Science and God - Does it mix ?

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Offline pencilhead

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Science and God - Does it mix ?
« on: 30/01/2004 20:25:07 »
HOW?  I know we've heard this over and over again.  Never a dry subject,unless your dry and never change your beliefs.  You change a person daily learn new things hopefully they change and effect you someway or another.  What are you thoughts about EVOLUTION?
[8)][8)][8D][8D][:D][:D][:)][:)][:p][:p][:o)][:I][:I][:I]
 

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #1 on: 01/02/2004 17:51:25 »
I think pretty much everyone here would choose evolution over the alternatives.  It's a sound theory that has tremendous evidence behind it.  For those who choose other beliefs as to the origins of life, that's great for them, but there is generally no convincing them of anything else.  We could explore the entire universe, genetically lengthen our lives so that we do not die of natural aging, and even find life on other planets and you'll still have fundamentalists saying "But you haven't DISPROVED creation."  It's maddening.




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Offline pipster

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #2 on: 02/02/2004 14:59:04 »
How about "God is the Why? of science."
 

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Offline Q and A

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #3 on: 03/02/2004 05:15:43 »
Once you dive so far into science, you can't help but believe in a maker...

Q+A=Knowledge^2
Q+A=Knowledge^2

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Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #4 on: 03/02/2004 13:08:08 »
God is something people made up because they were too uncomfortable with not knowing things. This God figure answers every unanswerable question and made people a lot happier. Unfortunately now the idea has stuck around, when there are people who want to find out for themselves and not stick to an idea created by humans and not found out from the natural world.

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Offline Tann San

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #5 on: 03/02/2004 14:14:58 »
Hehe I can't wait till we bump into some aliens in space and someone from here says "Take me to your leader.."  then they say "let us introduce our leader...Gawd and his son Jesuus"

(just a joke)
 

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #6 on: 03/02/2004 15:55:38 »
QandA:  Believing in a maker and believing in the religions that exist on this planet are two different things.  I have serious problems with the messages, literature, leadership, and philosophies of just about every religion.  The only ones I really like are the Zen Buddhists but I still don't think they're right, they're just cool enough to leave people alone.  

But I agree in the sense that things seem to be too well put together to have happened at random.  The origins of the universe are a mystery that we won't find out until we die.  At that point we'll either know or we'll be too dead to care.





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Offline Q and A

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #7 on: 03/02/2004 22:24:33 »
Yeah,  
     I should have clarified a bit. Spitiuality and "organized" religion are two seperate animals. Organized religion is a crock. Especially any of them that are "the only right way". To be that arrogant and naive is beyond me...
     But to have one's own belief structure is okay by me. Personally, I always fall to nature, because Mother always takes care of things one way or another. Nature is IT to me. The natural order of the universe. The ebb and flow. And the fast that it is all around us, happens every day, and we still can't understand it says alot to me.
     But Religion or Government, is a must in today's society. Simply put, people in the masses need rules, (especially Americans). If they don't have them then they are afraid. If rules aren't given to them, then they create their own. People find security in conformity, at the very least.

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #8 on: 03/02/2004 23:30:20 »
It's just too bad that the people making the rules have their own agenda.

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #9 on: 04/02/2004 18:12:05 »
I think there is a Universal consciousness, God if you like, but that it is actually a collective intelligence that we are all a minute part of.  That's why what we do to others we also do to ourselves.  Natural cause and effect.  There's no escaping it.
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Offline tweener

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #10 on: 04/02/2004 20:47:45 »
quote:
Originally posted by cannabinoid

It's just too bad that the people making the rules have their own agenda.

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Power, Money, Sex, and Fame.  Everyone has an agenda that is some combination of these.  Personally, I like the middle two.  [:D]

I agree with Quantumcat on the purpose for God.  A concept that people generate to answer questions that they don't or can't understand.


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Offline Ultima

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #11 on: 05/02/2004 19:11:52 »
Somebody mentioned that there must be some sort of underlying creator to the universe because things fit so neatly together. The reason for this is that people go to great lengths to invent maths so that we can better express and simplify our understanding of the universe. Maths’ only models the universe; it does not, and will most likely never truly resemble the actual nature of the universe.

wOw the world spins?
« Last Edit: 05/02/2004 19:13:01 by Ultima »
wOw the world spins?

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Offline pencilhead

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #12 on: 17/02/2004 09:06:02 »
There is no god otherwise I wouldn't be stuck in a rut.  God would have gotten me out and not watched me.  Okay I am GODDD!!!!  I am getting myself out of it.  SO YEAH blah blah blah...

ON with the good stuff:
I will tell you what there is.  There is emotion and the otherside that counters emotions which is?  Reasoning and not logic.  Emotion and Reasoning would probably get us logic???  When our emotions and our reasoning go together we makes something and that is being creative.  That creativity is our logic.  We have the ability to reason because we need to makes sense of our environment or things around us that will help us survive.  We weren't made to logic at first.  WE were made to survive.  Then after we learned to do so we began to use our emotions in different ways.  We began to discover that we could reason more deeply because we had more time.  IN that we had more rules to reason with.  When we think we are logic it's because our emotional side and reasoning agrees.  Logic is just feeling that what we have tried to create/made is logical or RIGHT through reasoning?  Where does god come in.  There are so many beautiful overwhelming things.  I didn't make it.  I know because my emotion and reasoning says I myself could not create it. What did?  A higher being something at a higher level than I.  What is this higher being called?  We decided to call it GOD!  I am GOD!!  THis logic was simple and felt right through reasoning with emotion.  NOw since there is so much organized complexity there must be a god?  Why because if you didn't make it and I didn't then who?  WHere did it all come from?  THE UNIVERSE?  ENERGY?  um...  It came from god.  I will say that our primitive minds are very very very young.  OUr earth is very very young for being here 6 billion years.  There are old civilizations out there.  We still can't get past childhood misconceptions we are very very infantile.  We are still growing and very young!!  There are others who have already gone past our technology.  Isn't that a great thought?  Isn't that logical?  Maybe not?  Maybe so?  IS there a god I think not why?  Because my mind is constantly looking for an answer to my questions.  Have I've gotten an answer to something that I can't answer?  NO therefore there is no god because I cannot state yes to a question i cannot answer.  It's not an abstract question this question is very hard to answer because we are infantiles.  We are all still growing.  We don't have the means of digging up the answer to such question.  Many have died in the question with no answer.  I have no proof I only have conjectures.  FOr now god is the creator of energy.  Whoever made energy made the beginning of everything.  That doesn't mean an atom it could mean the smallest thing that makes up an atom.  That is not my god but the creator.  As a matter of fact I don't need god.  I am a god and I have myself.  I want to know how I can use my brain to it's full potential.  Is there a god?  YES ME! hahah [:)]
 

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Offline pencilhead

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #13 on: 17/02/2004 09:11:40 »
I hope it's understandable.  I have bad grammer skills.  My punctuation needs work.
So what does anyone think?
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #14 on: 17/02/2004 19:01:45 »
The bible (and all it's derivatives) is the best selling book of fiction ever, well the most widely distributed anyway....the second best selling book of all time ?...the Guinesss Book Of Records....recording Human achievments.....amazing eh ?

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #15 on: 18/02/2004 00:07:28 »
The Bible is a best seller, and whether you believe in God or not, there are some very good lessons in the Bible and good rules for leading your life to keep your ass out of serious trouble.  You can't knock that!

I worked one of the most critical ER's in the country for three years, and I've seen some serious non-believers begin to pray when they think they're going to die.  Even seen doctors pray with their patients before their surgery.  No harm in it.  And I've got to tell you, I think I've seen some miracles too.  Seems to me the people with a strong sense of spirituality have better peace of mind.
 

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #16 on: 18/02/2004 02:00:58 »
Either way we have a 50 - 50 chance of being right.  There is a God or there isn't.  When faced with those odds I figure why not go with the answer that benefits me the most?  Like Bezoar says, miracles sometimes happen when people believe.  Whether that's due to God's work or comes from the fact that people believe, the benefits are tangible.
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Offline Ylide

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #17 on: 18/02/2004 02:07:54 »
There are also some very bad lessons in the Bible.  Slaying first-born sons of an entire kingdom, burning heretics, killing homosexuals, adulterers, and people who worship OTHER gods.  Overall, it emphasizes vengeance and self-righteousness as much as it does love and compassion.  The message of the Bible is essentially "You're my creations and I love you all, but do what I say or you'll burn in hell forever, you miserable heathens!"   Nice God you got there.  

Spirituality is another story.  It's healthy and emotionally fulfilling to try and connect with a higher power.  However, organized monotheistic religion has brought out some of the worst qualities in man.







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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #18 on: 18/02/2004 10:11:29 »
I wasn't being critical of any good lessons in the bible, and I'm not diminishing the fact that there are events which seem like miracles, but doesn't the term miracle by definition mean divine intervention ?..I was just merely stating my opinion about the bible being a work of fiction...that's all.

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Offline pencilhead

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #19 on: 18/02/2004 10:50:18 »
"miracles"  I think when people believe god can help them they pray to the obvious answer.  Ure brain knows what you want at that time.  IT wants the sick to heal.  So when you pray you use mind power to help heal the sick.  Mind power is very very powerful.  Sometimes believing in a higherbeing is easier because you believe that that higherbeing will help you out.  What really does happen is your mind is set in helping what needs help because you really use your minds together.  Do chants believe and trust in yourself and see what will happen.  You can't put your trust in someone else you have to trust yourself.  You have to love yourself and see that you are the sailor of your ship.  You have the capacity to help others and that it's not god.  

About god?  Answering if there is a god is very hard to do when u know that I can do the same things he does if I were using the full potential of my brain, but too many human blocks in present day society.  Worries, stress, toxins etc...
I just can't have faith in something I can't see and that hasn't proven themselves to me after I've tried so hard to prove myself to them?  U know?  That's like having faith that u will get 1 million dollars from bill gates or lottery for no apparent reason.
 

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Offline pencilhead

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #20 on: 18/02/2004 11:05:06 »
some people might say go back to god?  or god loves you or dog still loves you?  why do you hate god and stuff like that.

I think to myself?  huh?  I don't hate god.  I hate that it was given to me and blocked so much potential that I have.  Who is god?  I love god, i do love myself.  there is good things in it though.  wisdom from the older generations that are still valid maxims today.  

About science and god mixing?  They can mix but it would be this really weird incoherent mix from time to time.

THere reason there has to be a maker is because our mind wants to believe in this higher being who made everything so perfect.  Our logic is kinda cruel to us.  Whoever programmed us did a somewhat good job of trying to keep us into their program.  WE try to jump out but go back to wanting to believe in a higher being.  that is what we search for in life something that created what we can't.  I have found a higher being in my life.  My girlfriend.  She is a goddess.  WHen u use the elements of the earth you will produce marvelous things because the elements are there used to create what nature can create.  We can reverse everything we can do anything.  For every disease thereis a cure for every medicine thereis a diease.  for every cure there is a way.  for every way there is a road.  ok going off the topic. everything the human can think of is reachable.  WHY?  because we are using the mind an intrument that sees and can build out of what we see that is around.  Our minds see things and make things from what we have seen.  Nothing is original.  Everything that flows through our heads has been seen by the mind and manipulated in some way to form a new idea.   An idea that came from pieces of everything that you had saw sometimes in your life.  HOw could the mind make something out of nothing?  that is impossible, we have to have information.
 

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #21 on: 18/02/2004 13:27:07 »
There is an old saying that says to pray as if everything depended on God, and work as if everything depended on man.  To me, that means, you can't screw up and then pray for God to fix it, then be mad when it doesn't get fixed.  You have to do your share, or believe in yourself, as pencilhead puts it.  Since we were created with a "superior" mind, I would suppose that our creator intends for us to use it to help ourselves.  I never did agree just praying but not taking any action on your own to right the situation, but when you hit a wall and there's nothing else you can do, for me, praying helps.  If you would rather accept that things are hopeless and that gives you more peace of mind, then go for it.
« Last Edit: 18/02/2004 13:29:35 by bezoar »
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #22 on: 18/02/2004 21:34:46 »
Cripes !!...all I gave was my opinion on the authenticity of the facts behind the bible.....my opinion only and I'll fight for the right for anyone to have theirs too, but I would never preach or try to convert a person to my why of thinking because I strongly believe in the right of freedom of expression as long as it's not adversarial to incite. The fact that we all have differing opinions is just what makes this world so wonderfully cosmopolitan, I would never accept that things are hopeless...I never said that....I just have a confidence that aids me when I need it and I entreat to myself, to call upon my own form of focusing when I feel the need to....I personally do not believe in any form of higher power (that is just my personal opinion)...the Universe went on quite happily for billions of years without me and will continue in it's own merry way with one second bumping into another for billions of years after I've gone too.

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #23 on: 20/02/2004 01:53:08 »
Yeah, but look at all the great discussion that came out of our different opinions.  I love it.  Hey, and there's nothing wrong with confidence in yourself.  Sure makes life a lot more comfortable.
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #24 on: 20/02/2004 03:20:40 »
Absolutely right, couldn't agree more.......sorry, hope I didn't mean to portray such a defensive posture...forgive ?


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Offline pencilhead

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #25 on: 20/02/2004 09:07:56 »
I LOVE MATURE PEEPS hehehe I am still alittle on the otherside.
So now that we know your beliefs or some peoples.  Those who believe in a higher being/god.  Do you believe GOD AND SCIENCE miX?
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #26 on: 20/02/2004 15:16:01 »
....personally, my opinion, I think God and Science do mix, as a subject for deliberation, consideration and debate, but, as a non believer I personally can not entertain the possibility of a Scientific topic based on fact mixing with a power above the forces of nature, though, I am always willing to be convinced and so retain an open mind , not one that is so closed that's it's locked !!!....and I love mature peeps too !!..one day I hope to be one !!!...cheeky !!!

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #27 on: 20/02/2004 23:17:15 »
Yep, God and science mix for me without any problem.  Hey Neilep, did you call yourself that as a word scramble for penile?  Teasing you!  No offense taken by anyone's comments.  I would hope we're all open-minded enough to entertain other opinions.  But mature peep?  Does that mean old broad like me?
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #28 on: 21/02/2004 03:39:30 »

 
Nancy,....You made me do a big smile and chuckle !!....you know I've never noticed that before, about my username being a word scramble for Penile !!!....you can tell I'm not an anagram addict can't you ?......But neilep is a just my first name(neil) with the first two letters of my surname (Epstein)....oh boy !!(seems I'm in 'bracket/parenthisis mode').......I'm such a dufus brain cos when I registered I didn't realise I was putting my email address as my username !!! but then, it was about 4:30am when I registered so at least I have tiredness to blame for that silly faux pas !!...


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Offline OmnipotentOne

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #29 on: 21/02/2004 05:21:42 »
If the universe is said to come to an end, but instantly begin again, then why cant it go along side with an ultimate ruler that will also begin again?
To see a world in a grain of sand.

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Offline OmnipotentOne

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #30 on: 21/02/2004 05:31:33 »
Normally i dont make fun of sites devoted to religion, but this one time i make an exception.  This has to be some kind of conspiracy. http://objective.jesussave.us/kidz.html hmm my favorite things mentioned are kanga-jew, the christian thong, and how dinosaurs still walk on the land.....Seriously i guarantee you will laugh after seeing this site!!!!!!
To see a world in a grain of sand.

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #31 on: 21/02/2004 13:28:09 »
Hi OmnipotentOne,

Divine Intervention !!!!!...your link above keeps taking me to a site called...paysforsurveys.com....


Regarding as to why there should not be an ultimate ruler that goes side by side with the Universe.....I personally am not dismissing the possibility....but my opinion is that I find it extremely hard to believe without proof that I can see !!!..I will not accept the fact that one has to have faith and believe in a supernatural entity without substantiation......you could also say then, that why not beside God and The Universe is a supreme all-powerful Peanut M&M !!...or anything for that matter.......wish I could get to your link, I need a good laugh, haven't slept in 36hours....

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Offline MissMontana

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #32 on: 21/02/2004 16:15:14 »
Neil,  this has bog all to do with anything but if you need a laugh have a look at this
http://www.talibanreunited.com/
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #33 on: 21/02/2004 17:32:57 »
T G, that's great (lol, that cured my laugh depletion !!).....have you seen this one ? http://fatwasam.com/index.htm

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #34 on: 22/02/2004 16:37:00 »
Neil,
I frankly think you should change your name to penile.  Why don't you sleep on it and let me know?  Ooooh, low blow.  Seriously, is there nothing that can be done about your sleep deprivation?  What a bummer!

Omni One,
Checked out your site.  Didn't find anything about dinosaurs, but I loved the stuff about atheists.  Very funny.

Just checked out the other two sites.  You guys must be internet junkies.  Where and how do you find all these sites?  They're hysterical.  I understand that Penile doesn't sleep, but what about you, Omni?
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #35 on: 22/02/2004 17:18:32 »
Nancy !!..why you !!!!!  :-) .....*sigh*......I wish I could change my name , don't think I can unless I register again........Getting to sleep is an ongoing process for me......I'll get there in the end.....still....one day I'll sleep forever won't I ?.......

I still get routed to another website when I click on Omnis Link *sob, jealous gripe*

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Offline MissMontana

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #36 on: 22/02/2004 18:10:44 »
Neil,
I get redirected to paysforsurveys too, tried to alter the address a bit too and the same thing happens.  The last count was 36 hours without sleep, have you slept since or can we expect some random and very strange comments soon?
Bezoar,
Luckily not internet junkie as I'd never get anything done but do know a lot of them so I just get to see the funny stuff (sent to me by people who don't get anything done lol)
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #37 on: 22/02/2004 21:17:42 »
Flibble tibble pzzzzzzzzzzt !!!...back door front door !!!....whooopey !!! *sulk yawn*

I did manage to sleep last night/this morning.....I remember listening to the 6am news on the radio and the next thing it was 8:30am.......oh boy !!...2.5 hours...that's almost a good night for me !!!.....Yep !!..I don't want payforsurveys.com....perhaps it's a UK  routing thing !!...surely there's a scientist out there who could answer why that's happening, hopefully we'll come across a site where scientists answer things and stuff like that..................DOH !!!

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #38 on: 24/02/2004 02:18:04 »
Hey Penile,
Saw a site that might interest you.  Check out http://www.sleepbetter.com.au/sb_geral.htm.  It's supposed to be some new technique for people with brittle sleep disorders, like you.  Sweet Dreams!!!!
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #39 on: 24/02/2004 03:19:18 »
grrrrr !!*cheeky grin*...thanks Nancy :-) I'll check it out......if you don't hear from me within 6 months you can rest assured I have fallen asleep.

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #40 on: 25/02/2004 00:49:54 »
quote:
Originally posted by OmnipotentOne

Normally i dont make fun of sites devoted to religion, but this one time i make an exception.  This has to be some kind of conspiracy. http://objective.jesussave.us/kidz.html hmm my favorite things mentioned are kanga-jew, the christian thong, and how dinosaurs still walk on the land.....Seriously i guarantee you will laugh after seeing this site!!!!!!


Looks like another "Fleece the Flock" site.  For $8.50 you can have Ruby's Matrimony Thong and for another $16.50 you can have Ruby's Box.
"Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms." - Audrey Hepburn

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Offline tweener

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #41 on: 25/02/2004 02:43:32 »
I went to that site and it scared the he** out of me.  Killed it quick!

You can all just send the money to me.  You'll get just as much value and it will be going to a much better cause (at least in my opinion).  [:D]


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John
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John - The Eternal Pessimist.

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #42 on: 26/02/2004 05:08:35 »
Penile,

Do they call that sleep or hibernation?
 

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #43 on: 26/02/2004 11:01:24 »
'Penile can't come to the PC right now, he is too busy burrowing a hole in the arctic and sharing it with some polar bears'

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #44 on: 27/02/2004 00:53:56 »
Polar bears don't hibernate.
"Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms." - Audrey Hepburn

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #45 on: 27/02/2004 03:42:09 »
[;)]Ok Donnah...thanks for putting the record straight...I'll just snuggle up to  a preggy polar bear in it's Den for a while and hope it won't mind :-) [:D]

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #46 on: 29/02/2004 02:51:56 »
Pick a dirty bear.  The cleaner a polar bear is, the longer it's been since s/he ate.[:D]
"Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms." - Audrey Hepburn

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #47 on: 29/02/2004 04:13:10 »
Uh oh !!!..too late !!!...this bear is nice and cle......*CHOMP*.......OUCH !!!!!!!!![:D][:o)]

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #48 on: 02/03/2004 04:17:59 »
Oh, I forgot to mention that you look like a nice, light snack.  Neil...Neil...oops, too late.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2004 22:02:24 by Donnah »
"Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms." - Audrey Hepburn

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Offline neilep

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Re: Science and God - Does it mix ?
« Reply #49 on: 02/03/2004 22:12:26 »
I know this has nothing to do with Science and God but it's dark in here !!!!.....and this bear has a bad case of wind too !!....I feel like Moby Dick !!

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'
Men are the same as women, just inside out !