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quote:Originally posted by geckosince most famous atheists are more well spoken than me- heres a neat list of quotes i found.http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/viewquotes.phpmy favorite is "if atheism is a religion, than not playing cards is a hobby"this resonates with me, because a real atheist(rather than just a fallen-from-faith faux atheist, like so many are) doesnt walk the earth thinking about how god doesnt exist all the time, he doesnt pray to science. its not compareable to religion. he thinks about actual life, love, and other observable things instead. hes not plagued by god whatsoever- he doesnt even think about it!what freedom!anyway, i hope that shows some perspective for you blind-faithers.
quote:Originally posted by another_someoneYes, the term “Religion is the opium of the people” is a quote so well known that it has become almost cliché.
quote:Originally posted by ejirolove30Humans were created 6000 yrs ago.
quote:Originally posted by tony6789SO i guess no 1 will really know till they die huh?
quote:Originally posted by rcoyle13Listen: God is real.Or do you not see and feel the Sun. I suppose this worldis simply chance? Evolution by Chance. Not a very strong argument.
quote:Originally posted by Mjhavokquote:Originally posted by rcoyle13Listen: God is real.Or do you not see and feel the Sun. I suppose this worldis simply chance? Evolution by Chance. Not a very strong argument.I see the sun because of rods and cones in the retina of my eye which link to the optic nerve and then to the occiptal lobe which deals with the information, thus I see an image. I feel the sun because of heat receptors in my skin which once again transmit information to the brain.You saying evolution by chance is not a very strong argument just proves you know absolutely nothing about evolution. Read the origin of species a few times and don't just listen to intelligent design/creationist propaganda.I am an atheist and I feel religion and to some extent believing in god can be harmful. I however don't attack people who believe in god because most are harmless and quite nice infact.However, when people attack science because they are overly religious when they don't even have any evidence, just a contradictory book of fiction, it does bother me.You may post your archaic and anti-scientific views somewhere else. Here perhaps http://www.groupsrv.com/religion/Steven_______________________________________________________________In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
quote:Originally posted by vetteluvI think it's funny that when people are at their most desperate moment before death, such as a 500 m.p.h. vertical nosedive in a crashing plane, they some how abandon the scientific method for faith just long enough to to get in one "can you please save my as- Lord prayer".
quote:Originally posted by RMorty The bible is two thousand years old and it has never been revised.
quote:So yes, when Jesus was walking the earth(a good guy I might add, he fed people fish and gave them alcohol) they needed people to reproduce, people weren't living to be eighty years old, we didn’t have the same medicine as today, so no wonder the bible forbids abortions and homosexuality, they wanted all able people to reproduce. Today it's different we have an overpopulated planet and it's not getting any bigger.
quote:Steven - I'm just curious, in your last two sentences, are you addressing rcoyle13, or all Christians in general?Carolyn
quote:Not even sure that the bible does forbid abortion – not sure it was actually an issue that was raised in biblical times. The prohibition on homosexuality is there....
quote:Ofcourse, you are always at liberty to start a religion that forbids procreation (there certainly has been many past religious societies that have demanded their members abstain from sexual practices, which inevitably means that their members did not have children).
quote:Originally posted by RMortyI understand what you mean by it dosen't directly forbid abortion because, as far as I know they didn't have it then and no where in the bible is the word abortion. However, it says you should not kill and many people interpret abortions as "Murdering babies" and then the religions look at it as a violation of religious rules.
quote: No, I don't agree with saying that people shouldn't be allowed to reproduce, that's everyone's right. All I was saying is that there are things that could assist the issue of overpopulation and homosexuality and abortions are among them. I hope everyone understands where I am coming from with this. All of my statements are with the assumption that religion was created to control people and I was simply trying to point out some possible explanations of why certain things in the bible are what they are.
quote: Also to anwser one of your questions the last time I read any version of the bible is never, sorry.
quote:Originally posted by RMortyquote:Originally posted by vetteluvI think it's funny that when people are at their most desperate moment before death, such as a 500 m.p.h. vertical nosedive in a crashing plane, they some how abandon the scientific method for faith just long enough to to get in one "can you please save my as- Lord prayer". I like that, because it's true, that does seem to be how it works. Yes, it is funny. But I guess most people are raised with "Oh god" as a regular saying when something bad happens sort of like saying "oh [place four letter word here]!!"I agree with vetteluv, this thread is awesome because of the low numbers of pointless posts. Here's my two cents.... I respect other's religious beliefs, finding them harmless most of the time. However, it's when you get millions of people believing what is right without any reasoning, especially in politics that it becomes a problem. The bible is two thousand years old and it has never been revised. We update everything. Our computers, textbooks, cars, electronics, clothing styles, power systems. I know this may anger a lot of religious fanatics, but perhaps it's time for a new edition. Two thousand years ago world population was around a quarter billion now it’s over 6 billion. So yes, when Jesus was walking the earth(a good guy I might add, he fed people fish and gave them alcohol) they needed people to reproduce, people weren't living to be eighty years old, we didn’t have the same medicine as today, so no wonder the bible forbids abortions and homosexuality, they wanted all able people to reproduce. Today it's different we have an overpopulated planet and it's not getting any bigger. I say again, maybe its time for a new edition. Religion was an excellent way to control people back then by making answers that can't be questioned without being executed. As far as the possibility of god, I'd say it’s extremely possible because science hasn't figured out origins of the universe for example, the big bang theory, including the things with matter and antimatter. Whatever the theory, it raises one question... where did that big ball of matter that exploded come from? Where did the unthinkable amount of energy needed to make matter and antimatter atoms come from? We don't know.... if religious fanatics say "oh well god exists because he is necessary and never had a beginning or an end and just is because he must be" then the non-believers say "well then how do you know the universe isn't existent just because it is?" Now let me get to my point, I said earlier I believe god is very possible.... HOWEVER... I don't imagine this god being anything like "an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do..And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! ..But He loves you"(George Carlin[Napalm and Silly Putty]) I would say this god would be an invisible man living in the sky who created the universe because he can, and not only is this god the creator of the universe but himself has a creator and that which created this god has a beginning and he dosen't give a damn about earth we're just another little ball of mold floating around a star and so on... But not some dude who's like "worship me and let your planet get cluster-****ed with 7 billion people because homosexuality and abortion are wrong and if you do you can live with me forever worshipping me with every moment of eternity. I think religion is only making overpopulation worse. I respect the fact that every one of us, each person reading this, was at one time an embryo, but abortion on a small cluster of cells, would be no more killing a human being than if I cut the tip of my finger off with a meat slicer and tossed it in the garbage. I do however disagree with later stage abortion when there is brain activity, but before it gets advanced there is no good reason why abortion isn't okay. I personally am not for the idea of homosexuality simply because I am straight, but I really don't care. In theory, you have couples who PHYSICALLY CANNOT HAVE KIDS and they are willing to adopt children who need families. I have heard some studies say children raised by two same gendered parents grow up no differently if not better than ones with both. I am aware of how much I contradict myself in my post but I simply do that to 1. Keep an open mind and 2. Be a step ahead of those wanting to make contradicting points... although I do try to make my personal opinion clear.
quote:Originally posted by Non_BelieverDon't come to me with ignorant ideas like "What if the person is: deaf, paralyzed, and blind. Life would only be to that person, non-existant." Because for one, if that were to actually happen, that person would have no reason to live, not one reason at all. They would kill the baby because of all what is apart of the baby. The person could never learn, he/she could never be able to do anything, it'd be a lifeless body. They couldn't move, respond, or anything that humans with most of their senses about them could do.
quote:Originally posted by Non_BelieverDid I personally call you ignorant? No. I'm calling the people who say incompetant bull like that. Read, and don't misunderstand what someone is saying. It's gets you a lot further in life.
quote:God is just an idea, to control the "stupid" ones.
quote:There is no such thing as being too harsh on religion. Religion is pointless, you don't need some kind of cult to make sure you are living a good life, in the way God wants you too, you can do it yourself without the help of someone else.
quote:I may not believe in God, but I live a good life, as any other teenager I do mess up, but I don't do immature things like: drinking, smoking, doing drugs, or having sex before marriage. You can call those morals all you want, but they are rules for myself. You can live a good life without the help of someone else. Makes you look stupid to have someone else tell you how to live your life. Live life to the fullest, but stay within the boundaries of the law.Further more, religion = for the idiots.
quote:Originally posted by Non_BelieverFaith? I laugh at faith. Faith is the utmost idiotic idea to be thought of. Let's believe in something that can't be physically proven, wether it be a mythical creature, or God (in this case).
quote:You're still misinterpreting what I am saying. The idea of God is to control ones who are less fortunate of knowledge, ones who can't control their lives without a higher being.To believe in God, means you are an incompetant fool, you HAVE to have someone/something to control your life, because you can't.That is the basic idea of God.
quote:Just so you know, life is science, and that is how we live, by science, not faith. Because faith can't be proven, as much as God can't.
quote:I taught myself to be the way I am. I can control myself without the need of someone else. Sounds hard for teenager, doesn't it? Well for me, no. I don't need to believe in some fictional idea to make my life better, and easier.
quote: Religion is just a counterpart to God, or whatever any other religion calls him/her/it.And if he is so big and powerful. Why doesn't he come to EVERY human in this world and tell every single one of us, he is real. Your idea of him being so powerful is inept, you have no truth behind him, just a fictional book and an idea.
quote:Originally posted by Non_BelieverThe sun, and earth are proven. Basic science. We're on the earth this minute aren't we?
quote:The word solipsism (Latin: solus, alone + ipse, self) is used for two related yet distinct concepts:An epistemological position that one's own perceptions are the only things that can be known with certainty. The nature of the external world — that is, the source of one's perceptions — therefore cannot be conclusively known; it may not even exist. This is also called external world skepticism. A metaphysical belief that the universe is entirely the creation of one's own mind. Thus, in a sense, the belief that nothing 'exists' outside of one's own mind. Is solipsism falsifiable?According to one argument, no experiment (by a given solipsist A) can be designed to disprove solipsism (to the satisfaction of that solipsist A). Solipsism is therefore said to be unfalsifiable in the sense in which Karl Popper used the word. A solipsistic viewpoint held by a particular individual is unfalsifiable only to that individual, however. Any other person B might by introspection (cogito, ergo sum) conclude that he or she (B) does in fact exist and therefore that A is proven wrong (though B might symmetrically doubt whether A exists, and therefore would not have disproven solipsism per se, only solipsism by A). Even though B has proven A wrong, there is no way for B to validly convince A to abandon solipsism, since A doubts B's very existence, let alone B's experiences or experimental results.Brain in a vatA thought-experiment related to solipsism, although in principle distinct (for one thing, it posits a real mad scientist, brain, and vat, which a metaphysical solipsist would dispute), is the brain in a vat. The person performing the thought-experiment considers the possibility that they are trapped within some utterly unknowable reality, much like that illustrated in the movie The Matrix. A mad scientist could be sending the same impulses to one's brain in a vat that one's brain (understood to be that of a person in the "real world") might receive, thereby creating "the world" as one knows it from the mad scientist's program. Yet, for one's brain in the vat, that "world" would obviously not be "real." This raises the possibility that everything one thinks or knows is illusion. Or, at the least, that one cannot know with any certainty whether one's brain is in the "real world" or in a vat receiving impulses that would create an equivalent consciousness— or even if there is a real world, mad scientist, brain, or vat (all experience could be simply a never-ending dream).
quote:I do control myself, no one else does. No one is in my brain, controlling my every thought, and move. Only you can control yourself, no one else.
quote:God is non-existant, because nothing you do, proves his existance. Main reason why I replied to this topic.
quote:Originally posted by Non_BelieverHow is it not the same? If you can't prove something, then there is a lack of existence. How ignorant are you? If you can't prove something to be real, then how is it real?
quote:How can your sense touch/feel be fooled when you feel something you can feel it. It is unlogical to say your sense of touch/feel can be fooled when in reality it can't. Senses such as taste, smell, and hearing can be fooled, but touch/feel cannot be fooled. If you feel the rays of the sun hitting you, it is a small proof to say the sun is real. If you touch the ground of the earth, and you feel it, it's real. Don't be stupid to those senses.
quote:After amputation of a limb, an amputee continues to have an awareness of it and to experience sensations from it. These phantom limb sensations are also present in children born without a limb, suggesting that perception of our limbs is 'hard-wired' into our brain and that sensations from the limbs become mapped onto these brain networks as we develop.If phantom limb sensations are normal then so too, alas, is phantom limb pain. This occurs in a majority of those who lose their limbs. (1) In fact, limbs do not need to be lost; it also occurs in conditions in which the brain is disconnected from the body, such as peripheral nerve injuries and after spinal cord injury, when an area becomes insentient (and usually paralysed).
quote:Originally posted by Non_BelieverPut it this way: If was personally talking to you in person, and I said there is a horse right beside me. Would you believe it's existance? If you can't see it, smell it, touch it, hear it, or taste it, then there is a lack of existance there.
quote: It's the same with God, you can't see him/her/it, smell him/her/it, touch him/her/it, hear him/her/it, or taste him/her/it, there is a lack of existance because the sense touch DOES NOT come in. And if there isn't any proof of him/her/it existance, then there is a lack of existance!
quote:Originally posted by Non_BelieverAnnoyed? So you're telling me you got offended by a harmless post? Seriously. How old do you have to be to not get offended by something on the internet? Which in turn, you don't have to read, but do anyways. How mature of an adult, perhaps? That in itself is a form of ignorance. To get offended by something you don't have to read, but chose to read. Yes, emotional feelings are hard to control on your own, but you still chose to read my post even further, to make yourself even more annoyed. It's like reading a book on opinions, and then throwing it away because it annoyed you and you thought it was garbage of a book but kept on reading it when it still flustered you. It is something stupid to get annoyed over, and let your emotions fluster over something so small.
quote:Originally posted by Non_BelieverMaybe this should be handled maturely, lets end this post with a sincere "Goodbye". We all have our opinions, and let it be at that, I don't believe in God, George is more intelligent than I am (maybe because of age and have learned more?), and Carolyn believes in God.
quote:And I'm not much like other people, you have proven me wrong in many places (yes, being proved wrong is good for me, lets me learn even more), but still realize, I'm just a teenager with an opinion.
quote:My English teacher is an idiot to a major degree, and I have many people who will agree to that. But no I can have a normal discussion without being insulting. I do come off insulting because of how I feel about the ideas of God, religion, and science. Most people can't take something without getting offended. And I can much agree with you on the Florida School System, I have not fully lived this school system, but many others. I'm pretty sure as an American yourself, you are in the same damn basket of idiots as we're all in. This whole country is full of ignorance, and it drips with it. We know nothing about respect, and I've grown up never getting respect, so I barely give any respect back to anyone who asks for it.But as this is the internet, I have ALL rights to say what I want, and how I feel about something, wether I get nasty about it or not.
quote:I'll mistreat the use of the internet, I'll abuse the hell out of it. For my own purpose. You and everyone else on this forum, I can give less care for. Your opinions (some great at that) don't matter to me. No one that I don't know that isn't close to me is just an itch on the arm to me. Forums of this such don't matter, you people don't matter.
quote:Maybe this should be handled maturely, lets end this post with a sincere "Goodbye". We all have our opinions, and let it be at that, I don't believe in God, George is more intelligent than I am (maybe because of age and have learned more?), and Carolyn believes in God.
quote:Originally posted by Carolynquote:And I'm not much like other people, you have proven me wrong in many places (yes, being proved wrong is good for me, lets me learn even more), but still realize, I'm just a teenager with an opinion.Steven - I sincerely apologise to you. I didn't mean to be so harsh, I was just trying to make a point. Nothing wrong with making mistakes as long as we learn from them. Saying that you are just a teenager implies that you aren't, for lack of a better word, valuable. You are valuable and your opinion matters, whether I agree with you or not. quote:My English teacher is an idiot to a major degree, and I have many people who will agree to that. But no I can have a normal discussion without being insulting. I do come off insulting because of how I feel about the ideas of God, religion, and science. Most people can't take something without getting offended. And I can much agree with you on the Florida School System, I have not fully lived this school system, but many others. I'm pretty sure as an American yourself, you are in the same damn basket of idiots as we're all in. This whole country is full of ignorance, and it drips with it. We know nothing about respect, and I've grown up never getting respect, so I barely give any respect back to anyone who asks for it.But as this is the internet, I have ALL rights to say what I want, and how I feel about something, wether I get nasty about it or not.This just made me laugh. I get the feeling you have a wonderful sense of humor, I just missed it. Sorry I didn't see it. I also live in Florida, and have one child in the FL school system, and one that's graduated and is off in college. It is a challenge making sure my kids don't get behind the 8 ball when it comes to an education in Florida. You mentioned that you went to school outside of Florida too? Have you had to take that awful FCAT yet? If so, I hope you did well. If not, good luck.Steven - I'm sorry you haven't been shown respect. I hope that changes for you very soon.quote:I'll mistreat the use of the internet, I'll abuse the hell out of it. For my own purpose. You and everyone else on this forum, I can give less care for. Your opinions (some great at that) don't matter to me. No one that I don't know that isn't close to me is just an itch on the arm to me. Forums of this such don't matter, you people don't matter. Yes, these forums do matter. I've learned alot here and have made some good friends. And although I've disagreed and argued with you, you should know that you and your opinion matter. Hope you stick around and check out some other topics.quote:Maybe this should be handled maturely, lets end this post with a sincere "Goodbye". We all have our opinions, and let it be at that, I don't believe in God, George is more intelligent than I am (maybe because of age and have learned more?), and Carolyn believes in God.Something we can agree on. George is more intelligent than most of us.Carolyn