[kenwright1977 (OP)]

Although the Strong Nuclear Force is much greater than the measured gravitational force leaving the nucleus and propagating outward from the electron cloud - on the order of 10^35 times stronger, they are actually both the same force. The Strong Nuclear Force just seems to disappear outside the nucleus. It does not actually disappear.

Let's take a look at the properties of the Strong Nuclear Force.  The Strong Nuclear Force must be stronger than the Coulombic Repulsion of the protons.  If two protons come in contact with each other, the Strong Nuclear Force must be stronger in order for the first step of Nuclear Fusion to take place.  All evidence indicates that the two protons only sense the Coulombic repulsion force until they actually come in contact with one another.  That is why the temperature of the center of the Sun is on the order of 10,000,000 F so that the kinetic energy of the protons can be significant enough to overcome that Coulombic repulsion to come in actual contact with one another.  So how does a field that is so intense just disappear?

If one evaluates the magic numbers for protons and neutrons in the nucleus and compares them to the magic numbers for the electrons, the change becomes the same from energy level 5 to energy level 6. The Schrodinger Wave Equation for the Nuclear Electric Field includes a value proportional to 1/r for the Potential Energy portion. That function is always correct because the electrons are always far enough from the nucleus so that the Electric Field propagates outward with spherical symmetry and drops off in intensity proportional to 1/r^2. That is true because the nucleus appears as either a point source or a very small sphere to the electrons in their orbital energy levels around the nucleus depending upon the size of the nucleus. The Force applied to an electron is, therefore, a 1/r^2 function because of the electric field acting upon the electron.  Force x Distance = Work or Energy.  So if we integrate the Force over a Distance, the resultant Potential Energy is a 1/r function.

Let's look at how the protons and neutrons fill the nucleus. Energy Level 1 is the same as for the Electrons because there are only two energy positions to fill - a spin up and a spin down. Magic numbers for protons and neutrons are identical for electrons. Energy Levels 2 through 5 deviate from those for the electrons because the nucleus is not spherical in shape except for a single proton.  Protons and Neutrons are evaluated next to the nucleus, not at the distances the electrons are from the nucleus.  The Strong Nuclear Force field does not propagate outward with spherical symmetry until somewhere between a full 4th energy level fill at a magic number of 28 for protons and 28 for neutrons and a 5th energy level fill at a magic number of 50 for protons and 50 for neutrons.  In my estimation, the nucleus must have around 80 nucleons in the nucleus before it provides a near spherical symmetric shape.  Proton and neutron magic numbers are 2, 8, 20, 28, 50, and 82 for Energy Levels 1 through 6. Electron magic numbers are 2, 10, 18, 36, 54, and 86 for Energy Levels 1 through 6. How the energy levels fill at a given condition are independent upon how previous energy levels filled.  Please note that to go from full Energy Level 5 to full Energy Level 6, it takes 32 protons and 32 neutrons in like manner to the 32 electrons to fill the 6th Energy Level (82 - 50 = 86 - 54 = 32). That means that the Strong Nuclear Force propagates outward with spherical symmetry in the same manner as the Nuclear Electric Field, therefore, it must drop off in intensity by a 1/r^2 function consistent with Newton's Law of Gravity F = (G x M1 x M2)/r^2. The Potential Energy Function is the integral over Force x Distance, so that a Schrodinger Wave Equation for the Nucleus in this case for Potential Energy would be a 1/r function in like manner for the electrons. The Schrodinger Wave Equation with a Potential Energy Function proportional to 1/r, as applied to the nucleus for protons and neutrons, can only be valid when the nucleus has near spherical symmetry.  I say near spherical symmetry because we, obviously cannot produce a perfect smooth spherical surface with 80 or more spheres coming together.  Realize that the equation for Newton's Law of Gravity is only valid if masses M1 and M2 are either point sources or spheres.

The next magic number for full Energy Level 7 for protons is 114 and for electrons is 118. It takes 32 protons and 32 electrons to fill Energy Level 7 indicating the Strong Nuclear Force continues to propagate outward with spherical symmetry.  There is a difference for neutrons for which I will address later. So, if the Strong Nuclear Force just disappears, what happened to it?

If we were to calculate the acceleration field produced by the same positive charge electric field of two protons next to each other, we would find out the acceleration field was 2.395 x 10^28 meters/second^2 or 2.441 x 10^27g.  In order for Fusion to take place, the two protons must come into contact and bind, therefore, the Strong Nuclear Force must have a minimum attractive acceleration field equal to that of the electric charge repulsive field or 2.395 x 10^28 meters/second^2.  If the Strong Nuclear Force were gravity, how would such an acceleration field affect the propagation of light?  Einstein's General Relativity Theory states that no matter what reference frame an observer is in, light in free space will propagate at 2.9975 x 10^8 meters/second.  Based upon the late Tom Van Flandern, PhD, Physics, gravity propagates at least 20 billion times faster than light and may be instantaneous.  Newton's Law of Gravity assumes it propagates instantaneously.  If light is propagating in a gravity field that would change its velocity to nearly 10^20 times faster than light normally propagates, yet continues to propagate at the speed of light I have just mentioned, what just happened?  The General Relativistic Effect of Space-Time Compression has just occurred.  The distance that light has to travel has just been reduced by a factor of nearly 10^20.  If a gravity field was to accelerate light to twice its speed, we would not see light travel twice its speed.  What we would see is the distance that light has to travel gets reduced to 1/2 the original Uncompressed Space-Time distance so that light speed will still be measured as 2.9975 x 10^8 meters/second.  If the Strong Nuclear Force was gravity as Quantum Physics seems to indicate, the Strong Nuclear Force or gravity would compress Space-Time next to the nucleus of the atom so that it would drop at least 19 decades in intensity before even beginning to propagate outward from the nucleus as we observe it. Electric Fields, Magnetic Fields, and Light propagate at the speed of light, 2.9975 x 10^8 meters/second in compressed space-time. We see the nucleus and the atom in compressed space-time. Gravity propagates outward based upon uncompressed space-time because gravity compresses space-time. If the Strong Nuclear Force is gravity, we now know why it just disappears outside the nucleus. It doesn't really disappear, it just hugs the nucleus as we see it in compressed space-time until the field is weak enough for us to see it beginning to propagate outward from the nucleus.

The Strong Nuclear Force is quantized, so that it has discrete spectral lines. Quantized gravity is on the order of 10^15 times greater than average gravity.  The 7th and 8th energy levels for neutrons deviate from the magic numbers for electrons because the Coulombic Repulsion force is becoming huge enough within the nucleus such that it is affecting the potential energy function.  Since the Strong Nuclear Force is gravity, space-time compression occurs within the nucleus as one moves away from the center of the nucleus.  The uncompressed space-time radius gets larger and larger compared to the compressed space-time radius of the nucleus we observe and if one could be a particle of gravity, the nucleons within the nucleus in uncompressed space-time appear to be getting significantly larger and less dense.  The Strong Nuclear Force must be boosted by neutrons that raise the Strong Nuclear Force attractive field without adding more like charge repulsive field force.  This is why neutrons are needed to hold the nucleus together and the Strong Nuclear Force has the appearance of being short ranged and saturating.  If the Strong Nuclear Force was not gravity, then there wouldn't be a need for neutrons in the nucleus.  Based upon Quantum Mechanics, the Strong Nuclear force should drop off 1/r^2 and be observed to do such.  If that were the case, the attractive field outside each atom would be so huge, the whole universe would just suck into a singularity black hole like a vacuum cleaner.

You can look up Ken Wright's Nuclear Gravitation Field Theory (NGFT) by doing a search on the web.  It is located on my website and an Adobe Acrobat pdf file of the NGFT can be downloaded.

Ken Wright

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the statements regarding my Nuclear Gravitation Field Theory is that it is incomplete because it does not identify what the Strong Nuclear Force is.  The following is an answer from another site describing what the Strong Nuclear Force is.  Where I disagree with the statement about the forces between quarks is that the force is short ranged.  It was described as that because that is how it is observed.  It appears to be short ranged because the force accelerates light resulting in space-time compression next to the particles.  Below is the description of the Strong Nuclear Force from another Physics website:

A force which can hold a nucleus together against the enormous forces of repulsion of the protons is strong indeed. However, it is not an inverse square force (I disagree with this statement - this is the observed effect due to space-time compression) like the electromagnetic force and it has a very short range. Yukawa modeled the strong force as an exchange force in which the exchange particles are pions and other heavier particles. The range of a particle exchange force is limited by the uncertainty principle. It is the strongest of the four fundamental forces.

Since the protons and neutrons which make up the nucleus are themselves considered to be made up of quarks, and the quarks are considered to be held together by the color force, the strong force between nucleons may be considered to be a residual color force. In the standard model, therefore, the basic exchange particle is the gluon which mediates the forces between quarks. Since the individual gluons and quarks are contained within the proton or neutron, the masses attributed to them cannot be used in the range relationship to predict the range of the force. When something is viewed as emerging from a proton or neutron, then it must be at least a quark-antiquark pair, so it is then plausible that the pion as the lightest meson should serve as a predictor of the maximum range of the strong force between nucleons.

The purpose of my Nuclear Gravitation Field Theory was not to iterate the information above, but to demonstrate that it was equal to gravity because the acceleration field produced by the force accelerates light, therefore, results in localized space-time compression next to each nucleon.  I hope this is helpful.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't been able to figure out how I can address specific questions provided by readers on this site under their replies.  So as you see, I have been modifying my discussion by adding information on my original post.

To answer the question regarding does my Nuclear Gravitation Field Theory reconcile both Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity?   I believe my theory does.  If a field accelerates light, electric fields, and magnetic fields, whether macroscopically in the universe or microscopically within the particles that make up the atom, the General Relativistic effects still apply.  There may be other issues to potentially be addressed regarding Quantum Mechanics and Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle and General Relativity because my analysis within the nucleus used a Classical Physics approach to the distribution of mass and charge within the nucleus to be able to have simpler mathematics to deal with the attractive and repulsive forces within the nucleus.  However, the Classical Physics mathematical approach seems to closely approximate what is actually observed regarding the properties of the nucleus and provide a viable reason for the Strong Nuclear Force to appear to be short ranged and appear to saturate.

Answer question, "Do I have a brother named Ned?"  No I do not.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Bogie_smiles]

Thank you for the great thread. The explanations are clear, and there is a lot of good logic in what you say. I have no official capacity here, but I want to extend a big Welcome to you. As suggested, I Googled Ken Wright's Nuclear Gravitation Field Theory, and I see that the book is available to read on line. I'll definitely be reading, and hope you won't mind if I ask questions as I work through it.

FYI, Ken's bio: http://www.naturalphilosophy.org/php/index.php?tab0=Scientists&tab1=Scientists&tab2=Display&id=874



Bogie (Ed)

[guest39538]

Although the Strong Nuclear Force is much greater than the measured gravitational force leaving the nucleus and propagating outward from the electron cloud - on the order of 10^35 times stronger, they are actually both the same force. The Strong Nuclear Force just seems to disappear outside the nucleus. It does not actually disappear.

I have the other way around, the gravitational force is the strong Nuclear force, but the gravitational force is charge.   When an atom becomes an ion, the electron proton bond tightens making a strong nuclear force, i.e opposites attract.

  If two protons come in contact with each other,

They can't, they are likewise charge, unless at high velocities.

[Bogie_smiles]

I’m posting the Conclusion from your on-line book, “Nuclear Gravitation Field Theory”:
Conclusion
   Compelling evidence that the Strong Nuclear Force and Gravity are one and the same is provided below:

   1   The methodology for the filling of Proton and Neutron Energy Levels in the Nucleus of the Atom indicates that the Strong Nuclear Force field propagates omnidirectional outward to infinity from the Nucleus.  When the Nucleus has a sufficient number of nucleons present to form a near perfect sphere, the Strong Nuclear Force field propagates outward omnidirectional to infinity with spherical symmetry resulting in the Gravitational Potential Field following a 1/r2 function.  Therefore, the outward propagation of the Strong Nuclear Force field is consistent with Newton’s Law of Gravity.

   2   The observed virtual disappearance of the Strong Nuclear Force at the surface of the Nucleus is a result of extreme Space-Time Compression.  This General Relativistic effect can only occur if the Strong Nuclear Force field is Gravity.  Only Gravity fields can accelerate light, electric fields, or magnetic fields to produce Space-Time Compression.  Gravity propagates based upon Uncompressed Space-Time; Light, Electric Fields, and Magnetic Fields propagate based upon Compressed Space-Time.

   3   Neutrons are required to be added to the Nucleus to raise the strength to the Strong Nuclear Force to overcome the rising Coulombic Repulsion Force of the Protons as Protons are added to the Nucleus.  Space-Time Compression within the Nucleus results in the Nuclear Gravitation Field rising slower than the Nuclear Electric Field as Protons are added to the Nucleus.  The Nuclear Gravitation Field propagates outward within the Nucleus based upon Uncompressed Space-Time so its intensity rises slower / drops faster than the Nuclear Electric Field propagating outward through the Nucleus.

   4   The Strong Nuclear Force appears to saturate as Protons and Neutrons are added to the Nucleus - Element 83, Bismuth-209, is the largest known Nucleus that is stable.  Space-Time Compression within the Nucleus results in the Nuclear Gravitation Field rising slower than the Nuclear Electric Field as Protons are added to the Nucleus.  The Nuclear Gravitation Field propagates outward within the Nucleus based upon Uncompressed Space-Time so its intensity rises slower / drops faster than the Nuclear Electric Field propagating outward through the Nucleus.  The Nuclear Electric Field is approaching the strength of the Nuclear Gravitation Field, therefore, the Elements beyond Bismuth are radioactive.


Strong Nuclear Force  =           Gravity
 
      _______________________________________________________________________________



My first question is, does this book, in your estimation, serve to reconcile General Relativity and QM, to the extent that if the strong nuclear force equals gravity, then the curvature of space in the macro realm, and the strong nuclear force in the quantum realm, combine into one grand unifying theory?

Second question, do you have a brother named Ned?

I note that point #3 addresses the argument posted by Thebox.

[guest39538]

I’m posting the Conclusion from your on-line book, “Nuclear Gravitation Field Theory”:
Conclusion
   Compelling evidence that the Strong Nuclear Force and Gravity are one and the same is provided below:

   1   The methodology for the filling of Proton and Neutron Energy Levels in the Nucleus of the Atom indicates that the Strong Nuclear Force field propagates omnidirectional outward to infinity from the Nucleus.  When the Nucleus has a sufficient number of nucleons present to form a near perfect sphere, the Strong Nuclear Force field propagates outward omnidirectional to infinity with spherical symmetry resulting in the Gravitational Potential Field following a 1/r2 function.  Therefore, the outward propagation of the Strong Nuclear Force field is consistent with Newton’s Law of Gravity.

   2   The observed virtual disappearance of the Strong Nuclear Force at the surface of the Nucleus is a result of extreme Space-Time Compression.  This General Relativistic effect can only occur if the Strong Nuclear Force field is Gravity.  Only Gravity fields can accelerate light, electric fields, or magnetic fields to produce Space-Time Compression.  Gravity propagates based upon Uncompressed Space-Time; Light, Electric Fields, and Magnetic Fields propagate based upon Compressed Space-Time.

   3   Neutrons are required to be added to the Nucleus to raise the strength to the Strong Nuclear Force to overcome the rising Coulombic Repulsion Force of the Protons as Protons are added to the Nucleus.  Space-Time Compression within the Nucleus results in the Nuclear Gravitation Field rising slower than the Nuclear Electric Field as Protons are added to the Nucleus.  The Nuclear Gravitation Field propagates outward within the Nucleus based upon Uncompressed Space-Time so its intensity rises slower / drops faster than the Nuclear Electric Field propagating outward through the Nucleus.

   4   The Strong Nuclear Force appears to saturate as Protons and Neutrons are added to the Nucleus - Element 83, Bismuth-209, is the largest known Nucleus that is stable.  Space-Time Compression within the Nucleus results in the Nuclear Gravitation Field rising slower than the Nuclear Electric Field as Protons are added to the Nucleus.  The Nuclear Gravitation Field propagates outward within the Nucleus based upon Uncompressed Space-Time so its intensity rises slower / drops faster than the Nuclear Electric Field propagating outward through the Nucleus.  The Nuclear Electric Field is approaching the strength of the Nuclear Gravitation Field, therefore, the Elements beyond Bismuth are radioactive.


Strong Nuclear Force  =           Gravity
 
      _______________________________________________________________________________



My first question is, does this book, in your estimation, serve to reconcile General Relativity and QM, to the extent that if the strong nuclear force equals gravity, then the curvature of space in the macro realm, and the strong nuclear force in the quantum realm, combine into one grand unifying theory?

Second question, do you have a brother named Ned?

I note that point #3 addresses the argument posted by Thebox.

3. does not really explain it

I like the idea but....If the opp does not explain exactly what the strong nuclear force is , nothing as  been achieved.

We could say strong nuclear force, we could say gravity, but that is still not answer, charge is an answer although it may be wrong or right, at this time I do not know.   We cant keep using words to explain something that has no real description of the word.

strong nuclear force = gravity = ?

Something = something does not compute .

It is incomplete


Strong nuclear force = gravity = mass= charge


Would be complete but not necessarily correct.

[Bogie_smiles]

3. does not really explain it

I like the idea but....If the opp does not explain exactly what the strong nuclear force is , nothing as  been achieved.

We could say strong nuclear force, we could say gravity, but that is still not answer, charge is an answer although it may be wrong or right, at this time I do not know.   We cant keep using words to explain something that has no real description of the word.

strong nuclear force = gravity = ?

Something = something does not compute .

It is incomplete


Strong nuclear force = gravity = mass= charge


Would be complete but not necessarily correct.

I stand corrected. #3 addressed the issue that protons repel each other, which I thought you were pointing out.

[guest39538]

3. does not really explain it

I like the idea but....If the opp does not explain exactly what the strong nuclear force is , nothing as  been achieved.

We could say strong nuclear force, we could say gravity, but that is still not answer, charge is an answer although it may be wrong or right, at this time I do not know.   We cant keep using words to explain something that has no real description of the word.

strong nuclear force = gravity = ?

Something = something does not compute .

It is incomplete


Strong nuclear force = gravity = mass= charge


Would be complete but not necessarily correct.

I stand corrected. #3 addressed the issue that protons repel each other, which I thought you were pointing out.

I do like the idea of the Neutron being a ''bond'', this could be true if the Neutron had both charge signs and was only neutral in measurement.   I have also considered curie temperatures , I am not sure if charge is affected by temperatures?

I think the opp as a good idea, I think if himself incorporated charge into his notion, he could explain it far better than me. He /she is quite clearly intelligent.

[Bogie_smiles]

I too like the idea that the strong force equals gravity, because it makes the quantum solution to gravity a much simpler matter. One quantum process that works at all levels.

[guest39538]

I too like the idea that the strong force equals gravity, because it makes the quantum solution to gravity a much simpler matter. One quantum process that works at all levels.

Yes it does, but if we do not define what the process is , we are just using words with no real meaning.  I have said before about gravity and the strong nuclear force being the same.  However problems start arise when we consider the Quark being attracted to a quark to make up a Proton.  Looking at charge, Quarks would be assuming a positive in charge?

[Bogie_smiles]

I'm not sure that the quantum solution for gravity will discriminate by charge. Positive, neutral, negative; isn't it all the same, as long as it has mass?

[guest39538]

I'm not sure that the quantum solution for gravity will discriminate by charge. Positive, neutral, negative; isn't it all the same, as long as it has mass?

I am not sure I understood your question, could you please elaborate on it?

[Bogie_smiles]

I am not sure I understood your question, could you please elaborate on it?

Thanks for asking, but I'm going to decline to elaborate on kenwright1977's thread, except to say that all particles with mass are treated the same by gravity, as far as I know.