Ufos... How do they work?

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Ufos... How do they work?
« on: 13/07/2013 09:21:42 »
I want to converse theory and speculation of the physics of a UFO. or hypothetical space craft of the future.  I want to group with a few physics minds over this website to do an actual serious internet investigation into the scientific taboo of Ufology.

this investigation is NOT to prove the existence of "aliens" but to attempt to understand those flying soccer's propulsion systems, based on UFO stories and internet UFO videos.

I personally have a UFO propulsion theory which I will get to in a moment. but first I'm going to list some of the classic "characteristics" of a UFO which I found on the internet.
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-Most UFOs are disk or soccer shaped, they are metallic and appear to have a polished mirror like luster.

-Most UFOs appear to glow, some say that plasma surrounds the entire ship.

-Most UFOs don't fly like conventional aircraft, they seem to fly much like a "dragonfly" they usually fly in an "Unusual" way.

-It is rumored that when a UFO comes close. Electric equipment is disrupted. The lights flicker and radios turn to static along with other "electrical disruption"

-It is rumored that if a UFO lands that it will leave a sort of circle of burned grass.

-UFOs don't make much sound, if it dose it sounds very low pitched. like a wow wow wow wow wow sort of sound.

-UFOs seem to have a "spot light" that has unusual properties. like a tractor beam.
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I bet there are more examples that I have not listed, these are clues and darn good ones too, we need as much clues as we can get so if you have an example of UFO characteristics tell me in the reply section and I will ad them to the list.

My theory on how these UFOs work is based on one of the clues that I listed, electro-magnetic interference. If you get a strong magnet and put it close to an electric device such as a radio or light-bulb the magnetic field interrupts the flow of electricity in that device and causes them not to work.

sense UFOs appear to have this characteristic I assume that magnetism may play an important role in the UFO's construction.  I did a little calculations concerning the power of this magnetic field, if a UFO is say 50 feet above your house and it has the power to interfere with lights in the house at that distance then the field must Be very strong around 50 Tesla which is ultra strong. I looked up the strongest magnet in the world and found this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGytW_C6hR8

notice how the biggest magnet interfered with the cameras in the room, They could even levitate anything with it, which makes me think I'm on the right track. but what would a UFO need with such a strong magnetic field other then propulsion. I believe that it would be useful for making a "magnetic force field" around the ship to protect it from space. this other video describes how that could work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXEC-v5lQ64

according to the video all you need to make a space worthy force field is a strong magnetic field so the field may not actually be the ship's propulsion, it could just be it's radiation shield.  Even if that were true the power needed to make such a powerful magnetic field would be huge, basically a huge waste of power right? wrong I found out about this stuff called "superconductors" which can make powerful magnetic fields without power consumption! not only can it do that, It can levitate without power consumption too! and act like a super-powerful battery!
look at these videos demonstrating the "Quantum" superconductor and all it's glory.
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The Meissener effect (the levitation aspect)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWTSzBWEsms

Persistent mode  (the ability to make magnets with superconductors)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhfZUAZ_GOY

Magnetic energy storage (the ability to store electricity in superconductors)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU05d43dw6g

All together now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXHczjOg06w
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I'm no expert on superconductors but it seems to me that superconductors would be perfect for propelling, powering and protecting a UFO or any space craft. superconductors are a product of quantum entanglement of electrons, if a UFO was to fly using a superconductor then it would be a "Quantum craft" but the question remains, how would it fly? as far as I know superconductors can levitate over a simple magnet but only a strong one and only about an inch or so above it, so how can we make a magnetic field in the sky for the superconductor? this may correlate to the "glowing plasma" said to be around the ship. I think I know how, It deals with "laser produced plasma"
this video will explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfVS-npfVuY

I know it's flashy but it's a good example of levitating plasma, plasma is like lightning, it has an electric and magnetic field which you can make anywhere you want like in the video, If you had a Plasma ball made by lasers and put a superconductor over the top of it then the superconductor would levitate because of the plasma's magnetic field at-least in theory but I don't know how powerful a plasma ball you would need to fly a ship and even though you might create a simple Quantum craft It's not a UFO, because it would still be bound to the lasers, you don't see lasers too often when you see a UFO so lasers could work but it's not good enough There must be another way to make levitating plasma or a magnetic field which the superconductor can levitate on.

Another levitating force I learned about deals with "Ions" (electrically charged gas, like lightning) ionized air can repel each other (and expand) because like charges repel, giving you what is know as an "electron wind" force, I Imagine that the bottom half of the ship could be highly negatively ionized (charging air up around the bottom of the ship.) then the super strong magnet repels this ionized air at high speed and forcing the air downward giving you lift. this method accurately describes why UFOs are both strongly magnetic and covered in ionized gas.

So on recap I hypothesized

-That a UFO is a "Quantum superconducting ship" which uses superconductors to produce a magnetic field around the ship to protect the ship from space radiation.
which explains the EMF interference that is associated with UFOs

-That UFOs may use superconductors to power the ship

-that superconductors levitate the ship, using a combination of plasma + superconductors which may involve lasers. If lasers are involved then that would explain the Burns left by UFOs during take off.

One last thing I forgot to mention is how the magnetic field produced by the superconductor could be used to make artificial gravity in space, If the power coil was under the floor and you were wearing a steel belt or anything magnetic then you would be bound to the floor, sort of replacing gravity with magnetism.

This is a good start but its not finished, it's still incomplete. that's were the reader comes in. Just reply in any way you wish and I'll get back to you. I do need feed back on the legitimacy of all of this in the form of physics I could be spouting nonsense and not know it, so if I am just tell me.
« Last Edit: 11/10/2013 05:41:25 by ScientificSorcerer »

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Offline RD

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #1 on: 13/07/2013 13:33:28 »
-Most UFOs are disk or soccer shaped ...

Or like lenticular clouds ...


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Offline Expectant_Philosopher

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #2 on: 13/07/2013 15:43:28 »
The Big Bang theory makes you think that bands of matter radiated out from the source in spreading rings.  Earth sits on one of those bands and the band had the right conditions for life to form at the time it did.  In other bands the conditions have not progressed to our level of development.  In still other bands the conditions are advanced and the civilizations which have developed can be billion of years ahead of us.  If you accept the bands have isosynchronous development, then traveling between bands allow you to travel between levels of technological development.  If we expect visitors from different bands we could expect vast variance in demonstrated technologies. 

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #3 on: 14/07/2013 00:07:03 »
I always thought of the sun as a plasma globe because it is but I always wondered why the sun has no plasma vortex tunnels like a plasma globe, you see a plasma globe has a high voltage generated in the mini Tesla coil in the middle of a vacuum tube and it shoots out plasma tunnels in neon gas.

The sun has high voltage do to convection cells and it's in the "vacuum" of space but there is no neon gas to ionize so what happens to all that energy? maybe electron tunnels move through space but are invisible because space offers zero resistance to electrons and the tubes can travel millions of miles through space and connecting to other stars. those tubes may connect to other stars, and you can ride on them like a rail gun on a magnetic ship.

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Offline njskywalker

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #4 on: 26/07/2013 18:12:26 »
The UFO is a manifestation of metaphysical nature. Every few thousand years when a Cultures technology accedes its morality the over mind installs something that in its essence is the very thing that would lead a human mind to counter act its belief systems. The ufo is a mind FIRST matter second situation.

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Offline njskywalker

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #5 on: 26/07/2013 18:13:58 »
I always thought of the sun as a plasma globe because it is but I always wondered why the sun has no plasma vortex tunnels like a plasma globe, you see a plasma globe has a high voltage generated in the mini Tesla coil in the middle of a vacuum tube and it shoots out plasma tunnels in neon gas.



It does have vortex tunnels. These are sunspots. 19.47 Lat. Same on earth same on all bodies in space

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #6 on: 27/07/2013 11:47:56 »
njskywalker so the sun and stars do indeed have these energy tunnels but do you know if they connect to each other? if so would it be possible to ride these tubes on a magnetic ship as if like a "warp drive"?



sort of like a hyper space tunnel that naturally exists? That would be another advantage that superconducting magnetic ship would have.

But I'm still looking for characteristics, clues to help us solve this mystery so if anyone comes up with something just tell me also if you have any personal experiences that would be awesome to hear about.

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Offline greywolfe

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #7 on: 01/08/2013 18:33:42 »
Evidence suggests that there are a number of different alien groups visiting this planet and so there may be different types of propulsion systems. I'm encouraged to see someone trying to discover more about the visitors instead of continually doubting their existance - we can learn bucket loads from their exotic sciences that could transform this planet taking it into the inter-stellar community. My thoughts on propulsion lean towards a drive that collapses the space in from of the craft enabling instantaneous leaps. (A sort of entanglement drive). Any craft using this system might well display the jerky flight characteristics witnessed so often. It's my guess that back engineered stuff from aquired UFO's has lead to some human projects that will (prior to disclosure) remain secret. It certainly is a gripping subject with a breath-taking future to look forward to I hope.

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #8 on: 12/08/2013 17:46:30 »
The comment above states that these "aliens" probably use different propulsion methods and this is probably true, luckily people on the internet have been hard at work categorizing the alien species types and the types of ships seen in the sky.

as far as I know there are 3 "Main" types of aliens and a few others.

                                          Grays
                         

                                          Reptilians
                         

                                         Space Humans


                                         Other


Honestly I am not too interested in the "aliens" I am interested in the ships they drive, there isn't much you can do to "prove" that aliens exist but there may be hope in flying cars and magnetic craft in the future (even if aliens are not involved).
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There are classifications of alien ships and there are a few distinct ship types seen in the sky one of the most common of these are the "red triangles"

                               Red formations


these ships are usually in groups of 3 sometimes 4 and fly in triangular formations.
It is said that the "space humans" pilot these types of ships. they are a very common type of UFO and almost always appear at night.

                                      "metallic disk UFOs"
             

It is said that the "grays" pilot these ships and at least one of these has been captured by the US military. these types of ufo's like to appear ether one at a time or in large "hordes/armies".

                                     "big triangles"
       

these types of ships are similar looking to the red formation ships at first glance but are very different. the red formation types are made up of three red ships that move in a triangular formation.  The big triangles have 4 red lights on them, they are huge in comparison to all other types of UFOs and are said to be piloted by the reptilians.

these are the most common types of ufos but there are a lot of others which are isolated to 1 or 2 incidences. the ones I listed above have been seen in many cases around the world many times (which would make it them the main focus).

If anyone knows of another type of ufo just list them and there characteristics below.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2013 17:52:20 by ScientificSorcerer »

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Offline greywolfe

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #9 on: 12/08/2013 18:01:03 »
There is the cigar shaped UFO sometimes described as a mother ship as smaller disc are seen entering or leaving them. My own sighting was of the red triangle type. The lights however moved independently across the sky in such a way as to maintain a triangle shape. These were independent vessels expertly changing their positions to maintain a traingular formation - they were not lights on the underside of a triangle. The most curious thing about these craft were there appearance. I can only describe these ships as looking like cartoons projected onto the sky. They looked gaseous (not solid). With schoolboy trigonometry (circa 1970) I guestimated (if at cloud base level as they seemed) - that they had a speed of around 3000 mph. They were very fast indeed. This was before the days of laser cloud projections.

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Offline RD

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #10 on: 12/08/2013 19:21:57 »
as far as I know there are 3 "Main" types of aliens and a few others.

                                          Grays
                         

Snap ! ...

[attachment=17883]

« Last Edit: 12/08/2013 19:24:12 by RD »

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #11 on: 14/08/2013 13:28:10 »
I just realized that there are no links to videos of UFOs on this forum so here are some videos of UFOs on YouTube.
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videos of cigar shaped UFOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT2rjd1r9Dk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIY7YpJNzAs
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videos of red formation UFOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjXeyXbiZqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cun6_SWzbDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG7f8YFT_2I
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videos of disc shaped UFOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8BLz4DGyuA
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videos of big triangle UFOs (also called TR 3Bs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb2a2qzcuJE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXsZRc-cdGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gehcrPNlbtM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dry5TqBapLw  (pictures)
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that should be enough |:>)

I also wanted to change something I said earlier, I want change my theory slightly, superconductors are still involved but Instead of using laser produced plasma
I think that a different type of beam can be used.

An "electron gun" also known as a "cathode ray" it is sort of like a laser and it's quite an old technology, it looks like a laser but its very different from a light beam.  It looks like a laser but its not made of photons, it's made of electrons, it is a type of "particle beam" and it has a magnetic field similar to the one found in electrified wire.

basically you get one big powerful cathode ray and blast it. just be shore to put your superconductor ship in the middle and you have levitation because the superconductors will be quantum locked to the magnetic field of the cathode ray, if your ship also makes a magnetic field that repels the beam you can get extremely fast speeds as you travel through the inside of the beam, its sort of like a rail gun but you use superconductors and cathode rays instead of magnets and coils.

I would like to get feed back on this subject so if anyone knows if that would work or not let me know!

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Offline Expectant_Philosopher

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #12 on: 22/08/2013 03:27:37 »
I'm looking at infinity from the point of view of a mortal being.  I stare at the vastness of the universe and I fear the unknown.  I exist now, but everything I've known, all my experiences, all my knowledge point inexorably to an end. I don't want the end, yet contemplating a non-end is frightening as well.  I can envision all the changes that must occur, all the trials and tribulations that must happen.  Our planet will not last the duration of forever, it is merely a vessel carrying us to our next destination.  Living ten billion years a blink of an eye, we witness our birth star go supernova, we gain worlds with fresh suns, and new horizons.  To the primitive rings we are like gods, but those others laugh at our naÔvetť.  Have those other beings contemplated the same idea?  Have they found solutions that have brought them to our shores?

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #13 on: 22/08/2013 19:44:47 »
NASA have been tinkering with warp drive ideas.

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #14 on: 14/09/2013 01:39:21 »
Expectant_Philosopher  Can you tell me if my idea that I present below has any plausibility?

One defining characteristic of a classic UFO is a Blue beam which comes out of the bottom of the craft, this blue beam appears to have unusual anti-gravity effects.
There are many cases of UFO sightings which involve a blue beam characteristic.

I wonder what sort of beam it is? I don't think that it is a beam of light, I believe that it is a cathode ray otherwise known as an electron beam. The device is something similar to a new type of propulsion system used by NASA called an "ion thruster" it looks like the picture below.       Also check out the video link.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIg6pWwezEU

It's less complicated then it looks, it's concept is almost exactly the same as a cathode ray tube in old TVs.  anyway I believe that the beam emitted by the UFOs are electron beams.

If the beam is in fact an electron beam then this would explain how the UFO's beam can interfere with both electronics and radio waves. do to the beam's magnetic and ionic properties.

I wonder if it is possible.  what do you think expectant philosopher?

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Offline Pmb

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #15 on: 14/09/2013 03:57:24 »
This isn't the way physics works. A UFO is defined as an unidentified flying object. Anything other than that is mere imagination. Any claims as to what they are lie outside the domain of science and cannot be addressed within the field of physics.

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #16 on: 14/09/2013 05:06:59 »
Pmb.  Are you saying that the study of aliens and ufo's is illegitimate? I don't know if aliens exist, but very bizarre UFOs with exotic propulsion systems do exist weather they are alien or not. I've seen one with my own eyes.

Ive also seen countless videos of these craft and heard tails of horrific abductions and experimentation done on people inside these craft too, alien implants have also been found and I know people who have seen stuff too.

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Offline RD

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #17 on: 14/09/2013 07:25:56 »
... heard tails of horrific abductions and experimentation done on people inside these craft too ...

Calling Dr ET ... http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=20502.msg238852#msg238852

[attachment=17934]
« Last Edit: 14/09/2013 07:50:30 by RD »

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Offline Pmb

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #18 on: 14/09/2013 09:20:40 »
Quote from: ScientificSorcerer
Pmb.  Are you saying that the study of aliens and ufo's is illegitimate?
Not at all. I myself saw something I couldn't identify in a desert at about 3:00am in New Mexico. It was a strange feeling to see something like that. I've never gotten over it. It's not something you ever really get over. But I mean it when I say that it's not something that can be studied using the methods of physics. Other methods and methodology must be used. And I have no idea what that would be. I've been wondering about it for decades. Science is the study of nature. It's not the study about things that occur only randomly and not in a controlled environment. I can't handle things which can't be studied like that. Physics studies the laws of nature. And studying things that can't be studied in a lab or observed in a controlled way cannot be studied with the methodology of physics.

So let me say this once and for all. I'm on record with my physics friends as having seen something in the New Mexico desert when I was in the Air Force in the winter of 1980 traveling from Denver Co. to Tucson Az. changing bases. In the desert my friends and I saw lights on the highway in front of us that did not behave like headlights and there was nothing else in the desert. We accelerated to well over 100 mph for a long time and never got close to it. That is the very meaning of UFO with the exception that I don't know it was actually flying. It could have been on the ground. But I know of no way to apply what I know of physics to study it.

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #19 on: 14/09/2013 09:51:09 »
Why would a craft point an electron beam at the ground, or even an ion beam?
An electron beam or ion beam would not have any unusual gravitational effects.

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Offline Pmb

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #20 on: 14/09/2013 17:34:19 »
Why would a craft point an electron beam at the ground, or even an ion beam?
An electron beam or ion beam would not have any unusual gravitational effects.
Who says that they do? From all that I know about them nobody has ever been able to conduct experiments on them to measure any phenomena associated with them. That means that anything comming off the UFO could not have been identified.

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #21 on: 14/09/2013 18:26:38 »
Who says that they do?
ScientificSorcerer does:
Quote from:
One defining characteristic of a classic UFO is a Blue beam which comes out of the bottom of the craft, this blue beam appears to have unusual anti-gravity effects.
There are many cases of UFO sightings which involve a blue beam characteristic.

I wonder what sort of beam it is? I don't think that it is a beam of light, I believe that it is a cathode ray otherwise known as an electron beam. The device is something similar to a new type of propulsion system used by NASA called an "ion thruster" it looks like the picture below.


Quote
From all that I know about them nobody has ever been able to conduct experiments on them to measure any phenomena associated with them. That means that anything comming off the UFO could not have been identified.
Oh sure; I'm assuming this is purely speculative (although the OP may not think so). If an hypothetical aerial craft were to shine an hypothetical 'blue beam' at the ground, I can't see any good reason why one would think it was an electron or ion beam as suggested by ScientificSorcerer - and especially not if it's supposed to have antigravity effects.
« Last Edit: 14/09/2013 18:30:31 by dlorde »

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #22 on: 14/09/2013 18:51:01 »
I don't know if it's an electron beam at all, all i'm saying is that it looks like the classic UFO beam like the one depicted below.



This is how I've gone about attempting to understand the ufo a little more, by looking at a UFO video or listening to stories of ufo encounters and Identifying some of the ship's characteristics such as a blue beam or the fact that it seems to interfere with radios and electrical equipment. look at these videos of the
"Fire in the sky" story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZczgtOsK7WU   (part 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDbBWcwu1jM   (part 2)

Excellent movie. You guys should get it on torrent and watch the whole movie.
The story presented in the video is one of the most famous ufo encounters in history, It is such a popular story that they  made a movie about it.  From these scenes you can tell that the ufo was doing 2 things, using a "beam" and disrupting radio.

now that we have a description, now you can look into the underlining physics behind it, Based on it's characteristic effects, you can look up and compare the effects similar (known) scientific effects.

for example,



Ions have been known to bounce radio waves and block them too. There for I hypothesize that the ufo might have some electric field around it.
you can then calculate the power of the electric field by looking at the distance away the truck was from the ufo at the time radio was blocked.

The beam might have similar effects, I mentioned above that I think the blue beam is some kind of electron beam or ion beam. maybe the beam interacts with the field around the ship in some way to get propulsion.

say the field is positively ionized and the beam is negatively ionized, or vice versa. wouldn't that make some kind of magnet beam? If you were touched by this beam then you would electrocuted I think like the guy in the video.

you see, science is just a systematic approach to thinking about something in order to understand it better.  No need for a controlled environment to think about something in a scientific way.  I like to think of UFOs scientifically and there aint anything wrong with that.

one other thing is the earth quake type effect, which I can't explain, but I do know that nicola tesla made some sort of earthquake machine that used resonant electrical waves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A54Res2dV7M
« Last Edit: 14/09/2013 19:07:35 by ScientificSorcerer »

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Offline RD

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #23 on: 14/09/2013 20:26:33 »
... one other thing is the earth quake type effect, which I can't explain, but I do know that nicola tesla made some sort of earthquake machine that used resonant electrical waves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A54Res2dV7M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla%27s_oscillator#MythBusters

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #24 on: 15/09/2013 04:42:59 »
I want to look into another defining characteristic of Ufos, which is about it's alleged "markings/burns/chemicals" which appear in the grass and dirt when a UFO takes off.

Also SOME cases of ufo's involve some sort of metal slag which is discharged wile the UFO is in mid flight.  To me this sort of thing is hard solid evidence which can be chemically and structurally analyzed, peaces of this slag has been recovered and all kinds of tests have been done on the soil of landing sights, which are quite baffling to scientists.

One such case is the bob white UFO encounter, he saw this thing come off of a UFO when it was going to warp speed.



this video link explains further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZF3BfDNAvs

We know what the metal slag is made of but so far we don't know how it relates to the propulsion of the craft.  But I see that it relates to my original theory, that thing is some kind of super conductor, which is involved in UFO propulsion.

there was one other story that I remember which had similar slag raining down from
from a ufo on to a boat, but I cant seem to find that story on the internet.

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Offline Pmb

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #25 on: 15/09/2013 08:49:08 »
Quote from: ScientificSorcerer
I don't know if it's an electron beam at all, all i'm saying is that it looks like the classic UFO beam like the one depicted below.
A classic UFO beam does in no way imply that itís a particle beam. And electrons have nothing to do with such a process so there's no reason to speculate that there is a relationship between what you see and an electron beam.

A current of charged particles through a low-pressure gas normally causes a glow like that. However there is a large resistance to such a current and that causes the beam to travel only a very short distance.

And it's for reasons exactly like this that UFO stories are assumed to be either false or a result of exaggeration. The assumptions are very poor.

Quite often, if not almost always, people will either intentionally or unintentionally, describe what they observer incorrectly. And when someone hears that they will do the same thing. After several generations of slight perturbations in the story it becomes an entirely different story. And when you describe something as being an electron beam for no reason at all you've started the process off on a strong footing. That's why I described only and exactly what I saw with no interpretation to it.

Quote from: ScientificSorcerer
This is how I've gone about attempting to understand the ufo a little more, by looking at a UFO video or listening to stories of ufo encounters and Identifying some of the ship's characteristics such as a blue beam or the fact that it seems to interfere with radios and electrical equipment. look at these videos of the
"Fire in the sky" story.
And it's for this exact reason that any assumption about what the beam is will be a bad assumption. There is no known process which will cause that phenomena using charged particles and cause that kind of glow.

Quote from: ScientificSorcerer
now that we have a description, now you can look into the underlining physics behind it, Based on it's characteristic effects, you can look up and compare the effects similar (known) scientific effects.
Any attempt to do so is bad science. There is no phenomena in those stories and what we know from physics that would cause those results. It's for those reasons that any result would be bad science.

(snipped the rest)

I snipped the rest for not being very well thought out. You canít just say that the UFO is charged and thatís why you see it glow. Thereís no reason why that should be true and it if is then you havenít given the complete description of why. You make an hypothesis where something should be able to be calculated and you donít provide the calculations.

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Offline RD

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #26 on: 15/09/2013 09:19:26 »
One such case is the bob white UFO encounter, he saw this thing come off of a UFO when it was going to warp speed.


Industrial waste-product ...


 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-10-12/
« Last Edit: 15/09/2013 09:23:28 by RD »

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #27 on: 15/09/2013 11:07:58 »
I don't know if it's an electron beam at all, all i'm saying is that it looks like the classic UFO beam like the one depicted below.
Ah, OK. It's just that you said:
... I believe that it is a cathode ray otherwise known as an electron beam. The device is something similar to a new type of propulsion system used by NASA called an "ion thruster"...
I guess that sounded more definite than you meant it.

Quote
... say the field is positively ionized and the beam is negatively ionized, or vice versa. wouldn't that make some kind of magnet beam? If you were touched by this beam then you would electrocuted I think like the guy in the video.
No, not magnetic, and no, not electrocuted. Electron or ion beam particles are accelerated by a high voltage in the beam gun, but it doesn't extend beyond the gun. You might get heat or radiation burns from an intense beam.

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #28 on: 15/09/2013 11:21:49 »
One such case is the bob white UFO encounter, he saw this thing come off of a UFO when it was going to warp speed.


Industrial waste-product ...
Yup; in fact, it is described and explained as such in the comments to the YouTube video that ScientificSorcerer linked to!

The most plausible explanation for Bob White's story is that he made it all up after finding the grinder stalagmite.

It's also worth noting that the History Channel is in the entertainment business, and in recent years, they definitely don't let facts get in the way. A documentary about a mysterious lump of metal is no fun if it turns out to be industrial waste, so when official, accredited, labs test it and find it's junk, they must be lying, and it's time to get a couple of pocket 'scientists' to come on and say it's really weird stuff.

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Offline Expectant_Philosopher

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #29 on: 17/09/2013 20:22:09 »
Expectant_Philosopher  Can you tell me if my idea that I present below has any plausibility?

One defining characteristic of a classic UFO is a Blue beam which comes out of the bottom of the craft, this blue beam appears to have unusual anti-gravity effects.
There are many cases of UFO sightings which involve a blue beam characteristic.

I wonder what sort of beam it is? I don't think that it is a beam of light, I believe that it is a cathode ray otherwise known as an electron beam. The device is something similar to a new type of propulsion system used by NASA called an "ion thruster" it looks like the ...

If a gravity effect, the blue beam could be an artifact of the gravitational alteration of the environment.  A blue shift indicates an increasing frequency.  If a gravity well were created under the ship the blue color effect would not be uniform, it would be strongest where the outgoing gravitational waves intersected with the reflected gravitational waves at the focal point necessary to lift the object.

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #30 on: 17/09/2013 22:16:06 »
Or kids with a blue LED torch ;)

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Offline Expectant_Philosopher

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #31 on: 30/09/2013 05:44:04 »
Or kids with a blue LED torch ;)

:) !

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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #32 on: 03/10/2013 03:16:53 »
When I was 19 (I'm 53 now) a friend and i were walking home one night and saw a bright light in the sky moving from right to left across the sky. Neither of us realized that the other had seen it as we were chatting. It suddenly went straight up vertically. We both turned to each other at the same time and asked "Did you see that?" Now this could easily have been an atmospheric disturbance or a light shining into the sky. I don't know to this day. That is the problem. Unless a 7 foot big green alien lands in front of me, gets out of his ship and say "Hi" I will reserve judgement.
Fixation on the Einstein papers is a good definition of OCD.

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #33 on: 09/10/2013 05:13:06 »
Ok I should have realized that you have to take stuff relating to UFO's with a grain of salt.  People could easily be making this stuff up or exaggerating the truth.  That simply means that you gotta get more creative, I have recently came to understand a force called the "electron wind" and realized how it could be used for propulsion.
It's my understanding that you can negatively or positively charge particles of air and the "wind" effect comes from the charged air particles repelling each other, because like charges repel, in much the same way like poled magnets repel.

                                                       

Now magnets can repel or attract ionized air as well, I believe that UFOs are both magnetic and surrounded by ionized gas which is why they glow, Is it possible that the bottom of the ship could be positively charged and positively charges the air around it then a ultra strong superconducting magnet attracts the air upward as to get lift, and or the top half of the ship be negatively charged so that the super magnet strongly repels the air as to get an updraft lift and at the same time cutting down air resistance?

there was an effect I heard about {the name I can't remember} which involves a vortex of wind to lift a disk shaped craft, Because of a magnetic force called "spin" the craft would cause the air to make a vortex of ionized air around the north and south poles of the superconductor magnet.  An added bonus to the lift of a craft like this.

What is the scientific plausibility of this idea? any takers?

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #34 on: 09/10/2013 10:29:45 »
What is the scientific plausibility of this idea? any takers?
The only ionised gas propulsion systems I know are ion engines for spacecraft. These can provide a steady continuous acceleration, but it's very low powered. Very high speeds can eventually be achieved, but it takes a long time at such low acceleration. They wouldn't be suitable for maneuvering, either in the atmosphere or in space.

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #35 on: 10/10/2013 03:48:20 »
dlorde, the ion thrust idea for a space craft engine is a similar concept but what i'm talking about is slightly different.
In-order to explain my self a little better, Just imagine a helicopter.  A helicopter basically uses a big fan to push air down to get lifted up



My Idea Uses a big powerful "superconducting" magnet to push air down. Normally air is unaffected by magnets BUT negatively ionized air is repelled by magnets.  If you used an ionizer coil like this one then you can push the air down with a magnet.

http://www.amazing1.com/products/negative-ion-generator-12vdc-input-20kv-output.html

It would be on a larger scale and connected it to the bottom of the ship which would be coated in a thin layer of conductive metal such as aluminum, then it would begin to ionize the air around the bottom of the ship, then the big super magnet would repel the - air downward.

positively charged Ions would be attracted to the magnet, so you could Ionize the top of the air ship positively, and get lift in much the same way, both of these used at the same time would give you a lot of lift (I think).

take a look at this video of a UFO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feya1XjIVoE

notice how the entire thing glows, the thing could be covered in Plasma(highly ionized gas/air), it could be high voltage and it uses a big magnet to push this high voltage air upward or downward depending on the ionization type + or - you see what I mean? I don't know if this concept makes sense "Physically" I need feed back from other physics minds to verify the plausibility.

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Offline RD

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #36 on: 10/10/2013 08:11:21 »
My Idea Uses a big powerful "superconducting" magnet to push air down. Normally air is unaffected by magnets BUT negatively ionized air is repelled by magnets.  If you used an ionizer coil like this one then you can push the air down with a magnet ...

No magnets required for thrust via ionized air, just lots of volts  ...
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib1BA2WuP30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0FusVb4Gp4#t=3m13s

take a look at this video of a UFO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feya1XjIVoE

notice how the entire thing glows, the thing could be covered in Plasma(highly ionized gas/air) ...

Alternatively it's a highly-reflective  aluminized-mylar party-balloon filled with helium ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5aVIl9aAP0

[ the diamond shape which occasionally appears in the video is due to the shape of the camera lens aperture]
« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 08:49:17 by RD »

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Offline dlorde

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #37 on: 10/10/2013 09:38:10 »
... I don't know if this concept makes sense "Physically" I need feed back from other physics minds to verify the plausibility.
I'm afraid I can't calculate the potential repulsion or lift, but I seriously doubt it could practically support a significant mass.

I don't think videos of balloons will provide any useful information (except to meteorologists!).
« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 09:39:43 by dlorde »

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #38 on: 11/10/2013 05:16:54 »
Quote
I seriously doubt it could practically support a significant mass

The Electron wind force by it self won't generate more then a few grams of force Because it's force merely comes from the like charged air particles repelling each other. But I think your underestimating the power of a 10 Tesla super-magnet.



this Junk yard magnet can lift cars, and it's just 1 Tesla strong, a Fully charged superconductor magnet coil can be over 10 times the power of that Junk yard magnet and about 1/3 it's size and weight and on top of that, this magnet requires no power to stay at that level of magnetism ones it's charged. Imagine the boot of repulsion power which that Quantum entangling super-magnet can provide, it's freaking ridiculous mang!

Imagine an air molecule, just floating around minding it's own business then it enters the strong magnetic field of the ship, the little guy is unaffected so it continues on deeper into the magnetic field, then when it gets really close to the ship it gets ionized, at that moment the air molecule gets rail-gunned out of the intense magnetic field at high speed giving you lift.

now lets look at a lifter's propulsion system.  the air molecules get close to the ship and get ionized BUT the only repulsion force felt by the air molecules is from each other, because like charges repel and only very weakly. By adding the super magnet into the equation you get an incredible lifting force.

that is the difference between my idea and a lifter.

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Offline RD

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #39 on: 11/10/2013 09:33:14 »
... I think your underestimating the power of a 10 Tesla super-magnet.

I've been inside a 3 Tesla field ...


not even a breeze (and helluva noisy).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_resonance_imaging#Magnetic_field


...  the air molecules get close to the ship and get ionized BUT the only repulsion force felt by the air molecules is from each other, because like charges repel and only very weakly. By adding the super magnet into the equation you get an incredible lifting force.

When charged particles enter a strong magnetic field they go nowhere fast : in ever decreasing circles ... http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/81870/enlarge

Quote from: .wikipedia.org/Lorentz_force


Beam of electrons moving in a circle, due to the presence of a magnetic field.
 Purple light is emitted along the electron path, due to the electrons colliding with gas molecules in the bulb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force#History
« Last Edit: 11/10/2013 10:26:01 by RD »

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #40 on: 12/10/2013 03:53:54 »
RD you must be familiar to the cathode ray tube and how that electron beam was made in the first place, as I recall electrons are generated by a tuncstin filliment then an electro magnet ring coil exelerates those electrons into a beam, a line.

 My super magnet ion propultion system would exelerate ionized air or gas in much the same way. My idea would be very similar to if not exactly the same as the "ion thruster" the only difference is that instead of powering a weak electromagnet to exelerate the charged particles, you would use a super magnet and instead of useing lithium or neon for propellent you use the air around you.

This thing wouldn't be a "space craft" it would be a "air craft" but it could easily be a space craft by uesing charged lithium gas from tanks onboard the ship ones you get up to the edge of the atmosphere. Also the ion thruster is designed to use low power propulsion, my ship would use tesla coil strength to ionize the bottom of the ship while a 10 tesla magnet repels the charged plasma gas at high speed.

The spin of the electrons will probably just focus the air into some kind of wind vortex centered around the bottom pole, when the air molecule gets repelled by the magnet it moves away from the electric field and looses it's ionization do to air resistance, then the magnet wouldn't effect the air.

The air wouldn't be ionized long enough to go in a ring, just long enough to get pushed away.

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Offline Expectant_Philosopher

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #41 on: 20/10/2013 08:06:32 »
If a gravity effect, the blue beam could be an artifact of the gravitational alteration of the environment.  A blue shift indicates an increasing frequency.  If a gravity well were created under the ship the blue color effect would not be uniform, it would be strongest where the outgoing gravitational waves intersected with the reflected gravitational waves at the focal point necessary to lift the object.

Did you see the research from Raymond Chiao from University of California.  He has defined a direct relationship between Electromagnetic Waves and Gravitational Waves and has postulated that one can generate the other.  His theory is that using Superconductors he can create a gravitational wave reflector that will generate electromagnetic waves, and that the reverse is also true, electromagnetic waves can generate gravitational waves with Superconducters.  This merges Maxwell's electromagnetic wave equations with those gravitational wave equations of Einstein. 

It seems to me that for an anti-gravity field to be useful from a ship it must have something of which to bounce off.  This could imply a principal, if anti-gravity fields are being used by UFO's, that a gravitational wave generator also acts as a reflector. That the earth as a gravitational wave generator can reflect the gravitational waves produced by such a device aboard a ship. It also implies another principle, there must be an ideal wave frequency (generated by the ship) that interacts with a base frequency (generated by the Earth) to enable reflection and thus lift for the ship. The ship's generator needs to increase the frequency of the generated waves, until lift occurs. This increasing frequency of gravitational waves, produces electromagnetic waves of increasing frequency and you obtain "blue shift". 

This leaves open a question, if the blue field is noticed only when something is lifted to the ship, some other means of ship's drive must be in operation, otherwise we would see the "blue shift" whenever someone saw UFO's.
« Last Edit: 20/10/2013 08:17:42 by Expectant_Philosopher »

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Offline Expectant_Philosopher

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #42 on: 23/10/2013 22:32:41 »
Think of the technologic and medical breakthroughs we might enrich ourselves with from alien visitors.  Though these advancements might be a two-edged sword.  We believe these visitors to be explorers, but what if they were forced by population growth or loss of habitat to seek out other worlds.  These aliens' successes in medicine and technology, provided both impetus and means to search for other worlds to colonize. Finding a gem like our own world would be like finding a cup of water in a desert, precious but limited.  I'm puzzled though, from all the visitations I've read about I really don't see any industriousness or creativity, no lasting impact.  To what end their visits? They've been recorded as far back as ancient times, (read Plutarch's Lives, Julius Ceasar's visitation), and yet no ultimatums to the populace, no hidden alien populations, no conflicts between rival claimants to the planet, no technology transfers. Our world seems to lead a charmed existence, protected from our worst fears concerning alien visitation.   

If these aliens really wanted a new world to call their own why haven't they terraformed Mars long ago? We could've been trading partners with the new Martians.  With our limited technology we believe we could actually terraform Mars, but either the aliens are very lazy and just want to drink from our cup of water, or they have oceans enough and don't really need the Earth.
« Last Edit: 23/10/2013 22:42:18 by Expectant_Philosopher »

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Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #43 on: 28/10/2013 18:55:21 »
We are making assumptions, we need to back up for a moment and see the UFO for what it is, a metal disk in the sky.
we don't know if "aliens" pilot these things, heck we don't even know if they are even space craft. When someone sees a UFO it's almost always in the "sky" not in space, unless you take ISS sightings into account. and when you see a UFO you don't normally see actual aliens, unless you are abducted, which is another subject entirely. and we dont even know if the UFO is using anti gravity, it could be a form of magnetic levitation.

To me only "evidence" can be used and only carefully and selectively, because you cant trust many sources in this field of study.

"we can't assume anything without definitive evidence" Quote from Sherlock Holmes

As of right now we can only say that a UFO is a flying metal disk with lights on it from, witnesses accounts.  and we can barely trust the witnesses in this case. Apparently we also have so called "video evidence" of the UFO, but you must careful analyzed to determine if these videos are real or fake, because again, you can't trust many sources in this case.
And last but not least, the most rare evidence and possibly most useful is crop circles and launch burn marks.

But other then the things I mentioned everything else is an assumption.  we need to look into these key areas to see what we can learn from before we assume anything.

in reality only crop circles and launch burns are real "hard" evidence which you can go to and analyze with scientific instruments. from analysis of various crop circles and burn marks scientist have uncovered some unusual readings such as electrostatic charges and magnetized iron partials in the dirt

« Last Edit: 28/10/2013 19:09:48 by ScientificSorcerer »

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Offline sam7

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #44 on: 04/11/2015 11:47:00 »
I have seen 2 UFOs where I live. They were both pulsating diamonds at about cloud level. They made no sound, hovered silently in all directions, then slowly vanished.

Those babies were incredibly bright. I do believe that they were ET in origin.

UFO's have also been spotted traveling underwater, showing their propulsion doesn't care much for whichever medium it is traveling through.

My best guess would be some sort of antigravity field, pushing away the forces present immediately around the craft and generating its own forcefield.

If Bob Lazar is to be believed, the fuel is a stable isotope of element 115 which produces antimatter, generating great amounts of electrical energy with which to create the antigravity field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igUMDICqTpQ [nofollow]

As such, the dynamics of the ship wouldn't really matter. You could made it a dodecahedron and it would still be able to accelerate to 30000mph in a blink of an eye.

« Last Edit: 04/11/2015 11:49:06 by sam7 »

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Offline obieezx11

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #45 on: 23/01/2016 17:51:23 »
The triangle craft are american.
The ships are nuclear and it drives a magnetic force in the bottom of the ship.
The magnetic force reacts against the earths magnetic force.
Giving the ship the ability to fly when they want to take off they turn up the magnetic force in the ship
and its like putting north and south together on a magnet same in space they use the magnetic force to fly straight they tilt the front of the ship down a bit and off it go's.
and if your ever seen a ship hovering over the ground it will move slightly up and down and sideways that because of the different levels of bedrock in the earth between the magnetic force of the earth i've known this since i was 11 i'm 52 now.
sorry about no grimmer i'm right brained and because of the way i see out of my eyes i can't learn it or spell and they only teach left brained ppl in school right brained ppl  need to be tort differently and what hand you use has nothing to do with it hope this helps

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Offline sam7

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #46 on: 23/01/2016 18:29:40 »

If these aliens really wanted a new world to call their own why haven't they terraformed Mars long ago? We could've been trading partners with the new Martians.  With our limited technology we believe we could actually terraform Mars, but either the aliens are very lazy and just want to drink from our cup of water, or they have oceans enough and don't really need the Earth.

because being stationary in space is a precarious affair. Far more survival advantage being able to maneuver at will. Especially with other controlled craft out there that could wipe you out in an instant. Far better for a species to live in motherships. Just need to keep some very trustworthy and competent guys at the helm/engine room...

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Offline alysdexia

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Re: Ufos... How do they work?
« Reply #47 on: 25/01/2016 06:38:22 »
I often read ignorant claims that a glow can't be seen sideways, also that a lightsaber or laser beam can't be seen (if a lightsaber is a laser), but then you couldn't see the sky either.  Rayleigh scattering allows it.

Until witnesses own spectral gear at least like a diffraction grating they can't tell what makes the glows.  I couldn't find any results other than one UFO spectrum like hydrogen.

https://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=UFO+spectrograph%a6spectrometer%a6spectrogram%a6grating%a6%22spectral+lines%22%a6%22emission+lines%22
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/new-ufo-tracking-project-seti
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Studying_Unidentified_Aerial_Phenomena_Scientifically_with_UFODATA_999.html

If the UFOs are magnŤtic, how can they go east and west?  Can they gauss-degauss soil magnetite?

I think the black triangles are laser kites or maser kites: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=laser+propulsion.  The black is needed as a radiator.  The Belgium triangle's lamps are almost certainly sodium; I don't know what they do; maybe they're a guide star for the laser tracker.  Hydrogen should make a good propellant.  A gas gun can shoot unto 35 km/s (Mach 100).

One such case is the bob white UFO encounter, he saw this thing come off of a UFO when it was going to warp speed.


Industrial waste-product ...


 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-10-12/

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-10-12/#comment-6178
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-10-12/#comment-8166
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-10-12/#comment-9030

Sceptics are usually special investigative journalists, not scientists themselves.  Their word isn't better than any other third person's.  Close encounters often report radiation burns.  They never say what kind of radiation but I will gess UV and X.