have a look had the weather been OK, but snow showers would have made it pointless as visibility very low. Looking at an OS map suggests that the church on the hill at Ormskirk may not be visible from Blundellsands afterall, as there seems to be some high ground in between. It may be a closer church (there is a possible one in Little Crosby) but it is hard to say. Of course it may not be this area at all!!

The photo must have been taken between 1927 (aircraft purchased) and May 9th, 1932 when it was written off after a crash (there were no fatalities).

When you get a higher res photo, Geezer, I suggest that you scan it with at least 4x the resolution (preferably more). Because the file will be huge I suggest just posting the key features as separate pics.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #21 on: 24/02/2010 06:13:29 »
Looks like my brother figured it out. The idea that it was near Blackpool was a bum steer. Sorry!

Here are the the coordinates of the left distinctive building with the turret. Both buildings are still there. You should be able to find the church spire. Also, the "factory chimney" is not what it seems. 

55°27'15.01"N   
4°38'28.85"W

Small World Graham. My mother had a cousin who lived in the Wirral. Her husband was a marine bioligist at Liv Uni.
« Last Edit: 24/02/2010 06:23:39 by Geezer »
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #22 on: 24/02/2010 08:57:54 »
Bu**er, I was enjoying the challenge. I'm not sure I would have guessed at looking that far north though, given all the clues about where the plane operated. What was the big event everyone was gathered for?

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Offline RD

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« Reply #23 on: 24/02/2010 11:03:47 »
Also, the "factory chimney" is not what it seems. 

55°27'15.01"N   
4°38'28.85"W


[attachment=11422]

Insert derived from this image ... http://www.clydesite.co.uk/ayr/ayr_town_hall.asp

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #24 on: 24/02/2010 11:39:37 »
It is hard to see where the viewing point is, where the two houses are and where the church is. Can you give exact coordinates for each Geezer? I would have thought the town hall spire would be further to the right compared to the image (I still think it's a chimney).

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Offline geo driver

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« Reply #25 on: 24/02/2010 12:14:04 »
sadly around that time England was littered with sandy/muddy areodromes and any field would do for a landing site if necessery.  and the area of blackpool is covered with post industrial revaluation chimnies.  and prewar ones.
it looks like a beach where the tides go out a long way.  look around the beaches round blackpool for post WW2 beach partys
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Offline geo driver

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« Reply #26 on: 24/02/2010 12:16:57 »
when posting ideas it is important to see the entire thread, and not just the first page, i was enjoying that as well
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Offline RD

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« Reply #27 on: 24/02/2010 12:21:37 »
Cleaner version of this ...

[attachment=11424]

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #28 on: 24/02/2010 17:28:58 »
You can see all the landmarks on Google Earth. (That's where I got the coordinates.) I'll try to highlight them on an image later. I'll also try to figure out the location of the camera.

RD did the same thing that my brother did to ID the steeple. The one on Ayr town hall is quite unmistakable. I think the Church spire on the horizon to the right is also clearly visible on GE, although I have not checked to ensure that it existed around the time of the photograph, but I'm pretty sure it did. On GE you can get a good idea of its height from the whopping big shadow it casts.
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Offline neilep

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« Reply #29 on: 24/02/2010 17:43:49 »
Seeing as the geezer conundrum has been solved...(though I still think it was taken beside the Taj Mahal)

Can someone please help me find the location of the place in this photo ?  [;D] [;D]





Thanks for your help
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Offline neilep

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« Reply #30 on: 24/02/2010 19:08:48 »
I knew that !

it was like a gift from frenchy land to america land ?.....I bet they stuffed it with garlic !
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Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #31 on: 24/02/2010 19:17:21 »
I also new that.. I think most of us Americans do!

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #32 on: 25/02/2010 01:46:42 »
OK - Here's another one.

No prizes for identifying the subject as the suave and debonair prototype Geezer.

But where is Geezer standing?

[attachment=11438]
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Offline neilep

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« Reply #33 on: 25/02/2010 01:54:31 »
On a wall ?
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #34 on: 25/02/2010 02:01:02 »
Right! One point to the Tupperator.
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #35 on: 25/02/2010 09:24:45 »
I'd guess somewhere in Scotland.

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Offline neilep

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« Reply #36 on: 25/02/2010 10:32:36 »
Is it Loch Ness ?,,are ewe Nessie ?..it's a Loch in any case !
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Offline neilep

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« Reply #37 on: 25/02/2010 10:42:49 »
I now think it may definitely NOT be Loch Ness..too hilly/mountainy !
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Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #38 on: 25/02/2010 13:16:45 »
reminds me of crater lake.. nice piccy geezer!

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #39 on: 25/02/2010 18:08:21 »
I need to go on Google Earth and see if it's possible to view a similar perspective. If it is, I don't think I should give out any clues. That would make it more challenging, but you would know when you had found it.

But if everyone prefers yes/no responses that will work too. What do you think?


BTW, the location was in the metadata. I think I removed it! RD will let us know if I didn't.
« Last Edit: 25/02/2010 18:10:58 by Geezer »
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Offline RD

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« Reply #40 on: 25/02/2010 19:32:10 »
BTW, the location was in the metadata. I think I removed it! RD will let us know if I didn't.

The only information I can extract from the metedata is that the Geezer family are loaded : Macintosh and Adobe CS,
and that the digital image was created on the 1st December 2009.
[ It is possible to remove all the Metadata, including date and software, using free RIOT programme/plug-in, example attached ].
« Last Edit: 25/02/2010 20:13:11 by RD »

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #41 on: 25/02/2010 20:29:35 »
The only information I can extract from the metedata is that the Geezer family are loaded : Macintosh and Adobe CS,
and that the digital image was created on the 1st December 2009.

Ah! That's the Geezer brother. Funny thing is, he's too cheap to pay for broadband, so he had to take my Google Earth reference to the Apple store to see what I was talking about.

Mind you, there is a clue. He lives in Aberdeen. He gives some credence to the expression,

"The streets were deserted. It was like Aberdeen on a flag day."
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #42 on: 25/02/2010 23:14:20 »
The Google Earth view of the location where the extremely handsome, if slightly long in the leg, "yout" is standing is rather good. You'll know when you find it.

BTW, do you think that water is fresh, or is it salty?
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #43 on: 26/02/2010 18:31:34 »
Is it Loch Lochy?

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #44 on: 26/02/2010 20:48:18 »
Is it Loch Lochy?
Not even close!
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #45 on: 26/02/2010 20:54:02 »
Here's the Google Earth view. (Don't worry - no Lat/Long)

I don't think I should give out any more clues. This should tell you if you've found it or not.

[attachment=11452]
« Last Edit: 26/02/2010 21:02:19 by Geezer »
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #46 on: 27/02/2010 00:58:08 »
This is where I think the features are on the Avro photo.

[attachment=11454]
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #47 on: 27/02/2010 11:02:43 »
Geezer, the angle subtended at the camera from the church and the town hall would be stretching the viewing angle of camera/lenses at the time and, considering that only is part of the total view in the photo, the wideness of the angle would mean quite a wide angle lens for cameras of the day.

I would still go for the feature to the left of the houses being a chimney - it does not seem to taper enough to be the town hall spire and there is a hint of a smoke plume. The two houses are more "face-on" too. Also, is St Leonards on a hill? It (apparently) isn't on Google earth but I'm not sure whether a small hill would register and I have not got an OS map of Ayr.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 11:09:47 by graham.d »

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Offline geo driver

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« Reply #48 on: 27/02/2010 11:23:33 »
reminds me of scotland

loch Tey

i have the feeling that scotland was the first country, and it was sooooooo good that the rest of the world was modeled on it
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #49 on: 27/02/2010 12:14:23 »
A view of Merligen from Faulensee (Switzerland). You are a cruel man, Geezer: the misdirection of mentioning Aberdeen :-) The wriggly local border meant it probably had to be in "old" Europe and the mountains were quite big. The google-earth view of a lake in the sun tended to rule out Scotland.