Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline Zoop

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« Reply #14600 on: 10/09/2011 15:22:27 »
Has anyone tried taking niacine during POIS, and does it have any effect ?

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14601 on: 10/09/2011 16:23:21 »
I take niacin daily without effect:

1) maybe the "spike" of niacin is needed, so my daily intake doesn't work possibly because I have built a tolerance to niacin and now my body doesn't "react", it simply has gotten used to it.

2) I take 325mg aspirin at the same time, which may _counter_  the flush that is necessary for POIS treatment effectiveness.

3) My ongoing and very successful POIS treatment with testosterone + stimulants maybe means that I'm not a good candidate for niacin?
« Last Edit: 10/09/2011 16:29:38 by demografx »

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Offline rock27

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« Reply #14602 on: 10/09/2011 18:51:13 »
Demo,

I remember the first time you had an O while on daily Naicin, you were almost POIS-free (also huge part due to testosterone). Did you experience the flush then??

POIS, fatigue, brain fog, can't find words, irritated, can't concentrate.

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Offline traderwithpois

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« Reply #14603 on: 10/09/2011 21:46:50 »
Dear all,

I discovered this forum a few days ago, but have been searching for this type of symptom occasionally on google for at least a year or two now.  Glad to have finally found a place I can call home.  There is some comfort just in knowing I am not alone.

BRIEF SUMMARY/SYMPTOMS:  23 year old male, come from a slightly neurotic household but medical-oriented (father is a doctor).  I work in a high finance trading job in a good city.  Perfect genes, tough to pinpoint when symptoms started but it has gotten progressively worse over time.  I suffer from post ejaculation fatigue, depression, clouded thought, difficulty focusing/concentrating, loss of libido, acne, lack of appetite (and I am already very skinny), weakened immune system, irritability/cynicism, very serious personality, sunlight sensitivity, disturbed sleep (lack of dreaming/deep sleep, wake up still very tired).  My symptoms tend to occur in the 2-3 days afters ejaculating, (the worst being the morning after), but I feel some minor effects beginning right after orgasm.  One year ago I developed acid reflux/heartburn, constant burping, and an endoscopy revealed a hiatal hernia.  Very recently, symptoms have worsened, turning into mild nausea after eating, full blown anxiety and even downright panic attacks.  At times it feels like I have too much adrenaline pumping through my veins, and at other times it feels like I am downright depressed.  Doctors feel that the gastro issues are related to the anxiety, which has underlying depression as the cause.  I began taking clonazepam as needed in past few weeks, but have had a mixed response so far.   Doctor wants me to start on antidepressants like Zoloft and possible other medication.

WHAT WORKS FOR ME: Tough to say since my symptoms seem to be getting worse but in general, when I take ZINC, it gives me libido (rock hard erections), energy, confidence, and helps with sleep, and helps to clear up acne blemishes, it also helps me to concentrate/think better.  However, the effects are short lived as ejaculating seems to pull the zinc right out of me (my semen must have a tremendous amount of zinc content). Still, I cannot speak enough to the benefits of Zinc.  I recently switched to Zinc Magnesium Calcium supplements.  Exercise helps only in the immediate short term, releasing endorphins for me that make me feel good all around.  Protein in general seems to help me recover faster.  Sleep seems to help my body refresh its energy/hormonal levels, and I may suffer from chronic lack of sleep as I have a deviated septum so it may be that I have been getting slightly less than optimal amounts of sleep for several years now.  Sunlight seems to help a bit, but I have not confirmed this for myself.  Also, it seems to help when I try to lead an active lifestyle where I don't worry so much about trying to time ejaculations perfectly every X number of days, or time my meals at the same time, etc.  Adding diversity to my daily activities/eating habits such as snacking, and random exercise, and random supplement taking, seems to help smooth out the symptoms and helps me to not focus on them so much.  But I do not have a definitive cure yet.

LOOKING FORWARD:  I would really like to try Niacan based off the rave reviews on this forum.  Will update on how that is going.  Also will update if I start taking any antidepressants or other doctor-prescribed medication.  Going to read through this forum more closely to find any other tips or tricks.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:  I think some of my issues may have to do with depression/anxiety and its far reaching effects.  I may also suffer from stress.  It is also possible that my way of life creates too much adrenaline, which could somehow deplete vitamins/nurtrients (a lot of my symptoms trace back to when I starting getting interested in the stock market, business jobs, etc...basically the stress/adrenaline factor).  So I definitely think it may be vitamin/nutrient related, which is why Zinc works so well at times.  I think there is a psychological component to this but that it does not cover everything.  I would like to contribute $$ to a cause that researches this more, though I come from a family that is very skeptical of giving donations due to fraud/scams these days.  If there was a way that I could feel completely confident the money is going to a legitimate institution, I would be happy to contribute what I can now, and more over time.  I should also note that I am definitely in favor of a shared excel spreadsheet that organizes everyones perosonal bios, symptoms, medical history, and treatments/cures.

« Last Edit: 10/09/2011 21:50:18 by traderwithpois »

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14604 on: 10/09/2011 21:54:45 »

Demo,

I remember the first time you had an O while on daily Naicin, you were almost POIS-free (also huge part due to testosterone). Did you experience the flush then??


Rocky,

I think it was either placebo or coincidence, because I don't feel any ongoing POIS improvement apart from my successful TRT treatment. POIS is now about the same as in my pre-niacin days.

I do have a number of nearly-POIS-free episodes routinely and I have yet to explain why!

I was also instructed to begin niacin therapy with uncoated 325mg aspirin to COUNTER the flush, and then I continued with 325mg aspirin because that is normal protocol for posturgical bypass patients like me. I suspect the aspirin continues to counter the flush.   


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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14605 on: 10/09/2011 22:00:52 »

traderwithpois, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS Forum - architectural genius: "daveman" - for detailed subject-by-subject discussion!
http://www.POISCenter.com/forums/index.php
Our 4-year-old POIS thread here at Naked Science Forum will also always remain open for newcomers, for general unstructured discussion, and historical research of the 10,000+ postings here since 2007.

The Learning Channel's (TLC)  feature TV presentation on POIS, featuring our member here at this forum, "Animus". It was aired on May 22, 2011. Here is a link to the file for that TV documentary, "Desperate Measures", which can be downloaded and played. The segment starts at about 12:20..
http://www.fileserve.com/file/cUtJa9R/TITLE01.mp4

Our POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

The POIS Information Website is home to the famous POIS Forum Compendium, written by "Pyropeach", and contains theories already discussed here and treatments that have both worked and failed.

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

Our new POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat

Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome "POIS": Case report

Authors:
Abdalla M Attia*, Magda H Al-Ziny, Hossam A Yasien
*Corresponding author: Andrology Unit, Minoufiya University, Shibin El Kom, Eygpt

For more info, check out emi_b's  SMF POIS thread:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=191.0;topicseen


Available Upon Request:

1. and 2. POIS Research Studies, 2011

These 2 papers reveal Dr. Waldinger's POIS autoimmune hypothesis and suggests one possible avenue of treatment.

3. First POIS Research Study, 2002

We have a copy of the first formal medical investigation on POIS by Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger,MD,PhD, and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

  
4. Recent POIS Research Study, 2010

CASE REPORT
Postorgasm Illness Syndrome - A Spectrum of Illnesses
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg316781#msg316781


5. British Medical Journal Case Report, 2010

Case study by Dr. Selwyn Dexter of a patient with a headache-featured POIS symptom treated with progesterone/norethisterone.
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2010/bcr.10.2009.2359.short?rss=1


How to get any or all of the above 5 studies: send me or "daveman" a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and we'll send you back the PDF(s).

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, i.e., "demografx", or "daveman".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapeutic community. All of this information can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT 'ALL IN OUR HEADS'! "

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum, which has already been referenced in respectable sources such as the Journal of Sexual Medicine (Dr. Waldinger's study), British Medical Journal and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For over 4 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 200 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, research on an additional 200 sufferers elsewhere on the internet, plus over 1,300,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!



SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: more than 4 years' worth of posts (over  10,000 posts!) from 200+ Forum members, and an additional 200 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
nocturnal emission POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 740 results came up for "nocturnal emission" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.



We started a POIS Medical Research Fund to accelerate our finding a POIS cure! It is explained here in detail:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.0


We've raised nearly $3,000.....with much more $$$ pledged!


And your POIS fund donation is most welcome here:
http://rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations


Helping the Fund will help YOU to a faster cure for YOUR POIS!!


If you can't contribute now, post your PLEDGE ! Knowledge of your "future funding" intentions will be very uplifting and will affect us all!!


$ Large or small $ !! THANK YOU!!!

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Offline Vincent M

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« Reply #14606 on: 10/09/2011 22:49:25 »
About the prolactin thing my refractory period is only about 10 to 30 minutes. If I have an orgasm then have another orgasm in 10 to 30 min then my refractory period for the third orgasm will be closer to an hour. I highly doubt a shorter refractory period could lessen POIS symptoms since my own is already pretty short. I find having a short refractory period to actually worsen POIS because having a short refractory period makes it so much more difficult to resist having an orgasm, which causes me to have multiple orgasms per day.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Willem

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« Reply #14607 on: 11/09/2011 01:42:34 »
Hello Willem,
could you please again summarize a bit your desensitization treatment
1- when did you start and where
2- how many injections have you received till now and concentrations
3- percent of improvement you are feeling
4- fresh or frozen samples each time?

can't wait to hear it is working for you!
thanks

Hi Carlitto,  I replied via PM, but just so everyone knows, I'm doing self-administered sublingual immunotherapy. 

[EDIT] I posted preliminary results below. 
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 05:00:24 by Willem »

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Offline Willem

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« Reply #14608 on: 11/09/2011 01:49:14 »
Willem -You're doing the sublingual immunotherapy at home.  I know there's probably some risk of shock and perhaps it's against medical advice to do this on your own so pls be as safe as possible about it, but I just wanted to personally say that I'm very excited for your results.  I know you're waiting for conclusive evidence to share with us, so I'm waiting patiently until then.  Also, i think you're a crazy pioneer/maverick for treating yourself with this and I give you a ton of credit for undertaking such an experiment!
Thanks B_Daniel!  I'm also hoping for good results.  I know there are a lot of people out there that don't have access to injection therapy and it would sure be nice to have another free, easily applicable method available as a back-up for those that are so fed up with POIS they'll try almost anything.  Ha ha. 

ADDITIONAL INFO ON RISKS/EFFICACY FROM WIKIPEDIA:

The practice of sublingual immunotherapy has been more available in Europe than in the United States. Concerns regarding the risks of oral and injection immunotherapy have always included death from anaphylaxis[9]. Because of the higher risks of injection therapy in the 1980ís formal research into alternatives to injection therapy was supported in Europe. These studies demonstrated the relative safety and apparent effectiveness of sublingual immunotherapy, which resulted in widespread international acceptance of the method. In 1998 the World Health Organization concluded that sublingual immunotherapy was a viable alternative to the injection route and that its use in clinical practice is justified.[10]

...

In the early years of SLIT local sensitivities were reported in many patients (oral itching, intestinal disturbances) but these could usually be managed by dose adjustments. Although as of July 2009 no deaths have been reported from SLIT (and many millions of doses have been taken), numerous cases of anaphylaxis have now been reported. In one study, for example, sixty patients who ranged in age from 6 to 50 years were treated over a 90-day period with a progressive dose of dust mite antigens via SLIT. In this small study alone there were seven systemic reactions (meaning, atopy, a reaction that occurs thorough the whole body, not just where the allergen is applied). All reactions were associated with wheezing or worsening nasal symptoms, and one patient had angioedema and urticaria.[13]
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 01:58:26 by Willem »

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Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14609 on: 11/09/2011 02:47:46 »
Dear all,

I discovered this forum a few days ago, but have been searching for this type of symptom occasionally on google for at least a year or two now.  Glad to have finally found a place I can call home.  There is some comfort just in knowing I am not alone.

BRIEF SUMMARY/SYMPTOMS:  23 year old male, come from a slightly neurotic household but medical-oriented (father is a doctor).  I work in a high finance trading job in a good city.  Perfect genes, tough to pinpoint when symptoms started but it has gotten progressively worse over time.  I suffer from post ejaculation fatigue, depression, clouded thought, difficulty focusing/concentrating, loss of libido, acne, lack of appetite (and I am already very skinny), weakened immune system, irritability/cynicism, very serious personality, sunlight sensitivity, disturbed sleep (lack of dreaming/deep sleep, wake up still very tired).  My symptoms tend to occur in the 2-3 days afters ejaculating, (the worst being the morning after), but I feel some minor effects beginning right after orgasm.  One year ago I developed acid reflux/heartburn, constant burping, and an endoscopy revealed a hiatal hernia.  Very recently, symptoms have worsened, turning into mild nausea after eating, full blown anxiety and even downright panic attacks.  At times it feels like I have too much adrenaline pumping through my veins, and at other times it feels like I am downright depressed.  Doctors feel that the gastro issues are related to the anxiety, which has underlying depression as the cause.  I began taking clonazepam as needed in past few weeks, but have had a mixed response so far.   Doctor wants me to start on antidepressants like Zoloft and possible other medication.

WHAT WORKS FOR ME: Tough to say since my symptoms seem to be getting worse but in general, when I take ZINC, it gives me libido (rock hard erections), energy, confidence, and helps with sleep, and helps to clear up acne blemishes, it also helps me to concentrate/think better.  However, the effects are short lived as ejaculating seems to pull the zinc right out of me (my semen must have a tremendous amount of zinc content). Still, I cannot speak enough to the benefits of Zinc.  I recently switched to Zinc Magnesium Calcium supplements.  Exercise helps only in the immediate short term, releasing endorphins for me that make me feel good all around.  Protein in general seems to help me recover faster.  Sleep seems to help my body refresh its energy/hormonal levels, and I may suffer from chronic lack of sleep as I have a deviated septum so it may be that I have been getting slightly less than optimal amounts of sleep for several years now.  Sunlight seems to help a bit, but I have not confirmed this for myself.  Also, it seems to help when I try to lead an active lifestyle where I don't worry so much about trying to time ejaculations perfectly every X number of days, or time my meals at the same time, etc.  Adding diversity to my daily activities/eating habits such as snacking, and random exercise, and random supplement taking, seems to help smooth out the symptoms and helps me to not focus on them so much.  But I do not have a definitive cure yet.

LOOKING FORWARD:  I would really like to try Niacan based off the rave reviews on this forum.  Will update on how that is going.  Also will update if I start taking any antidepressants or other doctor-prescribed medication.  Going to read through this forum more closely to find any other tips or tricks.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:  I think some of my issues may have to do with depression/anxiety and its far reaching effects.  I may also suffer from stress.  It is also possible that my way of life creates too much adrenaline, which could somehow deplete vitamins/nurtrients (a lot of my symptoms trace back to when I starting getting interested in the stock market, business jobs, etc...basically the stress/adrenaline factor).  So I definitely think it may be vitamin/nutrient related, which is why Zinc works so well at times.  I think there is a psychological component to this but that it does not cover everything.  I would like to contribute $$ to a cause that researches this more, though I come from a family that is very skeptical of giving donations due to fraud/scams these days.  If there was a way that I could feel completely confident the money is going to a legitimate institution, I would be happy to contribute what I can now, and more over time.  I should also note that I am definitely in favor of a shared excel spreadsheet that organizes everyones perosonal bios, symptoms, medical history, and treatments/cures.



Welcome traderwithpois!

I share many symptoms with you. I can tell you Pois makes my stomach issues much worse. Please think it twice before deciding to take an antidepressant! Especially if it's an SSRI, like the Zoloft you mentioned. Some people gets worse Pois symptoms after having taken an SSRI. In fact, there is/was a group in Yahoo Groups called "SSRI-post sexual dysfunction". So, it would be wise to choose, if any, an antidepressant that has not sexual side effects. For example, Bupropion or Mirtazapine.

On the sunlight topic, it really helps me to stay some minutes in the sun. It helps more when i'm not under Pois. Because, under Pois, the sun can be annoying. But when you feel more or less OK, it helps to recover faster. It gives me some energy.

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Offline Willem

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« Reply #14610 on: 11/09/2011 04:58:56 »
Hi Everyone,

Dave and Demo think it's alright to share preliminary results of my sublingual therapy so here goes:

I've been doing the home therapy since May 2011.  I started at 1:50,000 and now am at 1:167.  Around 1:10,000, I started noticing dramatic improvements and have been about the same since then.  Overall POIS is down over 50%.  My mind/energy/motivation/sleep are 80% improved.  My muscles and nerves are about 40% improved.  Recuperation time has gone from 7 days to about 2 days.  I've increased my O frequency from ~1X per week to ~2X per week (trying to get pregnant) and am still feeling pretty good.  Vandemolen has mentioned that major improvements may also come at the 1:70 range so I'm looking forward to that. 

CAVEATS: Since I'm still in the escalation phase I get random side effects from the treatment that I never had from POIS such as: joint pain, intestinal irritation, and pulled muscles.  It also induces a mild, baseline POIS, so maybe I'm being too aggressive, but the treatment itself is not that much fun.  I've been out of town a few weeks and had to take a break from treatments and felt a lot better then, almost normal.  In another 6 weeks or so I should be in the maintenance phase and stop reacting to the treatments.  I'll have a real good idea then of the final outcome.     

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14611 on: 11/09/2011 06:14:35 »
Willem, many thanks for this BREAKTHROUGH reporting!

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Offline rock27

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« Reply #14612 on: 11/09/2011 06:50:42 »
Willem, that is very good news! Congratulations and also much applause for your courage and pioneering!!!
POIS, fatigue, brain fog, can't find words, irritated, can't concentrate.

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Offline Vincent M

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« Reply #14613 on: 11/09/2011 17:27:12 »
Willem, what exact procedure do you use to prepare the diluted solution of semen?

And do you just hold the solution under your tongue for a few seconds then spit it out?

I will probably try it in the future considering I don't have money to spend on doctor visits and injection treatments.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline apostate801

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« Reply #14614 on: 11/09/2011 19:05:30 »
I've read people dying from that sort of therapy due to shock?  Be careful

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Offline B_Daniel

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« Reply #14615 on: 11/09/2011 19:24:59 »

Welcome traderwithpois!

.... Please think it twice before deciding to take an antidepressant! Especially if it's an SSRI, like the Zoloft you mentioned. Some people gets worse Pois symptoms after having taken an SSRI. In fact, there is/was a group in Yahoo Groups called "SSRI-post sexual dysfunction". So, it would be wise to choose, if any, an antidepressant that has not sexual side effects. For example, Bupropion or Mirtazapine.
 

So Buproprion is an SNRI.  Mirtazanine isn't exactly an SNRI but is very closely related.  I take Pristiq which is an SNRI.  All of these seem to have at least slightly helped some of us.  Now I know anti-depressant meds have been discussed ad-naseum on this website.  So I'll just admit before writing this that truthfully I haven't gone back and read much on anti-depressants.  But here's my take-away from the litte I know: SSRIs bad, SNRIs slightly helpful.  (Somebody chime in if I'm way off base here)

I've been on Pristiq (SNRI) for 2 yrs now, on and off.  I know these anti-depressants are supposed to take  couple weeks to build up in your system before they start working.  When I took Pristiq for the 1st time, I became wired within about 20 mins, and my bainfog and anxiety practically vanished.  Gradually, over the course of a two months, Pristiq ceased having an effect on me.  Now, for Pristiq to help me, I can only take 1/4 of a 25mg pill (the lowest size), and it reduces my fog substantially for about a day and a half.  I can only take it once a week, bc any more than that and it becomes ineffective.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 19:29:43 by B_Daniel »
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline demografx

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14617 on: 11/09/2011 21:49:16 »

I've read people dying from that sort of therapy due to shock?  Be careful


Anaphylactic shock?

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14618 on: 11/09/2011 22:13:02 »

Demo,

I remember the first time you had an O while on daily Naicin, you were almost POIS-free (also huge part due to testosterone). Did you experience the flush then??


Rocky,

I think it was either placebo or coincidence, because I don't feel any ongoing POIS improvement apart from my successful TRT treatment. POIS is now about the same as in my pre-niacin days.

I do have a number of nearly-POIS-free episodes routinely and I have yet to explain why!

I was also instructed to begin niacin therapy with uncoated 325mg aspirin to COUNTER the flush, and then I continued with 325mg aspirin because that is normal protocol for posturgical bypass patients like me. I suspect the aspirin continues to counter the flush.   



Everyone: Please don't take any of my comments to be anti-niacin. To the contrary I'm quite excited about niacin's potential!

I'm just contributing my personal experience, which is really odd because of my post-bypass Rx regimen - which seems to undo niacin's beneficial POIS effects - - but just for those like me.

And I'm just greedy: I want that silver bullet that will take me from 80% POIS-free to 100%!! [:)]
« Last Edit: 11/09/2011 22:29:34 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14619 on: 11/09/2011 22:24:01 »

Quick summary: my high dose TRT + stimulants + forced (extra) sleep are extremely powerful POIS tools for me. At times, I am nearly 100% POIS-free. On average: 80%.

Please do NOT try what I do without strict testing, diagnosis and medical supervision. It can be dangerous.

After 35 years POIS agony, I can't begin to describe my gratitude these last 2+ years. I thank you - this forum - for showing me the way!

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Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14620 on: 11/09/2011 22:39:20 »

Quick summary: my high dose TRT + stimulants + forced (extra) sleep are extremely powerful POIS tools for me. At times, I am nearly 100% POIS-free. On average: 80%.

Please do NOT try what I do without strict testing, diagnosis and medical supervision. It can be dangerous.

After 35 years POIS agony, I can't begin to describe my gratitude these last 2+ years. I thank you - this forum - for showing me the way!

This is great Demo! I hope some day i'm also 80% Pois-free! Just a quick question: what stimulants do work better for you? Have you (or others) tried Adderall kind of drugs?

I'm also interested in knowing if someone has tried Requip or similar drugs.

Thanks!

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14621 on: 12/09/2011 00:30:41 »
Quasar, thank you!

Yes, Adderall was effective. Only because of insurance I switched to Ritalin. Equally effective.

I also supplement with caffeine.

I must stress: these are dangerous combinations, especially with TRT which is ALSO a stimulant! Especially for someone like me, a post-cardiac bypass surgery patient!


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Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14622 on: 12/09/2011 00:43:56 »
Quasar, thank you!

Yes, Adderall was effective. Only because of insurance I switched to Ritalin. Equally effective.

I also supplement with caffeine.

I must stress: these are dangerous combinations, especially with TRT which is ALSO a stimulant! Especially for someone like me, a post-cardiac bypass surgery patient!



So, what percentage from that 80% do you think is thanks to Adderall/Ritalin?

Do you take Ritalin for helping in Pois, or other health issues?

Thanks a lot Demo!

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14623 on: 12/09/2011 04:08:45 »

Quasar, very hard to say in percentage terms, because I was on ADHD stimulants prior to TRT.

However, I can clearly say that TRT is the lion's share by far in my 80%+ POIS cure for the last 2 and 1/2 years.

In terms of forcing sleep, Benadryl is my added experimental drug of choice. I find that "forcing" or "extra" sleep does wonders in boosting the speed of my POIS recovery.

These are NOT recommendations for others here! Find your own medical path to a POIS cure with a solid, empathetic medical professional(s).

In my case, following the wisdom of this forum in its early years, I did full hormonal bloodtesting with a very competent and empathetic endocrinologist.

I would have never done that if it weren't for this forum!

It still feels like a miracle.


« Last Edit: 12/09/2011 04:17:51 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14624 on: 12/09/2011 04:22:18 »

Ryuk,
Welcome!

I can imagine it is almost impossible to go through the 600 pages here;
This community has therefore created a forum to discuss in topics,
for example about the recent niacin solution:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.0
then just click home to see the other topics, it's the best POIS overview we have right now.


mod edit - bold emphasis mine

« Last Edit: 12/09/2011 04:25:23 by demografx »

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Offline GoingCrazy

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« Reply #14625 on: 12/09/2011 05:06:36 »

I'm just one data point though.


Gee.....and here I thought you were a swell human being.....where did I go wrong??? [;D]

haha demo this where you went wrong... you missed the 1st question !  [;D]  just joking!



lol, she took 50/50

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Offline GoingCrazy

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« Reply #14626 on: 12/09/2011 05:08:37 »
I take niacin daily without effect:

1) maybe the "spike" of niacin is needed, so my daily intake doesn't work possibly because I have built a tolerance to niacin and now my body doesn't "react", it simply has gotten used to it.

2) I take 325mg aspirin at the same time, which may _counter_  the flush that is necessary for POIS treatment effectiveness.

3) My ongoing and very successful POIS treatment with testosterone + stimulants maybe means that I'm not a good candidate for niacin?

demo, u'd be surprised a lot of stimulants have niacin in them, coffee being the highest.

I've also found it strange that what I think caused POIS for me (coffee) can also relieve it during an episode.

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Offline GoingCrazy

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« Reply #14627 on: 12/09/2011 05:19:38 »
I've read people dying from that sort of therapy due to shock?  Be careful

Sublingual therapy?

I guess I should of thought twice when I took 100% semen and put it under my tongue.

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Offline GoingCrazy

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« Reply #14628 on: 12/09/2011 05:23:41 »
I "O'd" seven times in between yesterday night and this morning around 11 am, it is now 12 midnight.  I have about 50% POIS symptoms which usually last for a day.  So far it is pretty much gone.  Should be gone within 12 hours from this point.

This is for everybody taking niacin...

You all mean vitamin B correct?


I definitely feel though, that is, the affect of POIS for me is like something that starts where the orgasm takes place in my head (the upper neck lower brain connection), and feels like something is being forced from there up to my midbrain and into the front of my head.  I'm surprised nobody has POIS like this. [?]
« Last Edit: 12/09/2011 05:27:32 by GoingCrazy »

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Offline Willem

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« Reply #14629 on: 12/09/2011 05:26:10 »
Willem, what exact procedure do you use to prepare the diluted solution of semen?

And do you just hold the solution under your tongue for a few seconds then spit it out?

I will probably try it in the future considering I don't have money to spend on doctor visits and injection treatments.
Willem's Sublingual Immunotherapy Treatment Process

PROCESS:
  • Collect fresh semen sample in small glass bowl and let sit at room temp until it completely liquifies (>1hr for me)
  • Wrap Al foil over top of glass bowl and freeze
  • Treatment schedule is variable.  Always do it at night so I can rest if it induces POIS.  Usually do treatments every other night.
  • Anti-histamines: I use anti-histamines to reduce reaction to O, but need to be off of them for 48hrs before treatment in order to gauge how my body is reacting.  I've been off of AHs for over a month now.
  • For treatment, remove from freezer, chip off tiny piece (roughly 0.1mL) into another glass bowl, let thaw.  Immediately re-cover and refreeze main sample.
  • Fill 1L measuring cup with warm tap water
  • Using a 1mL needle-less syringe, draw the chipped-off/thawed sample from the bowl into the syringe.  
  • Squirt sample into measuring cup and make sure syringe is evacuated and double check that the semen sample dilutes well (no coagulation)
  • Stir, and while stirring, draw a small sample with a dropper
  • Clear all saliva from under tongue
  • Apply two drops under tongue
  • Let sit for at least 5 minutes (no swallowing)
  • Swallow.  No food or drink for 30 minutes (so as not to disturb the sore throat measurement)
  • The treatment usually gives me a sore throat.  If the sore throat goes away by 10AM (and no POIS etc.), I increase the concentration of the next treatment.  Otherwise I back off of the concentration a bit or keep the concentration constant.

EQUIPMENT:
To get started all you need is a 1mL syringe (see picture below) and a 2L measuring cup with metric units on it.  Once you get into higher concentrations, you will need a graduated cylinder.  Both the 1mL and cylinder came with this dilution kit purchased online.  


PRECAUTION:
This is not medical advice, try at your own risk.  May result in an anaphylactic shock and death or a home remedy cure for POIS
, wish me luck.

mod edit - bold red emphasis mine
« Last Edit: 12/09/2011 18:04:44 by demografx »

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Offline GoingCrazy

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« Reply #14630 on: 12/09/2011 05:33:54 »
Hi Everyone,

Dave and Demo think it's alright to share preliminary results of my sublingual therapy so here goes:

I've been doing the home therapy since May 2011.  I started at 1:50,000 and now am at 1:167.  Around 1:10,000, I started noticing dramatic improvements and have been about the same since then.  Overall POIS is down over 50%.  My mind/energy/motivation/sleep are 80% improved.  My muscles and nerves are about 40% improved.  Recuperation time has gone from 7 days to about 2 days.  I've increased my O frequency from ~1X per week to ~2X per week (trying to get pregnant) and am still feeling pretty good.  Vandemolen has mentioned that major improvements may also come at the 1:70 range so I'm looking forward to that. 

CAVEATS: Since I'm still in the escalation phase I get random side effects from the treatment that I never had from POIS such as: joint pain, intestinal irritation, and pulled muscles.  It also induces a mild, baseline POIS, so maybe I'm being too aggressive, but the treatment itself is not that much fun.  I've been out of town a few weeks and had to take a break from treatments and felt a lot better then, almost normal.  In another 6 weeks or so I should be in the maintenance phase and stop reacting to the treatments.  I'll have a real good idea then of the final outcome.     

Please tell me in 6 weeks if you have POIS anymore.  I am not going to lie about myself but I am a skeptic about this theory.  Please honestly inform me when you are done and orgasm a couple of times, that would be great if it worked. 

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Offline Willem

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« Reply #14631 on: 12/09/2011 05:34:44 »
I've read people dying from that sort of therapy due to shock?  Be careful

Sublingual therapy?

I guess I should of thought twice when I took 100% semen and put it under my tongue.
Last I read, there were no confirmed deaths attributable to sublingual therapy.  Even when prescribed by a doctor, the treatment is administered at home with no medical supervision because of its safe track record.  My guess is that your mouth needs to be pretty flexible about what it reacts to.  The main reason most people need a doctor for this is to get access to the samples and at the right dilutions.  As long as we are careful about the dilutions, we have plenty of the sample.

All of us are coming into contact with 1:1 semen periodically so wouldn't we all face the risk of anaphylactic shock?

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Offline horizon

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« Reply #14632 on: 12/09/2011 09:15:50 »
I am not going to lie about myself but I am a skeptic about this theory. 
yeah, im doubtful it works. i did it for awhile.
sure, you get a negative reaction after dabbing a semen mix under the tongue but i suspected it was self-induced.
I decided to do my own double blind test with one bottle 1:2000 semen mix and another bottle pure mineral water.
One gave me a 3/10 negative reaction, the other 0.5/10.
It turned out it was the mineral water that gave me the stronger negative reaction.

It was nacebo (negative placebo.)
ive since stopped mainly because i feel the semen allergy theory is a load of total bollocks.
« Last Edit: 12/09/2011 09:37:12 by horizon »

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Offline prister

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« Reply #14633 on: 12/09/2011 14:42:15 »
Hey,
Even when i get aroused,
i start getting a headache and i feel numbness and heaviness in my head.
My neck becomes stiff and get a back ache.
i find it difficult to even lift my head and it hurts only on one side and that is on the top right of my head.
i feel memory loss and it is hard to read or remember anything also.
The pain is consistent for several days.
it even continuously hurts in the back of my right eye.
Can i have brain aneurysm or hematoma???
Doctors say it might be a migraine attack but medicines dont help and pain doesnt go for days.!!!
Feels like right side of my brain is rigid or kind of dead..!!!
I too get nocturnal emissions at times. :(
What problem do i have???? :((

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Offline Vincent M

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« Reply #14634 on: 12/09/2011 15:22:41 »
pristor, it definitely sounds like POIS to me.

We've been experimenting with a lot of small home treatments. For instance fenugreek pills taken with a raw garlic clove greatly ease my brainfog and some of my other symptoms. Saw palmetto works very well for me too, but I think it works for me more by reducing inflammation especially in the lower region of my body.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14635 on: 12/09/2011 18:02:01 »
Hey,
Even when i get aroused,
i start getting a headache and i feel numbness and heaviness in my head.
My neck becomes stiff and get a back ache.
i find it difficult to even lift my head and it hurts only on one side and that is on the top right of my head.
i feel memory loss and it is hard to read or remember anything also.
The pain is consistent for several days.
it even continuously hurts in the back of my right eye.
Can i have brain aneurysm or hematoma???
Doctors say it might be a migraine attack but medicines dont help and pain doesnt go for days.!!!
Feels like right side of my brain is rigid or kind of dead..!!!
I too get nocturnal emissions at times. :(
What problem do i have???? :((

Welcome prister!

Yes, it sounds as Pois with a heavy migraine/headache component.

BTW, your right side of your brain is not dead, it's just the scalp. I also get numbness in my scalp after having an "O".

The worse part is that i told doctors i would like to have screened that area of the scalp, but they just limited to do a CT and MRI/MRA of the brain, which obviously was right. In that kind of scans, the scalp -and it's veins and arteries- are NOT easily seen.

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14636 on: 12/09/2011 18:02:54 »

I take niacin daily without effect:

1) maybe the "spike" of niacin is needed, so my daily intake doesn't work +possibly because I have built a tolerance to niacin and now my body doesn't "react", it simply has gotten used to it.

2) I take 325mg aspirin at the same time, which may _counter_  the flush that is necessary for POIS treatment effectiveness.

3) My ongoing and very successful POIS treatment with testosterone + stimulants maybe means that I'm not a good candidate for niacin?


demo, u'd be surprised a lot of stimulants have niacin in them, coffee being the highest.

I've also found it strange that what I think caused POIS for me (coffee) can also relieve it during an episode.


GoingCrazy, very interesting!

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14637 on: 12/09/2011 18:08:23 »

prister, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS Forum - architectural genius: "daveman" - for detailed subject-by-subject discussion!
http://www.POISCenter.com/forums/index.php
Our 4-year-old POIS thread here at Naked Science Forum will also always remain open for newcomers, for general unstructured discussion, and historical research of the 10,000+ postings here since 2007.

The Learning Channel's (TLC)  feature TV presentation on POIS, featuring our member here at this forum, "Animus". It was aired on May 22, 2011. Here is a link to the file for that TV documentary, "Desperate Measures", which can be downloaded and played. The segment starts at about 12:20..
http://www.fileserve.com/file/cUtJa9R/TITLE01.mp4

Our POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

The POIS Information Website is home to the famous POIS Forum Compendium, written by "Pyropeach", and contains theories already discussed here and treatments that have both worked and failed.

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

Our new POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat

Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome "POIS": Case report

Authors:
Abdalla M Attia*, Magda H Al-Ziny, Hossam A Yasien
*Corresponding author: Andrology Unit, Minoufiya University, Shibin El Kom, Eygpt

For more info, check out emi_b's  SMF POIS thread:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=191.0;topicseen


Available Upon Request:

1. and 2. POIS Research Studies, 2011

These 2 papers reveal Dr. Waldinger's POIS autoimmune hypothesis and suggests one possible avenue of treatment.

3. First POIS Research Study, 2002

We have a copy of the first formal medical investigation on POIS by Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger,MD,PhD, and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

  
4. Recent POIS Research Study, 2010

CASE REPORT
Postorgasm Illness Syndrome - A Spectrum of Illnesses
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg316781#msg316781


5. British Medical Journal Case Report, 2010

Case study by Dr. Selwyn Dexter of a patient with a headache-featured POIS symptom treated with progesterone/norethisterone.
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2010/bcr.10.2009.2359.short?rss=1


How to get any or all of the above 5 studies: send me or "daveman" a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and we'll send you back the PDF(s).

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, i.e., "demografx", or "daveman".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapeutic community. All of this information can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT 'ALL IN OUR HEADS'! "

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum, which has already been referenced in respectable sources such as the Journal of Sexual Medicine (Dr. Waldinger's study), British Medical Journal and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For over 4 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 200 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, research on an additional 200 sufferers elsewhere on the internet, plus over 1,300,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!



SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: more than 4 years' worth of posts (over  10,000 posts!) from 200+ Forum members, and an additional 200 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
nocturnal emission POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 740 results came up for "nocturnal emission" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.



We started a POIS Medical Research Fund to accelerate our finding a POIS cure! It is explained here in detail:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.0


We've raised nearly $3,000.....with much more $$$ pledged!


And your POIS fund donation is most welcome here:
http://rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations


Helping the Fund will help YOU to a faster cure for YOUR POIS!!


If you can't contribute now, post your PLEDGE ! Knowledge of your "future funding" intentions will be very uplifting and will affect us all!!


$ Large or small $ !! THANK YOU!!!


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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14638 on: 12/09/2011 18:12:10 »

All of us are coming into contact with 1:1 semen periodically so wouldn't we all face the risk of anaphylactic shock?


Willem, excellent point!


Wish me luck [with my Sublingual Immunotherapy Treatment Process].


Best wishes, Willem!!
« Last Edit: 12/09/2011 20:24:57 by demografx »

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Offline EDS

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« Reply #14639 on: 13/09/2011 00:50:51 »
Come on folks!
We really need to get OUR POIS Fund fully funded!

We can get an answer to what really works and what doesn't when we get the professionals at NORD conducting serious scientific research on our behalf.

Let's continue to try things and speculate, but ultimately we need group coordination and trained physicians on our side.

Please pledge... or better yet actually give to OUR fund.

https://rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations/fg_base_view_p3

If we don't do this - no one else will!!

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Offline apostate801

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« Reply #14640 on: 13/09/2011 03:21:24 »
SLIT info

Do you have to create the mixture everyday or will one liter be good til you get desensitized and increase the concentration

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Offline Willem

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« Reply #14641 on: 13/09/2011 06:19:11 »
SLIT info

Do you have to create the mixture everyday or will one liter be good til you get desensitized and increase the concentration
I personally create the mixture for every application since the particular concentration depends on how I reacted to the previous treatment.  I also try to minimize the freeze/thaw cycles on the semen. 

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Offline apostate801

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« Reply #14642 on: 13/09/2011 14:23:25 »
Do you stir the initial sample?  Any idea how long a frozen sample is good for?

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Offline Willem

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« Reply #14643 on: 13/09/2011 17:02:46 »
Do you stir the initial sample?  Any idea how long a frozen sample is good for?
I do stir the initial sample before freezing to make sure it's liquified.  After a few weeks the frozen sample starts to look freezer burned and doesn't chip off as easily, so I replenish at least once per month. 

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Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14644 on: 14/09/2011 10:36:34 »
For those who have stomach bloatness and diarrhea while in Pois, take a look at this: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:o98SZodJiyYJ:ibdcrohns.about.com/cs/ibs/a/dealibsd.htm+ibs+dehydration&cd=2&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es

I notice my skin A LOT more drier when i have Pois, and my stools lose consistency. It is known that diarrhea can cause dehydration.

I also notice much less Pois symptoms if i have the O. with an empty stomach.

What medication/natural alternative could prevent the diarrhea and bloatness in Pois? If we achieve that, we may also prevent dry skin.

BTW,

I've found this from a user named "john1234" in an acne subject board: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Masturbation-Restriction-t210949.html&st=40

"day 15.

Wow, besides the red marks, i have realized that I've come a freaking long way since my depressed state since day 1.

1. my dry skin is eliminated
2. no active bumps
3. mood is up
4. regaining energy (feel young again.)"


I think there's a lot of people with Pois out there....
« Last Edit: 14/09/2011 10:51:20 by Quasar »

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Offline Quasar

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« Reply #14645 on: 14/09/2011 15:20:50 »
So, i've been reading about IBS, stomach bloatness and diarrhea, and one of the more successful approaches is to first take Rifaximin for a few days/weeks. It is a very safe antibiotic that kills bad gastrointestinal bacteria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifaximin

Then, recolonize the gut with probiotics. Here you have a comparison between them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotics

I think this strategy could be useful for Pois members who have stomach discomfort, pain or bloatness, and it's not dangerous to try.

I also have been reading about Ischemic colitis and crhon's disease. Here you have a pic that could explain why Pois could affect the gastrointestinal system: http://allaboutim.webs.com/Ischemic%20Colitis.jpg

That is if we consider Pois is a kind of migraine/vascular disease.
« Last Edit: 14/09/2011 17:45:32 by Quasar »

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #14646 on: 15/09/2011 17:04:21 »

Mellivora, B_Daniel, Willem, Limejuice, Habibou and all: your concerns are well expressed and legitimate. Daveman and I will bring this up with Stefanie when she returns from a leave of absence in a few weeks. Many thanks for speaking your mind!

Demo


Willem  and others, we haven't forgotten about your concerns over the NORD fund. We're working out alternatives as this is being written. Many thanks for your patience!


« Last Edit: 17/09/2011 04:35:50 by demografx »

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Offline pois1

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Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #14647 on: 17/09/2011 02:34:40 »
Has anyone experimented with treatments after POIS starts?  So I had an O last night then today I took 500mg of Niacin.  I had the flush and felt some improvement over the symptoms but ended up with some lightheadness.  It felt like POIS was still there and was returning after some time.  Then I thought about how if this is an allergy, maybe Benadryl would help.  I took an aspiring and Benadryl and felt some improvement after a few hours.

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Offline Quasar

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Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #14648 on: 17/09/2011 11:25:25 »
Has anyone experimented with treatments after POIS starts?  So I had an O last night then today I took 500mg of Niacin.  I had the flush and felt some improvement over the symptoms but ended up with some lightheadness.  It felt like POIS was still there and was returning after some time.  Then I thought about how if this is an allergy, maybe Benadryl would help.  I took an aspiring and Benadryl and felt some improvement after a few hours.

After Pois has started, it's very difficult to abort it, because it presents with a lot of symptoms. You may improve some of the symptoms, but a lot of us here think that it's more difficult to abort it, than to prevent it.

I experienced with Niacin before and Niacin after Pois. And Niacin before Pois helped me more.

I also tried Paracetamol after Pois, and it helped.

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Offline Vincent M

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Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #14649 on: 17/09/2011 19:41:42 »
fenugreek + garlic/green tea work pretty well to abort POIS for me. Same with saw palmetto. However they work better if taken before orgasm.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.