Einstein and the Atom Bomb

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Offline christianchick

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Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« on: 01/12/2003 16:28:25 »
As far as i know the atom bomb was created in part(the formula was)by Albert Einstein,by accident too! When he published his formula E=mc^2 it didn't occur to him that it could be used to create a bomb the bomb[}:)]He said he made a sad mistake and would refuse to build it,BUT thats all i know... do you know who actually tried to build it?do you know anything else about it? Is there any body out there with a stupid comment! Just post here[:D]

The Bomb!

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Offline chris

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #1 on: 01/12/2003 23:13:35 »
I think that it is inevitable that even without Einstein the bomb would still have been built.

Chris

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Offline roberth

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #2 on: 01/12/2003 23:36:02 »
I think Oppenheimer was the first to develop the bomb. He was an American scientist working during the end of WW2.
In fact, today (2nd December) is the anniversary of the world's first nuclear chain reaction. There was a demonstration at Stagg Field, Chicago in 1942.
« Last Edit: 02/12/2003 02:30:51 by roberth »
 

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #3 on: 02/12/2003 03:08:00 »
Didn't Einstein say something to the effect "If I had known what would become of my work, I would have been a carpenter" ??

Einstein's work certainly hurried it along, but there are quite a few brilliant physicists from that era that would have figured it out.  Who knows, if it weren't for Einstein, we might have dropped the first one on Saigon instead.

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Offline tweener

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #4 on: 03/12/2003 04:13:07 »
Germany had a strong program to develop the "A-bomb" during WWII.  The U.S. got there first.  I think that was fortunate.  

Einstein laid the ground work, but there were many others that made strong contributions, and most likely would have made the same discoveries as Einstein.  I believe that they would have arrived at the same point in very close to the same time frame, but I could be wrong.


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Offline Ylide

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #5 on: 03/12/2003 09:23:51 »
And Japan was just getting ready to mass produce a turbine powered aircraft that was twice as good as anything we had in the skies.  I have to say, the cards really fell into place for us during that war.  If we had waited 6 more months to get the war machine rolling, we'd all be speaking German right now.  We cracked Germany's encryption just in time to foil their naval superiority by knowing where their U-boats would be, we made the bomb before Germany, and then dropped it on Japan before they could start creaming us in the Pacific.  All in all, we lucked out.  

As a personal rant, I can sympathize with Einstein...it's a crying shame to know that so many major scientific breakthroughs are either a result of or used in war.

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Offline chris

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #6 on: 03/12/2003 16:51:48 »
Is that they Royal "WE", or have you forgeten who really cracked he enigma code ?

Chris

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #7 on: 03/12/2003 21:02:08 »
By "we" in my above post I of course meant the allied forces.  Bletchley Park is in the UK, but I believe there were Americans there too, at least according to Neal Stephenson.  (And like any good red-blooded American, I get my history from novels and television)

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Offline chris

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #8 on: 03/12/2003 22:45:44 »
Mmm, sorry to disappoint mate, but we cracked the Enigma ! Yes, I grant you there were some yanks there too. Probably cleaners or something [;)]

Chris

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #9 on: 04/12/2003 03:11:20 »
I guess you have me there.  For some reason I was thinking Alan Turing was an American.  We're conditioned from birth to think that we're the forerunners of every cool technology, so you can't possibly blame me.  I blame the Republicans.  





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Offline chris

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #10 on: 04/12/2003 13:59:57 »
Yes, you're right. An American I was chatting with at a conference a few years ago was utterly crestfallen when I corrected him that an American had not, in fact, invented radio or radar, as he had just proudly announced to the admiring bunch of girls swarming around him...funny, Americans never lay claim to inventing crap things do they, just everything else ! Although some would argue that baseball and american football fall into that cateogory. Give me proper football and rugby any day [;)]

Chris

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #11 on: 04/12/2003 19:36:58 »
Plucked a few of that rooster's feathers did you Chris? (laughing hysterically)
"Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms." - Audrey Hepburn

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #12 on: 05/12/2003 18:31:32 »
hey now, rip on baseball all you want, but leave American football out of this.  There are a few things I could say about cricket or rugby, but I respect your weird-ass sporting events enough to hold my tongue.  (A googly?  A scrum?  wtf?)  However, I did know quite a few rugby players when I first went to college in 1993, and I must say they were some of the most foul, disgusting human beings I ever had to displeasure to associate with.  

But anyway, yes, as a society, we have a terrible tendency to think we're center of the world.  I try not to be that way but I often catch myself, as you so kindly pointed out to me.  That's precisely why I want to live in the UK or Canada for a while.

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #13 on: 05/12/2003 22:54:34 »
Well if you move to Canada you'll have to change your name to cannadinoid (not easy if you're dyslexic)[:D].
« Last Edit: 05/12/2003 22:55:38 by Donnah »
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Offline tweener

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #14 on: 06/12/2003 05:48:25 »
I'm lauging hard at this one.

I think most all sporting events are weird, so I'm not biased toward any country.

If I worked hard enough at it, I could probably blame sports and the insane amount of time and money people spend on them, for just about all the ills in the world, including obesity, war, drugs, bad music, SUVs.  LOL

And I'm not sure that moving to Canada would make a big difference.


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Offline Ylide

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #15 on: 06/12/2003 15:36:37 »
heh....cannadinoid.  cute....real cute.  Aren't they decriminalizing my namesake up there in Canada?  Now that's what I call good government.  I'd eat a 40% salary tax to not have to worry about The Man oppressing me when I'm catching a buzz.







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Offline Donnah

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #16 on: 08/12/2003 04:35:44 »
I haven't kept up; I think it's decriminalized but not legal yet.  As long as you have only a small amount for personal use and are not selling it I think you have very little to worry about here.
"Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms." - Audrey Hepburn

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #17 on: 08/12/2003 06:02:56 »
Now all you need is a universal health care plan and it would be perfect...oh wait...

;)

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #18 on: 09/12/2003 00:29:27 »
[8D]
"Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms." - Audrey Hepburn

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Offline coolslaw

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #19 on: 12/12/2003 05:31:49 »
 

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Offline chris

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #20 on: 12/12/2003 17:23:20 »
nice link, and welcome to the forum

Chris

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Offline OmnipotentOne

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #21 on: 14/06/2004 02:51:30 »
Well from memory I heard Einstein only helped in making the bomb only because he was afraid the japanese might perfect any version they had, and use it first.  Edward Teller is also credited with being the father of the atomic bomb.

Ehh I might be wrong, so tell me if I am

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Offline tweener

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #22 on: 15/06/2004 04:29:20 »
Actually, according to the history I've read (which is becoming more extensive lately) Einstein really didn't contribute much to the development of the Atomic Bomb.  The formula E=mc2 is derived from relativity theory, and is NOT the starting point for an atomic bomb.

Edward Teller was definitely involved in developing the Atomic Bomb, but is actually the "father" of the Hydrogen bomb, as he is the one who led it's development from 1945 to 1951, when the first one was detonated.

Germany was working on the development of Atomic weapons, but really did not get very far.  I don't know all the reasons, but the first is that when Hitler banned the Jews from working, he basically gutted the german universities and scientific establishment, along with all the countries he invaded.  Then, it is implied that Werner Heisenberg and the other scientists still in Germany understood the implications of Atomic weapons in the hands of the Nazis and didn't hurry in developing the technology.  Also, they put all their efforts on "heavy water" (deuterium) as a moderator, and didn't have a good source after some British commandos blew up a plant in Norway that produced it.  Another factor is that by 1944, Germany did not have the industrial capacity to spare to produce uranium 235 and/or plutonium.

Japan also had a small program devoted to developing atomic power for submarines, and possibly a bomb.  They did not have the industrial capacity to start enriching uranium or producing plutonium, so they did not get very far.

Germany was defeated by conventional means before the A-bomb was completed.  Japan was essentially defeated by July 1945, but had a repuation for a "fight to the death" attitude.  They were willing to accept surrender, but not unconditional surrender, which Truman and Chruchill demanded.  At this point in the war, conventional (incendiary) bombing was destroying entire cities at will, and there is no conceivable way that Japan could have regained any real military capability.  Hiroshima was actually spared conventional bombing so that the true destructive power of the A-bomb could be assessed.  Nagasaki was a secondary target that had limited military value, and thus had not been heavily bombed.  Tokyo might have been the third victim of the A-bomb, but there was basically nothing left anyway.  The third weapon was never shipped to the Pacific, but it was produced and ready.

An invasion of the Japanese homeland would have cost many many lives because the Japanese would have dug in and died fighting.  Thus the decision was made to drop the A-bomb as a convincing demonstration that "resistance would be futile".  Also, the Russians were preparing to enter the war against Japan by invading Manchuria, and Truman did not want this if it could be avoided.  The A-bomb was thus a way to shorten the war and save American lives as well as keep the Soviets out of the picture.  It was also thought that it would intimidate the Soviets, but I think Stalin was not easily intimidated.

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Offline qazibasit

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #23 on: 26/06/2004 15:44:42 »
Einstein was not the one who made the atom bomb it was two other persons i am not remembering their names but i studied their whole experiment.
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Offline bezoar

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #24 on: 27/06/2004 23:37:28 »
I thought there were only two bombs, and that they dropped them both rather close together, so as to make the enemy think there were plenty more on hand.  
Incidentally, I read the book "Enola Gay" by Paul Tebbits (sp?), the pilot of the Enola Gay who is still alive, and I have an awesome signed copy of the book.  Fascinating how they kept the project so secret.  If they used the same tactics now, people would be screaming about their constitutional rights.  And by the way, he has absolutely no regrets about dropping that bomb.  I'd heard rumors that he went crazy, but not so.  Still sane, and able to write about it.
 

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Offline qazibasit

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #25 on: 01/07/2004 00:04:56 »
ya bezoar i also heard that one of the person went crazy you are right and i think it is not a rumour.
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Offline tweener

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #26 on: 02/07/2004 03:04:24 »
There were more bombs ready to be dropped on Japan.  The third was packed up and ready to be shipped to Tinian, but was never shipped.  If I remember correctly there were a total of seven or nine in the inventory by the end of 1945.

Also, there were many people involved in actually building the A-bomb. It was called the Manhattan project.  The project leader was Robert Oppenheimer and there were several other Nobel laureate physicists working on the project, including Ernest Lawerence and Edward Teller.  Albert Einstein was NOT one of them, and he had almost nothing to do with the theory and application of nuclear fission.

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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #27 on: 22/07/2004 08:57:47 »
Einstein gets credit for writing the famous letter to Roosevelt, where he said an atom bomb could be built, so that the US should do it first. Even here, he was coached by Edward Teller, and one other.

I think Roosevelt should really get the credit for building the bomb. In an interview that Teller gave, he said it was Roosevelt's powerful speech one day to a group of scientists that convinced him to leave basic research for weapon's research. Roosevelt said that the future of the free world depended on them.  After WWI, most of the scientific team Oppenheimer had assembled, dispersed, refusing to do any more weapon's research. Teller believed that with the Stalinistic threat, the hydrogen bomb had to be pursued.
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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #28 on: 22/07/2004 11:43:56 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

Yes, you're right. An American I was chatting with at a conference a few years ago was utterly crestfallen when I corrected him that an American had not, in fact, invented radio or radar, as he had just proudly announced to the admiring bunch of girls swarming around him...funny, Americans never lay claim to inventing crap things do they, just everything else ! Although some would argue that baseball and american football fall into that cateogory. Give me proper football and rugby any day [;)]

Chris

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Americans invented a few "crap things", like the transistor and the microprocessor.
"F = ma, E = mc^2, and you can't push a string."

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Offline Titanscape

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #29 on: 13/08/2004 17:46:50 »
There was a team that developed the bomb, Einstein, Oppenheimer, Szaldi(a Hungarian who became Amwerican) and some others, but I am not sure, others here are read up on this.

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Offline OmnipotentOne

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #30 on: 30/08/2004 04:16:22 »
You guys reccomend any books on this topic.  I'm interested in one called "100 suns" anyone ever read it?  I think it has alott of picutes of the bombs as well.

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Offline tweener

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #31 on: 31/08/2004 02:31:49 »
I would highly recommend "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Richard Rhodes.   It won the Pulitzer.

I've never read "100 suns" so I can't comment.  

Good luck, it's fascinating reading, and you'll be surprised how many "urban legends" are floating around that really aren't true.

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Offline Corbeille

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #32 on: 03/09/2004 18:30:05 »
Quote
Originally posted by OmnipotentOne

You guys reccomend any books on this topic.  I'm interested in one called "100 suns" anyone ever read it?  I think it has alott of picutes of the bombs as well.


I'm a few chapters into a 2004 book called "THE BOMB: A LIFE" by Gerard DeGroot. So far so good. The physics goes over my head a bit but the rest is fascinating. Germany's efforts, the Russians about to fight the Japanese, the scientists' euphoria and regrets..
I can recommend it on the first few chapters alone.
There is a photo on the back cover of American children hiding under their desks during a practice drill. Does anyone on this forum remember doing this or can you ask ma and pa. I'd love to hear if  they thought at the time that this was useless or they felt that there was a chance of survival under a 2ft x 3ft pice of Beech?






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Offline Corbeille

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #33 on: 05/09/2004 00:41:04 »
Wow! I've got three stars now. Either I'm Douglas MacArthur or I work at McDonalds.

My neighbour is in his seventies, is profoundly deaf and is watching a porno. It's emabarrasing listening to the dubbed groans of exctasy (SP?). Or maybe he isn't watching a bluey, he has a young girl round, what's your secret buddy?

2nd gripe of the night, Mrs Corbeille opened my 1999 bottle of Chateau neuf du pape to give to friends while we had other bottles of cheaper vin rouge on the rack.  

At least I got out and did a 53 mile bike ride, half of it into a strong westerley wind (anyone in Florida wanna comment on Frances?)
the most I've ridden this year. Ouch! everything hurts,

 bury my arse and wounded knees.

you can't crack me I'm a rubber duck!
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Offline tweener

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #34 on: 08/09/2004 03:27:25 »
Sounds like you're having quite a day!

Wow, 53 miles is great!  I've been wanting to do that for weeks, but never get enough time before dark catches me.  



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Offline OmnipotentOne

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #35 on: 09/09/2004 23:58:19 »
Im in Virginia.....We got the reamins of Francis hit us a few days ago, for where I am it was pretty bad.

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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #36 on: 04/10/2004 17:11:16 »
quote:
Originally posted by Corbeille

Quote
Originally posted by OmnipotentOne

You guys reccomend any books on this topic.  I'm interested in one called "100 suns" anyone ever read it?  I think it has alott of picutes of the bombs as well.


I'm a few chapters into a 2004 book called "THE BOMB: A LIFE" by Gerard DeGroot. So far so good. The physics goes over my head a bit but the rest is fascinating. Germany's efforts, the Russians about to fight the Japanese, the scientists' euphoria and regrets..
I can recommend it on the first few chapters alone.
There is a photo on the back cover of American children hiding under their desks during a practice drill. Does anyone on this forum remember doing this or can you ask ma and pa. I'd love to hear if  they thought at the time that this was useless or they felt that there was a chance of survival under a 2ft x 3ft pice of Beech?






you can't crack me I'm a rubber duck!



The child was in a fallout shelter. Many schools were used for fallout shelters, so this was likely a school drill. I remember them well. Yes, we expected to survive. We were told we would survive, if we followed the drill. Remember that this mostly happened during the fifties, during the short time between the development of the atomic bomb, and the hydrogen bomb. Atomic bombs were small, and largely survivable beyond a mile from ground zero. As the arsenals grew from 100 20 kiloton bombs to 10,000 1 megaton bombs, the drill became largely irrelevant. We were all gonna die.

However, in the Soviet Union, the will to survive was much stronger, and civil defense is still practiced. I'm sure it came in handy after Chernoble nuked a few hundred square miles of Ukraine.
"F = ma, E = mc^2, and you can't push a string."

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Offline tweener

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #37 on: 12/10/2004 04:07:34 »
I missed out on the nuke drills in school (tornado drills are about the same though) but after some serious study on nuclear effects, I came to the conclusion that the best place to be during a thermonuclear attack would be ground zero. Forget survival, just vaporize me in the first few microseconds and get it overwith.  That way, I literally wouldn't know what happened, because my neurons and synapses would dissipate faster than they could transmit even one impulse.

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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #38 on: 13/10/2004 04:45:30 »
Yes, I knew an English guy who was fatalistic about it. He used to say that he would paint a Minuteman silo on his house to fool an RV into coming for him. I pointed out that where we were working was one of two places in the western world where the constant-speed drives used in aircraft could be repaired, so the plant was on the target list. He should just stay at work all the time, and he would get his wish.
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Offline hellion

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #39 on: 02/08/2005 00:54:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

Yes, you're right. An American I was chatting with at a conference a few years ago was utterly crestfallen when I corrected him that an American had not, in fact, invented radio or radar, as he had just proudly announced to the admiring bunch of girls swarming around him...funny, Americans never lay claim to inventing crap things do they, just everything else ! Although some would argue that baseball and american football fall into that cateogory. Give me proper football and rugby any day [;)]

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

sorry chris but i do beleive a 1947 us supreme court gave that honour to tesla an american, serbian born.....history books are wrong
 

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #40 on: 02/08/2005 02:25:15 »
Hellion
I think you’re wrong

History

Samuel F. Morse's invention of the telegraph in 1837
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In 1867 a Scottish mathematician, James Clerk Maxwell, conceived of the electromagnetic theory of light.  This theory that light, electric waves and magnetic waves, of varying frequencys, are traveling through the atmosphere.
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In 1887, a physicist named Heinrich Hertz began experimenting with radio waves in his laboratory in Germany.
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Sir Robert Alexander Watson-Watt (1892--1973) was the Scottish physicist who developed the radar.    BRITISH
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The US Supreme Court said nikola tesla invented the radio before Marconi
A Supreme Court case in 1943 ruled that Tesla was the father of the Radio.
Marconi's first patent was issued in 1900 and Tesla's in 1898.

Typical of the Americans give them an inch and they’ll take 16,070,400,000 miles  
(All measurements are approximate)
 
Ok so your Canadian  (almost the same thing)

Who knows what the above millage actually represents?
« Last Edit: 02/08/2005 03:05:36 by ukmicky »

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Offline chimera

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #41 on: 02/08/2005 07:28:03 »
The distance light travels in one day.

There are things that survive ground-zero, btw. Freshly sprouted wild bamboo shoots were reported within a week or so after Hiroshima. Gardener's nightmare, that stuff.

Remember a medium warhead will only dent a glacier, for instance (melt a hole less than 100 meters deep, like).

Largest warheads ever made were done by the Russians. They eventually used one to echo the depth of the Urals, which is supposedly the thickest part of the Earths' crust.

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Hector Louis Berlioz
Errare humanum esd.-- Biggus D.

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #42 on: 02/08/2005 10:56:42 »
Anyone spare a thought for all of the innocent people that died when the bombs were dropped? Its a good job the british soldiers were protected by their uniforms when they tested the first bombs. And how did they know the chain reaction was finate when they clicked the switch? Lucky guess?

Having said that, The invention of the atomic bomb has probably prevented several wars since its demonstration in Japan and possibly saved many more lives than it destroyed. So far so good.

Red sky at night shepherds delite. Red sky in the morning Chernobil!

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Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline David Sparkman

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #43 on: 04/08/2005 02:33:02 »
It is not perfect world, but there are several reasons the bomb may have actually saved lives and grief. Asside from the sparing of GI's killed on trying to take Japan mainland there are these thoughts:

1. The backup plan was to starve the Japanese into submission and the Allies were working on destroying crops and transportation between the islands. When the war did end there was some starvation that winter because so much infrastructure had been destoyed, and the allies could not get enough foodstuffs to Japan that winter. Likewise there were food shortages in Germany after the war, not due to a lack of food, but due to the lack of transportation and infrastructure to distribute it.
2. The USSR was gearing up for a Novermber 1945 invasion of Japan. Just think of Japan being a partitioned nation like Germany was. Japan would not have been the nation it is today had the Russins taken half of the country.
3. As far as the innocent victums, I don't know that I accept that. The Japanese were all too happy to enjoy the riches that came from their military conquests and the subjection of China and Korea. They caused a lot of suffering, and I am not aware of any anti-military movements in Japan. The bombs were a necessary wakeup call that changed the course of history for Japan and the world. I respect the Japan of today as a civilized country. I can't say that for the opressive Japan of the 1940's.
I had to do a calculation on the energy of the Hiroshima bomb for science class. It was many years ago, but I believe the answer was 1.2 grams of matter transformed into energy.

David
David

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Offline i_have_no_idea

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #44 on: 12/10/2005 11:15:06 »
yep tweeners right if there is a nuclear attak thats the best place to be.  When i was a boy scout i took a class on this, the teacher said "If a bomb goes off get on your knees and pray":)
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas." -Joseph Stalin

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #45 on: 04/12/2005 16:50:14 »
quote:
Although some would argue that baseball and american football fall into that cateogory


Baseball was, in fact, played by Northumberland miners long before the Americans got their hands on it
Fledgling science site at http://www.sciencefile.org/SF/content/view/54/98/ needs members and original articles. If you can help, please join.

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Offline DocN

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #46 on: 13/01/2006 20:55:34 »
Oh, please.
 

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #47 on: 13/01/2006 22:10:05 »
its true

Michael                 HAPPY NEW YEAR                    

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another_someone

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #48 on: 13/01/2006 23:09:05 »
quote:
Originally posted by gsmollin

However, in the Soviet Union, the will to survive was much stronger, and civil defense is still practiced. I'm sure it came in handy after Chernoble nuked a few hundred square miles of Ukraine.



Civil defence is not any longer practised in the Soviet Union, because there is no SU any longer.

Chernobyl  did not nuke a few hundred square miles.  There was no major explosion in Chernobyl.  There was a major fire that sent huge amounts of radiation into the environment (some of it even reaching Great Britain), but no explosion.  Chernobyl in in the Ukraine (it was then part of the SU, but since the dissolution of the SU, it is an independent country in its own right).

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another_someone

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Re: Einstein and the Atom Bomb
« Reply #49 on: 13/01/2006 23:28:54 »
quote:
Originally posted by David Sparkman

It is not perfect world, but there are several reasons the bomb may have actually saved lives and grief. Asside from the sparing of GI's killed on trying to take Japan mainland there are these thoughts:

1. The backup plan was to starve the Japanese into submission and the Allies were working on destroying crops and transportation between the islands. When the war did end there was some starvation that winter because so much infrastructure had been destoyed, and the allies could not get enough foodstuffs to Japan that winter. Likewise there were food shortages in Germany after the war, not due to a lack of food, but due to the lack of transportation and infrastructure to distribute it.
2. The USSR was gearing up for a Novermber 1945 invasion of Japan. Just think of Japan being a partitioned nation like Germany was. Japan would not have been the nation it is today had the Russins taken half of the country.
3. As far as the innocent victums, I don't know that I accept that. The Japanese were all too happy to enjoy the riches that came from their military conquests and the subjection of China and Korea. They caused a lot of suffering, and I am not aware of any anti-military movements in Japan. The bombs were a necessary wakeup call that changed the course of history for Japan and the world. I respect the Japan of today as a civilized country. I can't say that for the opressive Japan of the 1940's.
I had to do a calculation on the energy of the Hiroshima bomb for science class. It was many years ago, but I believe the answer was 1.2 grams of matter transformed into energy.

David



1. I thought the Allies were actually talking about an invasion, and would not have waited to starve the Japanese out.

Nonetheless, even that would have cost a lot more Japanese lives, let alone Allied lives.

The whole point about the bomb (apart from the fact that it was substantially bluff – what the Japanese did not know was that the Allies only had built the two bombs they used and did not have a stockpile of bombs) was that the bomb should have a massive shock effect.  The point of the shock was that the psychological effect would be disproportionate to the actual casualties caused.

2. The USSR did invade a few Islands that belonged to Japan, and to this day those Islands are a contentious issue between Japan and Russia.

3. No nation is homogeneous.  It is not human nature that 60 million people would agree about anything.  There were many political views within Japan, just as there were in Germany, and America, and Britain, with regard to the war.  In the build up to war, certain political factions became dominant, it does not mean everyone else agreed with that faction, only that they lost those who disagreed lost the ability to influence events (and in some cases, lost the right even to express their views, but that doesn't mean the views were not held in private).

Japan of the 1930's and 1940's was oppressive, but that does not mean that everyone within Japan would have agreed with that policy, it just means that those who could influence Japanese policy at the time were implementing a policy of oppression and aggression, and were painting those who disagreed with them as unpatriotic, and thus making it difficult for open public opposition to their views.