Evidence for Free-will and Self evident Truth.

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Offline teknix

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Evidence for Free-will and Self evident Truth.
« on: 20/07/2012 06:20:38 »
free will
Definition of FREE WILL
: voluntary choice or decision <I do this of my own free will>
: freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention


past would present singular & plural will
Definition of WILL

—used to express desire, choice, willingness, consent, or in negative constructions refusal <no one would take the job> <if we will all do our best> <will you please stop that



Free will implies will

If is not a choice or chance at change and if the outcome and decision was already known and there was not anyway to change that outcome, then choice would be an illusion and

not really a choice at all effected by will, then the entire definition of will or free will should be broken down to the constituent parts, simply will. If will can be

determined then there is a possibility of free will through objective quantum randomness and the uncertainty principle.

The logic looks like this.

If will then free will.
Therefore free will.

If will then free will
no free will
Therefore no will.


If free will then will
free will
Therefore will

If free will then will
no will
therefore no free will.


Will = Free will.

Either there is a choice or there isn't a choice.

If there is any choice the universe is not predetermined.

If choice then will
no will
Therefore no choice

If choice then will
Therefore will


If will then choice
no choice
Therefore no will

If will then choice
Therefore choice


Will = freewill = choice.

Both will and free will are the same in choices / decisions.

Either there are choices or there are not, that is what it boils down too. You can change every time the word Will was used to Free Will and it will mean the same thing.

Will is illusory without a choice to be chosen. It boiled down to choice.

If we ran completely according to a script, then computers would have no problem emulating us.

For a predetermined reality, there would have to exist multiple universes, so that every possible outcome has already happened, within the present moment.

Then if the above is the case, we would be choosing which universe prevails into the present course or chain of events, which would still be choosing which universe to observe. SO even predetermination would not be evidence against free will.

Simply through the act of observation we choose and determine which universe will prevail into this now. If no choice is observed then nothing changes.
By choosing (observing) which universe is going to prevail into the present moment (now).
To observe or not to observe, that is the question.


    Observation in quantum mechanics

    In the Copenhagen interpretation, quantum mechanics can only be used to predict the probabilities for different outcomes of pre-specified observations. What constitutes an "observer" or an "observation" is not directly specified by the theory, and the behavior of a system after observation is completely different than the usual behavior. During observation, the wavefunction describing the system collapses to one of several options. If there is no observation, this collapse does not occur, and none of the options ever become less likely.

There is choosing from observing, by choosing which choice to observe that universe prevails into this present moment.

This choosing is comming from observation of the 4th dimension which is what quantum decoherence gives evidence for.


Decoherence does not generate actual wave function collapse. It only provides an explanation for the appearance of the wavefunction collapse, as the quantum nature of the system "leaks" into the environment. That is, components of the wavefunction are decoupled from a coherent system, and acquire phases from their immediate surroundings. A total superposition of the global or universal wavefunction still exists (and remains coherent at the global level), but its ultimate fate remains an interpretational issue.

Specifically, decoherence does not attempt to explain the measurement problem. Rather, decoherence provides an explanation for the transition of the system to a mixture of states that seem to correspond to those states observers perceive. Moreover, our observation tells us that this mixture looks like a proper quantum ensemble in a measurement situation, as we observe that measurements lead to the "realization" of precisely one state in the "ensemble".

Waveform (QM)


1. The four dimensional object behind the particle that has been subjected to wave function collapse. (by me)

"A total superposition of the global or universal wavefunction still exists (and remains coherent at the global level), but its ultimate fate remains an interpretational issue."

Can now be reduce to:

The waveform still exists (and remains coherent at the global level), but its ultimate fate remains an interpretational issue."

Carl Sagan showed how a 3 dimensional wourld would look from a 2 dimensional perspective. If we look at the fourth dimension from the third dimension it will look much the same as the two dimension object looking at a third dimensional object.

Logic is dedicated to half of the brain like determination is to half the universe (macrocosm).  Creativity is dedicated to half the brain as randomness is half the universe(microcosm).

Some self-evident truth in logic for existence :

If something is pondering existence then there must be existence.
You do not exist.
There is not existence.

If something is pondering existence then there must be existence.
I am pondering my existence.
There must be existence.

If thoughts then existence
no existence
Therefore no thoughts

If thoughts then existence
Therefore existence

If experience then being
no being
Therefore no experience

If experience then being
Therefore being

If Experiencer then experience
no experience
Therefore no experiencer

If Experiencer then experience
Therefore experience

If Experience then experiencer
no experiencer
Therefore no experience

If Experience then experiencer
Therefore experiencer

Experience = Experiencer = Awareness.
« Last Edit: 20/07/2012 07:04:54 by teknix »


Offline Emc2

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Re: Evidence for Free-will and Self evident Truth.
« Reply #1 on: 06/08/2012 00:44:50 »
One thing you have to realize, is that once any mass of particles ( matter ) reachees a certain volume of mass, it is hence bound by the laws of physics, because they are affected by the higgs field, and the higgs itself.  Until they achieve that level of mass, then yes they are not bound by those laws, but as soon as they are of enough mass, then e=mc2 applies.  And they are then "observable" and observe the laws such as gravity, time, speed of light, etc. etc.

 Matter behaves differently based upon the mass of any grouping of matter.  its that simple.  why this is so ? thats another discussion, and no one knows for sure, maybe the higgs will explain this better, in how the higgs field interacts and effects matter achieving mass.

  As far as free will existing or not existing. 

 You have choices, but they are limited, you don't have has many choices as a lot believe, but you do have the ability to "ovveride" per se, the programming, n certain circumstances.  Kinda like a software upgrade, or a new version.

 You see, the ability to "learn" goes hand in hand, with the ability to overide some of the programming.

 No computer on the planet would be built, that did not allow changes...it would not make sense, well it does not make sense in nature either.  All living things have the ability to ( Mutate ), and thereby re code the DNA, through these mutations, hence  rewriting the "program".

 Hope that helps you out.

never think that you have ever learned enough.....


Offline JP

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Re: Evidence for Free-will and Self evident Truth.
« Reply #2 on: 07/08/2012 03:01:45 »
Texnic, please don't copy paste content here that has been posted to other fora.