[CliffordK]

At this point, there is a lot of testing done with cultured tissues, in part because one can use human cultured tissues rather than animal tissues.

There is also somewhat of a hierarchy of animals, with fruit flies and slugs near the bottom.
Rats and mice a small, but significant step upwards.
Very few experiments are run on cats and dogs.
And fewer still are run on primates, although primates may be the last step for drug testing before human studies.

I don't think animal studies are going away any time soon as there are some things that just can't be done with cultures.  Aren't some of the religious fanatics trying to limit the access to tissue cultures too?

A few years ago, PETA raided some university laboratories, and set their research animals "free" to starve to death, or be prey for other truly wild animals.  Is that a benefit?

[Airthumbs]

A few years ago, PETA raided some university laboratories, and set their research animals "free" to starve to death, or be prey for other truly wild animals.  Is that a benefit?

I completely agree there was no benefit at all in that case other then a temporary boost to the local ecosystem.  What they should have done was take the animals and re habituated them slowly into the wild and then when the day comes that animal will want to be free I tell you that, the door will open and off it goes to do what it evolved to do over billions of years.  [^] 

[CliffordK]

we ... hunt them for pleasure

Have you ever gone fishing?

Or... is it best to just let the big factory trawlers do the work of hunting and killing wild fish?

[damocles]

A few years ago, PETA raided some university laboratories, and set their research animals "free" to starve to death, or be prey for other truly wild animals.  Is that a benefit?

I completely agree there was no benefit at all in that case other then a temporary boost to the local ecosystem.  What they should have done was take the animals and re habituated them slowly into the wild and then when the day comes that animal will want to be free I tell you that, the door will open and off it goes to do what it evolved to do over billions of years.  [^] 

Not so sure about that Airthumbs. The sparrows around here choose to come into shops where food scraps are occasionally found, and forage there, sheltered from the weather, even though they are "locked in" nearly all of the time, and have little chance of escape. When caught and humanely "released to the wild", they usually quickly return. The notion of "imprisoned" is very much in the mind, whether it be a sophisticated human mind, or a bird brain!

[Airthumbs]

Sparrows are foragers by nature, it's what they have evolved to do and the most effective way to do it the better.  Give them free food for nothing and a place to keep warm of course they are going to take advantage of that. It is essential to their survival that they learn where the best places in their territory are for food, but it won't be happy if you put it in a cage and inflict pain on it!

Once upon a time I was digging a pond with a tractor for some wild ducks that lived nearby on a lake that roosted on a smaller pond nearby.  I had finished the digging with a team and was working at the edge of the unfilled structure when a group of wild ducks landed nearby.  They seemed quite inquisitive about what I was doing and soon discovered the fresh soil I was turning over had plenty of treats inside in the form of worms.  They would not come within 10 meters of me at the edge and kept this invisible barrier bewteen us and seemed very wary of me, I think they thought they were stealing food that I had worked so hard to get and were expecting me to defend my grub so to speak.

Anyway I decided I would try something, I picked up a worm and threw it at them, at first they were surprised but then by the third worm they totally ignored this 10mt barrier to the point that several times I had to stop my digging mid strike to avoid cutting the head off from an eager wild duck who was sticking his head into freshly dug soil!  Had I been very, very, very hungry; and you know some people do eat Duck as some do Sparrow  []

 

[Don_1]

There is a difference between animals which are held regardless of their will and those which choose to live in a man made environment. As Airthumbs wrote, it is not surprising that wild animals will take full advantage of whatever they can.

The release of lab animals into the wild is totally irresponsible. Not only does it put those animals at risk, but it can also adversely effect the wild ecology. In the UK, our Stoats and Weasels cannot compete with Mink, released into the wild by animal activists, and are in decline. Those Mink also pose a threat to ducks voles and other prey animals.

Even the release of native species, bred for the lab or the pet trade, can have dire consequences. Captive bred animals may have no resistance to pathogens their wild cousins carry. Similarly, captive bred animals may safely carry pathogens to which the wild population may have no resistance.

Animal testing IS NOT desirable, but, until a reliable alternative can be found, remains essential.

[Airthumbs]

we ... hunt them for pleasure

Have you ever gone fishing?

Yes I have gone fishing and the last time I did so is when two things happened on the same day..... firstly a fish took the bait and I pulled way to hard on the line!  The line went slack and as the fish had swallowed the hook all that came flying out of the lake attached to the line was it's guts!  On the same day I caught a fish and I used to hate taking the hook from it's mouth because the fish was obviously not happy about it.  The fish literally squeaked when I tried to pull the hook out. I dropped it in astonishment and then made someone else take the hook out.  That was the last time I went fishing and since then I have to agree with Spike Millagan, "Fishing is madness"!

It's a lot easier to eat things you don't have to catch or kill yourself and if all you have to do is go hunting in the supermarket you will have no idea of how an animal fights for its life when your trying to take it away.

[Bored chemist]

""Fishing is madness"!"
It's good to see that we agree about something.

[Titanscape (OP)]

Here is a quote from Peta:
"It's hard to imagine the violence inflicted upon animals trapped in product-testing laboratories. They have harmful substances forced down their throats and chemicals sprayed into their eyes and rubbed onto their shaved, raw skin—without being given anything to numb the pain.

What makes this intense cruelty even worse is how utterly senseless these tests are. There are non-animal testing methods that are better at ensuring the safety of both humans and animals, yet some corporations continue to abuse and kill frightened animals."

"Not one of the experiments that Lipton conducted was legally required for beveragemakers. But that fact has done little to deter experimenters contracted by multinational corporation Nestlé, maker of the Nestea brand of iced tea, from force-feeding mice tea ingredients before killing them. In one particularly disturbing experiment conducted for the company, mice were bred to suffer from brain damage and rapid aging, locked in dark chambers, and given painful shocks to their sensitive feet before being killed."

There should be two sides, I agree the suffering is bad, but is it unnecessary? Peta claims non animal testing is better scientifically.

[yor_on]

Cats into the fire to watch them burn? Debts we carry that others must pay?  More evidence of unthinkng bias than valid analogies.  Perhaps the author of this silliness is familiar with cats who fail to jump out of fires that are a valuable fuel source - anyone know how many BTU are in the avg cat?.  But it's not obvious how animal testing constitutes a "debt", who the creditor might be, what "others" must pay and in what currency. 
Entertining posturing but abolute nonsense.

You know Phil, you might be right in that I'm 'biased'. Life is very much eating, and living, of each other. But it's also a question of the ethics, and if it's necessary, or if it is just a lazy way of handling things, most probably a economic too for those involved in it. As for cats getting thrown into a fire it really happened, and is known historically. Absolute nonsense? Nah.

[Bored chemist]

"Here is a quote from Peta..."
And, just as soon as there's some evidence from PETA we can have a scientific debate.

[Titanscape (OP)]

I suppose there are some answers to come from veterinarians.

[CliffordK]

Here is a quote from Peta:
Nestlé, maker of the Nestea brand of iced tea, from force-feeding mice tea ingredients before killing them.

Tea leaves, of course, would fall under "GRAS", "Generally Regarded as Safe".
But, some of the instant beverages are quite removed from natural.  If I actually drank the stuff, I would be happy to hear that it didn't cause cancer or birth defects.

Many lab tests require histology.  But, perhaps some such as LD50 trials might not require histology.

Are PETA members volunteering to allow ex-lab mice to be liberated in their homes?