0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
quote:Originally posted by another_someoneI would have also thought that using wood for the levers would apply considerable local friction at the fulcrum, and at the point where the wood lifts the stone, which would quickly wear away the wood. This could mean that the life of any given lever could be quite short, requiring extensive wood supplies, as well as having to add the time and manpower costs of collecting that wood into the manpower requirements for the method in use. It is true that rollers would also require wood, but the friction on the wood would be more evenly spread, and so the life of the wood would be longer.George
quote:Originally posted by GordonPIt's a misconception that the Egyptians suffered from a shortage of timber, ample supplies were available in nearby Lebenon. Most of the the river craft on the Nile were made of wood.
quote:As regards the use of rollers the practical problems are many, the surface over which they must roll has to be completely smooth with no dips or hollows, each roller must be uniform in size and each one has to be the same diameter throughout it's length, each roller must be laid in front of the moving stone at exactly 90 degrees to the direction of travel, I could continue.
quote:However, the biggest problem is not with the practicality of rollers but the frailty of the human body. Stones can only be moved by the use of energy. The work done by an animal or man is due to chemical energy. While work is being done there is slow combustion or wasting of the animals body, this is repaired by feeding. The kind of work we are concerned about when dragging stones on rollers is unlike the kind of work we are used to today. Moving stones on rollers requires explosive energy, (the kind of energy used by a sprinter)irrespective of the amount of manpower available. Using this kind of explosive energy results in a rapid build-up of Lactic Acid in the muscles which can only be dispersed by rest. A workforce that spent more time resting than working could not have built the pyramids in the timespan required!
quote:SledgesWheeled vehicles were never widely used and for heavy loads they were not strong enough anyway. Giant statues and the like were loaded onto wooden sledges and dragged by large numbers of men. Smaller loads were also often transported by sledge. In the tomb of Petosiris (ca.300 BCE) there is a depiction of a mummy being transported to its tomb on a wheeled hearse, which was, even in this late era, unusual. The little naos following the hearse on the other hand was loaded onto a sledge. To facilitate the movement of sledges on packed, sunbaked soil, small amounts of water were poured on the ground before them, turning the top layer into a slick, smooth surface. More rarely the sledges were placed on rollers.
quote:The WheelEarly Man has the Cart Before the Horse in the Near EastOxen had already been yoked to the pole of a plow, probably early in the forth millennium BC, in the Near East. Towards the end of the millennium they are yoked to sledges, the latter being eventually mounted on rollers, then on wheels. Vehicles with disk wheels appear near the beginning of the third millennium BC and are depicted as drawn also by equids - either onagers or asses hybrids. The four-wheeled war wagon depicted on the "Standard" from Ur, in southern Mesopotamia, of about 2,500 BC, is pulled by a yoke team of four equids with nose-ring control. The composite disk wheels are made up of two crescent-shaped pieces of wood held together by slats, and very likely by a rawhide tire, shrunk on wet, of which some material evidence has been found. Apparent hub and axle ends and linch-pins seem to point to wheels that already revolved on affixed axles. By the time numerous horses were brought in from the barbarian north to the civilization of the Near East, a light chariot with spoke wheels had been developed for war and hunting. Yoked to it, the horse rapidly superseded other equids in harness for these purposes - although not for the less glamorous types of draft.
quote:I'm not an Egyptologist nor a scientist. I'm a part time inventor (Invention Website) who is intrigued with ancient Egypt, specifically with the construction of the Great pyramid of Egypt at Giza. Theories abound as to how this incredible structure was built. Some people contend it was built by thousands of slave laborers; others believe it was the result of the extraordinary intelligence of extra-terrestrials. The Great Pyramid is composed of 2.5 million limestone blocks that weigh two to thirteen tons each. The largest and most elaborate pyramids were built in a 160-year span between 2650 and 2490 B.C.; the Great pyramid was built during the 23-year reign of Pharaoh Khufu. Evan Hadington, writing about Pyramids in the "Atlantic" magazine, calculated that to complete the Great Pyramid in 23 years, it was necessary to set one block in place every two minutes during a ten hour work day, 365 days a year. How did an ancient civilization move the gargantuan blocks UP to the heights necessary? What ingenious block transportation methods did they use to accomplish this placements of limestone blocks in assembly line efficiency in order to complete construction during a Pharoah's reign? Most Egyptologists agree that the wheel was not yet around (no pun intended). The most popular theory is that flat-bottomed, two rail sledges (basically oversized wooden snow sleds) were used to pull the limestone blocks up clay/mud ramps (Fig. 1). Some theorists go farther and attempt to explain in detail how the sledges were moved. Currently there are two popular camps of sledge moving theories. One involves the use of long rollers to help move the sledge. Another entertains the notion that either water or oil was used to lubricate wooden planks that sledges slid across on their trek up the ramp. The Use of water or oil to lubricate sledge rails has merit as long as the sledge is on solid/level concrete ground as shown in the Egyptian "relief" in Fig. 2. The problem with this transportation method for pyramid building is that a clay/mud ramp would become dangerously slippery and wouldn't be practical for moving large objects weighing thousands of pounds up to great heights. Logic says that these narrow earthen ramps were hazardous when dry; they would have been treacherous when wet and muddy. To further complicate matters, most Egyptologists agree that a wrap-around coil ramp was probably used for the largest of the Pyramids at Giza (Fig. 3). Another theory suggest Egyptians used long rollers, but this seems impractical also. Men would have had to continually carry rollers from the back to the front of the sledge as it moved forward on a long, coiling ramp (Fig. 1). This method of roller use would be cumbersome because the rollers could easily roll askew (at angles that are not 90 degrees to sledge rails). This technology seem inefficient and crude for the ancient Egyptians who were ingenious and very precise with pyramid construction at Giza. Ancient Egyptian precision was of such caliber that, on many of the remaining casing stones still left on the pyramids, a razor blade cannot be slid between the stones after 4,500 years. Engineering of this degree hardly suggests inefficiency. I have a theory that is based on tools and simple technology that was probably available at the time of the Old Kingdom in ancient Egypt (3100-2181 B.C.). I believe the Egyptians used modified rollers and a modified sledge. The modified sledge, which was either "arc rail" or "four rail", would allow the rollers to "automatically" reset by gravity (roll back into place down the ramp incline to roller stops) after they were rolled over (Fig 3). The modified sledge and rollers would allow the limestone blocks to be towed up the ramp with less manpower and in a much more time efficient manner. This method would also help prevent damage to the earthen ramp from water or oil being poured continuously as proposed in one theory.I believe the rollers were spaced equally apart and utilized "roller stops" to reset the rollers for the next sledge or sledge rail. Gravity would automatically reset the roller after the sledge released it.U-Shaped channels, built into the earthen ramp, would constitute the roller track. The track would be laid out to cover the length of the wrap around ramp. The channels might also have strengthened by the insertion of wooden beams. The "U-Channels" would house the rollers and help guide the sledge up the ramp.My initial attempt at a "roller reset" theory used rollers that were longer than the width of the sledge rails. The problem with rollers this long that it would be very difficult to get them smooth and straight, in large quantities, and to maintain uniform diameter over the entire length of the roller. In other words, it would have been a rough ride all the way up the ramp. Using shorter rollers would have afforded the Egyptians a much greater chance of finding sections of tree trunks that were smooth, straight, and a uniform diameter-especially in an era when wood was probably in fairly short supply. The "U-Channels" would keep the rollers and sledge rails ona straight path. I have not found an existing roller theory that has considered the use of the short roller possibility.Arc Rail Sledge The arc rail sledge (Fig 3.) would ride on two rollers at a time, within the top part of the U-Channel, and thus produce a fairly smooth ride. The ride could be smoothed further by stabilizer bars in front and rear. If the sledge was tilted to front or back, the stabilizer bar would slide on top of the U-Channel to smooth out the ride until stabilization occurred.Four Rail Sledge The four rail sledge would have ridden on four rollers at all times and would have delivered a smooth ride. The key to the four rail sledge lies in the two rails on each side; the notch between the two rails allows the roller at the front ail to be released as the two front rails roll up onto he next set of rollers (Fig. 3). This would allow the released roller to roll back to the roller stop, and the back rail would automatically have its next roller available as it journeyed forward.Flat-Bottom Two-Rail Sledge Most Egyptologists agree that the flat bottom two rail sledge existed during the Old Kingdom pyramid era. However, these sledges would not have worked very efficiently with a roller configuration like the one proposed in my theory. The rollers would bunch up rather quickly because they are not released in sequence. This bunching would ultimately result in the sledge sliding over the rollers instead rolling smoothly. Direct supporting evidence for any theory as to how the huge blocks were moved is sparse at best. To date, no text or relief (chiseled drawings) have been found describing how the Great Pyramids were built. Most Egyptologists agree that the wheel had not yet been invented, and the first recording of large blocks being moved with wheels is dated about 750 B.C.-some 2000 years after the Great Pyramid was built. The first wheeled transportation was introduced until the Middle Kingdom when the Hyksos brought chariots to Egypt between 2040 and 1786 B.C. One must use indirect evidence to formulate theories as to how large objects might have been transported. A relief from the tomb of Djehutihotip (Fig. 2) dating to 1800 B.C. (800 years after the Great Pyramid was built) show 172 men pulling a huge statue on flat ground with a two-rail, flat-bottom sledge. Some type of liquid is shown being poured in front the sledge, presumably a lubricant. Another relief (from 1580-1588 B.C. 1000 years after the building of the Great Pyramid), known as the Tura Stele, show three oxen pulling a block of stone on a two-rail flat-bottom sledge across flat ground. Remains of clay ramps have been found at Giza and a mud ramp has been found at the Saqqara pyramid. Thus, sufficient evidence exists to conclude that ramps were used to some extent. The two sledge reliefs provide compelling indirect evidence of how the blocks might have been moved. One problem, as previously eluded to, is that both reliefs date about one millennium after the Great Pyramid was built. The construction of the Great Pyramid appears to be the crowning technological achievement for the ancient Egyptians, since most later Egyptian construction pales in comparison. This supports speculation that technological advancement slowed considerably after the building of the Great Pyramid and supports the assumption that relief evidence must be considered indirect. It suggests that some technology was lost in the 1000 years between the building of the Great Pyramid and the time that the two sledge reliefs were engraved. David McCauley, author of PYRAMIDS, and other Egyptologists have proposed that easily movable wooden rockers (much like my suggested two-rail arc-bottom sledge) were used during the final shaping of the stone at the top of the pyramid. The stone was transferred from the flat-bottom sledge to the rocker. One can easily ask why it would not make more sense to simple use my theory's arc-rail sledge to pull the stone up, thus eliminating the step of transferring the heavy blocks from transportation device to another at the top of the pyramid. A flat-bottom 2-rail sledge can easily be notched in the middle to make my proposed 4 rail sledge, and would also work nicely with my roller theory. My theory of two modified sledge possibilities and auto-resetting rollers could have easily been forgotten or lost to time during the thousands of years that passed before the first hard evidence (reliefs) of sledges emerged. My idea of two modified sledges is not dramatically different from the sledges and rockers most Egyptologists believe existed during the Old Kingdom. The use of rollers would have logically preceded the invention of the wheel. Even today, modern logic is diminished in the presence of a great pyramid. Exactly how the pyramids were built is still a mystery which endures after 4,500 years and humbles the modern mind when we consider our "progress".
quote:CanalsHis majesty sent (me) in order to dig 5 canals in Upper Egypt and in order to build 3 barges and 4 tow-boats of acacia wood of Wawat, the rulers of the Medja hills Irtjet, Wawat, Yam, Medja were cutting the wood for them. (I) did it entirely in one year, floated and loaded with very large granite (blocks) for the pyramid 'Merenre  -appears-in-splendor' . Indeed, I made a saving for the Palace with all these 5 canals. From the autobiography of Weni the ElderTranslated by Mark Vygus The first major shipping canal was constructed under Pepi I (6th Dynasty), when the rocks of the first cataract were pierced. This helped the Egyptian army to extend their hold on Nubia, from where raids had been conducted against Upper Egypt. The canal was also of economic significance, enabling the transport of blocks of granite and obelisks downriver on sizable ships. The canal had a length of 90 metres, was ten metres wide and nine metres deep, carved through granite. Senusret III (12th dynasty) ordered the excavation of a 75 metre long canal at the first cataract which had to be repaired eight years later
quote:Originally posted by GordonPHi, it's generally accepted that the labour force used for the pyramids was not slave labour but even if it was the following facts still apply.
quote:To move a 12ton stone on rollers requires a pulling team of around 50 men (I've done this experiment for real), the team pulled in the manner of a tug-o-war team, short bursts and short rests. After about 20 mins most of the team were about ready to quit. Energy was burnt rapidly.Double the pulling team and you will probably almost double the distance covered before burn-out, making a working shift of perhaps 40 mins. A long rest will then be required while the men lose the build-up of Lactic Acid in the muscles. I would estimate a maximum of perhaps 2 working hours per 10 hour shift.
quote:The distance from the quarry used for the building of the Great Pyramid at Giza is several kilometres overland (no water available)To build this pyramid in a 20year time-span requires the delivery of one block to the building site every 2 mins 365 days per year for 20 years.I don't believe this could have been done if the men have to keep stopping for a rest. See Egyptian
quote:The pyramid was constructed of cut and dressed blocks of limestone, basalt or granite. The core was made mainly of rough blocks of low quality limestone taken from a quarry at the south of Khufu’s Great Pyramid. These blocks weighed from two to four tonnes on average, with the heaviest used at the base of the pyramid. An estimated 2.4 million blocks were used in the construction. High quality limestone was used for the outer casing, with some of the blocks weighing up to 15 tonnes. This limestone came from Tura, about 8 miles away on the other side of the Nile. Granite quarried nearly 500 miles away in Aswan with blocks weighing as much as 60-80 tonnes, was used for the portcullis doors and relieving chambers. The total mass of the pyramid is estimated at 5.9 million tonnes
quote:The casing stones of the Great Pyramid and Khafre's Pyramid (constructed directly beside it) were cut to such optical precision as to be off true plane over their entire surface area by only 1/50th of an inch. They were fitted together so perfectly that the tip of a knife cannot be inserted between the joints even to this day.
quote:Though the three Great Pyramids are the most famous and prominent monuments at Giza, the site has actually been a Necropolis almost since the beginning of Pharaonic Egypt. A tomb just on the outskirts of the Giza site dates from the reign of the First Dynasty Pharaoh Wadj (Djet), and jar sealings discovered in a tomb in the southern part of Giza mention the Second Dynasty Pharaoh Ninetjer. But it was the Fourth Dynasty Pharaoh Khufu (Cheops) who placed Giza forever at the heart of funerary devotion, a city of the dead that dwarfed the cities of the living nearby. In order to build his complex, he had to clear away many of the old tombs, filling in their shafts or even totally destroying them. His pyramid, the largest of all the pyramids in Egypt (though it should be noted that it surpasses the Red Pyramid at Dahshur built by his father Snefru by only ten meters), dominates the sandy plain.
quote:Giza can be subdivided into two groupings of monuments, clearly defined and separated by a wadi. The larger grouping consists of the three "Great" pyramids of Khufu, Khephren (Khafre), and Menkaure, the Sphinx, attendant temples and outbuildings, and the private mastabas of the nobility.
quote:Also bear in mind that the problem grows expotentially with the weight of the stone. Just because you can drag 100lb it doesn't follow that ten people can drag a 1000lb (although they probably can these figures are just for the sake of arguement).
quote:Originally posted by GordonPNow back to dragging stones, use explosive energy and stones can be moved by a small workforce, perhaps 20 men per ton, but not for long.
The new theory is that the blocks were cast on site in moulds
Good morning ScientistsThe answer = the stones were laser cut and teleported by the Pleiadians from their spacecraft whilst on a visit to this planet because this pyramid structure was needed to be used as a transmitter to/from/with other planets and would have a 'strong' quantum effect upon all of the universes quantum movements.Consider the construction of the Pyramids as a hack into the original Elohim program, if you like
After one and a half year research involving also extensive scanning electron microscope (SEM), Barsoum's team discovered that the tiniest structures from the inner and outer parts of the blocks were indeed a reconstituted limestone. The binding employed for the limestone cement was silicon dioxide (the quartz mineral) or a calcium and magnesium-rich silicate mineral. The high water content of the blocks does not fit the normally dry, natural limestone encountered on the Giza plateau, either. Moreover, the blocks have an amorphous structure (with atoms disposed in irregular arrays), while natural sedimentary limestone is normally crystalline (with atoms disposed in a regular pattern). "Therefore, it's very improbable that the outer and inner casing stones that we examined were chiseled from a natural limestone block", said Barsoum. The presence of silicon dioxide nanoscale spheres in one sample clearly showed it was not a natural rock. The finding responds to many questions: why the blocks are so perfectly fitted that not even a human hair can be inserted between them; and why, if the blocks were carved, no copper (ancient Egyptians discovered the iron only very late) chisels have ever been discovered on the Giza Plateau.