[Jolly (OP)]

 (Men are stupid you dont have to tell me)

And this is what you want for the leader of the free world?

Reality is a foreign concept for many of the followers. I would suggest you might be hanging around the wrong men. Unless of course some women need stupid men in their life to feel better about their self. In that case who better than Trump as a leader of men. Or is it drama queens being attracted to a drama king. Curious..

  that was actually a joke, which has an air of truth, ofcourse people are generally stupid, tho we all hate admitting it we all really know very little about reality.

Trump is following the teachings of Hitler. Burning books and not allowing the New York times is just the tip of the iceberg. Will he try to burn the internet when he perceives it as dangerous? History repeats itself. Information is Trumps enemy. Except for the followers of Hitler's ideals. Heil Trump.

  what on earth. Trump is not following the teachings of Hilter where do you get this idea?

Hitler vilified the Jewish peoples exciting the part of the brain that wants to blame others for their positions in life. Trump is following the same game plan as Hitler vilifying the Mexicans and those of the Muslim faith.

No he isnt, he is just trying to enforce the laws. Obama kicked out of America, more Mexicans than any president before him 2.5 million of them, Trump is going to try and build a wall to stop them comming in, in the first place- thatīs it.

Trump employs Mexicans in his business, he has Mexican friends, many Legal Mexicans living in America voted for Trump, because they didnt want the extra compertician from illegals in the work force. As for the "vilification" the Coyotes the criminal gang that runs the illegal immagration racket- is reported to rape about 80% of the women they smuggle- thatīs where Trumps rape comment comes from. 

They are not the cause of our problems in society.

Trump did not suggest that, that idea is being touted but that was not Trumps statement "stop the mexicans everything will be fine" Trump was simply arguing for better border controls, and for America jobs to go to Legal Americans not illegal immagrants. Nafta, T.T.P were a bigger issue then illegal immagration and he is tackeling them too. You are exzargerating to suggest what you have there. 

Robotics and science has created our ability to make more than we need without people making wages. The weak and those less able to compete in the rules of society are being left out in the cold. We are not recognizing the orthogonal measure this efficiency is creating.

Rubbish, Nike moved to Asia to pay less to the workers, the extra profits they pocketed- there was no reduction in the cost of trainers- just more profits for Nike. And that is the model for many companies, Wages is often one of the biggest expenses of production, many of the companies that moved to Asia did so simply to cut the cost of production, and keep that saving a profit. Some goods became cheeper but what does that matter when there is no work for people- that is what lead to massive credits being taken out, less and lower paid work and credit taking up the slack.

The companies make more Profit, the share prices go up, the stock market does well, the GDP goes up- but there are less jobs, less well paid jobs, with debt leading consumption. utterly unsustainable- these companies throw the American worker under the bus to gain as much profit as they could- If Trump does not help correct that, as he is trying to, and the business leaders do not learn to show some respect to the eccomony and itīs work force, itīs gonna get alot worse.   

Yes we need to reward innovation but also understand how this affects society with the new reality of excess. Measuring your contribution to society is extremely difficult. Measuring your destruction of society is emotionally more quantifiable.
I find the Mexicans are very hard working people in my experience and willing to take less from our society's excesses.

How can a politician blame robotics and efficiency for the problems that creates in society. They cannot so there has to be a scape goat. Currently it is Mexicans and the Muslim faith. Trump is as guilty of ignorance as the people who believe incorrectly he can cure society's problems by vilifying certain groups of people. Denying the press and news is the first step Hitler and all dictators take. Abusing and altering perception is necessary to trample on the rights of people.

You really need to learn to think for yourself ok. This īTrump is literally Hitler crapī is just that- Crap. Yet the people and organisations that are pumping out that Narrative and who are seeking to be "Abusing and altering perception" you are following no questions asked, these are not your ideas, these are not your words, yet here you are pumping out the same stuff I see continually stated in papers and stuff- Please do yourself a favour and think and speak for yourself.

Your claim that men are stupid, I am beginning to have some agreement with. Man does not learn from its mistakes of the past. Chose your leaders wisely. At least give them a sociological test to remove Hitler types. The leaders can be only as bad as the followers let them.   

Trump is nothing like Hitler.

[alancalverd]

  what on earth. Trump is not following the teachings of Hilter where do you get this idea?

From his second wife, who stated it in a TV interview.

The comparison between Sean Spicer's "alternative facts"  and Goebbels' "big lie"  is beyond coincidence.  You can tell a lot about a man by the company he chooses.

[GoC]

Jolly,

    Between the Democrats buying votes from the poor and the Republicans trying to create economic slavery you believe Trump will correct this in some fashion?

The problems are not the Mexicans or the Muslims. Trump just tapped into the psyche of American distrust of the unknown and the willingness to blame others for their position in life. Hitler did the same thing with the Jewish people. Do you recognize cycles? A person will rise to the situation.

 I trust science not emotions. Trump is an emotional junky.

Robotics and science has changed the nature of economics to be able to exclude people as less necessary for over production by efficiency. Our manufacturing infrastructure is changing by creating more poor and less middle class. An emotional junky will unlikely have the incite to correct our course. All forms of government eventually destroy themselves even capitalism. Communism destroys incentive capitalism eventually finds its funds in the pockets of the few. We need a structured government distribution of work rewarding innovation while keeping the body healthy.

Trump does not really show signs of trying to keep the body healthy. America has a drug cancer due to lack of engaging all its citizens. It is those we leave behind that will destroy us. We are not seeing the real threats just pushing full steam ahead into the storm.     

[Jolly (OP)]

  what on earth. Trump is not following the teachings of Hilter where do you get this idea?

From his second wife, who stated it in a TV interview.

The comparison between Sean Spicer's "alternative facts"  and Goebbels' "big lie"  is beyond coincidence.  You can tell a lot about a man by the company he chooses.

Thanks for jumping in there. Am I to understand that Trumps Ex wife is a Hitler expert of sorts?   

[Jolly (OP)]

Jolly,

    Between the Democrats buying votes from the poor and the Republicans trying to create economic slavery you believe Trump will correct this in some fashion?

I do not know, weīll see.

The problems are not the Mexicans or the Muslims. Trump just tapped into the psyche of American distrust of the unknown and the willingness to blame others for their position in life.

Oh my, how good they all have it, thats what Clinton was telling them, but not the realty is it. Shrinkng Middle class, loss of jobs and wages that have gone on since Regan really- as he got rid of a lot of the regulatons that prevented Wall street from over consolidaton. The rch are gettng seruosly richer and the poor serously poorer and thats not because of new technology.

Hitler did the same thing with the Jewish people. Do you recognize cycles? A person will rise to the situation.

if you want a discussion, itīs an idea to actually lsten to what the other person has said and answer their points rather then simply repeating yourself. As for Hitler compairson- Well Trump blamed the politcians for enrichng themsleves at the expense of the people- not the Mexicans. 

I trust science not emotions. Trump is an emotional junky.

and that is rediculas, you cannot seperate emotions from motivation, itīs a scientific delusion to think it possible. Better to seek a well rounded position where you have understood and embraced emotions, they are there even if you ignore them.

Robotics and science has changed the nature of economics to be able to exclude people as less necessary for over production by efficiency.

That is not what has lead to loss of jobs, factories moving to asia was as I stated before- in the interest of gaining more profit, if it was a simple technological issue the comapnies could have stayed in america and innovated- and they didnt did they!

Our manufacturing infrastructure is changing by creating more poor and less middle class.

No

An emotional junky will unlikely have the incite to correct our course. All forms of government eventually destroy themselves even capitalism. Communism destroys incentive capitalism eventually finds its funds in the pockets of the few. We need a structured government distribution of work rewarding innovation while keeping the body healthy.

Here we go with tenocracy and elitism again

Trump does not really show signs of trying to keep the body healthy. America has a drug cancer due to lack of engaging all its citizens.

Now itīs americas fault it hasnt engaged itīs citizens- not advances in technology, seem to be changing what you say.

 It is those we leave behind that will destroy us. We are not seeing the real threats just pushing full steam ahead into the storm.     

Trump has said he doesnt want to leave anyone behind, he got elected becuase that was his message.

[alancalverd]

Thanks for jumping in there. Am I to understand that Trumps Ex wife is a Hitler expert of sorts?   

No, a Trump expert.

[GoC]

Thanks for jumping in there. Am I to understand that Trumps Ex wife is a Hitler expert of sorts?   

No, a Trump expert.

LOL

Robotics and science has changed the nature of economics to be able to exclude people as less necessary for over production by efficiency.

That is not what has lead to loss of jobs, factories moving to asia was as I stated before- in the interest of gaining more profit, if it was a simple technological issue the comapnies could have stayed in america and innovated- and they didnt did they!

Our manufacturing infrastructure is changing by creating more poor and less middle class.

Quote from: GoC on 02/03/2017 11:56:23
Robotics and science has changed the nature of economics to be able to exclude people as less necessary for over production by efficiency.

That is not what has lead to loss of jobs, factories moving to asia was as I stated before- in the interest of gaining more profit, if it was a simple technological issue the comapnies could have stayed in america and innovated- and they didnt did they!

Quote from: GoC on 02/03/2017 11:56:23

Robotics and science has changed the nature of economics to be able to exclude people as less necessary for over production by efficiency.

They took the technology to Asia. And reaped the rewards of $1.50 per hour. Double dipped for profit. Your understanding must be blind in one eye

Quote from: GoC on 02/03/2017 11:56:23

An emotional junky will unlikely have the incite to correct our course. All forms of government eventually destroy themselves even capitalism. Communism destroys incentive capitalism eventually finds its funds in the pockets of the few. We need a structured government distribution of work rewarding innovation while keeping the body healthy.

Here we go with tenocracy and elitism again

The basic concept of society is for the good of all not just a few. Labeling in order to be prejudice to an idea is just a politicians buzz word. In order for a body to be healthy blood has to flow to all parts. If the brain hordes all of the blood the body dies. Your prejudice seems to be towards the brain getting all of the blood. I favor a healthy body yes. I believe in science over emotions to create and distribute the blood of the body. Power of emotions will not distribute the blood properly. Politicians have there own self interest. When a man get tired of money for existence a man seeks power. You seem to be blind in one eye about the nature of man.

[Jolly (OP)]

Thanks for jumping in there. Am I to understand that Trumps Ex wife is a Hitler expert of sorts?   

No, a Trump expert.

Yeah- NO!

[Jolly (OP)]

Thanks for jumping in there. Am I to understand that Trumps Ex wife is a Hitler expert of sorts?   

No, a Trump expert.

LOL

Robotics and science has changed the nature of economics to be able to exclude people as less necessary for over production by efficiency.

That is not what has lead to loss of jobs, factories moving to asia was as I stated before- in the interest of gaining more profit, if it was a simple technological issue the comapnies could have stayed in america and innovated- and they didnt did they!

Our manufacturing infrastructure is changing by creating more poor and less middle class.

Quote from: GoC on 02/03/2017 11:56:23
Robotics and science has changed the nature of economics to be able to exclude people as less necessary for over production by efficiency.

That is not what has lead to loss of jobs, factories moving to asia was as I stated before- in the interest of gaining more profit, if it was a simple technological issue the comapnies could have stayed in america and innovated- and they didnt did they!

Quote from: GoC on 02/03/2017 11:56:23

Robotics and science has changed the nature of economics to be able to exclude people as less necessary for over production by efficiency.

They took the technology to Asia. And reaped the rewards of $1.50 per hour. Double dipped for profit. Your understanding must be blind in one eye

Oh suddenly they doubled down on Profits, so itīs not just about new technology then- wow

Quote from: GoC on 02/03/2017 11:56:23

An emotional junky will unlikely have the incite to correct our course. All forms of government eventually destroy themselves even capitalism. Communism destroys incentive capitalism eventually finds its funds in the pockets of the few. We need a structured government distribution of work rewarding innovation while keeping the body healthy.

Here we go with tenocracy and elitism again

The basic concept of society is for the good of all not just a few. Labeling in order to be prejudice to an idea is just a politicians buzz word.

No, no. This is not "labeling", collectivist systems always turn tyranical

In order for a body to be healthy blood has to flow to all parts. If the brain hordes all of the blood the body dies. Your prejudice seems to be towards the brain getting all of the blood.

Actually it probably has more to do with the Brain killing half the body.

I favor a healthy body yes. I believe in science over emotions to create and distribute the blood of the body.

Which is impossible, man cannot rid himself of Emotion, it would be a delusion to think he had.

Power of emotions will not distribute the blood properly. Politicians have there own self interest. When a man get tired of money for existence a man seeks power. You seem to be blind in one eye about the nature of man.

Says the person who seems to forget that Scientists are men too. The USSR was a scientific society- do you know what happened there?

[GoC]

Says the person who seems to forget that Scientists are men too. The USSR was a scientific society- do you know what happened there?

If the press lies like you suggest how could anyone really know?

Quote from: GoC on 03/03/2017 11:50:06I favor a healthy body yes. I believe in science over emotions to create and distribute the blood of the body.

Which is impossible, man cannot rid himself of Emotion, it would be a delusion to think he had.

You definitely view the negative side of man as the dominate side.

Government looks at society and tries to run government top down. This way they have control. They become callous towards the weak and hungry. The ones left behind have drugs to fill their hopeless lives. There is a void in there psyche not being able to contribute to society. We feel better about ourselves by calling them lazy. Some of society cannot compete favorably in our society. It is up to society to help them compete. We can create an army of worker skills to fix the infrastructure of the US. All countries could do this. Don't have a job? Join the army core of engineering apprentice program. Need day care there is some in the core with that talent. Train and work in all aspects of building from houses to bridges. Incentivize increased skills to become the new trainers as the talent went into main stream free enterprise. 

You have to build self worth into those in your society or let the cancer destroy the body. Our politicians do not even recognize the true cancer.

I am afraid your savior Trump is missing the mark also.

I would use the scientific method to test my approach using pilot groups. Yes I have emotion and my strongest emotion is towards success. If I won a big lottery I would pull kids off the city streets and test my beliefs in people. Give me the most damaged and downtrodden to make my successes even greater. I could make them productive members of society with self respect as their drug of choice.

In one pilot group I would like to try in a desert, living underground and a solar society. Underground for temperature efficiency. The underground shaded by solar panels for the energy needs. There are many advantages to building underground.

I could really use those hard working Mexicans and those of the Muslim faith that Trump is trying to throw away.   

I would also like to use the Thorium nuclear process we are handing over to the Chinese. Its cheep and safe. Thorium is abundant all over the globe and two chemistry students can run the reaction. There is no waste. The half life is days and not thousands of years. The only reason the US went to plutonium is to sell the pellets for a big profit. Profits over safety and efficiency should land someone in jail. But top down pocket politics rule the land.

The scientific method if left alone would have chosen the safer inexhaustible approach. Very little weaponization issues with thorium either.

So you want is a politician over a scientist?

[Jolly (OP)]

Says the person who seems to forget that Scientists are men too. The USSR was a scientific society- do you know what happened there?

If the press lies like you suggest how could anyone really know?

Really, lie. Scientists are not people apparently, everyone. They are supermen- superior, ubermench,like the rantionalist Nazis, soo much better then your average emotional junky. What a sane beielf you have.
Itīs sad that you are soo il-informed about the socialist russian system, communsits are Atheists and they follow science, go do some research

Quote from: GoC on 03/03/2017 11:50:06I favor a healthy body yes. I believe in science over emotions to create and distribute the blood of the body.

Which is impossible, man cannot rid himself of Emotion, it would be a delusion to think he had.

You definitely view the negative side of man as the dominate side.

Emotion is not negative, it both posivie- love, compassion, hapiness,empathic. and negative hate or avarice and greed . no emotion leaves people utterly disconnected from themselves but probably even worse utterly un-empathic.   

If you do not understand your emotions youīll never understand yourself, and youīll be controlled by them and deusionally and maybe even arrogantly think you are free, and superior.

Government looks at society and tries to run government top down.

Depends on the government

This way they have control. They become callous towards the weak and hungry. The ones left behind have drugs to fill their hopeless lives. There is a void in there psyche not being able to contribute to society. We feel better about ourselves by calling them lazy.

Really you feel better- can you actually admit that? doesnt it dis-quaify you from the sanity of rationalism. The man feels something- maybe there is some hope for you.

"no no, dont feel anythin, be one with the calculator"

Some of society cannot compete favorably in our society. It is up to society to help them compete.

Favourably? The whole point of compertician is winners and losers, the hope being those with the most merit win. What you are suggesting is either hampering the wimmers so the losers can catch up, or maybe even getting rid of compertician completely.

We can create an army of worker skills to fix the infrastructure of the US. All countries could do this. Don't have a job? Join the army core of engineering apprentice program. Need day care there is some in the core with that talent. Train and work in all aspects of building from houses to bridges. Incentivize increased skills to become the new trainers as the talent went into main stream free enterprise. 

You have to build self worth into those in your society

Self worth in an emotional position.

or let the cancer destroy the body. Our politicians do not even recognize the true cancer.

I am afraid your savior Trump is missing the mark also.

I would use the scientific method to test my approach using pilot groups.

Will you kill the ones that dont work, and show you a fool?

Yes I have emotion and my strongest emotion is towards success. If I won a big lottery I would pull kids off the city streets and test my beliefs in people.

Typical, BEWARE this person will expersiment on people should he ever win some money. 

Hope you never do, youīll probably just end up in prison.

 Give me the most damaged and downtrodden to make my successes even greater.

Well at least you admit its really all about you. The fame, the money the POWER HA HA HA.

IF you do not care about people you really shouldnt be trying to help them, but then how could you care thats an emotional position?

I could make them productive members of society with self respect as their drug of choice.

Emotional junkies, you really do contradict yourself

In one pilot group I would like to try in a desert, living underground and a solar society. Underground for temperature efficiency. The underground shaded by solar panels for the energy needs. There are many advantages to building underground.

Well thats al very nice, what happens when the dictator dies?

I could really use those hard working Mexicans and those of the Muslim faith that Trump is trying to throw away.
   

You could

I would also like to use the Thorium nuclear process we are handing over to the Chinese. Its cheep and safe. Thorium is abundant all over the globe and two chemistry students can run the reaction. There is no waste. The half life is days and not thousands of years. The only reason the US went to plutonium is to sell the pellets for a big profit. Profits over safety and efficiency should land someone in jail. But top down pocket politics rule the land.

The scientific method if left alone would have chosen the safer inexhaustible approach. Very little weaponization issues with thorium either.

'Incredible the assumptions you make.

SCINCE IS;PURE LIKE THE SOCIETY I WIL CREATE

So you want is a politician over a scientist?

No what I would like to see is a society that is better able to repsond to the concerns and needs of the population, democracy cetainly fulfills that role to a degree, the market does also, and Iīm sure there are other mecanism by which that could happen also.

[Jolly (OP)]

No what I would like to see is a society that is better able to repsond to the concerns and needs of the population, democracy cetainly fulfills that role to a degree, the market does also, and Iīm sure there are other mecanism by which that could happen also.

Iīll add that Society at times has to adapt to certain realities, but also think about the best way to do so, Society should have an awareness of what it happening inside it, mainly because ignorence of issues generally could be danderous for future sustencion, and also cause serious problems in the present or near future.

So I would argue that the democratic model I suggest in this thread could fulfill those requirements, by including as many as possible in the democratic disscussion, you would hopefully also see as a result better laws, issues not igniored, and more of the societies brian engaged in the activities government is for. 

[GoC]

See your starting to be more idealistic already.

[Jolly (OP)]

See your starting to be more idealistic already.

How so?

[zx16]

I think we'd be better off, if we were governed by women,. Because women don't start wars. Wars are always started by men.

[Jolly (OP)]

I think we'd be better off, if we were governed by women,. Because women don't start wars. Wars are always started by men.

Its a nice idea but an assumption

"New York University scholars Oeindrila Dube and S.P. Harish analyzed 28 European queenly reigns from 1480 to 1913 and found a 27 percent increase in wars when a queen was in power, as compared to the reign of a king."
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/01/european-queens-waged-more-wars-than-kings.html

[alancalverd]

Thatcher, Meir, Bandarinaike, Indira Ghandi....in modern times it seems that, proportionately, women in presidential or prime minsterial positions are more likely to start wars, execute their rivals or preside over internal massacres than men. There just happens to be fewer women with the opportunity to do so. The line of warmongering queens stretches back via Victoria and Elizabeth I to Boudicca.

[GoC]

Jolly

   I can understand Alan using the scientific method of data mining but You surprised me by your use of data stats.

[zx16]

Thatcher, Meir, Bandarinaike, Indira Ghandi....in modern times it seems that, proportionately, women in presidential or prime minsterial positions are more likely to start wars, execute their rivals or preside over internal massacres than men. There just happens to be fewer women with the opportunity to do so. The line of warmongering queens stretches back via Victoria and Elizabeth I to Boudicca.

Alan. that is mere sophistry.  Wars have always been started and  enthusiastically conducted by men.  Not women. 

[Jolly2]

Jolly

   I can understand Alan using the scientific method of data mining but You surprised me by your use of data stats.

Why?