[kurtosis]

Still have not tried to have an O because still not strong enough yet. Nerves take a long time to heal so will keep you updated.

That's good news & I absolutely agree. Nobody is going to get better overnight.

[Itsthatskater]

Hey guys, Just checking back in. I have been doing my best to deal with my symptoms as best possible. I try to stay fully hydrated and eat right. I think it would be good to check out these products by the company Usana. The multivitamins in particular. I learned about it from a fighter named Chael Sonnen. He was diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism which causes his to have low testosterone. He complained to the doctor because he was getting sick several times a month. I think there is a possibility he could have POIS but was too embarrassed to announce it publicly. Now he is on Testosterone Replacement Therapy and is on the Usana Vitamins. I have scheduled my doctors appointment and im going to see if I can get my doctor to have my blood work done so I can see if I can get TRT. The problem is im only 16 years of age. I dont think any doctor in the world would believe I have Low testosterone. I missed over 20 days of school this year and well over half of those days was because I was dealing with POIS. It isnt right and is seriously affecting my life to the point where I dont want to go to sleep the day before A big event like A wrestling match or my birthday because I dont want to have a nocturnal emission.

[fidalgo]

Nightingale and Kurtosis, could you please explain in details the threatment are you doing? I don't understand well.

It would help if you make a post with the things you are using, the quantity, how many times a day, and the lab you bought.

Thanks

[Nightingale]

Nightingale and Kurtosis, could you please explain in details the threatment are you doing? I don't understand well.

It would help if you make a post with the things you are using, the quantity, how many times a day, and the lab you bought.

Thanks

First, thanks for the info kurtosis.  Fidalgo, I have posted in detail everything you are asking for on the other POIS forums.  You should register there, because from what I understand we can't talk about specific retailers/brands because of NSF forum policies.

You should register there anyways, because finding information like this is much easier there.  I will send you a private message with the link (we can't advertise our own forums on here also because of NSF rules)

[kurtosis]

Nightingale and Kurtosis, could you please explain in details the threatment are you doing? I don't understand well.

It would help if you make a post with the things you are using, the quantity, how many times a day, and the lab you bought.

Thanks

First, thanks for the info kurtosis.  Fidalgo, I have posted in detail everything you are asking for on the other POIS forums.  You should register there, because from what I understand we can't talk about specific retailers/brands because of NSF forum policies.

You should register there anyways, because finding information like this is much easier there.  I will send you a private message with the link (we can't advertise our own forums on here also because of NSF rules)

Yes, that's my understanding of the rules too. Must call over to the "other forum" and take a look at what's being discussed. Thanks Nightingale.

[Itsthatskater]

I took ZMA with no luck whatsoever.

[jferr]

Guys,

In my few years on these forums I have never actually spoken with someone, only written. I think we could help each other  a lot more if we stated having phone sessions. You can only be so detailed on the computer. I know some of us have difficulty speaking on the phone but it's ok because so do I.

If anyone with severe cognitive symptoms would like to speak on the phone I would be very interested. A vitamin regimen that I was taking a few months back helped me with this but recently I have gotten worse again. Anyone who has almost a schizophrenic-type of issue with communication please PM me. Examples are having trouble understanding, speaking, alertness, neurological issues, etc.

I look forward to hearing from everyone.

Thanks,

Jon.

[alphaq]

Just like to make a few points on this.
1) Wellbutrin will increase your dopamine levels. That makes it a very different treatment to the SSRI anti-depressants most of us have been prescribed for POIS. It's also very different to ritalin and will have very different long term side effects from its use. Even if someone told me ritalin would cure POIS I'd be very worried about taking it long term.

In all the technical details I posted about prostaglandins etc. it appears plausible that dopamine and other catecholamines are out of balance and wellbutrin would help fix that. If anybody has been sent to a psychiatrist to treat their POIS then they could do a lot worse than asking them if they could try wellbutrin.

2) Anyone who has a severe neurochemical balance problem (which an O might be triggering in POIS) could suffer a really bad reaction the first time they take a treatment that may work very well in the long run. One of the big problems is that the number of receptors for neurotransmitters in the brain reduces when there's too little of the neurotransmitter in the brain. The brain strives for efficiency and tries to do more with less but it can't work miracles so the sufferer feels flat, depressed, slow-thinking etc. The treatment increases the levels of neurotransmitters which floods your brain initially. Psychiatrists do their best to vary doses to find the right level but it's not exact and everyone is different.

This is a known problem with some other anti-depressants where someone can experience severe mood swings and may feel physically sick in the first few days. It's not a reason to stop taking it and you should consult the psychiatrist who prescribed it immediately.

I don't think anybody could write off the benefit of wellbutrin to them without trying it first _under medical supervision_

Hi Kurtosis,

Just curious - what were your symptoms of POIS? Was it mostly cognitive, and did you happen to have any pressure in the head like a lot of us do?

Thanks

[Itsthatskater]

This damn POIS is going to make me do something im going to regret.

[kurtosis]

Just like to make a few points on this.
1) Wellbutrin will increase your dopamine levels. That makes it a very different treatment to the SSRI anti-depressants most of us have been prescribed for POIS. It's also very different to ritalin and will have very different long term side effects from its use. Even if someone told me ritalin would cure POIS I'd be very worried about taking it long term.

In all the technical details I posted about prostaglandins etc. it appears plausible that dopamine and other catecholamines are out of balance and wellbutrin would help fix that. If anybody has been sent to a psychiatrist to treat their POIS then they could do a lot worse than asking them if they could try wellbutrin.

2) Anyone who has a severe neurochemical balance problem (which an O might be triggering in POIS) could suffer a really bad reaction the first time they take a treatment that may work very well in the long run. One of the big problems is that the number of receptors for neurotransmitters in the brain reduces when there's too little of the neurotransmitter in the brain. The brain strives for efficiency and tries to do more with less but it can't work miracles so the sufferer feels flat, depressed, slow-thinking etc. The treatment increases the levels of neurotransmitters which floods your brain initially. Psychiatrists do their best to vary doses to find the right level but it's not exact and everyone is different.

This is a known problem with some other anti-depressants where someone can experience severe mood swings and may feel physically sick in the first few days. It's not a reason to stop taking it and you should consult the psychiatrist who prescribed it immediately.

I don't think anybody could write off the benefit of wellbutrin to them without trying it first _under medical supervision_

Hi Kurtosis,

Just curious - what were your symptoms of POIS? Was it mostly cognitive, and did you happen to have any pressure in the head like a lot of us do?

Thanks

Hi,
Some pressure in the head but I also have sinusitis so that's just something I live with. The primary symptoms are a feeling of nausea, intense weakness and confusion, as if all my thoughts are shut off, within a few minutes of an O.
These appear to be greatly diminished. The other symptom was holes in my memory after an O. Stuff I'd learned around the time of the O seemed wiped out. So I had the head pain but the symptoms were mainly cognitive.
I still feel a little odd when I have an O but it's so much less than it was before and I don't have the feeling my thoughts are shut off. O's feel pleasurable now, not that I'm having lots of them but previously I was down to one every 10 days whereas I'm having 3 times as many now without worrying about it.

There are no memory holes, meaning I wake up the next day and have good recall for what I learned and did the previous day (just like it used to be).
Both ginkgo and fenugreek are vasodilators so I'm guessing this is important in reducing some of the trauma of POIS. I've experienced some benefits with vinpocetine in the past which is another vasodilator. Ginkgo has neurological effects that fenugreek doesn't, as does huperzine.

I'm feeling a lot more alert. I also felt the sinusitis was improving but I got a cold last Friday (everyone in my office has one) so I'll need to get back to you on that

[observercenter]

Hi guys!

I just want to say that we are going to push for a reddit-like campaign on Indiegogo, to ask for more funds for our research.

I am tired of reading quotes from isolation, despair, misunderstanding, the double or triple (or more) effort we have to make to only try to show off that we have a normal life... that this terror syndrome is bringing to us. I do not want anyone to suffer from this anymore, so  I am not going to stop until we have a very good research done and not someone that falls short, so i am asking you for a very last effort to join us in this enterprise at Indiegogo.

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=454.0 [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]

[CertainlyPOIS]

anybody interested in doing lit review on what has helped to find something useful.  we will do search using google scholar instead of websites.
it is something we can do while waiting for reaserch

[jferr]

Kurtosis, I know that I have asked you this before on a prior regimen.. What brands and when around orgasm do you take these supplements.

Thanks for your continuous help,

Jon.

[kurtosis]

Kurtosis, I know that I have asked you this before on a prior regimen.. What brands and when around orgasm do you take these supplements.

Thanks for your continuous help,

Jon.

Hi Jon,
I'll have to message you. Forum rules prevent me from giving brand information as it could be construed as marketing or promoting products.

[B_Daniel]

Kurtosis Method.... IT WORKS

I've been on it for 6 days, and I'm in full agreement with Nightingale... this is the real deal.  I don't feel as if my problems are masked, but I rather feel as if they're cured.  I know I created the 2-week rule, and I'm breaking it in a bad way right now.   Sometimes rules were meant to be broken.  His solution is vitamins... not a drug, not a stimulant, so I'm extremeley hopeful that this isn't a short term positive feeling.  Also, I feel increasingly better each day.  (note, I have limited email access over the next couple wks, but will try to keep ya'll updated...)

[POIS-SUFFERER]

Kurtosis Method.... IT WORKS

I've been on it for 6 days, and I'm in full agreement with Nightingale... this is the real deal.  I don't feel as if my problems are masked, but I rather feel as if they're cured.  I know I created the 2-week rule, and I'm breaking it in a bad way right now.   Sometimes rules were meant to be broken.  His solution is vitamins... not a drug, not a stimulant, so I'm extremeley hopeful that this isn't a short term positive feeling.  Also, I feel increasingly better each day.  (note, I have limited email access over the next couple wks, but will try to keep ya'll updated...)

I think we need a one paragraph synopsis of what people are doing to replicate these results so we can all be on the same page here.

PS.

[Prancer]

Kurtosis Method.... IT WORKS

I've been on it for 6 days, and I'm in full agreement with Nightingale... this is the real deal.  I don't feel as if my problems are masked, but I rather feel as if they're cured.  I know I created the 2-week rule, and I'm breaking it in a bad way right now.   Sometimes rules were meant to be broken.  His solution is vitamins... not a drug, not a stimulant, so I'm extremeley hopeful that this isn't a short term positive feeling.  Also, I feel increasingly better each day.  (note, I have limited email access over the next couple wks, but will try to keep ya'll updated...)

That is AMAZING news B_Daniel! I ordered my vitamins a few days ago and am still waiting for them. But I am SO excited to hear that this Kurtosis vitamin regimen is really working for a lot of us. I can't wait to give them a try! It would be great for us to find out which vitamins are the most important in making us feel better. I ordered pretty much everything except the huperzine A, but if that is a key ingredient then I'll buy that one in a hurry, haha.

Also, I agree with pois-sufferer that it would be nice to get a synopsis from everyone it is helping. (Maybe they will create a topic soon on the other forum like they did for the niacin results, showing what exactly people are taking and how they are feeling after. This will probably happen after more people start trying the vitamins out.)

Ok peace out...and I'll keep everyone updated when I try it out.

[kurtosis]

Kurtosis Method.... IT WORKS

I've been on it for 6 days, and I'm in full agreement with Nightingale... this is the real deal.  I don't feel as if my problems are masked, but I rather feel as if they're cured.  I know I created the 2-week rule, and I'm breaking it in a bad way right now.   Sometimes rules were meant to be broken.  His solution is vitamins... not a drug, not a stimulant, so I'm extremeley hopeful that this isn't a short term positive feeling.  Also, I feel increasingly better each day.  (note, I have limited email access over the next couple wks, but will try to keep ya'll updated...)

That is AMAZING news B_Daniel! I ordered my vitamins a few days ago and am still waiting for them. But I am SO excited to hear that this Kurtosis vitamin regimen is really working for a lot of us. I can't wait to give them a try! It would be great for us to find out which vitamins are the most important in making us feel better. I ordered pretty much everything except the huperzine A, but if that is a key ingredient then I'll buy that one in a hurry, haha.

Also, I agree with pois-sufferer that it would be nice to get a synopsis from everyone it is helping. (Maybe they will create a topic soon on the other forum like they did for the niacin results, showing what exactly people are taking and how they are feeling after. This will probably happen after more people start trying the vitamins out.)

Ok peace out...and I'll keep everyone updated when I try it out.

I'd order the huperzine A & take as described on the other forum. You could take 200mcg every second day or 100mcg / day. I wouldn't recommend taking it every day for more than 4/5 days a week. These might just be "herbs and vitamins" but the pharmacological effects of something like Huperzine are noticeable. Specifically it's an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, similar to the way many anti-depressants inhibit serotonin reuptake. It's a drug that's being tested to treat alzheimers.
Remember that aspirin was derived from willow bark so herb's can be potent and much of our medicine has derived from understanding the actions of herbal remedies.

Now what I don't know, is whether Huperzine is providing a lift but our acetylcholine levels are around normal range or whether it's treating a diminishment in our acetylcholine levels. The latter is the "muscle weakness" hypothesis and it's difficult to test.

[Prancer]

I'd order the huperzine A & take as described on the other forum. You could take 200mcg every second day or 100mcg / day. I wouldn't recommend taking it every day for more than 4/5 days a week. These might just be "herbs and vitamins" but the pharmacological effects of something like Huperzine are noticeable. Specifically it's an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, similar to the way many anti-depressants inhibit serotonin reuptake. It's a drug that's being tested to treat alzheimers.
Remember that aspirin was derived from willow bark so herb's can be potent and much of our medicine has derived from understanding the actions of herbal remedies.

Now what I don't know, is whether Huperzine is providing a lift but our acetylcholine levels are around normal range or whether it's treating a diminishment in our acetylcholine levels. The latter is the "muscle weakness" hypothesis and it's difficult to test.

I was able to find and purchase the huperzine earlier today. Thank you, now I know it is more crucial than I first thought.

[GoingCrazy]

Hey, haven't been on the forum in a while... sorry

I hear Kurtosis has something that may work for POIS?

Can someone please send me an email or a PM, I just have been very busy lately and today I had pretty bad POIS.  I really want to try this new concoction as I was thinking about just veering off the side of the road into a tree to end this misery.  But I had to reassure to myself that my pois worst stage is very short.

Can someone please PM me a message.  Thanks a lot.  I mean it.

[GoingCrazy]

Another thing,  with niacin... do you "O" during the flush? after the flush?  How long after the flush?  Before the flush?

Thanks.  Sorry, just beat up with POIS right now.

Anybody get night sweats with POIS?

[Mer]

Hi everyone,

Could someone please provide a final list of kurtosis's remedy. (I'm in so much brain fog now lol)

I can't wait to order them now.

Thank you!

[Prancer]

Another thing,  with niacin... do you "O" during the flush? after the flush?  How long after the flush?  Before the flush?

Thanks.  Sorry, just beat up with POIS right now.

Anybody get night sweats with POIS?

Hello GoingCrazy!

I sent you a message about the Kurtosis vitamin regimen.

It is my understanding that you should wait until about 20 minutes AFTER the flush for it to work the best. Also, try fasting for about 3 hours before you take the niacin for a stronger flush.

I really want to try this new concoction as I was thinking about just veering off the side of the road into a tree to end this misery.  But I had to reassure to myself that my pois worst stage is very short.

Don't worry GoingCrazy! POIS is very bad, but I am very hopeful that one day in the near future there will be a cure. Give the Kurtosis vitamin regimen a try and see how it works for you. Stay strong!

[GoingCrazy]

Thanks a lot prancer, you are a lot of help.

The vitamin concoction.  Glad it is working for some people. 

I don't know if I would say that we have a vitamin deficiency, there's just no way that a normal person would need this amount of vitamins just to have an orgasm without POIS.  Maybe it is masking the bodies reaction to it?  Maybe we have something in us taking away our nutrients (a parasite) needed to have a successful orgasm?

I've also thought of my pois just being a post orgasmic migraine, has anybody ever tried Indometacin?

[kurtosis]

Thanks a lot prancer, you are a lot of help.

The vitamin concoction.  Glad it is working for some people. 

I don't know if I would say that we have a vitamin deficiency, there's just no way that a normal person would need this amount of vitamins just to have an orgasm without POIS.  Maybe it is masking the bodies reaction to it?  Maybe we have something in us taking away our nutrients (a parasite) needed to have a successful orgasm?

I've also thought of my pois just being a post orgasmic migraine, has anybody ever tried Indometacin?

Parasite, auto-immune, genetic problem impeding or preventing some enzymatic reactions, bacterial infection in the gut... all possibilities.
I know I have gut problems revealed in a colonoscopy but a few rounds of antibiotics don't seem to have fixed them.

I'm not suggesting that POIS sufferers just need lots of vitamins for no reason but it's going to be very difficult to find out what the actual reason is without a coordinated research programme (which we can't discuss on NSF as it requires funds to be raised).

However, to suggest that something is masking POIS is not accurate. We simply do not know what's causing POIS and with this supplement regime my biggest concern is trying to prevent neurological damage from long term POIS. Even if our brain cells are not being attacked by the illness, if its affecting our neurotransmitters such that we can't think then our brain development (and learning of course) is being affected. This is a form of cumulative brain damage where you move farther and farther away from the potential you had without POIS.

While we're waiting to figure out what the cause is, I want to be functional. So it's about managing a condition. I never claimed a "cure".

[Habibou]

Totally agree with the Bacterial infection in the Gut... I have gut inflammation and I started to get belly pain at the same time I got POIS.

According to some scientific website, some bacteries process the sugar into alcohol which lowers the dopamin level in the brain and changes the hormonal balance.
It could explain our "brainfog" feeling like the "hangover"!
The "bad bacteries" in the gut are eating the nutrients : deficiency.
It could explain why eating sugar make our POIS worse and the free sugar regim helps us to reduce the symptoms.

I will start a treatment to kill the bacteries and it is supposed to balance the hormonal system and increase the natural dopamin level.

[acronym]

"Totally agree with the Bacterial infection in the Gut... I have gut inflammation and I started to get belly pain at the same time I got POIS."
So did I.

[Starsky]

Animus said that he was having this gut problem after he developed POIS, after his surgery his gut problems resolved.

[GoingCrazy]

Thanks a lot prancer, you are a lot of help.

The vitamin concoction.  Glad it is working for some people. 

I don't know if I would say that we have a vitamin deficiency, there's just no way that a normal person would need this amount of vitamins just to have an orgasm without POIS.  Maybe it is masking the bodies reaction to it?  Maybe we have something in us taking away our nutrients (a parasite) needed to have a successful orgasm?

I've also thought of my pois just being a post orgasmic migraine, has anybody ever tried Indometacin?

Parasite, auto-immune, genetic problem impeding or preventing some enzymatic reactions, bacterial infection in the gut... all possibilities.
I know I have gut problems revealed in a colonoscopy but a few rounds of antibiotics don't seem to have fixed them.

I'm not suggesting that POIS sufferers just need lots of vitamins for no reason but it's going to be very difficult to find out what the actual reason is without a coordinated research programme (which we can't discuss on NSF as it requires funds to be raised).

However, to suggest that something is masking POIS is not accurate. We simply do not know what's causing POIS and with this supplement regime my biggest concern is trying to prevent neurological damage from long term POIS. Even if our brain cells are not being attacked by the illness, if its affecting our neurotransmitters such that we can't think then our brain development (and learning of course) is being affected. This is a form of cumulative brain damage where you move farther and farther away from the potential you had without POIS.

While we're waiting to figure out what the cause is, I want to be functional. So it's about managing a condition. I never claimed a "cure".

No i'm not saying that you claimed a cure or anything like that.  The internet is very bad for getting a point across.  Lol I am not telling you not to take the vitamins because they aren't going to cure you.  That's great that you've found something.




I've always thought of POIS as not an allergy because of the symptoms that I never get, runny nose, etc.  But I just stumbled upon these pages.  "Brain Allergy", and they sound a lot like my POIS,  except it is sexual stimulation and orgasm that causes it, not food. 

http://www.thehealingpartnership.org/pdf/cerebral_allergies.pdf [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/brainallergies.htm [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]

They recommend taking vitamins similar, such as vitamin C, calcium, zinc, vitamin B, etc.

Gives me a new thought on allergies.


This is also very interesting to read.  http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2000/articles/2000-v15n01-p005.shtml [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]

[GoingCrazy]

Kurtosis, something is telling me that the Huperzine A is doing it for you.  I'm going to buy some today and try just that, and I will let you know how it affects me.  (I'm too lazy to go out and get all the supplements listed :/ )

[Nightingale]

The information so many people are asking for now is available at the other forum that I can't mention the name of here because of Naked Scientists Forum rules.  Send me a "Private message" (Click on my name) and I'll get you to where you need to be.

I've never had gastro issues during POIS over the 13 years I've had it.  I think if vitamins were being blocked/ not absorbed at the gut level than we would be seeing far more blood tests showing deficiencies across the board and serious well-known illnesses (like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seborrhoeic_dermatitis [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register] which has nasty rashes on the body)

[dante88]

Hi guys, I have been suffering from the symptoms of POIS for my entire adult life (roughly 11 years).  Symptoms include brain fog, difficulty maintaining erections, depression, fatigue, anxiety, swelling of eyes, paleness, premature ejaculation, lack of motivation...the list goes on.

I seem to get POIS when I get aroused...the symptoms are significantly worse after ejaculation than before, but if I masturbate or have sex without ejaculation or orgasm I still have the symptoms to a lesser degree.

I have a few questions for you guys...I am going to see my allergist this upcoming Friday and I am supposed to provide a "specimen" sample of my semen for skin ***** testing. So here are my questions:

1). How long before the skin ***** testing should I wait to provide the sample? The doctor said the morning of the appointment is fine (appt is at 10:00 a.m.). I know that sperm dies rather quickly after leaving the male body...will this affect the results of the test if I wait several hours?

2). If I do have a reaction to my own semen, will I have to provide a sample every time before I am giving the hyposensitization therapy? Or will they freeze the specimen and use it until they run out?

3). It seems like talk about treatment with autlogous semen has died down recently, is it still a viable treatment procedure?

4). What is the Kurtosis protocol I keep hearing about? I can't find any exact listing of what it entails as far as vitamins and procedure.

5). Are there any new procedures that have had success?

I feel like the issue is definitely based in the hypothalamus/pituitary. My theory is that I become aroused and my pre-ejaculate flows through my seminal "plumbing" and interacts with T-lymphocytes in any small gaps in the plumbing. If I ejaculate the amount of fluid interacting with the lymphocytes is increased causing a more severe reaction. The T-lymphocytes reaction then triggers the release of histamine. The histamine causes cortisol to be released to suppress it. A prolonged allergic reaction will create a prolonged cortisol release, interfering with hormones and the pituitary. Also, elevated levels of histamine will interact with the hypothalamus in a negative way, causing neurotransmitters and their release to become imbalanced and possibly even decreasing them.

My symptoms are very similar to dopamine deficiency, which I think might play a key role in POIS.

Anyways, I would appreciate any feedback and I hope you guys are doing well.

Thanks,

Chris

[kurtosis]

Kurtosis, something is telling me that the Huperzine A is doing it for you.  I'm going to buy some today and try just that, and I will let you know how it affects me.  (I'm too lazy to go out and get all the supplements listed :/ )

Have a look over at the other forum. There's much more information there.

[lauracostis]

Hi guys, I have been suffering from the symptoms of POIS for my entire adult life (roughly 11 years).  Symptoms include brain fog, difficulty maintaining erections, depression, fatigue, anxiety, swelling of eyes, paleness, premature ejaculation, lack of motivation...the list goes on.

I seem to get POIS when I get aroused...the symptoms are significantly worse after ejaculation than before, but if I masturbate or have sex without ejaculation or orgasm I still have the symptoms to a lesser degree.

I have a few questions for you guys...I am going to see my allergist this upcoming Friday and I am supposed to provide a "specimen" sample of my semen for skin ***** testing. So here are my questions:

1). How long before the skin ***** testing should I wait to provide the sample? The doctor said the morning of the appointment is fine (appt is at 10:00 a.m.). I know that sperm dies rather quickly after leaving the male body...will this affect the results of the test if I wait several hours?

2). If I do have a reaction to my own semen, will I have to provide a sample every time before I am giving the hyposensitization therapy? Or will they freeze the specimen and use it until they run out?

3). It seems like talk about treatment with autlogous semen has died down recently, is it still a viable treatment procedure?

4). What is the Kurtosis protocol I keep hearing about? I can't find any exact listing of what it entails as far as vitamins and procedure.

5). Are there any new procedures that have had success?

I feel like the issue is definitely based in the hypothalamus/pituitary. My theory is that I become aroused and my pre-ejaculate flows through my seminal "plumbing" and interacts with T-lymphocytes in any small gaps in the plumbing. If I ejaculate the amount of fluid interacting with the lymphocytes is increased causing a more severe reaction. The T-lymphocytes reaction then triggers the release of histamine. The histamine causes cortisol to be released to suppress it. A prolonged allergic reaction will create a prolonged cortisol release, interfering with hormones and the pituitary. Also, elevated levels of histamine will interact with the hypothalamus in a negative way, causing neurotransmitters and their release to become imbalanced and possibly even decreasing them.

My symptoms are very similar to dopamine deficiency, which I think might play a key role in POIS.

Anyways, I would appreciate any feedback and I hope you guys are doing well.

Thanks,

Chris

In response to question number 2. I believe Dr. Waldinger uses fresh semen.  I have wanted to say somthing for a while after hearing about others injected with fresh semen.  In my professional medical opinion this would defeat the entire purpose of the highly diluted semen being injected for hyposensitization.  If you are injected with a 1/100,000 dilution after just having an ejaculation and being exposed to a full dose, there is no point.  This is equivalent to doing a hyposensitization on a person with a peanut allergy by first giving them an entire peanut and then injecting them with a 1/100,000 peanut dilution.

[lauracostis]

Kurtosis, have you had any side effects from taking Huperzine A.  I have tried other nootropics like Vinpocetine and others, but only ever ate one pill out of the bottle because of side effects.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Hi guys, I have been suffering from the symptoms of POIS for my entire adult life (roughly 11 years).  Symptoms include brain fog, difficulty maintaining erections, depression, fatigue, anxiety, swelling of eyes, paleness, premature ejaculation, lack of motivation...the list goes on.

I seem to get POIS when I get aroused...the symptoms are significantly worse after ejaculation than before, but if I masturbate or have sex without ejaculation or orgasm I still have the symptoms to a lesser degree.

I have a few questions for you guys...I am going to see my allergist this upcoming Friday and I am supposed to provide a "specimen" sample of my semen for skin ***** testing. So here are my questions:

1). How long before the skin ***** testing should I wait to provide the sample? The doctor said the morning of the appointment is fine (appt is at 10:00 a.m.). I know that sperm dies rather quickly after leaving the male body...will this affect the results of the test if I wait several hours?

2). If I do have a reaction to my own semen, will I have to provide a sample every time before I am giving the hyposensitization therapy? Or will they freeze the specimen and use it until they run out?


4). What is the Kurtosis protocol I keep hearing about? I can't find any exact listing of what it entails as far as vitamins and procedure.

Thanks,

Chris

1.  the closer you can provide sample to injection time will be good.  If you can refigerate your sample couple of hours shouldnt hurt.
2.  my doctor refigerates my semen so i dont i have to give him sample all the time.

[GoingCrazy]

I bought Huperzine A about 8 hours ago and tried 100 mcg, which is approximately 2 pills from the bottle that I had bought.  Today is day 1 pois which is my worst stage.  I had O'd a couple of times yesterday unsuccessfully and POIS took its grip on me.  Huperzine A did nothing to combat my symptoms of POIS while in POIS.  I'm sure I would notice it out of POIS, but in POIS it didn't do anything.  I will probably continue taking it out while my worst symptoms subside.  Maybe it will help if I take it out of pois.

Don't think I said POIS enough

Dante, your theory sounds plausible, as I still am leaning towards the auto-immune "brain allergy" symptoms.
My next concoction for pois is to try flushing with niacin along with taking an antihistamine.

[GoingCrazy]

Dante, to answer your question #5, some people have had success with many different things.  The most recent, and probably the most successful has been taking pure niacin, enough to have a good flush with, than waiting 20 minutes after the flush to have an orgasm.  Other methods include different vitamins such as vitamin C, calcium magnesium, and drugs such as antihistamines, etc.  There are a variety of things people are doing.  I'm sure other people will contact you on the things that are being taken.

[GoingCrazy]

MSL

I shared it with my parents back then but they were largely skeptical and even to this day they think it is all in my head and accuse me of being a hypochondriac.

Omg, same exact thing happens to me and it's rediculous.  Just because something isn't posted in a medical paper doesn't mean it isn't real.  This is probably the thing that really ticks me off about POIS.  But thing is that if I didn't have POIS, I wouldn't believe it either.  It really takes having it to believe it.

This does not agree with Waldinger. Secondly, there was no control group in his work, he explicitly mentions this in his paper:


Put it this way, what would a skin-test show on a normal person with no POIS symptoms? It would not surprise me if they too had a reaction, afterall, semen is not meant to be injected directly into the bloodstream. Moreover, he concludes that it is a semen allergy because men to stopped before ejaculating did not experience the symptoms. For me personally, ejaculation coincides with orgasm. So why could it not in fact be the orgasm that is causing POIS and not the ejaculation?

This is also rediculous... you think a professional would have a control group in his study.  This was also discussed by us right as soon as Waldinger came out with his paper.  I also think that too and still believe that it is the orgasm that is causing the allergic reaction, not the semen, as there are too many things being released upon orgasm that can contribute to the POIS feeling, and just because 10 people with POIS react to sperm being put into their bloodstream doesn't mean that is is the sperm causing the feeling.

I scored the highest mark in A-level chemistry in the end, I was also given the sixth form prize for mathematics and performance in A-levels. I recently got a masters in physics and was awarded the departmental prize for performance in examinations. Now I have a fellowship to do a PhD in the US. As I gave up on a regular life and relationship, my mind is my most treasured asset. Recently a dangerous idea has began to grow in my mind, that these POIS symptoms might cause damage and that it is not 100% reversible after 7 days (again, symptoms peak in 2 days). I cannot seem to shake this idea and it is really troubling me, as I don't feel as sharp as I used to be...

That's great that you are making progress while having POIS.  It is very motivating to me as I am also at the most important part of my life which is college.  I think it's funny how I can tell that you are a highly driven person just from having avoided orgasms and only having NE's.  Many people are in that same boat.  I feel too much motivation while not having an orgasm, but it's driven me to a point where I am psychologically inclined to be the best that I can be, almost to a spiritual level, knowing that I am doing the "right" thing supposedly.  But sex should be a part of life and nothing to worry about.  POIS is what we really need to figure out, and once we do, we can all enjoy life to the fullest and have relationships whether currently we are in them or not. 

[dante88]

MSL

I shared it with my parents back then but they were largely skeptical and even to this day they think it is all in my head and accuse me of being a hypochondriac.

Omg, same exact thing happens to me and it's rediculous.  Just because something isn't posted in a medical paper doesn't mean it isn't real.  This is probably the thing that really ticks me off about POIS.  But thing is that if I didn't have POIS, I wouldn't believe it either.  It really takes having it to believe it.

This does not agree with Waldinger. Secondly, there was no control group in his work, he explicitly mentions this in his paper:


Put it this way, what would a skin-test show on a normal person with no POIS symptoms? It would not surprise me if they too had a reaction, afterall, semen is not meant to be injected directly into the bloodstream. Moreover, he concludes that it is a semen allergy because men to stopped before ejaculating did not experience the symptoms. For me personally, ejaculation coincides with orgasm. So why could it not in fact be the orgasm that is causing POIS and not the ejaculation?

This is also rediculous... you think a professional would have a control group in his study.  This was also discussed by us right as soon as Waldinger came out with his paper.  I also think that too and still believe that it is the orgasm that is causing the allergic reaction, not the semen, as there are too many things being released upon orgasm that can contribute to the POIS feeling, and just because 10 people with POIS react to sperm being put into their bloodstream doesn't mean that is is the sperm causing the feeling.

I scored the highest mark in A-level chemistry in the end, I was also given the sixth form prize for mathematics and performance in A-levels. I recently got a masters in physics and was awarded the departmental prize for performance in examinations. Now I have a fellowship to do a PhD in the US. As I gave up on a regular life and relationship, my mind is my most treasured asset. Recently a dangerous idea has began to grow in my mind, that these POIS symptoms might cause damage and that it is not 100% reversible after 7 days (again, symptoms peak in 2 days). I cannot seem to shake this idea and it is really troubling me, as I don't feel as sharp as I used to be...

That's great that you are making progress while having POIS.  It is very motivating to me as I am also at the most important part of my life which is college.  I think it's funny how I can tell that you are a highly driven person just from having avoided orgasms and only having NE's.  Many people are in that same boat.  I feel too much motivation while not having an orgasm, but it's driven me to a point where I am psychologically inclined to be the best that I can be, almost to a spiritual level, knowing that I am doing the "right" thing supposedly.  But sex should be a part of life and nothing to worry about.  POIS is what we really need to figure out, and once we do, we can all enjoy life to the fullest and have relationships whether currently we are in them or not.

I don't think that the skin test is the same thing as a bloodstream injection, from what I have seen the tool they use for the skin testing is very small and doesn't even break the skin (as far as actual treatment they do use subcutaneous injections that break the skin). I don't agree that most people w/o POIS symptoms would have a reaction to their own semen...plenty of women are the recipients of semen on their skin and a majority of them do not have any kind of reaction.

I do agree with you that the orgasm appears to be the main culprit...there are so many variables to contend with as far as orgasm is concerned that it's hard to tell what the culprit is...I'm leaning towards thinking it is a dopamine deficiency because many of the POIS symptoms mirror low dopamine.

I do think it is interesting that in Dr. Waldinger's studies the patients treated with semen desenstization injections showed 60-80% improvement...that has to mean that semen has some involvement...just my 2 cents

[GoingCrazy]

I don't agree that most people w/o POIS symptoms would have a reaction to their own semen...plenty of women are the recipients of semen on their skin and a majority of them do not have any kind of reaction.

I do agree with you that the orgasm appears to be the main culprit...there are so many variables to contend with as far as orgasm is concerned that it's hard to tell what the culprit is...I'm leaning towards thinking it is a dopamine deficiency because many of the POIS symptoms mirror low dopamine.

Getting semen on your skin (I would say) is a lot different than getting injected or skin pricked with it.  I've had semen on my skin plenty of times without a reaction.

We could have different "POIS's", but I don't believe it is low dopamine causing these symptoms (at least mine).  It's not like I can have a cup of coffee and my POIS will go away.

I currently lean towards brain allergy just from brain inflammation, and cause and affect reaction from orgasm.  The fact that niacin, vitamin C,anti-inflammatory herbs and foods, and antihistamines help also make me think of a "brain" allergy to orgasm.

[kurtosis]

Kurtosis, have you had any side effects from taking Huperzine A.  I have tried other nootropics like Vinpocetine and others, but only ever ate one pill out of the bottle because of side effects.

None. No noticeable side effects at all.

[kurtosis]

I bought Huperzine A about 8 hours ago and tried 100 mcg, which is approximately 2 pills from the bottle that I had bought.  Today is day 1 pois which is my worst stage.  I had O'd a couple of times yesterday unsuccessfully and POIS took its grip on me.  Huperzine A did nothing to combat my symptoms of POIS while in POIS.  I'm sure I would notice it out of POIS, but in POIS it didn't do anything.  I will probably continue taking it out while my worst symptoms subside.  Maybe it will help if I take it out of pois.

Don't think I said POIS enough

Dante, your theory sounds plausible, as I still am leaning towards the auto-immune "brain allergy" symptoms.
My next concoction for pois is to try flushing with niacin along with taking an antihistamine.

Hi GoingCrazy,
Huperzine just improves memory.That's why I'm taking a few different things.

Are you taking the b coenzymes?
Have you been taking ginkgo twice a day?
I'd also recommend some L-Taurine.

Perhaps if you do this for a few days without having an O then you might notice an improvement. I definitely have.

[kurtosis]

MSL

I shared it with my parents back then but they were largely skeptical and even to this day they think it is all in my head and accuse me of being a hypochondriac.

Omg, same exact thing happens to me and it's rediculous.  Just because something isn't posted in a medical paper doesn't mean it isn't real.  This is probably the thing that really ticks me off about POIS.  But thing is that if I didn't have POIS, I wouldn't believe it either.  It really takes having it to believe it.

This does not agree with Waldinger. Secondly, there was no control group in his work, he explicitly mentions this in his paper:


Put it this way, what would a skin-test show on a normal person with no POIS symptoms? It would not surprise me if they too had a reaction, afterall, semen is not meant to be injected directly into the bloodstream. Moreover, he concludes that it is a semen allergy because men to stopped before ejaculating did not experience the symptoms. For me personally, ejaculation coincides with orgasm. So why could it not in fact be the orgasm that is causing POIS and not the ejaculation?

This is also rediculous... you think a professional would have a control group in his study.  This was also discussed by us right as soon as Waldinger came out with his paper.  I also think that too and still believe that it is the orgasm that is causing the allergic reaction, not the semen, as there are too many things being released upon orgasm that can contribute to the POIS feeling, and just because 10 people with POIS react to sperm being put into their bloodstream doesn't mean that is is the sperm causing the feeling.

I scored the highest mark in A-level chemistry in the end, I was also given the sixth form prize for mathematics and performance in A-levels. I recently got a masters in physics and was awarded the departmental prize for performance in examinations. Now I have a fellowship to do a PhD in the US. As I gave up on a regular life and relationship, my mind is my most treasured asset. Recently a dangerous idea has began to grow in my mind, that these POIS symptoms might cause damage and that it is not 100% reversible after 7 days (again, symptoms peak in 2 days). I cannot seem to shake this idea and it is really troubling me, as I don't feel as sharp as I used to be...

That's great that you are making progress while having POIS.  It is very motivating to me as I am also at the most important part of my life which is college.  I think it's funny how I can tell that you are a highly driven person just from having avoided orgasms and only having NE's.  Many people are in that same boat.  I feel too much motivation while not having an orgasm, but it's driven me to a point where I am psychologically inclined to be the best that I can be, almost to a spiritual level, knowing that I am doing the "right" thing supposedly.  But sex should be a part of life and nothing to worry about.  POIS is what we really need to figure out, and once we do, we can all enjoy life to the fullest and have relationships whether currently we are in them or not.

I don't think that the skin test is the same thing as a bloodstream injection, from what I have seen the tool they use for the skin testing is very small and doesn't even break the skin (as far as actual treatment they do use subcutaneous injections that break the skin). I don't agree that most people w/o POIS symptoms would have a reaction to their own semen...plenty of women are the recipients of semen on their skin and a majority of them do not have any kind of reaction.

I do agree with you that the orgasm appears to be the main culprit...there are so many variables to contend with as far as orgasm is concerned that it's hard to tell what the culprit is...I'm leaning towards thinking it is a dopamine deficiency because many of the POIS symptoms mirror low dopamine.

I do think it is interesting that in Dr. Waldinger's studies the patients treated with semen desenstization injections showed 60-80% improvement...that has to mean that semen has some involvement...just my 2 cents

I've never developed a rash if I got semen on my skin either. That doesn't mean that there isn't an allergic component to this.
Thanks for the link about brain allergies. 

[martin88]

I found very interesting that something similar to POIS can be found in animals. (I'm not saying it's POIS):

All the males "Australian dibbler" are dying 2-3 weeks after mating.
I couldn't find exactly why. From several scientific articles, they say they're dying of stress, too much corticosteroids, immune suppression, negative nitrogen balance (has to do with proteins and anabolic/catabolic). If the nitrogen balance is corrected or when fed with marine derived nutrients the dibbler can survive the male die-off.
I think I have read (can't find it again) that the dibblers who can't find a partner are also dying, but it's mentionned they have spermatorrhea (sperm loss in urine).

Here's a non-exhaustive list of links about this subject:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3450597?uid=3739464&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=56071540943 [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]

http://books.google.ca/books?id=NSydTn-XELwC&pg=PA228&lpg=PA228&dq=negative+nitrogen+balance+experienced+during+the+mating&source=bl&ots=TUVWMCBYwW&sig=rMyyvHpTFGp4EdtBR1h1BPBYvwM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uBmUT_SIDIbz6QHP8NiCBA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=negative%20nitrogen%20balance%20experienced%20during%20the%20mating&f=true [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antechinus [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]

The male can spend up to 12 hours mating to ensure breeding success. To accomplish this the males strip their body of vital proteins and also suppress the immune system so as to free up additional metabolic energy. In this way an individual male trades away long-term survival in return for short-term breeding success, and following the breeding season there is a complete die-off of physiologically exhausted males.[1] Breeding is intensely competitive. Males produce large amounts of testosterone and mate-guarding occurs in the form of protracted copulation (up to twelve hours in some species).

[ophicus1213]

Has anyone ever taken high dose NIACINAMIDE?!  Not Niacin, and upwards of 500mg at a time.  I am not trying to promote products but I am urging all to consider niacinamide in mega doses. 

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2004/pdf/2004-v19n02-p104.pdf [nofollow]

I have always taken niacin with strong results as long as I was post flush, and still experienced extreme back tension and severe PE while using niacin to manage constant  POIS, but I recently switched to NIACINAMIDE about 2.5grams a day, and something very different is occurring!  I need to know whether anyone else has supplemented with it, in high doses, and experienced any benefits. 

The two forms have different mechanisms of action!
This may just be sub-clinical Pellagra!

[dante88]

I have taken Niacinimide for several months, I can't say I really noticed a difference. I took it with Catamine (L-tyrosine) to help my dopamine levels. Not sure what dosage it was as I don't have the bottle anymore, I want to say 200-500 mg...but again I'm not sure. The theory behind sounds plausible though.

[dante88]

I don't agree that most people w/o POIS symptoms would have a reaction to their own semen...plenty of women are the recipients of semen on their skin and a majority of them do not have any kind of reaction.

I do agree with you that the orgasm appears to be the main culprit...there are so many variables to contend with as far as orgasm is concerned that it's hard to tell what the culprit is...I'm leaning towards thinking it is a dopamine deficiency because many of the POIS symptoms mirror low dopamine.

Getting semen on your skin (I would say) is a lot different than getting injected or skin pricked with it.  I've had semen on my skin plenty of times without a reaction.

We could have different "POIS's", but I don't believe it is low dopamine causing these symptoms (at least mine).  It's not like I can have a cup of coffee and my POIS will go away.

I currently lean towards brain allergy just from brain inflammation, and cause and affect reaction from orgasm.  The fact that niacin, vitamin C,anti-inflammatory herbs and foods, and antihistamines help also make me think of a "brain" allergy to orgasm.

I agree with your brain allergy hypothesis...this is kind of what I was saying about the allergic reaction interfering with hypothalamus/pituitary function.

[kurtosis]

Has anyone ever taken high dose NIACINAMIDE?!  Not Niacin, and upwards of 500mg at a time.  I am not trying to promote products but I am urging all to consider niacinamide in mega doses. 

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2004/pdf/2004-v19n02-p104.pdf [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]

I have always taken niacin with strong results as long as I was post flush, and still experienced extreme back tension and severe PE while using niacin to manage constant  POIS, but I recently switched to NIACINAMIDE about 2.5grams a day, and something very different is occurring!  I need to know whether anyone else has supplemented with it, in high doses, and experienced any benefits. 

The two forms have different mechanisms of action!
This may just be sub-clinical Pellagra!

If that's what it is then it's more likely to be pellagra brought about by something using up the niacin supply as I don't think any of us have a diet that's conspicuously low in niacin
However, there is a link between hormones, niacin and mental health. Excessive conversion of testosterone to oestrogen in the male body will inhibit the conversion of tryptophan into niacin.
Tryptophan is an amino acid. It's in meat, eggs and my favourite algae spirulina.
This is the body's mechanism of regulating the amount of niacin it has. I've read some doctors hypothesising that this may be related to dementia in men. Too little oestrogen produces obsessive and autistic like behaviour in guys and too much produces physical changes, fatty deposits on the chest, weakness, brain fog, heart problems, fatigue etc.

Another problem is that if you have excess oestrogen and this is leading to cognitive and health issues, that will tend to create anxiety which increases cortisol levels. Cortisol is made from mostly the same chemicals as testosterone so you get a negative spiral where the body struggles to produce testosterone to restore balance. This hypothesis may explain why supplementation with zinc, magnesium and high dose b vitamins would improve things.

However, as Demografx found, nothing resolves a low testosterone (or oestrogen/test. dominance) problem like supplementing testosterone itself.

[B_Daniel]

Bad news: the last 2 days Ive seen a slight increase in pois. I wish I hadnt prematurely gotten everyone's hopes up. My relief the past few days was VERY real though (100% not placebo) so there's something very improtant to Kurtosis' findings. Hopefully i just need a few weeks on them to really see a stabilized benefit. Who knows. I'll keep ya'll posted