Theory of light

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Offline jccc

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Theory of light
« on: 17/04/2015 10:16:11 »
thank you Pete! I read those wiki pages.

after i understood light is gravitational wave produced by exited atoms, i am sure there is no photon. how do you think i think about those articles talking about photon? i don't believe them anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzY30Ah8bKY

100 laser balloon popping

if laser beam is particle beam, the energy of the beam should be the same at different distance.

if laser beam is gravitational wave between the source atoms and the target atoms, the energy of the beam should decay by distance.

look how fast the 1st balloon pops and how slow the last 1 is?

Now are you convinced?
« Last Edit: 03/07/2015 21:06:05 by jccc »

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~CB

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #1 on: 17/04/2015 10:31:56 »
after i understood light is gravitational wave produced by exited atoms, i am sure there is no photon.
...Sounds interesting. I want to know more about it, please!

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #2 on: 17/04/2015 10:56:29 »
after i understood light is gravitational wave produced by exited atoms, i am sure there is no photon.
...Sounds interesting. I want to know more about it, please!

click my name and read my posts. correct me....thank you.

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~CB

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #3 on: 17/04/2015 11:05:21 »
Oooooo... Interesting theory! To me it sounds more feasible than photons.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #4 on: 17/04/2015 12:48:47 »
Oooooo... Interesting theory! To me it sounds more feasible than photons.

awesome!!!  thank you very very much. you are the most open mind honest guy i ever met.

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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #5 on: 17/04/2015 17:35:21 »
Quote from: Jasper Hayden
after i understood light is gravitational wave produced by exited atoms, i am sure there is no photon.
...Sounds interesting. I want to know more about it, please!
Please take note of the fact that you're asking a known crackpot to explain his nonsense with you.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #6 on: 17/04/2015 19:03:34 »
Oooooo... Interesting theory! To me it sounds more feasible than photons.

please tell Pete why you think my theory of light sounds more feasible to you, appreciate.

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Offline Thebox

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #7 on: 18/04/2015 00:38:27 »
Quote from: Jasper Hayden
after i understood light is gravitational wave produced by exited atoms, i am sure there is no photon.
...Sounds interesting. I want to know more about it, please!
Please take note of the fact that you're asking a known crackpot to explain his nonsense with you.

Charming, im ok with being called a crackpot, I know you refer to me.   

I know I have been sent to Coventry in a hope I  will leave science alone. 

I get everything, science is well easy to think about.

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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #8 on: 18/04/2015 00:48:17 »
Well turn off all the lights and you will simply float away. What a load of old rubbish. I think you need a fantasy fiction forum. It is so easy to sit in a comfy chair and let your imagination wander. That way you don't need to expend any of that tiresome effort learning anything. You might actually surprise yourself by what you would learn by actually taking criticism as positive. It is a sign of good character.
Fixation on the Einstein papers is a good definition of OCD.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #9 on: 18/04/2015 01:51:01 »
Well turn off all the lights and you will simply float away. What a load of old rubbish. I think you need a fantasy fiction forum. It is so easy to sit in a comfy chair and let your imagination wander. That way you don't need to expend any of that tiresome effort learning anything. You might actually surprise yourself by what you would learn by actually taking criticism as positive. It is a sign of good character.

what are you talking about?

the light in your room is produced by electricity, turn off the light has nothing to do with gravity between you and earth.

if the sun stops to shine, its gravity still holding us. the sunlight is from the hot atoms on suns surface vibrate at high frenquency, each atom produces its own gravitational wave that outward propagate at c speed.

you didn't read my posts or you have bad memory?

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #10 on: 18/04/2015 02:20:48 »
Light and all other forms of electromagnetic radiation from gamma rays to radio waves are definitely *electromagnetic*

We know this because we can generate radio waves and microwaves with devices that drive oscillating electric or magnetic fields and we can generate oscillating electric/magnetic fields by capturing those waves with devices.

We know this because of how microwaves, infrared, visible and ultraviolet radiation interact with atoms and molecules. It is the electronic properties of molecules and atoms that determines which frequencies of light can be absorbed or emitted--mass has nothing to do with it (other than slight perturbations that the mass induces in the electronic structure). Molecules that have electrostatic dipole or quadrupole moments interact much more strongly with electromagnetic radiation that molecules that are completely (electrostatically) non-polar; but water and heavy water behave exactly the same--if light were gravity waves, wouldn't it have different effects on molecules that have different masses?

We know this because of how UV rays, x-rays and gamma rays interact with electrons.

We know this because we can rotate light with magnetic fields.

We know this because Maxwell's equations work.


light is electromagnetic

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #11 on: 18/04/2015 02:31:02 »
how about gravity? does a vibrating mass produce gravitational wave?

isn't gravity electromagnetic?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #12 on: 18/04/2015 09:13:27 »
No
helping to stem the tide of ignorance

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~CB

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #13 on: 18/04/2015 10:22:47 »
Oooooo... Interesting theory! To me it sounds more feasible than photons.

please tell Pete why you think my theory of light sounds more feasible to you, appreciate.

I need to confirm this one thing before I declare who's side I'm on and defend my previous statement.

So basically, to confirm my knowledge on photons I searched around different physics forums and the only answer they had was... That the photon is energy (Source: 'https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/do-atoms-create-photons.283784/'). I just need a confirmation from you guys that, that is the case and yet we do not have a proper explanation. Although if that's not the case, I would appreciate a descriptive 'why and how'.

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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #14 on: 18/04/2015 11:12:32 »
I know I have been sent to Coventry in a hope I  will leave science alone. 
No one is sending you to Coventry, it's just that folks have learnt that answering a question from you results in the following:
- An accusation that we just quote book learning
- A statement that you are fully capable of thinking it out yourself
- A nonsensical statement of misused words and phrases.

Eventually people get tired of trying
and the misguided shall lead the gullible,
the feebleminded have inherited the earth.

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~CB

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #15 on: 18/04/2015 11:41:51 »
Quote from: Jasper Hayden
after i understood light is gravitational wave produced by exited atoms, i am sure there is no photon.
...Sounds interesting. I want to know more about it, please!
Please take note of the fact that you're asking a known crackpot to explain his nonsense with you.

Look... Mr. Peter (I'm younger than you and less knowledgeable. Hence, 'Mr.'. I hope it didn't offend you in any way), he hasn't yet been disrespectful to me in any way and neither has he shown any other signs of being a crackpot... Atleast not to me. I'm the kind of person who likes to learn from my own mistakes. Maybe he is a crackpot in your opinion, but in my world he is still a polite person who just wants to discuss his theories with us. I might change this opinion later if he evolves to be the kind of person who just claims 'He knows it all' and 'You are all wrong'. But, right now, to me, he is just like any of you. 
By the way, I like to be explicit... So I wanted to tell you this one other thing.
I mean you know it already, but yeah I'm going to restate it for the sake of other members. I'm still learning quantum mechanics and surely am less knowledgeable than any of you as of this moment. So Jccc shouldn't be very happy to have me on his side, believing in his theory since, like I just said 'I'm learning quantum mechanics'. Maybe I might disagree with Jccc later (After being completely aware of every aspect of quantum mechanics) but right now I find his theory more feasible than atoms emitting photons.
 As soon as you confirm my knowledge on photons be answering my previous post... I will declare with full confidence if I still believe in Jccc's theories or Am on the side of the members who disagrees with him.
That's all I had to say and I hope you try to understand my true intention and do not, in any way find this post offensive. I respect all of you on here and am honoured to be a part of this forum, I truly Am!
« Last Edit: 18/04/2015 11:43:47 by Jasper Hayden »

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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #16 on: 18/04/2015 14:10:56 »
I need to confirm this one thing before I declare who's side I'm on and defend my previous statement.

..to confirm my knowledge on photons I searched around different physics forums and the only answer they had was... That the photon is energy .....
Welcome Jasper

My understanding is that the photon is a particle, it carries/transfers energy but it not energy per se. It's energy depends on it's frequency.

You might like to read http://home.comcast.net/~peter.m.brown/mech/what_is_energy.htm as a starter and perhaps the author will give you a detailed response on the photon. He's well into QM and is worth listening to.

Jccc has some creative ideas (and some naughty ones), but I tend to find EM waves and photons useful concepts that offer enough consistency and predictability for my needs.





and the misguided shall lead the gullible,
the feebleminded have inherited the earth.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #17 on: 18/04/2015 21:06:30 »
my ideas are simple.

1. there are 3 building blocks in nature, proton carries 900 + charges, electron carries -1 charge, enertron carries -10^-16 charge.

proton attracts all negative charged stuff, therefore a ball of electron and enertron will form around proton. because enertron is denser than electron ( charge to volume ratio), it condensed around proton by electromagnetic force, density from the proton outward decay at 1/r^3. electron also attracted by proton and stable at atom radius where the proton electron attraction force is equal to the electron enertron repelling force. 

proton is like core of earth, enertron is the land and atmosphere, electron is like giant beach ball. atom's force field is far beyond radius, earth's gravitational field is also far beyond atmosphere.

atom in fact is so dense build, that's why atoms are not compressible, that's why electron cannot discharge into proton.

2. a charge's force field extend to infinite distance, it decays at 1/r^2 but never become 0. an atom, even it is electrically neutral, charges within atom still carry same force fields. therefore matter and chemical bounding able to form.

gravity is nothing but net em forces of all charges within or between matters/stars. gravity is a force, all masses attract each other because charges within have boundless force fields. gravity is not wave or particle. when a mass is vibrating, it produces gravitational wave which is a force pause able to act on other masses.

3. energy is force. forces are within charges. forces can only act on charges.

what's all. correct or not? opinion various. time will tell, i might refine my thoughts later. but so far, seems all sounding enough for myself.

we are seekers, without truth, we won't stop. don't let anything stop us. truth will set us free. soon!

Enjoy life, try to love all things, Dear friends!

 


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Offline Thebox

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #18 on: 18/04/2015 23:24:16 »
I know I have been sent to Coventry in a hope I  will leave science alone. 
No one is sending you to Coventry, it's just that folks have learnt that answering a question from you results in the following:
- An accusation that we just quote book learning
- A statement that you are fully capable of thinking it out yourself
- A nonsensical statement of misused words and phrases.

Eventually people get tired of trying

So because I will not accept all science beliefs, you will not discuss science with me, how strange.

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #19 on: 19/04/2015 03:20:57 »

So because I will not accept all science beliefs, you will not discuss science with me, how strange.

no, we get tired trying to discuss science with you because you think you know many things that you do not. We can't even start talking about anything remotely interesting before you understand elementary mathematics (like units, ratios and arithmetic) and elementary physics (charge, for instance).

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #20 on: 19/04/2015 03:25:54 »
i have to give thebox credit for some stuff he posted. things not from text books. rarely find those stuff in a science forum.

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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #21 on: 19/04/2015 10:23:01 »
So because I will not accept all science beliefs, you will not discuss science with me, how strange.

Another example of how you misquote and misunderstand what is being said.
The conversation becomes irrational and pointless.
Exactly why I gave up
And am giving up
and the misguided shall lead the gullible,
the feebleminded have inherited the earth.

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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #22 on: 19/04/2015 12:39:19 »
i have to give thebox credit for some stuff he posted. things not from text books. rarely find those stuff in a science forum.
I agree, some ideas are original and others have already been explored before by philosophers. The problem comes when trying to discuss them, you quickly run into such a lack of basic understanding (or a deliberate obscuring?) that reasonable and profitable discussion becomes impossible.
People don't join this forum to provide personal amusement for others, there has to be a pay off, a reward. Sometimes that comes from helping others, sometimes from a really interesting problem or idea. We all have day jobs or other interests and time is part of the cost/benefit analysis. There have been some potentially interesting discussions with the box, but I've had to abandon them because wading through the dross has diverted the ideas way off topic.
For example, I'm tempted to start a thread on the differences between sense perception and probable reality, but perhaps not on this forum because I would value some rational discussion.
and the misguided shall lead the gullible,
the feebleminded have inherited the earth.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #23 on: 20/04/2015 02:50:23 »
i think temperature can be defined as average atom vibrating force/momentum in a system.

the hot atoms on sun's surface vibrate to produce gravitational waves outward. that force causes atoms on earth to vibrate to heat up us.

rob your hands, fiction force causes atoms vibrate faster, you feel heat.

energy is force, force is energy. 

thoughts? i am thinking new ways to produce force or store force.



   

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #24 on: 20/04/2015 03:40:27 »
i think temperature can be defined as average atom vibrating force/momentum in a system.

the hot atoms on sun's surface vibrate to produce gravitational waves outward. that force causes atoms on earth to vibrate to heat up us.

rob your hands, fiction force causes atoms vibrate faster, you feel heat.

energy is force, force is energy. 

thoughts? i am thinking new ways to produce force or store force.



 

Why does gravitational vibrations make more sense than electromagnetic vibrations?

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #25 on: 20/04/2015 04:22:04 »
in fact, it is charges produce force. charge vibrates, its force/field vibrates, within the field, force transfer to other charges.

atoms are build by charges, atom produces gravitational force/field. atom vibrates, produces force wave.

gravity is em force. all forces are em force. just my view, can't prove yet.

all this came from the doubt of atomic structure. i started thinking it at 1970

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #26 on: 20/04/2015 07:39:54 »
Force, momentum and energy are all different. Please learn the difference and use the correct word if you want an answer to a scientific question.
helping to stem the tide of ignorance

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #27 on: 20/04/2015 08:21:24 »
force and energy is same thing to me. i don't think force is momentum at all.

did you ever doubt any science theories? did you dig in till find answers? please share your experiences, appreciate. must be very interesting to all of us.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #28 on: 20/04/2015 08:33:22 »
Alan, i think temperature can be defined as average atom vibrating force/momentum in a system.

what i mean is in gas state, atom momentum proportional to temperature. in solid state, atom vibrating force proportional to temperature.

wiki didn't gave a definition to temperature, so i have my own thought. thoughts?

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Offline jamesmaxwell767

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #29 on: 25/04/2015 14:10:07 »
If no one has already, I thought this might be interesting to look up.  It is a physics lecture Richard Feynman did called:  Photons:  Corpuscles of Light.  The Sir Douglas Robb Lectures at University of Auckland 1979.  You can probably find it on youtube.  I don't have the original link, it's an old file I have from when I was in college.  No, I'm not that old. :D .  I attended college starting in 2012.  I love listening to his lectures, also Leonard Susskind.  Just thought it may help in some way.  Sometimes it's best to start over at the beginning and just re-think all of it all over again.  If you come up with nothing new, no harm done but a better understanding of it will come out of it.  enjoy!

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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #30 on: 25/04/2015 14:43:26 »
Quote from: jccc
force and energy is same thing to me.
That's why it's unwise for people to accept anything you say as being correct. It might be that to you but it certainly isn't the way Newton, and thereby the rest of the physics community and the world, defined it. Newton very clearly defined it as follows: if an object has a mass m and is moving with velocity v then the force is defined as

F = dp/dt

where p = mv is the particles momentum.

Quote from: jccc
i don't think force is momentum at all.
So what? Nobody else does either.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #31 on: 25/04/2015 16:06:37 »
If no one has already, I thought this might be interesting to look up.  It is a physics lecture Richard Feynman did called:  Photons:  Corpuscles of Light.  The Sir Douglas Robb Lectures at University of Auckland 1979.  You can probably find it on youtube.  I don't have the original link, it's an old file I have from when I was in college.  No, I'm not that old. :D .  I attended college starting in 2012.  I love listening to his lectures, also Leonard Susskind.  Just thought it may help in some way.  Sometimes it's best to start over at the beginning and just re-think all of it all over again.  If you come up with nothing new, no harm done but a better understanding of it will come out of it.  enjoy!

i like him a lot, more about personality, was a COOL man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLQ2atfqk2c

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Offline jamesmaxwell767

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #32 on: 25/04/2015 22:16:46 »
I also found this while digging around for some other research I was doing.
o   Gravitational waves are weakly interacting, making them extraordinarily difficult to detect; at the same time, they can travel unhindered through intervening matter of any density or composition. Electromagnetic waves (i.e. light or photons) are strongly interacting with normal matter, making them easy to detect; but they are readily absorbed or scattered by intervening matter.
newbielink:http://www.tapir.caltech.edu/~teviet/Waves/differences.html [nonactive]

I highlighted that one part and italicized it as well, because neutrinos do exactly the same thing.  Or, they have the same properties in respect to that aspect between them anyway.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #33 on: 25/04/2015 23:05:17 »
each atom has its own gravitational force/field.

vibrating/exiting atoms produce gravitational waves is logic/fact.

different mass atoms vibrate at same frequency, should produce same color of light, but of different multitude/strength/force/energy.

when current passes carbon wire, resistance makes carbon atoms vibrating, producing a range of light waves.

the stronger bounding force between atoms in a matter, should produce higher frequency gravitational waves.

all speculation, thoughts?

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #34 on: 26/04/2015 03:22:27 »
The spectrum of light produced by hydrogen and deuterium is essentially identical, despite deuterium having twice the mass of hydrogen.


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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #35 on: 26/04/2015 03:23:55 »
The spectrum of light produced by hydrogen and deuterium is essentially identical, despite deuterium having twice the mass of hydrogen.

The spectra of 59Fe and 59Co are totally different, despite having nearly identical mass.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #36 on: 26/04/2015 04:13:30 »
The spectrum of light produced by hydrogen and deuterium is essentially identical, despite deuterium having twice the mass of hydrogen.

The spectra of 59Fe and 59Co are totally different, despite having nearly identical mass.

good point and info!

maybe hydrogen and deuterium vibrate at same band of frequency, mass proportional to wave strength not frequency.

same mass, different bounding force strength between atoms in 59Fe and 59Co, would change the spectra? i said so.

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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #37 on: 26/04/2015 05:26:32 »
The spectrum of light produced by hydrogen and deuterium is essentially identical, despite deuterium having twice the mass of hydrogen.
What do you mean by "essentially"? If you mean "very close" then I agree. One obtains the spectrum for atomic deuterium from the formula for atomic hydrogen by replacing the mass by the reduced mass.

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #38 on: 26/04/2015 13:09:33 »
Yes, I meant "very close." They are not identical, as there is some influence from the mass of the nucleus, but it is insignificant compared to the influence of changing the atomic number (charge of the nucleus). It takes a very good spectrometer using some special techniques to distinguish an H emission spectrum from a D emission spectrum.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #39 on: 26/04/2015 15:15:15 »
I also found this while digging around for some other research I was doing.
o   Gravitational waves are weakly interacting, making them extraordinarily difficult to detect; at the same time, they can travel unhindered through intervening matter of any density or composition. Electromagnetic waves (i.e. light or photons) are strongly interacting with normal matter, making them easy to detect; but they are readily absorbed or scattered by intervening matter.
http://www.tapir.caltech.edu/~teviet/Waves/differences.html

I highlighted that one part and italicized it as well, because neutrinos do exactly the same thing.  Or, they have the same properties in respect to that aspect between them anyway.

i read it, not agree. i think em force and gravitation force are the same force.

if the moon suddenly becomes a proton star, only carries n amount of positive charges, let's see the force between moon and earth. set earth has m protons and m electrons.

the attraction between moon proton and earth electron is n x m, the repulsion between earth proton and moon proton is also n x m. it should be no net force. but in reality, induce made the net em forces an attraction which proportional to the product of charges/masses.

if the moon becomes an electron star, we get the same amount of em attraction force/gravity.

gravity wave is produced by vibrating mess/charge, how could a star or the earth vibrate at high frequency? only atoms able to vibrate at high frequency to produce detectable waves.

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #40 on: 26/04/2015 16:14:57 »

i read it, not agree. i think em force and gravitation force are the same force.

if the moon suddenly becomes a proton star, only carries n amount of positive charges, let's see the force between moon and earth. set earth has m protons and m electrons.

the attraction between moon proton and earth electron is n x m, the repulsion between earth proton and moon proton is also n x m. it should be no net force. but in reality, induce made the net em forces an attraction which proportional to the product of charges/masses.

if the moon becomes an electron star, we get the same amount of em attraction force/gravity.

If the moon became strongly charged (either positive or negative) there would be an added attractive force between the moon and the Earth because of an induced dipole--you are correct that there are an equal number of protons and electrons on the Earth (give or take a few), but incorrect in assuming that there would be no net force: if the moon became very positive, the electrons of the Earth would be attracted, and the protons repelled, ultimately causing the side of the Earth closer to the moon to get more negative, and the far side to get more positive. Now the attraction of the close negative side is greater than the repulsion of the far positive side.

gravity wave is produced by vibrating mess/charge, how could a star or the earth vibrate at high frequency? only atoms able to vibrate at high frequency to produce detectable waves.

who (other than you) said anything about high frequency gravity waves? light is high frequency EM waves. Gravity waves (which to my knowledge have not been detected yet) are more likely to be (relatively) low frequency, because, as you pointed out, stars are massive.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #41 on: 26/04/2015 16:40:41 »
agreed, but this?  if the moon became very positive, the electrons of the Earth would be attracted, and the protons repelled, ultimately causing the side of the Earth closer to the moon to get more negative, and the far side to get more positive. Now the attraction of the close negative side is greater than the repulsion of the far positive side.

even in the case of proton moon, the attraction will be small. isn't the induce effect is only work at atom range not earth size?

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #42 on: 26/04/2015 17:10:15 »
It works on any size that electrostatics works at. This certainly includes the macroscopic scale--for instance if you take an inflated balloon, rub it on your head and use it to pick up small things like feathers or paper slips or stick it on the wall (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYLyi7o8zoQ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3DOmpSRXmU). The balloon gets a charge, and it is attracted to the wall, even though the wall is neutral.

Now, if you put enough charge on the moon that electrostatic force on the Earth was substantial, the moon would probably start "throwing" charged dust off its surface.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #43 on: 26/04/2015 17:58:54 »
It works on any size that electrostatics works at. This certainly includes the macroscopic scale--for instance if you take an inflated balloon, rub it on your head and use it to pick up small things like feathers or paper slips or stick it on the wall (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYLyi7o8zoQ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3DOmpSRXmU). The balloon gets a charge, and it is attracted to the wall, even though the wall is neutral.

Now, if you put enough charge on the moon that electrostatic force on the Earth was substantial, the moon would probably start "throwing" charged dust off its surface.

even the moon is all protons, the atoms on the near side of the earth or far side are induced about same attitude, the electrons in every single atom move toward to moon but still within the atom, it is not like the far side of the earth contain more proton in every atom and the near side atoms contain more electron. electrons moved position a little due to induce but still with the atom.

agree?

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #44 on: 26/04/2015 18:19:32 »
Disagree.

Charge separation can be much more than within an atom. Especially considering Earth's salty oceans (dissolved and mobile positive and negative ions), which would probably accommodate much of the charge polarization. It would be like a tide, but instead of moving mass around, charge would move.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #45 on: 26/04/2015 18:24:11 »
so if the moon is all proton, electrons on earth will discharge into the moon?

or the near side of the earth contains more electron per atom/volume?

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #46 on: 26/04/2015 18:39:09 »
well, if the moon were *all* proton, the moon would explode.

but, if we imagine that it doesn't somehow, Earth's electrons would ultimately find their way to the moon until the moon and Earth had equal pull on the remaining electrons.

If the moon had a major charge imbalance, and were similarly prevented from destroying itself, I would predict the electrons stay on the Earth, but that the Earth would be polarized.

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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #47 on: 26/04/2015 18:55:37 »
well, if the moon were *all* proton, the moon would explode.

but, if we imagine that it doesn't somehow, Earth's electrons would ultimately find their way to the moon until the moon and Earth had equal pull on the remaining electrons.

If the moon had a major charge imbalance, and were similarly prevented from destroying itself, I would predict the electrons stay on the Earth, but that the Earth would be polarized.

Chiral, appreciate your discussing!

prove me wrong will only help me to move onto right. i think the atoms each will be polarized but not the earth.

the attraction force between moon and electron in an atom on earth = n x 1/R^2

the attraction force between electron and nucleus = proton number x 1/r^2

my point is trying to find out/explain the mechanism of gravity, help me on it!




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Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #48 on: 26/04/2015 19:07:02 »
see, it goes around around, comes around. the big question to me is still:

if the electron possible to discharge from earth atom into positive charged far away moon, why can't it discharge into own nucleus?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #49 on: 26/04/2015 19:51:12 »
Read about "field ionisation". In a strong enough electric field, you can indeed strip electrons from atoms. This phenomenon is used in mass spectrometers.

But electrostatics and electron orbitals have absolutely nothing to do with gravitation, so you won't find out anything about gravity by asking questons about electrostatics or atomic structure.
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