[John21 (OP)]

This source says no longer than 5 days:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/uva-ursi-000278.htm
My diuretic bottle labels do not contain such warnings so I presume it is a dose dependent warning, or maybe this listed source is very cautious.

John, check this about the five days:
http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/files/2585-%20Herbal%20Diuretic%20monograph.pdf
I'm not sure if it's the same product you took.

Yes this is the exact one that I have.  The warning is written on the bottle, it is just very hard to read. It says to consult a physician for use beyond five days. That does indeed sound like caution is warranted, I don't think I'd want to take it long term. It is a good thing that dandelion root works so well in maing me feel good, perhaps the sleep will improve from that alone.

[Vincent M]

ABC Australia are filming a documentary on POIS- The Catalyst http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/- which consists on several interviews to people suffering POIS, Doctors investigating this condition and the procedures of skin ***** test and desensitization.

I am going to appear on that program -to be aired maybe on April- and i have already done the interview...(Observer)

That is awesome news, Observer. Thanks for all the effort you put into this. I'm sure everyone else here is very thankful for this contribution of yours.

[GoingCrazy]

You know everybody has their "POIS" days so you can expect someone to come on here angry and post and maybe say something they wouldn't really mean to say. 

No!

POIS is no excuse for hurting others!

Perhaps if i would have seen the 3 vile sentences i would have thought otherwise.  I didn't realize he included personal attacks.

[badgerstripe]

[quote author=badgerstripe
Do users of this forum believe low or high histamine is a cause of POIS? I'm confused. I have always thought high histamine was a problem in allergic reactions.

Many of us including myself believe that POIS is caused by an allergic or auto-immune reaction to some component of our semen. I've found that Claritin and Benadryl, both anti-histamines, relieve the majority of my POIS symptoms when taken about an hour before an orgasm.
[/quote]

Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your comments

I may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.

Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.

It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.

On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.

Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared 
 

[GoingCrazy]

I don't know if anybody has tried this before when I suggested it but I find that doing handstands helps relieve the pressure/pois.  Just standing upside down for about 30 seconds, and doing it about 2 or 3 times.  It helps my pois headache.  Just tell me if anybody has a positive experience with this too.

[martin88]

It is a good thing that dandelion root works so well in maing me feel good, perhaps the sleep will improve from that alone.

Now I sometimes have nausea and headaches in POIS so I tried dandelion root (herbal tea, not tincture) and it did nothing. However I took dandelion leaves in the past and it was helpful for energy. Dandelion is diuretic and also supposed to treat liver, gallblader and kidneys problems.

[daveman]

Do users of this forum believe low or high histamine is a cause of POIS? I'm confused. I have always thought high histamine was a problem in allergic reactions.

Many of us including myself believe that POIS is caused by an allergic or auto-immune reaction to some component of our semen. I've found that Claritin and Benadryl, both anti-histamines, relieve the majority of my POIS symptoms when taken about an hour before an orgasm.

Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your comments

I may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.

Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.

It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.

On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.

Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared 
 

Yes, it is VITAL that the niacin is taken before the orgasm! Hopefully with a flush. I have had results without a flush, but to a lesser degree. Day 1 and 2 are always cleared, but without the flush, days 3 to 5 can appear and/or be worse.

I previously had 9 day sessions. Now, wit flush, maybe half a day! And NO cognitive symptoms or NO day 1 - 2 POIS yuck!

[demografx]

Dave, I'm really happy for you!

And thank you for insisting on rigorous experimentation and solid reporting on this.

Niacin may hold the key to POIS - even for those it doesn't seem to work for - by eventually uncovering some of the mechanics of that mysterious connection between orgasm and horrible, longlasting symptoms!

[GoingCrazy]

It is a good thing that dandelion root works so well in maing me feel good, perhaps the sleep will improve from that alone.

Now I sometimes have nausea and headaches in POIS so I tried dandelion root (herbal tea, not tincture) and it did nothing. However I took dandelion leaves in the past and it was helpful for energy. Dandelion is diuretic and also supposed to treat liver, gallblader and kidneys problems.

Where do you get your headaches?  Mine seem to come from my brainstem, just above where my neck connects to my head.

[badgerstripe]

I believe and I hope that POIS is a lot simpler than what we make of it, at least my pois.  Why certain things like caffeine and nutmeg help me?  Possible over-inflammation?  I hope so.  Sounds a lot better than a sperm allergy. 

I agree that inflammation probably causes most of our symptoms, however I now believe (as many of us here have) this inflammation stems from an allergic reaction to our sperm and semen. This theory makes more sense to me now that all the things that I take to reduce my POIS symptoms are well known for their anti-inflammatory properties.

I drink green tea to reduce my symptoms, but I take fenugreek with it and believe the tea merely enhances the effect of the fenugreek somehow. Perhaps some of the benefit comes from the caffeine, but I used to drink green tea by itself with almost no noticeable effect on my symptoms.

Perhaps you are drinking decaffeinated green tea?  I remember drinking hot chocolate after not drinking it for a while and it had a profound affect.

I personally disagree with the sperm allergy, at least for my POIS, but everybody's entitled to their own opinion.  Just doesn't make sense how my body would be allergic to sperm after having been inside my body for years, and POIS just came in a sudden attack.

"You can see that caffeine also causes the brain's blood vessels to constrict, because it blocks adenosine's ability to open them up. This effect is why some headache medicines like Anacin contain caffeine - if you have a vascular headache, the caffeine will close down the blood vessels and relieve it."

http://www.mcvitamins.com/Health%20Opponents/caffeine.htm

-perhaps my POIS?

And I remember taking excedrin migraine that practically cured my pois, but I was very hyper, perhaps because the caffeine content was 65 mg.  Goody's powder is only 32 mg I believe.

I am pretty convinced by the theory that the sperm allergy may be at least one component in this syndrome as I once rubbed my semen onto the skin of my belly and within about three minutes the skin had flared up into dark red marks which were irritated. It was quite alarming so i havent done this since! I have read here that some believe that the allergic reaction that causes POIS may happen during the passage of the semen through the urethra.

[martin88]

Where do you get your headaches?  Mine seem to come from my brainstem, just above where my neck connects to my head.

For me it starts on the right on the forehead side and can reach the top and both sides when more severe. It's a new symptom linked with bad digestion I think.. Before POIS when I was around 12 I also had headache behind the eyes.

[kurtosis]

That's astonishing. Niacin is definitely having a positive effect on me also. I take it with a separate high strength multi-vitamin, don't want to name the brand. I actually feel pretty damn good right now but the multi-vitamin is very high in Zinc and B6. My twin sister has been tested as deficient in several b vitamins so it's possible that it's a combination of all these supplements. Ya know, if this POIS thing hadn't screwed up my life for years I'd be fascinated by it.

What kind of Niacin are you using?

I have solgar 100s and 250s. Solgar is a very popular brand in health food shops and I just grabbed the first thing I saw on the shelf. It's just niacin, not niacinamide and definitely makes me flush. I've noticed that I require double the usual dose to flush the day after an O.

[kurtosis]

I don't know if anybody has tried this before when I suggested it but I find that doing handstands helps relieve the pressure/pois.  Just standing upside down for about 30 seconds, and doing it about 2 or 3 times.  It helps my pois headache.  Just tell me if anybody has a positive experience with this too.

Both niacin and handstands would increase bloodflow to the head (as far as I can determine from some online research). Seems reasonable also.

[John21 (OP)]

It is a good thing that dandelion root works so well in maing me feel good, perhaps the sleep will improve from that alone.

Now I sometimes have nausea and headaches in POIS so I tried dandelion root (herbal tea, not tincture) and it did nothing. However I took dandelion leaves in the past and it was helpful for energy. Dandelion is diuretic and also supposed to treat liver, gallblader and kidneys problems.

Yes I have tried roasted dandelion tea and I find it to be quite mild, the dandelion capsules have more of an effect, although I still kind of like the bitter tea. From my experience it seems important to drink enought water to make these diuretics effective. Several times I have noticed that I dont get any immediate effect from the capsules until I drink some water, and then it is quite noticable. I'm not really sure why my thinking is less clouded on them, but I am curious to know if they might help with POIS.

[mellivora]

I just did a couple of quick internet searches - definitely not thorough - to try to find out what the most views any forum thread in the world has ever had is. This might not be easy to determine. However, no threads I found references to came anywhere near our 1573382 views. I'm thinking about approaching Guiness World Records to see if they can determine whether we might claim to be the most viewed or longest forum thread on the internet. We could be part of a world record. That might give us a bit more exposure. We might even get into some newspapers etc. Worth a shot. Can anyone here find any bigger threads/threads with more views than ours?

Of course any coverage of our story should mention our effort to raise research funding...

[mellivora]

It does say on the Guiness website under publishing etc that:
"We no longer accept any email or postal based records, such as chain letters or similar variations."
I'm not sure if they'd view a forum thread in a similar way but I think its worth finding out...

[kurtosis]

Tried to post a few times yesterday but the forum had problems. Not to worry. I have only observed 1 strong allergic reaction to my sperm in many years and that could have been my diet that day which had lots of niacin, garlic and curry. Long story I have a range of allergies but a severe allergic reaction to my sperm on my skin isn't one of them (like another poster, I've tested the past few weeks) so I've started to think of the allergies as being related to an overall condition of which the POIS lethargy/fatigue symptoms are only one part.
I tried discussing this with different GPs and a few years back I ended up doing one session with a GP who was interested in holistic health care. They weren't recommending homeopathy (which I have an intellectual aversion to, not trying to offend anybody but that's just how it is) but they did suggest I might have a condition known as pyroluria evidenced by a range of symptoms including light sensitivity, inability to tan, lots of white specs on my nails etc. For whatever reasons, I ignored this diagnosis at the time. However, when I read the famous "niacin" post on poiscenter I remembered pyroluria and did some reading, including linus pauling's work on orthomolecular medicine.
The reason I'm mentioning all this is that over the past 3 weeks I've had 4 O's with minimal symptoms and the past few days I've actually felt energetic. Feels a bit odd tbh. The difference is 150 mg of niacin every morning (occasionally 2 50 mg if I haven't flushed with 150) and 2 tablets of ZMA every night. ZMA is Zinc, Magnesium and b6. I take a good bit of vit-c also (~2g / day) and some fish oil with extra DHA and EPO (high in GLA). These are the kinds of supplements that are recommended for pyroluria. Well, I feel pretty good. I started to feel better when I noticed I had started to recall my dreams again. After that I noticed I was becoming more productive in work. This is interesting as many health practitioners dismiss much of orthomolecular medicine and would deny there's any such thing as pyroluria. All I know is that I've had a range of problems which started in mid puberty and coincided with increased frequency of O and 2 months spent recovering from what was described as e-coli poisoning but could have been something else.  I've often wondered over the years what effect that had as I don't remember serious digestive problems before then.
So if anyone else has these symptoms then perhaps they should add GLA, b6, magnesium and zinc supplementation to their diet. My symptoms included lots of white spots on heavily ridged finger and toe nails, digestive discomfort, anxiety, signs of hyperacusis, frequent stitches in my side when I ran as a child, cold hands & feet, paler skin than family members, tiredness, achievement driven by adrenalin then nervous exhaustion, crowded teeth, anxiety, blood relatives with depression or schizoid illnesses, leg tremors & sudden jerky movements, poor dream recall, irritability and memory issues. I was treated for depression with SSRI's and they brought some relief but didn't address any of the underlying cognitive issues.
 I'm guessing this is the same for other POIS sufferers who have had depression? Perhaps the 2 things are related.

[victor.kons]

Hi Kurtosis,

Thank you for your post. Sounds very interesting! Did you tried to do the tests for pyroluria? This is very important I think. The tests sounds pretty easy to do if the lab is easily reachable, so if any POISer could confirm that he actually has pyroluria, it would be definitely serious cause for further investigation.

Thanks,
Victor

[kurtosis]

Thanks Viktor. I was tested before and the doctor said I had it but that was 7 years ago. Going to do the tests again. Ignoring the original diagnosis had more to do with this holistic doctor also recommending acupuncture which I did and found ineffectual. I tried zinc & b6 supplements at the time (with some effect) but it's entirely possible their effect was diminished due to the poor state of my digestive system. My regular GP referred me to a specialist and a colonoscopy confirmed I had flattened villi in my intestines. I went on a special diet which gave me a bit more energy but didn't improve the POIS symptoms. Like many here, I was so worn out that when one avenue of exploration appeared fruitless I confined every idea from that period to the waste bin for a few years.
 
It's a bit more difficult to find a lab to test pyrrholes in the urine in the country where I'm living and even harder to get a GP to request it but I know confirming a diagnosis would be important. This is ironic as alternative healthcare practitioners seem to believe that my ethnic background has a genetic predisposition towards the disease. Let's just say I'm a "Celtic cocktail" as a friend used to joke.

So before I got a retest I just wanted to see if relatively low doses of ZMA had any effect as I was shipped them with a whole bunch of whey protein I ordered. They definitely have.

[gabin]

Below are excerpts from http://nutritioninfo.tripod.com/id19.html
------
During periods of dehydration, histamine insures that these vital organs have enough water to function properly. If enough water is not supplied, it must be taken from within the body. Chronic dehydration can cause histamine to become excessively active. This may result in symptoms that may be mistaken for other disorders such as allergies, asthma, dyspepsia, colitis, constipation, rheumatoid arthritis, and chronic pains in various parts of the body such as migraine headaches.

Another possible complication of dehydration is joint pain. The cartilage in your body, including your joints, is composed mainly of water. As cartilage surfaces glide over one another, some exposed cells become worn and peel away. New cartilage is normally produced to replace the damaged cells. Due to the lack of blood vessels in cartilage, water is needed to transport the nutrients required for maintenance and repair. Dehydration may increase the abrasive damage and delay its repair, resulting in joint pain.

Asthma and allergies can be another indication that the body has increased production of histamine. During chronic dehydration, the body will attempt to conserve water by preventing unnecessary water loss. A large amount of water is normally lost from the lungs as water vapor through expired air. Histamine, which also controls bronchial muscle contractions, may attempt to restrict water loss through expiration by constricting the bronchial muscles.

Depression may be another complication of chronic dehydration. The amino acid tryptophan is required by the brain to produce the neurotransmitter serotonin, which subsequently is needed to make melatonin. An adequate amount of water is required for tryptophan to be transported into the brain. Dehydration may limit the amount of tryptophan available to the brain and to complicate matters, the histamine levels may actually stimulate tryptophan's breakdown in the liver.
--------
I'm investigating on the reasons of why we developed such problems with hystamine production or whatever it is..did anyone had prolonged dehydration due to climate or severe exercise stresses?
There're several sportsmen here (including me in past) and daily I lost about 3-4 litres of water per training. Of course I always replenished myself but probably it was insufficient...
Coffee is a diuretic and few people (John21) mentioned that they got some positive effect from taking it or herbs with diuretic features.