Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12950 on: 25/04/2011 20:37:25 »
CC, Brain O is dry, NE is not..

Oh yeah i know the difference, BO equals dreams without any liquids but for me still equals pois,
the first time it happend i was dumbfounded, i thought i escaped a close one when i felt around and i was good but then comes my favorite symptoms.
if it is no BO am succumbing to, i am succumbing to NE, that is why i used BO/NE



This would be an intersting area to persue, because it's more clear cut than light to partial "O"s, whether they be NEs or masturbating just up to.

In this case[BOs], it would first have to be determined if there is any fluid movement, and if so at what level and to what extent.

As in Silodosin, for instance, no fulid leaves the body (in some cases), and if I understand it correctly, in some cases there's not even dribble. Yet the semen exists and is retained. I think hurray indicated that in those cases where there was not pre-C at all, he had no POIS, so a similar situation.

So your case, and I'm sure others, have symptoms even without the least of obvious fluid movement. So what's going on? Is the pituitary secreting something anyways, or some other secretion? Why does this effect you and not me for instance?

On the other forum, I'd like to create work groups to attack particular tasks such as these? It seems that some of the questions are impossible to answer...... are they? Maybe it would take a year, or two. How long does desensitization take again?

The work groups wouldn't be chats! They'd be task oriented work-groups. Do we have it in us. Even I (who would like to give it a try) am not sure. But we HAVE done a lot without much focus.



I like the idea of work groups, a good start will be what horizon is trying to achieve an home based immunoterapy system.

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Offline Defsync

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12951 on: 26/04/2011 00:16:53 »
I wanted to mention this for people who have POIS and still want to have a pretty active sex life.

Now I have a girlfriend (woot!) and because of the development of my pubococcygeus  myscle from practicing my abstinence technique for so long, we can enjoy quite a bit of intimacy without me having to orgasm. Suffice it to say you can more then please a woman and by clenching your pubococcygeus  muscle as you are doing so, or if you feel like you are going to orgasm, still have a pretty good sex life =)

Lord knows I try, but after 3 wks.... hair trigger!

How can you exercise the muscle. Masturbating just up to.... and often? Or would that make it worse?



when you are sitting, just clench the muscle (its the one you clench to stop urine flow when yer peeing) clench it as many times as you want, like any other muscle, the more you exercise it the stronger it gets

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12952 on: 26/04/2011 02:17:28 »

CC, Brain O is dry, NE is not..


Oh yeah i know the difference, BO equals dreams without any liquids but for me still equals pois,
the first time it happend i was dumbfounded, i thought i escaped a close one when i felt around and i was good but then comes my favorite symptoms.
if it is no BO am succumbing to, i am succumbing to NE, that is why i used BO/NE


So I guess the trick is to avoid BO/NErs?

<ducking!>


That will require pulling some "inception - movie" type moves (impossible).
what does that ducking thing mean


When someone tells a dumb joke or an offensive joke, "ducking" means (humorously) trying to escape a retaliatory slap or worse. [:)]

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Offline eur79m

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12953 on: 26/04/2011 02:24:37 »
Dear All,

I am a 31 year old male and potentially suffering of the same issue as you are. I am however not sure if this is the case or if I am observing several unrelated medical conditions, since I did not find some of the current symptoms I am experiencing mentioned anywhere in regards to POIS. But let's start at the beginning...

Some time during late high school / early study time I realized that I was extremely prone to throat infections following sex / masturbation. I felt the lymph nodes on the side of my neck, my groin and especially my tonsils swell right away. Often (especially after repeated sex / masturbation) my tonsils would become infected resulting in a full blown throat infection, etc. It was annoying but I could handle it with the usual anti soar throat pills, throat disinfectant and primarily not 'overdoing it'. When I was around 21 I had a tonsillectomy (removal of tonsils) which considerably helped reduce the symptoms (catching an infection). Still I could feel the swelling of my outer lymph nodes and the inner throat tissue where my tonsils once were, it was just easier to avoid a full blown infection. I felt that this was probably not 'normal' and that I was just treating symptoms while something else seemed to be wrong. I had however never heard of any such connection, had checked that I had no STDs, and Google told me that one cannot be allergic to his own semen (I did find that in rare cases girls could actually be allergic to sperm). I was thus hesitant to contact a doc, fearing being classified as a hypochondriac with rather mental problems. Especially following the tonsillectomy this wasn't really a big issue in my life and I felt I could arrange myself with it. I still had regular throat infections, which often turned into dry coughs that stayed for weeks. I always had the feeling that these coughs were actually not a respiratory problem but my body reacting to some inner stimulant released after sex. Single after-sex coughs have almost become a 'reflex' by now... This causality is however only a feeling, nothing I think I can ever prove or verify.

Looking back I would say after sex I also experienced tiredness, lethargy, a depressed like state, and a general 'fuzzyness' that made especially social interactions more difficult. Since this was however the only way I knew it, it is very difficult to say for me today if I indeed experienced these mental symptoms in a light form or if it was nothing more than the usual post-orgasmic exhaustion (what I definitely believed at the time, but am questioning today). Until last year I just had the feeling that sex somehow had negative effects on my immune system (lymph node swelling/tonsils) and respiratory system (cough stimulus). If it would would have stayed like this I would have further ignored and arranged myself with it.

In June last year I was however hit by another condition that might be completely unrelated but somehow I don't quite believe in coincidences in this case. My right testicle started hurting and I felt typical flu-like symptoms, sweating, headaches, etc. An Urologist did an ultra-sound and told me I had a small spermatocele and might have twisted something and it would get better by itself. Indeed, some waiting, doing nothing, cooling with ice eventually helped and it got better... but it never got 'well' again. There was always some residual pain in my testicle and after ejaculation it would actually get worse including severe flu-like symptoms again. Eventually the Urologist arranged a microbiological analysis of my semen and 'Gardnerella vaginalis' were found. A bacterium found in the vaginal flora of 50% of women, not classified a STD. I took several antibiotics, bacteria should be gone but no change in my condition. At that time I also started to notice a constantly 'foggy' condition like I was constantly drugged, sometimes strong headaches like I normally never have. I thought this might be antibiotic related but it turned out it was not. Pain in my right testicle was sometimes better, sometimes worse, same for my foggy condition and headaches, but never did I feel well again.

I had my testicle checked again in one of the best European Urological clinics, a spermatocele was ruled out, potentially a small hydatid that might have got twisted. This would have however not explained my general state of health, headaches, 'foogy feeling' etc... Reasonable assumption by the doc was 'stress related symptoms'. I did not believe this but since there was no explanation for my general constitution (beside the testicle pain) I decided my best bet would be to have have the hydatid surgically removed, in the hope of leaving both the testicle pain as well as my mental symptoms behind, since both entered my life at about the same time, even though no medical connection between both could be established. Surgery went well, some hydatid removed, biopsy of the removed tissue was normal. And believe it or not, the same day I woke up from surgery (I had no post-surgical pain killers) I felt so good like I had not felt the last half year before! Of course my scrotum was slightly hurting and judging if my testicle pain was gone would take some weeks, but general health wise I felt just great. A completely clear mind, no headaches, no fog, only then I realized that the complete last half year I did not have one moment like this. The only drug I was on was the antibiotic bactrim/cotrim. It lasted for two days... The second day I woke up, feeling great, and decided to test if everything was still working in the lower department, as I was told by the doc that theoretically I would be able to have sex right away. Everything worked just fine but you can guess what comes next... after orgasm it hit me like a bummer right away, headaches, dizziness, fogginess, all back again. This was in January, since then I did not have one day where I would say that I have felt 'normal'.

Mental symptoms were back as before, getting worse after sex but never completely subsiding. It turned out my testicle pain had changed, before there was one very sensitive/painful spot that I would locate at the epididymis, this now felt better. Still my right testicle is hurting somehow, the pain is just more difficult to localize. I have not read anything similar when browsing through the POIS forum but I decided to post here since I would describe my general condition very much like most of you do after sex. I collected some of your descriptions that fit my condition:

- lethargy/drowsy
- "i feel like sleeping"
- severe fatigue
- dizziness
- weaker immune system : easily catch a cold...
- Brain fog
- Exhaustion (physically and mentally)
- depression, foggy cognition
- tiredness
- a headache that is very specific, not like anything else you might now
- Upon waking the next day I feel shattered, bereft of any energy, and simply getting up is quite difficult. It will often take several days before I feel my energy return (fully.)
- flu-like symptoms including a sore throat, sweating, extreme fatigue and (eye irritation) after sex
- 'foggy head syndrome' (impaired cognition)

These symptoms, especially the headaches, get better after a day or two, but never to a state where I would say I feel good/normal again. Slight testicle pain is constant, also getting worse after sex. If I had to describe my general state some days after orgasm I would say I feel like 'constantly slightly drugged' (not in a good way). Just as a background, I would consider myself (otherwise) fit and healthy, no (prior) addictions, not even cigarets, moderate alcohol use, love sports, no asthma or any known allergies to anything. I have reduced my sport/fitness to basically nothing since June last year since headaches/pressure in my head just do not help and symptoms rather get worse.

I have been postponing a doc appointment now for months, simply because I don't know where to go and how to be taken seriously that the above list of symptoms are not just stress induced/psychosomatic. It can't go on like this and obviously I hope to find a remedy...

Feedback on my following questions would be very much appreciated:
- Do you believe my case is POIS related?
- Since I did not manage to read through the whole 537 previous pages, did anybody in this group ever experience similar testicle pain?
- Does anybody else experience this constant 'brain lined with wadding' feeling that does not revert to completely normal after a couple of days?
- What doc to contact? Urologist? General Practitioner? University Hospital? What should I try and what not?

Thank you for bearing with me! :-)

Very much looking forward to what you think about all the above...

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Offline apostate801

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12954 on: 26/04/2011 03:19:14 »
Sadly that sounds like POIS to me.  I'm experiencing a good bout now.

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Offline noob

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12955 on: 26/04/2011 16:17:20 »
I used to masturbate at the computer in a C-shaped position and had post orgasmic illness symptons pretty much like described here. It healed pretty fast when I changed to masturbating in a straight _ shaped position on my back on the bed, best results came without any pillow and a nicely hard mattress.

Actually this only helped because I did not ejaculate much in the bed (no fapping material).

I have now managed to fap at the computer without pois too by simply eating more.

The problem for me was being too skinny,way underweight, and not eating much. It has also been discussed here. http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=428600

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Offline Willem

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12956 on: 26/04/2011 20:59:14 »
Welcome eur79m! Sounds like POIS to me too.  Never had the testicular pain, but the swollen lymph nodes, the mouth and throat soreness, brain fog, difficulty with social interactions all check out in my opinion. 

It seems like most of us have a time period (5 to 9 days) after O where symptoms clear up, maybe not all the way, but a dramatic difference.  Have you noticed that?  For me it's about 8 days. 

I'm 32 and have had the same exact thoughts about the doc, I've gone several times, but asked "what's the point".  Now that we have the research papers by Dr. Waldinger, it's easier to explain things to a Dr. and get a bit more R-E-S-P-E-C-T (we can share these with you if you'd like).

Anyway, sorry to hear that exercise doesn't help.  It certainly helps for me as long as I don't over do it. 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12957 on: 26/04/2011 21:34:31 »




eur79m, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

The Learning Channel (TLC) upcoming feature TV presentation on POIS, featuring our member here at this forum, "Animus". They're planning to air it on May 22, 10pm Eastern Standard time. Animus will keep us informed of any changes.

Our POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

The POIS Information Website is home to the famous POIS Forum Compendium, written by "Pyropeach", and contains theories already discussed here and treatments that have both worked and failed.

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

Our new POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat


* Most recent POIS Research Studies, 2011 *

If you will send Prof. dr. Waldinger an e-mail, stating that you have read his message on the Forum, at http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg340138#msg340138 and that you are willing to fill in a questionnaire, he will send you the copies of both 2011 research articles by return through email. At a later date, he will send you the questionnaire which, after having filled in, you should send him back by e-mail.
His email:
prof.dr.waldinger.pois@gmail.com

Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger's website:
http://www.post-orgasmic-illness-syndrome.com/en/index.html


First POIS Research Study, 2002

We have a copy of the first formal medical investigation on POIS by Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger,MD,PhD, and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

  
Recent POIS Research Study, 2010

CASE REPORT
Postorgasm Illness Syndrome - A Spectrum of Illnesses
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg316781#msg316781


British Medical Journal Case Report, 2010

Case study by Dr. Selwyn Dexter of a patient with a headache-featured POIS symptom treated with progesterone/norethisterone.
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2010/bcr.10.2009.2359.short?rss=1


There are a couple of ways to get any or all of the above 3 studies: (1) if you want a PDF copy, send me a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and I'll send you back the PDF.

Or, if you prefer, (2) I can simply reply with a Private Message (no regular email needed) and provide you with a simple text version embedded in your PM.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapeutic community. All of this information can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT 'ALL IN OUR HEADS'! "

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum, which has already been referenced in respectable sources such as the Journal of Sexual Medicine (Dr. Waldinger's study), British Medical Journal and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For over 4 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 200 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, research on an additional 200 sufferers elsewhere on the internet, plus over 1,000,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!








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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12958 on: 26/04/2011 21:38:53 »





eur79m, this post will help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: more than 4 years' worth of posts (over  10,000 posts!) from 200+ Forum members, and an additional 200 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
nocturnal emission POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 740 results came up for "nocturnal emission" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.






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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12959 on: 27/04/2011 00:30:14 »
I'm wondering if anyone here has tried using Propecia (Finasteride) as a male contraceptive?  I got a prescription from my doc, but he neglected to mention that almost all insurances don't cover it.  I'd have to pay $90+ for a month's supply, so I didn't get it.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12960 on: 27/04/2011 01:00:04 »
Amazing to learn that sperm has nothing to do with my POIS!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12961 on: 27/04/2011 01:07:19 »
I had a long talk with the manufacturer of my testosterone patches.

They said that they never heard of my type of treatment killing off sperm - though it's not impossible.

They also said since I started with low testosterone, it's possible I wasn't producing sperm either.

Too bad I'll never know the effect of testosterone on my sperm production.

For younger folks, it does seem like - for whatever reason - sperm production can be re-started (I'm not in the market any more for kids. [:)] ) 

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12962 on: 27/04/2011 03:17:48 »
B_Jim, I noticed in your summary of all POIS cases that after number 247 you switch back to the 100's and begin at 148 and continue until ending at 155. This is a typo, right?
« Last Edit: 27/04/2011 03:35:25 by Vincent Marcus »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12963 on: 27/04/2011 03:56:29 »
Demo, did that sweet potato have any effect?
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12964 on: 27/04/2011 12:20:54 »
Amazing to learn that sperm has nothing to do with my POIS!

WHAT?
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12965 on: 27/04/2011 16:49:17 »
Yes, I have no sperm.

Yes, I do have POIS.

 [:)]

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12966 on: 27/04/2011 18:56:08 »
Yes, I have no sperm.

Yes, I do have POIS.

 [:)]

You have no sperm and your POIS is 20% of what it was before starting testosterone.
What else do you know to be so sure that sperm has nothing to do with you POIS?
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12967 on: 27/04/2011 22:44:44 »
Yes, I have no sperm.

Yes, I do have POIS.

 [:)]

You have no sperm and your POIS is 20% of what it was before starting testosterone.
What else do you know to be so sure that sperm has nothing to do with you POIS?


That's a good point...

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12968 on: 27/04/2011 22:46:58 »

Yes, I have no sperm.

Yes, I do have POIS.

 [:)]


You have no sperm and your POIS is 20% of what it was before starting testosterone.
What else do you know to be so sure that sperm has nothing to do with you POIS?




Demo, even though your doctor said you have no sperm, try and see if you can get an actual count(number).  No sperm may just mean you barely have any sperm compared to a regular male.


OK, Laurac, you asked for it! [:)] Directly from The Lab:

Sperm Concentration         0.00000  mill/mL
         Total Sperm                    million
Total motile sperm             0.0000   million
Total progressive                       million

Ejaculate volume                 4.80    mL


I have more data if you want (seminal pH, sperm motility, etc.)


yeah, demo your doctor was not joking when he said you don't have any sperm.  I hope the symptoms of increase libido and sleepiness are not from the P/T combo, or if they are that they go away.  I am not sure if those numbers are really accurate down to 10 sperm/ml, but that's how accurate the test say it is.  How much relief do you think you are getting from the T alone if you were not taking the adderall with it.

I do not remember if I asked you this before but do you take Lipitor or any Statins for high cholesterol/LDL.

Also, you will not have to worry about impregnating any of Charlies goddesses with a sperm count like that. 


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12969 on: 27/04/2011 22:51:35 »
Dave, I'm  not being sarcastic, but what other evidence do I really need now to conclude that  "Sperm has nothing to do with my POIS"?

Semen, of course, is still a possibility for me (though I'm skeptical of that).

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12970 on: 27/04/2011 23:27:42 »
I'll have important test results very soon on the specific IgE antibodies to seminal plasma proteins, which is seen in women with seminal plasma hypersensitivity.

For the last 2.5 months I've worked with Dr. Bernstein and the University of Cincinnati Allergy Laboratory.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12971 on: 28/04/2011 00:02:48 »
Teriffic news, Limejuice!!

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12972 on: 28/04/2011 00:31:23 »
Dave, I'm  not being sarcastic, but what other evidence do I really need now to conclude that  "Sperm has nothing to do with my POIS"?

Semen, of course, is still a possibility for me (though I'm skeptical of that).

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a smart a.s either, although it may sound like it, please don't take it as a lack of respect!

Unfortunately you don't have a sperm count from before you started your "T". You say your "T" saved your life! So it has been critical in your betterment.

MAYBE you didn't have sperm before you started the "T", but since you've got two kids, you had sperm at one point, and you've had POIS for 30 yrs!

MAYBE the TRT stopped your sperm and is the principal reason your POIS dimished.

Yes, you still have POIS, and no sperm, but considering the other evidence we still can't rule out sperm as having NO effect over your POIS.

There's a high possibility (in my opinion) that Lauracostis is right, in which case it could be much more sure that sperm has no influence over your POIS.

But as I see it right now, I don't think you can rule out sperm as having some influence. And of course we are talking about your case, in any case.

I think this is an important point, because it has an influence over what others are going to do here. Everything we do here has an influence over what others are going to do.

Every seemingly failed test leads everyone to think that the tested option is OUT, because we jump to conclusions on limited data or a limited number of test cases.

So there, I said it. Basically we can't say one way or the other. I guess we can only say that testosterone helped you, which is probably what matters most. We just need to know why!
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12973 on: 28/04/2011 00:33:54 »
I'll have important test results very soon on the specific IgE antibodies to seminal plasma proteins, which is seen in women with seminal plasma hypersensitivity.

For the last 2.5 months I've worked with Dr. Bernstein and the University of Cincinnati Allergy Laboratory.


Does seminal plasma protiens mean "no sperm"? That would be a very cool test!
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12974 on: 28/04/2011 01:22:00 »
Yes, seminal plasma is semen. Sent from Blackberry.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12975 on: 28/04/2011 01:46:44 »
Vincent Marcus :thanks !

No problem, B_Jim.
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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12976 on: 28/04/2011 02:15:48 »

Dave, I'm  not being sarcastic, but what other evidence do I really need now to conclude that  "Sperm has nothing to do with my POIS"?

Semen, of course, is still a possibility for me (though I'm skeptical of that).


Sorry, I'm not trying to be a smart a.s either, although it may sound like it, please don't take it as a lack of respect!

Unfortunately you don't have a sperm count from before you started your "T". You say your "T" saved your life! So it has been critical in your betterment.

MAYBE you didn't have sperm before you started the "T", but since you've got two kids, you had sperm at one point, and you've had POIS for 30 yrs!

MAYBE the TRT stopped your sperm and is the principal reason your POIS dimished.

Yes, you still have POIS, and no sperm, but considering the other evidence we still can't rule out sperm as having NO effect over your POIS.

There's a high possibility (in my opinion) that Lauracostis is right, in which case it could be much more sure that sperm has no influence over your POIS.

But as I see it right now, I don't think you can rule out sperm as having some influence. And of course we are talking about your case, in any case.

I think this is an important point, because it has an influence over what others are going to do here. Everything we do here has an influence over what others are going to do.

Every seemingly failed test leads everyone to think that the tested option is OUT, because we jump to conclusions on limited data or a limited number of test cases.

So there, I said it. Basically we can't say one way or the other. I guess we can only say that testosterone helped you, which is probably what matters most. We just need to know why!


I don't take what you say as critical of me at all. The reason I continue this dialogue with great interest is the same as it is for you: what can we learn from my case that can benefit POIS and other sufferers?

Perhaps this is oversimplifying, but I think you would agree: today, right now, sperm is not affecting my POIS. Forget the past.

Do you agree with that statement?

SOMETHING - again, only TODAY  - is causing my POIS. And it CAN'T be sperm! (I have Zero Sperm Count). Today.

My original simple posting about my "amazement" at no-sperm reflected my puzzlement over:  WHAT is causing my POIS today???


Amazing to learn that sperm has nothing to do with my POIS! edit - maybe I should have added 'today' ?


For now, just for now, can we leave out the past and take it up again in another installment?

I'd like to see if we differ about right here and now.

Thanks for continuing.

« Last Edit: 28/04/2011 06:07:59 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12977 on: 28/04/2011 04:05:42 »

Yes, seminal plasma is semen. Sent from Blackberry.


Semen is sent from Blackberry????  [::)] [:o] [;D] [:D] [???]

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Offline Animus

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12978 on: 28/04/2011 05:33:36 »

Dave, I'm  not being sarcastic, but what other evidence do I really need now to conclude that  "Sperm has nothing to do with my POIS"?

Semen, of course, is still a possibility for me (though I'm skeptical of that).


Sorry, I'm not trying to be a smart a.s either, although it may sound like it, please don't take it as a lack of respect!

Unfortunately you don't have a sperm count from before you started your "T". You say your "T" saved your life! So it has been critical in your betterment.

MAYBE you didn't have sperm before you started the "T", but since you've got two kids, you had sperm at one point, and you've had POIS for 30 yrs!

MAYBE the TRT stopped your sperm and is the principal reason your POIS dimished.

Yes, you still have POIS, and no sperm, but considering the other evidence we still can't rule out sperm as having NO effect over your POIS.

There's a high possibility (in my opinion) that Lauracostis is right, in which case it could be much more sure that sperm has no influence over your POIS.

But as I see it right now, I don't think you can rule out sperm as having some influence. And of course we are talking about your case, in any case.

I think this is an important point, because it has an influence over what others are going to do here. Everything we do here has an influence over what others are going to do.

Every seemingly failed test leads everyone to think that the tested option is OUT, because we jump to conclusions on limited data or a limited number of test cases.

So there, I said it. Basically we can't say one way or the other. I guess we can only say that testosterone helped you, which is probably what matters most. We just need to know why!


I don't take what you say as critical of me at all. The reason I continue this dialogue with great interest is the same  for me as it is for you: what can we learn from my case that can benefit POIS and other sufferers?

Perhaps this is oversimplifying, but I think you would agree: today, right now, sperm is not affecting my POIS. Forget the past.

Do you agree with that statement?

SOMETHING - again, only TODAY  - is causing my POIS. And it CAN'T be sperm! (I have Zero Sperm Count). Today.

My original simple posting about my "amazement" at no-sperm reflected my puzzlement over:  WHAT is causing my POIS today???


Amazing to learn that sperm has nothing to do with my POIS! edit - maybe I should have added 'today' ?


For now, just for now, can we leave out the past and take it up again in another installment?

I'd like to see if we differ about right here and now.

Thanks for continuing.



Just as another Guinea pig here, with a similar story...
I was surprised to find out that I still had POIS after my oriechtomy, which left me unable to produce sperm. But, I think stopping my sperm production helped, it got rid of about maybe 20% of my symptoms. It was a significant improvement. Without getting into listing which actual symptoms went away, and which persisted, for which I would need to delve into my notes.
« Last Edit: 28/04/2011 05:41:09 by Animus »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12979 on: 28/04/2011 06:04:26 »
Animus, thanks for contributing to The Great Sperm Mystery! [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12980 on: 28/04/2011 06:19:43 »

Animus, I spoke to Prof. dr. Waldinger today, and he is very excited about watching your starring role in The Learning Channel May 22 TV Show on POIS.

If you can obtain a copy for him, I'll be happy to reimburse the cost. Wait for the mailing address from me as to where he'd like it sent. Thanks!

I assume you have hired an Agent and will be doing a Publicity Tour soon. Maybe you can replace Charlie Sheen.......whoops, getting offtopic now.....

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12981 on: 28/04/2011 06:24:08 »

Demo, did that sweet potato have any [POIS] effect?


No, but it was delicious!  [:)]

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12982 on: 28/04/2011 08:24:22 »
I'll have important test results very soon on the specific IgE antibodies to seminal plasma proteins, which is seen in women with seminal plasma hypersensitivity.

For the last 2.5 months I've worked with Dr. Bernstein and the University of Cincinnati Allergy Laboratory.


The results might find a place in the compendium, I defiantly look forward to seeing them.

Something I wanted to bring up before is my somewhat effective use of Chinese medicine.  While in China, the Chinese doctor told me my kidneys are weak and recommended I drink a cup of the following medicine twice a day.  10g cinnamon bark, 10g dried ginger, 10g fresh ginger, and 8 dried dates boiled in a pot until half the water evaporates.  After drinking this for a few months now, I have noticed more mental and physical energy that help compensate for the brain fog, anxiety, and overall fatigue. 

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12983 on: 28/04/2011 11:59:27 »
I'll have important test results very soon on the specific IgE antibodies to seminal plasma proteins, which is seen in women with seminal plasma hypersensitivity.

For the last 2.5 months I've worked with Dr. Bernstein and the University of Cincinnati Allergy Laboratory.


The results might find a place in the compendium, I defiantly look forward to seeing them.

Something I wanted to bring up before is my somewhat effective use of Chinese medicine.  While in China, the Chinese doctor told me my kidneys are weak and recommended I drink a cup of the following medicine twice a day.  10g cinnamon bark, 10g dried ginger, 10g fresh ginger, and 8 dried dates boiled in a pot until half the water evaporates.  After drinking this for a few months now, I have noticed more mental and physical energy that help compensate for the brain fog, anxiety, and overall fatigue. 

Pyro, with your permission, I'd like to copy this to the other forum. We've got a special place for successful remedies.

BTW I will also be including a reference to your compendium in our WEB cover page.

Thx.

« Last Edit: 28/04/2011 12:01:07 by daveman »
How does Murphey do it??

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12984 on: 28/04/2011 12:24:45 »

Amazing to learn that sperm has nothing to do with my POIS! edit - maybe I should have added 'today' ?




For now, just for now, can we leave out the past and take it up again in another installment?

I'd like to see if we differ about right here and now.

Thanks for continuing.



Absolutely agreed that the saga is not complete and that the last secret needs to be revealed.
There's a ton of information buried in your case, just some of which has and is coming to the surface. THE PAST CANNOT BE DISCOUNTED however, I guess that is what I was afraid of, and coming to a conclusion that sperm has/had nothing to do with your POIS.

As I said, and I think we agree, that it may be possible that sperm didn't have anything to do with your POIS, but we don't know. It does seem sure that sperm doesn't have anything to do with your POIS NOW, obviously!

Although it might sound like it, whether sperm had or had not any effect over your POIS is much less important to me than getting to the truth.

We need more tests of the t/p method, with all the associated controls!
We need more tests of Silodosin, and in combination with results of the semen protien tests, we might, just might start to understand a bit of what's going on!

We probably should pursue some of the ideas presented in the report your endo liked..... who was that again. I'll have to dig around and find the report and read it!!

And THEN we need to find more in depth tests that can elucidate Lauracostis' hypothesis.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12985 on: 28/04/2011 16:40:33 »
I'll have important test results very soon on the specific IgE antibodies to seminal plasma proteins, which is seen in women with seminal plasma hypersensitivity.

For the last 2.5 months I've worked with Dr. Bernstein and the University of Cincinnati Allergy Laboratory.


The results might find a place in the compendium, I defiantly look forward to seeing them.

Something I wanted to bring up before is my somewhat effective use of Chinese medicine.  While in China, the Chinese doctor told me my kidneys are weak and recommended I drink a cup of the following medicine twice a day.  10g cinnamon bark, 10g dried ginger, 10g fresh ginger, and 8 dried dates boiled in a pot until half the water evaporates.  After drinking this for a few months now, I have noticed more mental and physical energy that help compensate for the brain fog, anxiety, and overall fatigue. 

Pyro, with your permission, I'd like to copy this to the other forum. We've got a special place for successful remedies.

BTW I will also be including a reference to your compendium in our WEB cover page.

Thx.



Permission granted daveman :)  I wonder if it'd be a good idea to put a compendium suggestion section on the other forum?  With the complexity of the new forum, I think its even more necessary to have a compendium (which is basically the website) that gives a comprehensive summary/overview of everything going on and highlights important/prominent revaluations amongst all the discussions (I guess kind of like what reddit does on the internet).

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12986 on: 28/04/2011 17:01:55 »
For you pyro, whatever you'd like to see!!!

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12987 on: 28/04/2011 17:12:07 »

I'll have important test results very soon...


I defiantly look forward to seeing them.


Forgive me, I couldn't stop myself! [;D]

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12988 on: 28/04/2011 17:15:07 »
I think someone may have mentioned this but for the POIS tv show animus will be on, if possible it would be cool if someone could record it and put it on youtube of course with animus's permission. I myself don't have the equipment to do so.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12989 on: 28/04/2011 17:21:36 »

Amazing to learn that sperm has nothing to do with my POIS! edit - maybe I should have added 'today' ?


For now, just for now, can we leave out the past and take it up again in another installment?

I'd like to see if we differ about right here and now.



...THE PAST CANNOT BE DISCOUNTED...

emphasis mine - demo


OK, I see the problem.

You and I are in synch.

My only concern is that we simplify this.

If I am getting confused about my own case, others must be even worse off!

Dave, I am simply trying to break this down into more manageable bits of information.

Starting with the present.

I'd like to understand THAT first before moving on to the multiple scenarios that you (and Lauracostis, and others) elucidate so well.

This might not be the way you think of it, but I am still back to my FIRST question (not to you, just in general)...

"WHAT is causing my POIS today?" (Hint: it is NOT sperm [;D])

And - again, just to MY way of thinking - once that question is addressed, that's just the way MY little brain works...THEN I can move on to the other more complex, interactive factors that you suggest.

Perhaps some others reading this might also think in a more primitive way like I do. [:)]

« Last Edit: 28/04/2011 17:37:42 by demografx »

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12990 on: 28/04/2011 17:34:45 »
"WHAT is causing my POIS today?"

And - again, just to MY way of thinking - once that question is addressed, that's just the way MY little brain works...I can move on to the other more complex, interactive factors that you suggest.

Perhaps others think in a primitive way like I do. [:)]

It would be wonderful if an answer would just appear for a question upon asking it!

You see? To answer your question, we can look for others who have answered it.... must be millions out there?

Or we can keep on asking smaller questions that we can answer. Which is what I suggest with the "more complex, interactive factors" that I mentioned. Hey it's a bummer, and it's gone beyond easy... is that going to stop us?

I don't know, how else do you propose we resolve your primary question?

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12991 on: 28/04/2011 17:36:37 »
I think someone may have mentioned this but for the POIS tv show animus will be on, if possible it would be cool if someone could record it and put it on youtube of course with animus's permission. I myself don't have the equipment to do so.

Youtube has a limit of 1GB and/or 10 min or something like that... might be a problem, unless we do an extract.
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12992 on: 28/04/2011 17:41:41 »

how...do you propose we resolve your primary question?


Dave, I don't think there is an answer yet. I am frankly overwhelmed and stunned by it, because my pet theory [edit - in reality, moreso a strong hunch rather than theory] for over 2 years now...has been destroyed!...demolished!...i.e., "my sperm regeneration speed is the cause of my POIS."

edit - maybe replace "sperm" with "semen"?
« Last Edit: 28/04/2011 17:54:16 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12993 on: 28/04/2011 17:42:53 »
I think someone may have mentioned this but for the POIS tv show animus will be on, if possible it would be cool if someone could record it and put it on youtube of course with animus's permission. I myself don't have the equipment to do so.

Youtube has a limit of 1GB and/or 10 min or something like that... might be a problem, unless we do an extract.


There is a new YouTube limit now. 30-45 minutes I think.

edit - here is their message to some users: "Congratulations! Your account is now enabled for uploads longer than 15 minutes. Click the Upload button below to select a video."
« Last Edit: 28/04/2011 17:56:07 by demografx »

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12994 on: 28/04/2011 17:47:40 »

...it's gone beyond easy...


Maybe that's the part I'm having trouble with.

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12995 on: 28/04/2011 18:04:07 »

I think someone may have mentioned this but for the POIS tv show animus will be on, if possible it would be cool if someone could record it and put it on youtube of course with animus's permission. I myself don't have the equipment to do so.


VM, I just passed your post on to the TV producer, asking if this is possible.

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12996 on: 28/04/2011 18:23:59 »
I'll have important test results very soon on the specific IgE antibodies to seminal plasma proteins, which is seen in women with seminal plasma hypersensitivity.

For the last 2.5 months I've worked with Dr. Bernstein and the University of Cincinnati Allergy Laboratory.


Does seminal plasma protiens mean "no sperm"? That would be a very cool test!

Nice one limejuice, I like your style, drop in once in a while, but you make sure to drop great bombs on us.

So those protein, is he testing every seminal protein or just does known to affect women.
It would be nice if he can also test sperm without seminal protein  that would answer alot of question.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12997 on: 28/04/2011 18:38:06 »
I'll have important test results very soon on the specific IgE antibodies to seminal plasma proteins, which is seen in women with seminal plasma hypersensitivity.

For the last 2.5 months I've worked with Dr. Bernstein and the University of Cincinnati Allergy Laboratory.


The results might find a place in the compendium, I defiantly look forward to seeing them.

Something I wanted to bring up before is my somewhat effective use of Chinese medicine.  While in China, the Chinese doctor told me my kidneys are weak and recommended I drink a cup of the following medicine twice a day.  10g cinnamon bark, 10g dried ginger, 10g fresh ginger, and 8 dried dates boiled in a pot until half the water evaporates.  After drinking this for a few months now, I have noticed more mental and physical energy that help compensate for the brain fog, anxiety, and overall fatigue. 

Pyro, with your permission, I'd like to copy this to the other forum. We've got a special place for successful remedies.

BTW I will also be including a reference to your compendium in our WEB cover page.

Thx.



Permission granted daveman :)  I wonder if it'd be a good idea to put a compendium suggestion section on the other forum?  With the complexity of the new forum, I think its even more necessary to have a compendium (which is basically the website) that gives a comprehensive summary/overview of everything going on and highlights important/prominent revaluations amongst all the discussions (I guess kind of like what reddit does on the internet).

Welcome Back!!!

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12998 on: 28/04/2011 18:42:45 »
I'll have important test results very soon on the specific IgE antibodies to seminal plasma proteins, which is seen in women with seminal plasma hypersensitivity.

For the last 2.5 months I've worked with Dr. Bernstein and the University of Cincinnati Allergy Laboratory.


Does seminal plasma protiens mean "no sperm"? That would be a very cool test!

Nice one limejuice, I like your style, drop in once in a while, but you make sure to drop great bombs on us.

So those protein, is he testing every seminal protein or just does known to affect women.
It would be nice if he can also test sperm without seminal protein  that would answer alot of question.

The test is comprehensive of the human immune system and includes all mediators - IgE, IgM, IgG, and T-Cells.  It should truely determine if POIS is a reaction to seminal plasma or something else.  After all the test is $2,000.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #12999 on: 28/04/2011 20:04:40 »

[/quote]

Nice one limejuice, I like your style, drop in once in a while, but you make sure to drop great bombs on us.

So those protein, is he testing every seminal protein or just does known to affect women.
It would be nice if he can also test sperm without seminal protein  that would answer alot of question.
[/quote]

The test is comprehensive of the human immune system and includes all mediators - IgE, IgM, IgG, and T-Cells.  It should truely determine if POIS is a reaction to seminal plasma or something else.  After all the test is $2,000.
[/quote]

Nice am excited, hope you didnt have to pay out of pocket for that.