[Prancer]

Another thing,  with niacin... do you "O" during the flush? after the flush?  How long after the flush?  Before the flush?

Thanks.  Sorry, just beat up with POIS right now.

Anybody get night sweats with POIS?

Hello GoingCrazy!

I sent you a message about the Kurtosis vitamin regimen.

It is my understanding that you should wait until about 20 minutes AFTER the flush for it to work the best. Also, try fasting for about 3 hours before you take the niacin for a stronger flush.

I really want to try this new concoction as I was thinking about just veering off the side of the road into a tree to end this misery.  But I had to reassure to myself that my pois worst stage is very short.

Don't worry GoingCrazy! POIS is very bad, but I am very hopeful that one day in the near future there will be a cure. Give the Kurtosis vitamin regimen a try and see how it works for you. Stay strong!

[GoingCrazy]

Thanks a lot prancer, you are a lot of help.

The vitamin concoction.  Glad it is working for some people. 

I don't know if I would say that we have a vitamin deficiency, there's just no way that a normal person would need this amount of vitamins just to have an orgasm without POIS.  Maybe it is masking the bodies reaction to it?  Maybe we have something in us taking away our nutrients (a parasite) needed to have a successful orgasm?

I've also thought of my pois just being a post orgasmic migraine, has anybody ever tried Indometacin?

[kurtosis]

Thanks a lot prancer, you are a lot of help.

The vitamin concoction.  Glad it is working for some people. 

I don't know if I would say that we have a vitamin deficiency, there's just no way that a normal person would need this amount of vitamins just to have an orgasm without POIS.  Maybe it is masking the bodies reaction to it?  Maybe we have something in us taking away our nutrients (a parasite) needed to have a successful orgasm?

I've also thought of my pois just being a post orgasmic migraine, has anybody ever tried Indometacin?

Parasite, auto-immune, genetic problem impeding or preventing some enzymatic reactions, bacterial infection in the gut... all possibilities.
I know I have gut problems revealed in a colonoscopy but a few rounds of antibiotics don't seem to have fixed them.

I'm not suggesting that POIS sufferers just need lots of vitamins for no reason but it's going to be very difficult to find out what the actual reason is without a coordinated research programme (which we can't discuss on NSF as it requires funds to be raised).

However, to suggest that something is masking POIS is not accurate. We simply do not know what's causing POIS and with this supplement regime my biggest concern is trying to prevent neurological damage from long term POIS. Even if our brain cells are not being attacked by the illness, if its affecting our neurotransmitters such that we can't think then our brain development (and learning of course) is being affected. This is a form of cumulative brain damage where you move farther and farther away from the potential you had without POIS.

While we're waiting to figure out what the cause is, I want to be functional. So it's about managing a condition. I never claimed a "cure".

[Habibou]

Totally agree with the Bacterial infection in the Gut... I have gut inflammation and I started to get belly pain at the same time I got POIS.

According to some scientific website, some bacteries process the sugar into alcohol which lowers the dopamin level in the brain and changes the hormonal balance.
It could explain our "brainfog" feeling like the "hangover"!
The "bad bacteries" in the gut are eating the nutrients : deficiency.
It could explain why eating sugar make our POIS worse and the free sugar regim helps us to reduce the symptoms.

I will start a treatment to kill the bacteries and it is supposed to balance the hormonal system and increase the natural dopamin level.

[acronym]

"Totally agree with the Bacterial infection in the Gut... I have gut inflammation and I started to get belly pain at the same time I got POIS."
So did I.

[Starsky]

Animus said that he was having this gut problem after he developed POIS, after his surgery his gut problems resolved.

[GoingCrazy]

Thanks a lot prancer, you are a lot of help.

The vitamin concoction.  Glad it is working for some people. 

I don't know if I would say that we have a vitamin deficiency, there's just no way that a normal person would need this amount of vitamins just to have an orgasm without POIS.  Maybe it is masking the bodies reaction to it?  Maybe we have something in us taking away our nutrients (a parasite) needed to have a successful orgasm?

I've also thought of my pois just being a post orgasmic migraine, has anybody ever tried Indometacin?

Parasite, auto-immune, genetic problem impeding or preventing some enzymatic reactions, bacterial infection in the gut... all possibilities.
I know I have gut problems revealed in a colonoscopy but a few rounds of antibiotics don't seem to have fixed them.

I'm not suggesting that POIS sufferers just need lots of vitamins for no reason but it's going to be very difficult to find out what the actual reason is without a coordinated research programme (which we can't discuss on NSF as it requires funds to be raised).

However, to suggest that something is masking POIS is not accurate. We simply do not know what's causing POIS and with this supplement regime my biggest concern is trying to prevent neurological damage from long term POIS. Even if our brain cells are not being attacked by the illness, if its affecting our neurotransmitters such that we can't think then our brain development (and learning of course) is being affected. This is a form of cumulative brain damage where you move farther and farther away from the potential you had without POIS.

While we're waiting to figure out what the cause is, I want to be functional. So it's about managing a condition. I never claimed a "cure".

No i'm not saying that you claimed a cure or anything like that.  The internet is very bad for getting a point across.  Lol I am not telling you not to take the vitamins because they aren't going to cure you.  That's great that you've found something.




I've always thought of POIS as not an allergy because of the symptoms that I never get, runny nose, etc.  But I just stumbled upon these pages.  "Brain Allergy", and they sound a lot like my POIS,  except it is sexual stimulation and orgasm that causes it, not food. 

www.thehealingpartnership.org/pdf/cerebral_allergies.pdf
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/brainallergies.htm

They recommend taking vitamins similar, such as vitamin C, calcium, zinc, vitamin B, etc.

Gives me a new thought on allergies.


This is also very interesting to read.  http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2000/articles/2000-v15n01-p005.shtml

[GoingCrazy]

Kurtosis, something is telling me that the Huperzine A is doing it for you.  I'm going to buy some today and try just that, and I will let you know how it affects me.  (I'm too lazy to go out and get all the supplements listed :/ )

[Nightingale]

The information so many people are asking for now is available at the other forum that I can't mention the name of here because of Naked Scientists Forum rules.  Send me a "Private message" (Click on my name) and I'll get you to where you need to be.

I've never had gastro issues during POIS over the 13 years I've had it.  I think if vitamins were being blocked/ not absorbed at the gut level than we would be seeing far more blood tests showing deficiencies across the board and serious well-known illnesses (like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seborrhoeic_dermatitis which has nasty rashes on the body)

[dante88]

Hi guys, I have been suffering from the symptoms of POIS for my entire adult life (roughly 11 years).  Symptoms include brain fog, difficulty maintaining erections, depression, fatigue, anxiety, swelling of eyes, paleness, premature ejaculation, lack of motivation...the list goes on.

I seem to get POIS when I get aroused...the symptoms are significantly worse after ejaculation than before, but if I masturbate or have sex without ejaculation or orgasm I still have the symptoms to a lesser degree.

I have a few questions for you guys...I am going to see my allergist this upcoming Friday and I am supposed to provide a "specimen" sample of my semen for skin ***** testing. So here are my questions:

1). How long before the skin ***** testing should I wait to provide the sample? The doctor said the morning of the appointment is fine (appt is at 10:00 a.m.). I know that sperm dies rather quickly after leaving the male body...will this affect the results of the test if I wait several hours?

2). If I do have a reaction to my own semen, will I have to provide a sample every time before I am giving the hyposensitization therapy? Or will they freeze the specimen and use it until they run out?

3). It seems like talk about treatment with autlogous semen has died down recently, is it still a viable treatment procedure?

4). What is the Kurtosis protocol I keep hearing about? I can't find any exact listing of what it entails as far as vitamins and procedure.

5). Are there any new procedures that have had success?

I feel like the issue is definitely based in the hypothalamus/pituitary. My theory is that I become aroused and my pre-ejaculate flows through my seminal "plumbing" and interacts with T-lymphocytes in any small gaps in the plumbing. If I ejaculate the amount of fluid interacting with the lymphocytes is increased causing a more severe reaction. The T-lymphocytes reaction then triggers the release of histamine. The histamine causes cortisol to be released to suppress it. A prolonged allergic reaction will create a prolonged cortisol release, interfering with hormones and the pituitary. Also, elevated levels of histamine will interact with the hypothalamus in a negative way, causing neurotransmitters and their release to become imbalanced and possibly even decreasing them.

My symptoms are very similar to dopamine deficiency, which I think might play a key role in POIS.

Anyways, I would appreciate any feedback and I hope you guys are doing well.

Thanks,

Chris

[kurtosis]

Kurtosis, something is telling me that the Huperzine A is doing it for you.  I'm going to buy some today and try just that, and I will let you know how it affects me.  (I'm too lazy to go out and get all the supplements listed :/ )

Have a look over at the other forum. There's much more information there.

[lauracostis]

Hi guys, I have been suffering from the symptoms of POIS for my entire adult life (roughly 11 years).  Symptoms include brain fog, difficulty maintaining erections, depression, fatigue, anxiety, swelling of eyes, paleness, premature ejaculation, lack of motivation...the list goes on.

I seem to get POIS when I get aroused...the symptoms are significantly worse after ejaculation than before, but if I masturbate or have sex without ejaculation or orgasm I still have the symptoms to a lesser degree.

I have a few questions for you guys...I am going to see my allergist this upcoming Friday and I am supposed to provide a "specimen" sample of my semen for skin ***** testing. So here are my questions:

1). How long before the skin ***** testing should I wait to provide the sample? The doctor said the morning of the appointment is fine (appt is at 10:00 a.m.). I know that sperm dies rather quickly after leaving the male body...will this affect the results of the test if I wait several hours?

2). If I do have a reaction to my own semen, will I have to provide a sample every time before I am giving the hyposensitization therapy? Or will they freeze the specimen and use it until they run out?

3). It seems like talk about treatment with autlogous semen has died down recently, is it still a viable treatment procedure?

4). What is the Kurtosis protocol I keep hearing about? I can't find any exact listing of what it entails as far as vitamins and procedure.

5). Are there any new procedures that have had success?

I feel like the issue is definitely based in the hypothalamus/pituitary. My theory is that I become aroused and my pre-ejaculate flows through my seminal "plumbing" and interacts with T-lymphocytes in any small gaps in the plumbing. If I ejaculate the amount of fluid interacting with the lymphocytes is increased causing a more severe reaction. The T-lymphocytes reaction then triggers the release of histamine. The histamine causes cortisol to be released to suppress it. A prolonged allergic reaction will create a prolonged cortisol release, interfering with hormones and the pituitary. Also, elevated levels of histamine will interact with the hypothalamus in a negative way, causing neurotransmitters and their release to become imbalanced and possibly even decreasing them.

My symptoms are very similar to dopamine deficiency, which I think might play a key role in POIS.

Anyways, I would appreciate any feedback and I hope you guys are doing well.

Thanks,

Chris

In response to question number 2. I believe Dr. Waldinger uses fresh semen.  I have wanted to say somthing for a while after hearing about others injected with fresh semen.  In my professional medical opinion this would defeat the entire purpose of the highly diluted semen being injected for hyposensitization.  If you are injected with a 1/100,000 dilution after just having an ejaculation and being exposed to a full dose, there is no point.  This is equivalent to doing a hyposensitization on a person with a peanut allergy by first giving them an entire peanut and then injecting them with a 1/100,000 peanut dilution.

[lauracostis]

Kurtosis, have you had any side effects from taking Huperzine A.  I have tried other nootropics like Vinpocetine and others, but only ever ate one pill out of the bottle because of side effects.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Hi guys, I have been suffering from the symptoms of POIS for my entire adult life (roughly 11 years).  Symptoms include brain fog, difficulty maintaining erections, depression, fatigue, anxiety, swelling of eyes, paleness, premature ejaculation, lack of motivation...the list goes on.

I seem to get POIS when I get aroused...the symptoms are significantly worse after ejaculation than before, but if I masturbate or have sex without ejaculation or orgasm I still have the symptoms to a lesser degree.

I have a few questions for you guys...I am going to see my allergist this upcoming Friday and I am supposed to provide a "specimen" sample of my semen for skin ***** testing. So here are my questions:

1). How long before the skin ***** testing should I wait to provide the sample? The doctor said the morning of the appointment is fine (appt is at 10:00 a.m.). I know that sperm dies rather quickly after leaving the male body...will this affect the results of the test if I wait several hours?

2). If I do have a reaction to my own semen, will I have to provide a sample every time before I am giving the hyposensitization therapy? Or will they freeze the specimen and use it until they run out?


4). What is the Kurtosis protocol I keep hearing about? I can't find any exact listing of what it entails as far as vitamins and procedure.

Thanks,

Chris

1.  the closer you can provide sample to injection time will be good.  If you can refigerate your sample couple of hours shouldnt hurt.
2.  my doctor refigerates my semen so i dont i have to give him sample all the time.

[GoingCrazy]

I bought Huperzine A about 8 hours ago and tried 100 mcg, which is approximately 2 pills from the bottle that I had bought.  Today is day 1 pois which is my worst stage.  I had O'd a couple of times yesterday unsuccessfully and POIS took its grip on me.  Huperzine A did nothing to combat my symptoms of POIS while in POIS.  I'm sure I would notice it out of POIS, but in POIS it didn't do anything.  I will probably continue taking it out while my worst symptoms subside.  Maybe it will help if I take it out of pois.

Don't think I said POIS enough

Dante, your theory sounds plausible, as I still am leaning towards the auto-immune "brain allergy" symptoms.
My next concoction for pois is to try flushing with niacin along with taking an antihistamine.

[GoingCrazy]

Dante, to answer your question #5, some people have had success with many different things.  The most recent, and probably the most successful has been taking pure niacin, enough to have a good flush with, than waiting 20 minutes after the flush to have an orgasm.  Other methods include different vitamins such as vitamin C, calcium magnesium, and drugs such as antihistamines, etc.  There are a variety of things people are doing.  I'm sure other people will contact you on the things that are being taken.

[GoingCrazy]

MSL

I shared it with my parents back then but they were largely skeptical and even to this day they think it is all in my head and accuse me of being a hypochondriac.

Omg, same exact thing happens to me and it's rediculous.  Just because something isn't posted in a medical paper doesn't mean it isn't real.  This is probably the thing that really ticks me off about POIS.  But thing is that if I didn't have POIS, I wouldn't believe it either.  It really takes having it to believe it.

This does not agree with Waldinger. Secondly, there was no control group in his work, he explicitly mentions this in his paper:


Put it this way, what would a skin-test show on a normal person with no POIS symptoms? It would not surprise me if they too had a reaction, afterall, semen is not meant to be injected directly into the bloodstream. Moreover, he concludes that it is a semen allergy because men to stopped before ejaculating did not experience the symptoms. For me personally, ejaculation coincides with orgasm. So why could it not in fact be the orgasm that is causing POIS and not the ejaculation?

This is also rediculous... you think a professional would have a control group in his study.  This was also discussed by us right as soon as Waldinger came out with his paper.  I also think that too and still believe that it is the orgasm that is causing the allergic reaction, not the semen, as there are too many things being released upon orgasm that can contribute to the POIS feeling, and just because 10 people with POIS react to sperm being put into their bloodstream doesn't mean that is is the sperm causing the feeling.

I scored the highest mark in A-level chemistry in the end, I was also given the sixth form prize for mathematics and performance in A-levels. I recently got a masters in physics and was awarded the departmental prize for performance in examinations. Now I have a fellowship to do a PhD in the US. As I gave up on a regular life and relationship, my mind is my most treasured asset. Recently a dangerous idea has began to grow in my mind, that these POIS symptoms might cause damage and that it is not 100% reversible after 7 days (again, symptoms peak in 2 days). I cannot seem to shake this idea and it is really troubling me, as I don't feel as sharp as I used to be...

That's great that you are making progress while having POIS.  It is very motivating to me as I am also at the most important part of my life which is college.  I think it's funny how I can tell that you are a highly driven person just from having avoided orgasms and only having NE's.  Many people are in that same boat.  I feel too much motivation while not having an orgasm, but it's driven me to a point where I am psychologically inclined to be the best that I can be, almost to a spiritual level, knowing that I am doing the "right" thing supposedly.  But sex should be a part of life and nothing to worry about.  POIS is what we really need to figure out, and once we do, we can all enjoy life to the fullest and have relationships whether currently we are in them or not. 

[dante88]

MSL

I shared it with my parents back then but they were largely skeptical and even to this day they think it is all in my head and accuse me of being a hypochondriac.

Omg, same exact thing happens to me and it's rediculous.  Just because something isn't posted in a medical paper doesn't mean it isn't real.  This is probably the thing that really ticks me off about POIS.  But thing is that if I didn't have POIS, I wouldn't believe it either.  It really takes having it to believe it.

This does not agree with Waldinger. Secondly, there was no control group in his work, he explicitly mentions this in his paper:


Put it this way, what would a skin-test show on a normal person with no POIS symptoms? It would not surprise me if they too had a reaction, afterall, semen is not meant to be injected directly into the bloodstream. Moreover, he concludes that it is a semen allergy because men to stopped before ejaculating did not experience the symptoms. For me personally, ejaculation coincides with orgasm. So why could it not in fact be the orgasm that is causing POIS and not the ejaculation?

This is also rediculous... you think a professional would have a control group in his study.  This was also discussed by us right as soon as Waldinger came out with his paper.  I also think that too and still believe that it is the orgasm that is causing the allergic reaction, not the semen, as there are too many things being released upon orgasm that can contribute to the POIS feeling, and just because 10 people with POIS react to sperm being put into their bloodstream doesn't mean that is is the sperm causing the feeling.

I scored the highest mark in A-level chemistry in the end, I was also given the sixth form prize for mathematics and performance in A-levels. I recently got a masters in physics and was awarded the departmental prize for performance in examinations. Now I have a fellowship to do a PhD in the US. As I gave up on a regular life and relationship, my mind is my most treasured asset. Recently a dangerous idea has began to grow in my mind, that these POIS symptoms might cause damage and that it is not 100% reversible after 7 days (again, symptoms peak in 2 days). I cannot seem to shake this idea and it is really troubling me, as I don't feel as sharp as I used to be...

That's great that you are making progress while having POIS.  It is very motivating to me as I am also at the most important part of my life which is college.  I think it's funny how I can tell that you are a highly driven person just from having avoided orgasms and only having NE's.  Many people are in that same boat.  I feel too much motivation while not having an orgasm, but it's driven me to a point where I am psychologically inclined to be the best that I can be, almost to a spiritual level, knowing that I am doing the "right" thing supposedly.  But sex should be a part of life and nothing to worry about.  POIS is what we really need to figure out, and once we do, we can all enjoy life to the fullest and have relationships whether currently we are in them or not.

I don't think that the skin test is the same thing as a bloodstream injection, from what I have seen the tool they use for the skin testing is very small and doesn't even break the skin (as far as actual treatment they do use subcutaneous injections that break the skin). I don't agree that most people w/o POIS symptoms would have a reaction to their own semen...plenty of women are the recipients of semen on their skin and a majority of them do not have any kind of reaction.

I do agree with you that the orgasm appears to be the main culprit...there are so many variables to contend with as far as orgasm is concerned that it's hard to tell what the culprit is...I'm leaning towards thinking it is a dopamine deficiency because many of the POIS symptoms mirror low dopamine.

I do think it is interesting that in Dr. Waldinger's studies the patients treated with semen desenstization injections showed 60-80% improvement...that has to mean that semen has some involvement...just my 2 cents

[GoingCrazy]

I don't agree that most people w/o POIS symptoms would have a reaction to their own semen...plenty of women are the recipients of semen on their skin and a majority of them do not have any kind of reaction.

I do agree with you that the orgasm appears to be the main culprit...there are so many variables to contend with as far as orgasm is concerned that it's hard to tell what the culprit is...I'm leaning towards thinking it is a dopamine deficiency because many of the POIS symptoms mirror low dopamine.

Getting semen on your skin (I would say) is a lot different than getting injected or skin pricked with it.  I've had semen on my skin plenty of times without a reaction.

We could have different "POIS's", but I don't believe it is low dopamine causing these symptoms (at least mine).  It's not like I can have a cup of coffee and my POIS will go away.

I currently lean towards brain allergy just from brain inflammation, and cause and affect reaction from orgasm.  The fact that niacin, vitamin C,anti-inflammatory herbs and foods, and antihistamines help also make me think of a "brain" allergy to orgasm.

[kurtosis]

Kurtosis, have you had any side effects from taking Huperzine A.  I have tried other nootropics like Vinpocetine and others, but only ever ate one pill out of the bottle because of side effects.

None. No noticeable side effects at all.