Brave guy; I wonder if he works for a Danish newspaper...?

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Offline chris

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« Last Edit: 21/07/2010 22:39:06 by chris »
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Offline neilep

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Google translates this bit above the viewer:

אהבת? באפשרותך לקבל מיילים בנושאים שמעניינים אותך ישירות לתיבת הדואר שלך, לחץ כאן כדי להירשם
תגובה בריטית לדרישות האיסלאם באירופה- מעניין!!



as

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British response to the demands of Islam in Europe - interesting!"
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Offline peppercorn

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Brave is one word.  Ignorant is another.

Apparently, (his words in one video) "their [Islamic] religion murdered hundreds of people on 9/11".

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Offline chris

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Brave is one word.  Ignorant is another.

Apparently, (his words in one video) "their [Islamic] religion murdered hundreds of people on 9/11".


Yeah, you're right, I think the number was actually thousands.
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Offline RD

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Brave guy; I wonder if he works for a Danish newspaper...?
« Reply #4 on: 22/07/2010 02:23:08 »
Mr Condell is an equal-oppertunity blasphemer: he has a go at Christianity too ... http://il.youtube.com/user/patcondell#p/a/u/1/eBrmH2pCmyM

[ I doubt he'll be queuing up to see The Pope in September ]

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Offline JimBob

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Brave guy; I wonder if he works for a Danish newspaper...?
« Reply #5 on: 22/07/2010 03:32:51 »
Brave is one word.  Ignorant is another.

Apparently, (his words in one video) "their [Islamic] religion murdered hundreds of people on 9/11".


Lets get something straight here. We of Europe and America are woefully ignorant of the rest of the world. Being Muslim does not make one a terrorist. A radical sect within Wahhabism, makes one a terrorist. (Wahhabism, itself only originating in the late 1800's - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi) This terrorist philosophy is a radical Muslim Cult, very similar in philosophical nature to the philosophy of the Nazis that most people who are Christian abhor.

All Christians are not not Nazi or Catholic or Anglican or Pentecostal.  Nor are all Muslim terrorist.

IMHO, painting any one religion - or lack of one - with a broad brush is just uninformed bigotry.

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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Offline demografx

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Brave guy; I wonder if he works for a Danish newspaper...?
« Reply #6 on: 22/07/2010 03:36:23 »

I'm 100% with you, JimBob.

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Offline chris

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Brave guy; I wonder if he works for a Danish newspaper...?
« Reply #7 on: 22/07/2010 11:16:27 »
What is the view of people about the World Trade Centre site mosque proposal?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7731852/Ground-Zero-mosque-plan-angers-New-Yorkers.html

The intention is to better interface islam and the US.

Chris
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Offline peppercorn

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Brave guy; I wonder if he works for a Danish newspaper...?
« Reply #8 on: 22/07/2010 14:10:34 »
Brave is one word.  Ignorant is another.

Apparently, (his words in one video) "their [Islamic] religion murdered hundreds of people on 9/11".

Lets get something straight here. We of Europe and America are woefully ignorant of the rest of the world. Being Muslim does not make one a terrorist. A radical sect within Wahhabism, makes one a terrorist. (Wahhabism, itself only originating in the late 1800's - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi) This terrorist philosophy is a radical Muslim Cult, very similar in philosophical nature to the philosophy of the Nazis that most people who are Christian abhor.

All Christians are not not Nazi or Catholic or Anglican or Pentecostal.  Nor are all Muslim terrorist.
IMHO, painting any one religion - or lack of one - with a broad brush is just uninformed bigotry.

That's kind'a the point I was trying to make.


What is the view of people about the World Trade Centre site mosque proposal?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7731852/Ground-Zero-mosque-plan-angers-New-Yorkers.html

Agreed, building a mosque within a stones throw of the twin towers site doesn't seem particularly bright, but comparing it to idea to 'building a German cultural centre at Auschwitz' is hardly a fair comparison.
More like building a cathedral at Antioch after the Crusades. Perhaps, less so as most people back in England supported the Crusades.
« Last Edit: 22/07/2010 15:00:59 by peppercorn »

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #9 on: 22/07/2010 16:15:00 »
See! This is why, if it were up to me, all religions would be proscribed. They only serve to pit humans against other humans, and it always ends up in a fight that nobody can win.

When I establish my colony on the planet Pikemagnus Alpha, there will only be one deity - bet you can't guess who  [:0]
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline omid

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« Reply #10 on: 22/07/2010 17:20:22 »
Brave is one word.  Ignorant is another.

Apparently, (his words in one video) "their [Islamic] religion murdered hundreds of people on 9/11".

Yeah, you're right, I think the number was actually thousands.

yh, cz of some ignorant Muslims thousands died in 9/11 and cz of other ignorant people millions died in countries like Afghanistan & Iraq and yet none of them give up
« Last Edit: 22/07/2010 17:24:05 by omid »

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Offline omid

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« Reply #11 on: 22/07/2010 17:21:49 »
See! This is why, if it were up to me, all religions would be proscribed. They only serve to pit humans against other humans, and it always ends up in a fight that nobody can win.

Thank you Geezer
omid completely agrees with you

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Offline imatfaal

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Brave guy; I wonder if he works for a Danish newspaper...?
« Reply #12 on: 22/07/2010 17:51:10 »
When I establish my colony on the planet Pikemagnus Alpha, there will only be one deity - bet you can't guess who  [:0]

Mrs Geezer?
There’s no sense in being precise when you don’t even know what you’re talking about.  John Von Neumann

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #13 on: 22/07/2010 17:53:26 »
When I establish my colony on the planet Pikemagnus Alpha, there will only be one deity - bet you can't guess who  [:0]

Mrs Geezer?

Omid got it!
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #14 on: 22/07/2010 18:11:17 »
I do a lot of work in schools with children and teachers on the dangers of stereotyping. I show pictures of 15 people and ask the children to decide who they think is famous or infamous for doing or being certain things. When I ask "who is the terrorist?" they always pick the Muslim man. The picture I use is of Cat Stephens or Yusef Islam as he is now. The real one is a white male (Soho Bomber.) I ask them "who is a member of a violent extremist group?" They pick a young Muslim man when the real one is Senator Byrd. There are many more examples but they always stereotype and they are really shocked when I reveal the correct person.

I think the fact that many Muslim people were killed in the twin towers means that a Mosque near the site is perfectly exceptable. It is time we all work together to solve the problems of extremism otherwise we just fan the flames.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Offline chris

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« Reply #15 on: 22/07/2010 19:30:32 »
Make it Lady, when I see a church go up in Saudi, I'll agree with you...
I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception - Groucho Marx

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #16 on: 22/07/2010 19:40:23 »
Saudi is quite extreme!
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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #17 on: 22/07/2010 19:46:50 »
Coming soon to an Islamic country near you!
http://islam.about.com/od/saudiarabia/i/ksachurch.htm
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Offline JimBob

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« Reply #18 on: 22/07/2010 20:19:25 »
Please  - learn about the issues. Even in Saudi Arabia people are able to worship privately another religion. In all other countries that I am are of other faiths openly co-exist IN PUBLIC WORSHIP within the Muslim community.

Two other faiths are specifically mentioned in the Qur'an as "People of the Book." These are Judaism and Christianity. As the precursors of the Muslim faith, all, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, are derived from the monotheistic faith of Abraham.

People of the Book who are non-Muslim living in a dominantly Muslim society are called "dhimmi" and are protected under Sharia law.

The less tolerant stance of the Saudi Wahhabist is the exception, not the rule, in Muslim countries.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #19 on: 22/07/2010 21:48:28 »
This what my link says JimBob.
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Offline chris

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« Reply #20 on: 22/07/2010 22:28:14 »
I think the key point is in the first line of that article: "[Islam is]...the only [religion] permitted to be worshipped publicly."

Maybe I'm getting this wrong, but that doesn't sound very tolerant and accepting of other faiths does it?

And with this in mind one must then ask where the money is coming from to fund this new "cultural centre" in New York, akin to the "mega mosque" that had been proposed for London's east end? Answer to both...Saudi Arabia.

In other words, the same country that won't let any other religions be practised publicly except Islam (and are considered "extreme" by some, requoting the phrase used above) is also bank-rolling this New York "Cardoba House" initiative.

Now maybe I'm being naive, but is no one at all uncomfortable with that? Does no one think that at least some more questions ought to be asked first?

Because usually when someone pays for something - including a $100 million building - there are strings attached.

Or am I seeing smoke with no fire?
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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #21 on: 22/07/2010 23:15:44 »
I think if we keep showing tolerance eg. not banning the Bhurka in the UK, then eventually you will wear down the Saudi leadership. I hope the Church will be built in Saudi and I hope some of the laws concerning women are slackened in Saudi, but we won't get anywhere with diplomacy if we don't model the behaviour we want from others. If the Saudis are pay rolling these mega mosques then we need to remind them of our tolerance not stop them from doing it.   
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Offline chris

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« Reply #22 on: 23/07/2010 21:54:25 »
If a regime won't tolerate letting their own women wear the same clothing as men without being called a whore and stoned to death, or allow people to follow whatever religion they chose, despite the example set by the rest of the world for decades, it seems very optimistic to presume that they'll suddenly evolve into tolerant types because we welcome the erection of another mosque sited in a very poignant place and opened at a very poignant time.

In fact, rather than displaying any trace of tolerance, this instead smacks of bloody mindedness and a complete disregard for the feelings of others.
I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception - Groucho Marx

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #23 on: 23/07/2010 22:08:13 »
If a regime won't tolerate letting their own women wear the same clothing as men without being called a whore and stoned to death, or allow people to follow whatever religion they chose, despite the example set by the rest of the world for decades, it seems very optimistic to presume that they'll suddenly evolve into tolerant types because we welcome the erection of another mosque sited in a very poignant place and opened at a very poignant time.

In fact, rather than displaying any trace of tolerance, this instead smacks of bloody mindedness and a complete disregard for the feelings of others.


I agree. This is simply pissing on the graves of the people who died on 9/11, and they know it full well. If they had any compassion, they would not even consider such a scheme.

(I am slightly biased of course because, only by luck, I was not blown up by the bomb at the WTC in 1993.)
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline omid

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« Reply #24 on: 24/07/2010 12:00:08 »
Make it Lady, when I see a church go up in Saudi, I'll agree with you...

Forget a Church they don't even allow a non-Muslim to even step in, in the Holy city of Makkah.
it used to be the Capital of Suadi but becuase of the visit of non-Muslims leaders from rest of the world they changed the Capital to Riyadh because they just couldn't afford a non-Muslim in the Holy city of Makkah.
« Last Edit: 24/07/2010 13:06:32 by omid »

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Offline omid

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« Reply #25 on: 24/07/2010 12:26:43 »
Now maybe I'm being naive, but is no one at all uncomfortable with that? Does no one think that at least some more questions ought to be asked first?

Maybe they want to cover-up the injustice Americans did to innocent Muslims on the name of terrorism

Quote
Boasting a mosque with sports facilities, a theatre and possibly day care, the centre would be open to all visitors to demonstrate that Muslims are part of their community, not some separate element.
« Last Edit: 24/07/2010 12:32:39 by omid »

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Offline omid

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« Reply #26 on: 24/07/2010 12:53:09 »
If a regime won't tolerate letting their own women wear the same clothing as men without being called a whore and stoned to death,

its NOT the religion that make people do all this, it certainly is NOT.

It's humans psychology that make them do unfair if they're in power, its just different people use different excuses for it (e.g race, gender, religion etc).

because, only by luck, I was not blown up by the bomb at the WTC in 1993.)

omid is one of the lucky survivals from 9/11 [;D]

The right shoulder still hurts *ouch* [:-'(]
« Last Edit: 01/08/2010 11:32:21 by omid »

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #27 on: 24/07/2010 20:35:49 »
Omid, are you Muslim?

Also Omid, I'm glad you are still here and I suppose Geezer as well!
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #28 on: 24/07/2010 20:38:57 »
and I suppose Geezer as well!

Thanks a lot!  [;D]
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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #29 on: 26/07/2010 00:29:46 »
omid is one of the lucky survivals from 9/11 [;D]
The right shoulder still hurts *ouch* [:-'(]

OMG. You were there on 9/11 *for real* ???  [:(]

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #30 on: 26/07/2010 05:24:55 »
omid is one of the lucky survivals from 9/11 [;D]
The right shoulder still hurts *ouch* [:-'(]

OMG. You were there on 9/11 *for real* ???  [:(]

Omid, who were you working for then?
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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #31 on: 26/07/2010 14:04:15 »
I am slightly biased of course because, only by luck, I was not blown up by the bomb at the WTC in 1993.

Shesh, Geezer! That sounds unbelievably scary!  [>:(]

omid is one of the lucky survivals from 9/11 [;D]
The right shoulder still hurts *ouch* [:-'(]

OMG. You were there on 9/11 *for real* ???  [:(]

Omid, who were you working for then?

I'm guessing working for no-one at 9 yrs old!
A family visit, perhaps?
« Last Edit: 26/07/2010 14:09:41 by peppercorn »

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Offline omid

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« Reply #32 on: 26/07/2010 14:24:19 »
OMG. You were there on 9/11 *for real* ???  [:(]

Yes, omid was there and suffered a very painful injury

Omid, who were you working for then?

well, omid'd be lying if omid says that omid was working for someone cz omid was only nine, omid went to see grand parents and lost granny in that inccident.
omid was laying in hospital for three days and grandpa was looking for omid in dead bodies.

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Offline omid

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« Reply #33 on: 26/07/2010 14:25:56 »
Omid, are you Muslim?

YES, a very proud one [:)]

Omid, I'm glad you are still here

Thank you [;D]

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #34 on: 26/07/2010 16:47:27 »
Chris, you have gone very quiet. I think a rest my case. 9/11 and other terrorist incedents changes the lives of so many different people, no matter what their nationality, religion or politics. We have to behave with dignity in the aftermath and try to find better outcomes for the future. 
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #35 on: 26/07/2010 18:02:38 »

well, omid'd be lying if omid says that omid was working for someone cz omid was only nine, omid went to see grand parents and lost granny in that inccident.
omid was laying in hospital for three days and grandpa was looking for omid in dead bodies.
 

Omid - what were you doing at the WTC that day?
There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #36 on: 26/07/2010 18:30:19 »
I am slightly biased of course because, only by luck, I was not blown up by the bomb at the WTC in 1993.

Shesh, Geezer! That sounds unbelievably scary!  [>:(]


The strange thing is it didn't strike me as being all that scary at the time. I sort of believed that there was no way the towers could have been brought down by a bomb. It turns out it was somethinng of a fluke that one of them didn't come down.
« Last Edit: 26/07/2010 19:13:34 by Geezer »
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Offline omid

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« Reply #37 on: 26/07/2010 19:18:10 »
Omid - what were you doing at the WTC that day?

omid's granny wanted to see a friend who used to work there.

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #38 on: 26/07/2010 20:10:21 »
Sorry about Gran.
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #39 on: 26/07/2010 20:36:21 »

omid's granny wanted to see a friend who used to work there.
 

That must have left you with some very unpleasant memories. No child should have to experience something as horrific as that. I still get the creeps when I think about what happened that day.
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #40 on: 29/07/2010 05:38:28 »

Maybe they want to cover-up the injustice Americans did to innocent Muslims on the name of terrorism


Sounds to me like you are defending any actions that Muslims take against Americans to protect Islam. Islamic adherents were quite prepared to blow me to Hell, and they nearly did. They also killed your Grandmother in the name of Islam.

America is not anti-Islamic, but it's very clear that Islam is utterly anti-American, despite the fact that America has opened it's doors to people of all religions.

Are you thinking with your own views, or are you believing the hatred that others are instilling in you? There is a very a big difference.
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Offline omid

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« Reply #41 on: 29/07/2010 14:33:47 »
Geezer, please quote where omid mentioned that omid defending wrong actions taken by Muslims?????????




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Offline omid

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« Reply #42 on: 29/07/2010 14:39:32 »
America is not anti-Islamic, but it's very clear that Islam is utterly anti-American

Sorry Geezer but you can't judge a car by its driver.
Islam is never against America nor is every Muslim and in order to know this you've to study and understand the Holy Quran only then will you be able to make the right decision about Islam.

omid've done a whole of 3 years of research about religions and know each n everything about most of the religions in the world.

omid'd have loved it if they could have caught the master minds of the 9/11


Hang on.....omid got something to show you to prove omid's point, just give omid a sec please.......................................
« Last Edit: 29/07/2010 15:01:00 by omid »

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Offline omid

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« Reply #43 on: 29/07/2010 14:47:35 »
YES here omid got it.

now look at the pic below,

[attachment=12532]


Now, can you see a Muslim old man serving green tea to two American soldiers to help them do their job, do you see omid's point now?

Every Muslim is NOT anti-America
« Last Edit: 29/07/2010 15:38:02 by omid »

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #44 on: 29/07/2010 15:50:51 »
Just to give the guy his credit - this photo is credited to AP Photo/Rafiq Maqbool.

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Offline JimBob

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« Reply #45 on: 29/07/2010 20:32:28 »
Geezer, my friend, I have for much of my life studied comparative religion. As a result I am completely familiar with the Muslim religion. As with all religions, there are philosophical divisions between different sects. Sunni and Sh'ia, Eastern & Western Catholic, Vedantism and Shavism, Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism, etc.

A person committing terrorist acts can be compared to the Jewish residents of Palestine in the '50's who blew to hell half of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, and committed other atrocities against the British. We forget about that and in general attribute it to growing pains of the state of Israel,. On the other hand, we then  condemn Muslim terrorism with little understanding of the "causes" that brought it about. In both cases, the arrogance and total lack of attempting to understand the local culture by the British and since WW II, the Americans, can be squarely blamed for the root causes of terrorism. Wahhabism, the religious underpinnings of the present terrorists, is a radical philosophy born out of a reaction to the self-serving, Muslim-deprecating nature of the British rule in Egypt in the late 1800's.

If someone slights you, diminishes you by considering you inferior, Carves up you world by using a ruler to draw straight lines on a map (the Treaty of Sèvres,) then - without thinking - most persons will retaliate, even if the slight is not perceived by the person who inflicts that slight. This on very, very  limited occasions results in retaliation through terrorism. And the Jews were the ones who reintroduced this tactic to the modern world.

We cannot single out one form of religious-backed terrorism in a multidimensional philosophical and theological culture and and condemn it - thereby damning the whole religious framework of a whole people. That is simply not reality. Only a very small majority of the Muslim world is Wahhabists, probably less than the percentage of the Christian world who are Jehovah's Witnesses. And they are considered by most of the Arab world as we of the "Christian" world consider Jehovah's Witnesses - part of a fringe group. I would doubt any western person with a Christian upbringing would stand still to be painted by the brush of being considered a Jehovah's Witness. All "Christians" are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses as all Muslims are not Wahhabists

POLITICALLY there is support, in Pakistan and in Saudi Arabia (the home of Wahhabism). Only in Saudi is there also fierce religious support. In the rest of the Muslim world, what support is given by Pakistan and Iran is purely for political gain or expediency, usually the later. Iran uses it to recreate the Persian Empire and justify a dictatorship of ego driven Mullahs and their associates; Pakistan uses it to try to keep the country from tearing itself apart at the seams.

In the end analysis terrorism is the fault of British and their allies before, during and after WW I. Had the promises made to the Saudi's by the British via T. E. Lawrence been kept, we would not be in the place we are currently in.
 
All of this said, I am NOT in any way condoning terror. I think it is despicable. But terroism will never stop until the west stops blaming all Muslims for the actions of a few and treats the whole of the Muslim world with respect and understanding of their culture, traditions and philosophies.

The solution can only be found by isolating the infection an excising it and those who espouse it from the universus somes of Muslim society.
« Last Edit: 29/07/2010 20:37:38 by JimBob »
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #46 on: 29/07/2010 23:36:15 »
Geezer, please quote where omid mentioned that omid defending wrong actions taken by Muslims?????????





Omid,

You state that Americans have done injustices towards innocent Muslims. That's a very sweeping statement, and it implies that you think Americans are prejudiced against Muslims. That is simply not true, but it's typical of so much of the rhetoric that is used by those who want to incite hatred and violence.

There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #47 on: 29/07/2010 23:50:38 »
Omid,

I did not say all Muslims are anti-American. I have some good friends who are Muslims. What I said was Islam is anti-American.

If it's a religion of great compassion and tolerance, why don't we see massive demonstrations by Muslims against the terrorists who have taken over Islam to further their political ambitions?

I'm sorry, but I really believe many adherents of Islam tacitly support the actions of Islamic terrorists, because, in their minds, the ends justify the means.

There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #48 on: 30/07/2010 00:11:10 »
JimBob,

Of course there were many things that happened in the past that were probably really bad decisions. Frankly, when I was growing up in the UK, I though I would never live in a country that segregrated people by race. But the US recognized that was wrong and it has made big changes. It may still have some way to go, but I've seen enormous progress, even in the time I've been here.

I would agree with you if I saw some serious effort within Islam to erradicate the blight that has infected it. Until that happens, I have to assume that Islam is, by and large, happy with the status quo. If I have that wrong, Islam is doing a very poor PR job.

There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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Offline JimBob

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« Reply #49 on: 30/07/2010 01:39:20 »
Point taken.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein