God real or not

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #550 on: 20/12/2007 20:09:33 »
lol rotfl lmao
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Offline Simulated

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« Reply #551 on: 20/12/2007 21:37:13 »
y does god change his mind tho i mean wat if i wanna be "fruitful and mutiply" with my sister i mean come on i have one HOT sister so that is wrong now that god changed his mind?

anthony..idk idc lol cuz i've gots all i wants lol

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #552 on: 21/12/2007 16:30:19 »
kraner think about wat i said...lol MY sister
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Offline Simulated

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« Reply #553 on: 21/12/2007 16:36:38 »
Yeha you don't have a sister? lol

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Offline Nobody's Confidant

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« Reply #554 on: 21/12/2007 16:43:39 »
In the beginning, or at least close to it, they had to incest because there was no one else, but as society evolved, incest was looked down upon and seen as a sin because so many other people had now populated the earth. Technically, incest still happens, seeing as we are all related through Adam and Eve.
Nothing is absolute. It takes a thousand people to make a stereotype, only one to grind it into the dust.

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #555 on: 21/12/2007 16:46:40 »
lol yea
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Offline Simulated

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« Reply #556 on: 21/12/2007 21:35:59 »
lol yea

Wow 565 replies. go anthony lol

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Offline RMorty

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« Reply #557 on: 22/12/2007 17:33:58 »
No, can't say I am a scholar of either.  But I do know about what I've written.
 

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #558 on: 08/01/2008 19:07:19 »
but still ben we r still doing sumthing that'll send us to hell lol right???
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Offline Quantumorigin7

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« Reply #559 on: 17/06/2008 21:15:06 »
You want the answer? Here's the answer. God is not part of our known science. Our science says he does not exist, frankly, because it cannot suffice the ability to explain him. We have 4th. dimensional physics and we have the "paranormal" somewhat explained. But God is "supernatural". The supernatural, if it exists, has, is, and always will be beyond our comprehension. I always told people around me that if there is a God, he let science take it's course after he decided to create a big mess of whatever in oblivion, thus, evolution took place and we got smarter and smarter and now we think we can say there is no God when we really don't know.

Beyond our dimension lies a dimension not of sight, sound, but of mind. The mind projects into a higher dimension and therefore, when it dies, becomes part of that dimension and then, it A.)starts a new life or B.)becomes a "soul" in the supernatural, the eternal heaven or the eternal hell. We don't know yet, the only people that know are the dead, if they exist now. If they don't exist, then it never happened, it's like before you were born and had no before life. If there are past lives, then what we know as birth will always happen until the "big splash" and then what will happen? Perhaps an intersecting 4th. or 5th. or even 6th. dimension will open up and have it's chance to evolve and create what I would like to call "the intersecting race of persons once known" They will possess the higher learning ability our "projected" minds passed on and will not really have any need for physical strength, like Neanderthals.

Intersecting dimensions, mind projection, parallel universe, it's all theory. God is belief. You either believe in him or you don't, got it?

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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #560 on: 17/06/2008 22:27:14 »
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.
-CHARLES DARWIN, Introduction, The Descent of Man (1871)
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Offline Quantumorigin7

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« Reply #561 on: 18/06/2008 13:28:49 »
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.
-CHARLES DARWIN, Introduction, The Descent of Man (1871)

Ok, smart a**, tell me who God is then.

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #562 on: 18/06/2008 13:41:47 »
Intersecting dimensions, mind projection, parallel universe, it's all theory. God is belief. You either believe in him or you don't, got it?

Okay then.  I don't believe in him, and so to me god is not, never has been and can never be real.  Surely that's the end of the discussion?

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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #563 on: 18/06/2008 15:57:39 »

Ok, smart a**, tell me who God is then.

God is a concept that human beings created to explain mysteries of a primitive time. Throughout human history many of these fictional deities have been created. The particular one you believe in no doubt is tied up with a bunch of your emotions and then you use post hoc rationalisation.

Human beings make things so when we looked at the natural world we thought "someone much bigger than us must have made this". As we progressed we discovered better explanations for natural phenomenon. We know Zeus doesn't cause lightning. In modern society most people no longer think god is even a person. He is some kind of nebulous spirit that purveys the universe. I have no problem with you or anyone believing this but I use Occam's razor and think it is unnecessary. I wish people didn't believe stuff without evidence but hey you can't always get what you want. What really gets me annoyed is when they think they can tell me what a fictional omnipotent beings wants me to do.
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Offline Quantumorigin7

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« Reply #564 on: 18/06/2008 16:55:48 »
I have to agree, having someone forcing religion on you is like telling you to go out in the middle of the 4 way intersection blind folded. I know what it's like, being raised Catholic.

I've heard it time and time again that "God is a concept", but can someone, other than myself, reason upon "afterlife experiences" through interdimensional interaction?

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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #565 on: 18/06/2008 22:36:08 »
but can someone, other than myself, reason upon "afterlife experiences" through interdimensional interaction?

Please elaborate as I have no idea what this means.
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Offline Quantumorigin7

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« Reply #566 on: 19/06/2008 12:45:55 »
Basically, can someone, like I do, relate "afterlife" experiences with hologram theory, the mind as a hologram, passing on to a higer dimension upon death and existing as just the mind in that time and space. You can say, "afterlife" or simply, "reincarnation". The mind could project to a higher dimension and then find itself another meat puppet(human body) to be born into, but of higher intelligence.

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #567 on: 05/03/2009 18:11:51 »
ive never heard of that theory b4...
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lyner

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« Reply #568 on: 05/03/2009 23:43:36 »
Basically, can someone, like I do, relate "afterlife" experiences with hologram theory, the mind as a hologram, passing on to a higer dimension upon death and existing as just the mind in that time and space. You can say, "afterlife" or simply, "reincarnation". The mind could project to a higher dimension and then find itself another meat puppet(human body) to be born into, but of higher intelligence.
It may appeal to you but, to me, that's just a bundle of unrelated buzz words.
How can you be sure that these 'afterlife' experiences are anything more than dreams / hallucinations? Why do they have to be given any more fancy explanation?

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Offline KingJames

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« Reply #569 on: 06/03/2009 18:27:02 »
In the Bible, God is quoted to say "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end".  "The beginning and the end", eh?  Could God be time?  Or could he have been hinting at a mystery of science, inconceivable for us at that point in history?

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Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #570 on: 07/03/2009 10:43:02 »
I am a Catholic and Buddhist, as well as being a Scientist... I am not oing to discuss the reasons, intricasies etc of this.

However, one thing I am certain of and it was mentioned very early in this thread - no one is going to be converted toanyone else's line f thinking on the internet.

For example, there is *no way* that I will be convinced by any words to alter mybeliefs in any way whatsoever and there will be no way that I could try and change anyone here (whichI have no interest in doing anyway).

People are simply going to have to accept that people believe differently to they do, no matter how strongly they hold their beliefs.
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lyner

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« Reply #571 on: 07/03/2009 11:12:29 »
In the Bible, God is quoted to say "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end".  "The beginning and the end", eh?  Could God be time?  Or could he have been hinting at a mystery of science, inconceivable for us at that point in history?
In the film 'Judge Dread', Stallone says "I am the Law". Does that have some significance, too?

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Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #572 on: 07/03/2009 11:21:46 »
all hail Judge Dredd!!
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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #573 on: 09/03/2009 15:15:55 »
thats just a movie it doenst really have any significance if u think about it
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lyner

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« Reply #574 on: 09/03/2009 15:31:23 »
It is a story, written by someone. Where's the difference between the film and a religious book - which was written by someone?

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #575 on: 09/03/2009 15:43:48 »
with film they can pretty much say and do anything they want so long as its "BASED" on the "true story"
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lyner

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« Reply #576 on: 09/03/2009 18:31:10 »
So, ignoring the fact that some people feel able to call on extra 'authority' for some religious texts, where's the difference between them and some films, plays, poems, novels etc.?

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Offline SkaterMcgee

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« Reply #577 on: 16/03/2010 14:21:50 »
you tell me.


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Offline BenV

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« Reply #578 on: 31/08/2010 11:15:08 »
There are scientific proofs of God's is existence, one of is the number Phi, sometimes called the divine proportion or the golden number.
Phi = 1.618

According to the book "The Da Vinci Code" (and this true), if you measure the length from the tip of your head to the floor , and divide that by the length from your navel to the floor,you get Phi. If you measure the length from your hip to the floor, and divide it by the length from your knees to the floor, you get Phi. If you divide the number of female bees by the number of male bees in a bee hive,you get Phi. "Sun flower seeds grow in opposing spirals, the ratio of each rotation's diameter to the next is....PHI.
Fundamentally, Phi appears in everything; music, art, nature, architecture....everything.
This (at least for me) proves two things;
1- Divine power definitely exists.
2- Only ONE God exists, otherwise we wouldn't find such an astonishing link between everything in existence.

This is not, in any way, proof of the existence of any god.  Sorry.

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #579 on: 31/08/2010 11:42:19 »
Coincidental numbers in nature do not speak of a deity.  Especially when you consider that we all evolved from the same source.  Pi also appears over and over again in nature (in anything circular), does pi prove the existence of god?

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #580 on: 31/08/2010 12:51:25 »
Believing in the existence of God is in either one or both of two ways, Faith, and scientific proof.

Scientific evidence for the existence of God as of AD 2010 - Zero.
Please do not misuse the term scientific proof, especially on a science forum.

You are making wholly irrational leaps from finding commonality in biological structures to claiming the validity of the creator myth.

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #581 on: 31/08/2010 15:30:39 »
I suppose I got excited and when I do, my comments no longer make sense because I just throw bits of information in that in my make perfect sense, but when I later come to read it, it does not.
Appreciated. There's times when I've got carried away with an idea or apparent 'evidence' before and come a cropper.  However, I'm not sure it's just a problem of expressing yourself clearly in this case. There is a fundamental problem in that you will not find current evidence anywhere in science that will support the idea of a creator.

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After all, a piece of 'evidence' might be a reason for an individual to believe in God, but to another, the very same evidence is the reason for him to disbelieve in God
I'm afraid this can only be a question of personal faith, not reason (so far a science is concerned).

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...so a person must be open to different ideas and must respect other people's views ... If you felt that I was stressing my point too much, my apologies.
No need to apologise.  I respect your right to believe in these concepts, but they are not going to be accepted by science without reasoned argument, supported by irrefutable evidence (meaning more than a selection of related values). ...

...Sorry  [:)]

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #582 on: 31/08/2010 21:29:38 »
By the way, Peppercorn, did you take a look at the site I mentioned above?
I'm afraid my inbuilt bias (some may call it close mindedness) will not allow me to take much notice of a website under the banner of creationism.

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The scientific proof that deals with the existence of God is not really proper scientific proof, but more like logical reason with a sprinkle of science, so it is open to criticism.
I'm not entirely sure this is what Russell was saying, but still.  Scientific proof is, or should be, applied coldly and without the bias of feeling (the same is not required of the scientists themselves though  [;)]).  Above, you imply that a special strain of science is needed to deal with the question of God existence - there is not.  Going back to your hidden enlightenment through nature's 'hidden' number patterns theory (if I can call it that) - there is definitely no application of 'logical reason' in your support of it.  Sure, there are oft reoccurring values and mathematical patterns in nature, but this in no way leads logically to a creator, higher-conciousness, Godhead - call it what you will.

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So it is not fair to say that there is no proof whatsoever for the existence of God
I disagree. Plainly, "there is no [scientific] proof whatsoever for the existence of God".
If there was even the slightest -scientifically measurable and repeatable- proof of God the world would be a very different place. For a start the 'believers' would no longer need faith.

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[it's] not fair to say that there is proof which proves the existence of God 100%
A common misconception is that good science can ever work on principles of 'Absolute Truth'.  Therefore, the moment new evidence comes to light revealing a more complete understanding about the workings of some aspect of nature, there is no (or shouldn't be) idealogical battle between the old view and the new.  That's not say scientists are not resistant to changing cherished beliefs, being human as they are.

Where science is not wholly explaining of nature as we observe it, there is of course room for speculation, but to be worthwhile (for progressing human understanding) that has to be carried out along empirical paths.
« Last Edit: 31/08/2010 21:31:52 by peppercorn »

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #583 on: 01/09/2010 10:35:05 »
Oh dear. I obviously confused you there, Rami:
You quoted Bertrand Russell, then say "This is exactly what I meant."  Then went on to explain,
The scientific proof that deals with the existence of God is not really proper scientific proof, but more like logical reason with a sprinkle of science, so it is open to criticism.
Without copying out his quote again, I was saying that what Russell meant differs from you interpretation.

As I said, proof of the existence of God is not like other proofs.
It is as far as science is concerned. This is a science forum. QED.

If you have visited either or both of the sites above, then perhaps we could discuss this point more, but since you just plainly state what is in your mind with out much proof, and just not accept any other view but rather criticize others', I see no outcome on this point but repetition of ideas.
Not true. I said I was resistant to visiting a 'creationist' website. Life is short and the 'net is full of opinion.  If there's a specific quote or argument from this website that has any relevance to scientific discussion, please post it here.  Keep it short though - members are not keen on trawling through BS.

Regarding you 2nd link, I had a look, but could find nothing that could be described as proof in a practical sense.  Discussing philosopher's arguments and physiological drives for man to seek out God - cuts no mustard in the world of the physical sciences.

For a start the 'believers' would no longer need faith.
No, you didn't read my previous post well.
[::)] Well, enlighten me then!

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #584 on: 07/09/2010 15:46:23 »
Quoted from my first link: ...
You mean your first link from a website titled 'Creationism.com' or some such?  Excuse me if I am not immediately accepting of the statement that "Proteins are so hard to make that in all of nature, they never form except in already living cells."

I don't have a background in biology and neither do I wish to spend masses of time delving into the probabilities of life's evolutionary steps.  That thousands of biologists the world over are, almost without exception, supportive of the general mechanism in which life can spontaneously arise on Earth, given enough aeons, is good enough for me.

A quick search threw up, this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
Obviously, wikipedia is only a start point for any investigation, but do have a read.


Peppercorn, I keep on saying that what I mean by proof is not 'scientific proof', but rather like mental proof, but for some reason, you keep on saying that I say they are scientific, why?

Though you have not said "My ideas should be taken as following scientific principles", you are indirectly agreeing to this statement by posting on a Science forum.  If you just want to express your arbitrary (from the point of view of science) beliefs or feelings then there is a 'Just Chat' board here for non-science discussion and light-heartedness.
« Last Edit: 07/09/2010 15:49:09 by peppercorn »

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #585 on: 07/09/2010 21:58:12 »
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"except in already living cells."
Yeah, I got that bit. It doesn't change my opinion.

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Yet you feel comfortable about neglecting those pieces of evidence which lay unread by yourself.
The world & esp. the internet is full of stuff haven't read. That doesn't mean I should keep a totally open mind on it all.  The fact that the is a huge body of scientifically competent biologists out there that can do the work for me (& all if us non-biologists) is what makes the idea of scientific progress so powerful.

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Can a jury make a fair decision without reading every fact that is present?
The key word here is 'fact'. In the case of our discussions that has to be scientific fact.  Simple as.   A worldwide community of respected biologists have already peer reviewed their way through reams of observation that points to evolution running the 'show' from the start.

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I just keep on repeating myself but somehow it does not get to you, it seems that your ego has overtaken you a little bit.
Certainly, I would never claim that I am immune to the temptations of 'ego', who isn't?  But, in my defence, I would never rule out the possibility of a creator, just as I would accept the remotest possibility that aliens purposely seeded the Earth. However logic tells me that these explanations are so as close to impossible as makes no odds.

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As I have seen logicality and a little bit of science in them, I decided to post them here.
I have to point out that nothing you have posted so far can be claimed as scientific in nature. I'm not saying it's beyond all possibility that buried on the links you've supplied, but unless you can quote it on here (please remember that it will need to pass the 'science' test for it not to be instantly dismissed) as I've said already I'm not willing to trawl through, sorry.

Finally, it's funny you should mention repeating myself as I have felt like my arguments are repeatedly bouncing off a rubber sheet.

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #586 on: 08/11/2010 17:45:25 »
got eeeem
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Offline CliffordK

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« Reply #587 on: 01/12/2010 02:01:56 »
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He SEES you when you're sleeping.
He KNOWS when you're awake.
He KNOWS if you've been bad or good.
So be good for goodness sake.
Oh, wait, that was Santa Claus....

Can you truly explain an omniscient being?
What is the chance that any single being could track what 6 or 7 billion people on earth are doing at any one time, and give individual attention to all 7 billion?

Now, we could be like bacteria in a petri-dish...  or perhaps like a dog to it's owner.  But, it would take a very faithful dog to be devoted to an owner that hasn't shown up for generations and never put out the food dish.

Perhaps we were visited by aliens...  or a race from Atlantis who possessed technology far beyond our own.  If modern man was to return 10,000 years in the past, who wouldn't be impressed by the ability to communicate over great distances, fly through the air, and spit death with a wave of the hand and a sharp bang.  But, does that mean they would be gods?

If you have a theory, and premise after premise is proven false...  how long until one must just consider the entire theory false?  There seems to be enough evolutionary evidence to indicate that all species of animals have evolved and changed over time, and many have become extinct, only to be replaced by others.  And humans are no different.

So, God didn't create all life in 7 days...  rather it slowly evolved from the bacteria and single cell eukaryotes over a 4 billion year timecourse.

Divine birth... or birthright.  King of Kings...  Shepherd over Sheep...  It sounds to me that someone just wanted to rule, and be revered, as is the case in many cultures and religions.

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« Reply #588 on: 01/12/2010 03:57:14 »
If you put a bunch of amino acids together, outside of a living cell, many proteins will be spontaneously formed and broken down every microsecond because of the molecular motion of heat. What a living cell does is to bias the probability that useful proteins will be formed.

The reason that creationism is not appropriate in a scientific context is that it involves belief in the supernatural. Because supernatural events cannot be detected, and their invocation can explain just about anything, the statements of a creationist are not trustworthy and, thereby, not worth any attention in a discussion that involves cause and effect or logical consequences.

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #589 on: 01/12/2010 11:48:30 »
These annoying threads keep rearing their ugly heads.
Even though the answer is always the same.
This one's been dead for five months now.
So to avoid sparking it back into life,
We shouldn't feel too much to blame!
[;)]
« Last Edit: 01/12/2010 11:51:25 by peppercorn »

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #590 on: 21/12/2010 13:46:24 »
this is a "HOT" topic :)
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Offline QuantumClue

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« Reply #591 on: 21/12/2010 14:01:04 »
There are scientific proofs of God's is existence, one of is the number Phi, sometimes called the divine proportion or the golden number.
Phi = 1.618

According to the book "The Da Vinci Code" (and this true), if you measure the length from the tip of your head to the floor , and divide that by the length from your navel to the floor,you get Phi. If you measure the length from your hip to the floor, and divide it by the length from your knees to the floor, you get Phi. If you divide the number of female bees by the number of male bees in a bee hive,you get Phi. "Sun flower seeds grow in opposing spirals, the ratio of each rotation's diameter to the next is....PHI.
Fundamentally, Phi appears in everything; music, art, nature, architecture....everything.
This (at least for me) proves two things;
1- Divine power definitely exists.
2- Only ONE God exists, otherwise we wouldn't find such an astonishing link between everything in existence.

This is not, in any way, proof of the existence of any god.  Sorry.

Yes, I agree.

Also, the Bee thing is a myth.

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #592 on: 21/12/2010 14:19:24 »
Phi lol, such a random word.
"hmmm what to call this astonishing connection..."
"idk how bout phi?"
"like what you pay?"
"nawww like p.h.i. that there sounds smart"
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Offline QuantumClue

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« Reply #593 on: 21/12/2010 14:23:15 »
Phi lol, such a random word.
"hmmm what to call this astonishing connection..."
"idk how bout phi?"
"like what you pay?"
"nawww like p.h.i. that there sounds smart"

No. It's a Greek Letter.

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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #594 on: 21/12/2010 14:28:21 »
well don't i feel dumb =p
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Offline QuantumClue

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« Reply #595 on: 21/12/2010 14:34:35 »
Don't, if you have never used it in any practical means, why be embarrassed?

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Offline cheryl j

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« Reply #596 on: 11/11/2011 21:38:26 »
I'm not religious, but one could consider God as not real or unreal, but a "model" that explains something to you about the mystery of existence, good or evil, suffering, love, etc. And I guess how well this model explains what you experience or observe, depends on your conception of this model or the qualities you endow it. Even our scientific models don't replicate every feature of "the real thing" that they are supposed to represent, although scientific models do a pretty good job of corresponding consistantly, or predicting events. Still, how many times has the model of the atom been redesigned?
« Last Edit: 11/11/2011 21:48:14 by cheryl j »

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Offline Titanscape

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« Reply #597 on: 21/11/2011 13:31:23 »
God is real, some used to like to think of him as being where everything must have come from, but accept the big bang instead. But even that had to come from somewhere bearing in mind oxymorons like before time.

But it is a bit narrow minded to think that sight and test finds the limits of all that are. Like "there must be a vacuum on the other side of a wall for I can't see beyond it."

I am a mystic, science is just a tool, not a spiritual philosophy.
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Offline Mjhavok

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« Reply #598 on: 21/11/2011 23:34:16 »
God is real

That is a noncognitive statement to me. I have no idea what you mean.
Steven
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In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Offline jameslancer33

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« Reply #599 on: 01/12/2011 09:48:25 »
I hope he is real. I think he is real. It seems he does have a big sense of humor cause of the events happening in my life.