Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline Habibou

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15600 on: 10/02/2012 20:13:20 »
answers :)
Yes, at the very least there's enough evidence to look deeper. If it were just one that was on the low side, maybe not, but since there are so many related ALL below, and some well below.

Who at kind of a doctor will you go to, and, the same one who prescribed the tests? Also, you may expect these kinds of readings from CFS, which you have already been diagnosed with right?

BTW, you are in the group that doesn't get relief from niacin, right?

Yes, I have CFS and I do not react to Niacin :) I will probably start a neuroleptic with a psychiatre in pharmacology who can treat "idiopathic fatigue"

Did you get cfc before pois or pois cfc.   
Did your doctor say you have cfc because he cant wrap his head around,pois.
it all sounds to much of a coincidence

From what I remember, he was diagnosed with CFS as a result of POIS  by quite a reputable doctor who knows POIS.

POIS can drain the system and come to produce CFS.

Finally, I got my urine test about neurotransmitters , 10 hours after an O :

3.54 creatinin
dopamin          91.50                    (170-256)
0.4 dopac          0.4                      (0.70-4)
hva                   1.90                     (2.43-5.20)
noradrenalin     10.30                     (15-30)
mhpg                     1.5                   (1.3-4.15)
vma                   1.60                    (2.10-3.80)
adrenalin            0.98                   (1.27-6.10)
serotonin               62.40                (61.50-116)
hiaa                        2.30                 (2-4.20)
hva/5htaa =        0.83                   (1.25-2.56)

We can notice that many standards are lower than the low average which means a lot for me ! As you can understand, I was very glad to discover so many abnormalities  :D :o

Wow Habibou! Have you talked with your doctor about the results? It's surprising that you are low in many neurotransmitters: Dopamine, Noradrenaline, Adrenaline. Serotonin is also low, but within the average.
This does suggest the catecholamine depletion hypothesis might have some merit.
Have you ever taken L-Tyrosine and, if so, what effect did it have?

No, I never tried but I should probably ! I will see what my doctor suggests...
Yes, I was diagnosed CFS in France after Dr Goldmeier checking and it was after some years of POIS and a lack of sleep for a period of 4 months...


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Offline 0002ppdnuos

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15601 on: 11/02/2012 02:12:39 »
I've been experiencing most of the symptoms mentioned ever since my puberty.
I'm rather excited that Prof. Dr. Waldinger have had some finding by now.
Hopefully, there will be cure to rid us of our suffering in near future.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15602 on: 11/02/2012 10:19:28 »
answers :)
Yes, at the very least there's enough evidence to look deeper. If it were just one that was on the low side, maybe not, but since there are so many related ALL below, and some well below.

Who at kind of a doctor will you go to, and, the same one who prescribed the tests? Also, you may expect these kinds of readings from CFS, which you have already been diagnosed with right?

BTW, you are in the group that doesn't get relief from niacin, right?

Yes, I have CFS and I do not react to Niacin :) I will probably start a neuroleptic with a psychiatre in pharmacology who can treat "idiopathic fatigue"

Did you get cfc before pois or pois cfc.   
Did your doctor say you have cfc because he cant wrap his head around,pois.
it all sounds to much of a coincidence

From what I remember, he was diagnosed with CFS as a result of POIS  by quite a reputable doctor who knows POIS.

POIS can drain the system and come to produce CFS.

Finally, I got my urine test about neurotransmitters , 10 hours after an O :

3.54 creatinin
dopamin          91.50                    (170-256)
0.4 dopac          0.4                      (0.70-4)
hva                   1.90                     (2.43-5.20)
noradrenalin     10.30                     (15-30)
mhpg                     1.5                   (1.3-4.15)
vma                   1.60                    (2.10-3.80)
adrenalin            0.98                   (1.27-6.10)
serotonin               62.40                (61.50-116)
hiaa                        2.30                 (2-4.20)
hva/5htaa =        0.83                   (1.25-2.56)

We can notice that many standards are lower than the low average which means a lot for me ! As you can understand, I was very glad to discover so many abnormalities  :D :o

Wow Habibou! Have you talked with your doctor about the results? It's surprising that you are low in many neurotransmitters: Dopamine, Noradrenaline, Adrenaline. Serotonin is also low, but within the average.
This does suggest the catecholamine depletion hypothesis might have some merit.
Have you ever taken L-Tyrosine and, if so, what effect did it have?

No, I never tried but I should probably ! I will see what my doctor suggests...
Yes, I was diagnosed CFS in France after Dr Goldmeier checking and it was after some years of POIS and a lack of sleep for a period of 4 months...


The thing I noticed about L-tyrosine is that it's tricky to get the dose right. Too much and you feel anxious & aggressive. Too little and the effects don't last long enough. Repeated supplementation with just L-Tyrosine also doesn't seem to work as, I think, it leads to depletion of other vitamins and nutrients or may even lead to catecholamine spikes which are also problematic.  About a year ago I was wondering if POIS (even if I didn't know what to call it then) had some relation to Phenylketonuria. This seems odd as PKU when it afflicts from birth needs to be corrected to avoid mental retardation. I wondered if there was some "switch" after an O that was seriously disrupting our catecholamine cycle.

Another thing I noticed is that if I measure my performance on games or puzzles requiring concentration then the "right dose" of L-Tyrosine gives huge improvements. But it's a bit of a blunt instrument. Basically you're trying to effect a serious change (with a tyrosine hammer) to a rather delicate catecholamine cycle because something else is broken due to POIS, even if I'm still not sure what POIS is.

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15603 on: 11/02/2012 10:48:13 »
Hello all. I am currently taking niacin before orgasm and chlorella, vitamin C, And Fish oil afterwards. I can't have more than 1 orgasm a week without terrible symptoms. My symptoms have been severely cognitive to the point where I have been diagnosed with everything from depression to schizophrenia. My POIS is also consistent with the better days being after the normal POIS period. The weird thing is that now, with these products, I have become better in the first few days after orgasm, but after a few days I begin to return to my constant POIS. So now I need an orgasm every few weeks to stay productive. Its almost like that vulnerable period after orgasm gives me an opportunity to supply my body and brain with the proper supplies but it soon runs out or something.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has any questions for me I would be happy to help.

We won't give up,

Jon.

I've felt the same, in that somehow the niacin allows my body to supply itself with the proper supplies, but it's only if I don't quite get the flush that the effect wears off after a few days.

So it seems like, a normal person has the capacity to produce these "supplies" under a heavier load like orgasm, but with POIS, our system can't keep up. Niacin provides some "nutrient" that bolsters our capacity to produce those "supplies", but if we don't get quite enough, the "supplies" run out after a few days anyways.

Perhaps you would have to take a little more niacin. Do you get the flush? They say that the niacin is in the system for about 6 hrs. So maybe you could take enough to get the flush, let it pass, and then take some more for a second flush. Just a thought.

I don't know if you would have to take more or less on the second flush.

A member on the other forum cu would stay tan only get a "buffered" type of niacin, it's not a no'flush compound but real niacin just "buffered" to release slowly. You take 500mg, but it releases less than the flush threshold through the whole period. If you took 1000mg, you might reach flush threshold, but you would stay there for a long time.

So for these "different cases" we need to find some way to make them effective. What we don't know is, if you've reached a flush, let's say with 100mg, how much would you have to take once the flush passes to achieve a second flush. Just 50? Or would you need more because the system is already "sensitized". I have this doubt because if I've taken 100 let's say and don't quite get the flush, I've tried taking another 50 to 75, and it doesn't bring me over. Like having niacin in the system already makes me need even more.
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15604 on: 11/02/2012 10:54:45 »
Hello all. I am currently taking niacin before orgasm and chlorella, vitamin C, And Fish oil afterwards. I can't have more than 1 orgasm a week without terrible symptoms. My symptoms have been severely cognitive to the point where I have been diagnosed with everything from depression to schizophrenia. My POIS is also consistent with the better days being after the normal POIS period. The weird thing is that now, with these products, I have become better in the first few days after orgasm, but after a few days I begin to return to my constant POIS. So now I need an orgasm every few weeks to stay productive. Its almost like that vulnerable period after orgasm gives me an opportunity to supply my body and brain with the proper supplies but it soon runs out or something.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has any questions for me I would be happy to help.

We won't give up,

Jon.
Hi Jon,
I discussed abstinence with my doctor and they said something similar to the link here
http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/08/cz_af_1008health.html
It's not good for you in the long run and can contribute to depression. I noticed that abstinence during my college years led to obsessive behavior surrounding my studies that, while it benefited my grades, didn't endear me to anybody. This is why I believe that abstinence isn't the cure for POIS and probably needs medical supervision including anti-depressants.

Can I make a suggestion re. the supplementation, as something that I've found myself. When you feel the supplementation has helped you feel better after an O, reduce it. It's a great O-recovery formula but the dosages of b3 & b6 in particular is quite high with that supplementation regimen.

On non-Pois days (2 days after O) I'm skipping the multi-vit, taking just the chlorella and spirulina powder in a single glass of water and 2 caps of krill oil (morning and night). I might take 1.5g of vitamin c with this if I feel I need it.
I've also scaled back to ZMA on alternate nights. If I have an O I'll take it that night but otherwise it's alternating. If I had the smaller caps of ZMA I'd probably alternate 1 versus 2 caps / night.

And I've increased my exercise to a long walk every day and a 30 minute workout every 2nd day. The exercise helps alleviate depression and POIS made me feel very depressed. I noticed that even though the supplementation was helping the symptoms greatly I was still spending lots of time thinking about POIS symptoms, cognitive performance etc. This can be really destructive as you're constantly waiting for the POIS bogeyman to appear. Perhaps CBT would help. But so far, I feel a lot better than I did 6 months ago. More productive, brighter outlook etc.

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15605 on: 11/02/2012 11:08:11 »
Kurtosis,

Is L-tyrosine a perscription "drug/element". How is it bought, what form does it take, pill, capsule?

How do you get it, or when is it recommended usually? etc.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15606 on: 11/02/2012 11:23:59 »
Hello all. I am currently taking niacin before orgasm and chlorella, vitamin C, And Fish oil afterwards. I can't have more than 1 orgasm a week without terrible symptoms. My symptoms have been severely cognitive to the point where I have been diagnosed with everything from depression to schizophrenia. My POIS is also consistent with the better days being after the normal POIS period. The weird thing is that now, with these products, I have become better in the first few days after orgasm, but after a few days I begin to return to my constant POIS. So now I need an orgasm every few weeks to stay productive. Its almost like that vulnerable period after orgasm gives me an opportunity to supply my body and brain with the proper supplies but it soon runs out or something.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has any questions for me I would be happy to help.

We won't give up,

Jon.
Hi Jon,
I discussed abstinence with my doctor and they said something similar to the link here
http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/08/cz_af_1008health.html
It's not good for you in the long run and can contribute to depression. I noticed that abstinence during my college years led to obsessive behavior surrounding my studies that, while it benefited my grades, didn't endear me to anybody. This is why I believe that abstinence isn't the cure for POIS and probably needs medical supervision including anti-depressants.

Can I make a suggestion re. the supplementation, as something that I've found myself. When you feel the supplementation has helped you feel better after an O, reduce it. It's a great O-recovery formula but the dosages of b3 & b6 in particular is quite high with that supplementation regimen.

On non-Pois days (2 days after O) I'm skipping the multi-vit, taking just the chlorella and spirulina powder in a single glass of water and 2 caps of krill oil (morning and night). I might take 1.5g of vitamin c with this if I feel I need it.
I've also scaled back to ZMA on alternate nights. If I have an O I'll take it that night but otherwise it's alternating. If I had the smaller caps of ZMA I'd probably alternate 1 versus 2 caps / night.

And I've increased my exercise to a long walk every day and a 30 minute workout every 2nd day. The exercise helps alleviate depression and POIS made me feel very depressed. I noticed that even though the supplementation was helping the symptoms greatly I was still spending lots of time thinking about POIS symptoms, cognitive performance etc. This can be really destructive as you're constantly waiting for the POIS bogeyman to appear. Perhaps CBT would help. But so far, I feel a lot better than I did 6 months ago. More productive, brighter outlook etc.

Agreed, it's a matter of knowing which does what.

The b3-b6 is only effective just before orgasm, and taking it regularly just lowers your threshold to it's effectiveness, so it's best to bolster pre-orgasm, similar to what you do with the ZMA as well.

I sure hope our surveys will clarify some of these things, zeroing in on when and how the different suppliments and remedies should be taken.

Please it would be appreciated if you could all go to http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=313.0 with any suggestions as to survey material. The next survey will be a niacin survey. This survey is being prepared with the help of a very well known Dr. friend of POIS, one who I  hope will be a potential applicant for our research grant (BTW this does not pre-suppose ANY particular theory for the cause of POIS, just shedding light on why niacin seems to help).

There are so many other things that help, and some things  help more for some people, other things for others. The surveys HOPEFULLY will try to clarify, perhaps separate POIS into groups.... who knows.
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15607 on: 11/02/2012 13:35:30 »
Kurtosis,

Is L-tyrosine a perscription "drug/element". How is it bought, what form does it take, pill, capsule?

How do you get it, or when is it recommended usually? etc.



Hi Daveman.
No, it's a widely available amino acid supplement. In combination with other proteins and vitamins It can be found in dairy products and for vegetarians it can be gotten from Spirulina & Chlorella. Whey protein which is commonly used by body builders is especially rich in tyrosine but there's something different about taking it as a separate supplement. It has a more immediate effect.
It's sold as a supplement in many many health food shops. I travel around a bit and I've seen it in the US, Canada and Europe. If you can't get it in a health food shop near you then I suggest buying online. It's also cheap.
I wish it was available as powder form or smaller caps as 500mg / day is just too much in my experience. 4 days in and I'm fit to throttle people :) I believe about 200 mg/day would be ideal for me. I'm just warning you in advance that this made me feel very irritable (perhaps over emotional) and it should be taken earlier in the day rather than near bed time as it can cause insomnia.
Have a look at http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/proteins.html

Another thing I've done is changed my eating habits. I often felt the need for carbohydrate-rich comfort foods in the morning. Now I make sure I get protein from algae, meat or fish for my first meal.
The wikipedia page on catecholamines is comprehensive and describes the role of Tyrosine in their creation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catecholamine

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15608 on: 11/02/2012 13:41:15 »
Actually Now Foods do an L-Tyrosine powder. Might try it myself as then it's possible to vary the dose rather than the one size doesn't fit all 500mg capsules.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15609 on: 11/02/2012 14:16:20 »
While I'm still nattering away about this :), the study that turned me onto the idea that spirulina could be useful in treating an illness which leads to (or stems from) catecholamine depletion was http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16176814
Spirulina is very high in tyrosine but also contains a range of vitamins and other interesting nutrients like GLA, found in colostrum. As a hypothesis test I started taking it with Chlorella twice a week. I've upped that a bit now to every other day.

The scientist who has done the most interesting research, imho, in the area of supplementation for neurological repair is Dr. Paula Bickford, who is a professor in the Center of Excellence for Aging and Brain Repair, University of South Florida. It would be interesting to see if she'd have any interest in researching POIS and/or POIS treatments.

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Offline ridohu

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15610 on: 11/02/2012 23:01:31 »
Hi everyone,

          I just wanted to share my story on this topic. My doctors have had a hard time differentiating pain from injuries sustained in the Army and this illness. I have had some of these symptoms since the age of 24. I am 30 now. I always here you are two young for this illness and others such as my gallbladder etc. I just always reply with are chilren to young for cancer?

          With that said I differ a little from others with this illness as I am a sex addict. I suffer from depression, anxiety, fatigue, and memory loss constantly. After release I experience warmth, fatigue, burning eyes, weird vision, pain, and nausea which sometimes leads to vomitting. I have always thought this was normal until recently hearing of this illness.

My other illnesses:
6 deteriorated vertebrae from my neck to lower back.
Bad ankles
hypogonadism
Gout
anxiety
depression

Surgeries:
Appendectomy
Gallbladder removal
Wrist surgery
knee surgery
Ankle reconstruction

         For myself I found a little relief with Xanax before intercourse for most symptoms. Leaving me with just pain and a little fatigue. My wife does not like how long it takes to release with taking the pills. For the most part I just deal with it. I have a hard time getting out of bed in the morning and sometimes sleep for 16 hours.

I just wanted to share my story.
Rich

 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15611 on: 11/02/2012 23:58:25 »
ridohu, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!  We believe that 2012 is POIS' Breakthrough Year! We hope to launch serious POIS Medical Research! A great time to be here, ridohu!




**(If you have any technical questions, please feel free to PM (private message) Daveman or me -- go towards the end of this welcome message (after the 5 available research articles are described) for instuctions on how to send PM. We'll be happy to explain!)***


If you haven't already done so, but would like to like to join the new forum,  send "daveman" a PM here at the Naked Science Forum -- "daveman".  He'll reply to you.


Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
Just click HERE first, and then look for "CHAT" button towards top of page, 6th button to your right!


Our new POIS Forum - architectural genius: "daveman" - for detailed subject-by-subject discussion!
http://www.POISCenter.com/forums/index.php
Our 4-year-old POIS thread here at Naked Science Forum will also always remain open for newcomers, for general unstructured discussion, and historical research of the 10,000+ postings here since 2007.

The Learning Channel's (TLC)  feature TV presentation on POIS, featuring our member here at this forum, "Animus". It was aired on May 22, 2011. Here is a link to the YouTube file for the POIS  TV documentary, "Desperate Measures":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sdaR18vw1s

Our POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

The POIS Information Website is home to the famous POIS Forum Compendium, written by "Pyropeach", and contains theories already discussed here and treatments that have both worked and failed.

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g


Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome "POIS": Case report

Authors:
Abdalla M Attia*, Magda H Al-Ziny, Hossam A Yasien
*Corresponding author: Andrology Unit, Minoufiya University, Shibin El Kom, Eygpt

For more info, check out emi_b's  SMF POIS thread:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=191.0;topicseen


Available Upon Request:

1. and 2. POIS Research Studies, 2011

These 2 papers reveal Dr. Waldinger's POIS autoimmune hypothesis and suggest one possible avenue of treatment.

3. First POIS Research Study, 2002

We have a copy of the first formal medical investigation on POIS by Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger,MD,PhD, and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

   
4. Recent POIS Research Study, 2010

CASE REPORT
Postorgasm Illness Syndrome - A Spectrum of Illnesses
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg316781#msg316781


5. British Medical Journal Case Report, 2010

Case study by Dr. Selwyn Dexter of a patient with a headache-featured POIS symptom treated with progesterone/norethisterone.
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2010/bcr.10.2009.2359.short?rss=1


How to get any or all of the above 5 studies: send me or "daveman" a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and we'll send you back the PDF(s).

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapeutic community. All of this information can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT 'ALL IN OUR HEADS'! "

It can be very  helpful to you when dealing with medical professionals to point out the
POIS' official listing, as recognized by the
National Institutes for Health (NIH), Office of Rare Diseases Research
:


And in Europe: Orphanet now lists POIS on their website! - Click here!

POIS also appears in credible medical sources such as the Journal of Sexual Medicine (Dr. Waldinger's study), British Medical Journal and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For over 4 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 200 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, research on an additional 200 sufferers elsewhere on the internet, plus nearly 1,500,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!



SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: more than 4 years' worth of posts (over  10,000 posts!) from 200+ Forum members, and an additional 200 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
nocturnal emission POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 740 results came up for "nocturnal emission" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.




« Last Edit: 12/02/2012 04:47:52 by demografx »

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Offline Scotty9193

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15612 on: 12/02/2012 05:06:17 »
I'm currently a premedical student and I was interested in the possibility of doing some basic research on POIS and maybe presenting it in the future (a few years down the road). In order to understand POIS I really want to look at possible mechanisms of action. In order to do that, I need to gather data on a few things:

Do you have any food allergies? (If you 'think' you may don't list them)

If so, what are some of the symptoms you experience if you ingest these foods?

Of these foods, which do you actively avoid?

What are your acute POIS symptoms?

How long do they last?

Are you undergoing any treatments (herbal, medical, abstinence, etc.)?

Are they effective?

Have you previously undergone therapy? If so, how effective were they, why did you discontinue use?

Do you have any of the following conditions: IBS, Celiacs Disease, Graves Disease, Chronic Fatigue unrelated to POIS, mental illness, any   
autoimmune conditions (including known environmental allergies)? Please be sure to label which of these are self diagnosed and have been diagnosed by a physician?

If you know, do you commonly experience low blood sugar after a bout of POIS? Dizziness? What happens to your appetite after a during an episode?

Have you been diagnosed with any major illnesses, both acute and chronic? (Pneumonia, Asthma, Diabetes, etc.)

Any other information you'd like to include

Thanks I'm looking forward to your responses!

I also posted this on POIS Center if you'd prefer to answer there: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=322.msg4034#msg4034

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15613 on: 12/02/2012 07:54:54 »
Rich -
Welcome to the forum.  I'm young like you, and also have nagging problems that few ppl under the age of 40 deal with.
I think you've got me beat though.

Scotty - I think my answers to most of your questions are negative, but i'll try to PM you with a more formal response than that tomorrow.  Thank you for your interest.
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15614 on: 12/02/2012 12:52:21 »
I'm currently a premedical student and I was interested in the possibility of doing some basic research on POIS and maybe presenting it in the future (a few years down the road). In order to understand POIS I really want to look at possible mechanisms of action. In order to do that, I need to gather data on a few things:

Do you have any food allergies? (If you 'think' you may don't list them)

If so, what are some of the symptoms you experience if you ingest these foods?

Of these foods, which do you actively avoid?

What are your acute POIS symptoms?

How long do they last?

Are you undergoing any treatments (herbal, medical, abstinence, etc.)?

Are they effective?

Have you previously undergone therapy? If so, how effective were they, why did you discontinue use?

Do you have any of the following conditions: IBS, Celiacs Disease, Graves Disease, Chronic Fatigue unrelated to POIS, mental illness, any   
autoimmune conditions (including known environmental allergies)? Please be sure to label which of these are self diagnosed and have been diagnosed by a physician?

If you know, do you commonly experience low blood sugar after a bout of POIS? Dizziness? What happens to your appetite after a during an episode?

Have you been diagnosed with any major illnesses, both acute and chronic? (Pneumonia, Asthma, Diabetes, etc.)

Any other information you'd like to include

Thanks I'm looking forward to your responses!

I also posted this on POIS Center if you'd prefer to answer there: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=322.msg4034#msg4034

Good questions. It would be best to try to get the answers to these questions and similar ones into one place. The link above would be a good start and of course... ta-dah! the surveys. I can work with you Scotty at producing the surveys you need. That way the information will be useful for all of us.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15615 on: 12/02/2012 18:18:13 »
Please, take a look at this: http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/antisperm-antibody-test

BTW, properly speaking, Pois is an Autoimmune disease (allergy to ourselfs). Plain allergies are only related to outside substances...

I think the skin ***** test is a useful tool, but shouldn't we also, in general, be doing the "Antisperm Antibody Test" they usually do to women? I mean, it is a test that is available right now, everywhere, the only difference would be that they would have to take the blood sample from ourselfs, not from the woman.

"An antisperm antibody test looks for special proteins (antibodies) that fight against a man's sperm in blood, vaginal fluids (not the case), or semen. "



I second Quasar's point -- if this antisperm antibody test is already readily available (usually performed for women), why haven't we tried to see how we POIS-sufferers respond to it?

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15616 on: 12/02/2012 21:39:04 »
Please, take a look at this: http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/antisperm-antibody-test

BTW, properly speaking, Pois is an Autoimmune disease (allergy to ourselfs). Plain allergies are only related to outside substances...

I think the skin ***** test is a useful tool, but shouldn't we also, in general, be doing the "Antisperm Antibody Test" they usually do to women? I mean, it is a test that is available right now, everywhere, the only difference would be that they would have to take the blood sample from ourselfs, not from the woman.

"An antisperm antibody test looks for special proteins (antibodies) that fight against a man's sperm in blood, vaginal fluids (not the case), or semen. "



I second Quasar's point -- if this antisperm antibody test is already readily available (usually performed for women), why haven't we tried to see how we POIS-sufferers respond to it?

Just in case there is one of the "famous friends of POIS doctors" who does those tests. I can't remember which one, not sure enough to mention a name, don't want to give credit to the wrong doctor. But we have had a few members, at least two I think, that have done those tests.

Again. another reason to get all our information organized onto one space.

Also, just in case, many, many men have sperm antibodies. A great percentage of men with vasectomies have them. They don't present a problem until sperm crosses the blood barrier.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15617 on: 12/02/2012 22:17:11 »
My Primary physician has recently prescribed me Meloxicam, a 24-hr Anti-inflammatory.  Yes, I understand the dangers of a over using NSAIDs, but I'm young and taking them in conjunction with pepcid, so I'm willing to take the risk for now.

I've been taking it for 3 days now and feel a good amount better.  I know the forum has explored NSAIDs in the past.  I've searched NSF for info and spent 30 mins reading posts, but there are too many.

Daveman, Demo, other long-time members - can you give me a summary as to people's past experiences with these 24-hr NSAIDs?
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline Quasar

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15618 on: 13/02/2012 00:52:50 »
Please, take a look at this: http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/antisperm-antibody-test

BTW, properly speaking, Pois is an Autoimmune disease (allergy to ourselfs). Plain allergies are only related to outside substances...

I think the skin ***** test is a useful tool, but shouldn't we also, in general, be doing the "Antisperm Antibody Test" they usually do to women? I mean, it is a test that is available right now, everywhere, the only difference would be that they would have to take the blood sample from ourselfs, not from the woman.

"An antisperm antibody test looks for special proteins (antibodies) that fight against a man's sperm in blood, vaginal fluids (not the case), or semen. "



I second Quasar's point -- if this antisperm antibody test is already readily available (usually performed for women), why haven't we tried to see how we POIS-sufferers respond to it?

Just in case there is one of the "famous friends of POIS doctors" who does those tests. I can't remember which one, not sure enough to mention a name, don't want to give credit to the wrong doctor. But we have had a few members, at least two I think, that have done those tests.

Again. another reason to get all our information organized onto one space.

Also, just in case, many, many men have sperm antibodies. A great percentage of men with vasectomies have them. They don't present a problem until sperm crosses the blood barrier.



Tomorrow if i have time i'll create a thread for this in the other froum. It would be interesting to find those 2 members.

You are right, a lot of men with vasectomies have them. But, it would be great to know if Pois members (those that didn't get a vasectomy) do have Antisperm Antibodies. I mean, us, like "normal" people, shouldn't have those Antibodies. If a high % of us have those antibodies, it could prove the Autoimmune theory, and that we have a leakage somewhere.

So, it goes to my list of tests i want to do, together with the skin p-r-i-c-k test too, of course.

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15619 on: 13/02/2012 12:03:14 »
Please, take a look at this: http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/antisperm-antibody-test

BTW, properly speaking, Pois is an Autoimmune disease (allergy to ourselfs). Plain allergies are only related to outside substances...

I think the skin ***** test is a useful tool, but shouldn't we also, in general, be doing the "Antisperm Antibody Test" they usually do to women? I mean, it is a test that is available right now, everywhere, the only difference would be that they would have to take the blood sample from ourselfs, not from the woman.

"An antisperm antibody test looks for special proteins (antibodies) that fight against a man's sperm in blood, vaginal fluids (not the case), or semen. "



I second Quasar's point -- if this antisperm antibody test is already readily available (usually performed for women), why haven't we tried to see how we POIS-sufferers respond to it?

Just in case there is one of the "famous friends of POIS doctors" who does those tests. I can't remember which one, not sure enough to mention a name, don't want to give credit to the wrong doctor. But we have had a few members, at least two I think, that have done those tests.

Again. another reason to get all our information organized onto one space.

Also, just in case, many, many men have sperm antibodies. A great percentage of men with vasectomies have them. They don't present a problem until sperm crosses the blood barrier.



Tomorrow if i have time i'll create a thread for this in the other froum. It would be interesting to find those 2 members.

You are right, a lot of men with vasectomies have them. But, it would be great to know if Pois members (those that didn't get a vasectomy) do have Antisperm Antibodies. I mean, us, like "normal" people, shouldn't have those Antibodies. If a high % of us have those antibodies, it could prove the Autoimmune theory, and that we have a leakage somewhere.

So, it goes to my list of tests i want to do, together with the skin p-r-i-c-k test too, of course.

We could do that here: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=313.0
Or here: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?board=7.0
or if it's specific to just the anti-body tests here: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?board=9.0

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15620 on: 13/02/2012 12:27:09 »
My Primary physician has recently prescribed me Meloxicam, a 24-hr Anti-inflammatory.  Yes, I understand the dangers of a over using NSAIDs, but I'm young and taking them in conjunction with pepcid, so I'm willing to take the risk for now.

I've been taking it for 3 days now and feel a good amount better.  I know the forum has explored NSAIDs in the past.  I've searched NSF for info and spent 30 mins reading posts, but there are too many.

Daveman, Demo, other long-time members - can you give me a summary as to people's past experiences with these 24-hr NSAIDs?

Hi B_Daniel,

24Hr NSAIDs specifically I don't have any recollection, as you say there have been so many mentioned. Some may have been 24 hr. and I didn't know.

There are stronger and milder, longer term and shorter. All depends on the particular mix.

They have secondary effects on stomach, liver and kidneys, but most of those are seen after extended and heavier doses.

I had to stop and give my system a break. (I'm older than you, and probably taken more than you). And now can take one from time to time when I need it.

With the niacin, I saw something interesting. The only thing that niacin leaves of POIS for me are the things that NSAIDs can clear up. So if the POIS is a little stronger, I take an NSAID and "perfect".

Not that I'm waving the niacin in the air, I know it doesn't work for everybody, but what I found is that taking the NSAIDs before, it may have helped with the muscle aches or joint aches, but still left the POIS. We, and perhaps the doctors, hope that it will reduce inflammation and therefore short circuit POIS. Based on my experience then, NOT TRUE. It just helps to reduce inflammation that the POIS causes, and it's "reach" is only muscles, joints (which may include neck and back where there are a lot of nerves that reach a number of places.

I think it's as you say, the younger ones can seem to get away with taking a bit more. But I would suggest monitoring the liver every 3 to 6 months and probably taking a break of at least a month every once in a while.

The only fairly good recommendation I've heard was recent by someone who took a fairly specific state of the art prescription NSAID recommended by a POIS doctor. Again.... details we are loosing. This NSF thread is endless and like a movie without rewind.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15621 on: 13/02/2012 13:16:20 »
I think we all know by now that the effectivity of niacin is governed by how much one has had to eat beforehand. You need to have fasted for at least 3 hrs. BUT I noticed that this fast includes ALCOHOL.

Saturday night I religiously assured no food after 5:30 PM to be able to get a flush from niacin at 10:30 PM. Problem was that about an hour ahead of "O" time, we had a couple of shots of tequila!! NOPE! No flush!

I had to take another 80mg powdered form to get the flush (180 altogether). Then everything was OK.

But I discovered at least, that if you don't quite make it, and notice that after about 20min you don't feel the flush, you can take powdered niacin for a boost which enters the system within about 5 minutes.

I'd rather take the 100 and wait to see if it works then take more, rather than take 200 right away. Avoid an unpleasant experience.



How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15622 on: 13/02/2012 16:58:08 »
There's been a lot of people going over to the chat, but we're all missing each other.

Maybe announce here or even arrange a time on the chat itself. If you leave a message on chat, the last 10 stay on the board. So you could leave a message, "back in X time".

Chat's help a lot to know the other better.
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline jferr

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15623 on: 14/02/2012 02:47:29 »
Daveman and Kurtosis, thank you for your responses.

I have never been able to have more than one orgasm every few weeks, but with this fairly new treatment regimen I have been on I have been able to have about one each week. I recently took too much niacin accidentally and nearly passed out, this happened one other time also by accident and the results that time were positive. This time, however, I feel run down, fatigued, and mentally drained with no alertness, and my neurological facial expression problems seem to be coming back.. Even with the new regimen of chlorella, spirulina, vitamin c and fish oil afterwards. I even go to the gym 5 days a week and take zma before bed.

I don't think my body is building a tolerance to the medication because I have been cycling a bit. I have even held off on the medication after 3 or 4 days post orgasm just so the effect will be greater for my next orgasm. The only things that have come up in my bloodwork are an inconsistent Growth hormone and a fairly low FSH. I'm not sure why my body seems to have stopped responding to my treatment regimen and I feel as though I'm falling back into the depths. I will be looking to try Imitrex since it has proven to help others but I really don't know what else to do. I will be donating to help our research and such but my problem is consistent and very debilitating. If anyone has any ideas I will undoubtedly listen.

We won'e give up,

Jon.

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15624 on: 14/02/2012 11:03:05 »
Daveman and Kurtosis, thank you for your responses.

I have never been able to have more than one orgasm every few weeks, but with this fairly new treatment regimen I have been on I have been able to have about one each week. I recently took too much niacin accidentally and nearly passed out, this happened one other time also by accident and the results that time were positive. This time, however, I feel run down, fatigued, and mentally drained with no alertness, and my neurological facial expression problems seem to be coming back.. Even with the new regimen of chlorella, spirulina, vitamin c and fish oil afterwards. I even go to the gym 5 days a week and take zma before bed.

I don't think my body is building a tolerance to the medication because I have been cycling a bit. I have even held off on the medication after 3 or 4 days post orgasm just so the effect will be greater for my next orgasm. The only things that have come up in my bloodwork are an inconsistent Growth hormone and a fairly low FSH. I'm not sure why my body seems to have stopped responding to my treatment regimen and I feel as though I'm falling back into the depths. I will be looking to try Imitrex since it has proven to help others but I really don't know what else to do. I will be donating to help our research and such but my problem is consistent and very debilitating. If anyone has any ideas I will undoubtedly listen.

We won'e give up,

Jon.

At least with niacin, our most long time niacin member, Victor, indicates that after 2 yrs. it is still faithful and consistent. It is tricky it seems too much or too little and it loses it's effectivity, and of course fasting before, at least 3 hrs, both food AND alcohol is very important.

Perhaps, if you are going to make any changes, change one thing only at a time and give it at least two sessions to see the change. I think the spirulina and chlorella could interact with niacin so too many changes at once won't let you see what's happening. Also don't take anything within several hours of the niacin on either side.

Sometimes the smallest of changes can make big differences.
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline jferr

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15625 on: 14/02/2012 21:25:40 »
Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15626 on: 15/02/2012 09:15:19 »
Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.
Hi jferr,
Send me a PM letting me know how much of these you're taking and when. I've never been able to take too much niacin as I get a flush after about 100mg and wouldn't take much more than that. I've modified the regime to take a bit less C (as its natural anti-histamine effects were making me drowsy) and more spirulina+chlorella every day as I haven't experienced any ill effects with these. Also, I don't take ZMA every night.

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15627 on: 15/02/2012 11:28:31 »
Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.

Just a thought that's passed my mind, and who knows, maybe has some bearing here. I've wondered if perhaps once the first BIG relief comes (like with the niacin for me) you just can't believe it, it seems impossible, life has finally changed, but with a bit of time you start to notice smaller symptoms. I started to wonder if the effect was wearing off, but then I realized that I was just more sensitive to the littler stuff now.

Also. BN (Before nicain), I had harder sessions and I had easier sessions. And I think even with the niacin, this is true. Some times it lasts a day and sometimes it doesn't even appear. Maybe for you it's just fluctuating and it's in a low at this minute and will improve again in a bit.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15628 on: 15/02/2012 11:29:55 »
Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.
Hi jferr,
Send me a PM letting me know how much of these you're taking and when. I've never been able to take too much niacin as I get a flush after about 100mg and wouldn't take much more than that. I've modified the regime to take a bit less C (as its natural anti-histamine effects were making me drowsy) and more spirulina+chlorella every day as I haven't experienced any ill effects with these. Also, I don't take ZMA every night.

Or post here, it could be useful to some others of us.
Thanks :)
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15629 on: 15/02/2012 19:59:25 »
Daveman, Thank you for the response.

I don't feel that the niacin has become ineffective, i have been using it consistently for months now, and it has helped the worst of sufferings Inused to experience. The real breakthrough came about a month ago when I added chlorella, spirulina, and vitamin C to my treatment regimen right after orgasm. This allowed me to return to the family business because I have been, once again, been able to mentally and physically function. It just seems to be helping to replenish less and less and this time hardly at all. I have tried cycling these products and things like that. I have not tried waiting hours until the orgasm because I'm worried about the first crucial hours of recovery.
Hi jferr,
Send me a PM letting me know how much of these you're taking and when. I've never been able to take too much niacin as I get a flush after about 100mg and wouldn't take much more than that. I've modified the regime to take a bit less C (as its natural anti-histamine effects were making me drowsy) and more spirulina+chlorella every day as I haven't experienced any ill effects with these. Also, I don't take ZMA every night.

Or post here, it could be useful to some others of us.
Thanks :)
I don't mind either way :)
I think Daveman is right about getting over POIS. For me, I realised that POIS had prevented me from making a lot of progress and in the effort to make up for lost time I got quite stressed. I also realised that I was anxious about lots of activities requiring intense concentration and had developed terrible work habits as a result.
This is the POIS fallout and even if you were POIS free in the morning I think you'd suffer from symptoms associated with being in a  very stressful situation for many years, while struggling to cope.

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Offline bastianb

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15630 on: 15/02/2012 23:36:06 »
I don't mind either way :)
I think Daveman is right about getting over POIS. For me, I realised that POIS had prevented me from making a lot of progress and in the effort to make up for lost time I got quite stressed. I also realised that I was anxious about lots of activities requiring intense concentration and had developed terrible work habits as a result.
This is the POIS fallout and even if you were POIS free in the morning I think you'd suffer from symptoms associated with being in a  very stressful situation for many years, while struggling to cope.

Couldn't have put it any better! I also developed terrible 'work' habits indeed. Like, you're fed up from doing the right thing cause it's harder to do and you can't go back to the right way of doing things even when the episode is over.

By the way I've been lurking in and out the forums lately, I just realised I haven't logged in for over 5 months!
Everytime life gets hard I just quickly navigate to this topic without logging in (be it on my mobile or laptop) to see if a cure is found yet or not... fact :D

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Offline jferr

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15631 on: 16/02/2012 04:02:06 »
Thanks again for the responses guys, Much appreciated.

The niacin has been consistent, I don't question that. I usually take about 1,000 mg Chlorella, 1,000 mg spirulina, 1,000 mg vitamin c, and 2 fish oil capsules immediately after orgasm. I sometimes wash these down with a small protein shake. From there, I take a multivitamin and fish oil daily. The chlorella/spirulina is about every other day and the same with vitamin c. I have experimented with more of each but didn't notice much of a difference.

Daveman, I understand what you're saying about getting used to feeling a bit better and noticing the little symptoms. With me, I have been unable to do the work I was doing a few weeks back and feel a lot worse. It is possible that I am experiencing a few bad ones in a row since every time is different, but the past few weeks have been unusually debilitating, and especially this past week. I have been doing everything I can in that I don't orgasm more than once a week and in that once a week, only every other week can be an ejaculation. Full ejaculation takes so much out of me that I usually have to stay away from it when I orgasm. Sometimes, even though I can't take niacin with it, I feel that late night emissions help if I take the proper supplementation afterwards because it takes a far less toll on my body.

My situation is constant, most symptoms are mental, and it's definitely hard. But I have had some success with these things thanks to Kurtosis' recommendation. I just hope that I continue to be able to function guys.

Thanks for your continued help. This is why I don't mind donating, because there is a great community of people working together.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15632 on: 16/02/2012 20:10:14 »
Thanks again for the responses guys, Much appreciated.

The niacin has been consistent, I don't question that. I usually take about 1,000 mg Chlorella, 1,000 mg spirulina, 1,000 mg vitamin c, and 2 fish oil capsules immediately after orgasm. I sometimes wash these down with a small protein shake. From there, I take a multivitamin and fish oil daily. The chlorella/spirulina is about every other day and the same with vitamin c. I have experimented with more of each but didn't notice much of a difference.

Daveman, I understand what you're saying about getting used to feeling a bit better and noticing the little symptoms. With me, I have been unable to do the work I was doing a few weeks back and feel a lot worse. It is possible that I am experiencing a few bad ones in a row since every time is different, but the past few weeks have been unusually debilitating, and especially this past week. I have been doing everything I can in that I don't orgasm more than once a week and in that once a week, only every other week can be an ejaculation. Full ejaculation takes so much out of me that I usually have to stay away from it when I orgasm. Sometimes, even though I can't take niacin with it, I feel that late night emissions help if I take the proper supplementation afterwards because it takes a far less toll on my body.

My situation is constant, most symptoms are mental, and it's definitely hard. But I have had some success with these things thanks to Kurtosis' recommendation. I just hope that I continue to be able to function guys.

Thanks for your continued help. This is why I don't mind donating, because there is a great community of people working together.

I hope I can continue to help.
Your dosages make sense to me based on my experience.

I'd worry slightly about combining vit c and a whey based protein shake as that seems very harsh on your stomach. I take the chlorella+spirulina first and then the vit c about 20 minutes later.

The other changes I've made is that I've mostly replaced the fish oil with krill oil (Neptune Krill Oil by Now) and the multi-vit + separate chlorella is replaced by a breakfast milkshake/smoothie with the following ingredients (some based on P Bickforrd's research) - coconut oil, blueberries, bananas, pineapple, vanilla bifidus yoghurt, honey, a scoop of spirulina and a scoop of chlorella (about 500mg each) . It's a funny looking concoction but even the girlfriend thinks it tastes great. It was inspired by a few articles I read (such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16176814) and the knowledge that MCT from coconut oil, the anti-oxidants in blueberries and the multiple ingredients of chlorella + spirulina including tyrosine, GLA & CGF were foods that, whenever I took them, improved my mood and concentration. So I thought, why not take them all at once? It's not coincidence that all these foods are natural ways to boost your dopamine levels.

Well it gives me a fast mood lift and improves my sleep. I've drank it twice a day now for the past 10 days. Not long now but I'm happy the results so far and haven't missed the multi-vit. A cheaper alternative might be a multi-vit with less b6 than the Quest platinum & tyrosine powder to help regulate the amount but there's something, to me anyway, that feels intrinsically better about trying to get the nutrients from food & I include algae in that category. Actually seaweed was popular as a food source in Ireland & Scotland for many years. It also stops me skipping breakfast which was something I was prone to doing.

But as I've gotten better and better since xmas (mostly by assuming this was a catecholamine cycle problem and trying to treat that myself) I've started to see just bad things had gotten in my working life and some of my relationships due to POIS. And it's tough not to dwell on all that wasted time.

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Offline jferr

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15633 on: 17/02/2012 01:01:07 »
Kurtosis, That's some great advice.

I will deifnitely look into making that drink as well as it sounds like you're benefiting from it. And catecholamine consistency is something that i could deifnitely use. Tell me.. Is it difficult to make? I'm sure other in this forum are reading this as well because it seems you are very knowledgable. how much of each item do you take? Do you blend it?

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15634 on: 17/02/2012 10:47:53 »
Kurtosis, That's some great advice.

I will deifnitely look into making that drink as well as it sounds like you're benefiting from it. And catecholamine consistency is something that i could deifnitely use. Tell me.. Is it difficult to make? I'm sure other in this forum are reading this as well because it seems you are very knowledgable. how much of each item do you take? Do you blend it?
Thanks Jferr. Well I had an O yesterday night and feel pretty good. What's odd about this is that I haven't had any niacin in a week. So what I took to recover was 2 tablets of sprirulina and 2 capsules of krill oil.
See http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Nutritional-Oils/Fish-Omega-3-Krill-Oils/061193.htm for EPA/DHA/Astaxanthin estimates

I then took the ZMA when I wanted to go asleep. I felt clear enough 10 minutes after taking this to read 10 pages of a technical book which I remember this morning and decided to read another 30 pages. So when you want to read 40 pages of statistics then it's not the average POIS day :)

Then the ZMA ended up making me tired and I fell asleep. I always get this effect with it.  Now ZMA is just zinc, magnesium and b6 so, as I've said before, I'm not advocating this for sports use or making any claims about free testosterone. I just feel it helps replenish some of what's lost after an O and that there's a certain replaceability of b6 and b3 as was pointed out during the famous post about the child with tourettes.
http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1996-February/022416.html

This clarity the following morning is NOT my normal POIS experience. If I had to boil it down I believe that the key nutrients & minerals that have made a big difference are:
- astaxanthin
- Omega3s in phospolipoid form in krill oil.
- zinc
- b6
- tyrosine
- probiotics

 but there's something extra when they all get combined together. I'd be really interested to learn what anybody else's experience is of tyrosine. Mine is that it improves cognitive performance quite quickly (increases dopamine & other catecholamines) but doesn't cure the pain/allergy symptoms of POIS. So you don't feel as POIS-dumb but still feel out of sorts. The allergy symptoms are virtually gone now and they started to improve dramatically when I took krill oil (astaxanthin & omega3s) twice a day.

The smoothie is easy to make. I have a blender with a smoothie setting. I very rarely used it until I had a spirulina smoothie on a business trip and felt brighter for the rest of the day. I make about 2 tall glasses worth of it and drink 4 glasses a day. My POIS-related (or POIS causing, who knows?) digestive problems have improved also.

So the ingredients are:
- a desert spoon of honey for taste. (use less if you want)
- 1.5 desert spoons of coconut oil.
- a banana
- 500 ml of water (it's from our own well, not sure I'd put city tap water into this and expect it to taste OK / be healthy :))
- 500 ml of pineapple juice
- ~20 blueberries
- ~ 10 pineapple chunks (fresh stuff as oppose to canned)
- a desert spoon of vanilla bifidus yoghurt (or 2 if you like).
- 500mg of spirulina & 500mg of chlorella.
Blend it all up and drink quickly. Don't let it settle or think it can be refrigerated. Within about 1 hour it goes from a greenish froth with a pleasant taste to something that looks very unappetising.

As I've said I believe I could achieve a similar effect with vitamin supplements but I'd rather not. This way, I'm actually getting a meal of smoothies and 2 other meals a day so it's improved my diet.

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15635 on: 18/02/2012 11:48:38 »
So are you going to try more time without niacin in the diet?

The worst problem with niacin is it's rigidity respect to fasting before and taking just enough to flush.

I thought about trying this but have no need. But there are many who do, so hopefully it will work for them.

I would really like to see more of you try it and report back, especially those of you who haven't found a good solution yet.

I will see how to include it in a survey. We might be able to see then if there are differences in effectivity 1) between different POIS groups and 2) as compared to other things like niacin or other treatments.

Another point, There are things like fresh blueberries and pineapple that have their seasons, and in some parts aren't always available. Have you found a solution for that?

BTW what is vanilla bifidus yogurt? I'm not sure where I could get half the things in the recipe. I suppose you'd have to look around, and once you could find the sources you'd be OK.
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15636 on: 18/02/2012 11:55:28 »
Actually I use about 1/2 a tablespoon each of Chlorella and Spirulina in my smoothies. That's about a table spoon of each a day. This is about the same amount that I used to dissolve in water.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15637 on: 18/02/2012 12:19:41 »
So are you going to try more time without niacin in the diet?

The worst problem with niacin is it's rigidity respect to fasting before and taking just enough to flush.

I thought about trying this but have no need. But there are many who do, so hopefully it will work for them.

I would really like to see more of you try it and report back, especially those of you who haven't found a good solution yet.

I will see how to include it in a survey. We might be able to see then if there are differences in effectivity 1) between different POIS groups and 2) as compared to other things like niacin or other treatments.

Another point, There are things like fresh blueberries and pineapple that have their seasons, and in some parts aren't always available. Have you found a solution for that?

BTW what is vanilla bifidus yogurt? I'm not sure where I could get half the things in the recipe. I suppose you'd have to look around, and once you could find the sources you'd be OK.
Hi,
I happened to be online at the same time Daveman.
Yes, I'm going to see if I can go for longer without niacin but I still have a bottle of niacin tables here, just in case :)
It works best with the flush but I must admit, the flush worries me as sometimes the intensity feels great (probably as I've fasted longer) and the red complexion takes longer to clear. I've never come close to passing out from it as JFerr reports.

Bifidis yoghurt is really popular in the UK and much of continental Europe. A popular brand is activia but there are others http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activia
They do a vanilla flavour and I use that but I've also seen other brands that have their own cultures of Bifidobacterium. You can even get similar probiotic capsules in health food shops.
You can also source spirulina and chlorella in health food shops or online. I always use Synergy brand. http://www.synergynatural.com/
Their "premium" has a stronger taste than "organic" and allegedly has a higher concentration of nutrients, including tyrosine.

I'm afraid I don't have a solution to "freshness" as I'm buying imported fruit & I must admit that it doesn't taste quite as good as the fresh stuff I've eaten in warmer climates. However, I don't have any problem in getting fruit all year around from the local supermarkets.

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Offline Pharaoh

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15638 on: 19/02/2012 02:26:42 »
On yahoo today there was an article about "7 Health Symptoms You Should Never Ignore."  Included was:

"4. Headaches: Although we're all familiar with the occasional headache, it can sometimes also indicate a serious problem like a brain tumor or meningitis, says Dr. Gruver. If your headache is accompanied by a fever, stiff neck, or vomiting or lasts an unusually long time (more than a few days), it should be investigated, she says.
Other symptoms that require medical attention: A severe headache that comes on suddenly; a headache accompanied by slurred speech, vision problems, trouble moving your arms and legs, loss of balance, confusion, or memory loss; a headache that gets worse over a 24-hour period; a headache that occurs with a head injury."

So, although I have found significant relief with Imitrex, I was forced to suspend my use for a couple of weeks.  Reason being that it becomes less effective if taken frequently, i.e. daily or even every few days.  However, following a week or two week break its effectiveness will return.  Moreover, my insurance limits the amount covered to 27 pills per 62 days.  My Dr. has provided a prior-authorization to increase the quantity.  Also, she has recommended I see a neurologist, and in particular a headache specialist.  So, I have an appointment at the Johns Hopkins Headache Center in a few months.  I've been told it's among the best.  I'll be sure to provide an update on my treatment and any progress made.  Best of luck to all of you and we will find a cure soon! 

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Offline jferr

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15639 on: 19/02/2012 05:06:50 »
Kurtosis, That's some great advice.

I will deifnitely look into making that drink as well as it sounds like you're benefiting from it. And catecholamine consistency is something that i could deifnitely use. Tell me.. Is it difficult to make? I'm sure other in this forum are reading this as well because it seems you are very knowledgable. how much of each item do you take? Do you blend it?
Thanks Jferr. Well I had an O yesterday night and feel pretty good. What's odd about this is that I haven't had any niacin in a week. So what I took to recover was 2 tablets of sprirulina and 2 capsules of krill oil.
See http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Nutritional-Oils/Fish-Omega-3-Krill-Oils/061193.htm for EPA/DHA/Astaxanthin estimates

I then took the ZMA when I wanted to go asleep. I felt clear enough 10 minutes after taking this to read 10 pages of a technical book which I remember this morning and decided to read another 30 pages. So when you want to read 40 pages of statistics then it's not the average POIS day :)

Then the ZMA ended up making me tired and I fell asleep. I always get this effect with it.  Now ZMA is just zinc, magnesium and b6 so, as I've said before, I'm not advocating this for sports use or making any claims about free testosterone. I just feel it helps replenish some of what's lost after an O and that there's a certain replaceability of b6 and b3 as was pointed out during the famous post about the child with tourettes.
http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1996-February/022416.html

This clarity the following morning is NOT my normal POIS experience. If I had to boil it down I believe that the key nutrients & minerals that have made a big difference are:
- astaxanthin
- Omega3s in phospolipoid form in krill oil.
- zinc
- b6
- tyrosine
- probiotics

 but there's something extra when they all get combined together. I'd be really interested to learn what anybody else's experience is of tyrosine. Mine is that it improves cognitive performance quite quickly (increases dopamine & other catecholamines) but doesn't cure the pain/allergy symptoms of POIS. So you don't feel as POIS-dumb but still feel out of sorts. The allergy symptoms are virtually gone now and they started to improve dramatically when I took krill oil (astaxanthin & omega3s) twice a day.

The smoothie is easy to make. I have a blender with a smoothie setting. I very rarely used it until I had a spirulina smoothie on a business trip and felt brighter for the rest of the day. I make about 2 tall glasses worth of it and drink 4 glasses a day. My POIS-related (or POIS causing, who knows?) digestive problems have improved also.

So the ingredients are:
- a desert spoon of honey for taste. (use less if you want)
- 1.5 desert spoons of coconut oil.
- a banana
- 500 ml of water (it's from our own well, not sure I'd put city tap water into this and expect it to taste OK / be healthy :))
- 500 ml of pineapple juice
- ~20 blueberries
- ~ 10 pineapple chunks (fresh stuff as oppose to canned)
- a desert spoon of vanilla bifidus yoghurt (or 2 if you like).
- 500mg of spirulina & 500mg of chlorella.
Blend it all up and drink quickly. Don't let it settle or think it can be refrigerated. Within about 1 hour it goes from a greenish froth with a pleasant taste to something that looks very unappetising.

As I've said I believe I could achieve a similar effect with vitamin supplements but I'd rather not. This way, I'm actually getting a meal of smoothies and 2 other meals a day so it's improved my diet.

Kurtosis, Very interesting.

It sounds like you really boiled down the list of things you take to some specifics. When after or before O do you take these supplements? And how much of these do you take? And as for the shake, Do you take that after orgasm as well and every day after that? And how much of this as well?

Thanks again.

Jon.

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Offline observercenter

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15640 on: 19/02/2012 12:05:31 »
So, although I have found significant relief with Imitrex, I was forced to suspend my use for a couple of weeks.  Reason being that it becomes less effective if taken frequently, i.e. daily or even every few days.  However, following a week or two week break its effectiveness will return.  Moreover, my insurance limits the amount covered to 27 pills per 62 days.  My Dr. has provided a prior-authorization to increase the quantity.  Also, she has recommended I see a neurologist, and in particular a headache specialist.  So, I have an appointment at the Johns Hopkins Headache Center in a few months.  I've been told it's among the best.  I'll be sure to provide an update on my treatment and any progress made.  Best of luck to all of you and we will find a cure soon! 

Exactly the same is happening with the niacin -becomes less effective if taken frequently - That is due you need to raise the threshold to get the flush if you take it every day. After few days, this effect passes, and you get the flush at the same threshold.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15641 on: 19/02/2012 12:58:09 »
Kurtosis, That's some great advice.

I will deifnitely look into making that drink as well as it sounds like you're benefiting from it. And catecholamine consistency is something that i could deifnitely use. Tell me.. Is it difficult to make? I'm sure other in this forum are reading this as well because it seems you are very knowledgable. how much of each item do you take? Do you blend it?
Thanks Jferr. Well I had an O yesterday night and feel pretty good. What's odd about this is that I haven't had any niacin in a week. So what I took to recover was 2 tablets of sprirulina and 2 capsules of krill oil.
See http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Nutritional-Oils/Fish-Omega-3-Krill-Oils/061193.htm for EPA/DHA/Astaxanthin estimates

I then took the ZMA when I wanted to go asleep. I felt clear enough 10 minutes after taking this to read 10 pages of a technical book which I remember this morning and decided to read another 30 pages. So when you want to read 40 pages of statistics then it's not the average POIS day :)

Then the ZMA ended up making me tired and I fell asleep. I always get this effect with it.  Now ZMA is just zinc, magnesium and b6 so, as I've said before, I'm not advocating this for sports use or making any claims about free testosterone. I just feel it helps replenish some of what's lost after an O and that there's a certain replaceability of b6 and b3 as was pointed out during the famous post about the child with tourettes.
http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/neur-sci/1996-February/022416.html

This clarity the following morning is NOT my normal POIS experience. If I had to boil it down I believe that the key nutrients & minerals that have made a big difference are:
- astaxanthin
- Omega3s in phospolipoid form in krill oil.
- zinc
- b6
- tyrosine
- probiotics

 but there's something extra when they all get combined together. I'd be really interested to learn what anybody else's experience is of tyrosine. Mine is that it improves cognitive performance quite quickly (increases dopamine & other catecholamines) but doesn't cure the pain/allergy symptoms of POIS. So you don't feel as POIS-dumb but still feel out of sorts. The allergy symptoms are virtually gone now and they started to improve dramatically when I took krill oil (astaxanthin & omega3s) twice a day.

The smoothie is easy to make. I have a blender with a smoothie setting. I very rarely used it until I had a spirulina smoothie on a business trip and felt brighter for the rest of the day. I make about 2 tall glasses worth of it and drink 4 glasses a day. My POIS-related (or POIS causing, who knows?) digestive problems have improved also.

So the ingredients are:
- a desert spoon of honey for taste. (use less if you want)
- 1.5 desert spoons of coconut oil.
- a banana
- 500 ml of water (it's from our own well, not sure I'd put city tap water into this and expect it to taste OK / be healthy :))
- 500 ml of pineapple juice
- ~20 blueberries
- ~ 10 pineapple chunks (fresh stuff as oppose to canned)
- a desert spoon of vanilla bifidus yoghurt (or 2 if you like).
- 500mg of spirulina & 500mg of chlorella.
Blend it all up and drink quickly. Don't let it settle or think it can be refrigerated. Within about 1 hour it goes from a greenish froth with a pleasant taste to something that looks very unappetising.

As I've said I believe I could achieve a similar effect with vitamin supplements but I'd rather not. This way, I'm actually getting a meal of smoothies and 2 other meals a day so it's improved my diet.

Kurtosis, Very interesting.

It sounds like you really boiled down the list of things you take to some specifics. When after or before O do you take these supplements? And how much of these do you take? And as for the shake, Do you take that after orgasm as well and every day after that? And how much of this as well?

Thanks again.

Jon.

I take the shake twice a day. As breakfast and when I get in from work, generally sometime between 7 & 8 pm. I don't take the shake after O. The only things I take after that are 2 spirulina capsules & 1 krill oil capsule within 10 minutes and the ZMA, before I plan on going to sleep. I try to have O's in the late evening anyway so this isn't an inconvenience :)

I'm going to be a bit more efficient with my ingredients and reduce my consumption of the smoothie to 3 glasses a day (currently 4, 2 in the morning & 2 in the evening). I think with the reduced amount I should still be well covered for tyrosine & b-vitamins.

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Offline Habibou

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15642 on: 19/02/2012 16:17:44 »
I read an interesting article about the links between stress/food/neurotransmitters lack/auto immu illnesses/CSF...
http://jeanzin.fr/ecorevo/sciences/nutritio.htm (in french unfortunatly) I will ask a doctor and update about it  :)

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15643 on: 19/02/2012 23:20:40 »
So, I have an appointment at the Johns Hopkins Headache Center in a few months.  I've been told it's among the best.  I'll be sure to provide an update on my treatment and any progress made.  Best of luck to all of you and we will find a cure soon! 

Good going Pharaoh! The more specialists we see the better
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline Omen 30

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15644 on: 20/02/2012 05:10:10 »
I have this strange feeling about morning orgasms,cardio exercise and pois....I started having morning orgasms which helped me a lot...on day 3 after morning orgasms I used to recover from pois...but since a week I have experienced this strange phenomenom I have started cardio exercise which makes my heart beat stronger...this cardio exercise has changed my recovery time after morning orgasms from 2 days to immediate...as soon as I orgasm I recover from pois...pls use this information in treating pois...I take no supplemnts no medicines...just normal food and a sedentary life...

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15645 on: 21/02/2012 21:28:41 »

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Offline Pharaoh

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15646 on: 21/02/2012 21:29:28 »
I'm curious as to how effective hyposensitization treatment has been for any of our fellow forum members. 

Habibou,
Didn't you have a skin ***** test?  Anything come out of that? 

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Offline Habibou

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15647 on: 21/02/2012 23:05:14 »
I stopped the SLIT because it was not effective (I guess because the semen was frozen and the protein I am allergic to dies during the processus...) So I will try Injections for desensibilisation because it has to be fresh semen. That is my explanation for this fail ...

N.B : I reacted to the skin p... test when it was fresh and I did not when it was frozen !

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Offline ophicus1213

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #15648 on: 22/02/2012 07:20:20 »
I strongly suggest that anyone who gains some control over the condition with niacin, like myself and many others, invests time into researching Vitamin B-2 (Riboflavin).  End Game.  Riboflavin converts B6 into P5P, the active form.  It facilitates conversion of niacin from tryptophan, and the folate cycle requires riboflavin.  The creation of vital brain neurotransmitters rely on a healthy supply of bio-available active forms of vitamins naturally converted by the body. http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/fa/fadiag1.html