[Ylide (OP)]

I ran across a few quotes by some famous dead people (and some not-so-famous and not-so-dead ones).  Some of these are quite commonly heard, but several are new to me and possibly to you, too.  

"I do not like it, and I am sorry I ever had anything to do with it."
-Erwin Schrödinger, speaking of quantum mechanics

"Those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum mechanics cannot possibly have understood it."
-Niels Bohr

"God does not play dice with the cosmos."
-Albert Einstein

"Einstein, don't tell God what to do."
-Niels Bohr in response to Einstein

"I think it is safe to say that no one understands quantum mechanics."
-Richard Feynman

"If that turns out to be true, I'll quit physics."
-Max Von Laue, Nobel Laureate 1914, of de Broglie's thesis on electrons having wave properties.



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[CsManiacDan]

Hi everyone!

Seeing the quote by Niels Bohr to Albert Einstein made me think of a quetion i have long pondered over; do famous scientists, or indeed anyone connected with research into science have any religios convictions.

I mean for example does steven Hawking believe in god given his theories about the universe etc.

I would be curious to hear what you guys say[?]

I Love Caesium!!!

[tweener]

I think scientists have a diverse range of beliefs just like any other diverse group of people.  However, if you compare "scientists" to "christians" (or any other religion - I pick on christians) they are, on average, less pious and much more open minded. My opinion.

----
John - The Eternal Pessimist.

[gsmollin]

I remember Abdus Salam of electroweak theory fame talking about Steven Weinberg. Apparently, Mr. Salam considered himself very religious, and did not consider Weinberg very religious at all. Even though they shared the Noble prize for their work in electroweak theory, there was clear tension over this, atleast in Salam's opinion. I suppose that is not at all remarkable, except for the circumstances surrounding thir relationship.

[gsmollin]

I remember reading in one of Hawking's published articles, where he wrote about his audience with the Pope. The Pope had instructed him to not research the instant of the big bang, because that was the "moment of creation when the mind of God was at work". Hawking remarked that he did not mention the subject matter of his latest symposium, which was this subject, exactly.

[MayoFlyFarmer]

I think if you look at any of the threads in this forum that deal with any religious-type issues you will find that scientists have a wide range of religous beliefs. (not much different than the spectrum of beliefs that spans the general public)  there might be a slightly lower ratio of very religious people in science than other fields but I would think this only comes from the sociological stigmatizm that science and religion are mutaual exclusive or opposite in someway.

Personaly, I consider myself to be a very scientific-minded person (one of my three main focuses within my biology major in college was even evolutionary theory) AND consider myself to be a very strong-faithed christian.  I have never in my life found anything in either of these two that contradicts the other.

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[gsmollin]

I remember Abdus Salam of electroweak theory fame talking about Steven Weinberg. Apparently, Mr. Salam considered himself very religious, and did not consider Weinberg very religious at all. Even though they shared the Noble prize for their work in electroweak theory, there was clear tension over this, atleast in Salam's opinion. I suppose that is not at all remarkable, except for the circumstances surrounding thir relationship.

[gsmollin]

I remember reading in one of Hawking's published articles, where he wrote about his audience with the Pope. The Pope had instructed him to not research the instant of the big bang, because that was the "moment of creation when the mind of God was at work". Hawking remarked that he did not mention the subject matter of his latest symposium, which was this subject, exactly.

[MayoFlyFarmer]

I think if you look at any of the threads in this forum that deal with any religious-type issues you will find that scientists have a wide range of religous beliefs. (not much different than the spectrum of beliefs that spans the general public)  there might be a slightly lower ratio of very religious people in science than other fields but I would think this only comes from the sociological stigmatizm that science and religion are mutaual exclusive or opposite in someway.

Personaly, I consider myself to be a very scientific-minded person (one of my three main focuses within my biology major in college was even evolutionary theory) AND consider myself to be a very strong-faithed christian.  I have never in my life found anything in either of these two that contradicts the other.

This is a signature.... AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!!

[qazibasit]

i want to be a scientist.

[OmnipotentOne]

quote:Originally posted by qazibasit

i want to be a scientist.

Here here!

To see a world in a grain of sand.

[danish]

who likes scientists

[bezoar]

But I do find less tolerance of those who have religious beliefs toward those who don't, than vice versa.

[Ylide (OP)]

I think this election will change that attitude.  Bush won mainly because the Bible-thumpers came out in record numbers because they were terrified that "the homos" might be allowed to marry each other.  Reason and logic in the choice of leader went out the door to what was determined to be the most important issue to exit-polled voters: morality.  And of the moral majority that oppose the actions other people who might behave differently from them, most voted for Bush.  I think this is going to drive an anti-religious sentiment among those who choose not to have imaginary friends.  

Morality:  the fear that someone, somewhere, might be having a good time.  



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[bezoar]

You know, I believe in God, or have an imaginary friend, however you want to say it.  But there's room in the world for everybody, and those who don't believe are free not to.  Isn't that what religious freedom is all about?  But my observation is that the believers are less tolerant than the non-believers, and I'm not exactly sure why.

[neilep]

Could it be that believers are less tolerant because, unlike non-believers they do not have the freedom to be as flexible in their attitudes, because believers have a guide/set of rules or a foundation which ,in essence ,is inflexible (ok.. maybe not entirely inflexible as eveything is open to interpretation, but mostly eh ?) and this they use as a basis for their way of life, or as their guide for making decisions in life............ whereas non believers don't.

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[bezoar]

But to my way of thinking, non-belief is also a belief system.  Everyone has a set of beliefs which define for them personally what is right and wrong.  And non-believers can be pretty adamant about their "non-beliefs".  But the believers can get downright violent over it, and that's the part that confuses me.  The believers will kill in the name of God, but the Commandments say not to kill.  They pray before they go into combat -- to kill other people.  I mean, what are they praying for?  If they pray that our boys comes home safely, that means they'll have to kill some people on the other side.  They pray before football games.  Football games!  What's up with that?  I don't know.  The whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Ylide (OP)]

Welcome to the world of religion.  It doesn't have to make sense, it's faith!  

Chris Rock said it best in Kevin Smith's movie Dogma when he said that beliefs are what cause problems with mankind.  You can't change a belief, even in the face of opposing evidence.



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[neilep]

quote:Originally posted by bezoar

But to my way of thinking, non-belief is also a belief system.  Everyone has a set of beliefs which define for them personally what is right and wrong.  And non-believers can be pretty adamant about their "non-beliefs".  But the believers can get downright violent over it, and that's the part that confuses me.  The believers will kill in the name of God, but the Commandments say not to kill.  They pray before they go into combat -- to kill other people.  I mean, what are they praying for?  If they pray that our boys comes home safely, that means they'll have to kill some people on the other side.  They pray before football games.  Football games!  What's up with that?  I don't know.  The whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense.

Of course you're right Nancy.....everybody is right when it comes to their own opinion on such a complicated subject.....for what it's worth I would say believers have a set of rules , a doctrine in addition to their own personal sense of right and wrong......I have also wondered why people pray before a game or take an exam or go to war....especially go to war , before they end someone elses life who probably has also prayed too.

As Jay cites.....if people believe thay are doing something in the name of a greater power then there's no stopping them......without fuelling another major debate...a belief in something that makes a person do a thing that what we would call is above and beyond ' normal ' behaviour might well be akin to a form of brain washing. It's their fundamental acceptance of their dogma that will make a person do an act of atrocity in the name of god.....ie: suicide bombers....9/11 etc..



'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[Ylide (OP)]

I made that same point in another thread somewhere about religious extremism being comparable to mental illness.  Glad to see you've made that connection.  There is much research available about it.  Google "religion +mental +illness" and you'll find a wealth if information.



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