Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline Citizen A

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17100 on: 09/08/2012 08:47:58 »
Hi everyone! I have had similar symptoms for couple of years now, in my case theyīre not so severe, usually lasting a day or two. I had anxiety attacs and insomnia before pois. For some reason I always thought, that its caused by something, thats eating my hormones and unbalancing me emotionally.
My profile (so You can compare possible factors) :
Im 36, started smoking and drinking when I was 13, now clean for 3,5 years, had allergies as a child and lots of antibiotic treatments against toncillitis. I have autoimmune disorder called lichen planus and nail fungus (both fingers and toes), that I ll try to treat, but because of my work in humid places and constant contact with wet gloves, is not that simple. I also have weak joints (fingers,elbows etc.) donīt know if it got anything to do with the matter. I dont drink coffee for same reason- its getting me hectic. Donīt eat sugar. I do drink milk. Have frequent eye -and headaches. Anyway, I have a theory, that the condition as pois is related to some bacteria or fungus (candida?), thats eating hormones and vital minerals and I agree, that its living possibly in our stomach (or brain?). I have had constipation for a long time. Im almost in constant stress, but its getting worse having O s, usually on second morning-having symptoms similar to hangover. Marijuana soothed the anxiety (tried it for a couple of months, after that it came back, maybe a bit worse), but Im sure, that its a two edged sword, and its not helping with the cause (I feel same way about vitamin /mineral supplements). And I think that pois is only indicating the problem as the act of having sex is comparable to any very hard physical/ emotional effort, that rushes your hormones. Going to a gym on a regular bases helped me too, but maybe it just boosted my testosterone level for that period of time- so the "enemy" had more to eat than it needed and leaved some of it to me (oh and I took some supplements too at that time) ... Im not a scientist so dont be harsh on my theories. And english isnīt my 1st language so give me some slack on my grammar too... Glad to find this conversation and hope that someone finds cure to this condition! Im also interested if someone have  conditions and/or observations similar to mine.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2012 09:32:29 by Citizen A »

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17101 on: 10/08/2012 00:48:42 »
Citizen A - what interests me are the sufferers who got pois later in life. I had it pretty much when I started puberty. I think this is the case for the vast majority of guys here. With the few people who got it later in life, I would love to think it would be possible to trace back to a incident that triggered the change for them. So you got it around 34 and it seems after you started to clean up your health, which one would like to think would help to reduce pois. Anyway...your fungus theory...what evidence do you have to make you suspect this? Did you get the fungus growth/lichen planus for the first time a couple of years back?
Anything change in your life around 33-34 when you first started to get pois?

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Offline msl

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17102 on: 10/08/2012 02:05:04 »
Does anybody else get really large pupils/dilated iris during POIS-time? This is something that I have noticed. The reason I noticed is that I have eye-floaters (trivial problems in themselves, they are the shadow of clumps in the vitreous gel of the eye) and they became more obvious during POIS-time. Now everytime I look in the mirror I seem to have really dilated eyes. Why exactly this occurs I think is a really interesting question because I think it has something to do with the sympathetic nervous system.

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Offline msl

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17103 on: 10/08/2012 02:24:50 »
Here's another back story. I was out in Coventry on the street and it got quite late. I was on the way back to the bus stop when two guys started giving me some trouble. A fight broke out and I fought them for a bit but being two against one they beat me down quite a bit until luckily some other people ran over and chased them off. I wasn't too bad, I had no blood or anything but I was quite dazed. The people called for an ambulance and when the paramedics arrived they looked at my pupils and kept asking me if I had "taken something". I repeatedly said no (not even alcohol) and they were very sceptical. So keywords are

sympathetic nervous system
eye dilation
fight-or-flight
dopamine

but here's the thing, dilated pupils from what I have read are caused by an EXCESS of dopamine. Isn't the general concensus that POIS is related to a lack of dopamine? Your thoughts please ^^

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Offline msl

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17104 on: 10/08/2012 02:45:00 »
Lastly, I also have experienced this cloudy urine. For a long time I have suspected that it is semen. Some places you read will tell you that it is phosphates and I think a way to test this is to add a potent acid to a beaker of the cloudy urine (like a strong vinegar or something) and it should go clear if it is phosphates. Like amijgoro I also have this "hair trigger penis". It makes riding the bus, cycling and some trousers very very uncomfortable - I hate it, it makes me feel very lightly POISy. So even when I haven't had an orgasm for a very long period of time, I still have this to contend with which gives me light POIS symptoms, so pure blissful mental clarity is something I don't often have :'( I'm not sure if this is different from persistent sexual arousal disorder, I think it is because it is not that I have an erection all the time. Makes me suicidal sometimes! ^^ Nobody would understand though except for the people on this forum.

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17105 on: 10/08/2012 04:07:43 »
Lastly, I also have experienced this cloudy urine. For a long time I have suspected that it is semen. Some places you read will tell you that it is phosphates and I think a way to test this is to add a potent acid to a beaker of the cloudy urine (like a strong vinegar or something) and it should go clear if it is phosphates. Like amijgoro I also have this "hair trigger penis". It makes riding the bus, cycling and some trousers very very uncomfortable - I hate it, it makes me feel very lightly POISy. So even when I haven't had an orgasm for a very long period of time, I still have this to contend with which gives me light POIS symptoms, so pure blissful mental clarity is something I don't often have :'( I'm not sure if this is different from persistent sexual arousal disorder, I think it is because it is not that I have an erection all the time. Makes me suicidal sometimes! ^^ Nobody would understand though except for the people on this forum.

I think the "hair trigger penis"  ?  will get better over time.  I used to be afraid of all arousal but as long as your abstaining and taking what you need to be taking to help with POIS the affects will be a lot less if not even there.

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17106 on: 10/08/2012 04:12:52 »
So I wonder if anyone has ever tried an anti-androgen. They're sometimes used by people who have a hair loss problem or who have severe acne, but a side effect is lower sex drive. I came across a site where they were talking about reducing their drive because some of them are orgasm addicts.(http://www.eunuch.org/forums/showthread.php?1018-30-Days-of-Androcur). One of the interesting things I read was that it made one of the users clear minded and relaxed after taking it. It also significantly reduces semen volume. Many of the POISers here also have a very high libido, including me. I always wondered if a very high libido is a symptom of POIS, or if it is the other way around. I'm very casually thinking about trying something like this, but I wouldn't take such high doses that the users are taking over there, as I would want to lower my drive, not eliminate it. At the very least, it would reduce the amount of orgasms I have and allow me to abstain for way, way longer.

This is just a question and not a recommendation to anyone. Also, there are a few side effects such as hot flashes lower muscle density.
It is interesting that Demografx has been "cured" effectively by testosterone patches which would have the opposite effect of an anti-androgen.

We had a talk about this quite a while ago, not sure if your were around.  I believe I posted a link about testosterone and histamine, I'll see if I can find it.  It might give out a plausible theory as to why extra testosterone has helped with demo's POIS.

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/201/4/740.abstract

It's interesting that even after they injected the rat with histamine, while on testosterone, the rat urinated about 23% of the injected histamine.  So it seems like testosterone almost "eats up" histamine.

I'm thinking more and more each day that the POIS reaction has to do with overrelease of histamine, or a reaction involving it in the brain.

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Offline Citizen A

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17107 on: 10/08/2012 05:40:22 »
Acronym, only thing that I can think of is that I stopped smoking then, after being hevy smoker for 20 years or so(2-3 packs a day). I also got cardiac arhytmia after I kicked it and started using magnesium+b vitamin supplement.  My mold/fungus/candida theory is based on my habit of having 4-5 beers (and sometimes even more) every night after work, that means a lot of yeast. That combined with antibiotics (whitch kill every useful microbe in your stomach, but yeast) is not a pleasent mix. I got white tongue and viscid saliva, developed lichen planus(spots on skin, bloody ulcers in my mouth-theyre worse when Im very worried and distressed) and nail fungus. So I kicked beer and other alcohol too, trying to get rid of them, stopped eating sugar etc. As I said I never had so severe POIS, as others here describe, or my other problems are equally annoying...  Don`t know. Im a pack of problems :D. Didnīt mean to whine though. I had hairtrigger penis in my young puberties, but then again, who doesnīt. It kinda went away after 17 or so. Seems to me, that I developed POIS after kicking my bad habits :)
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 06:02:39 by Citizen A »

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17108 on: 10/08/2012 11:19:40 »
Here's another back story. I was out in Coventry on the street and it got quite late. I was on the way back to the bus stop when two guys started giving me some trouble. A fight broke out and I fought them for a bit but being two against one they beat me down quite a bit until luckily some other people ran over and chased them off. I wasn't too bad, I had no blood or anything but I was quite dazed. The people called for an ambulance and when the paramedics arrived they looked at my pupils and kept asking me if I had "taken something". I repeatedly said no (not even alcohol) and they were very sceptical. So keywords are

sympathetic nervous system
eye dilation
fight-or-flight
dopamine

but here's the thing, dilated pupils from what I have read are caused by an EXCESS of dopamine. Isn't the general concensus that POIS is related to a lack of dopamine? Your thoughts please ^^

Not necessarily. Pupils dilate to let light into your eye so the shape of your eye could have an effect also. Pupils will also dilate in the case of a flight/fight sympathetic nervous system response. Say someone had a condition that led to low level of catecholamines (who knows why) on occasion and the brain had adapted to this with increased receptors. Then an arousal state (sexual, being threatened, actual aggression) would increase the levels of dopamine and perhaps a super-sensitive response. Levels of catecholamines are not constant & they try to balance themselves through actions like the release of prolactin after an O. In the case I describe, the person with the wildly fluctuating catecholamines may show very dilated pupils under stimulation. It doesn't mean that they wouldn't have an reduced levels of catecholamines to the point of dysfunction under some circumstances. It may also lead them to subconsciously seek out arousal to give them some respite. This is why, I believe, that a more drawn out arousal period with someone that you feel a bond with may actually help a POIS sufferer not have a really bad O. Whereas the worst case would be sudden and intense arousal, a temporary spike in dopamine followed by a quick O and sharp depletion. This is not remotely the same as suggesting it's a psychosomatic illness.

I've been asked questions about dilated pupils myself.  I don't have dilated pupils most of the time but I used to go to a very cute optician and, well, she used to snigger a bit when doing the eye exams. I asked her what the problem was and she said "well you're either on 'medication' or just very pleased to see me". I guess I was :)

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17109 on: 11/08/2012 00:31:09 »
Acronym, only thing that I can think of is that I stopped smoking then, after being hevy smoker for 20 years or so(2-3 packs a day). I also got cardiac arhytmia after I kicked it and started using magnesium+b vitamin supplement.  My mold/fungus/candida theory is based on my habit of having 4-5 beers (and sometimes even more) every night after work, that means a lot of yeast. That combined with antibiotics (whitch kill every useful microbe in your stomach, but yeast) is not a pleasent mix. I got white tongue and viscid saliva, developed lichen planus(spots on skin, bloody ulcers in my mouth-theyre worse when Im very worried and distressed) and nail fungus. So I kicked beer and other alcohol too, trying to get rid of them, stopped eating sugar etc. As I said I never had so severe POIS, as others here describe, or my other problems are equally annoying...  Don`t know. Im a pack of problems :D. Didnīt mean to whine though. I had hairtrigger penis in my young puberties, but then again, who doesnīt. It kinda went away after 17 or so. Seems to me, that I developed POIS after kicking my bad habits :)
Its ironic your health actually got a little worse after cleaning up your lifestyle. Maybe the mobilization of the accumulated toxins made things worse. Lots of brews + antibiotics is a receipe for candida. Okay so it seems you took ABx around the time you got POIS...yes?  I did (tetracyclines) too and so did a few others on this forum. I also had very white tongue & viscous saliva in my late teens at the same time  I got pois. I did not get nail fungus, but I noticed what was fungal like growth on parts of my body as well at that time. You have done the right things in terms of quiting beer + sugar. There is a good chance you have/had candida overgrowth. If you see a doctor about this chances are they will dismiss it. You will be better off seeing a naturopath or researching on the web, the diet & supplements to follow (an anti-fungal drug will make it quicker though)...it can be stubborn.  It took me a number of years before I found a doctor who picked up it was a problem for me and put me on nystatin and that took a while to work. I had a hard time sticking to strict diet, because of cravings.

Last year I had a great burst of health when my CFS doc put me an anti-parasite + anti-fungal (Nizoral) treatment. It wore off after a 5 wks. I subsequently retook both treatments and they worked less each time. At this stage I have not pushed for a stronger anti-fungal as I have been following another treatment protocol for the time being (for CFS).

A number of people here have had an improvment (not cure) in their pois by pretty much following an anti-candida program. Its a little surprising. Maybe a number of us (bit not all though) haver candida and that screws up our health to an extrent that other issues, compromised immunity, lowered ability to remove toxins or deficiences arise and we get pois. IDK. My pois definitely improves when I am on holidays were I spend most time outdoors in the mountains or by the sea. I don't know if these means lowered mold exposure or reduced pollutants so my body is able to detoxify things better.

I remember reading a few case histories for guys who took finasteride (for hair loss) and how it totally screwed them up, with quite a number having sexual related problems. what surprised me was how some of these guys restored their health by doing a detox, really clean lifestyle protocol. They had to flush the drug out of their system, reset their receptors and adopt a lifestlye/diet that provided all the nutrients that allowed their body to restore health. While not calling it an anti-candida diet, that is what they bascially did.

For the guy/s here considering Finisteride to lower their libido (does not work for all), be aware it could easily be permanent. If there is a cure for pois in the next couple of years and if you decide to go off finisteride and get back to business sex wise you will be disappointed. Your new gf wont be impressed with your apathy, low libido, erection dysfunction, inability to shoot & small loads. Likewise you wont be happy with reduced orgasm pleasure.  I realise a few here think that something like finisteride would be great to stop the lust + hair trigger response ...currently (but just realise there is a good chance you wont be able to go back, if you get a relationship or their is a cure).
« Last Edit: 11/08/2012 00:37:54 by acronym »

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Offline Citizen A

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17110 on: 11/08/2012 07:21:42 »
Not one doctor, of altogether 4, took seriously my candida theory, they all just talked about yeast infections of genitals. I took blood tests that turned out normal, including testosterone level (they didnīt test candida). I remember couple of times, that I had longer period (2-3weeks) without sex and Ive got itchy, reddish genitals, I blamed it to low hormone level and it wasnīt the same issue to me then.  Anyway somehow I think all autoimmune disorders and allergies are related with mold/fungus toxines in our bodies. I took lamisil  for three months 2 pills per day (twice the normal amount). At the same time I used terbinafinum ointment for my nails with a good outcome . But the fungus came slowly back after some time, so I blamed my working conditions and humidity. Basically I think, that candida/fungus gets stronger and immune to treatment, this explains the short term improvement with medications like nizoral and lamisil. At the moment I try all fresh vegetables diet, with two boiled eggs per day. The idea is cut off the starch/sugar as much as possible. Itīs my third day now and I expected some severe revenge, but so far I have only fatique, mild headache and mild insomnia, that can be just malnutrition. And Im not sure I got POIS before or after kicking my bad habits, maybe it was one of the reasons I came clean... Im pretty sure  it was the same time period though. I can do this diet only because Im in my summer  vacation now, I must eat normal to cope with my everyday job ,which starts again next week. Oh, and I belive that mild POIS is bodys normal responce to losing bodily fluids, hormones and minerals, you just donīt notice it before it gets acute and it gets acute only if your balance is way off because of other possible factors. Mine is not so mild, but bearable compaired to the others here. And having a vacation helps in many ways. I think that stress is the vital factor too, with Pois and allergies and autoimmune diseases. Itīs kinda like they work together- stress triggers them and they bring stress along with them, so itīs like an endless circle.
« Last Edit: 11/08/2012 07:50:20 by Citizen A »

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17111 on: 11/08/2012 11:49:29 »
Not one doctor, of altogether 4, took seriously my candida theory, they all just talked about yeast infections of genitals. I took blood tests that turned out normal, including testosterone level (they didnīt test candida). I remember couple of times, that I had longer period (2-3weeks) without sex and Ive got itchy, reddish genitals, I blamed it to low hormone level and it wasnīt the same issue to me then.  Anyway somehow I think all autoimmune disorders and allergies are related with mold/fungus toxines in our bodies. I took lamisil  for three months 2 pills per day (twice the normal amount). At the same time I used terbinafinum ointment for my nails with a good outcome . But the fungus came slowly back after some time, so I blamed my working conditions and humidity. Basically I think, that candida/fungus gets stronger and immune to treatment, this explains the short term improvement with medications like nizoral and lamisil. At the moment I try all fresh vegetables diet, with two boiled eggs per day. The idea is cut off the starch/sugar as much as possible. Itīs my third day now and I expected some severe revenge, but so far I have only fatique, mild headache and mild insomnia, that can be just malnutrition. And Im not sure I got POIS before or after kicking my bad habits, maybe it was one of the reasons I came clean... Im pretty sure  it was the same time period though. I can do this diet only because Im in my summer  vacation now, I must eat normal to cope with my everyday job ,which starts again next week. Oh, and I belive that mild POIS is bodys normal responce to losing bodily fluids, hormones and minerals, you just donīt notice it before it gets acute and it gets acute only if your balance is way off because of other possible factors. Mine is not so mild, but bearable compaired to the others here. And having a vacation helps in many ways. I think that stress is the vital factor too, with Pois and allergies and autoimmune diseases. Itīs kinda like they work together- stress triggers them and they bring stress along with them, so itīs like an endless circle.
Lot of cold water has been poured on the candida theory before but there's also some evidence that we're somehow not absorbing some proteins and vitamins properly as several POIS sufferers have messaged me to say they've responded to increasing protein and b vitamin intake.

Embarrassingly enough, I get thrush regularly and it rarely clears up. I was prescribed a few doses of fungicides. It returned but I did feel better for a while. Have you tried taking large amounts of garlic? If you take them in the morning with some taurine and probiotics later in the day it might give you some relief.

Even if you don't subscribe to the candida theory, there's no doubt that our diets have much more refined sugar and substances like MSG than 100 years ago. These may be generally safe in the sense that the lethal doses are quite high, but that doesn't mean that some people with other genetic or environmental interactions won't suffer an adverse affect.

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Offline dante88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17112 on: 11/08/2012 23:50:20 »
I thought that maybe my issue was candida as well...I was on tetracycline for many years (12-17 yrs old). I had a test performed by a local naturopath and the results were negative ( I didn't have Candida). I am wondering if it is another type of fungus that I am having issues with. It would make sense that we are unable to absorb and replenish nutrients because of fungal overgrowth. What exactly is the Candida diet?

My common sense is telling me that the issue is neurotransmitters (dopamine)...just because of how "strung out" I feel after sexual stimulation...but it could be a combination of the two (fungal overgrowth & neurotransmitter depletion).

I will say that I do have "jock itch", which is basically a fungus growing in my groin area...and I have had it for many years.

I'm still waiting on the Zaditen SRO to arrive...unfortunately its not available in the states, so it has to be shipped from Canada.

On a slightly more depressing note, my girlfriend of the past 7 months broke up with me yesterday because of my POIS symptoms...I'm hoping this anithistamine works...and I can lead a normal life.

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17113 on: 12/08/2012 03:11:13 »
dante88 - regarding you taking tetracyline from 12-17...at what age did you get pois?
Sorry to hear your gf broke up with you over pois. Its happened to me a few times, and I suspect more even if they try to make out its not because of that. I feel having pois also makes it hard to get a gf (in terms of having vitality & confidence) to begin with for some of us and that has definitly been the case for me + I am a skinny guy also and most girls are less friendly to begin with because of that. I initially dont tell a new woman I have pois, but after a while when she complains and wanting more sex I explain it. Because the relationships have not been long term to begin with, the last few lost interest in me after I told them. A number of guys here are married or have gfs. I wonder if most have found it a big negative when it came to gfs.

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17114 on: 12/08/2012 04:54:39 »
Dante in regards to antihistamines, have you tried claritin 24-hour?  It seems to work for me if I take it an hour before sex.  I am just wondering if you had tried it before and now trying something else because it didn't work or if its the first one you are trying.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17115 on: 12/08/2012 09:42:48 »
...
Sorry to hear your gf broke up with you over pois. Its happened to me a few times, and I suspect more even if they try to make out its not because of that. I feel having pois also makes it hard to get a gf (in terms of having vitality & confidence) to begin with for some of us and that has definitly been the case for me + I am a skinny guy also and most girls are less friendly to begin with because of that. I initially dont tell a new woman I have pois, but after a while when she complains and wanting more sex I explain it. Because the relationships have not been long term to begin with, the last few lost interest in me after I told them. A number of guys here are married or have gfs. I wonder if most have found it a big negative when it came to gfs.
It seems like it's a bit problem. I believed that 3 break ups were caused by POIS as, at the time, I decided to be honest early in the relationship (a few weeks) and it just didn't work.

The relationship I'm in now has been going for 8 years. I think the secret was that I was on a career break from work when I met her and I didn't mention anything about POIS for over 9 months and she was a bit older so took a more mature view on it. Those 9 months were crazy. I felt like crap sometimes but I just drank a lot of redbull (taurine, b's and caffeine) and pretended everything was fine. This might sound hypocritical but I decided that women do not want to hear there's a sexual problem in the early stages of a relationship. A shocking generalisation perhaps but POIS doesn't square with fairytale weddings, dream house and 2 kids. Even if all these things are possible, the mood swings and cognitive symptoms are not pleasant to deal with.

However, an interesting thing happened when I decided to ignore some of the POIS effects. I was less stressed and it got easier to deal with. The cognitive symptoms were still there but I wasn't obsessing about it. And I drank a lot of a popular energy drink :)

Then there's the confidence issue. If the girl says and does things to make you feel less confident then tell her. Why go out with someone who makes you feel bad? Unfortunately this is a really hard lesson to learn.

Where it's most problematic is in your 20s as you'll face unrealistic expectations and pressure from friends to be in a relationship, even with someone you're clearly unsuited to. Add another 10 years and potential girlfriends' priorities change dramatically. Then, the coping skills you've learned to deal with POIS can actually be a positive thing & mental strength to persevere can be more important than lifting weights in the gym. Not that I haven't done that :)

I'm not saying a relationship is impossible for a POIS sufferer (it's clearly not) but you need to have some perspective. Most relationships fail. If it wasn't POIS it could have been something else. Looking back at my 3 relationships that failed where I blamed POIS, I'm only friendly with and actually like one of the girls who later told me that the POIS thing wasn't the clincher for why we broke up. There were just other stressors, some of which had nothing to do with me. The other 2 girls were entirely unsuitable for emotional or spiritual reasons (views of the world and people were just too different) yet I was convinced for ages that the only reason those relationships failed was POIS. Don't get fixated on POIS as the reason for a breakup. People have their own baggage.

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Offline danny123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17116 on: 12/08/2012 11:13:11 »
THEORY: ADRENALINE

In the last 4 months my wife and I have been trying to have children. At first this was a terrifying prospect for me as I get severe psychological problems with the O. So bad I would normally only have one once every month or two. Anyway before this stage in our life I was terrified to have sex but something interesting has happened. Every time I have the "O" I have used my knowledge of how it effects me in a positive way. For example I thought to lay low with my social interactions because normally POIS challenges my social confidence, make a greater effort in my work performance because normally I perform poorly experiencing the brain fog, know I'm not seeing things to clearly so not respond to critically etc. And I found that I some how coped with the POIS effects ok. Then trying for babies again and another "O" and I have to be on guard again! And this experience has been repeated over and over. When I had breaks and the fog cleared for a  short while I noticed I had performed better at points when I had severe POIS?  Generally life is not worth living and everything feels bad with POIS, so the question is why is there a change? After some thought I've come up with the idea of adrenaline. Ok here's the theory I get so mentally psyched up that I produce natural adrenaline out of a pure desire to exercise as much control over my POIS as possible. I guess its like when I kayak a hard rapid, first I prepare for it by studying the danger areas and mentally rehearse my  decent down the rapid. Then I get on the water and it's clam and glassy before leading into the big water, I'm pumped and focused on what I have to do then finally I hit the big water and I'm trying to stick to the plan the best I can through the rapid. And eventually I pop out in one piece down the other side. It's the adrenaline,will desire and having some knowledge of my POIS experience that gets me POIS moments. The POIS problems don't go away but I prepare for them so I can come out the other side in one piece.

I don't know how adrenaline works when given to people but I wonder how it would work if I took it in small doses when I have POIS? I know there are views about antihistamines on this site so I wonder if this has any links to antihistamines? Because when a person has allergies they need antihistamines when they get a bad reaction but in severe reaction adrenaline is given to fight the infection. Do antihistamines carry adrenaline like properties? Is being given some adrenaline a good idea? Will it give us the energy, vitality and clarity in our moments of brain fog?   

Anyway look forward to hearing your thoughts : )       

b_racer

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17117 on: 12/08/2012 14:44:25 »
THEORY: ADRENALINE

In the last 4 months my wife and I have been trying to have children. At first this was a terrifying prospect for me as I get severe psychological problems with the O. So bad I would normally only have one once every month or two. Anyway before this stage in our life I was terrified to have sex but something interesting has happened. Every time I have the "O" I have used my knowledge of how it effects me in a positive way. For example I thought to lay low with my social interactions because normally POIS challenges my social confidence, make a greater effort in my work performance because normally I perform poorly experiencing the brain fog, know I'm not seeing things to clearly so not respond to critically etc. And I found that I some how coped with the POIS effects ok. Then trying for babies again and another "O" and I have to be on guard again! And this experience has been repeated over and over. When I had breaks and the fog cleared for a  short while I noticed I had performed better at points when I had severe POIS?  Generally life is not worth living and everything feels bad with POIS, so the question is why is there a change? After some thought I've come up with the idea of adrenaline. Ok here's the theory I get so mentally psyched up that I produce natural adrenaline out of a pure desire to exercise as much control over my POIS as possible. I guess its like when I kayak a hard rapid, first I prepare for it by studying the danger areas and mentally rehearse my  decent down the rapid. Then I get on the water and it's clam and glassy before leading into the big water, I'm pumped and focused on what I have to do then finally I hit the big water and I'm trying to stick to the plan the best I can through the rapid. And eventually I pop out in one piece down the other side. It's the adrenaline,will desire and having some knowledge of my POIS experience that gets me POIS moments. The POIS problems don't go away but I prepare for them so I can come out the other side in one piece.

I don't know how adrenaline works when given to people but I wonder how it would work if I took it in small doses when I have POIS? I know there are views about antihistamines on this site so I wonder if this has any links to antihistamines? Because when a person has allergies they need antihistamines when they get a bad reaction but in severe reaction adrenaline is given to fight the infection. Do antihistamines carry adrenaline like properties? Is being given some adrenaline a good idea? Will it give us the energy, vitality and clarity in our moments of brain fog?   

Anyway look forward to hearing your thoughts : )       

b_racer
It's another of the catecholamines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catecholamine
dopamine is a byproduct of the synthesis of adrenaline as it's oxidised and then methylated into epinephrine (the other word for adrenaline). So when your adrenal gland produces adrenaline you're also increasing your levels of dopamine as a side-effect.
I wouldn't recommend this as a POIS treatment for the simple reason that stimulating the adrenal gland to produce adrenaline will produce a temporary high but will also produce cortisol (a stress hormone). It's also psychologically bad as you're conditioning a stress / anxiety response to deal with cognitively difficult tasks. Over at the poiscenter website we've found that a lot of POIS suffers seem to have quantitative jobs like finance or forms of engineering. Life becomes pretty unbearable if you have to do your demanding job on adrenaline as you are physiologically always stressed. It's a recipe for a nervous breakdown.

However, the adrenaline idea sounds plausible. It's bit like the way a 2nd O sometimes wipes out POIS so long as a body has the ingredients to spike dopamine levels but not prolactin. That's my theory anyway and some posters seem to have noticed this 2nd O effect.

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Offline dante88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17118 on: 12/08/2012 16:48:20 »
Kurtosis, that sounds very logical.

This kind of plays into my dopamine theory...during sexual arousal the body uses up a lot of dopamine...some of it is converted to norepinephrine (adrenaline). Since the hypothalamus is compromised by an immune reaction (elevated cortisol), the body is unable to replenish dopamine levels and therefore natural adrenaline response is also affected (feeling fatigued).

Have any of you noticed that you look different after "O"...like more pale and swollen eyes...and just a really tired look?

The symptoms of POIS and sexual exhaustion are very similar...from what I understand sexual exhaustion is caused by neurotransmitter depletion...

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17119 on: 12/08/2012 17:04:22 »
Kurtosis, that sounds very logical.

This kind of plays into my dopamine theory...during sexual arousal the body uses up a lot of dopamine...some of it is converted to norepinephrine (adrenaline). Since the hypothalamus is compromised by an immune reaction (elevated cortisol), the body is unable to replenish dopamine levels and therefore natural adrenaline response is also affected (feeling fatigued).

Have any of you noticed that you look different after "O"...like more pale and swollen eyes...and just a really tired look?

The symptoms of POIS and sexual exhaustion are very similar...from what I understand sexual exhaustion is caused by neurotransmitter depletion...

Yes, I believe POIS is  just a very extreme version of what other people go through.

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Offline KOSTAS52

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17120 on: 14/08/2012 05:19:28 »

I have also ADD and after an Air Plane trips I have jet lag too.
I feel very lucky that finally after years of guilt and ignorance I find a label about this condition
I am 36
In my 26 I discovered that I am a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP)
In my 30's I discoverd about my ADHD
In my 35 about POIS




JP's PROFILE QUESTION

I agree with JP that if we learn more about each others' shared traits and similarities, we may learn more about POIS contributing factors.

I won't lay out my life story here, but I'll try to check in time to time with tidbits that may be relevant.

I suffer terrible jet lag, almost like POIS. The most disturbing part is an incredibly intense feeling of disorientation, particularly after the return home. Like the proverbial fish out of water. It can last a week on both sides.

Depression and ADD have periodically been problems as I noted earlier.

POIS has ruined a good chunk of my life, either beause of active symptoms or "hanging over my head" like a curse.

Enough for now, thanks

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Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17121 on: 15/08/2012 08:03:07 »
It seems my POIS is cured..  Almost 90% of the symptoms gone in just two months of medicine.   

As I posted in my previous post, my doctor has suspected muscle weakness and prescribed Homeopathic medicines. But this not work for me.  and I found that POIS is not due to muscle weakness and I stop this medicine.  then I started for searching effective medicine for allergy. 

By god's grace, my friend suggested me to take Neem Capsules daily one after wakeup.  I took this for two months and my POIS symptoms started declining.    Now even I had two or three o in a day.  I will be affected for very mild POIS symptoms say only 10% of earlier.   Hopefully to clear this 10% in some time by continuing neem capsules. 

Further, this result is constant from the last one month and I followed two weeks rule here. 

Also see the benefits of Neem power capsule for allergy. 
thanks to god once. 

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Offline Starsky

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17122 on: 15/08/2012 10:20:28 »
Neem may become the first truly effective birth control "pill" for men (Riar, 1988).  Neem leaf tablets ingested for one month produced reversible male antifertility without affecting sperm production or libido (Deshpande, 1980) (Sadre, 1984).  In India and the United States, exploratory trials show neem extracts reduced fertility in male monkeys without inhibiting libido or sperm production (Sharma, et al, 1987).

In a test of neem's birth control effects with members of the Indian Army, daily oral doses of several drops of neem seed oil in gelatin capsules were given to twenty married soldiers. The effect took six weeks to become 100 percent effective, it remained effective during the entire year of the trial and was reversed six weeks after the subjects stopped taking the capsules. During this time the men experienced no adverse side effects and retained their normal capabilities and desires. (Vietmeyer, 1992) There were no pregnancies of any of the wives during the period of the study.

For long term birth control for men it appears that a very minute amount of neem oil injected in the vas deferens provides up to eight months of birth control. The tests revealed no obstructions, no change in testosterone production and no anti-sperm antibodies. The local lymph nodes showed increased ability to respond to infections indicating an immune response may be responsible for the birth control effect in men as it is in women. (Upadhyay, 1993)

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Offline Starsky

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17123 on: 15/08/2012 14:53:37 »
There are some studies that show that neem bark extract and neem seed oil caused arrest of spermatogenesis within 2 months, with a decrease in the number of Leydig cells (responsible for the manufacturing of testosterone) (Randhawa 1996)

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17124 on: 15/08/2012 23:36:42 »
There are some studies that show that neem bark extract and neem seed oil caused arrest of spermatogenesis within 2 months, with a decrease in the number of Leydig cells (responsible for the manufacturing of testosterone) (Randhawa 1996)
I never knew this  about neem. Amazing, but what you say..."decrease in the number of Leydig cells", hardly sounds ideal. Okay, I just read leydig cells can regenerate, but it seems with the aid of a drug like HCG.

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17125 on: 15/08/2012 23:50:10 »
It seems my POIS is cured..  Almost 90% of the symptoms gone in just two months of medicine.   
..........
Also see the benefits of Neem power capsule for allergy. 
thanks to god once.
This is wonderful news for you natham (and hopefully for many of us), and I'm impressed with the 3 Os in a day test, but if it holds up still as well in the months to come will be the 2nd test aspect to this potential cure. I've used Neem Oil shampoo to treat fungal conditions and knew of its use a anti-fungal + mild anti-bacterial + pestiside herb. I've seem the oil in health food stores which I thought was for topical applications but never any capsules. So according to Starsky its reducing your sperm and testosterone levels. Please keep us impormed if its still working for you just as good in the weeks to come.

I thought the 'allergy' theory as based on semen not sperm...can someone please correct me if I am wrong.
This is a little weird in that a few have got relief from increasing their T not reducing it. Also lowered T levels might not be so bad when you are young & super horny, but low T in your teens can possibly effect your growth size. Starksy mentioned a test with the Indian army, which showed no undersired side effects, but I do find that surprising if the result is less leydig cells ---> less testosterone + less dhea.
« Last Edit: 16/08/2012 00:02:38 by acronym »

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Offline fidalgo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17126 on: 16/08/2012 15:46:04 »
It seems my POIS is cured..  Almost 90% of the symptoms gone in just two months of medicine.   

As I posted in my previous post, my doctor has suspected muscle weakness and prescribed Homeopathic medicines. But this not work for me.  and I found that POIS is not due to muscle weakness and I stop this medicine.  then I started for searching effective medicine for allergy. 

By god's grace, my friend suggested me to take Neem Capsules daily one after wakeup.  I took this for two months and my POIS symptoms started declining.    Now even I had two or three o in a day.  I will be affected for very mild POIS symptoms say only 10% of earlier.   Hopefully to clear this 10% in some time by continuing neem capsules. 

Further, this result is constant from the last one month and I followed two weeks rule here. 

Also see the benefits of Neem power capsule for allergy. 
thanks to god once.

That is very intersting Nathan. I want to try.

I have some doubts. Do you only take the pills in the day one or take every day? What is the dosage?

I had already order some pills to test...

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17127 on: 17/08/2012 06:46:31 »
nathan - did you use seed or leaf neem?

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Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17128 on: 18/08/2012 08:05:38 »
nathan - did you use seed or leaf neem?

I used Neam leaf powder.  I bought this powder from the herbal shop and I fill this into empty capsules.  I eat this daily one (after wakeup, before eating / drinking) from the past two and two half months.  I got the result within 20 days after this usage.  As posted in my previous mail, my doctor suspected muscle weakness.  Over a period of time, my doctor and I both concluded that it is not due to muscle weakness for the following reasons.

a) Some times I experienced POIS symptoms starting after 15 to 20 hours after orgasm. 
b) Some times without having orgasm,  I got POIS symptoms by watching sexual scenes and movies.
c) further doctor told if it is a mucle weakness then there will be a heavy physical strain.  But in POIS period, physically I am very strong.  I can hit even 10 people if required, but my mental status was worst.
d) Further, on my face, I had white patches like pimple which is filled up with white liquid.  skin specialist tested this and he concluded that this is not a pimples, rather a patches because of allergy in the body. 

So, I started searching for cure for allergy.  In one of the website  I found a post by one person who was suffering from depression, headche, mental stress, reddish eyes, brain fog (same as POIS symtoms) after eating sea foods and this will gradually cured in 3 days.    He took neem capsule for 4 months.  Afterwords his problem was completely cured.  Based on this, I asked my friend who is a herbal products dealer.  He suggested me to try this.  Because of this I tried this product and it has worked for me. 

Further, Yesterday I tested my sperm levels, as in some website it says Neem will decrease the sperm counts which is reversible nature.  But for me there was no decrease and all levels are normal in semen.  So, I thought I may be cured (not fully say 90%) because of following benefits of neem
1) It increases immune system capability.
2) Decreases auto immune diseases.
3) Decreases allergy
4) one of the good anit-oxidant
5) Fight against virus, bacteria if it is there in body.




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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17129 on: 18/08/2012 21:14:40 »
I have a rather strange story about my muscle growth as a teen while having POIS.  I am curious about this now as I'm starting to find I have circulation issues, and muscle growth is very related to good/bad circulation.  This is why you see many muscle growth products advertising circulation enhancing products (many contain products that increase nitric oxide (NO) for example).

My strangeness is that by the age of 16, I had developed large neck, back and butt muscles, without exercising them.  I was having people tell me "wow your neck is so thick, you look so big!"  This is in contrast to the front of my body and arms, which were much less developed.  I wasn't complaining, I looked like I was a physically fit guy (from the front and back) which helped me get the attention of women   

But if you view me from the side, it was not such an appealing sight.  Firstly, I have mild pectus excavatum, or a "bowl chest" which makes sort of a cave in the middle.  This made my lower ribs stick out, and if I wore a shirt some mean people would say I looked like I had breasts.  There was so much muscle mass on my back, that it gave me an imbalanced look from the side.  I was almost hunchbacked, my neck and trapezoidal muscles were (are) so large.  Also, my jaw may have not developed as it should, since I have a mild overbite and a small jaw.

Also strange are that I have narrow wrists and forearms, which looked quite scrawny when I was young.  I later was motivated to exercise my arms and chest to try to improve my figure.  I have developed large biceps/triceps and have larger chest muscles, but the chest has been very hard to grow.  I am thinking, maybe I have circulation issues with the front of my torso that diverted blood/nutrients to my rear that caused it to grow so much but out of balance with the rest?  If that's true, did this also contribute to my "bowl chest" by stopping/weakening it's growth, and the same for my forearms and jaw?  Your front and back are innervated (supplied) by different nerves.  The main nerve in the front is the vagus nerve, which if understimulated has been shown to cause depression (there is a treatment for depression where they install a vagus nerve stimulator in your body).

And equally strange is the muscle distribution in my legs.  It's the same imbalance but reversed, the front (quadriceps) is really strong while the back (hamstrings) are seriously weaker.  I ran on my highschool track team, and was a very good sprinter, and I could kick a soccer ball very hard and far.  But I found out, when I played football (American), that I could not push others out of my way nearly as hard with my legs.  This motion involves your rear leg (hamstrings) much more!  On weight training days, I would be embarassed when I had to perform "squats" with my legs because I couldn't do half as much as the other guys for nearly as long.  I work on those muscles to this day, and it has been hard to grow them!

I'm wondering if this has to do with POIS and my findings that I have circulation issues.  My doctor told me I have Raynaud's Disease, where my hands and feet are purplish and blotchy showing bad circulation.   Niacin, ginko, fenugreek all dilate your vessels, improving circulation and helping our POIS.  I'm having trouble taking anything that promotes nitric oxide (NO), it's causing interactions with my psychiatric medications.  I wish that didn't happen.

EDIT: the niacin flush is really centered around the front torso and arms.  Coincidence or important?

Anyways, I'm curious if other guys here have similar stories.  Also, in the days before niacin and vitamins, if I had a "hard" orgasm (basically where it felt REALLY good), the weaker muscles in the back on my leg would feel soooo sore the next day, like I had old-man muscles.  I know you guys have soreness.  Where is it the most?

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Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17130 on: 19/08/2012 21:31:12 »
nathan - did you use seed or leaf neem?

I used Neam leaf powder.  I bought this powder from the herbal shop and I fill this into empty capsules.  I eat this daily one (after wakeup, before eating / drinking) from the past two and two half months.  I got the result within 20 days after this usage.  As posted in my previous mail, my doctor suspected muscle weakness.  Over a period of time, my doctor and I both concluded that it is not due to muscle weakness for the following reasons.

a) Some times I experienced POIS symptoms starting after 15 to 20 hours after orgasm. 
b) Some times without having orgasm,  I got POIS symptoms by watching sexual scenes and movies.
c) further doctor told if it is a mucle weakness then there will be a heavy physical strain.  But in POIS period, physically I am very strong.  I can hit even 10 people if required, but my mental status was worst.
d) Further, on my face, I had white patches like pimple which is filled up with white liquid.  skin specialist tested this and he concluded that this is not a pimples, rather a patches because of allergy in the body. 

So, I started searching for cure for allergy.  In one of the website  I found a post by one person who was suffering from depression, headche, mental stress, reddish eyes, brain fog (same as POIS symtoms) after eating sea foods and this will gradually cured in 3 days.    He took neem capsule for 4 months.  Afterwords his problem was completely cured.  Based on this, I asked my friend who is a herbal products dealer.  He suggested me to try this.  Because of this I tried this product and it has worked for me. 

Further, Yesterday I tested my sperm levels, as in some website it says Neem will decrease the sperm counts which is reversible nature.  But for me there was no decrease and all levels are normal in semen.  So, I thought I may be cured (not fully say 90%) because of following benefits of neem
1) It increases immune system capability.
2) Decreases auto immune diseases.
3) Decreases allergy
4) one of the good anit-oxidant
5) Fight against virus, bacteria if it is there in body.




For those of you who are interested in trying neem leaf.  What has apperently been safe for use over thousands of years is dried or fresh neem leaves, this equates to "neem leaf powder", which is just ground up neem leaves.  I have read both neem leaf extracts and oils may be toxic, especially if used over long periods of time.  These are much more potent than what was traditionally used in ancient and alternative medicine.  Although, neem leaf oil is considered GRAS (generally recognized as safe) by the FDA for the use as a pesticide on agricultural products, the use of neem oil products sold for humans is for topical use on skin. 

I think this looks like a good experiment to try neem leaf poweder, but i would be carefull of using neem oil or extract for an extended period of time. 

also on another note, I read that the male contraceptive experiment was misrepresented and that most likely it was the women that also used neem oil intravaginally before sex, which provides spermicidal properties for up to five hours after insertion.

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Offline jferr

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17131 on: 19/08/2012 23:18:01 »
I have a rather strange story about my muscle growth as a teen while having POIS.  I am curious about this now as I'm starting to find I have circulation issues, and muscle growth is very related to good/bad circulation.  This is why you see many muscle growth products advertising circulation enhancing products (many contain products that increase nitric oxide (NO) for example).

My strangeness is that by the age of 16, I had developed large neck, back and butt muscles, without exercising them.  I was having people tell me "wow your neck is so thick, you look so big!"  This is in contrast to the front of my body and arms, which were much less developed.  I wasn't complaining, I looked like I was a physically fit guy (from the front and back) which helped me get the attention of women   

But if you view me from the side, it was not such an appealing sight.  Firstly, I have mild pectus excavatum, or a "bowl chest" which makes sort of a cave in the middle.  This made my lower ribs stick out, and if I wore a shirt some mean people would say I looked like I had breasts.  There was so much muscle mass on my back, that it gave me an imbalanced look from the side.  I was almost hunchbacked, my neck and trapezoidal muscles were (are) so large.  Also, my jaw may have not developed as it should, since I have a mild overbite and a small jaw.

Also strange are that I have narrow wrists and forearms, which looked quite scrawny when I was young.  I later was motivated to exercise my arms and chest to try to improve my figure.  I have developed large biceps/triceps and have larger chest muscles, but the chest has been very hard to grow.  I am thinking, maybe I have circulation issues with the front of my torso that diverted blood/nutrients to my rear that caused it to grow so much but out of balance with the rest?  If that's true, did this also contribute to my "bowl chest" by stopping/weakening it's growth, and the same for my forearms and jaw?  Your front and back are innervated (supplied) by different nerves.  The main nerve in the front is the vagus nerve, which if understimulated has been shown to cause depression (there is a treatment for depression where they install a vagus nerve stimulator in your body).

And equally strange is the muscle distribution in my legs.  It's the same imbalance but reversed, the front (quadriceps) is really strong while the back (hamstrings) are seriously weaker.  I ran on my highschool track team, and was a very good sprinter, and I could kick a soccer ball very hard and far.  But I found out, when I played football (American), that I could not push others out of my way nearly as hard with my legs.  This motion involves your rear leg (hamstrings) much more!  On weight training days, I would be embarassed when I had to perform "squats" with my legs because I couldn't do half as much as the other guys for nearly as long.  I work on those muscles to this day, and it has been hard to grow them!

I'm wondering if this has to do with POIS and my findings that I have circulation issues.  My doctor told me I have Raynaud's Disease, where my hands and feet are purplish and blotchy showing bad circulation.   Niacin, ginko, fenugreek all dilate your vessels, improving circulation and helping our POIS.  I'm having trouble taking anything that promotes nitric oxide (NO), it's causing interactions with my psychiatric medications.  I wish that didn't happen.

EDIT: the niacin flush is really centered around the front torso and arms.  Coincidence or important?

Anyways, I'm curious if other guys here have similar stories.  Also, in the days before niacin and vitamins, if I had a "hard" orgasm (basically where it felt REALLY good), the weaker muscles in the back on my leg would feel soooo sore the next day, like I had old-man muscles.  I know you guys have soreness.  Where is it the most?


Nightingale,

I have also been interested in a part POIS hypothesis that includes circulations issues. When in my POIS I have a lot of dizzy spells, especially when I get up from sitting or laying down. I am also unable to focus my eyes on things and they get bloodshot. My head also feels restricted and clogged. I am also unable to be still without my hands or mouth mildly shaking. I sometimes wonder if this is also a product of imporper circulation. Improper circulation to the brain can also cause a multitude of problems, including cognitive. Now I don't believe that circulation is the cause of all cognitive symptoms but it could certainly contribute.

I have tried things like hanging upside down and such to little or no avail.

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Offline jferr

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17132 on: 19/08/2012 23:19:32 »
Hey guys,

If anybody has severe conitive issues/headaches, trouble reacting to social stimuli along with physical symptoms I would love to chat. It would do nothing but help.

Anyone who is interested in chatting send me a message. We would both benefit from it.

Thanks.

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Offline Joe L. Ogan

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17133 on: 20/08/2012 00:56:55 »
The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).  Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan

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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17134 on: 20/08/2012 22:09:43 »
Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?

Do you have a background in psychology/psychiatry?  If not, I really don't think this deserves an answer...

The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).

Oh really?  If they did, do you think we would be doing all that we are doing here on these forums???
« Last Edit: 20/08/2012 22:12:35 by Nightingale »

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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17135 on: 20/08/2012 22:18:50 »
Nightingale,

I have also been interested in a part POIS hypothesis that includes circulations issues. When in my POIS I have a lot of dizzy spells, especially when I get up from sitting or laying down. I am also unable to focus my eyes on things and they get bloodshot. My head also feels restricted and clogged. I am also unable to be still without my hands or mouth mildly shaking. I sometimes wonder if this is also a product of imporper circulation. Improper circulation to the brain can also cause a multitude of problems, including cognitive. Now I don't believe that circulation is the cause of all cognitive symptoms but it could certainly contribute.

I have tried things like hanging upside down and such to little or no avail.

I think hanging upside down would not help constricted vessels in your head.  Circulation can be affected by a few factors, including how open your vessels/capillaries are.  I'm afraid we have vasoconstricted capillaries which prevent greater flow of blood to them, even when pressure is increased.  If you havn't tried it, take some Fenugreek capsules, and hawthorn and beetroot.  All these things are vasodilators and are natural, they could help you out!

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Offline Stef

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17136 on: 20/08/2012 23:06:22 »
The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).  Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan

Hi Joe L. Ogan,

You're actually correct about the medical field's POIS-ignorance. They're barely aware of POIS, in the same way that most of them are unaware of the almost 7,000 documented rare disorders. (POIS is a documented rare disorder, listed on both the NIH Office of Rare Disease Research list AND on Orphanet's list, which is the European counterpart.)

However, many researchers DO know about POIS -- through NORD (rarediseases.org) and through the publicity brought about by some very brave, wonderful POIS forum members. 

It's absolutely not psychiatric in origin -- but I can understand why you asked the question. POIS causes such complete misery -- isolation, inflammatory-type physical pain, overwhelming fatigue, foggy thinking --> these are only some of the symptoms, which can last for two weeks or even longer. Many POIS-sufferers are unable to continue with their jobs or their education.

I feel that your question was asked in a most respectful tone, so wish to thank you for your interest. It's an awful, life-altering rare disorder that is crying out for research funds.

These men are getting there!! Despite the intense need for privacy, they have a very active research fund for POIS at NORD. https://www.rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations/fg_base_view_p3

Stef

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Offline Stef

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17137 on: 20/08/2012 23:54:25 »
Demografx, the previous and dedicated moderator of the NSF POIS thread, posted the following on poiscenter.com, just a short while ago --

"Today, poiscenter.com appears in The Wall Street Journal."
--

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/poiscentercom-announces-fundraising-effort-to-combat-rare-severely-debilitating-sexual-disorder-2012-08-20

Daveman and Demografx are an AMAZING team!!!!!  The WSJ is only one media outlet that's capturing the story. :-)

Stef
« Last Edit: 20/08/2012 23:58:59 by nordnurse »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17138 on: 21/08/2012 02:59:20 »
Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?

Do you have a background in psychology/psychiatry?  If not, I really don't think this deserves an answer...

The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).

Oh really?  If they did, do you think we would be doing all that we are doing here on these forums???

why did you respond so harshly when he asked so nicely, he is just a curious person.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17139 on: 21/08/2012 03:01:27 »
The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).  Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan

adding to what nordnurse said. some of us have taking the prescribed antidepressant by doctors and it didnt help. And another person had psychological counseling that didn't help and i dont think their  psychologist  believe it is psychological.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17140 on: 21/08/2012 10:13:37 »
Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?

Do you have a background in psychology/psychiatry?  If not, I really don't think this deserves an answer...

The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).

Oh really?  If they did, do you think we would be doing all that we are doing here on these forums???

why did you respond so harshly when he asked so nicely, he is just a curious person.

For the benefit of Joe L. Ogan, POIS sufferers can be very touchy about any suggestion that the disease is psychiatric in origin. The reason for this is quite obvious when you think about it. The natural response for doctors hearing about such an illness is to assume some psychosexual condition brought about by anxiety and stress related to sexual acts. Some of us have experienced severe cognitive symptoms which have rendered us unable to function including displacement, severe memory loss, inability to concentrate accompanied by headaches, pain behind the eyes etc.

From what I've read most POIS sufferers have been referred to psychiatrists (or variations thereof) but, despite taking the range of meds prescribed, not a single POIS sufferer has been cured by treatment of an anxiety disorder.

That's really important to understand. There are sufferers who have taken their prescribed medication for months or years while still suffering POIS symptoms. I can't speak for everybody but I do feel a bit let down by the greater medical community. Apart from NORD, people suffering from a rare condition are being treated like lunatics, malingerers or both.

I myself have experienced this whereupon a psychiatrists attempted to find anxiety issues that weren't there over 2 sessions. Whenever I said I wasn't worried about something, he'd ask "are you sure?". The psychiatrist decided that I was simply suffering from an acute anxiety disorder and needed yet more medication. Eventually I got to see another shrink who decided I wasn't demonstrating any of the normal symptoms of an anxiety disorder and sent me to an allergist. This is proving fruitful and after several blood tests it's clear that, for whatever reason, my body is constantly fighting some allergy.

This has left me with a very dim view of psychiatrists and the prescription of drugs with uncertain actions and severe interactions to cure illnesses that may or may not be in someone's head. You will find that view elsewhere on the forum as there are anecdotes about telling the psychiatrist / psychologist that whatever treatment isn't working and effectively being told that you / the problem is stubborn and needs more drugs.

That's why questions, no matter how well intentioned, about psychosomatic origins for POIS are like red rags to bulls.

Indeed far from generalised anxiety, the POIS sufferer seems solely anxious with what happens when they have an O but oddly remains optimistic of finding a cure. Personally, I'm not depressed. I've found ways to alleviate my symptoms but it's not "cured" and I do feel some frustration that a cause & cure haven't been identified. That's why we want to get a NORD research grant. 

Despite the condition, there's very little fighting or arguing on this and the other forum. Indeed, it seems that most of us have quantitative jobs like engineering and finance and just want to figure out a way past this as cognitive and memory problems are frustrating as are accompanying other symptoms which sometimes resemble hay fever.

Things that have brought some relief include niacin supplementation (so long as there's a flush of prostaglandin from mast cells and we can feel it), vasodilators, testosterone supplementation, supplements that boost testosterone and anti-allergy medications such as non-steroidal anti-inflammatories and steroidal anti-infllammatories.

So our working hypothesis is that POIS is at least partially caused by an allergy and that its cognitive symptoms may be caused by problems in neurotransmitter levels. That's where we are. It's been a long road getting there.

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Offline fidalgo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17141 on: 21/08/2012 14:11:44 »
Kurtosis, you said that "after several blood tests it's clear that, for whatever reason, my body is constantly fighting some allergy". What blood tests your doctor do?

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17142 on: 21/08/2012 16:45:29 »
Kurtosis, you said that "after several blood tests it's clear that, for whatever reason, my body is constantly fighting some allergy". What blood tests your doctor do?

RAST tests to determine IgE levels. I've had 2 tests done over the past few years and they all come back with elevated IgE levels. I got another one done recently and was told over the phone some of the results were high and to come in and discuss it. I seem to have a lot of strong allergies but they don't check specifically for POIS-related allergens as they don't know what POIS is :)

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Offline Joe L. Ogan

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17143 on: 21/08/2012 18:28:47 »
Please permit me to say that there is nothing wrong with having a psychological problem.  Please do not misinterpret this statement to mean that I believe the problem to be psychological.  With all due respect, is the problem more prevalent among people who have a scientific background?  This does not seem logical to me but, since the only people that I know that have it, are people with scientific backgrounds, it poses the question.  No offence meant to anyone.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan 
« Last Edit: 21/08/2012 18:30:40 by Joe L. Ogan »

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Offline observercenter

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17144 on: 21/08/2012 19:25:07 »
Please permit me to say that there is nothing wrong with having a psychological problem.  Please do not misinterpret this statement to mean that I believe the problem to be psychological.  With all due respect, is the problem more prevalent among people who have a scientific background?  This does not seem logical to me but, since the only people that I know that have it, are people with scientific backgrounds, it poses the question.  No offence meant to anyone.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan 

Who do you know suffering from POIS ? I do not think that we could jump into this conclusion. I bet that thousands of men are suffering from POIS all over the world and they do not know what is happening to them. It could happen to anyone. I have a scientific background, but when I got POIS I had not, so why are you asking the question?
If I have an Orgasm I would suffer from severe cognitive impairment, lethargy, depression, brain fog, bad stomach, red eyes..., but if I take the niacin pre-O I will block the symptoms. If you met any of us, you will notice the difference very clearly. 

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17145 on: 21/08/2012 20:04:37 »
Please permit me to say that there is nothing wrong with having a psychological problem.

Perhaps there isn't but that is not our understanding of what we're going through.

Quote
Please do not misinterpret this statement to mean that I believe the problem to be psychological.  With all due respect, is the problem more prevalent among people who have a scientific background?  This does not seem logical to me but, since the only people that I know that have it, are people with scientific backgrounds, it poses the question.  No offence meant to anyone.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan 

That's an interesting question. I don't know who else you know with POIS but the question arose on the other forum at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=55.0
It's unlikely there's such a small group of people globally with this condition so a more plausible explanation is that we gravitated to this forum because

1) We had jobs requiring analytical skills and memory above the "average" and we could see that POIS was compromising these abilities. In some cases severely.
2) The association between an orgasm and the cognitive impairment is difficult to make and even when you make it you tend to deny it for a while. Years in some cases. The desire to fix the problem comes from frequently facing the effects of POIS in a demanding job. Who knows how many others are feeling these symptoms but dismissing it as feeling "under the weather" or suffering from other stressors.
3) We're all able to use the internet to research things and in the same manner, we came upon this site. Many came from watching the video on youtube.

Given the small sample size and the unique nature of the interaction here (on a science forum) it's difficult to draw conclusions. However, there may be a correlation between our personality types, neurotransmitter levels and POIS. I don't know :)

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Offline Joe L. Ogan

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17146 on: 21/08/2012 20:42:09 »
Hi, Thanks for your explanation.  My thought that there are probably many men and women suffering from the problem.  They must feel very isolated and alone.  I can see where they may feel very despondent from the isolation.  If possible, I would like to see some effort to identify them and give them some encouragement that they are not the only ones with the problem.  I also wonder if it is more prevalent among men than women.  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan

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Offline Mer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17147 on: 22/08/2012 02:50:35 »
Joe,

As soon as I have an O back of my throat start to get swollen. The bump gets so big that I hardly can swallow my saliva.

Could you please help me understand how can a physiological condition lead to this effects? After I get a wet dream while I'm sleeping, the next morning I have the same condition.

If you can help me to avoid this condition it will be great. For now, I will forget about brain fog etc. which are more cognitive.

Thanks!

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17148 on: 22/08/2012 04:24:42 »
Joe there is just no way that this problem is psychological.  I used to be able to "O" freely at any time that I wanted, as many times as I could.  Than one day -BAM!-  got hit by a POIS train and am still laying on the tracks wondering what hit me and how do I get off of these tracks.  The symptoms of POIS, at least my own symptoms, are so severely debilitating that if I take no supplements such as niacin or benadryl beforehand I will be in a state of torture for at least a day or two until symptoms subside.  It is twice as bad if I have to work.  There is no psychological explanation towards POIS.  How do you explain a burning sensation in the groin (have had that a couple of times) after orgasm?  How do you explain someones throat clogging?  Not by any psychological means.  It is purely a physical reaction causing all of these POIS symptoms.

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Offline Mermaid

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17149 on: 23/08/2012 02:55:33 »
Doesnt everyone know by now this is all about prolactin/dopamine? I am new to this post but I am not sure if that has been mentioned at all in the 709 previous pages but dont people know by now the cause of this illness is hormonal?!

The cause of POIS is most likely due to the surge in prolactin which stays elevated for days post orgasm. Prolactin counters dopamine, which causes tiredness, depression, anxiety, etc. So really, you are dealing with 2 problems. One is the side effects of high prolactin and the other is the side effects of low dopamine. Excess prolactin also can result in higher cortisol, blunted thyroid response, etc! Has no one has figured this out by now on this post?

I am actually a 22 year old female in college and have this so I am seeing a doctor to see about lowering prolactin levels. I didnt start suffering with this until 2 years ago so I am trying to put it all together. I am going to my doctors to see about getting an MRI to see if I have a prolactinoma. It makes sense to me that if I have a prolactinoma (tumour in my pituitary causing increased prolactin) that is already giving me high prolactin levels, then an orgasm, which greatly increases prolactin as well, could tip my system over the edge and just knock all dopamine down to nothing. So, if you have POIS, I suggest you see a doctor who can tell you whether you have high prolactin levels naturally, low dopamine/low testosterone/low progesterone/excess estrogen which all can leave one susceptible to prolactin, or some other condition like hypothyroidism that will make you not be able to tolerate the surge in prolactin post orgasm.

I really feel for you all I know this is super annoying. I didnt start connecting my symptoms to orgasm until recently but since I have stopped ummm...well you know! lol... I feel much better! Of course its just my luck that I had to have an orgasm in my sleep this morning and put me back at square one! UGH!!!!! But I will figure this out I am making an appt with a very good physician tomorrow that my school clinic recommended.

Hope this helps!
<3 :)