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quote:Originally posted by ukmickyAnd lastly the viscosity of the ferrofluid vastly increases as an magnetic field is applied so the ball would probably not be able to penetrate it or float to the surface.
quote:Originally posted by science_guymaybe if you did a normal fluid, without magnets, and the balls are passing through some sort of a funnel that will let the ball through one way, but will not let the water out. Any water spilled when the ball goes through can be collected in a drain and brought back to the top somehow. That requires no magnetism, and the only energy used to pump the spilled water could be generated by the wheel istelf, and excess energy will be used in whatever you are powering.
quote:And for the popping up, it could be easily solved by putting a board or plate at the top that will control the bounce with an angle.
quote:For the viscosity to increase you can't do it by compressing the fluid. Good luck compressing a liquid. The only way I know of changing the viscosity of any liquid (other than adding/removing a solvent) is to increase or decrease the temperature.
quote:A stationary magnetic field induces an increase in the ferrofluid viscosity. An additional resistance to the flow occurs due to the field oriented magnetic particles impeded by free rotation in a vortex flow.
quote:precourser thanks for updating my design!i am not to artistic lol
quote:OK But its not just a liquid its a ferrofluid full of (10 nm) particles coated with a dispersant molecular layer.Normally they are randomly placed but they join up into chains when presented with a magnetic field thickening up the ferrofluid making it harder to flow or for something to move through it.
quote:Originally posted by PrecursorJust to further discuss the ferro fluid design. Perhaps you don't need the ball(s) at all. Have the magnet at the buttom to produce the verticle surface at the bottom and have gravity forming the horizontal surface at the top and over fill it. The fluid will spill over the edge and take the plase of the ball following the path down untill it reaches the bottom where, under the influence of the magnet, will join back up with the main body. This would create a constant flow, a current in the main body that can be tapped.
quote:The biggest problem I see with this is the assumption that the only force the magnets will have is in the horizontal plane. Why would the magnets not also pull the fluid down towards it?If the magnet is powerful enough to stop the fluid from flowing horizontally out of the column, despite the pressure of the fluid from above in the column, then would it not also be powerful enough to stop the fluid from climbing up the column in the first place?
quote:Perpetual motion machines do not work!
quote:The ball floating up and being deflected and the ball dropping down and penetrating far enough into the fluid to sart to float up the pipe my guesss is that where it fails is if it makes one of these trigger points successfully it wil not manage to make the other ie the ball is too heavy to pop out of the fluid or too light for its inertia to allow it to penetrate the fluid.
quote:God says so!
quote:Originally posted by PrecursorMore than likely but that can be corrected by supplying a shield made of a ferrous metal above the magnet. Lines of flux (like electricity) follow the path of least resistance. The shield would offer that path for the flux above the magnet (the flux that would influence the ferrous fluid higher up the tube) since the plate would have less resistance than air.I thought of maybe making the tube longer but all that would do is introduce a geater wight of fluid meaning a stronger magnet.
quote:Originally posted by another_someoneif the magnet is capable of grabbing and holding the fluid sufficient that it will not leak out of the hole in the bottom, then it must also be able to grab and hold it so as to prevent it from travelling up the column.
quote:Originally posted by PrecursorNow you ask; If the magnet is strong enough to pull the fluid in and create a vertical surface, wouldn't it be strong enough to keep the fluid from rising? Well the answer is which attraction is stronger? A simple experiment. Take a magnet and stick it to the fridge (the stronger the magnet the better) and then try to pull the magnet directly away. Now stick that same magnet to the fridge and remove it by sliding it to the edge of the fridge. The stronger the magnet the more you will notice that sliding it off the edge is easier than pulling it straight off. The same goes for the fluid. It's easier for the fluid to travel away from the magent by travelling parallel to it than it is for the fluid to travel away perpendicular to it. This will make the attracting force on the fluid entering from the bottom stronger than the attracting force that would hold the fluid from rising. So the magnet pulls the fluid in creating an increase in pressure, this pressure is instantly transfered through the fluid (since fluids are not compressable) and will travel the path of least resistance. UP. So once the fluid enters at the bottom there is now too much and the fluid will spill over at the top, run down the tube, and get pulled back into the main body to repeat the cycle all over again.Now what I described had the north pole of the magnet pointing up and south pole pointing down so that the magnet was parallel to the fluid but the poles are stronger than the sides so it would be more effective if the north or south pole of the magnet ran perpendicular to the main body of fluid with one of the poles pressed up against the side of the tube.
quote:Perpetual motion machines do not work! there are two critical trigger points in the design. The ball floating up and being deflected and the ball dropping down and penetrating far enough into the fluid to sart to float up the pipe my guesss is that where it fails is if it makes one of these trigger points successfully it wil not manage to make the other ie the ball is too heavy to pop out of the fluid or too light for its inertia to allow it to penetrate the fluid.