Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline desperate man

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16950 on: 13/07/2012 14:17:57 »
Daveman spoke the truth.Watch out with vitamin B-s! You take in one and you upset the balance of the others.
If I were you I would find a doc who is willing to do a vitamin level test.
It's the best thing you could do.For example I am also following a thread of post accutane sufferers and the drug has made their levels chronically low as a 70 years old person who spent the last few years at home without getting sunshine.
Vitamin D is essential for intestinal,heart,brain health.Vitamin B is essential for brain health and detoxification.I'm sure if you have low levels of vitamin B then your liver is messed up and you are full of toxins too.
If niacin is helpful then you need to find out why is it helpful for you in the first place.Niacin has a relationship with histamine levels.Histamine levels are responsible for allergic reactions.If you have very high histamine levels you will be itchy all day and have watery eyes,constant sneezing etc. because of dust in the air also get severe allergic reaction from certain things,food likes anaphylactic shock for example so it is worth to check out.
If antihistamine works for you then you know that the problem is high histamine levels and a crazy autoimmunity...
But if you think this is not enough then here is a twist: there is something causing the high histamine and autoimmunity which you will need to find out and address the problem.Besides antihistamines come with side effects (you guessed it right,ED is one) and the last thing we need is more drugs for our weak bodies.
« Last Edit: 13/07/2012 14:22:02 by desperate man »

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16951 on: 13/07/2012 16:18:03 »

Thank you demografx, global moderator for all your time on the forum. We had often need you to share ideas and avoid conflict here. I especially remember the little time you have left the forum after your surgery.  Amazing!
We have a job to finish but since 2012 I have the feelings we have made the largest part.  Friendly.


Many thanks to Demografx. Guess I'll have to keep an eye on both poiscenter and this as there's posts on both. I won't be giving up the NSF as new posters will find this forum and will need help and direction to poiscenter. I think that if we abandoned this outpost of planet POIS we may miss new posters and ideas.
« Last Edit: 21/07/2012 05:57:55 by demografx »

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Offline tonytwoton

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16952 on: 13/07/2012 16:18:05 »
Just a quick update...

I have continued receiving daily injections of b12 cyanocobalamin. I am experiencing greatly increased fatigue. I feel like sleeping all the time. I can only seem to stomach small meals. My Chinese acupuncturist told me that some people do get a reaction to b12 injections, and to take a b-complex multi vitamin.

Taking a step back, my overarching goal is to eat a balanced whole foods plant based diet that will supply me with all the adequate vitamins, minerals, enzymes, cofactors, etc. that my body needs. However, I am beginning to understand that even with a diet that includes locally grown, organic food to the maximum, my body may still be deficient in certain things.

I am not a "locavore" or a fanatical vegan zealot. I wish to be as pragmatic as possible. Local, organic food provides the maximum amount of all essential nutrients. Food grown with chemicals in faraway lands is severely depleted of much of its nutritional value even if it is not spoiled. In this day and age with all the stress from work, pollution, toxic chemicals, electromagnetic radiation, I think eating whole foods is even more important. That said, there are nutrients that cannot be replenished exclusively with food. Here is what I have come up with so far:

1) Vitamin D. Although D3 is the active form, there are apparently hundreds of isomers of Vitamin D that can only be manufactured by skin from exposure to sunlight. It is necessary to expose at least 60-80% of the body to the noon-day sun for at least 30 minutes to get enough D. Also, showering with soap for 48 hours afterwards inhibits absorption apparently. http://nadir.nilu.no/~olaeng/fastrt/VitD_quartMED.html

2) Vitamin B12. Only manufactured by microbes and found in animal products. Nonetheless, many omnivores are deficient in B12.

As far as I know, whole grains, vegetables, legumes, fruit, and nuts can provide all the other essential nutrition the body needs. It may or may not be necessary/beneficial to eat meat, eggs, and dairy in small amounts.

If nutritional deficiencies can be totally ruled out for POIS, then research can be focused in other areas, but it seems like food/diet might be a good place to start...

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16953 on: 13/07/2012 17:19:42 »
I will be looking into testing similar formulations  with more people, especially those who have had problems with just niacin. Also we have to be careful with higher strength B complexes, and find a safe balance.

The tests of course are not practicable here.


Another possibility is supplementation with pregnenolone. This is a steroid and should really only be used if there's a tested hormone deficiency (e.g. progestogen) which it can help resolve. The hypothesis that POIS is related to this is mentioned on the wikipedia page. It would also raise acetylcholine levels which are reduced in myasthenia gravis. It's the reduced levels that cause things like the double vision and drooping eyelids.

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Offline desperate man

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16954 on: 13/07/2012 17:52:24 »
Quote
It would also raise acetylcholine levels which are reduced in myasthenia gravis. It's the reduced levels that cause things like the double vision and drooping eyelids.

Can you provide a link to scientifically confirm this? I have droopy eyelids since child age.Do you guys have that too?

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16955 on: 13/07/2012 20:17:57 »
I had my B12 tested 2 wks ago but the damn doctor is out of town for a month and the office won't give me my results without a doctor to go over it.  it's bullshit.  I'll report it once i get it. 
I agree with Desperate, good post Tony, but don't be too hopeful that youve been cured.  I'd imagine B12 is a stimulant, and most stimulants give me short term relief.  Definitely let us know after a couple weeks, good or bad.

Starsky, although your announcement was/is monumental news, it appears as if the forum is starting to chatter about other things and within time the day to day of this forum will be in full swing.  Please make sure to keep us posted every step of the way.  I want to just reiterate that I'm a big proponent of this and am very excited to finally have more proof that this works.  If you can show that Animus's results were not a 1-off case, and get his same positive results while leaving your family jewels in-tact, me and I'm sure many others will have to seriously consider it.       

My vitamin b12 and folic acid came out good.

726                out of     211 - 946 pg/ml
15.4                 out of >3.0ng/ml
for folate acid considered deficient if <2.2 ng/ml

i did this test in pois.couple of days after ejaculation

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Offline Stef

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16956 on: 13/07/2012 20:44:57 »
First I want to apologize that i will not donate this year to NORD to seek the cure. Today I decided to GET THE CURE. I started to search Urologists here in Poland which will help me in the realization of the plan:
-banking my semen
-doing a close-ended vasectomy (cost about 200 US Dollars and no problem in my country with doing this)
-removal of the seminal vescicles
-eventually TURP, but perhaps I wont need them if I will take finasteride

As you can see its a little bit modificated Animus Solution, because no one in Poland is willing to do a orchiectomy on demand and as Animus says it does not help a lot. The two other parts of the plan, I think I must do aborad: I hope I will find someone in Romania or Hungary (you can have there even Kidney transplants from a living donor).

Please help me and say what do you think about it?

Wow, that's a bold move Starsky!  Can you explain the thought process behind each procedure?

You'd have the procedure done one step at a time, too, so if just one of them "cures" you we'd be able to pinpoint which one, right?

Does insurance cover any of this?  How much does each part cost? 

What side effects are there for each procedure?  If your doctors think the risks are on the low side, then i'd be inclined to think favorably about it.  If we're talking strictly benefits here and not looking at the risks, I'd guess (completely unknowingly) that these 3 procedures would capture the problem. 

People have these procedures done for a whole variety of reasons... cancer, enlarged prostate, not wanting kids, etc.  I think this is as good a reason as any.  The only difference, and the only reason this is scary in my opinion, is that the cure isn't guaranteed. 

I'd actually be willing to donate towards helping you get this done.  The knowledge we'd gain from your procedures would be helpful to any future research and might teach us a great deal.

I will not do it in one operation because i dont want a POIS Overkill and want to let anybody to know which of those are really helping. EDS had a vasectomy (a closed as he remembers) and it does not helped so the whole Waldinger theory is ruined. I think Walldinger has a treatment but he has a false theory. And i dont want the SCIT, its too much pain and side effects and there are just ONE totally cured.
 Yes, i will sacrifice me in the name of the research. Besides i give so much for suplements and laboratory testing that i think i could have done this surgery so many times. But dont be affraid, the decision was not made because im depressed. I was thinking about this solution for more than a year. I wanted to say that i begin just with the preperation, because i want to know how much it costs and who can do it. With vasectomy (closed with a titanium clip, without cutting) there is no problem, the problem is with the vesiculectomy beacuse its more complicated and i must find a private clinic and a sympathetic doctor.

Starsky,

I received an e-news today at NORD regarding finasteride.  It came in the daily medical updates I receive from the medical-legal online journal, AboutLawsuits.com.
I'm about to post it on poiscenter.com, as a new thread in "General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS." 
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?board=7.0
Please read it (and anyone else who is considering the use of finasteride -- please read!).

Stef

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16957 on: 13/07/2012 21:46:39 »
Quote
It would also raise acetylcholine levels which are reduced in myasthenia gravis. It's the reduced levels that cause things like the double vision and drooping eyelids.

Can you provide a link to scientifically confirm this? I have droopy eyelids since child age.Do you guys have that too?

Read http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001731/

and http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/myasthenia_gravis/detail_myasthenia_gravis.htm
"In myasthenia gravis, antibodies block, alter, or destroy the receptors for acetylcholine at the neuromuscular junction, which prevents the muscle contraction from occurring. These antibodies are produced by the body's own immune system. Myasthenia gravis is an autoimmune disease because the immune system—which normally protects the body from foreign organisms—mistakenly attacks itself...

Medications used to treat the disorder include anti cholinesterase agents..."

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Offline desperate man

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16958 on: 14/07/2012 00:10:06 »
I had my B12 tested 2 wks ago but the damn doctor is out of town for a month and the office won't give me my results without a doctor to go over it.  it's bullshit.  I'll report it once i get it. 
I agree with Desperate, good post Tony, but don't be too hopeful that youve been cured.  I'd imagine B12 is a stimulant, and most stimulants give me short term relief.  Definitely let us know after a couple weeks, good or bad.

Starsky, although your announcement was/is monumental news, it appears as if the forum is starting to chatter about other things and within time the day to day of this forum will be in full swing.  Please make sure to keep us posted every step of the way.  I want to just reiterate that I'm a big proponent of this and am very excited to finally have more proof that this works.  If you can show that Animus's results were not a 1-off case, and get his same positive results while leaving your family jewels in-tact, me and I'm sure many others will have to seriously consider it.       

My vitamin b12 and folic acid came out good.

726                out of     211 - 946 pg/ml
15.4                 out of >3.0ng/ml
for folate acid considered deficient if <2.2 ng/ml

i did this test in pois.couple of days after ejaculation

Hold your horses! Is that 15.4 folate or folic serum? You know that high value means you are not converting it properly?

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16959 on: 14/07/2012 00:40:10 »

My vitamin b12 and folic acid came out good.

726                out of     211 - 946 pg/ml
15.4                 out of >3.0ng/ml
for folate acid considered deficient if <2.2 ng/ml

i did this test in pois.couple of days after ejaculation

K, I finally got my B12 readings back.
754        out of     211 - 946 pg/ml

So it is fine, if not even on the high side.
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16960 on: 14/07/2012 06:49:15 »
I take Wellbutrin XL 150 mg tablets.  1 day on, 1 day off, 1 day on, 4 days off, repeat.  It's not perfect, in fact, far from it.  But I'm mostly functional at work with it and it's the closest to normal as I've come in the year and a half I've been on this forum.  If you have a primary care physician it should be easy enough to get.  I've only been doing this for 4 wks so still experimenting, but at this point I don't see any reason why it won't continue to work.  If you have constant pois, like me, i highly recommend you talk to your doctor about trying it.   
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16961 on: 14/07/2012 16:46:10 »
Anyway, for the first time in 20 years, I have no noticeable POIS symptoms. I'm taking Gingko, Huperzine and a high-strength b complex with active co-enzymes of b12 and b6. I'm also taking krill oil. The Huperzine seems to have sorted out the eye problem. I didn't take it yesterday morning and the eye control problem was back. 200mcg of it and within 10 minutes it's fixed and my memory is greatly improved. I've had 4 O's in a week with no diminishment in cognitive performance.

Can you elaborate on the specific brand information?

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Offline Prancer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16962 on: 14/07/2012 17:48:50 »
it's the closest to normal as I've come in the year and a half I've been on this forum.

That's excellent to hear you are getting some relief from your constant POIS. I still don't know if I have constant POIS, but it's possible. I was recently reading through the archives here and discovered that my symptoms are very similar to yours (90% cognitive). I also agree with you that the times when I have a very strong urge to experience orgasm I feel my best. I plan on abstaining starting later this month for as long as possible. I should know then if I have it.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16963 on: 14/07/2012 19:17:51 »
Anyway, for the first time in 20 years, I have no noticeable POIS symptoms. I'm taking Gingko, Huperzine and a high-strength b complex with active co-enzymes of b12 and b6. I'm also taking krill oil. The Huperzine seems to have sorted out the eye problem. I didn't take it yesterday morning and the eye control problem was back. 200mcg of it and within 10 minutes it's fixed and my memory is greatly improved. I've had 4 O's in a week with no diminishment in cognitive performance.

Can you elaborate on the specific brand information?
Now Foods coenzymated B-complex. Also have Solgar Megasorb B. The ginkgo and huperzine are both from Source Naturals. All available in the UK.

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Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16964 on: 14/07/2012 20:25:26 »
Good post Tony! I have been suspecting Lyme for a long time which includes a severe deficiency of B12.
You give hope.
I was tested for Lyme and it was negative.  However, some tests are not accurate due to the evolution of lyme disease.  My physician went over the lab results with me and we both determined that Lyme disease was not a factor in my case and the very expensive, accurate lab was not ordered.  If you believe Lyme may be responsible for some of your symptoms you can easily get a Lyme test.

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Offline desperate man

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16965 on: 14/07/2012 20:46:20 »
Good post Tony! I have been suspecting Lyme for a long time which includes a severe deficiency of B12.
You give hope.
I was tested for Lyme and it was negative.  However, some tests are not accurate due to the evolution of lyme disease.  My physician went over the lab results with me and we both determined that Lyme disease was not a factor in my case and the very expensive, accurate lab was not ordered.  If you believe Lyme may be responsible for some of your symptoms you can easily get a Lyme test.

"We are told by manufacturers, health departments and clinics that the Lyme ELISA tests are good, useful tests, but in two blinded studies that tested laboratories for accuracy, they failed miserably. Lorie Bakken, MS/MPH, showed in her studies that there was not only inaccuracy and inconsistency between competing laboratories, but also between identical triple samples sent to the same lab. In other words, identical samples often resulted in different results! In the first study, forty-five labs correctly identified the samples only 55% of the time.

In the latest study by the College of American Pathologists, 516 labs were tested. The overall result was terrible! There were almost equal numbers of false positives as false negatives. Overall, the labs were 55% inaccurate. The labs could only give a correct result 45% of the time. You are actually better off to flip a coin!"

I have been bit by those **ckers more than 4 times in my life.I have nearly all the symptoms.Many CFS sufferers have Lyme but have not been diagnosed yet.The last time I went cycling with a friend and got bit by a tic.I asked my friend and he has never had any tic bites while those little bastards find me everytime I go near a forrest.Somehow I attract them but why? Body odour?

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16966 on: 15/07/2012 10:58:13 »
Good post Tony! I have been suspecting Lyme for a long time which includes a severe deficiency of B12.
You give hope.
I was tested for Lyme and it was negative.  However, some tests are not accurate due to the evolution of lyme disease.  My physician went over the lab results with me and we both determined that Lyme disease was not a factor in my case and the very expensive, accurate lab was not ordered.  If you believe Lyme may be responsible for some of your symptoms you can easily get a Lyme test.

"We are told by manufacturers, health departments and clinics that the Lyme ELISA tests are good, useful tests, but in two blinded studies that tested laboratories for accuracy, they failed miserably. Lorie Bakken, MS/MPH, showed in her studies that there was not only inaccuracy and inconsistency between competing laboratories, but also between identical triple samples sent to the same lab. In other words, identical samples often resulted in different results! In the first study, forty-five labs correctly identified the samples only 55% of the time.

In the latest study by the College of American Pathologists, 516 labs were tested. The overall result was terrible! There were almost equal numbers of false positives as false negatives. Overall, the labs were 55% inaccurate. The labs could only give a correct result 45% of the time. You are actually better off to flip a coin!"

I have been bit by those **ckers more than 4 times in my life.I have nearly all the symptoms.Many CFS sufferers have Lyme but have not been diagnosed yet.The last time I went cycling with a friend and got bit by a tic.I asked my friend and he has never had any tic bites while those little bastards find me everytime I go near a forrest.Somehow I attract them but why? Body odour?
Funny / tragic thing is, if you explained to to your doctor, they'd probably just view it as greater evidence of hypochondria / anxiety.

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Offline Stef

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16967 on: 16/07/2012 03:46:49 »
Hi, Desperate Man, Kurtosis, Lauracostis, and All,

The blood test for Lyme disease is very inaccurate! It doesn't test for the bacteria that causes Lyme disease; rather, it tests for antibodies to the bacteria.

It can take two months or more for these antibodies to show up on a blood test, despite someone being actively infected with Lyme disease (caused by the bite of an infected deer tick, for those of you not familiar).

I live in Connecticut -- "hotbed" of Lyme disease. We have deer everywhere. Lyme, CT is where the disease became known as an emerging infectious disorder several years ago -- hence, the name, Lyme disease. 

My husband is very much an outdoorsman, and has had it three times! Fortunately, he had such a text-book case each time that he was treated (successfully!) without even having a blood test to confirm. Besides feeling miserable, he had the infamous bull's eye rash that can occur at or near the site of the tick bite -- he was lucky, as this rash is absolutely indicative. 
But many people just don't develop that rash.

The treatment is 21 days of the antibiotic, doxycycline.

He now uses proper precaution -- DEET when outdoors in his massive vegetable garden (which is adjacent to woods that are loaded with deer) and a self-check every night.

FYI, he had no idea that he'd been bitten by a tick during any of those three episodes of Lyme disease.  The tick only has to be embedded and engorged on you for 24 hours -- and they're tiny -- so it's very easy to miss them.

At any rate, the blood test is notoriously inaccurate.

It's a two part test -- if the first part, the ELISA test, is positive (a completely non-specific test, which can also be false positive or false negative for a variety of reasons), the lab will automatically perform the second part of the test -- the Western blot. That shows the number of IgG and IgM components that are activated. Based on history and symptoms, Lyme disease can be a suspected diagnosis when there are enough elevations ("bands") of the IgG and IgM antibody levels in the second part of the test.

But -- it's all INACCURATE -- and doctors know that.

If you think there's any chance of Lyme disease -- if you're at risk due to living in an area where deer are abundant, and/or if you have a dog or an outdoor cat (they can bring the ticks into the house -- and they can also become very ill with Lyme disease!) , your doctor should take your concern very seriously.  Untreated Lyme disease can have severe consequences.

Just want to emphasize -- Lyme disease and POIS have nothing to do with each other. 

Also, true chronic fatigue syndrome (there are definite criteria) has nothing to do with POIS.  Go to http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?action=search2 for specific information about chronic fatigue syndrome.

By the way, Desperate Man -- I have a suspicion that ticks are attracted to certain aspects of an individual's body chemistry, as are mosquitoes.  I've never had a tick bite, despite being outdoors in MY garden all summer.  Yet, the mosquitoes gravitate to me. If there is one mosquito -- it will find me and land!  However, they ignore my husband completely, unlike the ticks.

Kurtosis -- re: your statement about explaining to the physician about the inaccuracy of Lyme disease testing:
"Funny / tragic thing is, if you explained to your doctor, they'd probably just view it as greater evidence of hypochondria / anxiety."  --

I agree with you, just for the record.  Great point!  And pathetically sad, also.


Stef


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Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16968 on: 16/07/2012 22:30:56 »
Good post Tony! I have been suspecting Lyme for a long time which includes a severe deficiency of B12.
You give hope.
I was tested for Lyme and it was negative.  However, some tests are not accurate due to the evolution of lyme disease.  My physician went over the lab results with me and we both determined that Lyme disease was not a factor in my case and the very expensive, accurate lab was not ordered.  If you believe Lyme may be responsible for some of your symptoms you can easily get a Lyme test.

"We are told by manufacturers, health departments and clinics that the Lyme ELISA tests are good, useful tests, but in two blinded studies that tested laboratories for accuracy, they failed miserably. Lorie Bakken, MS/MPH, showed in her studies that there was not only inaccuracy and inconsistency between competing laboratories, but also between identical triple samples sent to the same lab. In other words, identical samples often resulted in different results! In the first study, forty-five labs correctly identified the samples only 55% of the time.

In the latest study by the College of American Pathologists, 516 labs were tested. The overall result was terrible! There were almost equal numbers of false positives as false negatives. Overall, the labs were 55% inaccurate. The labs could only give a correct result 45% of the time. You are actually better off to flip a coin!"

I have been bit by those **ckers more than 4 times in my life.I have nearly all the symptoms.Many CFS sufferers have Lyme but have not been diagnosed yet.The last time I went cycling with a friend and got bit by a tic.I asked my friend and he has never had any tic bites while those little bastards find me everytime I go near a forrest.Somehow I attract them but why? Body odour?
I believe there is a lab in California that does a very accurate Lyme test, however, it is very expensive.  The ELISA checks for antibodies on a lab clone of the borreliosis bacteria.  The problem is that the wild species of borreliosis have quickly evolved making many of the antigens on the lab strain irrelevant to the actual antigens on the wild strains.

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Offline desperate man

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16969 on: 17/07/2012 12:02:19 »
Just had O 15 minutes ago.Surprisingly the ejaculation felt good then immediately then muscle weakness,hand arms legs shaking.It has settled down but I still feel pain in every muscle and weakness,fatigue.Some brain fog.
I know a guy who is very smart.Doctors call him when they're unable to diagnose/treat a patient who has rare diseases like CFS/ME he finds the root cause of the problems and cures the patients.
He also acts like Dr. House but not because it's fun,because he has REAL Asperger's.Won't answer my PM-s tried it hundreds of times.On another forum he answered this (speaking about POIS):

"Just had a great conversation with one of the actually researchers who have published papers on pub med about Dopamine and RDS as well as gene expression. The reason why people keep relapsing is due to gene expression in the DRD2 on the A1 allele which causes a down regulation of receptors to dopamine which encourages high risk behavior to stimulate dopamine response. I am working on finding a solution to these equation with I may have come up with. The research present may also help people post finasteride with drawl as well."

"75% of Asian have the gene present of the drd2 which is associated with addictive behavior. This goes back to reward deficiency syndrome and low dopamine levels or worse off dopamine resistance."

I'm pretty sure I have this reward deficiency because I have multiple addictions and it does feel like I'm only doing it to get that "high" feeling which is a somewhat normal dopamine level that I can only enjoy for like 10 seconds after an orgasm and I return to the original low dopamine state with fatigue,brain fog and muscle weakness.
Well this is all.I will start abstaining again.Right now nausea,panicky feeling,pressure in head.I feel like I have to throw up. :-\

edit: 2 hours passed.Today I realized and accepted why some people choose vasectomy.I am severly fatigued after the O and bed ridden.
« Last Edit: 17/07/2012 18:56:55 by desperate man »

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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16970 on: 17/07/2012 17:14:03 »
Anyway, for the first time in 20 years, I have no noticeable POIS symptoms. I'm taking Gingko, Huperzine and a high-strength b complex with active co-enzymes of b12 and b6. I'm also taking krill oil. The Huperzine seems to have sorted out the eye problem. I didn't take it yesterday morning and the eye control problem was back. 200mcg of it and within 10 minutes it's fixed and my memory is greatly improved. I've had 4 O's in a week with no diminishment in cognitive performance.

kurtosis, I am following your strategy.  I have bought all the supplements you have mentioned and have begun taking them mostly with the doses suggested by the labels.  You've mentioned that you take a more that the suggested dose, saying you take probably twice what I do.

Could you list the doses of each specific supplement/herb/vitamin that you are taking, so that I can replicate your regimen?  I don't have access to the same B-complexes you do, so I'd love to know the doses of the particular items of importance in those pills.  You also mention "active co-enzymes" of b6 and b12, and I dont know what those are.  I have been supplementing b6 and b12 separately in addition to taking a B-complex.  Otherwise I have all the other items you'v mentioned you use

I saw you have had great success in reducing your mental symptoms and I would love to have the same results!

Thanks!

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16971 on: 17/07/2012 20:10:48 »
Anyway, for the first time in 20 years, I have no noticeable POIS symptoms. I'm taking Gingko, Huperzine and a high-strength b complex with active co-enzymes of b12 and b6. I'm also taking krill oil. The Huperzine seems to have sorted out the eye problem. I didn't take it yesterday morning and the eye control problem was back. 200mcg of it and within 10 minutes it's fixed and my memory is greatly improved. I've had 4 O's in a week with no diminishment in cognitive performance.

kurtosis, I am following your strategy.  I have bought all the supplements you have mentioned and have begun taking them mostly with the doses suggested by the labels.  You've mentioned that you take a more that the suggested dose, saying you take probably twice what I do.

Could you list the doses of each specific supplement/herb/vitamin that you are taking, so that I can replicate your regimen?  I don't have access to the same B-complexes you do, so I'd love to know the doses of the particular items of importance in those pills.  You also mention "active co-enzymes" of b6 and b12, and I dont know what those are.  I have been supplementing b6 and b12 separately in addition to taking a B-complex.  Otherwise I have all the other items you'v mentioned you use

I saw you have had great success in reducing your mental symptoms and I would love to have the same results!

Thanks!
Coenzymated b vitamins include methylcobalamin (active b12) and pyramidal 5 phosphate (p5p, active b6). These are available in a b complex from solgar and Now Foods. The solgar one has some non-active form of the vitamins. The Now Foods one doesn't. I find the active coenzymated forms easier to take. With the non-coenzymated forms I sometimes feel a bit nauseous after taking them.
I'm only taking 200mcg of Huperzine A once a day and 90mg of ginkgo twice and 3 times on alternate days (so 180mg some days and 270 others).

I also take vitamin c (1g / day) and krill oil (2 caps / day). I take spirulina also but I tend to put it in smoothies or drink it and it's really only if I didn't get a lot of protein that day. I always take spirulina after an O. The protein seems to help me recover.


Ages ago, I remember taking something called "BrainQuick" which contained huperzine, vinpocetine, b vitamins and some amino acids. It definitely had a beneficial effect but it was 1) expensive 2) I needed quite a lot of it and 3) the precise amount of each of the nutrients was not specified. I wish someone would produce an exact huperzine, ginkgo, coenzymated b + protein supplement so I could just take one thing and not be carting lots of pills around with me. I've even considered getting a commercial lab to formulate something.

Apart from that, I don't know what to say. I feel much better. Is it having any affect at all?

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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16972 on: 17/07/2012 22:46:38 »
How much of the B complex are you taking?  That would be my last dosage question.

Also, are you still taking Magnesium and Zinc

With B6, B12, Krill, Magnesium and Zing I have definitely felt different.  I have been abstaining for the past 2 weeks because I became quite depressed and needed to back off the sexual activity, so I can't tell you if I have reduced POIS symptoms.  As far as my other health issues go, I had a very interesting few experiences where I was able to feel anger and act on it.  For the majority of my life, I have been very passive and felt like I had become numb to my anger in order to avoid conflict.  This has been a bad thing, but the past week I have been able to act upon subtle feelings of anger with positive results.  Some people might not see this as positive but I definitely do lol!  I have had such an issue expressing my anger thus resulting in depression.

This has been the main positive effect.  Other than that, I have felt "different" in ways I can't quite describe, which is why I'm wondering if I need to increase my dosing to really see what is being effected.

Bottom line is it has given me desire to keep it up!

I am taking medications for my psychiatric issues which could be making this hard for me to figure out what is going on.  I want to pick up those Coenzymated vitamins.  I'll let you know how I do!

P.S.: Join poiscenter.com/forums!  Demo will make sure you get thru the spam filter :)

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16973 on: 18/07/2012 01:53:17 »
Krill Oil.
I have in the past taken fish oil capsules (good quality brand) and never noticed anything for the better while on them, so was off and on them over the years. Recently I have started taking a good quality distilled artic cod liver oil which has DHA/EPA/Omega3.
I have been reading good things about krill oil, but then I have also read other articles that say that while its is a great supplement it is over hyped and over priced compared to regular fish oils. I realise its hard to isolate a specific item, when one is taking multiple supplements, but for those that are taking Krill oil, do you think it is any better than fish oil, just from personal experience?

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16974 on: 18/07/2012 07:11:51 »
Krill Oil.
I have in the past taken fish oil capsules (good quality brand) and never noticed anything for the better while on them, so was off and on them over the years. Recently I have started taking a good quality distilled artic cod liver oil which has DHA/EPA/Omega3.
I have been reading good things about krill oil, but then I have also read other articles that say that while its is a great supplement it is over hyped and over priced compared to regular fish oils. I realise its hard to isolate a specific item, when one is taking multiple supplements, but for those that are taking Krill oil, do you think it is any better than fish oil, just from personal experience?


I've taken fish oil very consistently for a very long time.  I switched over to krill oil for a week or so a couple months back and couldn't tell much of a difference.  Perhaps a week wasn't long enough, but I stopped using it because I wasn't seeing any additional improvement.
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16975 on: 18/07/2012 08:34:19 »
How much of the B complex are you taking?  That would be my last dosage question.

Also, are you still taking Magnesium and Zinc

With B6, B12, Krill, Magnesium and Zing I have definitely felt different.  I have been abstaining for the past 2 weeks because I became quite depressed and needed to back off the sexual activity, so I can't tell you if I have reduced POIS symptoms.  As far as my other health issues go, I had a very interesting few experiences where I was able to feel anger and act on it.  For the majority of my life, I have been very passive and felt like I had become numb to my anger in order to avoid conflict.  This has been a bad thing, but the past week I have been able to act upon subtle feelings of anger with positive results.  Some people might not see this as positive but I definitely do lol!  I have had such an issue expressing my anger thus resulting in depression.

This has been the main positive effect.  Other than that, I have felt "different" in ways I can't quite describe, which is why I'm wondering if I need to increase my dosing to really see what is being effected.

Bottom line is it has given me desire to keep it up!

I am taking medications for my psychiatric issues which could be making this hard for me to figure out what is going on.  I want to pick up those Coenzymated vitamins.  I'll let you know how I do!

P.S.: Join poiscenter.com/forums!  Demo will make sure you get thru the spam filter :)

I still take ZMA most nights. If I don't, then I don't remember my dreams. I've said before that, for whatever reason, when I have dream recall I'm much more productive the next day. I'll PM you with a link to the b-supplement I take.  It has CoQ10 and ALA as well as b vitamins. It's available from some "major online retailers" :)

Querctin and bilobalide have been shown to have neurogenic effects (not in people as yet I think) but my understanding is that people who get a boost from ginkgo have generally being using it for quite a while. A relative of mine said it took 6 months for a really dramatic improvement in memory. I don't think it's a good idea to just take lots of ginkgo or huperzine (>200mcg for instance) as there are reports on internet fora of people becoming quite manic when they did that. Steady consumption with some days off are best.

Ideally, I'd just keep taking the B's, add the ginkgo every day and take some huperzine A every time my eyes bother me. I wish I had just 1 pill to deliver the improvement I want but I've found 1 website where you can do this and I'd have to test whatever they shipped to know it was what I asked for.
 
I have joined poiscenter forums. However, I only check there once a week. I'm sorry I haven't posted much.  I have a lot to do and I look at other NSF threads so this is 1 that I stop by every day or so.

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Offline FireCat

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16976 on: 19/07/2012 00:02:27 »
So, I've been on Niacin and B12 for a week now.

I do say that Niacin works great on me, but I'm not sure whether this can be a total cure.
I have flush on my skin for the first time today, and I have to adjust the amount I take.

Otherwise, they reduced back and neck pains after orgasm, and I appreciated the effect.
The downside seems to be that they seem to raise sexual appetite, and it was hard for me to go without some ejaculation during the week. I was gradually getting dull when I beared from it for several days.

Hopefully, I can soon find a point to comporomise.

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16977 on: 19/07/2012 06:02:40 »
I'd like to re-post and say that Wellbutrin, taking one 150mg XR pill every 3 days, works quite well.  I feel 50-75% better and am more productive than ever.  To those of you with Constant POIS, this is a game-changer.
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16978 on: 19/07/2012 10:41:18 »
I'd like to re-post and say that Wellbutrin, taking one 150mg XR pill every 3 days, works quite well.  I feel 50-75% better and am more productive than ever.  To those of you with Constant POIS, this is a game-changer.
As it's mentioned in the study below, if you're taking testosterone at the same time it can help. T participates in the antidepressant action of a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor (Wellbutrin is also a NRI).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15301926

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16979 on: 19/07/2012 15:39:03 »
I'd like to re-post and say that Wellbutrin, taking one 150mg XR pill every 3 days, works quite well.  I feel 50-75% better and am more productive than ever.  To those of you with Constant POIS, this is a game-changer.
As it's mentioned in the study below, if you're taking testosterone at the same time it can help. T participates in the antidepressant action of a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor (Wellbutrin is also a NRI).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15301926

Perhaps that's so, but I stopped taking Testosterone 2 months ago and the Wellbutrin, only taken 1 per 3 days, still helps a lot.
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16980 on: 19/07/2012 19:00:08 »
I'd like to re-post and say that Wellbutrin, taking one 150mg XR pill every 3 days, works quite well.  I feel 50-75% better and am more productive than ever.  To those of you with Constant POIS, this is a game-changer.
As it's mentioned in the study below, if you're taking testosterone at the same time it can help. T participates in the antidepressant action of a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor (Wellbutrin is also a NRI).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15301926
noradrenaline and dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16981 on: 20/07/2012 08:35:29 »
Krill Oil.
I have in the past taken fish oil capsules (good quality brand) and never noticed anything for the better while on them, so was off and on them over the years. Recently I have started taking a good quality distilled artic cod liver oil which has DHA/EPA/Omega3.
I have been reading good things about krill oil, but then I have also read other articles that say that while its is a great supplement it is over hyped and over priced compared to regular fish oils. I realise its hard to isolate a specific item, when one is taking multiple supplements, but for those that are taking Krill oil, do you think it is any better than fish oil, just from personal experience?

I think it's better BUT it tends to be very expensive (2-3 times what other many fish oils cost) and I'm not convinced of the freshness of all KO supplements I've taken. The ones that help reduce POIS don't smell rancid. The slightly rancid smell (if that's possible) seems to indicate that key ingredients have degraded, perhaps the astaxanthin.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16982 on: 20/07/2012 08:51:33 »
How much of the B complex are you taking?  That would be my last dosage question.

Also, are you still taking Magnesium and Zinc

With B6, B12, Krill, Magnesium and Zing I have definitely felt different.  I have been abstaining for the past 2 weeks because I became quite depressed and needed to back off the sexual activity, so I can't tell you if I have reduced POIS symptoms.  As far as my other health issues go, I had a very interesting few experiences where I was able to feel anger and act on it.  For the majority of my life, I have been very passive and felt like I had become numb to my anger in order to avoid conflict.  This has been a bad thing, but the past week I have been able to act upon subtle feelings of anger with positive results.  Some people might not see this as positive but I definitely do lol!  I have had such an issue expressing my anger thus resulting in depression.

This has been the main positive effect.  Other than that, I have felt "different" in ways I can't quite describe, which is why I'm wondering if I need to increase my dosing to really see what is being effected.

Bottom line is it has given me desire to keep it up!

I am taking medications for my psychiatric issues which could be making this hard for me to figure out what is going on.  I want to pick up those Coenzymated vitamins.  I'll let you know how I do!

P.S.: Join poiscenter.com/forums!  Demo will make sure you get thru the spam filter :)

I still take ZMA most nights. If I don't, then I don't remember my dreams. I've said before that, for whatever reason, when I have dream recall I'm much more productive the next day. I'll PM you with a link to the b-supplement I take.  It has CoQ10 and ALA as well as b vitamins. It's available from some "major online retailers" :)

Querctin and bilobalide have been shown to have neurogenic effects (not in people as yet I think) but my understanding is that people who get a boost from ginkgo have generally being using it for quite a while. A relative of mine said it took 6 months for a really dramatic improvement in memory. I don't think it's a good idea to just take lots of ginkgo or huperzine (>200mcg for instance) as there are reports on internet fora of people becoming quite manic when they did that. Steady consumption with some days off are best.

Ideally, I'd just keep taking the B's, add the ginkgo every day and take some huperzine A every time my eyes bother me. I wish I had just 1 pill to deliver the improvement I want but I've found 1 website where you can do this and I'd have to test whatever they shipped to know it was what I asked for.
 
I have joined poiscenter forums. However, I only check there once a week. I'm sorry I haven't posted much.  I have a lot to do and I look at other NSF threads so this is 1 that I stop by every day or so.

It's still working :) Feel great.
I priced up an all-in-1 formula, less the fish oil, on vitaganic.com but the cost was steep. An average of around $45 month. I'll going to keep trying the individual supplements for a few more weeks and make 100% sure that I still feel as great then as I do now before making that kind of investment.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16983 on: 20/07/2012 13:22:06 »
Perhaps that's so, but I stopped taking Testosterone 2 months ago and the Wellbutrin, only taken 1 per 3 days, still helps a lot.
Thanks for reporting. 3 POIS cases (old members) (or more) tried Wellbutrin, I don't know the dosage. One had a bad reaction and had to stop, an other had no effect on his POIS, and the third had a positive effect but not enough. An other example that everyone must do his own experience. Hope you'll keep us updated.


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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16984 on: 21/07/2012 00:08:55 »

It's still working :) Feel great.
I priced up an all-in-1 formula, less the fish oil, on vitaganic.com but the cost was steep. An average of around $45 month. I'll going to keep trying the individual supplements for a few more weeks and make 100% sure that I still feel as great then as I do now before making that kind of investment.

So far so good for me, I'm feeling better physically for sure, and mentally pretty sure...  I have experienced something I'll call "mental numbness" after taking something, probably Magnesium Zinc or B6.  I wonder if Lithium is suppressing my cognitive improvement off these supplements.  Lithium is known to cause confusion.  I take Seroquel which causes somnolence and generally fatigues me on both physical and mental levels.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16985 on: 21/07/2012 01:10:03 »
B_Daniel, I read that wellbutrin has an effect similar to that of amphetamine type stimulants and I was wondering how your experience with wellbutrin compares to the effects you got from ritalin.

The fact that Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor makes me weary of considering taking it since Effexor, also a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, gave me so many bad side effects.

I'm glad that it's helping you though.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline fidalgo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16986 on: 21/07/2012 02:51:46 »
Good Night. I am with a doubt. I see a lot of you saying about Constant POIS but I don't understand if i have it or not.

My case is that my symptoms improve a lot without ejaculation but I never feel normal. When you say that your POIS is over after 7 days, are you saying that the most symptoms improve or that you are normal after 7 days? I have a wonderful improve after 7 days but I never seem to be normal. My problem with food, for example, never ends. This is constant POIS?

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16987 on: 21/07/2012 08:15:42 »
B_Daniel, I read that wellbutrin has an effect similar to that of amphetamine type stimulants and I was wondering how your experience with wellbutrin compares to the effects you got from ritalin.

The fact that Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor makes me weary of considering taking it since Effexor, also a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, gave me so many bad side effects.

I'm glad that it's helping you though.

Thanks Vincent M.  I think the benefit I get from Wellbutrin is similar in many ways to that which I've gotten from Ritalin.  Here's the difference - Ritalin I get scared to take.   It's like a commitment.  It only lasts 6 hours and even at very low doses it's too intense for me.  Also, Ritalin sometimes clears my head and other times doesn't.  I take 1 Wellbutrin and I feel the effect for 3 days.  It works every time, and I never get scared to take it but rather excited to soon feel pretty good again.  Also, I don't know a ton about wellbutrin, but i've heard it's chemically very different from anything else out there - so I wouldn't paint it with the same brush as all norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.  In regards to your 3rd point, the Effexor having bad side effects, I address that below.   

Martin - There are mixed reviews of Wellbutrin.  Demo took it for one day and it didn't agree with his body.  But on the whole, the ppl that don't speak highly of it are those that took it for 6+ weeks.  I'd venture to guess very few of us have tried to take it in the method I suggest.  By taking it 1 day on, 3 days off, you shouldn't see the same side effects.  Also, you can always stop taking it very easily, with no withdrawal period, as by taking it so infrequently you never allow the drug to build up in your body. 

I'll repeat this 100 times, Wellbutrin isn't perfect, but for the first time, I'm beginning to feel like I'm getting my life back. 
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16988 on: 21/07/2012 11:06:22 »
B_Daniel, I read that wellbutrin has an effect similar to that of amphetamine type stimulants and I was wondering how your experience with wellbutrin compares to the effects you got from ritalin.

The fact that Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor makes me weary of considering taking it since Effexor, also a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, gave me so many bad side effects.

I'm glad that it's helping you though.

Thanks Vincent M.  I think the benefit I get from Wellbutrin is similar in many ways to that which I've gotten from Ritalin.  Here's the difference - Ritalin I get scared to take.   It's like a commitment.  It only lasts 6 hours and even at very low doses it's too intense for me.  Also, Ritalin sometimes clears my head and other times doesn't.  I take 1 Wellbutrin and I feel the effect for 3 days.  It works every time, and I never get scared to take it but rather excited to soon feel pretty good again.  Also, I don't know a ton about wellbutrin, but i've heard it's chemically very different from anything else out there - so I wouldn't paint it with the same brush as all norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.  In regards to your 3rd point, the Effexor having bad side effects, I address that below.   

Martin - There are mixed reviews of Wellbutrin.  Demo took it for one day and it didn't agree with his body.  But on the whole, the ppl that don't speak highly of it are those that took it for 6+ weeks.  I'd venture to guess very few of us have tried to take it in the method I suggest.  By taking it 1 day on, 3 days off, you shouldn't see the same side effects.  Also, you can always stop taking it very easily, with no withdrawal period, as by taking it so infrequently you never allow the drug to build up in your body. 

I'll repeat this 100 times, Wellbutrin isn't perfect, but for the first time, I'm beginning to feel like I'm getting my life back. 

Hi,
Just like to make a few points on this.
1) Wellbutrin will increase your dopamine levels. That makes it a very different treatment to the SSRI anti-depressants most of us have been prescribed for POIS. It's also very different to ritalin and will have very different long term side effects from its use. Even if someone told me ritalin would cure POIS I'd be very worried about taking it long term.

In all the technical details I posted about prostaglandins etc. it appears plausible that dopamine and other catecholamines are out of balance and wellbutrin would help fix that. If anybody has been sent to a psychiatrist to treat their POIS then they could do a lot worse than asking them if they could try wellbutrin.

2) Anyone who has a severe neurochemical balance problem (which an O might be triggering in POIS) could suffer a really bad reaction the first time they take a treatment that may work very well in the long run. One of the big problems is that the number of receptors for neurotransmitters in the brain reduces when there's too little of the neurotransmitter in the brain. The brain strives for efficiency and tries to do more with less but it can't work miracles so the sufferer feels flat, depressed, slow-thinking etc. The treatment increases the levels of neurotransmitters which floods your brain initially. Psychiatrists do their best to vary doses to find the right level but it's not exact and everyone is different.

This is a known problem with some other anti-depressants where someone can experience severe mood swings and may feel physically sick in the first few days. It's not a reason to stop taking it and you should consult the psychiatrist who prescribed it immediately.

I don't think anybody could write off the benefit of wellbutrin to them without trying it first _under medical supervision_

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Offline msl

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16989 on: 21/07/2012 14:29:27 »
Hey everyone,

I'd like to introduce myself. I have actually been on and off visiting and reading the posts on this forum for many years. Well, I found it a while back but then stopped visiting for a period. I first noticed POIS when I was about 15. At first I would be perhaps at most 2 days ill afterward... but then over time this grew to the present 7 days. My complaints are exclusively cognitive. I feel very very slow mentally with difficulty concentrating.... well actually no... I can concentrate but everything requires much much more effort mentally than usual and sometimes I am unable to accomplish what would normally be trivial. Recalling information becomes hard. I have difficulty speaking and recalling words. This was particularly frustrating when I had a nocturnal emission before my german oral exams at school. My behaviour becomes completely different. I am admittedly a bastard to everyone around me. I first shared it with my parents when I become extremely bitter/angry/depressed when I had a nocturnal emission very shortly before a large chemistry A-level exam. As you have probably guessed, I do not masturbate and have no partner, hence why I have these nocturnal emissions from time to time. I shared it with my parents back then but they were largely skeptical and even to this day they think it is all in my head and accuse me of being a hypochondriac. I went to the Doctor and he gave me Prozac primarily because of the side-effect which decreases libido, for the purpose that this would lower the frequency of NEs. I took that for a while and then stopped. I revisited the doctor then at university to try and push this all further and was met with scepticism and disbelief. I guess I visited two more doctors at this stage. I had my first year exams at university and I had more NEs due to the stress. I complained to my parents but all they said was "Well its just the stress" "Its the stress thats doing this...". I visited the mental health counsellor at university and she was the first to take me seriously. She referred me to a genitourinary specialist at the erectile dysfunction place at the hospital who gave me a physical exam and quickly passed me on to another specialist, namely a sexual psychotherapist. He again tried to tell me that this is all in my head. At this point, even I was beginning to question my own judgement and sanity. I figured... maybe I should just lighten up and have sex.. for fun. But obviously this did not work. At this point, I was so fed up and despairing with all of the doctors I had seen (I had visited other GPs in between), so I gave up. I dont engage in any sexual activity whatsoever. I gave up on the hope of a relationship with a girl. I accepted that I would be alone in life. And what is more, I would even be happy in this life, if it were not for these NEs happening still. I went back to prozac and then went off it again. I distinctly remember a very ill week in my 3rd year of university, on the week when my first exams would begin. I worked so hard for these exams and then an NE, I was incensed. I stopped reading this forum at a point because there were really so many different "remedies" that people had come up with that it was becoming a bit ridiculous (i don't mean to offend). It seems everyone was clutching at straws and out of desperation latching on to something which claimed to help. If a medical practitioner saw this and didn't give it any credibility, I would forgive him for that. It seems anything from wheat-grass to herbs to anticonvulsants to antihistamines to hormone injections are helping people. This does not give our condition any credibility, in fact, it makes it lose credibility. That there are so many different remedies suggests that this is a psychological condition, when everyone here knows that it certainly is not! I think that peoples judgement on something helping is biased by their absolute desperation and hope that it will help.  If this is a real objective condition then there is an absolute etiology for these symptoms and hence there must exist a definite mechanism by which a medication would help, they cannot all be working.

I have been in touch with two guys, namely, victor and juan-pablo. They have been very supportive and from them I have learned about Niacin and the recent papers. I am curious about the autoimmune hypothesis proposed by Waldinger. However, I am still sceptical. Firstly, symptoms are supposed to alleviate with desensitization treatment. But I've already been exposing my body to my own semen for years, without it getting better! This does not agree with Waldinger. Secondly, there was no control group in his work, he explicitly mentions this in his paper:

"Although the current study supports our
hypothesis of an immunogenic reactivity against
autologous semen, the current study contains an
important limitation due to the current prelimi-
nary observational design. One of the main ques-
tions that still needs answering is whether clinical
and immunogenic responses post-ejaculation are
different in two intentionally recruited groups,
e.g., individuals with POIS criteria vs. a control
group. In other words, the current study does not
provide data on sensitivity and specificity of skin-
***** testing in POIS. Another intriguing question
is whether hyperreactivity against autologous
semen is confined to POIS or to a common phe-
nomenon in the general population.
"

Put it this way, what would a skin-test show on a normal person with no POIS symptoms? It would not surprise me if they too had a reaction, afterall, semen is not meant to be injected directly into the bloodstream. Moreover, he concludes that it is a semen allergy because men to stopped before ejaculating did not experience the symptoms. For me personally, ejaculation coincides with orgasm. So why could it not in fact be the orgasm that is causing POIS and not the ejaculation?

I am personally worried about the auto-immune hypothesis. Auto-immune responses are always to do with inflammation. I would be very worried if it were the brain that is becoming inflamed and is causing these cognitive defects. I would like to ask if anyone has had an MRI scan WHILST IN POIS to see if there is anything abnormal. In Waldingers papers with the two case studies it says that nothing normal is observed in the MRI, but it does not say whether the patient is in a POIS episode or not.

I scored the highest mark in A-level chemistry in the end, I was also given the sixth form prize for mathematics and performance in A-levels. I recently got a masters in physics and was awarded the departmental prize for performance in examinations. Now I have a fellowship to do a PhD in the US. As I gave up on a regular life and relationship, my mind is my most treasured asset. Recently a dangerous idea has began to grow in my mind, that these POIS symptoms might cause damage and that it is not 100% reversible after 7 days (again, symptoms peak in 2 days). I cannot seem to shake this idea and it is really troubling me, as I don't feel as sharp as I used to be...

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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16990 on: 21/07/2012 15:28:16 »
IT WORKS.

That in short is the message I am saying today about the vitamin regimin that our friend *kurtosis* has been working on and taking himself.  After taking the supplements he has been recommending for 2-3 weeks, I decided to have an orgasm *without niacin* and there were VIRTUALLY NO SYMPTOMS.  I'd say I was safely 90 to 95% better then after an "O" without any treatment!

I've been moving more towards the vitamin deficiency/absorption hypothesis after trying to figure out why the niacin flush helps us, and kurtosis has provided a coherent theory and treatment that works for me.  You should try it and see if it works for you.

kurtosis and myself both believe that the post-orgasm symptoms are not the only symptoms we face from this issue, and that there might be more benefit in the future with continued use of these vitamins/herbs.  I will be continuing my supplementation and I will be happy to answer more about this to anyone interested!

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16991 on: 21/07/2012 20:00:36 »
IT WORKS.

That in short is the message I am saying today about the vitamin regimin that our friend *kurtosis* has been working on and taking himself.  After taking the supplements he has been recommending for 2-3 weeks, I decided to have an orgasm *without niacin* and there were VIRTUALLY NO SYMPTOMS.  I'd say I was safely 90 to 95% better then after an "O" without any treatment!

I've been moving more towards the vitamin deficiency/absorption hypothesis after trying to figure out why the niacin flush helps us, and kurtosis has provided a coherent theory and treatment that works for me.  You should try it and see if it works for you.

kurtosis and myself both believe that the post-orgasm symptoms are not the only symptoms we face from this issue, and that there might be more benefit in the future with continued use of these vitamins/herbs.  I will be continuing my supplementation and I will be happy to answer more about this to anyone interested!

That is the best news I've heard this month!  Congratulations Nightingale!
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline Prancer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16992 on: 21/07/2012 20:26:12 »
I know! Kurtosis, you rock for figuring that recipe out! :) I'm anxious to try it out and am ordering the ingredients now. I hope it works for me and for many others, but one never knows because everyone's different. Still gonna try out it though. Niacin doesn't work that well for me, even at 600mg.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16993 on: 22/07/2012 00:53:08 »
I know! Kurtosis, you rock for figuring that recipe out! :) I'm anxious to try it out and am ordering the ingredients now. I hope it works for me and for many others, but one never knows because everyone's different. Still gonna try out it though. Niacin doesn't work that well for me, even at 600mg.

I can't promise it will work guys. However, can I suggest 2 things if you're going to go down this route.
1) don't give up on the supplements after a few days. If you buy them, take each for the month or so of capsules in the bottle (as directed) and don't expect an overnight cure.
2) get some aerobic exercise (long walks is enough) and try to calm some of your anxiety about POIS. I know this is incredibly difficult but you have give your brain some time to heal and cortisol from anxiety and stress will, in itself, prevent you from getting over POIS.

The stress of knowing that you have an illness that's affecting your cognitive ability will _itself_ harm you. You have to somehow deal with it and exercise like brisk walking can help reduce your cortisol levels. 

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16994 on: 22/07/2012 08:35:55 »
I tracked down all the ingredients today - with the exception of huperzine which i'll find tomorrow or order online- and i'm going to give your recipe a real shot, Kurtosis.  I have a lot of respect for both you and Nightingale, so I'm hopeful that this helps!  I'll keep everyone posted.
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16995 on: 22/07/2012 13:24:39 »
I complained to my parents but all they said was "Well its just the stress" "Its the stress thats doing this...". I visited the mental health counsellor at university and she was the first to take me seriously. She referred me to a genitourinary specialist at the erectile dysfunction place at the hospital who gave me a physical exam and quickly passed me on to another specialist, namely a sexual psychotherapist.
He again tried to tell me that this is all in my head.
Hi, I think they say it's stress because it's stress, but they're missing the whole picture, the problem is our tolerance to stress, and this is a physical part in my opinion. To illustrate what I'm saying: women will cry easily while men won't for the same thing. When this is happening, is it psychological? Yes there's always a triggering event , but still women are crying more often than men and there's obviously something hormonal behind it.

I gave up on the hope of a relationship with a girl. I accepted that I would be alone in life.
Don't give up! There's a woman for each possible kind of men in this world.

If a medical practitioner saw this and didn't give it any credibility, I would forgive him for that. It seems anything from wheat-grass to herbs to anticonvulsants to antihistamines to hormone injections are helping people. This does not give our condition any credibility, in fact, it makes it lose credibility.
That there are so many different remedies suggests that this is a psychological condition, when everyone here knows that it certainly is not! I think that peoples judgement on something helping is biased by their absolute desperation and hope that it will help.  If this is a real objective condition then there is an absolute etiology for these symptoms and hence there must exist a definite mechanism by which a medication would help, they cannot all be working.
I tought the same thing after reading some posts. I think some people are constantly in a state "very close from the cure" like an heart arrhythmia would come and go. When I was around 25 I could have frequent cure by just doing exercise or eating something but it was temporary. Now that I'm older I'm a lot more constant (never cured). At least you'll admit that some remedies are working better and more often than others. Stats are important for us. About credibility a lot of us didn't have some even before this forum anyway.

For me personally, ejaculation coincides with orgasm. So why could it not in fact be the orgasm that is causing POIS and not the ejaculation?
We don't know. I have a short and mild POIS from sexual activity without orgasm although that means nothing since there could be (for example) some neurons firing using energy in both cases.
« Last Edit: 22/07/2012 18:07:00 by martin88 »

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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16996 on: 22/07/2012 15:58:16 »
kurtosis, I've found the ZMA on a "major online retailer" :)  Says serving size is 3 capsules.  Is that how much you take?

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16997 on: 22/07/2012 16:08:05 »
kurtosis, I've found the ZMA on a "major online retailer" :)  Says serving size is 3 capsules.  Is that how much you take?
I take 750mg a night.  It's not necessary to take more ZMA when you're taking the b-co-enzymes.
You could also just buy zinc & magnesium and take these with a 2nd co-enzyme capsule. I've done this and it worked also (as in I remembered my dreams and felt good the next day). It's up to you.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16998 on: 22/07/2012 16:37:47 »
Hey everyone,

I'd like to introduce myself. I have actually been on and off visiting and reading the posts on this forum for many years. Well, I found it a while back but then stopped visiting for a period. I first noticed POIS when I was about 15. At first I would be perhaps at most 2 days ill afterward... but then over time this grew to the present 7 days. My complaints are exclusively cognitive. I feel very very slow mentally with difficulty concentrating.... well actually no... I can concentrate but everything requires much much more effort mentally than usual and sometimes I am unable to accomplish what would normally be trivial. Recalling information becomes hard. I have difficulty speaking and recalling words. This was particularly frustrating when I had a nocturnal emission before my german oral exams at school. My behaviour becomes completely different. I am admittedly a bastard to everyone around me. I first shared it with my parents when I become extremely bitter/angry/depressed when I had a nocturnal emission very shortly before a large chemistry A-level exam. As you have probably guessed, I do not masturbate and have no partner, hence why I have these nocturnal emissions from time to time. I shared it with my parents back then but they were largely skeptical and even to this day they think it is all in my head and accuse me of being a hypochondriac. I went to the Doctor and he gave me Prozac primarily because of the side-effect which decreases libido, for the purpose that this would lower the frequency of NEs. I took that for a while and then stopped. I revisited the doctor then at university to try and push this all further and was met with scepticism and disbelief. I guess I visited two more doctors at this stage. I had my first year exams at university and I had more NEs due to the stress. I complained to my parents but all they said was "Well its just the stress" "Its the stress thats doing this...". I visited the mental health counsellor at university and she was the first to take me seriously. She referred me to a genitourinary specialist at the erectile dysfunction place at the hospital who gave me a physical exam and quickly passed me on to another specialist, namely a sexual psychotherapist. He again tried to tell me that this is all in my head. At this point, even I was beginning to question my own judgement and sanity. I figured... maybe I should just lighten up and have sex.. for fun. But obviously this did not work. At this point, I was so fed up and despairing with all of the doctors I had seen (I had visited other GPs in between), so I gave up. I dont engage in any sexual activity whatsoever. I gave up on the hope of a relationship with a girl. I accepted that I would be alone in life. And what is more, I would even be happy in this life, if it were not for these NEs happening still. I went back to prozac and then went off it again. I distinctly remember a very ill week in my 3rd year of university, on the week when my first exams would begin. I worked so hard for these exams and then an NE, I was incensed. I stopped reading this forum at a point because there were really so many different "remedies" that people had come up with that it was becoming a bit ridiculous (i don't mean to offend). It seems everyone was clutching at straws and out of desperation latching on to something which claimed to help. If a medical practitioner saw this and didn't give it any credibility, I would forgive him for that. It seems anything from wheat-grass to herbs to anticonvulsants to antihistamines to hormone injections are helping people. This does not give our condition any credibility, in fact, it makes it lose credibility. That there are so many different remedies suggests that this is a psychological condition, when everyone here knows that it certainly is not! I think that peoples judgement on something helping is biased by their absolute desperation and hope that it will help.  If this is a real objective condition then there is an absolute etiology for these symptoms and hence there must exist a definite mechanism by which a medication would help, they cannot all be working.

I have been in touch with two guys, namely, victor and juan-pablo. They have been very supportive and from them I have learned about Niacin and the recent papers. I am curious about the autoimmune hypothesis proposed by Waldinger. However, I am still sceptical. Firstly, symptoms are supposed to alleviate with desensitization treatment. But I've already been exposing my body to my own semen for years, without it getting better! This does not agree with Waldinger. Secondly, there was no control group in his work, he explicitly mentions this in his paper:

"Although the current study supports our
hypothesis of an immunogenic reactivity against
autologous semen, the current study contains an
important limitation due to the current prelimi-
nary observational design. One of the main ques-
tions that still needs answering is whether clinical
and immunogenic responses post-ejaculation are
different in two intentionally recruited groups,
e.g., individuals with POIS criteria vs. a control
group. In other words, the current study does not
provide data on sensitivity and specificity of skin-
***** testing in POIS. Another intriguing question
is whether hyperreactivity against autologous
semen is confined to POIS or to a common phe-
nomenon in the general population.
"

Put it this way, what would a skin-test show on a normal person with no POIS symptoms? It would not surprise me if they too had a reaction, afterall, semen is not meant to be injected directly into the bloodstream. Moreover, he concludes that it is a semen allergy because men to stopped before ejaculating did not experience the symptoms. For me personally, ejaculation coincides with orgasm. So why could it not in fact be the orgasm that is causing POIS and not the ejaculation?

I am personally worried about the auto-immune hypothesis. Auto-immune responses are always to do with inflammation. I would be very worried if it were the brain that is becoming inflamed and is causing these cognitive defects. I would like to ask if anyone has had an MRI scan WHILST IN POIS to see if there is anything abnormal. In Waldingers papers with the two case studies it says that nothing normal is observed in the MRI, but it does not say whether the patient is in a POIS episode or not.

I scored the highest mark in A-level chemistry in the end, I was also given the sixth form prize for mathematics and performance in A-levels. I recently got a masters in physics and was awarded the departmental prize for performance in examinations. Now I have a fellowship to do a PhD in the US. As I gave up on a regular life and relationship, my mind is my most treasured asset. Recently a dangerous idea has began to grow in my mind, that these POIS symptoms might cause damage and that it is not 100% reversible after 7 days (again, symptoms peak in 2 days). I cannot seem to shake this idea and it is really troubling me, as I don't feel as sharp as I used to be...

I know what you mean that it must look chaotic for an outsider reading this site, and how it must appear that we have all bought into a myth that allows us to understand our difficuties in a more acceptable way. But the truth is, that isn't the truth. POIS, or whatever it is called that I have had all my life is very real, and maybe it is something a person can't imagine unless they have it. But until it is understood better we will always have a psychological illness in the minds of most health care providers. That shouldn't anger us, as we might have difficulty believing it if we didn't have it.

And yes desperate people will search high and low for answers. I think we have made some real progress finding things that will help us, and these will hopefully shed light on the cause of the problem, eventually. I have personally been helped by an anti-inflammatory diet, and fenugreek has also helped.

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Offline tonytwoton

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #16999 on: 22/07/2012 20:45:58 »
Just a quick update guys. After the initial period of extreme fatigue from taking b12 cyanocobalamin as well as oral methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin, I have suddenly noticed a large uptick in energy and cognitive performance as well as a small increase in libido. I think I am making progress because mentally, I have not felt this good in a long time. Still have not tried to have an O because still not strong enough yet. Nerves take a long time to heal so will keep you updated.