Were the Lunar Rovers faked?

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #100 on: 15/11/2013 13:19:43 »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/6105902/Moon-rock-given-to-Holland-by-Neil-Armstrong-and-Buzz-Aldrin-is-fake.html

Possible explanation : after the moon rock was given to Holland someone stole it and switched it a terrestrial one , (who could tell a switch had taken place , except a geologist ).

If you are suggesting Neil was distributing fake moon rocks, then all the specimens he gave out would be dummies, dummy. 

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #101 on: 15/11/2013 13:20:33 »
Its just not possible for light from the Sun to create a "hotspot" on Aldrins boot where he is. There is only one explanation for this "hotspot" and that is from a studio light, there were no flash bulbs or back lights on the moon.

The surface of the moon is not matt-black : it reflects light from the sun.
The reflection of sunlight from the surface of the moon is the second source of light illuminating the shadow side of the lunar lander. [ The very reflective white spacesuit of the photographer may contribute to the "fill" on this occasion].

The this and other alleged anomalies on moon photos have been addressed before, in this forum and elsewhere. Maybe if you have spotted some new anomaly , (rather than regurgitating the work of other paranoid conspiracy theorists), it may be worth posting here , but other than that please don't bother wasting any more of your or our time posting about moon-hoax-conspiracy here.

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #102 on: 15/11/2013 13:21:26 »
The surface of the moon is not matt-black : it reflects light from the sun.
The reflection of sunlight from the surface of the moon is the second source of light illuminating the shadow side of the lunar lander. [ The very reflective white spacesuit of the photographer may contribute to the "fill" on this occasion].
You only have to look at the lower surfaces of the suit and backpack to see this backscatter illumination. As you say, this stuff has been dealt with elsewhere; I suspect trolling.

or another psychiatric case   [:(]

KubricksOdyssey got his pseudonym from a film by Jay Weidner.

I've had a butchers at Mr Weidner's eponymous web-page apparently he (Mr Weidner) is a full-blown nut-case ...

Quote from: jayweidner.com
"The only people who call conspiracies ' theories' are the conspirators."
- Weidner's Third Law of the Universe
jayweidner.com

"Law of the Universe "  [;D]

Quote from: mywot.com
jayweidner.com
Description:
DVDs, videos, books and articles concerned with alchemy, shamanism, the apocalypse, the transformation and transmutation of the human race and our true potential as human beings. Among the subjects discussed are Stanley Kubrick and his film 2001: A Space Oddyssey, J R R Tolkien, Peter Jackson and The Lord of the Rings, The Alchemy of Time, The Ka, the Ba and the Kabbalah, The God Star and much more. The books that Weidner has written include Mysteries of the Great Cross at Hendaye, A Monument to the End of Time and his DVD Secrets of Alchemy.
http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/jayweidner.com

So any disciple of Mr Weidner is seriously lacking in critical faculties : if Mr Weener Weidner is a successful alchemist why does he have to sell DVDs / books when he can turn base-metal into gold ?.
« Last Edit: 15/11/2013 14:29:39 by RD »

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #103 on: 15/11/2013 17:50:22 »
The problem for NASA was that although Kubrick was a US citizen, (a) he was a director, not an engineer and (b) his special effects teams were based in Shepperton, Bray, and Elstree studios, in the UK, so he wouldn't have been the first choice to fake anything in secret.

It's an interesting hypothesis, but you need a more plausible culprit.
helping to stem the tide of ignorance

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #104 on: 19/11/2013 16:41:14 »




« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 00:18:23 by KubricksOdyssey »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #105 on: 19/11/2013 16:49:30 »
The problem for NASA was that although Kubrick was a US citizen, (a) he was a director, not an engineer and (b) his special effects teams were based in Shepperton, Bray, and Elstree studios, in the UK, so he wouldn't have been the first choice to fake anything in secret.

It's an interesting hypothesis, but you need a more plausible culprit.

"Senior NASA Apollo administrator George Mueller and astronaut Deke Slayton are said to have dubbed "2001's" Borehamwood, England production facilities "NASA East""

The Special Effects of "2001: A Space Odyssey"
 By George D. DeMet
 Originallly published in DFX, July 1999
http://www.palantir.net/2001/meanings/dfx.html

« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 16:53:40 by KubricksOdyssey »

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #106 on: 19/11/2013 17:02:19 »

Again no original observations : just regurgitating alleged-anomalies which have been dealt with before.

Normal in-camera effects explain flare-spots and fogging, you can see some on the moon-panorama I posted earlier in this thread : [ than lens-camera combo seems prone to flare when pointed 45o  from the sun ]. There is also the possibility of fogging the film when it was outside the camera , via light or radiation.
« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 17:07:59 by RD »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #107 on: 19/11/2013 17:07:23 »
RD,

Here's your challenge:

Show me any video of a Lunar Rover Diver...

1. "moving" their body seated in the rover on the moon.
2. "getting in and out" of a rover while on the moon.

You cannot do either one.

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #108 on: 19/11/2013 17:09:54 »
Rover drivers are always STILL and MOTIONLESS, proving they are fake.

One would think the Apollo 16 driver in the famous "Grand Prix" video would maybe wave or turn his head, but nope, hes MOTIONLESS as a dummy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cKpzp358F4
« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 17:12:00 by KubricksOdyssey »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #109 on: 19/11/2013 17:15:00 »
^ It's truly amazing how people fell for this "dummy driving a rover" crap.


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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #110 on: 19/11/2013 18:53:09 »
One would think the Apollo 16 driver in the famous "Grand Prix" video would maybe wave or turn his head ...

Yes that was careless of him not to look-out for other vehicles.  [:)]

Was it even possible for the wearer to turn the helmet of an Apollo space suit ? ...

Quote from: wikipedia.org/Space_suit
... One inconvenience with some space suits is the head being fixed facing forwards and being unable to turn to look sideways. Astronauts call this effect "alligator head."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_suit#Contributing_technologies


[ BTW you were looking for images of a lunar rover being unloaded , here's a YouTube of that.
... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4t2k0BI72U ]
« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 19:03:51 by RD »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #111 on: 19/11/2013 19:26:27 »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #112 on: 19/11/2013 19:37:02 »
You would think for the billions spent they would have better fake photos.

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #113 on: 19/11/2013 19:52:59 »
RD, do you see the crafty use of miniatures work they did yet?








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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #114 on: 19/11/2013 21:15:47 »
Phil Plait's "Bad Astronomy" is leading people in the wrong direction.


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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #115 on: 19/11/2013 21:42:35 »


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Offline dlorde

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #116 on: 19/11/2013 21:55:45 »
So what do you think was the reason for faking so many landings, when only one or two would seem to be plenty?

And how did the 'Apollo 15' laser ranging reflectors (that are still in use around the world) get there?

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #117 on: 19/11/2013 22:16:26 »
RD, do you see the crafty use of miniatures work they did yet?

Your memory is failing : I told you about the miniature effect that occurs with stereo-photography if the camera positions are further apart than human eyes


One would think the Apollo 16 driver in the famous "Grand Prix" video would maybe wave or turn his head ...

Did you find out whether it is possible for the wearer of an Apollo space-suit to turn the helmet  ?


Your "dwarf" astronaut is a normal-sized one kneeling ...

[attachment=18201]

You're now scraping the bottom of the conspiracy-theorist-barrel.
« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 22:41:44 by RD »

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #118 on: 19/11/2013 23:12:14 »
You're linking* to images from the aulis website , who apparently rate the opinion of telepathic tat-seller Uri Geller ...

Quote from: aulis.com
One thing is clear – the Moon shots may have been for real, but some of the photographic evidence appears to be crudely faked.

Uri Geller

Quote from: theguardian.com
[Uri Geller] designs a range of jewellery that he sells on QVC, creates pottery, exhibits his artwork around the world and he has written 15 books (and is just finishing his fourth novel).
http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2003/nov/08/features.jobsmoney1


[ * aulis won't be happy you're using their bandwidth without people seeing the adverts for their conspiracy-theory books and DVDs about the moon landings, and how the "face on Mars" was constructed by aliens, which they allege NASA is trying to keep secret ].
« Last Edit: 19/11/2013 23:35:59 by RD »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #119 on: 20/11/2013 00:15:47 »

You're linking* to images from the aulis website

Uri Geller

* aulis won't be happy you're using their bandwidth

constructed by aliens

RD,

Are Logical Fallacies such as Guilt-by-association, Poisoning the Well and Ad-hominem all you have?

Fallacies
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

I link all my images to Imgur or photo hosting servies and rarely ever hotlink.unless I am pressed for time.

You haven't adequately explained any of this stuff.



« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 00:38:14 by KubricksOdyssey »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #120 on: 20/11/2013 00:24:36 »
So what do you think was the reason for faking so many landings, when only one or two would seem to be plenty?

And how did the 'Apollo 15' laser ranging reflectors (that are still in use around the world) get there?

It's all a mystery.

However, we do know the Russians also have moon rocks. So evidently you don't have send men to the moon to get those rocks or deposit reflectors.


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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #121 on: 20/11/2013 00:40:36 »
... Guilt-by-association ...

You are reposting material from the aulis site by Jack D white, "All studies © 2005/7 Jack White".
That's the same Jack D. White, (1927-2012) , who also claimed the Zapruder film was a fake.

So your source of information on anomalous moon images is from a paranoid geriatric, (such conditions are more common amongst the elderly). 

That's not "Guilt-by-association" : it's exposing the flakey source of your material.
BTW you've been reproducing old-Jack's "studies" here without giving him credit, (naughty naughty).
« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 03:16:26 by RD »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #122 on: 20/11/2013 00:54:48 »
Your poisoning-the-well tactics are transparent RD

Photos presented are all from NASA, (not Jack White whoever he is.)

Genuine NASA photos (that anyone can verify) really have you reaching for excuses.




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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #123 on: 20/11/2013 01:27:33 »
... Photos presented are all from NASA, (not Jack White whoever he is.)

[attachment=18203]

Your image http://i.imgur.com/nkv8rHx.jpg  is http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/redreflection.jpg
Your image http://i.imgur.com/hN03O6l.jpg is http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/12dinespotlight.jpg
Your image http://i.imgur.com/ObnlsvM.jpg  is http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/12lensflaresstudy.jpg

The Jack in "jackimages" is Jack D. White ... http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

So like I said you're posting critical "studies" of NASA photos created by Jack D. White without giving him credit, (the text and processed images are his creations).
« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 01:46:04 by RD »

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #124 on: 20/11/2013 04:27:30 »
[attachment=18209]
http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_5.html

Jack and his "Editor" should have done a course in optics , the "anomalous halo" around
the top half of the astronaut's shadow is a normal diffraction effect , see insert derived from ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arago_spot#Calculation_of_diffraction_images
« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 04:43:31 by RD »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #125 on: 21/11/2013 23:27:20 »

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #126 on: 22/11/2013 00:38:29 »
The spacesuits are pressurized, (inflated), which makes them stiff like a dummy / blow-up doll.
The wearers have to fight against the suit to deviate from the neutral position which has the arm out in front as if reaching for a door-handle (not hanging down by their side) and knees bent , (see the unoccupied pressurised suit below right)  ...

[attachment=18231]
http://youtu.be/lY_4vSmPMy0?t=31m47s

The jiggling Hassleblad (which is speeded-up) is not under such pressure to remain in the same position like the arms of the astronauts.
 
Even if  this ancient poorly-rated* Russian geezer has made “200 movies”  it would not necessarily make his (possibly nationalistic) opinion that the American rover footage is faked, true : no actual evidence of fakery offered by the elderly comrade.


[ * "Vsevolod Yakubovich" apparently has a poor-rating ..."1 vote (0%, 4801 Place)" ... http://www.kino-teatr.ru/kino/acter/m/ros/373757/bio/  ]
« Last Edit: 22/11/2013 01:47:52 by RD »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #127 on: 25/11/2013 20:55:57 »
RD, I have a bridge for sale, wanna buy it?

Same mission, different rovers....


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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #128 on: 25/11/2013 21:37:38 »
Assuming the rover images are as described by you, a possible explanation is they are the same rover, not different as you allege, just that part of the rear left fender has been removed, e.g. to take home so the defect that made the right one fall off could be identified.

Even your favourite website "aulis" doesn't claim these are different rovers , just that part of rear fender has been removed for some unfathomable reason ... http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/17roverfinalcomp.jpg

Wasn't the footage of the departure from the moon recorded from a camera mounted on the parked rover ?, If so maybe they would need to add a camera to the rover and associated paraphernalia, causing it to appear different.

Re: "why was [the rover] parked so far from the LEM". They would need to park it some distance from the lander so the equipment broadcasting the departure on the rover (e.g. antennae) wouldn't be hit by debris as the lander blasted off from the moon ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOGT9TBPYRU

[ BTW Including a "selfie" doesn't help make your case ].
« Last Edit: 25/11/2013 22:11:13 by RD »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #129 on: 25/11/2013 22:06:08 »
From Aulis....



Congratulations to R.D...




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Offline CliffordK

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #130 on: 25/11/2013 22:48:36 »
I certainly wouldn't be too concerned with a shovel and rake being in one photo, and absent in the next.  Perhaps someone actually USED THEM.  In fact, it would seem more suspicious if all the tools and containers always remained the same.

The steering in the left photo appears to be in a neutral position.  In the right photo, it is turned to the max.  So, the steering linkages on the left side of the car look very elongated, and short on the right side of the car.  It is a strange looking steering linkage, but nothing looks too miraculous.  Going through a pile of photos from each trip, I would imagine a better history could be built.

When looking at the images, find some higher res images:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-135-20542HR.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Apollo_17_rover_at_final_resting_site.jpg

So, sample bags and containers were mysteriously removed sometime during the mission...  hmmm.

And, shouldn't you find it extraordinary that the astronaut in the left photo wasn't left on the rover when it was left on the moon?

There is nothing in the photos that would indicate to me that the rovers weren't in fact used.  The patched fender likely fell off. 

The mesh tire design may throw regolith somewhat, making the fenders a useful addition (and thus hasty repair).
« Last Edit: 25/11/2013 23:09:01 by CliffordK »

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #131 on: 25/11/2013 22:56:03 »
From Aulis....


You're still not giving old-Jack credit I see [:(], not even by posting a link ... http://www.aulis.com/jackimages/17roverchanges.jpg

As I mentioned in my previous post if the rover was used as a platform to transmit the moon departure footage, equipment would be added to it after it was in its final parking place, making it appear different from when it was tootling about earlier.
( the apparatus between "2" and "7" on the picture on the right could be a camera pointed at the LEM ).
« Last Edit: 25/11/2013 23:26:08 by RD »

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Offline CliffordK

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #132 on: 25/11/2013 23:14:12 »
if the rover was used as a platform to transmit the moon departure footage, equipment would be added to it after it was in its final parking place
Good point.
If one was merely loading and unloading the rover, one would park it within a few feet of the lunar module.  Setting it back a few hundred feet likely was to get better views of the capsule when it took off, as well as protecting cameras and antennas.

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #134 on: 25/11/2013 23:29:45 »
It all started back in '62....

Click to play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knq6zXOqlaY




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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #135 on: 25/11/2013 23:32:51 »
You're still not giving old-Jack credit for finding the cut & paste earth...

[attachment=18235]

That looks like blocky artefacts around the lit side of Earth created by lossy compression (e.g. jpeg format image).

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-134-20471HR.jpg

So we can add digital-artefacts to optics as subjects old-Jack did not comprehend.

There is generation loss when using lossy compression formats ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icruGcSsPp0 , each copy adds more artefacts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knq6zXOqlaY

and if a story can be written in rhyme it must be true , right ? [:)]
That you're attempting to present a song as evidence to support your case shows you've lost your mind, (and your argument).
« Last Edit: 26/11/2013 00:10:39 by RD »

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Offline CliffordK

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #136 on: 26/11/2013 01:14:46 »
Here's a much less grainy image to start with.

http://agaudi.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/as17-134-20471hr.jpg

You have to seriously mess with the brightness/contrast on the photo, but one does find a little halo around the Earth.  Not square, but nicely rounded.

[attachment=18257]

This is seriously pushing the maximum exposure of the film and film/digital conversion.  Presumably if you wished to get a better image, then one should, use a brighter light for the film/digital conversion, as well as a longer exposure period for the original image.

I presume what you're seeing is the thermosphere, which is pretty extraordinary that it is even picked up in the image. 

This would actually be more evidence that the photo is NOT faked.  If it was faked, one would merely cut out the little earth photo and paste it in, and one would miss the thermosphere altogether.

Why is it partly visible in the shaded portion?  That portion would still get sunlight, and would be hot.  However, fully shaded portion would be 200 to 250 degrees cooler, and not as bright, as well as not having any reflected light. 

I agree with RD that the square is probably just a compression artifact.
« Last Edit: 28/11/2013 05:46:43 by CliffordK »

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #137 on: 26/11/2013 01:54:48 »
You have to seriously mess with the brightness/contrast on the photo, but one does find a little halo around the Earth.  Not square, but nicely rounded.

The aura/flare/halo around the Earth is what gives the conspicuous jpeg artifacts if you have a high compression ratio jpeg ...

[attachment=18241]

My money would be on the aura/flare/halo occurring in-camera-lens, rather than an atmospheric effect,
(but I've never been to the moon).

The scanning [digitizing] of the film/print would have also introduced artifacts : the parallel (horizontal) lines.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2013 05:30:25 by RD »

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #138 on: 26/11/2013 09:53:02 »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #139 on: 26/11/2013 16:37:26 »


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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #140 on: 26/11/2013 16:41:31 »
Here's two more Apollo 17 rovers where paint schemes on the trays do not match.

Notice one rover has white paint around the screws while the other does not...


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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re:
« Reply #141 on: 26/11/2013 17:06:28 »
Only really two possible explanations for all the different rover continuity errors in Apollo 17.

Incompetence , or better answer is likely an inside whistleblower hoping someone at a later time would see all this obvious fakery.

The question posed by OP "Were the Lunar Rovers faked?" has been answered....



« Last Edit: 26/11/2013 17:13:39 by KubricksOdyssey »

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #142 on: 26/11/2013 17:36:25 »
The LRV fenders had retractable (and breakable) sections. The different paint schemes belong to separate interchangeable stowage units. For additional info see Boeing's LRV information press release.

If you actually tried verifying some of these fakery claims, you might learn something.

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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #143 on: 26/11/2013 19:08:54 »
Here's two more Apollo 17 rovers where paint schemes on the trays do not match.

Notice one rover has white paint around the screws while the other does not...



Using different types of black&White film , e.g. normal panchromatic Vs infra-red , is a possible explanation.

Is there a record of the film-types used ? 

If the film used was the same in both cases then a colour filter added to the lens can explain different renditions of the same object if it is coloured ...

[attachment=18251]
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/aboutus/page.asp?n=60

Apparently NASA had some camera lens filters ...
Quote from: nasa.gov
In addition to the Hasselblad cameras, Apollo 8 carried a black and white television camera,
a 16mm motion picture camera, exposure meters, several types of filters, and other camera accessories.
http://history.nasa.gov/printFriendly/apollo_photo.html
« Last Edit: 27/11/2013 02:27:27 by RD »

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Offline Aemilius

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #144 on: 27/02/2014 07:33:08 »
This is interesting.... Could you field a question Dr. Calverd?
« Last Edit: 27/02/2014 07:36:50 by Aemilius »

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #145 on: 27/02/2014 08:08:41 »
Yes, if I found the subject matter the least bit interesting.
helping to stem the tide of ignorance

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Offline Aemilius

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #146 on: 27/02/2014 20:08:54 »
Oops, never mind. I found the answer.... thanks though.

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #147 on: 08/06/2014 01:54:24 »

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Offline KubricksOdyssey

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #148 on: 08/06/2014 02:02:29 »
This is interesting...

Its extremely interesting.

Watching 97-99% of the worlds top name scientists succumb to the greatest hoax in the history of mankind is an incredible sight to witness.

Not to mention the billions of people that were hoaxed...



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Offline RD

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Re: Were the Lunar Rovers faked?
« Reply #149 on: 08/06/2014 02:59:17 »


Have you never heard of Godwin's "law" ? ...
Quote
... whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law