Can you identify the location?

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Offline RD

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« Reply #50 on: 27/02/2010 13:05:48 »
.[attachment=11459]

If the picture is essentially all the film frame (not cropped) and taken with a modestly wide-angle lens, (say 35mm on 35mm format, or equivalent), then the red line is 0.95o vertically and is about 0.35 the height of the town hall, which is in total “225 feet“, (68.58meters).

So using trig (someone better check) the picture was taken 1447 meters from the town hall, (say +/- 10%),
i.e. you can draw a couple of circles on the map centred on the town hall with radii 1302 meters and 1592 meters,
 and see where the zone between the circles intersects with the beach.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 13:29:30 by RD »

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #51 on: 27/02/2010 13:20:43 »
I think it would have to be sub 28mm focal length on a 35mm camera. Not common in the late 20s or early 30s I don't think. The horinontal frame view-angle is 90 degrees or more.

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Offline LeeE

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« Reply #52 on: 27/02/2010 13:35:22 »
35mm focal length lenses were available for the Leica 2, produced in 1932.
...And its claws are as big as cups, and for some reason it's got a tremendous fear of stamps! And Mrs Doyle was telling me it's got magnets on its tail, so if you're made out of metal it can attach itself to you! And instead of a mouth it's got four arses!

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #53 on: 27/02/2010 13:47:20 »
From Wikipedia..
>>
An example of how lens choice affects angle of view. 
28 mm lens, 65.5° × 46.4° 
50 mm lens, 39.6° × 27.0°
 
70 mm lens, 28.9° × 19.5° 
210 mm lens, 9.8° × 6.5°
>>

A 90 degree angle would require an 18mm lens!!

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Offline RD

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« Reply #54 on: 27/02/2010 15:03:50 »
... you can draw a couple of circles on the map centred on the town hall with radii 1302 meters and 1592 meters,
 and see where the zone between the circles intersects with the beach.

[attachment=11467]

The grey thing top right is part of the runway of Prestwick airport, which according to wikipedia was built "around 1934" so perhaps the plane on the beach was an emergency landing, if there was an airport 5km away, which may explain why the picture was taken. 
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 17:20:12 by RD »

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #55 on: 27/02/2010 18:03:44 »
It is quite a wide angle shot. I've no idea who took it, but it was most likely my dad. I can remember his old camera, but not the make. It was one of the ones where pull out the lens on a bellows. Nothing very exotic.

Perhaps it was taken from quite far out? The tide goes out a long way there. BTW, my dad's family lived in Irvine which is just up the coast.

I have some more details from my brother. I'll post them in a bit.

If anyone is losing sleep over the location of the other photo, send me a PM and I'll put you out of your misery  [:D]
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Offline RD

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« Reply #56 on: 27/02/2010 18:41:50 »
Your estimate for the camera position is just in my red zone (based on modest wide-angle lens) ...

[attachment=11469]

 
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 18:45:10 by RD »

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #57 on: 27/02/2010 19:25:03 »
Geezer, I already answered the second location question and I think I was right. Are you ignoring all my hard work?

I can't believe the wide angle is 90 degrees. It would be distorted. It has to be wrong.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #58 on: 27/02/2010 19:41:42 »
Geezer, I already answered the second location question and I think I was right. Are you ignoring all my hard work?

I can't believe the wide angle is 90 degrees. It would be distorted. It has to be wrong.

[;D] Graham, I'm not intentionally trying to tick you off.

Stay tuned

Yup! Dead right!

I was expecting to see Lake Thun in the answer. You were too specific!

How did you do it Graham?
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 19:50:37 by Geezer »
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Offline RD

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« Reply #59 on: 27/02/2010 20:07:16 »
Here's the colour picture I got direct from the Geezer hotline ...

[attachment=11471]

Definitely not a chimney.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 20:13:47 by RD »

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #60 on: 27/02/2010 20:07:46 »
Elementary my dear Watson :-)

The google image was key. Your photo with the clouds (and the mention of Aberdeen) were shown to be misleading with the blue water and sky in the google image (for once not taken at dawn). The regional wiggly border implied it was somewhere that defined their borders when fine detail was importent. These things pointed to somewhere in old Europe and not Scotland and probably not Scandinavia. The mountains were significant so I thought of the Italian lakes to start then moved over to Austria, Switzerland, Southern Germany. There are not that many lakes near big mountains so it took about 30 minutes. I was probably a bit lucky too.

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #61 on: 27/02/2010 20:15:42 »
No, RD can't be right. No schoolboy or aeroplane in the pic :-)

OK, I give in. How did they get a 90 degree view angle on the pic?

Geezer, did you have this pic all the time? Tut tut!

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Offline RD

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« Reply #62 on: 27/02/2010 20:22:12 »
How did they get a 90 degree view angle on the pic?

Geezer's erroneous inclusion of "St Leonard's church" is what's giving you the idea that it's a 90o field of view.
I estimate the horizontal field of view in the full monochrome image is about 55o.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 20:28:45 by RD »

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #63 on: 27/02/2010 20:25:46 »
Perhaps it's not St Leonards church. This may work better, in which case, the camera position would be a bit further South.

[attachment=11473]
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #64 on: 27/02/2010 20:32:11 »
Elementary my dear Watson :-)

The google image was key. Your photo with the clouds (and the mention of Aberdeen) were shown to be misleading with the blue water and sky in the google image (for once not taken at dawn). The regional wiggly border implied it was somewhere that defined their borders when fine detail was importent. These things pointed to somewhere in old Europe and not Scotland and probably not Scandinavia. The mountains were significant so I thought of the Italian lakes to start then moved over to Austria, Switzerland, Southern Germany. There are not that many lakes near big mountains so it took about 30 minutes. I was probably a bit lucky too.

I suppose if you had just posted the same image from Google, we'd know you were right but the location would remain unknown to others, but maybe that's taking things a bit too far.
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #65 on: 27/02/2010 20:36:19 »


Geezer, did you have this pic all the time? Tut tut!

About the same time as I posted that my brother had figured out it was Ayr. It's such a pain posting images on TNS that I decided to dump the whole lot on RD to see if he could make sense of all of it.
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Offline RD

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« Reply #66 on: 27/02/2010 20:42:00 »
Before you posted the new suspect church I was about to say that the bearing of mystery spire is 30o East of the town hall...

[attachment=11475]

Spot on.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 20:47:33 by RD »

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #67 on: 27/02/2010 20:46:34 »
I suspect the apparent hill under the spire is all the trees in that area.
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #68 on: 27/02/2010 21:03:21 »
Did your brother go there to take the photo? It lines up well. If it is this other church we see, although that explains away the large view angle, it does seem too close to the right hand building to fit with the original. Is it possible to find a camera position that is consistent with this?

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #69 on: 27/02/2010 21:13:29 »
Did your brother go there to take the photo?

I'm not sure how he got them. Perhaps he got a friend to take them. I'm reasonably sure he didn't make a trip from Aberdeen to Ayr.

I think there is quite a lot of wiggle room in the camera position. It's also possible I'm missing another church, or that one was demolished, although that's pretty unlikely. Some bombs did fall on Scotland during WW2, but I don't remember hearing about that any came down on Ayr.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 21:58:17 by Geezer »
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Offline RD

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« Reply #70 on: 27/02/2010 21:38:22 »
Did your brother go there to take the photo?

I'm not sure how he got them.


Here are the links which were attached to the photos from the Geezer hotline ...
http://www.ruleworks.co.uk/Ayrshire/wellington-school.asp
http://www.197aerial.co.uk/ayr_wellington_school.htm

As well as Googling, Geezer brother did manage to squeeze out some more detail second time around ...

[attachment=11477]
« Last Edit: 27/02/2010 22:14:06 by RD »

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #71 on: 27/02/2010 22:14:46 »
Here's another one. Not too difficult I think.

[attachment=11479]
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #72 on: 27/02/2010 22:22:03 »
Here are the links which were attached to the photos from the Geezer hotline ...
http://www.ruleworks.co.uk/Ayrshire/wellington-school.asp
http://www.197aerial.co.uk/ayr_wellington_school.htm

As well as Googling, Geezer brother did manage to squeeze out some more detail second time around ...


It looks like that might be our spire in the top left corner of the second photo from 197aerial site.
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #73 on: 27/02/2010 23:58:50 »
It looks like Geezer's brother did a good job of finding relevent pics on the internet. It's very hard to find a site with just the right pics so amazingly well done. The higher res pics would have been a help too. It is certainly much clearer that the it is the town hall spire.

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #74 on: 28/02/2010 00:21:59 »
Not much to narrow this one down. I'd hazard a guess at Priest Lake.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #75 on: 28/02/2010 01:09:58 »
Not much to narrow this one down. I'd hazard a guess at Priest Lake.

You know, it does look a bit like Priest Lake. That mountain in the distance is a good bit taller than the ones near Priest Lake.
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #76 on: 28/02/2010 01:23:22 »
It looks like Geezer's brother did a good job of finding relevent pics on the internet. It's very hard to find a site with just the right pics so amazingly well done. The higher res pics would have been a help too. It is certainly much clearer that the it is the town hall spire.

The Geezer brother in unencumbered by domestic authorities.
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #77 on: 11/03/2010 03:01:52 »
I'm sure nobody actually gives gives a carp the suspense has been intolerable, so I thought it best to come clean.

It's in Montana - Lake MacDonald in Glacier National Park.
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #78 on: 11/03/2010 08:54:25 »
There you go spoiling all the fun :-)

Actually that was far too hard without any external clues. Finding a random lake with a mountain is pretty difficult and this time there was no extra clues (like a boundary mark). Even the name on the boat was unreadable. I guessed it might be somewhere near the Selkirk mountains - well at least it was in the US.

It was interesting and challenging trying to find info on the Ayr photo because it might have had some importence or relevance to you or your family. And the Swiss site was just a challenge. Perhaps you should try to see if some newspaper would run a competition along this line. It's better than spot-the-ball.

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Offline LeeE

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« Reply #79 on: 11/03/2010 15:39:42 »
Does anyone recognise this place?

(Photo snaffled from the web)

...And its claws are as big as cups, and for some reason it's got a tremendous fear of stamps! And Mrs Doyle was telling me it's got magnets on its tail, so if you're made out of metal it can attach itself to you! And instead of a mouth it's got four arses!

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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #80 on: 11/03/2010 17:18:58 »
Too easy. It's Coire Mhic Fearchair Ben Eighe.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #81 on: 11/03/2010 20:20:07 »
Ah! Torridon is a wonderful place.
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Offline LeeE

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« Reply #82 on: 11/03/2010 23:33:56 »
Absolutely correct.  I guess those triple buttresses are just too easily recognisable.  I had to camp up there one December night and the only bit of flat 'ground' that I could put the tent up on was the frozen run-off from the lake.
...And its claws are as big as cups, and for some reason it's got a tremendous fear of stamps! And Mrs Doyle was telling me it's got magnets on its tail, so if you're made out of metal it can attach itself to you! And instead of a mouth it's got four arses!

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #83 on: 12/03/2010 04:48:24 »
I had to camp up there one December night


Good grief! I hope you had a good sleeping bag.

Dangerous place Scotland. The weather in the mountains can change from delightful to deadly in no time at all. It scares me to watch parents taking young children up mountains like Ben Lomond as if they were going for a walk in the park.
« Last Edit: 12/03/2010 04:57:36 by Geezer »
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #84 on: 12/03/2010 05:40:31 »
No prizes for guessing where this is. It's in Irvine, Scotland. My grandparents had a dairy there, and the horse (called Snowball, naturally) pulled the milk float. The three gents are my uncles and my dad, who was the oldest, was the photographer.

The only reason I posted this one is because I find it fascinating that this shot was taken at least eighty years ago. Uncle Andrew, who is holding Snowball, looks as if he could have stepped off the street a couple of weeks ago. I suppose men's fashions have not really changed much.


[attachment=11551]
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Offline graham.d

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« Reply #85 on: 12/03/2010 10:17:36 »
The two lads on the horse don't look too happy. You are absolutely right about the style of your uncle. Timeless.

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Offline LeeE

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« Reply #86 on: 12/03/2010 16:07:07 »
I had to camp up there one December night

Good grief! I hope you had a good sleeping bag.

Oh yes, most definitely.  It was snowing only moderately when my pal and I put the tent up but it turned into a bit of a blizzard in the night i.e. from about 16:30/17:00 onwards.  It was also the site of the most challenging tom-tit I ever had too, as I had to put on my gortexes and crampons before venturing out into the dark, wind and snow, and then take careful aim whilst only exposing the bare minimum.  Lol - even just handling the loo-paper was a challenge.

That wasn't the coldest night we had on that trip through: on our way back home we camped beside Loch Ness and when we woke up to a bright and clear morning the insides of the tent were coated with ice, formed from the moisture in our breath as we slept, and similarly, the evaporated moisture from our bodies had frozen into lots of little ice balls on the outside of our sleeping bags.

The great thing about winter hill walking though, is that you don't have to worry about mud too much, as it's all frozen solid, and to clean your cooking pans, you just fill them with water and then chip it all out with your ice axe once it's frozen - much easier than trying to wash them in cold water and without detergent.  Oh yes, and no midges either: another great bonus [;D]
...And its claws are as big as cups, and for some reason it's got a tremendous fear of stamps! And Mrs Doyle was telling me it's got magnets on its tail, so if you're made out of metal it can attach itself to you! And instead of a mouth it's got four arses!

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #87 on: 12/03/2010 22:03:20 »
The two lads on the horse don't look too happy.


They do look a bit ticked off, don't they. They probably got fed up sitting there while my dad messed around with his camera. Perhaps it was because old Snowball had major "outgassing".

Come to think of it, my dad was into home movies (9.5 mm) and on one occasion he had us all parading up and down for ages in the gardens at Hampton Court while he recorded the remarkable event.

I think my mother finally told him to knock it off!
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.