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quote:Originally posted by mikeyOne of the characteristics of this reproductive process is that from time to time men and women feel a strong desire to perform this mutual act of reproduction. This is accompanied by strong emotions of attraction to the opposite sex, love, desire to possess or to belong, envy, jealousy, protectiveness. Often people find it difficult to resist or control these desires and emotions. Similar strong emotions are exhibited in relations of parents to their children. Similar emotion or instinct based reproductive process prevails among other animal species.
quote:But, in addition to emotions and instincts, the human species is endowed with reason and will, which allows it to control emotions and instincts. Human behaviour is a complex interaction between instincts, emotions, reason and will.
quote:This also applies to the reproductive process. In most human societies from the early times and up to the second half of the 20th century, all forms of sex related behaviour outside of the framework of heterosexual family were strongly disapproved of, and some forms of sex behaviour, and in particular homosexuality even criminalized. Often this was based on religious teachings, which provided the basis of social morality. Thus, in addition to instincts, emotions, reason and will another factor affects human behaviour - morality.In the 20th century religion-based morality began to be questioned, and the idea was advanced that homosexuality is not a sin or a crime for which a person is responsible and should be punished, but a "mental illness or personality disorder", for which a person is not responsible, and from which he should be cured.
quote:And towards the end of the 20th century the idea was promoted that homosexuality is not a "mental illness or personality disorder", but a normal form of human behaviour - or "alternative life style".
quote:So what is homosexuality?It is a behaviour in the course of which a person satisfies his sexual instincts and emotions by interacting with another person of the same sex.This is clearly self-deception and behaviour contrary to that intended by Nature or its Creator.
quote:So why do people engage in such unnatural behaviour? Are people born that way, or do they choose this form of behaviour consciously and voluntarily?Although it is normal for people to be born with clearly distinct sexual characteristics, it is possible for people to be born with abnormal sexual characteristics. This is similar to people with other congenital abnormalities, like absent, deformed or additional limbs, Siamese twins, etc. Some people are born with underdeveloped, malformed or missing sexual organs. Sometimes the sexual organs of a child are such that it is not clear whether it is a boy or a girl. Some people have inborn behavioral abnormalities. In some cases these abnormalities can be harmless both to the person and others, like a person with six fingers. Sometimes these abnormalities can present a serious handicap to the person, but not to others, like missing limbs. And sometimes a person with congenital abnormalities can be dangerous to others, like a person with violent uncontrollable behaviour.Yes, people can be born abnormal, but they are not born homosexual. It is meaningless to call a homosexual a person who by virtue of his birth is neither a man, nor a woman - in fact, such people are called hermaphrodites.
quote:Homosexuality is a behaviour, not a physiological characteristic. It is an abnormal behaviour of normal people. It is a result of lack of correct education, and often of corruption by others.Unlike animals, Man cannot rely exclusively on his instincts and emotions, his instincts and emotions must be controlled by his reason. This control by reason is not inborn, but develops through a prolonged learning process. Usually this happens in a social setting and starts within the family. Even simple instinctive acts like urination are subject to a lengthy learning process. Unlike animals, people do not urinate wherever they feel the urge, they do it in special places. The same applies to the procreational process (sex).
quote:With the religious morality in Europe and the Americas being abandoned in the 20th century, which lead to spread of unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, sex education was introduced in European and American schools.
quote:Originally posted by neilepNormal is difficult to define as I believe the answer is as unique to an individual as their fingerprints are. This is why I specifically cited that for self evaluation, to have to hand historical data that then portrays what is ‘ usual ‘ for the individual would be helpful.
quote:LOL …yes, I expected you would pick me up on that as my use of ‘gay embrace ‘ was way too subtle…it was a very mild subtle innuendo to maintain an air of etiquette which in this case plainly misfired ! 
quote:I am sure you are right about the notion of homosexuality in Victorian times but it of course was just as prevalent then as it is now. Except today it has very much come out of the closet.
quote:Originally posted by geckoso you say pedophelia amongst catholic priests is a result of them "not controlling their sexual urges"? id say quite the opposite. they put way TOO much control on their sexual urges, since they enter the priesthood they cannot marry or even maturbate! this frustration of "controlling" their urges because they are "unnatural" creates great harm to a persons well-being and more chance for perversion. people cannot will themselves to change theyre sexuality. they just cant. homosexuality is not self deception, trying to be straight because its "natural" when you dont feel that way is self-deception.
quote:The natural human reproductive process consists of a human male injecting seminal fluid discharged from his penis into the vagina of a human female. This leads to fertilization of the eggs within the womb of the female and eventual birth of a human child. This natural reproductive process of the human species determines the physiological and psychological characteristics of men and women, which are different and reflect their roles in this natural reproductive process. Similar differences between sexes exist in other animal species.One of the characteristics of this reproductive process is that from time to time men and women feel a strong desire to perform this mutual act of reproduction. This is accompanied by strong emotions of attraction to the opposite sex, love, desire to possess or to belong, envy, jealousy, protectiveness. Often people find it difficult to resist or control these desires and emotions. Similar strong emotions are exhibited in relations of parents to their children. Similar emotion or instinct based reproductive process prevails among other animal species.
quote:Homosexual women use their tongues, fingers, or similar objects as a substitute for a male penis.
quote:Originally posted by geckoanother_someone: if it seems contradictory, let me try to explain.i think in the case of catholic priests, sexual repression and limitation during sexual maturation cause their pedophilia. i dont think, however, pedophiles can change their sexuality after its been developed, any more than homo or heterosexuals. and relieving the environmental factors of not being able to marry or masturbate, wouldnt make a difference after someone has been repressed initially. so, the environment one grows in might determine sexuality, but no one can just will their sexuality one direction.
quote:Homosexuality in male sheep (found in 6–10% of rams) is associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and chemical activity. A study reported in Endocrinology concluded that biological factors are in play; this study replicated similar findings in humans. It shows that approximately 10% of males are homosexual and that the brains of homosexual males are different.
quote:The Volume of a Sexually Dimorphic Nucleus in the Ovine Medial Preoptic Area/Anterior Hypothalamus Varies with Sexual Partner PreferenceSheep are one of the few animal models in which natural variations in male sexual preferences have been studied experimentally. Approximately 8% of rams exhibit sexual preferences for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams). We identified a cell group within the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus of age-matched adult sheep that was significantly larger in adult rams than in ewes. This cell group was labeled the ovine sexually dimorphic nucleus (oSDN). In addition to a sex difference, we found that the volume of the oSDN was two times greater in female-oriented rams than in male-oriented rams. The dense cluster of neurons that comprise the oSDN express cytochrome P450 aromatase. Aromatase mRNA levels in the oSDN were significantly greater in female-oriented rams than in ewes, whereas male-oriented rams exhibited intermediate levels of expression. Because the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus is known to control the expression of male sexual behaviors, these results suggest that naturally occurring variations in sexual partner preferences may be related to differences in brain anatomy and capacity for estrogen synthesis.
quote:Originally posted by erichI feel this new study says it all:http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/05/08/lesbian.brains.ap/index.htmlno surprise, Like anyone would chose to be gay. But I like this study because one can extrapolate that sexual identity is a sliding scale. That very few of us are exclusively hetero in our hormonal sensitivity, although most of us are in our sexual behavior. That hetero, bi, and homo are very coarse and stigmatizing labels.
quote:Originally posted by ukmickyi still reckon its a genetic flaw
quote:Originally posted by another_someonequote:Originally posted by ukmickyi still reckon its a genetic flaw In evolution, there is no such thing as an error, only random variation. That the traits continue at around 10% of the population (very similar to that monitored in sheep), indicates that the genes that create such a predisposition are not of themselves harmful to the species (at least, not at the level it exists).Whether one takes a religious, or an evolutionary, perspective; to assume it to be an error is to assume that your own design of nature is superior to that which was created by nature or by God (whichever you would prefer). Nature has no concept of error or correctness, whereas God is supposed to be incapable of error.George
quote:There are a number of different causes of SCID. Each is caused by a different genetic defect, and each develops along a different pathway: X-linked SCID, the most common type, a genetic flaw damages molecules that allow T cells and B cells to receive signals from crucial growth factors. ADA deficiency results from the lack of an enzyme called adenosine deaminase (ADA) that helps cells, especially immune cells, to get rid of toxic byproducts. Without ADA, poisons build up and kill the lymphocytes.
quote:WHAT ARE THE FORMS OF LIMB-GIRDLE MUSCULAR DYSTROPHY?There are at least 13 forms of LGMD, and they’re classified by the genetic flaws that appear to cause them (see “Known Forms of Limb-Girdle Muscular Dystrophy”). By 2005, 11 genes that lead to production of muscle proteins had been implicated as definite causes of LGMD when they’re flawed. MDA research was behind much of the work that identified these LGMD genes.
quote:Some 7.9 million children a year are born with serious birth defects caused at least partly by a genetic flaw, such as heart defects, spina bifida and other neural tube defects, sickle cell anemia and Down syndrome.
quote:Originally posted by ukmickyI dont agree with you george and there are lots and lots of people much cleverer than me who also disagree with youhttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030516083103.htm I also do believe (according to peter tatchell) that in the UK the BMA class homosexuality as a mental illness. http://www-tech.mit.edu/V113/N62/cancer.62w.htmlhttp://www.sciencenews.org/pages/pdfs/data/1998/153-17/15317-18.pdfhttp://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1282176.htmlhttp://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=990CE7D8123FF932A05752C0A963958260 quote:There are a number of different causes of SCID. Each is caused by a different genetic defect, and each develops along a different pathway: X-linked SCID, the most common type, a genetic flaw damages molecules that allow T cells and B cells to receive signals from crucial growth factors. ADA deficiency results from the lack of an enzyme called adenosine deaminase (ADA) that helps cells, especially immune cells, to get rid of toxic byproducts. Without ADA, poisons build up and kill the lymphocytes. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25154 quote:WHAT ARE THE FORMS OF LIMB-GIRDLE MUSCULAR DYSTROPHY?There are at least 13 forms of LGMD, and they’re classified by the genetic flaws that appear to cause them (see “Known Forms of Limb-Girdle Muscular Dystrophy”). By 2005, 11 genes that lead to production of muscle proteins had been implicated as definite causes of LGMD when they’re flawed. MDA research was behind much of the work that identified these LGMD genes.http://www.mdausa.org/publications/fa-lgmd-qa.html quote:Some 7.9 million children a year are born with serious birth defects caused at least partly by a genetic flaw, such as heart defects, spina bifida and other neural tube defects, sickle cell anemia and Down syndrome.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11101963/so gene's which predisposes families to cancer or Schizophrenia for example are not genectic flaws. They are to me ..we are born to live and any genetic abnormality/mutation which prevents someone from living, doing the most basic thing in life is a flaw.We are given working reproductive organs for a reason to Procreate and anything which we are born with which prevents us from do this is a flaw and in my opinion gay people are born gay . Michael
quote:Originally posted by tanianMaybe it is testosterone related, or maybe it is just a wiring problem, exactly like dyslexia.
quote: It seems there could very well be a direct correlation between dyslexia and homosexuality, because it is all about perception, after all.
quote:Originally posted by tanianI think the argument that homosexuality is detrimental to the population growth has been well established here, so I won't waste time reiterating it. I will tell you I believe it to be an erroneous, detrimental, and therefore undesireable aspect of our culture.I personally believe it to be a mental illness- in exactly the same sense that epilepsy and dyslexia are mental illnesses. I fail to see how anyone could define them as anything else.That's not to say I have any prejudices- I truly do not, someone's sexuality is an irrelevance when it comes to contributing to society, but I do believe that nature clearly did not intend on giving these people children to care for (enter the political arguments over same sex couples as adoptive parents... fight amongst yourselves, I'll be over here...).There is an argument that homosexuality is a result of hormone levels in the womb - 'the fight to be male' - and the various issues that come with transforming an embryo into a fully functioning Wayne Rooney (hell he's so straight he sleeps with old hookers). Maybe it is testosterone related, or maybe it is just a wiring problem, exactly like dyslexia. It seems there could very well be a direct correlation between dyslexia and homosexuality, because it is all about perception, after all. To be honest I doubt we will ever know - who in their right mind would pursue funding for the necessary research with todays PC climate? One cannot offend the sexually dyslexic, even in the name of science 
quote:Originally posted by neilepAre you saying that like Dyslexia and mental illness's, that homosexuality is then treatable?...
quote: Who in their right minds is going to try and get homosexuals to be treated...I've never heard such a bizarre notion...they feel just as normal as you and I do !!....
quote:I do not agree that homosexuality is detrimental to the population growth....What about all the straight people who decide to not be parents? ...should they be forced to procreate?
quote:Your final statement where you say one can not offend the sexual dyslexic IS offensive !!....
quote:I think in this regard funding for research as to the nature of heterosexuality AND homosexuality could be beneficial so that misguided prejudiced people with their so called 'non prejudiced ' points of view may benefit from the results.
quote:Originally posted by tanianI truly do not, someone's sexuality is an irrelevance when it comes to contributing to society, but I do believe that nature clearly did not intend on giving these people children to care for (enter the political arguments over same sex couples as adoptive parents... fight amongst yourselves, I'll be over here...).
quote: can I ask you something?... For arguments sake, humour me will you ?....If it could be proved that being gay is NOT an illness would you then accept that ?...____________________
quote:Who in their right minds is going to try and get homosexuals to be treated...I've never heard such a bizarre notion...they feel just as normal as you and I do!!.... It sickens me that homosexuality is compared to a mental illness
quote: I question ones statement when people say they are not prejudiced and then go on to state that gays are gay because they are ill !!
quote:Originally posted by ukmickyHowever I personally find the act of homosexual penetrative sex between two males disgusting and wrong, and therefore find the people who do this act as disgusting and wrong, but the same has to be said about penetrative anal sex between a man and a woman which I find equally abhorrent. Anal sex is not something that evolution has designed the human body to do and has in fact caused the death of a number of individuals participating in it. In my view its nasty, horrible, dirty and disgusting and I wouldn't argue against it being outlawed.
quote:On a side issue in regards to the acceptance of homosexuality, it's weird how women seem to accept it more than men.
quote:It doesn't sicken me because a mental illness doesn't have to be something bad.
quote:One of the reasons homosexuality was dropped as a mental illness in the USA was because of the stigma which comes unfairly with term "mental illness". Many people think that someone with a mental illness is bad for society or someone who should be shunned ,and so they figured therefore that people would then feel that if homosexualarity remained a mental disorder then homosexuals would also recieve some of the prejudeces people recieve through having a mental condition.but in the real world they believe e 1 in 4 people are diagnosed with one form or another of mental illness and most lead normal happy productive lives . Lots of people do not even know that they have a mental disorder until it is diagnosed and up to then felt like there was nothing wrong with them, they felt normal and even after diagnosis they still felt normal. But what is normal?
quote:The population is getting older and not enough children are being born but I'm not qualified to give an opinion on this one so thats as far as i will go.
quote:If they could find a way too prevent any child of yours from being born gay by giving you a simple tablet which was totally safe to take would you take it. And if you wouldn’t take it would you protest against other people taking it.
quote:If one could take a pill that would guarantee that your child would be male, then a great number of people in India, China, and no doubt many other countries, would choose to take that pill (there is already evidence of extensive gender based selective abortions in those countries).
quote: they could find a way too prevent any child of yours from being born gay by giving you a simple tablet which was totally safe to take would you take it.
quote:Originally posted by ukmickyAnd if you wouldn’t take it would you protest against other people taking it.
quote:Originally posted by veteranIf we are to say homosexuality has something to do with geneiics then sexual intercourse has the same tendercy.like sexual intercourse it has to do with feelings but which are unnatural,thats why i often say gays are inhuman.
quote:To become a gay has to do with choice and desire and i believe has nothing to do with genes.
quote:On the issue regarding whether genetics has anything to do with people being gay there has been a number of studies that found just that. There have been a number of studies which found that if one Monozygotic) genetically identical twin was gay then the other had on average 50% chance of being gay too. Whereas (dizygotic twins) Twins who are not genetically identical had only a 22 % chance of having the identical sexual orientation.