DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??

  • 45 Replies
  • 15632 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« on: 30/01/2007 00:16:32 »
If everything on earth that is a living organism has a sub-conscience...would one consider the earth itself a living organism?  If so, I have a broad theory on global warming and why the ice caps are melting.  We all know the earth has heated and cooled itself over millions of years.  Is this because of the sun...OR is this Because the earth itself can control it's own heat just like you and I can.  Even to the extent of attracting and detracting the sun's potential for more or less heat?????????? anyone?


*

Offline ukmicky

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 3011
    • View Profile
    • http://www.space-talk.com/
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #1 on: 30/01/2007 00:47:47 »
NA

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #2 on: 30/01/2007 03:03:55 »
NA? could u explain why?

*

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 20602
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #3 on: 30/01/2007 04:20:06 »
Hi Jason !

Are you sure that we (you and I) can control our own heat ?

Welcome to the forum by the way !!
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

*

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • 31662
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #4 on: 30/01/2007 04:28:49 »
Welcome Jason. I know I can't seem to control my own body temps..I am either freezing or too hot, seldom in between..as we speak I am warming up by a little electric heater as there is no one home and due tome unmentioned issued I can't split wood or haul it in.. Kids all moved out and hubby is off in the darkness woking on the a recontruction job on the bay repairing some dikes and the levy.. Lots of hauling  ^:00 Pm until 8:oo am.. I get to sleep in me bed .. if I can go to sleep! LOL

Anyway I am cold and seem to have no control short of turning on the heat and sitting on top of the little heater box.. How do you control your body temperature without the aid of outside help????

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #5 on: 31/01/2007 04:12:19 »
Well I recently read an e-book explaining into great detail how the sub-conscience mind works.  The book says your subconscience is born the second the very first cell is born??  It goes on to say that, that is the part of your mind that controls things such as body temperature...I"M NOT SAYING YOU CAN CONTROL IT PHSYCIALLY but MENTALLY YOU CAN SCREW IT UP...TRUST ME READ ON ABOUT MENTAL ISSUES...This part of your mind also tells every organ in your body what to do.  FOR EXAMPLE...IT"S COLD OUTSIDE...YOU GO OUT YOUR BRAIN SAYS IT"S COLD OUTSIDE I MUST WARM UP MY BODY OR I WILL FREEZE TO DEATH...THAT IS YOUR SUBCONSCIENCE...Your subconscience tells the blood cells to form clots when you cut yourself.  You don't tell yourself to breath.  Your mind does it for you.  BUT HEAR THIS.  I in the past few years had a bad car wreck which gave me P.T.S.D.(panic attacks)  To make a long story short I'm over it now because I had basically had to learn certain things all over again, such as controling breathing and dealing with certain situations of fear.  Your mind in a situation like this...can have thoughts so bizarre that you can trick your subconscience to the point your breating patterns become irregular, and therefore your heartbeat also does weird things such as race.  In return your body tempature can change as a result...with enough stress on my body I can prove this any day of the week anyone wants to test me :)


BUTTTTT  All I'm asking...is if we humans have such a bizzare mind that it can control that many functions in the background everyday that we don't even realize.  Along with every living thing on earth...EXAMPLE...LEAVES TURN UPSIDE DOWN BEFORE A STORM...THAT TREE HAS A CONSCIENCE OF SOMESORT THAT TELLS IT TO DO THAT...WHAT THE HECK ELSE WOULD???  MY question, is would one consider the earth itself has these same magical powers that every living organism known to man has????

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #6 on: 31/01/2007 11:20:41 »
Welcome to the forum Jason. I have read all your 11 contributions to this board and suggest that you first calm down a bit and you might be able to learn some real science instead of the hyped up pseudoscience that you seem to be infected with that has released the bees that seem to be buzzing round in your bonnet.


Once I had realised that by sub-conscience you were meaning subconscious your question here made more sense.  to gave a subconscious reaction one must first have a conscious one and I think that you would probably agree that the earth is not self consious in that does not have a considered reaction that it communicates to others.

To learn more about the underlying processes that maintain the earth I suggest you read the books by James Lovelock and his Gaia theories ans suggest you study more respected scientific journals rather than concentrate too much on the hyped up rubbish that often appears in the popular press or on more extreme websites.

Your stuff on other sections of this website about nuclear tests is total rubbish and I am not prepared to waste my time going through the many details where your understanding of the true science is very wrong.

Finally with regard to the starting and ending of the universe.  we have to make measurements and study what happened in the past to have any hope of understanding what might happen in the future but the universe is such an indescribably large place there is absolutely no hope of mankind ever going to visit more than a tiny part of it.  The universe will also last much longer than life on this planet so if you are concerned about our more immediate future you should get to understand the real science behind global warming and not rush off to try to invent your own.
« Last Edit: 31/01/2007 11:27:04 by Soul Surfer »
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline thebrain13

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 442
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #7 on: 31/01/2007 19:47:06 »
lol Soul Surfer=Simon Cowell. Always Brutal and ALMOST always right.

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #8 on: 31/01/2007 21:27:04 »
Well you hit a few nails on the head, but for the most part everything I'm suggesting is coming from myself...not popular magazines...I just feel based upon past experiences we always look too deep into things, and the answer always seems lie within simple understanding and reach.  The reason for my concern with the blasts is that I feel there is inconclusive evidence on how much matter truely exists in the atmosphere from these blasts...the graphs and charts that are available, if you find it's true source, it's based on very little of the blasts.  These graphs and charts only include select tests.  In which I feel the most dangerous testing that was done, has not been included into what is available.  There needs to be NEW TESTS done with EVERY SINGLE BLAST put into the charts including : underground, above ground, and in the oceans.  We see everyday how much they underestimated the radiation exposure they have caused with the tests.  The americans in 1962 designed a system on how far they could test to the limit w/o us all being mutated into crazy creatures.  I feel this limit has breached enough to cause major implications such as the disease rate we have today, along with unknown circumstances they people have overlooked somehow. 

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #9 on: 31/01/2007 21:36:17 »
As far subconscious goes, I'm basically just trying to link everything we know that exists has some form of reproduction.  If everything we see, touch, hear, or smell has a sense of reproduction...why wouldn't the universe consist of these same principles...meaning it could be any sense of reproduction but to some sort.  I'm also comparing the electrical elements that make up the human body and those elements such as the human mind all work electrically.  I'm trying to find a link between a living organism that we know is full of electrical energy and the earths electrical energy itself?  Do you see what I'm saying? The similarities between the two I think are pretty great.  Nevermind the physical things we know such as plate tectonis, the atmosphere, and the sun doing it's thing, but KEEP in mind this all boils down to ELECTRICAL charged particles...the same as in our bodies.

*

Offline Hadrian

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 2175
  • Scallywag
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #10 on: 31/01/2007 22:31:56 »
If everything on earth that is a living organism has a sub-conscience...would one consider the earth itself a living organism?  If so, I have a broad theory on global warming and why the ice caps are melting.  We all know the earth has heated and cooled itself over millions of years.  Is this because of the sun...OR is this Because the earth itself can control it's own heat just like you and I can.  Even to the extent of attracting and detracting the sun's potential for more or less heat?????????? anyone?

I like to know what is your model of a sub-conscience before I could begin to address your question..

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #11 on: 31/01/2007 23:28:48 »
Jason,  I am a great believer in innovative thinking and would not discourage people from doing it.  I also believe that it is quite possible to know too much to innovate effectively.  However it is important to know AND UNDERSTAND how many of the laws of physics work before trying to innovate into areas of uncertainty Your suggestions come under the category of wishful thinking and not on the basis of any true science.  Radiation and radioactive fallout are one of the things that it is possible to observe with the highest possible precision because individual atoms may be easily detected.  Witness how in the recent investigations over the Russian who was poisoned using polonium 210 the presence of contamination could be detected at critical locations all over London to form an evidence trail that points towards a person who was likely to be involved with the administration of the poison.  It is therefore higly unlikely that any significant outcome of ratiation effectas in the global environment has been missed by professional scientists working in the field.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #12 on: 01/02/2007 01:04:53 »
Well I understand what your saying and I would like to agree w/ what your saying but above all you just mentioned of London, that was on the ground material your talking about...not upper atmosphere....some of these particles make it to the outtermost atmosphere even from the middle layer where it originally resides and falls back to earth(fallout).  When I wrote NASA asking if they knew the amount of this prescense of material in the outtermost atmospheric levels.  They never wrote back.  Usually I get a not interested, or a NA.  I got nothing this time, which puzzles me.  Not a f u. Notta nothing :) Shortly thereafter I'd read in science news that they're deploying all these new satellites to study the magnetic field in great detail and how the suns reaction affects it.  My suggestion to them was based exactly around that information.  As to if anything from those blasts were collecting near the poles?  Leftover material that never falls back to earth but instead travels upward to the outtermost layer.  And what happens to "that material"?  I'm talking more than just carbon from the blasts there's also other material that goes up.  Have you read the recently release classified documents from the testing period of 1962??

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #13 on: 01/02/2007 01:11:08 »
But besides the other things...anyone care to explain to me because I really don't know...but why a tree turns over its leaves just before the storm...and how this tree knows the storm is coming?
And nother question off subject...but global warming...if we happen to overpush the carbon...which it is reaching it's highest level ever...can the atmosphere explode on a major release of methane from the permafrost?

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #14 on: 01/02/2007 09:10:21 »
The precise composition of the upper atmosphere is very well known and measured regularly down to extremely small quantity trace compounds using several sattellites.  This information is probably available on several websites if you wish to look at it so there was no need to reply.  Any risks related to human activity have also probably been identified and well publicised in the scientific literature.

Which sorts of trees do you see turning over their leaves and how long before the storm was it?

Carbon dioxide is far from reaching its highest level ever in the atmosphere it has several times in the far distant past been much higher than it is at the moment.

Methane release from permafrost only presents a small risk of local fire as it comes out of the ground (these small flames known in the UK as "will'o the wisps" occur over bogs globally) and explosions are very unlikely.  By the time it gets into the upper atmosphere it is far too dilute to burn
« Last Edit: 01/02/2007 09:15:21 by Soul Surfer »
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline WylieE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 236
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #15 on: 01/02/2007 16:29:15 »
Hi Jason,
 I just thought I'd jump in here with one thought- Not the topic of the thread, I know, but on your question on trees, although I don't know exactly what you are referring to, my guess is that it is a humidity issue.  Most plants can sense small changes in humidity and sunlight very easily and will adjust their leaves accordingly.
 
Plants are faced with a connundrum, they want to keep their water, but need to exchange air to get fresh CO2 in and get rid of oxygen (the opposite of us) they do this through openings in the leaves called stomata.  Stomata are kept under tight control only opening enough to allow a bit of air exchange and minimum loss of water (they need some loss of water to help transport water up from the roots- but that's another story).  However, on a humid day, they won't lose as much water so they can open their stomata a bit more.  This combined with the humidity change will leave (ha ha) them a bit limp and more likely to flop around in the wind (which also tends to pick up a bit more before a storm).  Poplar trees seem to be exceptionally prone to this. 

  I am leaving out a lot of details, but the point is that the trees aren't really anticipating a storm, but are reather sensitive indicators of what the current conditions are.  Something to keep in mind when you are debating on taking an umbrella or not.

Colleen

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #16 on: 01/02/2007 18:54:53 »
Ok in that sense on the trees...according to the ebook I read on subconscious and how it works...from what I got outta the book...basically it's stating your subconscious is born by the first cell that's created...due to the fact that your subconscious controls these cells for the rest of it's life...but I don't see the relation myself.  But I wonder, how is the leaf that smart?  What tells it too much water, not enough water.  It must be human-like in some sort of sense, but what sense?  We know not to stand next to trees during lightning therefore theres the electrical ground in the tree.  There is electrical charges in the water.  What I'm getting at is all living things interact using some form of electricity.  So the earth having a subconscious, I'm more so saying, the earth can and will do things on its on to save itself in a given situation...just as a tree would hold more water because it sensed a drought coming on or opened it's pores because the rain is coming.  Would one consider the earth itself a live and living organism, just a great big huge one? 

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #17 on: 01/02/2007 19:07:40 »
As for CO2 levels....BBC NEWS says this "We find that CO2 is about 30% higher than at any time, and methane 130% higher than at any time; and the rates of increase are absolutely exceptional: for CO2, 200 times faster than at any time in the last 650,000 years."

"The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the body which collates scientific evidence for policymakers, concludes that sea level rose by 1-2mm per year over the last century, and will rise by a total of anything up to 88cm during the course of this century. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4467420.stm [nofollow]



Now tell me how the levels aren't close? They're beyond.  As far methan being highly flamable...how about 450billion tons being emitted all at once in one second from a big bubble?

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #18 on: 01/02/2007 23:59:34 »
650,000 years is a bink in the eye of the 4,000,000,000 year history of the earth  I was talking about many million years ago.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline thebrain13

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 442
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #19 on: 02/02/2007 00:46:18 »
I hate global warming, heres why it wont happen big. Because the warmer the earth is the more infared radiation it will emit (the warmer it is the faster it will lose heat) therefore the unstoppable chain of events that global warming advocates predict will run out of steam over time. And if the world heats up it will be gradual and slow, and we would be able to take precautions to prevent it if the theoretical huge increases of temperature were actually happening.

*

Offline WylieE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 236
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #20 on: 02/02/2007 00:51:03 »
But I wonder, how is the leaf that smart?  What tells it too much water, not enough water.  It must be human-like in some sort of sense, but what sense?

So I guess my interpretation wouldn't be that the leaf is "smart."   

I would say that all living things have an excellent ability to perceive and respond to their surroundings.  In this way we are all similar, from the single celled to worms to humans.  We are able to perceive dangers (the potential for a lightning strike) and opportunities (free food) and make changes that allow each to survive (get away from the tree during a storm).
 
 Organisms that don't adeptly respond to their environment, say the leaves that don't close their stomata and therefore lose their water  don't stick around enough to pass their DNA on the the next generation, so we are only left with those that do.  Same thing for the humans hanging out next to the trees during a lightning storm (or worse yet, golfing).

It works the other way too, if a mutation happens that allows one plant to do something better, say open stomata more when it is humid (therefore they can do more photosynthesis and make more sugar)- plants that have this ability will be able to produce more offspring and will compete out the plants that don't have this ability.  Again, the humans that remember to stay far away from trees, and water, and golf clubs when it is lighting; and remember not to eat the poisonous plants; and remember not to play with grizzly bears have a better chance of passing on their DNA so this means the humans that we see today have a pretty good ability to learn and remember. (OK, it's a really over-simplistic example)

 So we come along and see a plant that can do this and think "Wow, isn't that cool that plant 'knows' when it's humid out" Yes, it is totally cool, but we have to remember that living organisms we see today have been evolving to the best way to make sure their offspring are the most successful for a long, long time.  The actual process of how the plant knows if it is humid or not or cloudy or not are really chemical reactions that are sensed in the leaves and communicated to the rest of the plant via hormones.  So yes, the tree "knows it's wet" but in the same way that a computer "knows" you pressed the 'A' key there is input and there is an output that is consistent, but that wouldn't make me say the computer was smart or human-like.


Colleen

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #21 on: 02/02/2007 18:11:09 »
The Brain, you obviously aren't using multi billion dollar equipment to test your theoretical sentence with.  ANYONE READ THE BRIEFING ON THE REPORT COMING OUT??  They are 90 percent sure we humans are the cause and it "IS" happening today, now!  Exxon mobile is offering PAYMENTS TO SCIENTISTS that are willing to curb this idea in the reports.  That my friends is redicioulous however u spell it.  Washington is also offering a much cheaper 10,000 bucks to do the same.  What has this country come to???? Is profits from oil really worth losing the entire planet???

*

Offline thebrain13

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 442
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #22 on: 02/02/2007 19:47:27 »
Well, has it happened yet? Okay, I know people have raised the temperature of the earth. If I light a match the temperature of the earth raises. But It would only be a problem if we raised it alot. Even with our gratuitious use of Co2 in the past we have raised the temperature on earth to a maximum of 1 degree. Give me one reason the temperature on earth would suddenly violently exlode upwards, as to cause irrevocable change. What are we doing now that we werent doing before? And if it did start moving upwards(quickly not slowly like it is right now) why would we be powerless to help?

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #23 on: 03/02/2007 07:53:38 »
Because it's like this, the predictions we have of it...now officially released to media, shows the summary in a sentence or two.  It's here, it's bad.  And people like you will see...1 degree on earth my friend means a whole lot in your backyard...esp when it could be 11 degrees in  the 21st century vs 2 in the past...hello??  and who "really knows" how much, or how fast???  what we do know is that it's HERE...and it's a PLACE YOU N I HAVE NEVER BEEN :) nor the scientists that are studying it...so...there's your answer =)

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #24 on: 03/02/2007 08:03:02 »
and also the earth isn't a toy...it was made for adults...something our parent generation knows nothing about sometimes...sorry for those I offended...you guys just don't think it through, taking shortcuts always...why would one wait until it happened before you fix it?  If you throw rocks at glass houses, once you let go of the rock...it's too late...sometimes in life bad things win...keep that in mind...and you'll begin to give a crap...it isn't that hard to conceive

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #25 on: 03/02/2007 09:53:37 »
Jason,  the real problem is the excessive number of people on the earth not what they are doing and every year that the total population of human beings on the earth increases it will get worse.  If there were only about 10% of the total population we have now we could do what we like, all be very wealthy and do at least as much high tech stuff as we do now.  The real problem is how to achieve this level of population without having to kill 90% of the world's population by waging destructive wars.  because that is what we will do if push comes to shove!
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #26 on: 03/02/2007 10:25:31 »
One thing that you may not be aware of is that I and most of the scientific community have been well aware of the threat of global warming for more than 50 years. 

There are two real problems with our political and economic systems. firstly democratic politicions tend to think only short term.  as far as the next election.  Economists only think in terms of growth and youth and have no idea how to work an economic system where the population is declining and getting biased towards the elderly. 

The direct central control ideas of communism have proved to be inefficient and reactionary. All economies need entrepreneurs and an element of democracy to work but we desperately need some sort of effective global organisation with teeth to look long term keep us on the right track to prevent us from destroying the planet one way or another.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #27 on: 06/02/2007 04:48:54 »
I totally agree...if you ask me...I think part of the Iraq situation is for them to start a world war right in the middle east so this necessary action will happen.   Our biggest problem we face I think is that the U.S. is 25% contributors...so what are they gonna do...just kill us? If we don't change our ways.  I have never agreed with a one world government, until the environment situation arised, and now I'm totally for it.  It's the only way we can survive.  I don't think the people of nations honestly care...as long as we know and still vote for the rules that apply to us. 

*

Offline thebrain13

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 442
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #28 on: 06/02/2007 18:05:23 »
jason I dont think you think it through. I bet you dont even know how greenhouse gases heat the earth. You are completely politically biased, how are you any different from exxon mobile? I dont belong to any political party, and I think its stupid how everyone thinks that they are totally right about everything and that the other half of the population is totally wrong. If you want to argue about the science of it, Im all ears, but leave the political garbage out of the science forum.

And a one degree change does nothing, its allready happened and we are fine. a seven degree change would raise the ocean level two feet (which will never happen btw). A bigger problem is running out of fuels to release co2. And even if we could raise the temp 7 degrees, it would still be a minor problem. Think about all the positives, more farmland, more co2 for plants to use. Who is it really going to hurt, not russians alaskans or canadiens. Who have tons of land that is almost useless because it is too cold. Maybe it would suck for people who live near the equator, well believe it or not, the warming of the earth is less for the warmer parts on earth, and more for the cooler parts. Thats because the greenhouse gas water vapor in those areas completely drowns out the greenhouse gas Co2. Water vapor equals 10,000 ppm worldwide compared to the miniscule 380 ppm Co2 and the concentration of water vapor in warmer climates is much higher than in cooler climates, which in turn nulls the warming affect of Co2. The warming raises the World wide average lows way more than it raises the highs. And it impacts the winter more than the summer. Farming is much easier under the doomsday scenario. That practically outweighs the negatives by itself.

*

Offline tony6789

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 1127
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #29 on: 06/02/2007 18:35:28 »
Im not trying to get any1 mad in an extensive argument but im goin ot have to retaliate on something u have just said Brain.u said quote "And even if we could raise the temp 7 degrees, it would still be a minor problem." unquote.

7 degress may not seem like much to u but actually it is a catosrophic problem.  we humans are so simple minded! u arentlooking at the big picture. EVERYWHERE on ear the temp will b raised 7 degrees!...that could mean melting of the polar icecaps and raiseing the ocean at least 15 feet!! that will ruin houses along ocean coasts...animal habitats..even coral reefs (ex: Great Barrier Reef)...coral reefs cant survive in deep water..so no corals mean no tourists atractions!...thats not all....many people over look the fact that 3 degrees temp change ended the iceage to the temps we have today...so like i said 7 degrees cud b catrostrophic...and dont agrue with me because u won twin this agrument!
LCPL Hart USMC 6400 I Level Avionics

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #30 on: 06/02/2007 18:52:20 »
Thanks tony, I do agree w/ brain on the politics...I will leave them out of the subject for now on.  Yes, 7 degrees worldwide...could mean possibly an extra 20 degrees in your backyard, and maybe a -10 in your neighbors to make up the difference.  It is an AVERAGE.  It does not mean that every place on earth will heat a maximum of 7 degrees.  It means the Average is 7 degrees.  If the average lifespan rose 7 years in the next century that is a big deal.  You still might die at 25 years old.  But your neighbor might live to be 115 or 20.  But can ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS ARTICLE TO ME...WHETHER THIS THEORY IS REAL OR NOT...IT'S ON WEAPONS THAT CONTROL WEATHER USING FAKE ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS....(Tom Barden) http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=38963 [nofollow]

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #31 on: 07/02/2007 10:16:46 »
Glanced at the article and it looks like total rubbish with no sensible scientific basis or explanation with pictures of perfectly normal natural phenomena like aircraft vapour trails given some sort of sinister significance.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #32 on: 07/02/2007 20:50:26 »
THank you and just so you know...they do have technology to make it rain...look up fruit fields in bulgaria...they do it during a drought to save the crop...the send a bomb in the sky and it rains...thanks for wasting my time with your closed mind :)

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #33 on: 07/02/2007 20:52:02 »
p.s. I see you still haven't responded to my message on the shuttle fuel and other chemicals in the outtermost layer crystalizing near the poles...

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #34 on: 07/02/2007 23:26:41 »
You clearly have not read my replies thoroughly.

Also  cloud seeding to increase the probability of rainfall has been known for many years but it cannot cause rain to fall if the air is too dry
« Last Edit: 07/02/2007 23:28:39 by Soul Surfer »
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #35 on: 08/02/2007 08:20:17 »
well that makes sense...can anyone direct me to diagrams or available online imagery of what's in the outtermost layer...or is that available?  I want to know more about the crystalizing of atoms and collection near the poles in that layer in particular.  If anyone has any insight on that subject.  Some 'other peoples' help would be nice besides the same person answering...b/c he tends to only answer what he wants to answer and leaves too many blanks...therefore I'm usually stuck either asking another question pertaining to the exact same thing...or just left wondering...

*

Offline thebrain13

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 442
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #36 on: 08/02/2007 19:02:00 »
Thanks Tony, I never thought about it that way before. Messing up houses that are right next to the water, and messing up the coral reefs for tourists. With all the problems in the world, I'd have to say those are probably number 1 and 2. And they deffinantly outweigh the extra farmland benefeits.

P.S. I cant help it if Im a dick, I was born that way, so take it easy.

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #37 on: 09/02/2007 15:41:31 »
Jason  you seem to keep talking about  "the crystallizing of atoms and collection near the poles in that layer "  but so far I have failed to understand what you are talking about and how it has any bearing on global warming.  I am reasonably well read on the subject and have not come across anything that is similar to what you have said.

Could you please give clear references to this and/or describe what you mean in some detail If you would like me to pass any comments on whether it is relevant.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #38 on: 10/02/2007 06:27:03 »
awesome that's the kind of kindness I've been looking for...you people seem pretty grouchy sometimes.  So what I read was on the excess shuttle fuel, somehow all that water vapor...or whatever it is from that fuel was making it's way to this outtermost thin layer and becomes trapped within.  It goes on to say that this layer is extremely thin, and not very active.  It also mentions that because of this inactivness that those leftover particles were "crystaling" -was their exact words...or freezing or something and seemed to be near the poles.  I'll have to find the article again...but they used the term 'watering a driveway'...it only takes a little to spread a whole lot, on such a thin layer.  So my guess is of course it isn't the problem I'm concerned with on global warming.  It's factors that we may not be seeing that is multiplying it's rate is what I'm concerned with.  As sensitive as the earth is, I would think it wouldn't take much of something to multiply it's factors.  Perhaps if these and other chemicals in the outtermost thin layer are getting stuck there and freezing and crystalizing at the poles...then it's absorbing more of the rays towards the actual poles?  But wouldn't they be able to visually see this happening?

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #39 on: 10/02/2007 06:40:29 »
http://seagrant.uaf.edu/news/03ASJ/08.01.03shuttle-clouds.html [nofollow]

polar mesospheric clouds...isn't the same article I was reading but same exact thing and probably a better source....

when u read this article...the thing that stuck out in my mind, is the part when they say what happens as the sun goes down...it's the only time u can see them...which makes me wonder...maybe they're larger than what we can see..we can only see when the sun is just right at the right angle? dunno i haven't a clue what i'm talking about =)

*

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #40 on: 10/02/2007 15:13:59 »
That looks a reasonable article about the generation of high level clouds from the water vapour exhausts from the space shuttle main engine.  These are similar to the lower level stratospheric clouds created by commercial air traffic whose exhaust is also mostly water vapour with some carbon dioxide.  These are likely to be a cause of a certain degree of global cooling because of the reflection of sunlight into space from the bright clouds and it has been suggested that the increase in air traffic has more of a global cooling effect than a global warming.  It was noted that in the few days after 9/11 that US air traffic was grounded that the sun's intensity was brighter than usual where it was measured on a regular basis.

All these are transient effects and not the main event and there is nothing to get your knickers in a twist about and definitely not the sort of alarmist stuff you were talking about earlier.  I also note you have not yet answered my question re your personal observations of the timing of tree leaves turning over and therefore presume that this also comes from other websites.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

*

Offline jason2679302

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 36
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #41 on: 11/02/2007 05:55:26 »
The trees I see with my own eyes here in kentucky...esp a very good rain...the leaves all turn upside down about 10-20 mins before the storm...usually the wind has kicked up at this point and they're all blowing...I've seen this since I was a kid during every single storm...what I'm basically wondering does this happen because the tree is just made this way to do that...or is it something electrical in the storm and tree and leaf?

On water vapor...isn't water vapor the most trapping gas we have though.  Isn't the pollution consist of 97% natural water vapor, if so why wouldn't a small percent tip the scale way off, considering that it's already 97percent of the pollution?  Some people look at water vapor as a reflectant (global cooling effect) but doesn't it also trap all the heat that's already here trying to escape...such as at night...?  I think we are looking at the 911 incident all wrong...I think the increase in heat came from the ground up...a release.  Or was this incident based on heat coming in the atmosphere?? 

*

Offline dkv

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 299
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #42 on: 30/09/2007 19:07:20 »
Everyone is going mad.remove it .

*

lyner

  • Guest
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #43 on: 01/10/2007 10:34:16 »
Anthropomorphism is an easy thing to slip into. It is dangerous territory because it stops you thinking straight.
The energy from the Sun varies in the very long term but, for the middle part of its life (where it is at the moment) it is fairly constant
So the energy actually arriving on the Earth is also fairly constant. That might lead you to expect the  whole thing to establish and then to stay at the same temperature - like a steel ball in front of an electric fire.
However, it's more complex. There are many different interacting mechanisms which are involved in the movement of the energy once it hits the Earth. Even without any life processes, you would have an atmosphere (there would be a different one, of course) which would always be turbulent. You  would have enormous variations of temperature - seasons, tides , precipitation etc. etc.
BUT, because the total energy reaching the Earth is more or less constant, these variations would have to hover around an average, based on the energy in - energy out being balanced in the long term. You don't need a little  / big brain to be involved with the system to make this happen.
If you add life forms  to the system, you further multiply the possibilities for  variations. In the end, your variations will still be centred on a mean value.
One - just one- of the life forms on Earth is human. We are a further  'disruptive' influence and we may well drive the fluctuations out of the region that will support life  or, at least human existence.    Short term interests of a few influential people may well be causing this at the moment.
There is loads of evidence that we are entering a new phase of climate.
There is a lot less evidence (some correlation but that does not necessarily PROVE a causal relationship) that humans are responsible.
There is, I think,  little chance that  we can reverse the trend by our own actions.
We can't expect a GAIA to come along an dig us out.
We may be lucky.
We can at least try to do something - turn down the central heating - don't buy a new car or go abroad for your holiday and TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER NOW. (Joking about the last bit)
It will have to be a lot, lot worse before the majority of the Earth's population does anything about it - shame.

*

Offline BenV

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • 1503
    • View Profile
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #44 on: 01/10/2007 11:57:09 »
I would be very concerned about a book that claims that subconscious thought is created by one cell alone, and I personally may well have stopped reading right there.  With regards the earth as a whole having a subconscious - no, it doesn't.  The earth is not an organism, but it is an ecosystem, so changes in one aspect will elicit a change in another, just like localised changes in climate will elicit a response in trees, perhaps this is what you're thinking of as subconscious action?

*

lyner

  • Guest
DOES EARTH HAVE A SUB-CONSCIENCE??
« Reply #45 on: 01/10/2007 12:43:37 »
Jason -
Quote
On water vapor...isn't water vapor the most trapping gas we have though.
Water vapor 'traps' or absorbs infra red wavelengths - which are radiated from the Earth's surface. BUT droplets and vapor (clouds) reflect visible wavelengths - which carry the majority of the energy from the Sun.  Flying over clouds shows you just how much is reflected!
The temperature that the surface reaches is due to a combination of all effects. I have no doubt that, were the Earth covered in cloud, the surface temperature could end up a lot lower than it is now.
That would be an equally difficult situation for humans  to deal with.
Nothing is straightforward where  climate is concerned.