[victor.kons]

Observer, many thanks man, big respect for your courage and everything you did for us!

[demografx]

You know everybody has their "POIS" days so you can expect someone to come on here angry and post and maybe say something they wouldn't really mean to say. 

No!

POIS is no excuse for hurting others!

[John21 (OP)]

This source says no longer than 5 days:
...sorry, you cannot view external links. To see them, please REGISTER or LOGIN
I'm not sure if it's the same product you took.

Yes this is the exact one that I have.  The warning is written on the bottle, it is just very hard to read. It says to consult a physician for use beyond five days. That does indeed sound like caution is warranted, I don't think I'd want to take it long term. It is a good thing that dandelion root works so well in maing me feel good, perhaps the sleep will improve from that alone.

[Vincent M]

ABC Australia are filming a documentary on POIS- The Catalyst ...sorry, you cannot view external links. To see them, please REGISTER or LOGIN which consists on several interviews to people suffering POIS, Doctors investigating this condition and the procedures of skin ***** test and desensitization.

I am going to appear on that program -to be aired maybe on April- and i have already done the interview...(Observer)

That is awesome news, Observer. Thanks for all the effort you put into this. I'm sure everyone else here is very thankful for this contribution of yours.

[GoingCrazy]

You know everybody has their "POIS" days so you can expect someone to come on here angry and post and maybe say something they wouldn't really mean to say. 

No!

POIS is no excuse for hurting others!

Perhaps if i would have seen the 3 vile sentences i would have thought otherwise.  I didn't realize he included personal attacks.

[badgerstripe]

[quote author=badgerstripe
Do users of this forum believe low or high histamine is a cause of POIS? I'm confused. I have always thought high histamine was a problem in allergic reactions.

Many of us including myself believe that POIS is caused by an allergic or auto-immune reaction to some component of our semen. I've found that Claritin and Benadryl, both anti-histamines, relieve the majority of my POIS symptoms when taken about an hour before an orgasm.
[/quote]

Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your comments

I may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.

Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.

It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.

On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.

Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared 
 

[GoingCrazy]

I don't know if anybody has tried this before when I suggested it but I find that doing handstands helps relieve the pressure/pois.  Just standing upside down for about 30 seconds, and doing it about 2 or 3 times.  It helps my pois headache.  Just tell me if anybody has a positive experience with this too.

[martin88]

It is a good thing that dandelion root works so well in maing me feel good, perhaps the sleep will improve from that alone.

Now I sometimes have nausea and headaches in POIS so I tried dandelion root (herbal tea, not tincture) and it did nothing. However I took dandelion leaves in the past and it was helpful for energy. Dandelion is diuretic and also supposed to treat liver, gallblader and kidneys problems.

[daveman]

Do users of this forum believe low or high histamine is a cause of POIS? I'm confused. I have always thought high histamine was a problem in allergic reactions.

Many of us including myself believe that POIS is caused by an allergic or auto-immune reaction to some component of our semen. I've found that Claritin and Benadryl, both anti-histamines, relieve the majority of my POIS symptoms when taken about an hour before an orgasm.

Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your comments

I may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.

Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.

It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.

On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.

Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared 
 

Yes, it is VITAL that the niacin is taken before the orgasm! Hopefully with a flush. I have had results without a flush, but to a lesser degree. Day 1 and 2 are always cleared, but without the flush, days 3 to 5 can appear and/or be worse.

I previously had 9 day sessions. Now, wit flush, maybe half a day! And NO cognitive symptoms or NO day 1 - 2 POIS yuck!

[demografx]

Dave, I'm really happy for you!

And thank you for insisting on rigorous experimentation and solid reporting on this.

Niacin may hold the key to POIS - even for those it doesn't seem to work for - by eventually uncovering some of the mechanics of that mysterious connection between orgasm and horrible, longlasting symptoms!

[GoingCrazy]

It is a good thing that dandelion root works so well in maing me feel good, perhaps the sleep will improve from that alone.

Now I sometimes have nausea and headaches in POIS so I tried dandelion root (herbal tea, not tincture) and it did nothing. However I took dandelion leaves in the past and it was helpful for energy. Dandelion is diuretic and also supposed to treat liver, gallblader and kidneys problems.

Where do you get your headaches?  Mine seem to come from my brainstem, just above where my neck connects to my head.

[badgerstripe]

I believe and I hope that POIS is a lot simpler than what we make of it, at least my pois.  Why certain things like caffeine and nutmeg help me?  Possible over-inflammation?  I hope so.  Sounds a lot better than a sperm allergy. 

I agree that inflammation probably causes most of our symptoms, however I now believe (as many of us here have) this inflammation stems from an allergic reaction to our sperm and semen. This theory makes more sense to me now that all the things that I take to reduce my POIS symptoms are well known for their anti-inflammatory properties.

I drink green tea to reduce my symptoms, but I take fenugreek with it and believe the tea merely enhances the effect of the fenugreek somehow. Perhaps some of the benefit comes from the caffeine, but I used to drink green tea by itself with almost no noticeable effect on my symptoms.

Perhaps you are drinking decaffeinated green tea?  I remember drinking hot chocolate after not drinking it for a while and it had a profound affect.

I personally disagree with the sperm allergy, at least for my POIS, but everybody's entitled to their own opinion.  Just doesn't make sense how my body would be allergic to sperm after having been inside my body for years, and POIS just came in a sudden attack.

"You can see that caffeine also causes the brain's blood vessels to constrict, because it blocks adenosine's ability to open them up. This effect is why some headache medicines like Anacin contain caffeine - if you have a vascular headache, the caffeine will close down the blood vessels and relieve it."

http://www.mcvitamins.com/Health%20Opponents/caffeine.htm [nofollow]

-perhaps my POIS?

And I remember taking excedrin migraine that practically cured my pois, but I was very hyper, perhaps because the caffeine content was 65 mg.  Goody's powder is only 32 mg I believe.

I am pretty convinced by the theory that the sperm allergy may be at least one component in this syndrome as I once rubbed my semen onto the skin of my belly and within about three minutes the skin had flared up into dark red marks which were irritated. It was quite alarming so i havent done this since! I have read here that some believe that the allergic reaction that causes POIS may happen during the passage of the semen through the urethra.

[martin88]

Where do you get your headaches?  Mine seem to come from my brainstem, just above where my neck connects to my head.

For me it starts on the right on the forehead side and can reach the top and both sides when more severe. It's a new symptom linked with bad digestion I think.. Before POIS when I was around 12 I also had headache behind the eyes.

[kurtosis]

That's astonishing. Niacin is definitely having a positive effect on me also. I take it with a separate high strength multi-vitamin, don't want to name the brand. I actually feel pretty damn good right now but the multi-vitamin is very high in Zinc and B6. My twin sister has been tested as deficient in several b vitamins so it's possible that it's a combination of all these supplements. Ya know, if this POIS thing hadn't screwed up my life for years I'd be fascinated by it.

What kind of Niacin are you using?

I have solgar 100s and 250s. Solgar is a very popular brand in health food shops and I just grabbed the first thing I saw on the shelf. It's just niacin, not niacinamide and definitely makes me flush. I've noticed that I require double the usual dose to flush the day after an O.

[kurtosis]

I don't know if anybody has tried this before when I suggested it but I find that doing handstands helps relieve the pressure/pois.  Just standing upside down for about 30 seconds, and doing it about 2 or 3 times.  It helps my pois headache.  Just tell me if anybody has a positive experience with this too.

Both niacin and handstands would increase bloodflow to the head (as far as I can determine from some online research). Seems reasonable also.

[John21 (OP)]

It is a good thing that dandelion root works so well in maing me feel good, perhaps the sleep will improve from that alone.

Now I sometimes have nausea and headaches in POIS so I tried dandelion root (herbal tea, not tincture) and it did nothing. However I took dandelion leaves in the past and it was helpful for energy. Dandelion is diuretic and also supposed to treat liver, gallblader and kidneys problems.

Yes I have tried roasted dandelion tea and I find it to be quite mild, the dandelion capsules have more of an effect, although I still kind of like the bitter tea. From my experience it seems important to drink enought water to make these diuretics effective. Several times I have noticed that I dont get any immediate effect from the capsules until I drink some water, and then it is quite noticable. I'm not really sure why my thinking is less clouded on them, but I am curious to know if they might help with POIS.

[mellivora]

I just did a couple of quick internet searches - definitely not thorough - to try to find out what the most views any forum thread in the world has ever had is. This might not be easy to determine. However, no threads I found references to came anywhere near our 1573382 views. I'm thinking about approaching Guiness World Records to see if they can determine whether we might claim to be the most viewed or longest forum thread on the internet. We could be part of a world record. That might give us a bit more exposure. We might even get into some newspapers etc. Worth a shot. Can anyone here find any bigger threads/threads with more views than ours?

Of course any coverage of our story should mention our effort to raise research funding...

[mellivora]

It does say on the Guiness website under publishing etc that:
"We no longer accept any email or postal based records, such as chain letters or similar variations."
I'm not sure if they'd view a forum thread in a similar way but I think its worth finding out...

[kurtosis]

Tried to post a few times yesterday but the forum had problems. Not to worry. I have only observed 1 strong allergic reaction to my sperm in many years and that could have been my diet that day which had lots of niacin, garlic and curry. Long story I have a range of allergies but a severe allergic reaction to my sperm on my skin isn't one of them (like another poster, I've tested the past few weeks) so I've started to think of the allergies as being related to an overall condition of which the POIS lethargy/fatigue symptoms are only one part.
I tried discussing this with different GPs and a few years back I ended up doing one session with a GP who was interested in holistic health care. They weren't recommending homeopathy (which I have an intellectual aversion to, not trying to offend anybody but that's just how it is) but they did suggest I might have a condition known as pyroluria evidenced by a range of symptoms including light sensitivity, inability to tan, lots of white specs on my nails etc. For whatever reasons, I ignored this diagnosis at the time. However, when I read the famous "niacin" post on poiscenter I remembered pyroluria and did some reading, including linus pauling's work on orthomolecular medicine.
The reason I'm mentioning all this is that over the past 3 weeks I've had 4 O's with minimal symptoms and the past few days I've actually felt energetic. Feels a bit odd tbh. The difference is 150 mg of niacin every morning (occasionally 2 50 mg if I haven't flushed with 150) and 2 tablets of ZMA every night. ZMA is Zinc, Magnesium and b6. I take a good bit of vit-c also (~2g / day) and some fish oil with extra DHA and EPO (high in GLA). These are the kinds of supplements that are recommended for pyroluria. Well, I feel pretty good. I started to feel better when I noticed I had started to recall my dreams again. After that I noticed I was becoming more productive in work. This is interesting as many health practitioners dismiss much of orthomolecular medicine and would deny there's any such thing as pyroluria. All I know is that I've had a range of problems which started in mid puberty and coincided with increased frequency of O and 2 months spent recovering from what was described as e-coli poisoning but could have been something else.  I've often wondered over the years what effect that had as I don't remember serious digestive problems before then.
So if anyone else has these symptoms then perhaps they should add GLA, b6, magnesium and zinc supplementation to their diet. My symptoms included lots of white spots on heavily ridged finger and toe nails, digestive discomfort, anxiety, signs of hyperacusis, frequent stitches in my side when I ran as a child, cold hands & feet, paler skin than family members, tiredness, achievement driven by adrenalin then nervous exhaustion, crowded teeth, anxiety, blood relatives with depression or schizoid illnesses, leg tremors & sudden jerky movements, poor dream recall, irritability and memory issues. I was treated for depression with SSRI's and they brought some relief but didn't address any of the underlying cognitive issues.
 I'm guessing this is the same for other POIS sufferers who have had depression? Perhaps the 2 things are related.

[victor.kons]

Hi Kurtosis,

Thank you for your post. Sounds very interesting! Did you tried to do the tests for pyroluria? This is very important I think. The tests sounds pretty easy to do if the lab is easily reachable, so if any POISer could confirm that he actually has pyroluria, it would be definitely serious cause for further investigation.

Thanks,
Victor

[kurtosis]

Thanks Viktor. I was tested before and the doctor said I had it but that was 7 years ago. Going to do the tests again. Ignoring the original diagnosis had more to do with this holistic doctor also recommending acupuncture which I did and found ineffectual. I tried zinc & b6 supplements at the time (with some effect) but it's entirely possible their effect was diminished due to the poor state of my digestive system. My regular GP referred me to a specialist and a colonoscopy confirmed I had flattened villi in my intestines. I went on a special diet which gave me a bit more energy but didn't improve the POIS symptoms. Like many here, I was so worn out that when one avenue of exploration appeared fruitless I confined every idea from that period to the waste bin for a few years.
 
It's a bit more difficult to find a lab to test pyrrholes in the urine in the country where I'm living and even harder to get a GP to request it but I know confirming a diagnosis would be important. This is ironic as alternative healthcare practitioners seem to believe that my ethnic background has a genetic predisposition towards the disease. Let's just say I'm a "Celtic cocktail" as a friend used to joke.

So before I got a retest I just wanted to see if relatively low doses of ZMA had any effect as I was shipped them with a whole bunch of whey protein I ordered. They definitely have.

[gabin]

Below are excerpts from http://nutritioninfo.tripod.com/id19.html [nofollow]
------
During periods of dehydration, histamine insures that these vital organs have enough water to function properly. If enough water is not supplied, it must be taken from within the body. Chronic dehydration can cause histamine to become excessively active. This may result in symptoms that may be mistaken for other disorders such as allergies, asthma, dyspepsia, colitis, constipation, rheumatoid arthritis, and chronic pains in various parts of the body such as migraine headaches.

Another possible complication of dehydration is joint pain. The cartilage in your body, including your joints, is composed mainly of water. As cartilage surfaces glide over one another, some exposed cells become worn and peel away. New cartilage is normally produced to replace the damaged cells. Due to the lack of blood vessels in cartilage, water is needed to transport the nutrients required for maintenance and repair. Dehydration may increase the abrasive damage and delay its repair, resulting in joint pain.

Asthma and allergies can be another indication that the body has increased production of histamine. During chronic dehydration, the body will attempt to conserve water by preventing unnecessary water loss. A large amount of water is normally lost from the lungs as water vapor through expired air. Histamine, which also controls bronchial muscle contractions, may attempt to restrict water loss through expiration by constricting the bronchial muscles.

Depression may be another complication of chronic dehydration. The amino acid tryptophan is required by the brain to produce the neurotransmitter serotonin, which subsequently is needed to make melatonin. An adequate amount of water is required for tryptophan to be transported into the brain. Dehydration may limit the amount of tryptophan available to the brain and to complicate matters, the histamine levels may actually stimulate tryptophan's breakdown in the liver.
--------
I'm investigating on the reasons of why we developed such problems with hystamine production or whatever it is..did anyone had prolonged dehydration due to climate or severe exercise stresses?
There're several sportsmen here (including me in past) and daily I lost about 3-4 litres of water per training. Of course I always replenished myself but probably it was insufficient...
Coffee is a diuretic and few people (John21) mentioned that they got some positive effect from taking it or herbs with diuretic features.

[Vincent M]

--------
I'm investigating on the reasons of why we developed such problems with hystamine production or whatever it is..did anyone had prolonged dehydration due to climate or severe exercise stresses?
There're several sportsmen here (including me in past) and daily I lost about 3-4 litres of water per training. Of course I always replenished myself but probably it was insufficient...
Coffee is a diuretic and few people (John21) mentioned that they got some positive effect from taking it or herbs with diuretic features.

This might just be the case for me. Before I got POIS I ran track and cross country in high school and I remember sweating way more than anyone else. My shirt would always be completely soaked and after practices I would usually go home and play videogames which I always get easily addicted to so in the midst of my videogame addiction it's possible that I ignored my body's need for water.

[Animus]

Defsync --

It's sad that you cannot wholeheartedly support your comrade in his willingness to have gone public via the TLC program.

You've attempted to diminish someone who had the personal fortitude that you, yourself, did not have when the opportunity was apparently presented to you.

The TLC channel will not be interested in another POIS story. They've covered the topic already, thanks to Animus and his courage!!

As an aside -- the TLC channel and its producers/directors edit their shows to THEIR liking.  NORD has worked with them closely on several episodes (we had nothing to do with the POIS episode -- I wish that I could say we did!). We know that they write their shows with tact and compassion, and provide only as much scientific information as they feel the general public will want. Like all TV shows -- they present what they think will appeal to the largest audience.

Please -- everyone -- think about how your comments might make another person feel.  It's difficult with all the frustration and misery that POIS causes -- but this is a support group -- you all need to boost each other up, not tear each other down.

If a comment generates more heat than light -- then it's not the right comment.

the learning channel

so I was the first person asked for this episode. I said no cause my girlfriend was like NOT A CHANCE IN HELL. Ok. Well, we broke up, and now I look at this episode, and /facepalm repeatedly because its not the sperm (testes) its the seminal fluid (prostate).

i.... apologize my friends, for failing to address POIS properly on camera. Im considering calling TLC and asking them if they have another opportunity available.

raping your own brain via nocturnal emissions that you and 99% of the male population cant control, is a more poignant observation of the severity of this condition

Thank you Nordnurse!
Defsync, yes there are flaws to the show, and particularities to every case. But on the whole I think they did a terrific job presenting the story & info. in a compassionate way. And I did my best to communicate what I went through. I'm happy to say that I am still 100% POIS free, which takes some maintanence with Saw Palmetto, Avodart, testosterone. Unfortunately the show did not mention the importance of the other procedures I had- the surgery to my Prostate, Seminal Vesicles, and Ejaculatory ducts- and chose to focus only on the oriechtomy...  but all were crucial.

[gabin]

--------
I'm investigating on the reasons of why we developed such problems with hystamine production or whatever it is..did anyone had prolonged dehydration due to climate or severe exercise stresses?
There're several sportsmen here (including me in past) and daily I lost about 3-4 litres of water per training. Of course I always replenished myself but probably it was insufficient...
Coffee is a diuretic and few people (John21) mentioned that they got some positive effect from taking it or herbs with diuretic features.

This might just be the case for me. Before I got POIS I ran track and cross country in high school and I remember sweating way more than anyone else. My shirt would always be completely soaked and after practices I would usually go home and play videogames which I always get easily addicted to so in the midst of my videogame addiction it's possible that I ignored my body's need for water.

Yep, my POIS developed in the similar conditions: I was out of school for a few weeks preparing for entrance exams with the following regime: training from 5 to 8, then playing videogames several hours in a raw, then porn when parents were asleep.. I tried to distract myself after my dog died suddenly, the whole year prior to that I abstained from any sort entertainment due to exams and so competitions.. so it was a blend of stress with sorrow with depletion of energy..both physical and psychological.
sorry for the confession, doubt it adds anything to our discussion..

[Animus]

PS- feel free to PM me if you have any questions/ comments- I am open to discuss or explain my surgeries further...
thanks

[Vandemolen3]

I am back at the turn of the tide. I come with good news.

Desensitization plan works for me. I have 40-50% less symptoms.  I used to have 4 days of POIS. Now it is 2 days. And sometimes only 1 day. I began with a dillution of 1/10.000. Then 1/1000, 1/200, 1/70, 1/50, 1/30, 1/15. And today it was 1/5. The good news is that the max was 1/20. Now there was a meeting with allergists in The Netherlands. They said the dillution can be lower. Now the max is 1/2. Almost pure semen. When I went from 1/50 to 1/30 I had pain in my arms for 6 weeks. And I had a red mark on my arm and under my armpit. I thought it was blood-poisoning, because at another hospital an intern took some blood from my arm and she couldn't do it with 1 shot. But the doctor said this was just the reaction of the desensitization. Last time I had no reaction at all from the injection, no little red mark. So that's why today we went to 1/5. And today my arm really hurts again.

The other good news is that the Dutch health insurance are willing to pay for their clients. So that's why a few allergists are willing to do the desensitization. Next week there will be a test of 2 patients of 2 different allergists at the clinic where I go. So hopefully all the POIS-patients in The Netherlands can be helped in 2012 immediately!

[Vandemolen3]

I had a good reason why I avoided this forum. A member insulted and accused me so bad that I said to myself that I will never post again. But the POIS-case is more important! This was trough pm, so I will not give more details. I hoped that this person would apologize, but he didn't. Especially because I am so devoted to get rid of POIS. I took risks, I donated. And then if someone treats me like that, it really hurts. But I don't want to spoil the atmosphere here. So please don't react on this post. I just wanted to give you the reason of my absence. I saw that I had some pm's. I am sorry that I didn't react, but now you know the reason.

[Vandemolen3]

Today I asked the doctor about Vitamin B3. He said that the reason why some of us find relief is because the flush runs out the histamines in the body. And when you have an O. the body will not spread histamines. And because of the histamines we have this allergy reaction. He said that maybe there is a risk the POIS gets worse because of Niacin. And you have to take a higher dose to get the same effect. And a lot of Niacin brings side effects as liver damage. BUT HE DIDN'T DO ANY RESEARCH ABOUT THIS! This is just his opinion. 

Niacin doesn't help me a lot. Maybe 10 to 20% less symptoms. I use 200 mg Niacin. I get a big flush. I do not dare to take more.

[Vandemolen3]

There is something I found out about POIS. There are 2 reasons why we catch a cold or get sinusitis:
1. When you have an allergy attack the defense system of your body is very weak. So a small thing will get you sick.
2. Because of the allergy you get a dry mouth and dry nose. And a dry mouth causes a lot of diseases. Just do some Google search and you will find out. So it is very important to drink a lot after an O. And it is very important to bring fresh air in your home. I know that when in POIS you feel cold. But you have to open the window so the air in your room gets more moist. I also bought a humidifier. I think this helps a bit.

[badgerstripe]

Do users of this forum believe low or high histamine is a cause of POIS? I'm confused. I have always thought high histamine was a problem in allergic reactions.

Many of us including myself believe that POIS is caused by an allergic or auto-immune reaction to some component of our semen. I've found that Claritin and Benadryl, both anti-histamines, relieve the majority of my POIS symptoms when taken about an hour before an orgasm.

Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your comments

I may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.

Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.

It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.

On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.

Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared 
 

Yes, it is VITAL that the niacin is taken before the orgasm! Hopefully with a flush. I have had results without a flush, but to a lesser degree. Day 1 and 2 are always cleared, but without the flush, days 3 to 5 can appear and/or be worse.

I previously had 9 day sessions. Now, wit flush, maybe half a day! And NO cognitive symptoms or NO day 1 - 2 POIS yuck!

Great news!

5 days ago I took 100mg of Niacin and had a flush about an hour or so before an O. I had NO POIS symptoms at all afterwards! No Brainfog, muscle weakness, exhaustion etcetera. This very rarely happens at all. I can think of no other variable that has changed from previously, apart from the Fenugreek which i started taking about ten days ago. If this were to be the answer to my particular form of POIS I would be very pleased.

This is in stark contrast to how I felt a couple of weeks ago when I took the Niacin AFTER the O when I had very bad symptoms. Since my "no POIS O" I had another O. This was 2 days after the previous one which is unusually quick for me, I would normally leave it 3 days at the very least so as not to incapacitate myself. This time i took the Niacin just 20 minutes before the O as i had mislaid the tablets. It was interesting to me that this time i had some POIS symptoms - brainfog, memory problems, itchy eyes, muscle weakness but they were quite mild and had passed within 24 hours. I wonder if these symptoms were present because i was still experiencing some flushing while the O happened and the full quota of histamine was not available?  That seems to make sense from what others have said about Niacin  and Histamine. Alternatively 2 days may have been too soon to have another O after the previous one.

Further to kurtosis's post, I read Carl Pfeiffer's book about nutritional treatment of mental illness 20 years ago as a friend of mine's aunt was involved in research and i was involved professionally in the mental health field. I identified with the symptoms of Histadelia, especially the allergies - Histadelia is associated with HIGH histamine levels. (I understand that there seems to be scientific controversy about the very existence of histadelia). After reading this I took Niacin for a while and it seemed to help with pollen allergy relief but i never took it in a timed way in connection with Orgasm and didnt notice any benefit with POIS.

Thank you daveman and all who have contributed to building up this body of knowledge and experience. I will continue to experiment with this and see if I get continued success with a Niacin flush an hour or so before an O. After this I may leave off the Fenugreek for a while to see if that makes any difference to my (hopefully) continued success.

[demografx]

PS- feel free to PM me if you have any questions/ comments- I am open to discuss or explain my surgeries further...
thanks

ANIMUS, THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND AND GENEROUS SPIRIT!

[gabin]

let's make a poll about the worst possible profession for POIS-sufferer
porn-actor must win without a decent rival, i suppose

[badgerstripe]

let's make a poll about the worst possible profession for POIS-sufferer
porn-actor must win without a decent rival, i suppose

how about air traffic control or brain surgery?

I found this article about prostoglandin and serotonin release with Niacin.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.long [nofollow]

Its not an easy read!

[gabin]

let's make a poll about the worst possible profession for POIS-sufferer
porn-actor must win without a decent rival, i suppose

how about air traffic control or brain surgery?

I found this article about prostoglandin and serotonin release with Niacin.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.long [nofollow]

Its not an easy read!

Yeap, the worst part of POIS is that it can hit anyone (we haven't found any pattern yet though), independently of the who you are at the moment.. It downgrades you to the the level of partly diabled person, while the environment and expectations of people around you remain the same...

[daveman]

Badgerstripe.

I think in your second attempt, you took the niacin too soon before the "O". The greatest effect comes with having the "O" just after the peak of the flush. That is about 10 minutes after the skin stops "burning".

Your case reflects my situation as well. "Practically POIS free", better than 90%. There are probably several here who have tried niacin and it didn't work. Some of those may want to try again, but be very specific in taking it according to the schedule that works. Take enough to flush (greatly affected by when you've last eaten), at least 30 min before "O" (waiting for flush to pass).

There are a few who take it according to "all the rules" for which it doesn't work well, but from what I have seen they are the minority.

[badgerstripe]

daveman

I thought maybe it was too soon after taking the niacin. I am trying again tonight with the 100mg Niacin about an hour before the O, on an empty stomach. I have to say it felt miraculous the other day with no POIS symptoms at all!

What's your understanding of why Niacin works for many people? I had always thought that i suffered from too high levels of histamine, certainly the tree pollen season in spring has me feeling like my body and brain is full of the stuff. That feels like i am in a POIS state ALL of the time. Antihistamines do not get rid of my cognitive symptoms and replace my sinus symtoms with a headache. I've had some success with homeopathic remedies but these dont seem to work all the time.

gabin, i think i have underestimated the social effects of POIS, other people have noticed my memory problems, difficulty in stringing a sentence together, listlessness and "being an airhead" when in POIS. IT has all added to a feeling of shame that I can well do without as it feels like i should be as sharp as other pople seem to be. I have been successful academically (not on POIS days) so there's nothing wrong with the brain. Lets hope that the Niacin continues to work and that for those it doesnt work for a remedy is found soon.

[Green]

let's make a poll about the worst possible profession for POIS-sufferer
porn-actor must win without a decent rival, i suppose

how about air traffic control or brain surgery?

I found this article about prostoglandin and serotonin release with Niacin.

...sorry, you cannot view external links. To see them, please REGISTER or LOGIN

Its not an easy read!

Yeap, the worst part of POIS is that it can hit anyone (we haven't found any pattern yet though), independently of the who you are at the moment.. It downgrades you to the the level of partly diabled person, while the environment and expectations of people around you remain the same...

Cannot agree more. Even my close family struggle to see the differences in me, in POIS and out of. But to me it's a whole different world.

[demografx]

let's make a poll about the worst possible profession for POIS-sufferer
porn-actor must win without a decent rival, i suppose

Acrobat   

[Defsync]

in my research Ive learned there are very rare cases where a pregnant woman can be allergic to her placenta. In some extraordinary cases woman have flatlined from the autoimmune shock after the water breaks.

I wonder if there could be parallels.

[Pharaoh]

Hi Guys.  I hope all is well.  Yesterday I became thoroughly convinced that this is an allergic reaction.  Please let me explain.  I was in bed fantasizing and expectedly became sexually aroused.  I did not even attempt to masturbate and did not ejaculate.  I then went to urinate, and afterwards while squeezing out the last drops, I began squeezing out semen.  I did it a couple of times, and the amounts were about 4 cm in circumference.  The symptoms began soon after.  Now I'm in full POIS, without ejaculating.  Interestingly, the semen must have been in my urethra, but only when I squeezed it out, that is, it emitted and exposed, did I begin feeling the symptoms.  I looked up excessive histamine levels and found this:

"‎When released from basophils and tissue mast cells, the biological effects of histamine include increased vascular permeability of small venules; contraction of bronchial and other smooth muscle; increased gastric, nasal, and lacrimal secretions. A function not normally associated with histamine is the role of neurotransmitter in the brain.1,2 Elevated histamine levels may also be related to certain forms of headache and schizophrenia.3,4,5 A list of the characteristics of patients with low or high blood histamine levels are shown in Table 1 (p.237)." Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 1998

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1998/articles/1998-v13n04-p236.shtml [nofollow]

I'm having an MRI tomorrow to check if there are adenomas, but I think I'm more convinced than ever that this is indeed a severe allergic response. 

What do you guys think?

Happy Holidays!

[demografx]

Hi Guys.  I hope all is well.  Yesterday I became thoroughly convinced that this is an allergic reaction.  Please let me explain.  I was in bed fantasizing and expectedly became sexually aroused.  I did not even attempt to masturbate and did not ejaculate.  I then went to urinate, and afterwards while squeezing out the last drops, I began squeezing out semen.  I did it a couple of times, and the amounts were about 4 cm in circumference.  The symptoms began soon after.  Now I'm in full POIS, without ejaculating.  Interestingly, the semen must have been in my urethra, but only when I squeezed it out, that is, it emitted and exposed, did I begin feeling the symptoms.  I looked up excessive histamine levels and found this:

"‎When released from basophils and tissue mast cells, the biological effects of histamine include increased vascular permeability of small venules; contraction of bronchial and other smooth muscle; increased gastric, nasal, and lacrimal secretions. A function not normally associated with histamine is the role of neurotransmitter in the brain.1,2 Elevated histamine levels may also be related to certain forms of headache and schizophrenia.3,4,5 A list of the characteristics of patients with low or high blood histamine levels are shown in Table 1 (p.237)." Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 1998

...sorry, you cannot view external links. To see them, please REGISTER or LOGIN

I'm having an MRI tomorrow to check if there are adenomas, but I think I'm more convinced than ever that this is indeed a severe allergic response. 

What do you guys think?

Happy Holidays!

Fascinating, Pharaoh! Thank you!

[demografx]

Happy Holidays!

[demografx]

He said that the reason why some of us find relief [with niacin] is because the flush runs out the histamines in the body.

Yes, yes, yes he said it  !
 

I think because the allergy attack is too big. And antihistamines we can take are pills. The only antishistamines that could bring the symptoms down is an injection through the urethra. I talked with my doctor about this, and he said that it could be a solution. But the only problem is, that there is no such thing.

Interresting argument of "local inflammation". But some guys have good results with claritin or others.


Vandermolen, I took the numbers you gave to make a graphic. Once again, if you can have other numbers (like volume injected ) or other protocole details, i'm interrested. But thank you very much and congratulations for all.

B_Jim, thanks for the graphing!

[Quasar]

Hi all,

I've watched the youtube documentary about the guy who had Pois and undergone a surgery. That indicates the problem is coming from the testicles and/or prostate at the moment (or following) the orgasm.

Anyway, one of my main symptoms, besides the scalp tenderness and mental confusion, is the stomach issue. I think there is some issue with the stomach, which also causes dehydration.

It is impressive that just some seconds/minutes following an orgasm, i can feel my hands getting extremely dry. Is this normal? Could you ask to some non-Pois sufferer if their hands get very dry after having sex?

I also can see my facial skin flushing after having an orgasm (i think this is normal), but afterwards, it gets very dry (this may not be so normal). Maybe is the blood leaving the skin?

But it also could be that Pois does harm to the stomach, and the stomach is the organ which hydrates the body.

[demografx]

It is impressive that just some seconds/minutes following an orgasm, i can feel my hands getting extremely dry. Is this normal?

I also can see my facial skin flushing after having an orgasm (i think this is normal), but afterwards, it gets very dry (this may not be so normal). Maybe is the blood leaving the skin?

I am soooo glad to hear this! (Very few others reported this over 4 years).

My fingertips dry up, leaving me with a terrible feeling I can't explain.

My local "King of Dermatology" (as he liked to call himself)  had no explanation for my postorgasmic dermatitis.

He didn't even believe me, so I had to rush in to see him after sex!!! (no, not with him

Quasar, you mentioned blood leaving the skin. I always thought it had to do with "nerve endings".

This is why we need research!!

[Pharaoh]

Thanks Demo.  I managed to download the full article from our university research port.  Have a look at this:

[nofollow]

[CertainlyPOIS]

It is impressive that just some seconds/minutes following an orgasm, i can feel my hands getting extremely dry. Is this normal?

I also can see my facial skin flushing after having an orgasm (i think this is normal), but afterwards, it gets very dry (this may not be so normal). Maybe is the blood leaving the skin?

I am soooo glad to hear this! (Very few others reported this over 4 years).

My fingertips dry up, leaving me with a terrible feeling I can't explain.

My local "King of Dermatology" (as he liked to call himself)  had no explanation for my postorgasmic dermatitis.

He didn't even believe me, so I had to rush in to see him after sex!!! (no, not with him

Quasar, you mentioned blood leaving the skin. I always thought it had to do with "nerve endings".

This is why we need research!!

When i did a home based two day sublingual rush immunotherapy, the first day i got a wierd facial flush i never get with normal ejaculation. i stopped the first day because of the flush. i didnt get it the second day  though. 

[kurtosis]

Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your comments

I may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.

Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.

It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.

On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.

Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared 
 

Yes, it is VITAL that the niacin is taken before the orgasm! Hopefully with a flush. I have had results without a flush, but to a lesser degree. Day 1 and 2 are always cleared, but without the flush, days 3 to 5 can appear and/or be worse.

I previously had 9 day sessions. Now, wit flush, maybe half a day! And NO cognitive symptoms or NO day 1 - 2 POIS yuck!

Great news!

5 days ago I took 100mg of Niacin and had a flush about an hour or so before an O. I had NO POIS symptoms at all afterwards! No Brainfog, muscle weakness, exhaustion etcetera. This very rarely happens at all. I can think of no other variable that has changed from previously, apart from the Fenugreek which i started taking about ten days ago. If this were to be the answer to my particular form of POIS I would be very pleased.

This is in stark contrast to how I felt a couple of weeks ago when I took the Niacin AFTER the O when I had very bad symptoms. Since my "no POIS O" I had another O. This was 2 days after the previous one which is unusually quick for me, I would normally leave it 3 days at the very least so as not to incapacitate myself. This time i took the Niacin just 20 minutes before the O as i had mislaid the tablets. It was interesting to me that this time i had some POIS symptoms - brainfog, memory problems, itchy eyes, muscle weakness but they were quite mild and had passed within 24 hours. I wonder if these symptoms were present because i was still experiencing some flushing while the O happened and the full quota of histamine was not available?  That seems to make sense from what others have said about Niacin  and Histamine. Alternatively 2 days may have been too soon to have another O after the previous one.

Further to kurtosis's post, I read Carl Pfeiffer's book about nutritional treatment of mental illness 20 years ago as a friend of mine's aunt was involved in research and i was involved professionally in the mental health field. I identified with the symptoms of Histadelia, especially the allergies - Histadelia is associated with HIGH histamine levels. (I understand that there seems to be scientific controversy about the very existence of histadelia).

It's cool. We can both get better by using treatments deemed medically ineffective for illnesses that don't exist
At this stage, I'm beyond caring what the established medical community thinks about illnesses such as histadelia and pyroluria. If my getting better was dependent on changing the attitudes of big pharma and "official medicine" to orthomolecular treatments then I'd just give up now. All I know is the niacin + the pyroluric supplementations are working wonders for me. 
Obviously POIS needs further study but managing the problem asap is important for everybody suffering from this.
People trying different solutions for 20 years are in a better position to evaluate whether something is working than somebody who considers themselves a professional skeptic yet will cite papers with flawed methodologies to further their agenda. Just saying, sometimes it pays to suspend your disbelief 

[badgerstripe]

Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your comments

I may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.

Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.

It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.

On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.

Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared 
 

Yes, it is VITAL that the niacin is taken before the orgasm! Hopefully with a flush. I have had results without a flush, but to a lesser degree. Day 1 and 2 are always cleared, but without the flush, days 3 to 5 can appear and/or be worse.

I previously had 9 day sessions. Now, wit flush, maybe half a day! And NO cognitive symptoms or NO day 1 - 2 POIS yuck!

Great news!

5 days ago I took 100mg of Niacin and had a flush about an hour or so before an O. I had NO POIS symptoms at all afterwards! No Brainfog, muscle weakness, exhaustion etcetera. This very rarely happens at all. I can think of no other variable that has changed from previously, apart from the Fenugreek which i started taking about ten days ago. If this were to be the answer to my particular form of POIS I would be very pleased.

This is in stark contrast to how I felt a couple of weeks ago when I took the Niacin AFTER the O when I had very bad symptoms. Since my "no POIS O" I had another O. This was 2 days after the previous one which is unusually quick for me, I would normally leave it 3 days at the very least so as not to incapacitate myself. This time i took the Niacin just 20 minutes before the O as i had mislaid the tablets. It was interesting to me that this time i had some POIS symptoms - brainfog, memory problems, itchy eyes, muscle weakness but they were quite mild and had passed within 24 hours. I wonder if these symptoms were present because i was still experiencing some flushing while the O happened and the full quota of histamine was not available?  That seems to make sense from what others have said about Niacin  and Histamine. Alternatively 2 days may have been too soon to have another O after the previous one.

Further to kurtosis's post, I read Carl Pfeiffer's book about nutritional treatment of mental illness 20 years ago as a friend of mine's aunt was involved in research and i was involved professionally in the mental health field. I identified with the symptoms of Histadelia, especially the allergies - Histadelia is associated with HIGH histamine levels. (I understand that there seems to be scientific controversy about the very existence of histadelia).

It's cool. We can both get better by using treatments deemed medically ineffective for illnesses that don't exist
At this stage, I'm beyond caring what the established medical community thinks about illnesses such as histadelia and pyroluria. If my getting better was dependent on changing the attitudes of big pharma and "official medicine" to orthomolecular treatments then I'd just give up now. All I know is the niacin + the pyroluric supplementations are working wonders for me. 
Obviously POIS needs further study but managing the problem asap is important for everybody suffering from this.
People trying different solutions for 20 years are in a better position to evaluate whether something is working than somebody who considers themselves a professional skeptic yet will cite papers with flawed methodologies to further their agenda. Just saying, sometimes it pays to suspend your disbelief 

I agree Kurtosis. Having suffered from allergies to dairy and gluten which i have been told even recently by medical people don't exist (20 years ago it was even worse) I have little time for those who won't even agree that you are suffering symptoms or that its all in your mind. After 20 years of trial and error it becomes very clear that certain things cause symptoms and other things relieve these symptoms and its patronising and downright insulting when you are told that they "know better" or that you are "just anxious". When it comes to the biochemistry of it there is certainly a debate to be had and research to be undertaken of course.

Sadly I have early experience of the medical profession being very wrong - for the first seven years of my life i had agonising pain periodically from a constricted ureter (between the kidney and bladder). The medics didnt know what was wrong and accused me of making the pain up for attention and my mother of being overprotective. It took a locum General Practitioner to realise what this problem was after i was bent double and continuously vomiting and i was taken into hospital for a total of nine weeks and the ureter replaced with a polythene one. My "imaginary" problem was solved!

I'm trying not to make a career of having unexplained illnesses  but after a brief battle with the doctor about allergies I have found it easier to research nutrition, complementary therapies and supplements for myself and this has mostly been effective. I haven't even bothered to report POIS to my G.P. (that's the family doctor for those not familiar with this U.K. term). My level of health and fitness is very good otherwise and medical checkups find BP, cholesterol etc. to be normal and I am generally judged to be 8 - 10 years younger than i am by those who don't know me. I am very glad to have found this forum and learn from the experience of those who actually know what they are talking about  - the people who have the condition themselves.
Phew! I didn't intend to write an essay tonight but there you are!