God real or not

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Offline Seany

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« Reply #500 on: 15/05/2007 21:08:58 »
Mehh.. Don't you think that this is such a broad topic to discuss? Whether God is real or not.. I think that we should decide that for ourselves. Although discussions are perfectly fine, but.. Most wars are religion-based. We may just get a WW3 here. [;)]
They say that when you die, your life flashes in front of you. Make it worth watching!


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Offline Ben6789

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« Reply #501 on: 16/05/2007 16:48:00 »
Nah, your theroy of how WWIII would start was completly different.
Life is like a video game, always trying to win. To bad it's impossible to beat Death's high score.

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Offline Seany

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« Reply #502 on: 16/05/2007 20:43:02 »
LOL! About N and S korea? [;)]
They say that when you die, your life flashes in front of you. Make it worth watching!


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Offline Ben6789

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« Reply #503 on: 17/05/2007 13:14:30 »
You bet. But with the USA [;D] [:D] [:)] [O8)]on your side, it's a guranteed win for S Korea.
Life is like a video game, always trying to win. To bad it's impossible to beat Death's high score.

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #504 on: 21/05/2007 16:49:34 »
N korea...urgh dont even get me started
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Offline Titanscape

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« Reply #505 on: 21/05/2007 17:25:41 »
God has to be a relational being, "No man is an island."

Where does your soul come from and go?

I bet you are minding the question.
Titanscape

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Offline Nobody's Confidant

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« Reply #506 on: 22/05/2007 13:17:55 »
Your soul comes from God, and when you die, your soul leaves your body behind to go heaven. Not that complicated.


N korea...urgh dont even get me started

Why what's wrong with N Korea?
Nothing is absolute. It takes a thousand people to make a stereotype, only one to grind it into the dust.

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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #507 on: 22/05/2007 13:37:22 »
Your soul comes from God, and when you die, your soul leaves your body behind to go heaven. Not that complicated.


N korea...urgh dont even get me started

Why what's wrong with N Korea?

Is this a serious question?
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Offline Nobody's Confidant

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« Reply #508 on: 22/05/2007 16:31:57 »
Yeah, why wouldn't it be?
Nothing is absolute. It takes a thousand people to make a stereotype, only one to grind it into the dust.

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another_someone

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« Reply #509 on: 22/05/2007 17:17:48 »
Yeah, why wouldn't it be?

I think Paul was a little incredulous that there was anybody who was not aware of the rather extreme regime that runs N.Korea at present, and the current controversy regarding their development of nuclear weapons.

I think it is probably a little unfair to show such incredulity, since one should not assume everyone knows everything about everything - we all have gaps in our knowledge, and even something that one person assumes to be basic general knowledge might still be part of a gap in another persons knowledge.

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paul.fr

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« Reply #510 on: 22/05/2007 17:23:00 »
Yeah, why wouldn't it be?

I think Paul was a little incredulous that there was anybody who was not aware of the rather extreme regime that runs N.Korea at present, and the current controversy regarding their development of nuclear weapons.

I think it is probably a little unfair to show such incredulity, since one should not assume everyone knows everything about everything - we all have gaps in our knowledge, and even something that one person assumes to be basic general knowledge might still be part of a gap in another persons knowledge.

Not me?

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another_someone

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« Reply #511 on: 22/05/2007 17:33:51 »
Yeah, why wouldn't it be?

I think Paul was a little incredulous that there was anybody who was not aware of the rather extreme regime that runs N.Korea at present, and the current controversy regarding their development of nuclear weapons.

I think it is probably a little unfair to show such incredulity, since one should not assume everyone knows everything about everything - we all have gaps in our knowledge, and even something that one person assumes to be basic general knowledge might still be part of a gap in another persons knowledge.

Not me?

My sincere apologies - it was Steven being incredulous.


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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #512 on: 22/05/2007 22:40:53 »
I wouldn't consider that a small gap. If he was truly asking the question then I apologise for seeming so incredulous.
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Offline Ben6789

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« Reply #513 on: 23/05/2007 13:22:05 »
no sweat, Mjhavok. I always considered Kim Jong Il a joke. Everytime i hear his voice, i hear circus music.
Life is like a video game, always trying to win. To bad it's impossible to beat Death's high score.

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Offline Nobody's Confidant

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« Reply #514 on: 23/05/2007 16:51:57 »
Some people might consider that offensive. Watch out.

Nothing is absolute. It takes a thousand people to make a stereotype, only one to grind it into the dust.

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Offline Nobody's Confidant

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« Reply #515 on: 25/05/2007 16:52:12 »
I can't contain it anymore, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.

People say, "Take "under God" out of the pledge!" and yet they have don't complain about Easter break, historically a religous holiday. The Easter bunny is some shoddy sellout to despratley hide their hypocrisy.

People who are atheists curse in God's name without second thought, even though they do not beleive in him.

Then whenever i mange to let a small curse slip, they gasp and point and say "Don't do that or you won't go to heaven." In the most ridiculing voice possible and laugh to show off to their friends.

Grrr, I can't stand anything hypocritical. I hate it. [xx(] [xx(] [:(!] [:(!] [>:(]
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another_someone

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« Reply #516 on: 25/05/2007 17:45:11 »
I can't contain it anymore, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.

People say, "Take "under God" out of the pledge!" and yet they have don't complain about Easter break, historically a religous holiday. The Easter bunny is some shoddy sellout to despratley hide their hypocrisy.

People who are atheists curse in God's name without second thought, even though they do not beleive in him.

Then whenever i mange to let a small curse slip, they gasp and point and say "Don't do that or you won't go to heaven." In the most ridiculing voice possible and laugh to show off to their friends.

Grrr, I can't stand anything hypocritical. I hate it. [xx(] [xx(] [:(!] [:(!] [>:(]

The Easter Bunny and Easter Egg refer back to a pre-Christian pagan festival of spring and fertility.

The celebration of holidays is a complex issue.  There are many Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, et. al., who celebrate Christmass in Britain, not because they take any religious significance from it but because they want to show solidarity with their Christian (or pseudo Christian) neighbours.  If I lived in a Muslim country, I'd be as likely to celebrate Muslim festivities as I would Christian one's in this country.  I believe in neither, but they are both celebrations that help bring the community together in a common celebration.

If one wants to show another, secular, context to this.  If I was in the USA, I would have no qualms about sharing the American 4th July celebrations, despite the fact that these celebrations actually celebrate the defeat (and killing) of my own countrymen.

We also have a very similar celebration over here - the 5th of November.  This day celebrates (with fireworks and bombfires) the overthrow of a Catholic plot against a protestant parliament, and so if taken literally, could be regarded as an anti-catholic celebration.  In fact, most catholics would celebrate it as willingly as any protestant, and all have largely forgotten the significance of the celebration.

The case about the oath is different.  OK, maybe I should not say much about it, because it is not my country, and it is not for me to decide what another nation should choose for themselves, so I speak only as to what I might think if it were my country, rather than to suggest that I have any right to dictate to another country.

If one casually curses in the name of God, without thought, that is one thing.  If one takes an oath that one is supposed to believe in, then one should take an oath that has meaning to oneself.  When one stands in court, and gives an oath to the court to tell the truth, one has a choice to take a secular affirmation or a religious oath, according to one's own beliefs.  The problem with the "one nation under God" is that it assumes the belief system of the nation, not of the person taking the oath; and I would consider it (if I were an American) inappropriate that anyone should regard me as a member of that nation as being under God.  That a president might, on his own account, swear under God, that is for him to choose, but he should not choose for those of his nation who may not share his belief.

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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #517 on: 25/05/2007 22:36:56 »
Well done George.
Steven
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jolly

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« Reply #518 on: 10/06/2007 21:41:33 »
Mehh.. Don't you think that this is such a broad topic to discuss? Whether God is real or not.. I think that we should decide that for ourselves. Although discussions are perfectly fine, but.. Most wars are religion-based. We may just get a WW3 here. [;)]

Sorry seany But Wars are always ecconomic in origin, wars are always about ownership, money, land more power! Religion is not the cause, however religion is a tool men in power use to manipulate people into fighting, you know there devils go kill them ect...

But the reality is that truely godly people do not engage in warfare! If all these godly people turned around and said ´no! you sick hypocrite, I am not going to go kill anyone as my religion states quite clearly ´thou shall not kill!´.

Then all armies would just have athiest in them; and all the religious people on both sides would do everything they can to stop the war! But sadly many a religious Leader, sells out and lies to the flock saying its o.k to fight! Sorry not so!

Good men stop wars, bad men fight in them! For you cannot turn the other cheek or love thy enemy with a gun in your hand, And you certainly cannot run around killing people and then claim to be a member of any of the faiths, If you do not keep the covernant you cannot be a jew, christisn or muslim! By the covernant are you known!

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Offline that mad man

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« Reply #519 on: 10/06/2007 22:50:53 »
Jolly, if you read the Bible correctly there is no sin committed by the unbeliever. The idea of sin was never in the old testament and was introduced into the NT by Paul because the basis of HIS teachings in the NT relies on "sin".

So, Paul introduced it to make HIS ideas work and not Gods.

Christ would not have had to die and then rise to save our sins otherwise, so as you can see the story requires "sin" for it to work.

Freedom is not freedom if it carries with it conditions, if God was love then he should have given us true unconditional freedom instead of binding us.

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Offline that mad man

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« Reply #520 on: 11/06/2007 19:07:03 »
That's the whole point jolly, with sin you also get the new idea of repentance and forgiveness just to make the whole complete.

One of the reasons the "New" (Catholic) religion gained popularity because it meant that the individual could sin and as log as they were repentant then they could be forgiven.


Rational, as in society if you break the law your locked up! What are you suggesting that people should be allowed to kill each other?

People already kill each other and the idea of sin does not prevent that, in fact as pointed out before the "Church" and religiously lead governments have been responsible for some wicked crimes in the past and all in the name of their GOD.

Judging a crime and locking people up is sensible in a modern society but very different from breaking the commandment "you shall not murder" and putting them to the electric chair!

Bee

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #521 on: 08/07/2007 17:23:28 »
most who use that dont beleive in god....
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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #522 on: 08/07/2007 17:37:31 »


The case about the oath is different.  OK, maybe I should not say much about it, because it is not my country, and it is not for me to decide what another nation should choose for themselves, so I speak only as to what I might think if it were my country, rather than to suggest that I have any right to dictate to another country.

If one casually curses in the name of God, without thought, that is one thing.  If one takes an oath that one is supposed to believe in, then one should take an oath that has meaning to oneself.  When one stands in court, and gives an oath to the court to tell the truth, one has a choice to take a secular affirmation or a religious oath, according to one's own beliefs.  The problem with the "one nation under God" is that it assumes the belief system of the nation, not of the person taking the oath; and I would consider it (if I were an American) inappropriate that anyone should regard me as a member of that nation as being under God.  That a president might, on his own account, swear under God, that is for him to choose, but he should not choose for those of his nation who may not share his belief.

I am not American and by no means an expert on their constitution but doesn't it include a mention of the separation of church and state. Isn't having 'In God we trust' on the money and "One nation under God" in a court oath a bit of a violation of that?
Steven
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Offline socratus

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« Reply #523 on: 11/07/2007 15:02:48 »
If your understanding of God is dead try mine.
========
The people created a God.
No one knows what the external characteristics
of this God are, a God who made himself known
with the name " I am who I am ".
Is it enough for us in the XXIc ?
Why didn,t the formula E=Mc^2 write in the Bible?
I explaine RELIGION by simple laws and formulas of Physics.
www.socratus.com
Best wishes.
The secret of 'God' and 'Existence' hide
 in the “Theory of Light quanta”.

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Offline socratus

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« Reply #524 on: 11/07/2007 15:09:23 »
The words "God", "soul", "religion",
 " dualism of consciousness", "human being"
 are possible  to explain  with the physical formulas and laws.
===============
THE GENESIS.
==============
1.
     T = 0K.
2.
    C/D=pi ,  E=Mc^2, R/N=k ,  h = 0 , i^2=-1 .
3.
     h = 1, c=1. ( light quanta).
4.
       h = h /2pi ,  c>1.
       E = hw,   e^2 = hca  ( electron).
      The Lorentz   transformations.
5.
     Star formation:
 e- -  k  -  He II - He I - rotating He - thermonuclear reaction:
      a) hw > kT
       b) hw = kT
       c) kT > hw
6.
     p ( proton)
7.
    Evolution of interaction:
       a)  electromagnetic,
       b)  nuclear,
       c)  biological.
8.
     Laws:
    a) The Law of conservation and transformation energy.
    b) The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle / law.
    c) The Pauli Exclusion Principle/ law.
9.
      Biopsychology: dualism of consciousness.
        The theory and practice.
===============================
 http://www.socratus.com
P.S.
This model of GENESIS is so simple, logical and clear,
that GOD himself will put his signature under it .
Question:
'Why isn,t God putting his signature now?
Answer:
Now he is busy.
Some time ago He opened his palm and
a process ' big bang' happened .
And now  He tries to compress his palm and
to change the 'big bang' in the 'singular point'.
As soon as He is free, He will sign this document.
======================


The secret of 'God' and 'Existence' hide
 in the “Theory of Light quanta”.

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Offline johnbrandy

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« Reply #525 on: 20/08/2007 02:42:28 »
For me, and probable most people, God is a concept, an idea. How do we go from a concept to a living fact? Moreover, there a different concepts of God. If we adhere to a certain concept, and its wrong, we might miss the mark. If it is possible to know God, it seems clear that we must first understand our own minds, in rather complete ways. And our capacity for self-deception. Until we transcend biases and preconceptions, how can we genuinely know anything, especially God. Yes, I understand the challenge, but what is the alternative. Few of us are willing to do the necessary work required to achieve the quality of mindfulness that can lead to direct perception. No doubt, this may sound fanciful, or unrealistic. How can you hope to entertain the "absolute" if you have not come terms with the relative. How can you  hope to entertain God if you have not come to terms with ordinary reality. It is possible to achieve greater levels of insight and understanding. Firstly, you must be absolutely serious and committed and willing to investigate the viability of this enterprise. There are many exercises than can facilitate this goal, but none are more important than continuous self-awareness. In other words, deliberately raising self-awareness to monitor your thought processes in order to detect biases and preconceived notions. This habit can lead to the cleansing of the doorways of perceptions and allow for  the possibility of direct insight, and eventually an appreciation of divinity, in term of your understanding. Thank you for allowing me to participate.     
« Last Edit: 21/08/2007 17:58:55 by johnbrandy »

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Offline nothingnobody

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« Reply #526 on: 27/08/2007 10:07:42 »
GOD IS AN ENERGY, NOT A PERSON.
no path...no goal...no walker

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another_someone

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« Reply #527 on: 27/08/2007 11:11:44 »
GOD IS AN ENERGY, NOT A PERSON.

To say God is this or that, whether He be energy or a concept, all misses a key part of the underlying question - is He sentient.

God may indeed be energy, but is it sentient energy?  Are you suggesting that all energy is God, or God is only some forms of energy?

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Offline Quantumorigin7

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« Reply #528 on: 29/08/2007 17:13:18 »
I think there has to be a God because like in another thread, I put it plain and simple. If the universe is as we know it, then it could have very well existed for eternity as other universes, and there had to be something that created them, they didn't just come out of complete blackness, I mean, come on now!!

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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #529 on: 29/08/2007 22:50:21 »
I think there has to be a God because like in another thread, I put it plain and simple. If the universe is as we know it, then it could have very well existed for eternity as other universes, and there had to be something that created them, they didn't just come out of complete blackness, I mean, come on now!!

Worst argument ever?

Smacks of desperation.
Steven
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paul.fr

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« Reply #530 on: 29/08/2007 23:18:07 »
Worst argument ever?

Smacks of desperation.

ever? i think your "praise" is too high, it's only one of the worst arguments ever [;)]

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Offline Quantumorigin7

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« Reply #531 on: 30/08/2007 00:13:27 »
I think there has to be a God because like in another thread, I put it plain and simple. If the universe is as we know it, then it could have very well existed for eternity as other universes, and there had to be something that created them, they didn't just come out of complete blackness, I mean, come on now!!

Worst argument ever?

Smacks of desperation.

I get this on every forum, it's so cliche to me now.

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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #532 on: 30/08/2007 00:22:31 »
I think there has to be a God because like in another thread, I put it plain and simple. If the universe is as we know it, then it could have very well existed for eternity as other universes, and there had to be something that created them, they didn't just come out of complete blackness, I mean, come on now!!

Worst argument ever?

Smacks of desperation.

I get this on every forum, it's so cliche to me now.

Maybe you get it on every forum because everyone but you seems to see it is a terrible argument.


There has to be a god because there has to be because there just has to be.

This satisfies you?
« Last Edit: 30/08/2007 00:25:22 by Mjhavok »
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Offline Nobody's Confidant

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« Reply #533 on: 31/08/2007 14:54:16 »
GOD IS AN ENERGY, NOT A PERSON.

Please explain.

This thread will never end. It is a forever conflict.
Nothing is absolute. It takes a thousand people to make a stereotype, only one to grind it into the dust.

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Offline johnbrandy

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« Reply #534 on: 12/09/2007 05:10:24 »
Herein are many worthy ideas. God is and is not the issue. It is clear that the questions about God are the same as the questions about truth and knowledge. These are intellectual and philosophical questions, and therefore subjects of debate. Is this not largely the purpose of this forum? No one can prove the existence of God. Even if a genuine proof could be written, whom among us is prepared to comprehend and accept it? Yes, again, I must introduce the notion of the prepared mind. Free to evaluate these questions without the encumbrance of reactionary thinking. I do not know if God exist, in terms of the many definitions that I have been exposed to. But I will never know if I allow myself to surrender to shallow and reactionary opinions; lacking in reasoned thought, deep reflection, and sincere intentions. The important thing is to cultivate the need to seek truth and understanding. For me, discovering God is the absolute need to know the genuine truth in all things. "Forget" definitions. If God is the ultimate reality, why would you believe this reality would conveniently fit into anyones definition. Perhaps thats the problem, many religions and many definitions. Maybe the real question  is should we live our lives as if a divinity existed; a loving, knowing, intelligent force for the greatest good. I think so. How much better would the world be if we could accepted this simple idea. Look to your children for insight . Consider every kind deed. Consider the effect of acts of love in your life. It is very well possible that you already know "God", without direct or reflective insight. Take your time and be honest. "Knowing God is not knowing God". Knowing God is connecting with and reflecting the deepest impulse of the human spirit.   
« Last Edit: 12/09/2007 13:27:04 by johnbrandy »

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sooyeah

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« Reply #535 on: 21/09/2007 16:39:39 »
In other words, deliberately raising self-awareness to monitor your thought processes in order to detect biases and preconceived notions. This habit can lead to the cleansing of the doorways of perceptions and allow for  the possibility of direct insight, and eventually an appreciation of divinity, in term of your understanding.

I believe thats called, the circumcision of the heart.

Knowing God is connecting with and reflecting the deepest impulse of the human spirit.   

Thankyou Johnbrandy, I heartily agree with you.


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Offline the environmentalist

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« Reply #536 on: 22/09/2007 19:29:51 »
btw, the universe COULD have come out of completey nothing.  (now I REALLY HOPE THIS IS RIGHT  [8]) ok, if there is only energy, no time, no matter, just energy, then its means that matter could have been made, there is energy in all matter, so this must be able to work the other way around. "the big bang" could have just been the sudden introduction of matter into the universe, giving us our dimensions. high presure goes to low preasure right? so this matter ball would have spread out into the void (low preasure areas) very fast, and maybe this is why the universe is still expanding, I know that space isnt matter as most people know it, but there is a constant stream of antimater-matter particles in void.  maybe this is just spaces way of spreading into the low preasure areas.

just a thought
Just a thought

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Offline Quantum_Vaccuum

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« Reply #537 on: 19/10/2007 05:13:44 »
Do you think god exists?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
there is your answer!

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Offline Radrook

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« Reply #538 on: 27/10/2007 05:45:05 »
Someone had to code the DNA instructions for cellular replication. To me that someone is God.
 

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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #539 on: 28/10/2007 18:17:15 »
Someone had to code the DNA instructions for cellular replication. To me that someone is God.

Your presupposition is fallacious.
Steven
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Offline Nobody's Confidant

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« Reply #540 on: 06/11/2007 17:54:02 »
Someone had to code the DNA instructions for cellular replication. To me that someone is God.

Your presupposition is fallacious.
Wha?
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Offline RMorty

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« Reply #541 on: 10/12/2007 01:50:28 »
Someone had to code the DNA instructions for cellular replication. To me that someone is God.

So you think Charles DeLisi is God?
 

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Offline RMorty

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« Reply #542 on: 10/12/2007 02:01:07 »
The Big Bang theory, and faith are neither proof of anything.  The big bang is a theory created by atheist scientists who are unable to offer an explanation for how the universe was created, or wasn't created. Faith is just a believers quick fix to the same problem.

  Why would the bible have so much false and contradictory information anyway?

 A lot of christians contradict themselves as well.  I must have missed the footnotes of the 10 commandments where it said.  "These commandments apply only to those not violating any of the terms and conditions within the Bible."  For example, the golden rule is to treat everyone the way you want to be treated, yet homosexuality is against their religion so suddenly the golden rule does not matter.

It is okay for homos to be outcast and shunned by churches, yet all of the people within those churches are supposed to always treat everyone with kindness.

How does that work? Something that is the supposed word of God can be so back-asswards.  If it is God's word truly I would expect it to contain reasoning and logic not comparable to that of a 1st grader.

Any comments?
 

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Offline Nobody's Confidant

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« Reply #543 on: 19/12/2007 17:39:38 »
The Big Bang theory, and faith are neither proof of anything.  The big bang is a theory created by atheist scientists who are unable to offer an explanation for how the universe was created, or wasn't created. Faith is just a believers quick fix to the same problem.

  Why would the bible have so much false and contradictory information anyway?

 A lot of christians contradict themselves as well.  I must have missed the footnotes of the 10 commandments where it said.  "These commandments apply only to those not violating any of the terms and conditions within the Bible."  For example, the golden rule is to treat everyone the way you want to be treated, yet homosexuality is against their religion so suddenly the golden rule does not matter.

It is okay for homos to be outcast and shunned by churches, yet all of the people within those churches are supposed to always treat everyone with kindness.

How does that work? Something that is the supposed word of God can be so back-asswards.  If it is God's word truly I would expect it to contain reasoning and logic not comparable to that of a 1st grader.

Any comments?
I believe those Christians are not really Christians.
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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #544 on: 19/12/2007 18:20:08 »
christians have really no sense of beliveing anymore i mean think of this question all u ppl out there!


IF INCEST IS SO WRONG HOW DID ADAM AND EVE'S CHILDERN HAVE KIDS TOO?????
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Offline that mad man

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« Reply #545 on: 19/12/2007 23:32:46 »
What happened in Genesis times was not subject to the 10 Commandments or any idea of sin.

Those ideas came much later with the formation of modern religion.

Eve was cloned from Adam and told "be fruitful and multiply" and the same applied to the children.



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Offline RMorty

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« Reply #546 on: 20/12/2007 00:05:23 »
I don't know what Genesis is.  It sounds like a great title for a futuristic action movie though.

I believe those Christians are not really Christians.

I agree.  However, the bible itself is contradictory.  The people I described act on it, but the bible does basically dis gay people.

I use that only as an example. I am not trying to promote homosexuality, but I don't bash it either.  Basically, it doesn't have anything to do with me so I ignore it, and I feel that others should do the same.

My point is the bible contradicts itself.  I would think that the golden rule should basically sum the whole damn book up.
 

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #547 on: 20/12/2007 17:30:27 »
y does god change his mind tho i mean wat if i wanna be "fruitful and mutiply" with my sister i mean come on i have one HOT sister so that is wrong now that god changed his mind?
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Offline opus

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« Reply #548 on: 20/12/2007 18:10:08 »
Too much information tony6789!  What would your Mum say?

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Offline that mad man

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« Reply #549 on: 20/12/2007 20:03:10 »
@ RMorty

You know about the Bible and not about Genesis.  [???]

@ tony6798

I agree with opus.

When growing up all sorts of confusing feelings rush at you. If you are worried about your thoughts then I would advise some counselling with someone professional.

Peace.