This Is Not Theory - The Moon Hitting the Earth Is Real - Very Real!

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Offline Kryptid

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I know what a comet will do and I know how even they can explode b4 impact but how much damage would it do after taking away it's motion and it falling at the most lowest speed of free all

Even if you were able to take the Moon and gently set it down on the Earth's surface, it would still collapse. The major factor holding the Moon, Earth and other large celestial bodies together in a spherical shape is gravity, not the material strength of its substance. As a matter of fact, the major reason why they are spherical in the first place is because gravity is strong enough to force them into that shape. This means that the forces generated by gravity are strong enough to overwhelm the inherit structural integrity of the rocks and minerals that make these bodies up, causing them to break, stretch and morph until a low energy, overall spherical shape is attained.

So think about the rocky material that makes up the Moon. It is held in place mostly by its gravitational self-attraction. When you take the Moon and set it on the Earth, which has much stronger gravity, the material that composes the Moon will be more strongly attracted to the Earth than it is to the rest of the material in the Moon. This will cause it to break apart and fall towards the Earth.

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that's what I c the moon more Likely doing sins it's pritty much sitting still comperted to the speed it moves away from us .now if I was to watch over a hour the moon head to earth at them speed how many time would the earth spin .if the moon was to get here from where it is with in a year yes no hope at all , that's only 365 revs but if it takes 1000 years that's 365000 rev .its only take a couple 1000 house power to move the earth of it axis a little so the moon would be less....

Why does it matter how long it takes for the Moon to reach the Earth? The actual impact itself will last only a moment.

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And I sed about a super cooling to make the surface stronger

(1) How exactly do you think that making the surface of the Earth colder will make it stronger? If you put a rock in the freezer, how much stronger do you think it will become and why?
(2) How do you propose that this hypothetical "super cooling" of yours is created? Stirring up a liquid will add kinetic energy to it, ultimately causing its temperature to increase (assuming it isn't hotter than other surrounding matter such as air and stone). The temperature will become much greater once the Moon reaches the Earth's atmosphere. Adiabatic heating caused by the entry will massively increase the air temperature.

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they say b4 the first ice age they wasn't really much ice then some how have a ice age with cycles , so to me something happen on a massive long scale not a short scale .wouldnt the thickness and temp of the surface need to be charge permanently not a event smashing the surface apart rasing surface temps

So you think that automatically means that the Moon impacting the Earth was the cause of the Ice Ages? That's an unfounded conclusion. There are other more rational ways that the Earth can go through cooling periods such as clouds from large volcanic eruptions or changing ocean currents due to plate tectonics.

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Also what if the surface was cooler and thicker that when it did crack it was like when u step on ice and brake though where the ice brakes around ur foot but not under the foot leaving a hole peace with the imprint of ur sole on it

Once again, how does the surface being cooler help with anything? The analogy with ice is flawed because it assumes that the forces involved are relatively small. When two astronomical bodies collide, the forces are anything but small.

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now say when the moon hit it broke the same way but with  laws of physics of gravity around 0 sin  u got  a reverse gravity

Wait, how do you figure gravity is going to reverse? Based on what reasoning? One of the functions which affects the strength of gravitational attraction is the distance involved. As the Moon and Earth get closer, the strength of the gravitational attraction between them will increase exponentially (gravity is a square law force, halving the distance between two bodies increases the attraction between them four-fold). At the moment of impact, the attraction will be stronger than at any other time when it was heading towards the Earth.

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,so now laws of physics of motion is pushing out and exploding between the moo and earth .all I'm saying is just maybe ...... Maybe when u look up at the moon and c the round dark spots that make the man in moon maybe they r presser marks

Now you're invoking a magical explosion that can push the Earth and Moon apart? Where does the explosion come from? Do you realize just how much energy would be required to separate such large objects? You're going to need quite a potent energy source to create such an explosion. You'd also need to explain why such a titanic energy burst wouldn't massively damage the Earth and Moon in the process.

We can calculate the energy required to accelerate an object with the mass of the Moon to the escape velocity of Earth:

Ek = 0.5mv2
Ek = 0.5 x (7.3477 x 1022 kilograms) x (11,186 meters per second)2
Ek = 4.597 x 1030 joules

To put that in perspective, this is between 10 million and 100 million times the energy released during the impact of the Chicxulub meoteorite. It's estimated that 75% or more of extant life at the time was killed by that impact. What would an explosion millions of times greater in magnitude cause? Technically, the energy required is somewhat lower than what is calculated, since we are not sending the Moon off into deep space but merely raising it into a high orbit (~239,000 miles away). Nonetheless, this calculation demonstrates that the required energy to do that is still incredible.

We have a much more plausible explanation for the Lunar seas than this "Earth Collision Theory", and that is that a large asteroid impact pierced the Moon's crust in the past, causing molten rock to flow onto the surface and solidify into relatively smooth, dark patches on the surface.

You seem to be saying "maybe" an awful lot. That doesn't make you sound very confident in your own assertions.

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Also everyone talking about comets hit the earth, but they r high speed impacts ,the moon hitting will be a low speed impact witch makes all the differents .tap a peace of glass with a marble and most likely do nothing but throw it at the glass and it shatters along with the marble ,it makes all the differents

How do you know it will be a "low speed impact"? Have you calculated how fast the Moon would be moving? It's irrelevant anyway, as I explained before that the major force holding the Earth together is gravitational attraction and not material strength. A marble and a piece of glass get their shape and strength from molecular bonds. The difference is all down to scaling laws. The two situations are not at all comparable.

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What I'm saying about gravity is as the moon start to slowly move towards earth first the water wood slowly be dragged to below the closes point to the moon but with the earth still spinning below the water keeping it stured sand stoping it going hard,pressing the water cooler and denser than the deeps past of the ocean now.

Nope. Stirring a liquid will make it hotter (assuming it is in thermal equilibrium with the air). See what I said above. Also, water is very resistant to being compressed, so that's a factor that can be ignored here. By the way, compression makes things hotter, not cooler.

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when the moon get much closer it gravity on earth wood get much stronger .same as earth on the moons gravity .changing the way gravity is acting at the closes points of the 2 ,making earth act like the moon and the moon acting like having 0 gravity.

Nope again. I explained this earlier.

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now at some point laws of physics of motion on the earth surface would come in to play , sins we spin at 1650 kmh and if any object moving away from this planet at them speed it's only leaving earth

1,650 kilometers per hour is far below the escape velocity of the Earth (which is actually in excess of 40,000 kilometers per hour). Not that it matters anyway, as the Moon and Earth are moving towards each other in this hypothetical scenario and not away from each other.

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so now when the moon hit u got pressers and explosive forces pushing the moon away coz laws of physics of motion is trying to push the earth surface out coz of the lower gravity afect ,it don't need to be neat just got to work

This seems to be a summary of what you've said before, so I've already explained why this is wrong.
« Last Edit: 17/11/2013 07:00:29 by Supercryptid »
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Offline Missynmax83

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ok thats long so ill do bit by bit ....with the water like i sed it wood be like a super tide having it weight change by the moon so it can start to stack it self on top of it self . now the heighter it get it will get colder and try to freeze but being miked by the earth spinning (like a frozen coke machine)now every thing u say is true 99% and i know that but im talking about that 1% of maybe....the speed the moon coming does matter yes its will happen for just 1 moment thats all im saying them have to hold out for but hoiw long the moon gets here does matter sins it will give the moon time sitting in earth  atmosphere and in the very water cooling the earth. yes a rock will not get stronger in the freezer but im talking about is more like a length of hot steel or rock being frozen at one end ,after some time the cool will transure from 1 end to the other,with earth  that would be a thicking of the surface .now u r sayin how bi the explosion will be when the surfaces do brake .the differents this time its got a lot of water around it and we know what happens when u put a water pack on explosives comperd to no water pack ,so for the very 1st moment the water should be containing the explosion and directing 2 ways up and down........and it not the moon who need to not to have it surface completely shatted only earth making it go away with minimal damage
« Last Edit: 17/11/2013 11:05:07 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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ice age was a maybe and could be added with the rest

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Offline Missynmax83

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i know compression make thing hot its how a diesal engine works im saying water can be really cold when dense ,the deeps parts of the ocean show that . im not talking about the earth and moons gravity on its self im talking about what on them (water that does change )and maybe the surface and some of what under it will have the same affect happen ,now adding motion pushing out its adds more again

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Offline Missynmax83

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40000 kmh i know that but isnt that for going around the earth so ur side way force = u free fall force so u can sit a single height from earth .im talk about the presser behind the surface leaving the planet straight out. pressers now giving extra support to the surface (with it being thicker) 
« Last Edit: 17/11/2013 11:38:54 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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Also wouldn't there atomic try explodes in the same way a gun try atomic bomb works plus compression . when the surface cracks around the impact witch is  surrounded by water .and like the same way a comet can explode b4 impact couldn't it explode but this time is not just 1 chuck of matter its much bigger and over and over ,,,, for 1 moment u have a natural internal combustion event

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Offline Missynmax83

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I say maybe not coz I don't really think it could happen .i say maybe coz right now it seems to be only impossible but all it need to be is a maybe to possible of happening .to tell the truth intill a hour b4 wrighting on here I have never thought this could or had happened sins no one has ever sed anything about it .but after having a little look at whAt moon truth was talking about I thought it was possible and I want to work out if it can happen sins it can make sense

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Offline distimpson

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..The mainstream is stuck in the mainstream, with no way to get out, not without admitting they were wrong about everything in the past.

No question, "wrong about everything" is a tough sell, after several hundred years of effort the various accepted theories survive because of agreement with observations.

First question, how could this happen? As the other folks here have mentioned, a bouncing mechanism is not viable.

You could use a gravity simulator to come up with a mechanism but you would have to assume the work of Newton and others has some merit. I really like this site, !!caution!!, if you think science is fun you may find it very additive: http://www.testtubegames.com/gravity.html

Neglecting all other physical effects and making a lot of other assumptions, a"kissing orbit" may fit but I think that would have been noticed by now, so only offered here for fun:

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Offline Missynmax83

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kissing orbit does fit best ,and it proble has been notice many time but that is as far as it goes coz even b4 they look in to it they say the surface of the moon and earth wouldnt hold out so its desmisted and not given the time
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 01:30:24 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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also with the event of a mar size planet hitting us.if a eart quake can move the earth orbit axis by a couple of cms and if possable it would only take a couple 1000 horse power to move the earth .so if it did happn with out the object being part of ow orbit wouldnt it have massive afects on where ow orbit. wouldnt we  way to close to the sun or way to far from the sun .wouldnt that have massive temp changes not the little changes that we can c.also wouldnt it be a bit like it is with the moon ,u can jump a little but jump to much woooops.so with what im saying with a oject on a diffenent orbit hitting us wouldnt it be very clear to tell.the only other this would be earth had a second moon but again wouldnt to clear to tell...and if we where to be hit on ow side wouldnt we be aball to tell coz the earth would be out of sync with the other planets.....also so this would only be miner but as the moon spin around earth would the suns gravity have affect to .not much but a little bit of destorion
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 02:19:09 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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thing change all the time like just now it looks like they have find the olds life on earh wright here in outback australia . the life is 3,500,000,000 years old

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Offline Kryptid

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ok thats long so ill do bit by bit

When many points need addressing, that'll happen. I'd like to address all the points.

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....with the water like i sed it wood be like a super tide having it weight change by the moon so it can start to stack it self on top of it self . now the heighter it get it will get colder and try to freeze but being miked by the earth spinning (like a frozen coke machine) and in the very water cooling the earth. yes a rock will not get stronger in the freezer but im talking about is more like a length of hot steel or rock being frozen at one end ,after some time the cool will transure from 1 end to the other,with earth  that would be a thicking of the surface .now u r sayin how bi the explosion will be when the surfaces do brake .the differents this time its got a lot of water around it and we know what happens when u put a water pack on explosives comperd to no water pack ,so for the very 1st moment the water should be containing the explosion and directing 2 ways up and down........and it not the moon who need to not to have it surface completely shatted only earth making it go away with minimal damage

It should be pointed out that when putting an explosive in a bucket of water, the mass of the water is comparable or even larger than the mass of the explosive. This is nowhere near true for this case. For example, the oceans make up only 0.023% of the Earth's total mass and have 1.9% of the Moon's mass. We can probably visualize this better by imagining a scaled-down version of the Earth. Let's imagine shrinking the Earth down to the size of a basketball (about 24 centimeters in diameter). The deepest point the ocean on this tiny Earth, the Marianas Trench, would be only 0.33 millimeters deep. The thickest part of the Earth's crust would be about 1 millimeter thick. A sphere this size with the same density as the Earth would weight a bit less than 40 kilograms. 0.023% of 40 kilograms is 9.2 grams. So a basketball-sized Earth would have only 9.2 grams of water in all of its oceans. Doesn't sound like that's going to do much cushioning. This doesn't even consider that the water is liquid and would therefore be easily pushed out of the way by the solid Moon, allowing it to impact the crust of the Earth which lies below it.

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now every thing u say is true 99% and i know that but im talking about that 1% of maybe....

Maybe the Moon is actually made of cheese. Maybe the Earth is actually flat. Maybe Bigfoot lives in my kitchen cabinet.

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the speed the moon coming does matter yes its will happen for just 1 moment thats all im saying them have to hold out for but hoiw long the moon gets here does matter sins it will give the moon time sitting in earth atmosphere

As I've pointed out, it can't hold out for even a moment. The crust is too weak to support the Moon's weight.

Although there is no definite boundary between the Earth's atmosphere and outer space, an altitude of 100 kilometers is often cited as the standard starting point of space. 75% of the mass of the atmosphere is within 11 kilometers of the Earth's surface (the pressure and density are much lower at high altitudes). Let's go back to our scaled-down Earth. The 100-kilometer boundary is 1.9 millimeters thick, and the 11-kilometer boundary is 0.21 millimeters thick. This should be a good example to help you visualize just how thin of a skin the air is around the Earth. The scaled-down Moon, by comparison, is 6.55 centimeters in diameter (similar in size to a tennis ball). The thickness of the atmosphere is practically nothing in comparison. It's not going to do anything to stop such a large object.

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ice age was a maybe and could be added with the rest

Good. Let's go ahead and not consider that one further then.

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i know compression make thing hot its how a diesal engine works im saying water can be really cold when dense ,the deeps parts of the ocean show that .

The reason that the depths of the ocean are cold is because they are cut off from most of the warming rays of the Sun, not because they are under pressure or "dense" (density there is almost no different than it is on the surface).

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im not talking about the earth and moons gravity on its self im talking about what on them (water that does change )and maybe the surface and some of what under it will have the same affect happen ,now adding motion pushing out its adds more again

As I've pointed out, there is much too little water on Earth to do any significant cushioning, no matter how you choose to arrange it.

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40000 kmh i know that but isnt that for going around the earth so ur side way force = u free fall force so u can sit a single height from earth .im talk about the presser behind the surface leaving the planet straight out. pressers now giving extra support to the surface (with it being thicker)

No, it's not for going around the Earth. 40,000 kilometers per hour is the speed required to escape when traveling directly up and against the pull of gravity.

How is pressure going to give extra support? Adding pressure to a surface should weaken it, not strengthen it.

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Also wouldn't there atomic try explodes in the same way a gun try atomic bomb works plus compression . when the surface cracks around the impact witch is  surrounded by water .and like the same way a comet can explode b4 impact couldn't it explode but this time is not just 1 chuck of matter its much bigger and over and over ,,,, for 1 moment u have a natural internal combustion event

It would seem that your first language isn't English and I don't mean to insult you for that. However, this particular part is rather difficult for me to understand. If you can find a way to rephrase it, I would be appreciative.

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I say maybe not coz I don't really think it could happen .i say maybe coz right now it seems to be only impossible but all it need to be is a maybe to possible of happening .to tell the truth intill a hour b4 wrighting on here I have never thought this could or had happened sins no one has ever sed anything about it .but after having a little look at whAt moon truth was talking about I thought it was possible and I want to work out if it can happen sins it can make sense

Well don't worry about what MOON TRUTH has said, because his theory is imconceivable. Even if he is correct about there being perfect correlations between the features on the Earth and the Moon, it would actually be more plausible (even if it is also ridiculous) to assume that advanced alien sculpters created the features artificially. At least the existence of aliens wouldn't violate the laws of physics. I consider it most likely that his discoveries represent a coincidence. I would like to go on the suggestion of the others and check out the surface features of Mars or Mercury to see if correlations seem to pop up as well.

As far as what Distimpson has said about a kissing orbit, it simply doesn't match the observed way that the Moon orbits.

Here's another question to address: what is it that causes the Moon to come towards the Earth in the first place? Please don't say magnetic attraction as MOON TRUTH suggested, because it is completely unworkable. The Earth's magnetic field is similar in strength to a fridge magnet. If you hold two common magnets even a meter apart, you can't even feel the magnetic attraction between them. Now imagine placing them 239,000 miles apart. There is no way such weak fields over such a great distance can have any effect.

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also with the event of a mar size planet hitting us.if a eart quake can move the earth orbit axis by a couple of cms and if possable it would only take a couple 1000 horse power to move the earth .

Please give a reference for your 1,000 hp figure.

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so if it did happn with out the object being part of ow orbit wouldnt it have massive afects on where ow orbit. wouldnt we  way to close to the sun or way to far from the sun .wouldnt that have massive temp changes not the little changes that we can c.also wouldnt it be a bit like it is with the moon ,u can jump a little but jump to much woooops.so with what im saying with a oject on a diffenent orbit hitting us wouldnt it be very clear to tell.the only other this would be earth had a second moon but again wouldnt to clear to tell...and if we where to be hit on ow side wouldnt we be aball to tell coz the earth would be out of sync with the other planets.....also so this would only be miner but as the moon spin around earth would the suns gravity have affect to .not much but a little bit of destorion

The impact with Theia probably would have changed the Earth's orbit somewhat, yes. However, we have to keep in mind that the impact with Theia occured when the Earth was inhospitable and devoid of life. So even if it wasn't in the "right place" before the Theia impact, it only matters that it is in the right place afterwards.
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 03:47:12 by Supercryptid »
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Offline Missynmax83

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ok b4 i read all that u seem to can calculate better than me can u check some thing.now the moon is moving away at 3.8 cms a year so say sins its not moving its a bit easyer to work out from a start to a finish ....now protend to reverse time wouldnt under the laws of gravity, wouldnt the moon have would of be at the earth surface 2.55 billion years ago (give and take ) and like i sed b4 it loks like life was here 3.5 billion years ago

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Offline Missynmax83

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remember im doing this in my head and with a calculator

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Offline Kryptid

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Assuming that the Moon has been moving away from the Earth at a constant rate (which is probably not true, due to the inverse-square law attraction that gravity has), then 2.55 billion years ago, the Moon would be 96,900 kilometers away from the Earth.

I would also like to introduce the concept of the Roche Limit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit

The Roche Limit is the closest possible stable orbit that one object can have with a larger object. If the smaller object approaches within this limit, gravitational forces with break the object up and ultimately destroy it (although the debris can potentially form into a pretty ring around the planet). For the Moon, this limit is somewhere between 9,000 and 19,000 kilometers away from the Earth (depending on how rigid or fluid the Moon's material is). If the Moon were to manage to enter this region, it wouldn't survive.
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 04:31:25 by Supercryptid »
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Offline Missynmax83

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what about the earth being pulling to the moon

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Offline Missynmax83

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the moon is 60% the density of earth

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Offline Missynmax83

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thats also go with what im sayin about how the surfaces mite hold out ...we know it dont matter if it is a solid liquid or gas every thing have resistions and cant just instenly join

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Offline Kryptid

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Perhaps I should have put the thing about the Roche Limit in a new post. You should go back and take a look at the edit to my earlier post.

If we assume that the Moon slowly spirals inwards towards the Earth in a decaying orbit, it will pass through the Roche Limit and break up. That's another reason MOON TRUTH is wrong.
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Offline Missynmax83

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i c that and i have only had a quick think on that but i was focust first on the earth surface but what going thought my head is how far the atmosphere would be expanded outwards ,sin u have a liquid body moving around the earth dragging air with it after a bit it mite start looking the jupiter ring ,now with massive wind speeds. the presser of the air mite start to rise the atmophere 1000s of kms .this winds wood be oing 1650 kms making a vacuum afect at the poles areas to add more air ....remember this air is being cool as it passes the water
 

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Offline Missynmax83

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and thats if the moon doent have a tide like afect on air if it does it would much easyer for the air to do this ......and maybe not 1650 kmh but it will be trying to

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Offline Kryptid

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How is that supposed to make this Moon impact event more likely? I've already pointed out that the oceans and atmosphere are too shallow and lightweight to stand any shadow of a chance at stopping the likes of the Moon.
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Offline Missynmax83

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like i sed it more about the earth surface surviving more than the moons surface .i do c the moon braking but with winds of them speed the peaces braking u mite be pushed to the side but the point is the moon will come in contact with a cool force early than normal ,then sit in most of the earths water and when it hit and brakes around the impact spot witch is surounded by water ..it would explode like a firecracker in a close fist and not like cracker going off in a open hand big differents......................and justy to let u know english is my first language i live in australia born and bread but i left school in year 8 and teached mky self to read and wright coz school didnt help my much
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 05:23:52 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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anyway so 2.55 billion years age the moon could of been 3/4 of its way here so that would mean 3.18 billion years ago(not including acceleration of the moon or the earth acceleration to the moon) the moon was at earth surface ...well it looks like life was around b4 that and that dont match up witch the moon being maked by a impact on earth .

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Offline Kryptid

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If I must, I will summarize once again why the Earth's surface cannot survive this:

(1) The crust is not strong enough to hold the weight of the Moon (much less an explosion powerful enough to push it back out into orbit). It is held together more by gravity than by molecular bonding strength.
(2) The water and air of the Earth, regardless of how fast they may be moving, how cold they are or how you choose to arrange them, simply lack enough force/density/quantity to make any difference. Don't forget that if you were to shrink the Earth down to the size of a basketball, the atmosphere and oceans would represent a thin, millimeter-scale skin around it. That's nothing to a baseball-sized object like the mini-Moon.
(3) Remember that energy quantity I calculated earlier? 4.597 x 1030? It turns out that the actual explosion would probably need to be very much more energetic than that. This is because my calculation made a simplified assumption that the explosion would somehow be able to transform all of its energy into the kinetic energy of the Moon. In reality, a large percentage of the energy would not be available to do this. A lot of it would go into heating and melting the surfaces of the Earth and the Moon. Some would go into blowing part of the atmosphere off. Some would go into generating shockwaves, sound waves and fissures. If we want to push the Moon away, we need much more energy than the original calculation. This is doubly true because we not only need to push the Moon to near the escape velocity of the Earth, but we also need to be able to stop it cold (since it would be moving towards the Earth at the moment of impact and thus would have a considerable amount of kinetic energy that would need to be overcome). Even if the Moon were moving at a snail's pace of 10 meters per second when it reached Earth, that's still going to be 3.67 x 1024 joules of kinetic energy to overcome. This is comparable to the Chicxulub meteorite impact. In any realistic scenario, the Moon will be travelling much, much faster than 10 meters per second upon impact.

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anyway so 2.55 billion years age the moon could of been 3/4 of its way here so that would mean 3.18 billion years ago(not including acceleration of the moon or the earth acceleration to the moon) the moon was at earth surface ...well it looks like life was around b4 that and that dont match up witch the moon being maked by a impact on earth .

My mistake. I made a faulty assumption in my original calculation. The Moon would actually be 96,900 kilometers closer to Earth 2.55 billion years ago. That wasn't the absolute distance. The actual distance is 142,100 kilometers away from Earth. So now that I've identified that error, let me calculate the distance for 3.18 billion years ago. Turns out it is 120,840 kilometers closer than it is now (an absolute distance of 118,160 miles away). These calculations actually suggest that it would be about 6.29 billion years ago when the Moon and Earth were together. However, I would like to strongly emphasize that the speed that the Moon is moving away from the Earth has almost certainly changed over time, making all of these figures wrong.
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Offline Missynmax83

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going by 6.29 billion that would mean the moon would arrive only 2.5 x quicker than when it left ,and still that dont match the 4.5 billion years that the gaint impact was ment to happen .plus with it leaving earth the basic rule of what goes up must come down

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Offline Kryptid

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Just in case you missed my final sentence in my last post, I will repost it:

However, I would like to strongly emphasize that the speed that the Moon is moving away from the Earth has almost certainly changed over time, making all of these figures wrong.

As far as "what goes up must come down" goes, you are right. The Moon is eventually predicted to stop moving away from us and begin to have its orbit decay until it comes into the Roche Limit and breaks up. However, this is currently estimated to happen billions of years from now.
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Offline Missynmax83

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i didnt miss it just to me the likely hood of a second gaint impact hitting the moon changng it speeds is more unlikly than the moon was formed the same way planet and sun r formed

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Offline Missynmax83

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now if i had a block of ice and had it sitting on a rock for millions of year u cant tell me the cool temp wasnt be transfured thought the rock,,,,,so what im say is the cooling on the surface would transfur into to the upper lay of the earths core changing past of it from a liquid to a solid or semi soild

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Offline Missynmax83

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also when the moon got so close to the earth and the earth blocked the sun wouldnt the temp of the visible side of the start to act like the dark side dropping down to around -153 c for millions of years
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 07:52:18 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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Will the oceans being cool coz of no sun light there will no even less chance of sun light when they so much water build up coz of the extra affect of the moons gravity

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Offline Kryptid

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i didnt miss it just to me the likely hood of a second gaint impact hitting the moon changng it speeds is more unlikly than the moon was formed the same way planet and sun r formed

That's not the proposed way that the speed would have been changed. The reason its speed of movement away from the Earth has changed is because of the pull of Earth's gravity. Over time, the pull from the Earth would have slowed the Moon down to its current speed of 3.82 centimeters per year. In the past, the Moon had more kinetic energy and thus would have been moving away from the Earth more quickly. It has nothing to do with a second impact.

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now if i had a block of ice and had it sitting on a rock for millions of year u cant tell me the cool temp wasnt be transfured thought the rock,,,,,so what im say is the cooling on the surface would transfur into to the upper lay of the earths core changing past of it from a liquid to a solid or semi soild

Yes, it will transfer. At least initially. It all depends on the specific parameters (the masses of the ice and the rock, their shapes, the temperature of the environment that they are in, etc.). In principle, cooling on the Earth's surface would cool its interior as well. However, the change in temperature will be extraordinarily small. Most probably too small to detect with current technology. If you want to cool the core, you'll have to move heat out of the core. This is happening right now (since the Earth is not a perfect thermal insulator). However, it is happening extremely slowly as the main source of heat escaping from the planet is in the form of volcanic eruptions.

Still, you should consider the numbers. You want to cool the crust with icy-cold water. Don't forget that the oceans only make up for 0.023% of the Earth's total mass. The lithosphere (the crust and upper mantle) makes up around 2.2% of the mass. The lower mantle is 68.4%. The core is 27.5%. If you are going to try to cool down the crust, you should remember that you have all of that heat in the interior working against you. You're trying to cool the crust with 0.023% of the Earth's mass while more than 95% of the Earth's mass is trying to heat it up from the other side. You'll also need to consider just how hot the interior is. The mantle ranges from 500 - 4,000 degrees Celsius (the deeper you go, the hotter it gets), the outer core from 4,400 - 6,100 degrees Celsius, and the inner core 5,430 - 5,960 degrees Celsius. The interior has the clear advantage.

Go back to my original shrunken Earth. This is equivalent to trying to cool a mass of hot rock and metal (ranging from 500 to 6,100 degrees Celsius) weighing 17 kilograms with 9 grams of water or ice. If you put 9 grams of ice onto this, what's going to happen? It's going to melt very quickly and will have no obvious impact on the temperature or solidification of the rock.

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also when the moon got so close to the earth and the earth blocked the sun wouldnt the temp of the visible side of the start to act like the dark side dropping down to around -153 c for millions of years

The Earth already can block out the Sun on the Moon. It's called a lunar eclipse. The only way that you can have a permanent lunar eclipse would be if the orbital period of the moon were adjusted in such a way that it took 1 year to go around the Earth. Normally it takes 1 month. In order to achieve this, it would have to be placed much further away from the Earth than it currently is. This is the opposite of what you want to accomplish.

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Will the oceans being cool coz of no sun light there will no even less chance of sun light when they so much water build up coz of the extra affect of the moons gravity

Doesn't matter. Even if the entire world oceans were as cold as ice, they simply do not have the mass required to compete with the thermal influence of the Earth's interior. I demonstrated this earlier.
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 08:36:38 by Supercryptid »
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Offline Missynmax83

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At the start I all ways was talking about cool the areas around about the equator not the whole planet .now with that in mine it's only cool parts of earth and ceiling volcanos in them areas but leaving polar area to stay active and open more up to release presser and heat .also keeping it live aball for life in same areas .iv always been talking about a ring of super cooled surface
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 14:15:06 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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With the moon I'm talking more about how the time the moon visible face has sun light will become less and less

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Offline Missynmax83

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Ok with how long for the moon to get here  sorry my folt. I thought u was talking about something different .i know what u r talking .im talking about the same thing I'm trying to work out .all I'm aball to work out right now is if we r at the last 1% of the cycle not including the earth moving toward the moon it would by around the 2.55 billion mark
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 14:11:43 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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Ok iv been thinking .... first I want to start with the moon forming ,maybe the moon did brake off earth but not after it had formed but at the start and not coz of a giant impact. Now b4 I get on that .wouldnt after a gaint impact happen and b4 it been given a orbit wouldn't it follow the stronger gravity no matter where it sits but with the moon it line with the solar system not the earth axis .witch is fun coz the earth gravity should be stronger.now we know the earth and moon r related like family in what it's made of so what if when the earth formed maybe oxidation on the iron around the core made it weaker and a little bit uneven making it off weigh and egg shaped with the tip broke off as it was spinning (making twins ) this way once split the afect of the sun gravity would be the main building for the moons orbit around earth coz of the strength of the suns gravity....... Now the second think I thought ,when I was looking at moon truth pic he was talking about.yes I could c what he was going on about but the moon was about 2/3 the size of earth (by the pic I saw)so this is a bit crazy but what if when the moon start to get really close and hits the Roche point instead of just braking up it does something different .now the moon is related To earth in what it's made of ,now the moon is 60% density of earth but only at 1/4 the size of earth .so maybe as earth gravity start to have the  same afect on the moon as the earth gravity on earth , so insted of 1 braking up what if the moon start trying and act the same way as earth and baloon out to match the denity to size as earths witch would be around 60% or 2/3 of earth.also that could have a jelly afect making it rest better on earth for earth to not conlapes and be aball to try and flick it off earth surface.now if the temp of the moon is the reason for the smaller size then the soild state of it is much stronger than if it was the same thickens as earth .plus being smaller it will be stronger and much harded to join the earth b4 lossing it's motion and earth spinning pushing it back out
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 14:27:52 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline RD

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[attachment=18197]

How about using a spellchecker ?, (your internet browser probably has one built-in) .
A paragraph now and again would be welcome too, rather than an incomprehensible stream of consciousness.
« Last Edit: 18/11/2013 18:35:00 by RD »

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Offline Kryptid

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Your arguments are all wild speculation. You keep saying "maybe" and "what if". I think I have sufficiently explained why the scenario is impossible. I suggest you start doing some scientific research and math to support your ideas. It's ultimately up to the theorist to prove his ideas and not the detractors to disprove them. Until you can present a compelling case that demonstrates that the numbers can support your assertions, I think I'm done here.
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Offline Missynmax83

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I'm on my phone .my theory ONLY start about a hour b4 my first post .i havnt been thinkijng about for years.my theory is happen as we speak ,so sorry if its not straight forward as u like but isnt that how this stuff happen to work out if something is possible or not  ............................im just trying to make sense of moon truth pic of the moon having to be much bigger at impact  .:...ok I'll sit down for a sec jump on the computer and look around...plus i thought with possible evidence .that all this r possible in till proven impossible.............now yes u have proven many time over and over how the moon couldnt of hit the earth but all ofb them r under current conditons and not under possible changing condtions ...even if there was only a 1% change at importent stages there could be chain reactions that having diffenent affect at a larger scale.i though truth finding was about being open to all possibles if evidence show even a slite chance.yes pyhics is pyhics but we r still only just scratching the surface of it .in 10 years time there will be things we dont know now and thing we think is right now will not be right later
« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 05:58:46 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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Ok have a quick look but in not going to stick with this ... If I was u use the expansion theory for gravity at the time of the moon expanding the gravity would increase above its natural limits when ballooning out and increasing speed at the last stages b4 impact ..now when it has reach = size denity at earth the moon natural limits of the moons gravity would try to bring the moon back to its normal size .... By that theory that would mean at that time the gravity would hugely decreace or Even reverses ....... Now I'm not going to stick with that .but what do u c a 0 gravity mass or even reversed gravity mass do spinning around the earth.........plus i was just having a quick look at wiki about the inner core and i saw this ............Speculation also continues that the inner core might have exhibited a variety of internal deformation patterns. This may be necessary to explain why seismic waves pass more rapidly in some directions than in others. Because thermal convection alone appears to be improbable,[24] any buoyant convection motions will have to be driven by variations in composition or abundance of liquid in its interior. S. Yoshida and colleagues proposed a novel mechanism whereby deformation of the inner core can be caused by a higher rate of freezing at the equator than at polar latitudes,[25] and S. Karato proposed that changes in the magnetic field might also deform the inner core slowly over time.............also if the moon was that close for some time it would have an affect on the magnetic field
« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 05:59:03 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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Now that mite help me with what I'm try to make work,,,,, but I don't think expansion theory is the key sins that would mean that gravity isn't aball to be man made .....and for me that go against a idea I have of making a man made core witch I'm 90% shore would work after looking and thinking for years about the behavior of nuclear ,iron and nickel and adding 1or 2 other things with there behaviors that i think r missing  from what we know the core is made of.......................: now how about if the moon was to expand  coz of the affect of earth gravity making it act like on earth .     now with the moon resting on earth the rest of the moon mass start to catch up but instead of braking thought the earths surface it's start to stink back to its normal state triggered by a low level compressed whe pressing on earth .its only possible coz of the original state of the moon and it's relation with earth and not possible for any other planet or moon to do the same here.... Earths gravity mine release the denity to full size. witch mite ..now when it lands on earth the release of denity has only just happen and has not settled allowing it to be aball to contract with much lease presser than normal .now if there is any volcanos on the dark side of the moon they would also help to release presser ...the ballooning affect would help rejuice how the moon would be sitting in earth atmosphere ..... Now u have sed for me to prove this but intill we get to findly c a event like this , there no way of knowing for shore but for now all we can do is look for evidence of it happening b4 ...........then go to what moon truth pic show witch look like possible evidence .so coz of that we should ashoom the possiblely and use what we know to lay the road block and c if we can find a way around them with out them being possibles
« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 04:42:21 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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now i do have a possible way that the moon and earth could have a 0 gravity affect on each other when coming so close to each other but that works only with a theory of gravity of mine.my theory isnt wild and it works with my core idea and my core work with my idea of gravity.its really a daaaaa of course it is ,sort of thing coz its not a hard to belive idea of space been pulled or the almost impossible expansion.it briges both of the theorys of gravity but can be so basic to show a 10 year old in science class.now what if i sed directing a gravity or building a worm hole like tunnel or even be aball to fly in to a black hole and come back out was basic physics as heat water it will boil ...and it could be as simple to build as a car engine and not almost impossible as trying to find a way to bend space it self
« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 04:06:57 by Missynmax83 »

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Offline Missynmax83

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and b4 u ask how can u go into a black hole ....its coz my theory mean gravity has nothing to do with bending space meaning a black hole has a simple relation with every thin around us  ....and with making a core it wouldnt be much of a step to cositter making a man made black hole

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Offline Missynmax83

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and sorry RD but i really did teach my self to read after i left school and it hard to even read over what i have wrote on my iphone b4 i post

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Offline Kryptid

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Ah shoot, I just realized how old this thread is. That's a shame. I was hoping MOON TRUTH might actually come out of the wood works and say something.
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Offline Missynmax83

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Me to .... Can I ask u a question , supercryptid ..what r u , uni student or teacher ?

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Offline Kryptid

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I graduated from college a while back. I have a Bachelor of Science degree in biology. Even though I'm not a teacher, I've considered it and may some day choose that route (as of now I work for UPS).

Let's not dwell too much on that in this thread, though. I don't want to get scolded by the moderators for going off-topic.
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Offline Missynmax83

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That's ok I just wanted to know how much u would know ..got one more for u what would happen if at the finial state when the moon was much closer , that when the moon past the sun for longer than now the earths and sun gravity on each other was blocked allowing the earth to go off orbit a little bit moving away from the sun ...,.2 now how would the Roche point act if there was a some what event on both where there gravitys start to cut in and out and at some points have 0 gravity ....please don't really ask how that could happen coz I don't want to talk on a open blog about that I wood like to only talk to the people that I should be talk to about how that can happen .but just think for a sec it can

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Offline Kryptid

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Gravity can't be blocked in that fashion.

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please don't really ask how that could happen coz I don't want to talk on a open blog about that I wood like to only talk to the people that I should be talk to about how that can happen .

I find this a strange statement. You make it sound like there is some kind of danger in discussing this.
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Offline Missynmax83

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I don't think it could be blocked like blocking light but I'm talkng about it being dictorbed and have gravity cutting in and out or changing streight .my theroy wood mean that a mini active core would be aball to be made out of common matirals for most of it .it would only be the power source that's has strict control .but a sub active core could be possible but gov, uni and even mayor industry witch is to many people aball to play around with out a full set of rules on safety layed Down.i have left this theroy alone for 10 years and I will let it alone for the rest of my life than to let it be open to anyone to test .i know this should only be tested by the right people .imagine some uni kids .a company or even a falled state making a full or sub active core with no knowing on how it's working and no knowing of any fall safe way of controlling it  .... The only words and sorry b4 I say that .but **** that .this is not about anything but the greater good .to tell the truth all this haunt me and stops me from fully injoy my life so I think I need to deal with it
« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 11:16:13 by Missynmax83 »