Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17450 on: 30/12/2012 20:08:52 »
Hello, I am new to this forum, but I have been following it  for sometime.   I  tend to agree with  some people here and I  am 100% sure that  high histamine levels are the  cause of the  problem. Now, the big  question  is how you deal with it. Trust me, nothing will help you  on a longer term basis  if you are going to look for a magic pill or  a shot of  adrenaline or  a calcium blocker( by the way worst thing you can do). This is systematic  problem of your body.  Almost in 90% of all cases   this is  a problem related to copper imbalance.  Copper deficiency , which can be caused by  many factors  will lead to  increase in  Ferritin ( if you are a male  I am very sure your ferritin level  is  higher than normal), which  will cause inflammation and higher histamine.  You will have low  manganese which in turn will lower your dopamine levels.  High copper  low histamine , low copper  high histamine.   Low adrenals = low ceruplasmin = low copper bound and high  biounavailable or toxic copper, which in turn causes  hyper thyrodism and  lowers adrenal even more.    You need to take  manganese 30 mg a day ,  50 mg zinc  and 3 mg  copper,  also 1gr  vitamin  C, B5.   It will automatically  fix your  na/k ratio in your cell and take care of calcium  problem. Also  buy  open  water.  It is the water with the  different angle in the molecule and that will take care of your candida problems , since  no copper  say hello to candida.


Best  Regards, 
Herman Bolduev

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17451 on: 30/12/2012 20:26:43 »
As 2012 draws to a close I'd just like to thank everyone on the NSF for the ideas they've shared and the interesting exchanges we've had over the past year. It's been fascinating.
I feel like we're making progress & I'll continue to post here in 2013. Thanks again my friends :)

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17452 on: 31/12/2012 07:39:36 »
This has been a pretty historic year for me, grabbing my pois by the horns and wrestling with it.  I'm 29 and this was my first full calendar year focusing on pois.  I echo Kurtosis' statements above.

Herman, I recently had my heavy metals tested... haven't gotten my results yet but will post them on January 8th when I do.  Copper and Histamine are known to be related at times, thank you for your post!
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17453 on: 31/12/2012 08:38:38 »
Daniel.   It is almost  impossible to be checked for heavy  metals. I am not guessing here, this is 100%.  Just check your ferritin  and ceruplasmin  levels .  This will clear up all your situation.   POIS is  iron copper manganese, calcium problem induced by copper(zinc ) imbalance. Which causes  low  pottasium in blood and high  in the cell.  Niacin   quercetin calcium channel blockers  are just temp solutions. There could not be a pill for it, this is systematic.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17454 on: 31/12/2012 08:43:17 »
It is extremely  hard to check for  metals which are used in  human metabolism. Most of the tests are incorrect.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17455 on: 31/12/2012 17:04:40 »
Gbolduev, I assume your symptoms are only cognitive since that is what I assume when the person doesn't list their symptoms. I'm curious to know how long you've been on these vitamins and how long your symptoms have been relieved for and to what extent. Do they help you with mental energy and thought speed, memory, or thought capacity(ability to hold multiple thoughts in your mind and multitasking) or all of these?

There are different types of POIS and while your theory may hold true for you it might not be the case for others here.
« Last Edit: 31/12/2012 17:07:21 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Prancer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17456 on: 31/12/2012 19:50:03 »
2012 has been a good year for me too. It's the year that I finally went from silent reader to poster. Also, we are all closer than ever to finding a solution to all of our pois conditions. Thank you to everyone, including kurtosis and B_Daniel - you guys are so smart! 2013 will be the year. I'm very optimistic! Then we can all get our normal lives back and make pois a distant memory, right after our big pois cure celebration, the drinks are on me. haha :]

Happy New Year everyone!

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17457 on: 31/12/2012 20:34:43 »
2012 has been a good year for me too. It's the year that I finally went from silent reader to poster. Also, we are all closer than ever to finding a solution to all of our pois conditions. Thank you to everyone, including kurtosis and B_Daniel - you guys are so smart! 2013 will be the year. I'm very optimistic! Then we can all get our normal lives back and make pois a distant memory, right after our big pois cure celebration, the drinks are on me. haha :]

Happy New Year everyone!
Thanks Prancer & thanks to B_Daniel who has been a great sounding board and good friend in 2012.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17458 on: 01/01/2013 09:15:30 »
Vincent M,  My symptoms  were very sore throat, panick attacks, temperature, brain  fog, sinusitis, depression ,  bad dreams,high blood pressure. My case was bad. Now I dont  have any symptoms and wont have them ever. Unless I  engage in  accesive sexual activity and wont  balance my body chemestry.  There are 2 cases of POIS to me.  Someone who is born with it,  someone who recieved this gift as a " punishment" for their life style ,  and there are 2 subcases,    infection  based  and inflammation based. What connects all these?  take a guess.   The answer is  cortisol.  Too high or  too low.  Too low  means your  thyroid is  way to sluggish , too high means  it could be fast or you are in acute  state of stress.  Both cases  have the main problem  which is  the biounavailability of copper.  In case of  low adrenal you have low ceruplasmin  and thus little available or bound copper,  and in case of  high thyroid  or acute stress, your copper is heavily used. Basically  the problem  of POIS is as electrical as chemical. I agree than  there are many reasons why  the  cortisol  gets     
effected , but in 90% cases , it is the problem  with copper.  Other cases  are very easy to see also.   People  who are born with POIS are  copper toxic people,   this " gift " was given them by their mother.   Dont get me wrong, by copper imbalance I  mean everything that  goes around copper metabolism , which  are  zinc  calcium ,  iron , manganese , blood PH( which is one of the most important ones, since it effects  ionized calcium and cell penetration ability ), neurotransmitters synthesis,   inflammattion and  infection control( candida, allergies,  prostaglandin  regulation).    Just send me  your tests if you have some and I will try to help you . I am not trying to  be know it all,  and I am not asking for anything in return.   

GOOD LUCK  in this NEW YEAR

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17459 on: 01/01/2013 15:34:37 »
Gbolduev, thanks for describing your symptoms. I'd still like to know how long it took for the vitamins to relieve those symptoms. Also what do you consider to be excessive sexual activity? One orgasm a day? One a week? How often do you need to refrain from orgasm and sexual activity in order to remain symptom free?

I am interested in your theory, but you must understand that I've read about many different theories on how to cure POIS so I am very skeptical at this point. The thing that speaks to me most is our members' actual results with various treatments, which is why I'm asking for the specifics of how you treated yourself.

Happy new year.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline observercenter

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17460 on: 01/01/2013 17:10:34 »
Hi Vincent Marcus, I agree with what you've said. I sent Gbolduev a PM asking those questions. It's not the first one who comes here and claims he has got the solution to our answers. But I'm very interested on what he has to say.

Happy new year to everyone!

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17461 on: 01/01/2013 17:42:23 »
Hi,  my email is  gbolduev@mail.ru.   If you have any questions  you can  send me emails , since I have been experiencing problems with  PMs  and I dont have time to constantly retype  my  answers.
I  am  not planning to be hanging out  on this forum and prove anything to anyone.  If I can help I would  do it, you  read what I wrote.  I will help everybody who needs help , I will spend my time and energy  and  I dont ask  anything in return..  I  am doing this  in memory of my wife who died  from cancer,  and I could not help her  since I was in completely different field that  time. 

It took me  3 months to restore to  NORMAL life   pre POIS like it never happened. 


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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17462 on: 01/01/2013 17:50:43 »
VINCENT  M,     POIS  does not exist, you have a systematic problem  at all times.   It can be triggered by stress even without  sex or orgasms.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17463 on: 01/01/2013 18:43:29 »
Here is the blood work, that I need to  see to help you .
1) electrolytes
2) Thyroid, TSH  T3 T4
3) ionized calcium and magnesium
4) Ferritin
5) Iron
6) Ceruplasmin

Even if you have old tests  send all of them to my e-mail, and I will create a program  for you.  Remember  4 cases of problems exist with your POIS. I will try to tell you which  case is you and how to  fix it.

gbolduev@mail.ru


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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17464 on: 02/01/2013 00:01:32 »
Herman, thanks for the lengthy explanation.  You seem to be a good guy who's trying to help.  I'm sure more than a few of us will take on your suggestions and see if your treatments apply to us.
-----------------

As a separate note, I realized last night that I am physically unable to keep my eyes open during a picture's flash in a dark room.  I blinked in 4 pictures in a row, where none of the other 4 people did, and then the photographer singled me out and took about 10 pics of me straight - where I blinked in every one.  It was the flash from an iphone5.  Everyone was laughing and found it hilarious that I couldn't keep my eyes open.  I researched it a little this morning to see if it could be pois related.  I don't like to assume every one of my problems can be explained by pois, but I found some interesting stuff:

"There is a circular opening located in the center of the iris that controls the amount of light that enters the eye. Excessive prostaglandin E2 (induced by excessive norepinephrine) and histamine in the retina, accompanied with a lack of serotonin, glycine, GABA and prostaglandin E1, can over-excite the visual receiving sensors."

"As a feedback control of the visual circuit, the photosensitivity of the receiving circuit decreases as dopamine increases, so that there is no truncation of visual signals entering the visual cortex. When the dopamine level is too low, though, the retinal receiving circuit becomes too sensitive to light. The eye pupils become dilated by the norepinephrine - sympathetic nervous function."
http://cure-erectile-dysfunction.org/vision-problems-eye-floaters-and-sexual-activity

Kind of interesting.



2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17465 on: 02/01/2013 06:32:04 »
B_Daniel.  Yes  Dr. Richards explains and sees the picture correctly.  His explanations are  precise  ,  the flash   or any intense light  are the problems to people in sexual  exhaustion. POIS is a type of  sexual and physical exhaustion, where  the body chemistry is  not balanced.   One thing I dont like about  Dr. Richards and his method  is that  he feeds everybody  the same thing, lets say  multi A,  or aminos, or fish oil.  multi -A has a lot of B complex vitamins, which will definetely  speed up  your thyroid.  But  adrenal and thyroid are connected, meaning  thyroid speeds up, you will feel the weakness in the adrenal, since thyroid will  make adrenal pump  its hormones faster.  I bet   that Dr. Richards  regimen will get  some people out of POIS but  into another problem.    Lets say if you are a case with a  fast thyroid,  then you will get  hypoglycemia on his regimen  and your energy  will decrease.   Body chemistry  has to be balanced according to your case. You cant just assume  you are in inflammation type of  balance,  since you can be in  infection type also.   

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17466 on: 02/01/2013 06:57:14 »
Also  Dr.Richards, just speeds you up, but he  does not solve  your electrical problems. He assumes your  adrenal takes over thyroid , which is not the case mostly. Usually  adrenals are so exhausted that it  takes time to feed them,  and you need to calm the person down,  feed the adrenals and then  feed the thyroid.   And if you feed  an exhausted person his regimen , then your thyroid will speed up first and put  that extra  stress on adrenal, and  all the nutrients that you get into adrenal will be used quickly.   When I was  sick at first, I did  Dr. Richards like regimen  and  the anxiety got better since my sodium  level went up, POIS got  better,  but boy I lost all energy , I was passing out walking  and that eventually  stressed me even more.  Also in the morning I started to vomit , since my blood sugar was just  way low.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17467 on: 02/01/2013 07:15:24 »
Same things  on heavy  exercise.  I got much better on heavy exercise,  but it created other problems.  Trust me guys I tried every thing.  I did B3 when this forum did not even exist. Because I though that I had  dystonia and  my blood vessels were screwed up, to my  surprise I got my after sex condition better.  Then I did  B3 plus  quercetin , quercetin to get rid of the flush, since it is phytoestrogen.  Then I  realized  that  quercetin worked by increasing copper that is why  D2 and E2 got  controlled. Then I sped myself up , and got into other  problems.  Then I  undestood that this is  systematic  problem and got into biochemestry  of it and  the body as a system, not  separate  parts.    There are 4 cases of this problem. Your body is a system, you cant use a pill, channel blocker or malic acid( amber acid) ATF energy boosters.   you need to balance every part, every pathway. 

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Offline jerryw

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17468 on: 03/01/2013 05:40:41 »
Hey Guys, I've had POIS for a quite some time.  Decided it was time I connected with you all on.  Happy New Year BTW.  Wanted to say thanks to you all for the interesting posts. 

I read in a number of places that I should join POIS center, but after viewing the site it seems to be not a forum but mainly fundraising site?  Is that right?  Is POIS center sponsored by NORD?  NORD seems like a very good organization, but I don't understand the connection.  Anyway, the admins at POIS center seem to be recommending this site for people who are looking for a cure.  I'm looking for a cure so I think I belong here. 

I recently started on a SCIT program and am currently at 1:10K.  I have confirmed allergic reaction to semen.  Will post more later. 

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Offline jerryw

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17469 on: 03/01/2013 05:43:44 »
Kurtosis, I have a question for you on this histamine theory.  Are the histamines induced as part of erection or as part of orgasm?  I've read that histamines have a link to erection, but it seems that healthy males have frequent erections during the night.  Therefore, it seems that the histamine burst would have to come from the orgasm to explain POIS.  Sorry, I'm still a newbie on your theory. 

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17470 on: 03/01/2013 08:41:41 »
Kurtosis, I have a question for you on this histamine theory.  Are the histamines induced as part of erection or as part of orgasm?  I've read that histamines have a link to erection, but it seems that healthy males have frequent erections during the night.  Therefore, it seems that the histamine burst would have to come from the orgasm to explain POIS.  Sorry, I'm still a newbie on your theory. 
Great to have a new poster Jerry.
Healthy males do. I do and histamine is involved in erections with more histamine being released as part of an O. I suspect some people like me are sensitive to the histamine released by an erection. I am so I'd be surprised if other sufferers aren't but you may not be.

However, I have several genetic mutations surrounding both methylation and deamination (MAO-A) which may be the reason why it takes me longer to reduce histamine levels after an O.

MAO A mutations can sometimes be associated with aggression and a male is more likely to have it as it's transmitted on the short arm of the X Chromosome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase
I guess it's lucky I was never exposed to gamma rays as a child or I could have turned into the incredible hulk. Combined with POIS, that would have been a real bummer for my family  ;) We like a little humor on NSF. It helps us deal with our POIS....

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17471 on: 03/01/2013 16:29:23 »

1)ceruplasmin
2) ferritin
3) iron
4) ionized calcium and magnesium
5) TSH FT3 FT4 and  RT3( very much needed)
 6) Electrolytes

This is  what  I need .  SO please  send me this and only this.  I cant make stuff up.   gbolduev@mail.ru

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17472 on: 03/01/2013 16:50:28 »
It took me  3 months to restore to  NORMAL life   pre POIS like it never happened. 

Thanks for your answer, Gbolduev.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17473 on: 03/01/2013 19:07:19 »
Beginning my trial of methionine today. I ordered thirty 500mg caps and I'll be taking one in the morning sometimes and sometimes one before orgasm. Just took one about 10 minutes ago.

I also took 350mg of mucuna pruriens today, which has been reliably(for ~1 month) giving me a slight energy boost that seems to last for up to a week with even just one cap. I'll be taking my usual fenugreek+tea combo in the morning and saw palmetto before orgasm. This will be in addition to a vitamin D3 trial I started a couple weeks ago, but hasn't had any effect yet and I don't expect it to considering I've never had any luck with vitamins(besides niacin).
« Last Edit: 03/01/2013 19:18:27 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17474 on: 03/01/2013 20:20:27 »
VIncent M,  what are you trying to do with methionine.   TO detoxify your liver you need choline, inositol  and methionine.  500 mg   3 times a day but it wont have  any effect on POIS even if you do this  for a year.  You  cant take  stuff before orgasm and hope for it to cure your POIS, since  it takes 3 months to break the cycle with no sex.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17475 on: 03/01/2013 20:33:40 »
I've read that methionine can reduce histamine levels. If it has a positive effect on my symptoms it will tell me that high histamine might be my problem.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17476 on: 03/01/2013 20:40:34 »
Histamine is a  part of the problem,  I was on  liver detox for half a year.  It is  not  the actual problem,  cause.  And  500 mg of methionine wont do anything at all...You might  get worse even.  to detox liver you need,  inositol  choline and  methionine. 500 mg  3 times a day ,  mostly to help you  with copper.  Send me your tests, I will definetely  help you,  trusts me  the stimulators you are taking   will make you bad,   your adrenal will burn out.  I know exactly how  it works.  I  will help you  100%

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Offline nomore2013

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17477 on: 03/01/2013 20:50:02 »
i took a histamine level test last week. i dont have the results yet, and also i dont know if it will show anything. i wasnt sick enough to do the test, and i dont know if the histamine in the blood is what counts, or the cells, or the brain. maybe someone else will have some luck with a histamine level test. i think it would be good to take it when you are most symptomatic. but i am guessing here.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17478 on: 03/01/2013 20:58:52 »
Histamine  is in the end  of events  which  happen in this cycle. It should not be looked  at.  It is the outcome of the  faulty   mechanism.  Inhibiting  histamine levels  will fail, until  you  get the proper inflammation response regulated.  To  downregulate  the  inflammation response  your  brain need to  reset....Do you know  how fast your brain  adjusts TSH for the  thyroid,  3 months even if you  change the hormones in blood. And in this  case you need to regulate 3 systems  at once.   The failure to cure POIS  even with  correct regimen is due  to  vicious cycle, where  3 months starts over and over. 

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17479 on: 03/01/2013 22:45:32 »
Gbolduev, I'm curious what you think the reason is for fenugreek+green/black tea being able to reduce all of my symptoms to a moderate degree. The combo has been reliably helping both my cognitive and physical symptoms for over a year now. Tea by itself does nothing for me, but it potentiates fenugreek by about 3x.

My list of POIS symptoms: burning eyes, back pain, extreme physical & mental exhaustion, joint pain, weaker skin(cut/bleed easier shaving), dry skin, bloating, fat/puffy face (feels like my face is falling off my skull sometimes and as if there's a film of plastic between my flesh and bone), itchy anus, pain during urination and bowel movements, general and social anxiety, weak blood circulation (limbs get cold fast and fall asleep easily), increased sensitivity to any pain or irritation including noise & temperature, decreased memory, decreased thought speed, and decreased ability to hold multiple thoughts in my mind simultaneously, thinning hair, premature ejaculation, unstable emotions, feels like not enough blood is getting to my head.

My orgasm frequency is once per day using maximum willpower. Symptoms set in immediately after ejaculation.

So why do you think fenugreek helps my POIS?
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17480 on: 04/01/2013 10:04:56 »
Fenugreek seeds have been found to contain protein, vitamin C, niacin, potassium, and diosgenin (which is a compound that has properties similar to estrogen). Other active constituents in fenugreek are alkaloids, lysine and L-tryptophan, as well as steroidal saponins (diosgenin, yamogenin, tigogenin, and neotigogenin).

Fenugreek  inhibits prostaglandin D2 , also increases copper since it has estrogenic properties.  It slows you down. That is why you feel better. 
VincentM,  why are you keeping  up with one orgasm  a day , if you are having problems with  the inflammation response.   You need to  do these tests get them back to me, and I will fix you up within 3 months.  All these separate remedies wont help you . PLus you have to obstain from sex for 3 months, that is how long it will take for your brain to reset 3 gland sysmems.

Sorry  I did not answer earlier,  I am in Cyprus , we have 8 hour difference.


Thanks, I hope this helps you .
Herman

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17481 on: 04/01/2013 10:17:01 »
VIncent M,  overactive  imflammation response and  incorrect work of your glands create problems  in your body ,   high  histamine, inflammed blood vessels, prostate , semen pathways. Also your  calcium  metabolism is impaired,  which  effects   the contractions of  blood vessels.   That is why you feel like blood does not go  into your brain.  Also  this could block  adrogenic hormones from your testicles. And thus you will have lower  testosterone levels.    You can fix this  within 3 months.   You have to  go on the regimen  and at the same time do some exercises  to get the  nutrients to your  pelvic  area,   there is  a blockage there.   
Contact me, and I will help you .  gbolduev@mail.ru
I cant ask you questions here,  they could be too much.

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Offline Starsky

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17482 on: 04/01/2013 10:55:19 »
Abstain from sex, but what about nocturnal emissions, can we still have them?

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17483 on: 04/01/2013 11:15:36 »
Histamine is a  part of the problem,  I was on  liver detox for half a year.  It is  not  the actual problem,  cause.  And  500 mg of methionine wont do anything at all...You might  get worse even.  to detox liver you need,  inositol  choline and  methionine. 500 mg  3 times a day ,  mostly to help you  with copper.  Send me your tests, I will definetely  help you,  trusts me  the stimulators you are taking   will make you bad,   your adrenal will burn out.  I know exactly how  it works.  I  will help you  100%

I agree that histamine is only part of the problem in that I believe POIS sufferers have an illness that is systemic and exists whether they have an orgasm or not BUT lots of people are sick and fatigued. Many people are not at their optimum health and the POIS sufferer is inclined to believe their biggest problems exist around an O.

So you've said a lot of things in a definitive manner which we're supposed to take on faith...
1) Histamine should not be looked at.
It's too early to say this. Are you saying that urticaria is caused by copper toxicity? There is evidence that faulty methylation will produce low BH4 which may increase mast cell instability. Whether this produces high histamine levels all the time or just makes the effects of an O worse I have no idea. There's more than histamine released when a mast cell degranulates. 

2) Copper is the primary reason for our adrenal fatigue.
Again, this lays the blame at copper toxicity but histamine will also increase cortisol output.  Are you saying we have one of ?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3290776/
I'm not saying copper toxicity is not a real phenomenon but, like candida, it's often used as a catch all for mysterious illnesses. There are many of the latter and medical science often dismisses them straight off by saying it's "all in the sufferer's head". I had some tests to determine if I had Wilson's and my MD says I don't. Many of the symptoms fit so I think it's possible that POIS sufferers definitely have elevated copper levels some time.

3) We need to detoxify our livers.
Why? What makes you think our livers are toxic?
I find it more plausible that my liver can't make adequate methionine or SAMe because of methylation mutations.
Our gut is every bit as likely to be "toxic" due to bacterial buildup.

4) the stimulators you are taking   will make you bad,   your adrenal will burn out.
What stimualtors? What are people taking to make their adrenals burn out?

5) Methionine may make someone worse. 
Without understanding whether someone has a methylation impairment, I don't see your justification for saying this.
Effectively, the b vitamin I'm taking contains inositol but I don't believe anyone needs extra methionine IF they can correct their methylation such that the body can recycle its methionine from homocysteine.
So far, I've seen 3 genetic tests of POIS sufferers and each one has many methylation problems.

I don't agree with everything Yasko says but I think this is a good summary of some published papers that show the connection between methylation outputs (i.e. methionine and methylated b vitamins) and precursors such as homocysteine with metal buildup & gut problems. http://vimeo.com/31853422
For example, there's a set of mutations that I have that decrease both methionine and decrease glutamine synthase, increase glutamate and increase calcium channel damage to neurons and/or vaso-constriction due to excessive glutamate. This is why I believe flunarazine is working for some people.
Racetams also appear to modulate glutamate receptor activity and may help with this calcium channel malfunction.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're suggesting, mostly. POIS seems to be a systemic problem. Too many sufferers say stuff like "I had bad POIS for a week after an O". This just doesn't make any sense in the context of an illness that only occurs after an orgasm.

What I do object to is that while we haven't banned discussion of POIS theories like the poiscenter forum (an odd decision tbh), we are still part of the Naked Scientists Forum and as such have forum rules which mean that
1) we are supposed to try and justify all statements that we make with a scientific explanation.
2) we are supposed to be very cautious in what we say, particularly about cures and offering to treat people.
There have been complaints made by NSF to our moderators in the past about this.

One of the reasons people left NSF for poiscenter was that it seemed a cure was being announced far too frequently here & as a single stream of posts it's not easy for people to pick & choose what they read. I'm not even sure we're all suffering from the same illness so we need to be cautious. That doesn't mean people should be banned for making suggestions, sharing ideas and arguing their corner. If we do that, there will be nowhere for POIS sufferers to go.

However, we can only go on our own personal experiences. Mine are that I tried a lot of things. The first thing that worked featured zinc and methionine. I read a lot about copper toxicity. I then realised that about 1g of methionine a day with b vitamins was providing a big benefit but that something about the b vitamins wasn't correct. I added ginkgo which contains quercetin and this made things even better. I then became interested in the idea of methylation and mast cell diseases. Got genetic testing and realised I had a whole bunch of methylation related problems and that others in my family had them too. I decided to correct these with some supplements based on information gleaned from reading papers about BH4, MTHFR etc. I now feel a lot better. POIS cognitive problems are mostly gone and I feel physically stronger. Initially methyl-folate and Methycobalamin made be feel worse but after about 1.5 weeks things really improved. I've been taking the same supplements for about a month now & so has my brother who it turns out has some of the symptoms of POIS. This was news to me but it came about when we discussed the genetic test.

I'm not trying to upset you but I believe that the reason supplemental methionine works for some pois sufferers is that they simply cannot recycle enough of their own as they cannot methylate homocysteine. In the long run, the fix for this is to kick start their methylation cycles rather than to add external methionine. On the other hand they may like me have one or more CBS up regulation which increase ammonia levels. This may be what leads to copper imbalance but it may also lead us to accumulate stuff like aluminium. (See Yasko's presentation) The same goes for B_Daniel who found similar methylation mutations, in particular a double MTRR mutation.

From your last post, we are effectively talking about the same things. Histamine, glutamate and calcium levels affecting blood vessel contraction/dilation during POIS but coming from a different starting place.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17484 on: 04/01/2013 11:27:22 »
I checked my 23andme results and I'm minus (not mutated) for ATP7B which is associated with Wilson's disease.   http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7626145?dopt=Abstract

However, there are other mutations associated with Wilson's and copper accumulation so all this suggests is that I don't have Wilson's per se.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17485 on: 04/01/2013 11:47:20 »
Kurtosis,   thanks for your reply.   I dont know where you see any dIifference  in what I was saying comparing to yours.
When I came to the forum, I said  that  this is а copper problem.  And notice  that I am not giving out any cure. I am asking people to give me tests, so I can create a program  for them.  There could be 4 problems.  methylation is one of them  and it is in the middle of the cycle.  I was taking  niacin , inositol , methionine and   choline   for my liver while I was  reseting the glands and fixing  calcium  metabolism.   This is a part of my regimen  for my case/ 1 out of 4. Obviously  you  were  doing  simular things with quecetin(  phytoestrogen , copper related) .  methionine.    But for some people it would be bad, since  their imbalance is different from yours.  The results could be the same, but the trigger is different. 
I am glad you found what works for you.  I see you  are quite aware.
I  am not trying to research anymore,  I  fixed 3 out of 4  possible  cases of POIS    , I am yet to  see the 4th type.

Best Regards, Herman



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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17486 on: 04/01/2013 11:57:23 »
Kurtosis,

I dont look at this problem as copper or histamine or any other metabolic byproduct problem / I look at it as a machine.   The main problem  is in connection of one gland to another.  Cellular energy  and  all other processes are effected by this.    But   you  are trying to concentrate   on not the initial problem  but the second third  cycle.  You fix the initial  problem  everything  will come to place.  Copper aliminum  cadmium , anything ,  lead will chelate  automatically, when your cell metabolism  goes into optimum.  You are trying to do the same thing  as  me, but from the middle of the cycle.   This is much harder .

Good luck , Herman.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17487 on: 04/01/2013 12:14:12 »
Kurtosis,

I dont look at this problem as copper or histamine or any other metabolic byproduct problem / I look at it as a machine.   The main problem  is in connection of one gland to another.  Cellular energy  and  all other processes are effected by this.    But   you  are trying to concentrate   on not the initial problem  but the second third  cycle.  You fix the initial  problem  everything  will come to place.  Copper aliminum  cadmium , anything ,  lead will chelate  automatically, when your cell metabolism  goes into optimum.  You are trying to do the same thing  as  me, but from the middle of the cycle.   This is much harder .

Good luck , Herman.

OK Herman, I guess that I'm trying to understand is what you believe is the meta-problem to methylation?
Mitochondrial energy production?
The only difference I'm suggesting is that I believe there is a class of POIS sufferer that I believe has developed POIS and other diseases similar to chronic fatigue because they have a methylation problem and this affects everything. We're both suggesting it's a systemic disease but the melange of symptoms people are presenting with are different or emphasised differently so there may be different kinds of POIS.

For instance, my eyesight is improving now. It's amazing but it's happening. I always wondered whether there was a connection between my eye muscle problems and POIS and that seems to be the case. As daniel pointed out, there are lots of things that can cause eye movement problems including calcium channel dysregulation, high levels of histamine and glutamine (which when combined with calcium channel dysregulation can cause seizures and tremors it seems.

I'm just interested in an exchange of ideas & as I said, this forum is very open to that...

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17488 on: 04/01/2013 12:16:55 »
Kurtosis, that is why I  dont  post  articles or studies.   Each  case is different, why would I post some broad information.     When the person gives me tests,  I come back with the program  and  provide all the  chain of thought and studies to support it.   And actually you guys  who are trying all these  regimens and  channel blockers,  and fenugreeks can be quite dangerous to some people, since  they can  read your post and  try this   having  different body chemistry.  Systematic problem is solved  individually,  after said that  the meaning of this forum disappears, unless you  collect a database of blood work or other tests


Good luck and thanks , Herman

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17489 on: 04/01/2013 12:25:55 »
Kurtosis,
 in my first posts on this forum, I posted  the cases  of POIS.   1)low thyroid, low adrenal, burnt out, low cortisol, 2)  high thyroid, high adrenal,  really low copper, infections, acute stress.   3)   high thyroid,  low adrenal  -beginning of stress,   still high cortisol. 4) Low thyroid, stressed  adrenal high to normal.

So yes,  what you describe  is one of  the cases.  Methylation is the problem   and I dont deny it.    HIgh and low I mean in  relation to each other and on cellular level.   Most people are in  number 3 /  but their  thryoid hormons are  normal, they dont know their problem which is there.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17490 on: 04/01/2013 12:28:01 »
My vision  improved  drastically  also. I could not tolerate light and  barely could see....Contact  Daniel,  I sent him some info.  And his problem is obvious.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17491 on: 04/01/2013 14:02:59 »
Kurtosis,   

The copper-containing enzymes, histaminase and ceruloplasmin, regulate histamine. Elevated copper increases the levels of these enzymes, promoting histamine breakdown. The low histamine levels, allow copper to continue to rise. Histamine is an essential protein metabolite (a product of metabolism) found in all body tissues. In the brain, it acts as a neurotransmitter. Low histamine is a marker for high copper.

Histamine levels are also related to the methylation cycle, a metabolic pathway that is essential for detoxification and for controlling free radical activity. Methyl and histamine compete with each other.

When histamine is high, it is a sign of under-methylation, and when histamine is low, there is over-methylation. With too much methyl, the body will overproduce dopamine, norepinephine and serotonin (the activating neurotransmitters), with too little methyl, the neurotransmitter levels are too low.



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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17492 on: 04/01/2013 14:11:17 »
so  nutritional imbalances and  stress  are the reasons  for  methylation problems.  That is why  I try to control  the stress of the glands  and  then feed the nutrients.  If you dont  do that, your metabolism  will run away even if you  fix methylation  per say.  Stress theory  comes first in my book and then  nutrients  and then by products/.  the person is stressed  and have imbalance in  glands collaboration,  then  how can you fix the 3d cycle.  It wont help/   For glands to switch off stress, it takes 3 months  since  brain will  adjust in this time only.

Best Regards,
Herman

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17493 on: 04/01/2013 14:19:57 »
So now, look at  the tests  I  asked people  to send me  and it will show you , that I am basically  able to see  from those  most of the functon  of   their glands and metabolism up to  the 4th cycle,  including methylation histamine  and even prostaglandins . 

I hope this  helps.
Herman

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17494 on: 04/01/2013 14:28:21 »
That is why I say 2 types of POIS  and 4 types of problems of the body...balance prone to infection (low histamine) balance prone to iflammation ( high histamine). That is why I said that for some people  methionine could be worse.

Regards,
Herman

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Offline Starsky

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17495 on: 04/01/2013 14:37:11 »
Herman, you have said to be cured you need to abstain from sexual activities, but what about nocturnal emissions which will occur during the abstinence.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17496 on: 04/01/2013 14:51:18 »
nocturnal  emissions are fine.  I suggest to do  kegels exercise 500 in the morning and 500 at night.  That would help it  while you are on  your supplements.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17497 on: 04/01/2013 15:12:50 »
So very important,  when  someone is feeding  the body nutrients but without a break on  nervous system and glands,  you  go from  case  number 3 , to case number 1, which is burn out...( taking  energy booster does that, stimulators,  ging seng, tribulus, testosterone  boosters.)....and    then some people  are complaining that  nutrients wont help them.  Since   in case number 1...you cant  use  B complex vitamins   high  vitamin C and  stuff like that, since you are done....you need to put your glands to sleep   so they dont react to   stress  and then you  can feed  the body nutrients.  Otherwise  nothing will work. 

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Offline gondal4

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17498 on: 04/01/2013 16:04:28 »
im in backward country like pakistan where all these advance tests are not availble/too expensive to afford.my thyroid and teststerone is normal...when my pois started ,digestion problems main diarrhea and eysight problem(couldnt see far) started as well and skin started to change like of really old person. and joint pain ..all in the same week..until i had in 2009  i had really long hepatatis A,i got very weak generally as i was not able to eat for 6 months.now when I get O,my abdomen becomes severly weak,cant travel for 3,4 days.abdomen have generally become veryyyyyy weak.please for go d sake suggest me something some test/

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17499 on: 04/01/2013 19:00:21 »
Well Gbolduev's protocol is completely useless to me anyway since it requires abstaining from sexual activity for 3 months which is impossible for me. I know there are others in the same position so for our type we have things like fenugreek and niacin which can make our lives a bit easier.

For me it's not about curing myself. It's about survival. If I don't find a way to relieve my symptoms then I can't get a job and I'll go homeless and die on the streets. I'll try every herb in existence if that's what it takes. Medical knowledge on this subject simply doesn't exist to the level we need it and so we are left with little else but trial and error.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.