0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The thing is that all measurements you can do by using the earth's clock and tube will be corrected by the speed of light relating you to the earth...

Further to comment from ArkAngel:-As I understand it Newtonian Gravity was used as the model when analysing the Pioneer anomaly. Newtonian Gravity is obviously lacking for this scenario as it does not take into account gravitational time dilation by our solar system.Mike

I am absolutely certain that my original explanation is correct. Either they haven't used general relativity, or they have done the sums wrong or general relativity needs tweaking.

The ephemeris programs use equations for point-mass relativistic gravitational accelerations. They are derived from the variation of a time-dependent, Lagrangian action integral that is referenced to a non-rotating, solarsystem, barycentric, coordinate frame. In addition to modeling point-mass interactions, the ephemeris programs contain equations of motion that model terrestrial and lunar ﬁgure eﬀects, Earth tides, and lunar physical librations . The programs treat the Sun, the Moon, and the nine planets as point masses in the isotropic, parameterized post-Newtonian, N-body metric with Newtonian gravitational perturbations from large, main-belt asteroid

"One can demonstrate that beyond 15 AU the diﬀerence between the predictions of Newtonand Einstein are negligible. So, at the moment, two forces seem to be at play in deep space:Newton’s law of gravity and the Pioneer anomaly. Until the anomaly is thoroughly accounted3for by conventional causes, and can therefore be eliminated from consideration, the validity ofNewton’s laws in the outer solar system will remain in doubt. This fact justiﬁes the importanceof the investigation of the nature of the Pioneer anomaly"...sorry, you cannot view external links. To see them, please REGISTER or LOGINIt would appear that the problem has been analysed from the standpoint of Newtonian gravity and surprise, surprise ..."the validity of Newton’s laws in the outer solar system will remain in doubt." Let's face it they haven't taken into account gravitational time dilation by mass have they?

I don’t need to do the maths to know that I am “talking in the right magnitude”. The anomaly is extremely small but real, just the kind of adjustment that gravitational time dilation should predict.

The fact remains as I said before The anomaly is extremely small but real, just the kind of adjustment that gravitational time dilation should predict.

Mike - you are starting to sound like a crackpot. I can absolutely guarantee that time dilation due to both relative velocities and due to gravitational potentials are taken into account within the calculations for orbital positions of satellites. You seem to be failing to grasp how maths and science is inter-twined, and the power of falsification; maths can support many ideas at the same time - but it can also rule out absolutely an idea that doesn't agree. As a very simple example - you are given an unknown function y=f(x)- and told if x=2 then y=4- the speculations abound ie y=2x or y=x^x or y=4 or y=x^2- all are potentially valid - but y=x^3 is not valid- you are then given additional info if x=1 y=1; two of the above are ruled out and two remainetc...The maths behind the theory is an essential part of the physics - without engagement with the maths all we have is pipedreams

Stick to what I have said and if you disagree say why.