[thedoc]

This week we find out if a liberal slathering of oil based moisturiser makes up part of our daily calorie quota. Plus we ask, are monitor screens and e.books more than your standard page turner, leaving you tossing and turning and up all night?....
Listen to this Show

or  

If you want to discuss this show, or ask a question, this is the place to do it.

[DoctorBeaver]

That's quite some thought & I look forward to some learned answers & discussion on this. Hopefully some of it will be in language I may be able to follow.

[Soul Surfer (OP)]

I have been doing a little more thinking about the collapse process inside a rotating black hole.

This is how I visualise it.

There will be an initial ellipsoidal  (or maybe discoidal) collapse which will become toroidal as "viscosity" drags the still center out and gives it angular momentum.  As the collapse to a ring continues residual angular momenum about the ring will cause it to rotate like a smoke ring and again the residual still centre of the torus will be evacuated. so the final stucture is a rotating toroidal membrane which allows residual angular momentum in all dimensions to be accommadated

Does anyone have information on the gravitational fields of toroidal objects or toroidal membranes?

Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

[ukmicky]

Sorry Ian but your just to damn clever for most of us.

The most most of us can do in response to your question is smile. We've got more chance of being  travoltered by a beam of light from space(What was that film) than helping you on this one .[]


Even so it's great having you on the forum answering our question's.



Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    

[Soul Surfer (OP)]

I appreciate that not many of the contibutors to this page are likely to have the knowledge and experience to help directly but they do get around the web a lot like me and the more eyes looking for a useful site where I can get more information or pose this question to a real expert the more likely I am to find one.

The administrators of this site also have reasonably current contacts into the university and may be able to introduce me to someone who is an expert who is interested in this question.

Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

[johntsang]

I find your topic very interesting, and in fact offer quite a different insight of how to view the space time, the points you stated are valid !

Please post more.

[johntsang]

Tell me, use your super-computer.... your brain ....

What if two such ring universes interact when they are close by ?

John Tsang

[neilep]

Ian, I know you probably winced in pain when you saw that I had replied here but it's only to echo Eths and Michaels sentiments.....I've tried to keep well away from this thread.....we need GSMOLLIN and SOLVAY on this one.


Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!

[Soul Surfer (OP)]

Two ring singularities will occasionally clash as two rotating black holes merge there could well be a sequence of such clashes as the merge.  what might happen could be similar to some of the brane based cosmologies where the big bang came from a mentary clash of two multidimensinal membranes.

Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

[johntsang]

How about the direction of rotation, what happen if one of it is up and the other is down, and getting close by, would they expulse each other in some form ?

[ukmicky]

I would love to see what would happen if two evenly matched blackholes colided with each other head on at speed. Could a singularity be destroyed and spew its guts into space

Michael

[Soul Surfer (OP)]

No they should just form a bigger black hole any spectacular stuff will be hidden behind the event horizon

Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

[johntsang]

Is there any configuration of materail structure, in any form of rotation would create an expulsion effect?

I would guess things link Saturn ring would create somewhat a repulsion  effect on another planet with a reverse turning ring, say distributed more evenly in great space arount the planet ...

And rotating torus BH may be ?

[johntsang]

And I suspect a rotation Hole would have a draft in gravitation , more or less in spiral form around it's surrounding space that any matter getting close would be dragged 'sideway' while it more down the hole.

Moreover, if tow such hole gstting together, and it's rotation axis is reverse, the effect should be more fun than just dropping into each others .....

[Soul Surfer (OP)]

The centrifugal force that comes from the angular momenum and the attracrion due to gravity is the expulsion effect but it is exactly baanved over the orbit.

Kook up Kerr black holes for more details of the standard theories.  what I am talking about does not go against these in any way it just looks in much more detail at the process of the material that is collapsing towards forming the singularity as it collapses over a signoficant period of time

Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

[johntsang]

I should clarify my question, the ditribution of material in space around the hole, carries energy, in the form of angular momentum, could be exchange while the two hole / celestrial body approaching, in case of dense distribution, and when the bodies are quite far from each others.

Could there be a point when this exchange overcome the gravitaion ?

[johntsang]

Of course, I should carry out some calculation to find out.

However in space observation, when two spiral galacy collide,  would they pass thru each others directly without any effect of expulsion ? I shall take a look.

[johntsang]

Sorry to post some quote here, could be related: universetoday.com/am/publish/podcast_galactic_exiles.html?2712006

Dr. Warren Brown: What we discovered are two stars in the far out regions of the Milky Way that are traveling at speeds that no one has ever really seen stars in our galaxy, at least stars outside of the galactic centre. Except that these stars are hundreds of thousands of light years away from the galactic centre. And yet, the only plausible explanation for their velocity is that they were ejected by the supermassive black hole at the centre of the galaxy.

Fraser: So they strayed too close to the supermassive black hole and were kind of kicked out?

Brown: Yeah, so here's the picture. This scenario requires three bodies, and astronomers say that the most likely way that it happened is if you have a pair of stars. As you may be aware, something like half the stars in the sky are actually systems containing a pair, or sometimes more stars. And so if you have a tightly bound pair of stars that, for some reason, travel too close to the supermassive black hole, at some point the black hole's gravity will exceed the binding energy between the pair of stars and rip one of those stars away. It'll capture the one star, but the other star then leaves the system with the orbital energy of the pair. And that's how you get this extra boost of velocity. It's that the supermassive black hole is basically able to unbind one star, capture it, and leave the other one with the entire amount of energy that the pair used to have. And that star then gets ejected right out of the galaxy.

[tony6789]

You lost me at about the fourth paragraph soul can u simplify it pls?

- Big T

[johntsang]

basically what it means is , due to the conservation of angular momentum, when a particle drops further into a Gravitation center, then some other particle must eject outward, and generate a repulsion effect.