Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #150 on: 19/11/2007 04:20:51 »
B_Jim, I hope you feel better by now.

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Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #151 on: 19/11/2007 11:45:39 »
Hi everyone, sorry Iíve not posted in a while. Welcome to all  who have joined the forum since my last post and thanks a lot for sharing. Chrisb I second Jim_Bís highlighting of your lethargy and derealisation -  itís the biggest problem for me too. Imre youíre definitely not alone in having problems at work because of this. Its affected my work big time as well. B-Jim I also hope youíre feeling better now.

For me I think exercise definitely has a benefit. It doesnít really help relieve symptoms but it can definitely help me purge the urge for a release and I recommend trying some exercise next time you really feel the need but canít afford the after effects. That said, Iím on day one of POIS just now which is my first in a while.

I see that a couple of you are married. I know its not ideal but I find a little comfort in the fact youíre able to maintain a relationship even with POIS. I started seeing a great girl recently and told her about POIS from the start. She said she was willing to try and work around it. Its not the easiest thing to do but if youíre sure youíre getting involved with someone and you find out itís a mutual thing then I definitely recommend being upfront about POIS from the beginning. Unfortunately now that relationship has ended all too quickly which is really hard just now, but I saw a glimmer of hope that things might just be possible, be positive if you find yourself in the same situation. Like me you may have put up some barriers to stop yourself getting hurt in these situations. At the end of the day I let down the barriers, perhaps too late and Iíve wound up hurting. But I still think its worth the risk if you find someone willing to try and understand POIS. For me, falling for a person like this is so so rare, I think you have to try. Believe thereís someone for you out there. If they find their way to you, I hope it works.

Best to everyone,
« Last Edit: 26/11/2007 12:10:47 by mellivora »

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Offline jplewin

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #152 on: 19/11/2007 15:26:54 »
Hi

I've done the same thing as mellivora... everytime i get involved seriously with some girl i just tell her. Some have not understood, others have felt pity for me, but most of the times i've had a good response. As mellivora says, i recommend being totally straight about our condition, because sooner or later it will reflect and harm the relationship.

I have no further news... nothing really interesting has happened.

Best to everyone...

JP

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #153 on: 21/11/2007 00:07:10 »
Hi everyone, nice to see some new people posting.  I Thought I had my profile set to emial me when messages were postedÖglad I came back to check.

Agjchs, thatís wonderful if DHEA worked to alleviate your POIS symptoms. I had once ordered DHEA but chickened out from experimenting with it due to the lack of information I could find. I finally threw it out with a couple dozen other supplements I had ordered to experiment with. Perhaps I will order it again, Iíll have to read up on it again.

Chris, at times I had noticed a similar thing, the times when I truly felt love for the woman is when I enjoyed it more and experienced better sexual performanceÖ. and the least POIS.  I wondered if it might be connected to prolactin levels which have been found to be much higher following intercourse vs masturbation.  http://www.reuniting.info/download/pdf/Brody-2006-prolactin-bp.pdf  Perhaps it generates sufficient prolactin to shut off the sexual circuitry.

Dave, good idea with hormone levels post sex, although years ago I had this checked and apparently everything was good. I donít know what the endocrinologist checked, but I got a thumbs up. I know you can order hormone testing kits online, perhaps it would provide some information.

Imre1, for me I can avoid wet dreams as long as I keep my mind completely  off sex, by avoiding anything that would make me think of it, including regular tv where people are making out. But I admit I do let the thoughts in eventually and bam, I wake at night as I did last night :o)

Jim, Iíll respond to the list soon

Hope youíre all doing well !

John

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #154 on: 25/11/2007 22:46:33 »
Agjchs, can you tell me how long you have been on 12.5mg DHEA?

John

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #155 on: 26/11/2007 02:03:26 »
POIS Day Zero

Hi John and everyone, thanks for keeping the ideas/thoughts flying!

Today, tired but not exhausted. Took Levitra 10mg + stimulants/caffeine.

Looking forward to more discussion about DHEA.
« Last Edit: 20/05/2012 05:17:50 by demografx »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #156 on: 26/11/2007 22:38:29 »
Here is some interesting info on DHEA being a possible co-regulator of sleep: http://www.anthropogeny.com/Sleep%20and%20SIDS.htm Considering my insomnia...I'm intrigued.

John

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #157 on: 30/11/2007 04:49:32 »
Thanks, John. Well, my last POIS symptoms (starting with Day Zero post right above John's) were pretty mild! I attribute that mostly to Levitra 10mg, but I also learned some very important "tricks" here at the POIS Forum, such as (1) to try to have a good, powerful, romantically-fueled vs. weak experience and (2) low frequency of sex. In my case it's been 3 weeks since. About right, it seems for me.

I owe a lot to this Forum. Even the Levitra might not have been noticed were it not for the focus on POIS and testing the effects of various chemicals and procedures that this Forum affords.

Thank you very much.

« Last Edit: 20/05/2012 05:19:22 by demografx »

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Offline neilep

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #158 on: 30/11/2007 19:25:52 »
Thanks, John. Well, my last POIS symptoms (starting with Day Zero post right above John's) were pretty mild! I attribute that mostly to Levitra 10mg, but I also learned some very important "tricks" here at the POIS Forum, such as (1) to try to have a good, powerful, romantically-fueled vs. weak experience and (2) to not have "too many" releases close together, which varies from person to person. In my case it's been 3 weeks since the last release. About right, it seems for me.

I owe a lot to this Forum. Even the Levitra might not have been noticed were it not for the focus on POIS and testing the effects of various chemicals and procedures that this Forum affords.

Thank you very much.




This is wonderful demografx. ....it's so refreshing to hear of the positive consequences this forum exudes....

We also thank YOU and the participants of this thread for their valuable contributions.
« Last Edit: 19/10/2008 03:15:53 by demografx »
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #159 on: 02/12/2007 14:27:10 »
I just wanted to remark that I have been getting some realy great benefits from a new technique inspired with what my sexologist said.

First of all it is needed to state that the problem realy is orgasm, not ejaculation. The reason this is so clear is because there are still some 20% of people with post orgasmic problems are female.

Also what men cannot live without is not actually orgasm, but ejaculation. If you are experiencing post orgasmic problems it is the direct result of orgasming too hard. So what is needed is a way to reduce orgasm while letting ejaculation proceed as normal.

The means of doing this is actually very simple. There is a natural time span in which orgasm is maximally. If you have premature ejaculation orgasm is very weak. If you hold on too long orgasm is again very weak.

It is this second phase of weak orgasm we would like to reliably reproduce. So getting into masturbation for an excessive amount of time, say 3-4 hours.

How on earth do you get masturbation for 3-4 hours?

This can only be done when stopping in between. So repeatedly going to the point of no return and then stopping to do something else. My sexologist called this sexual relaxation.

There are 3 reasons why this would work:
* the same reason why people do 10 minutes cardio training before doing power training (i.e. it acts as a warm-up phase)
* the natural decline of orgasmic feelings
* by stopping right before the point of no return, excessive amounts of pre-cum are released. Since you are not getting this during real ejaculation the time of ejaculation is kept down and orgasm will be much shorter.

If you are wondering wether this will not lead you to miss a feeling of orgasmic fullfilment. Try having more then one orgasm then. Each subsequent orgasm will be small, not strong enough to add to the origin of post orgasmic symptoms.

Also using this technique is very good for avoiding wet dreams. Since they will train the muscles in your lower abdomen area.

Almost all my post orgasmic symptoms have disappeared because of this technique (which I would like to call Sexual Relaxation Retraining Therapy).

Anyway do with it what you want.

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #160 on: 02/12/2007 14:31:10 »
Also if you want some medicin. Consider taking a seditive before engaging in sexual activity. In my country you can buy feeding supplements (sedixx) for people with ADHD to make them more relaxed.

With these kind of pills it should also be possible to keep your orgasm down.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #161 on: 02/12/2007 18:31:16 »


This is wonderful demografx. ....it's so refreshing to hear of the positive consequences this forum exudes....

We also thank YOU and the participants of this thread for their valuable contributions.

Neil, thank you for caring! POIS - for most sufferers - has been a very lonely existence before this Forum. Physicians, therapists, psychiatrists, etc. look at us like we're crazy, they have no idea what we're talking about! Or they think it's because we weren't breast-fed properly or somesuch psychological nonsense. I THANK YOU - AND MY FELLOW SUFFERERS - FOR BEING HERE!
« Last Edit: 19/10/2008 03:17:06 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #162 on: 02/12/2007 18:36:39 »
...some 20% of people with post orgasmic problems are female.

Your post is very interesting. Can you tell us where the above statistic was found? I would like to read more about it. Thanks!
« Last Edit: 02/12/2007 18:38:24 by demografx »

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #163 on: 03/12/2007 08:55:52 »
Actualy the figure is the well-known one for benign coital headache (including post coital headache).

Here is a case of a woman in Italy that had pretty much the same thing as me.

http://www.health24.com/medical/Condition_centres/777-792-1077-1714,18497.asp [nofollow]

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #164 on: 03/12/2007 09:16:35 »
"Waldinger has seen five Dutch men in as many years in his practice
complaining of flu-like symptoms including a sore throat, sweating, extreme
fatigue and eye irritation after sex."

This makes me believe that there realy is no such thing as POIS. The symptoms are too similar to post coÔtal headache/migraine. (Which by the way nobody knows what causes it.)

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #165 on: 03/12/2007 09:28:36 »
(1) to try to have a good, powerful, romantically-fueled vs. weak experience and (2) to not have "too many" releases close together, which varies from person to person.

There is a document on the web called "your brain on sex" (http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain [nofollow]) which pretty much explains the dynamics.

The interesting part is that lowering post orgasmic symptoms involves higher levels of sexual arousement (more dopamine). Which is the totaly opposite of what is usually said, by the medical society, about post orgasmic pain.

You can easily do this test by first masturbating to a picture of an old ugly woman. And then after some time again masturbating to a picture of a beautifull young girl.

In my experience the beautifull young girl causes significantly less pain.
« Last Edit: 03/12/2007 09:58:55 by imre1 »

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #166 on: 03/12/2007 09:32:13 »
Also notice that Waldinger works in a department that treats men with problems involving erectile disfunction.

This alone may be the reason it is stated that he does not know wether post orgasmic symptoms also appear in women.

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #167 on: 03/12/2007 09:46:25 »
Quote
When I have great, bedbreaking, screaming and thrashing sex with my wife and my heart rate goes like I'm running a marathon and it takes a while to get my breath back and my orgasm was so strong I thought my head would fall off, I always suffer a lot less with POIS. I do get a drop in energy and my stomach goes a little funny and all the things I've described, but it's always a lot lot worse if I'm sitting quietly at home and have a quick **** that probably does not even raise my heart rate at all. After that I often feel like I've had all my energy drained away and I often go and lie down and sleep.

I just noticed this was mentioned before.

It is pretty much what I have just been saying also. Higher levels of sexual arousement cause less symptoms. There may be something wrong with dopamine relase then. Maybe causing too high levels of prolactin. Which brings us back to the beginning. Starving yourself of prolactin in dairy products might have a very benificial result.

But then it is also possible that orgasm comes too quickly. And that you realy should be warmed up first.
« Last Edit: 03/12/2007 09:50:54 by imre1 »

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #168 on: 03/12/2007 10:03:35 »
If you think this last part is contrary to what I called Sexual Relaxation Retraining Therapy consider the fact that it is important in this technique to get high levels of arousement prior to each stop. Because this ensures high releases of pre-cum.

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #169 on: 03/12/2007 11:31:52 »
Maybe leading to the believe that the problem is realy related to what you could call "cold orgasms". Orgasming in a body that is not readily warmed up.

I.e. a condition very similar to muscle ache caused by not doing stretch excercises.

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #170 on: 03/12/2007 13:43:14 »
Also if POIS was a auto-imune desease you would be able to determine that with a PET-scan (or have I been watching too much House).

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #171 on: 04/12/2007 03:48:57 »
"Waldinger has seen five Dutch men in as many years in his practice
complaining of flu-like symptoms including a sore throat, sweating, extreme
fatigue and eye irritation after sex."

This makes me believe that there realy is no such thing as POIS. The symptoms are too similar to post coÔtal headache/migraine. (Which by the way nobody knows what causes it.)

imre1 - - do your symptoms last 3-5 days after sex? THAT (to me) plus extreme fatigue/exhaustion is the definition of POIS, of which there are many varieties on this Forum. But, again,  3 to 5 days of extreme exhaustion and perhaps some form of derealization, I think is the common thread here.

POIS differs from "post orgasmic fatigue" -- which lasts hours - not days, like POIS does.

Dr. Waldinger, as B_Jim pointed out, studied a very small sample. I think what Waldinger contributed most to all of us was DAYS (not hours) of symptoms, and flulike symptoms...which include fatigue/exhaustion.

I contend that anyone who comes to this Forum has POIS, because - although they may see differences in symptoms, the SIMILARITIES are more important.

So....we are all here, still in the process of defining POIS!
« Last Edit: 04/12/2007 03:55:50 by demografx »

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #172 on: 04/12/2007 17:03:50 »
No, mine is more of a very excruciating pain lasting days.

That said I do think that there are a number of nasty things people can get from orgasm, none of them fun.

Still, by studying the problem at a personal level you can identify what causes more/less symptoms.

I just wanted to state that orgasmic problems realy are caused by orgasm and that there are ways of being in control of your orgasms.

Further more by exchanging information ir is possible to find out what is likely to work for other people.

And the red line that seems to run through this is that higher levels of arousal cause less symptoms. Maybe it's the body's way of saying that sex realy is meant to be done with partners whom we are in love with.
« Last Edit: 04/12/2007 17:09:07 by imre1 »

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #173 on: 05/12/2007 11:10:36 »
After looking somewhat further I have found that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome has many of the symptoms of post orgasmic symptoms.

CDC 1994 criteria (aka "Fukuda"):

The fatigue must be accompanied by a minimum of 4 of the following eight symptoms:

1 Impairment of short-term memory and concentration
2 Sore throat
3 Tender lymph nodes
4 Muscle pain
5 Multi-joint pain
6 Headaches of a new type, pattern, or severity
7 Unrefreshing sleep or insomnia
8 Post-exertional malaise or fatigue lasting more than 24 hours after exertion.


NICE (UK) 2007 criteria

* fatigue that is new, persistent and/or recurrent, not explained by other conditions and has has resulted in a substantial reduction in activity level characterised by post-exertional malaise and/or fatigue (typically delayed, for example by at least 24 hours, with slow recovery over several days) and
* one or more of the following list of symptoms: difficulty with sleeping, muscle and/or joint pain at multiple sites without evidence of inflammation, headaches, painful lymph nodes that are not pathologically enlarged, sore throat, cognitive dysfunction, worsening of symptoms by physical or mental exertion, general malaise, dizziness and/or nausea and palpitations with no identifiable heart problem.


Maybe post orgasmic symptoms are a manifestation, or a special form, of CFS?
« Last Edit: 05/12/2007 11:22:52 by imre1 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #174 on: 06/12/2007 15:58:48 »
My psychiatrist thought my POIS sounded like CFS, I disagreed don't remember why) but with imre1's post (thank you) it does seem a possibility.

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Offline antman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #175 on: 11/12/2007 10:20:45 »
Hi I have suffered in relative silence with some of the symptons you have all been discussing for over 20 years, I have other symptons not yet mentioned, and others which are not as bad as some of you are suffering from, this is the first time on this forum, and  feel I definately suffer with some form of POIS,fatigue lasting upto 2 days rarely more, like I have been tranquilised especially pronounced mid afternoon, shakes very first thing in morning, unable to wake up etc, depressive bouts,and paranoia, I went to the doctor last year,she was very patient with me but gave me no answers and said she Knew of no one else with prolonged symptoms but that it was normal to feel fatigue. I'm mid thirties white northern european, Im interested  to know if this is a genetic trate or induced from other things, I always felt it was hormonaly induced, but wonder if it is a mineral defficiency, one of my symptoms is clicking hips, which I also get after giving blood. My symptoms are not as bad as they used to be, but my sexual appetite, is not so great. I'll stay posted . ant.

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Offline antman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #176 on: 12/12/2007 19:50:38 »
Hi B Jim, thanks for your response,I have never taken any form of antidepressant, or any medication for my problems, even  trips to the doctor are very rare, my use of the word paranoia is perhaps a little casual, but I developed very irrational fears during adolescence, the doctors at the time putting this down to anxiety, I had shingles when I was 2l culminating eventually into what can only be described as a nervous breakdown. I don't want to lose the thread of why I'm here, but I find that POIS seems to amplify any negative doubts or fears (never positive thoughts)so I have to be careful if I'm in stressful periods, much of my stress is usually irrational,leading to the depression.  I don't think POIS is responsible for it, but it drains my energy, takes away my fight. I don't see my self as ill anymore,although I don't think I can handle stress as well as a "normal" person. I think I have suffered POIS ever since I was 13, although I didn't attribute it to sexual activity at the time, so POIS came before the depression caused by other factors. I think!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #177 on: 13/12/2007 21:41:56 »
Hi antman, welcome to the POIS Forum. Great to have your input, sharing your experience.

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Offline antman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #178 on: 13/12/2007 22:57:21 »
High demografx I shall try to answer the questionaire over the weekend, Ive just composed a little essay based on the questionaire but when I posted it I'd timed out and everything was lost, so I'll start again over the weekend, I've had other symptoms beyond the questionaire, some of which I've grown out of so I'll compile what I can, maybe we can start correlating the info into a more structured form best wishes to all. antman

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Offline Gonzo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #179 on: 16/12/2007 06:47:57 »
Gentlemen,

This is the most awkward yet the most relieving of messages I have ever written. I suffer from many of the same symptoms with the exception to the muscle pains.

I wanted to write and encourage the members dedicated to this post as I know there are only a few who are experiencing this and searching for answers. I will be writing a more thorough survey about my case in particular with details and will be posting it soon.

Thank you for your hard work gentlemen. I have high hopes that we can come to conclusive information so that we can experience some sort of normalcy in spite of our condition. Carry on!

Gonzo

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Offline Porke

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #180 on: 16/12/2007 18:28:40 »
WoW!

Im not the only one going thru this!!!

I have been researching this on the internet for a few months and all i could come up with was a few snippets of info here and there. Most websites just try sell you some bullcrap product (which is just a multivitamin anyways)

Ok

My experiences has been similar. After sex (alone or with a girl) i do experience a hangover effect. There is not difference to real sex or by yourself (how would your body know anyways). Sometimes its almost like a delayed effect... in that i feel worse only a day or two later... and this can persist for several days.

I experience: Tiredness, Pale looking, Eyes burning, More Edgy, Dont think as clearly... I dont get any backaches or muscle spams as some people talk about.

Frequency is definitely a contributing factor. Once a week seems fine, but a few sessions back to back KILLS ME. It takes about 3-5 days for me to 'feel normal' again.

I have tried every supplement out there that could POSSIBLY improve things. Zinc for testosterone, and some testo boosters (which didnt do squat) (I dont believe it has anything to do with testosterone levels). Then ive done multi vitamins.. B vitamins... DHEA (For apparently low DHEA levels... but that made me feel even worse)..

Now, after finding some article it describes two main brain chemicals... One being dopamine and one being prolactin. After sexy time, dopamine drops and prolactin rockets. It is from one of these (dopamine being too low or prolactin being too high) that apparently causes all these symptoms. Somehow... suffers of 'POIS' as you guys call it struggle to bring these two hormones back into balance.

Now, as i understand it, if dopamine goes up, prolactin goes down... its like a see saw. Ive seen some people discussing anti depressents and stuff... not sure how those are going to work.. As far as i know.. these things prevent re uptake of certain chemicals... hence SSRI (Reuptake Inhibitor) so its not actually boosting anything.

Here are some supplements that have some promise according to what ive researched:

Tyrosine:
Tyrosine may be useful in the treatment of Alzheimerís Disease (Alzheimerís Disease patients frequently exhibit lowered levels of Dopamine and Norepinephrine; Tyrosine may help to restore normal levels of these Neurotransmitters).

Phenylalanine-L:
Phenylalanine is metabolized within the body to form Catecholamine Neurotransmitters (usually via Tyrosine):
Phenylalanine is a precursor for the endogenous production of Dopamine.

L-Theanine :
Theanine may increase Dopamine levels in the Brain.  references
Theanine may increase Gamma Aminobutyric Acid (GABA) levels in the Brain.  references

I have tried tyrosine myself.. and i noticed a SLIGHT improvement in things. Im thinking maybe a combination of all 3 could do the trick. I dont like using supplements tho, as im quite sensitive to them... i always feel weird on them, or have some reaction....

So there it is... im hoping someone could give some more useful info... or maybe try any of these above and report back

Ciao

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Offline Bizzy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #181 on: 18/12/2007 16:16:12 »
Hi fellow POIS sufferers

Would you all post on whether you were victims of childhood abuse or trauma. I want to explore the possibility that childhood trauma maybe resposible for an adverse reaction to orgasm in later life.

( I will post about my 25 years of POIS sometime later )

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #182 on: 18/12/2007 16:35:36 »
Well I'm pretty sure what causes my symptoms.

At the point of orgasm I get lines running in my head that feel like something is ripping up my brain. It would be like tearing of blood vessels in the head like with benign coital headache. But strangely those lines itself do not cause any pain (maybe a form of neurologically disorder in itself). 

Actually since I have been having these my entire live I always thought that they were just normal.

But when I pratice start/stops for a long time the same lines do not represent themselves any more. And I get no symptoms.

So it is as if my brain is being torn apart and I get temporal minor brain damage in the days following orgasm.

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Offline Gonzo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #183 on: 19/12/2007 09:01:16 »
So here goes my story...

I'm 27 years old and have suffered from POIS for at least 10 years. I grew up a lethargic kid, recluse and introverted.  Often I would find myself with no motivation and completely drained in the likeness of the day after a sleepless night. Some moments weren't so bad though. I found that when I did have the ability to focus and had some energy, I was a pretty sociable guy and not too dull upstairs. It never occurred to me that my struggles were pointing at a problem. I began masturbating when I was about 14 or so but don't remember much about those days. I just know it happened often.

It wasn't until recently when an unfortunate and painful experience opened my eyes. I had made some bad decisions and bad judgment concerning some serious issues in my life. I found myself in deep depression and experienced a despair so dark and bitter that I would not wish it on my greatest enemy. I firmly believe that the side effects of POIS led me to make some bad judgment call, which are often in my experience of the condition. Its difficult to think and to put your thoughts in the right order. The brain fog is perpetually parked in my head and it seems like it will never leave. To my relief though, its gone after 3 days.

It wasn't until then that I started realizing that I needed help. I took care of myself. I ate right and lost some weight. I started taking St. John Wort which has done a wonderful job allowing me to have life again. By the way, St. John's has been known to help remedy depression symptoms. For some of you struggling with depression and associated mood problems, I recommend it but with the precaution that it effects everyone differently. I'm very thankful to report that these measures have helped me tremendously. There was still something wrong though. Something that had been true for so long began to prod at my curiosity and I began questioning it. As long as I can remember, an orgasm for me meant 3 days of downtime. I reasoned that it was a natural process that the body took to recuperate from an orgasm. But then I wondered what exactly it was recuperating from when I masturbated? Like I said, I never thought much of it, I never questioned it, but as i was recovering from depression, I noticed that when I did orgasm the symptoms would come back adding to the recuperation time I was familiar with. Here is a list of them:

1. Moodswings
2. Lack of concentration
3. Lack of cognitive function
4. Inability to communicate properly
5. Depression
6. Loss of confidence
7. Dream-like consciousness/surrealism
8. Desensitized(Unsociable/careless)
9. Extremely fatigued/ extreme heaviness
10. Headaches
11. Difficulty with visual focusing
12. Restless leg syndrome

As I came across this website, I was completely shocked and relieved to see all of my symptoms tied to this sexual event. Finally! Someone else was experience the same problem. I had researched this sort of problem often in the past but with little success. This thread is helping me to understand that I have a biological problem that needs attention and I wonder how much doctors can do. I've been reading up a lot on the bodies natural ability to heal itself and wonder if perhaps this can be a means for healing. If this is just some sort of neurological imbalance, involving Dopamine and Prolactin as some have suggested, then I think theres a hope for a cure rather than just a medical bandage for most if not all of us. I understand that each one of us is different yet similar in that we are a few who have just begun to receive confirmation that indeed something is wrong and we are not the only ones.

I hope to be a part of the solution as well. I hope to study the thread carefully for leads and begin some of my own sleuth work in hopes of finding some relief. I am particularly interested in the neurological study of the chemical events that surround an orgasm and finding a natural way, perhaps, to remedy this. I want to enjoy the great gift of sex, but I often hold back so much because of its implications. My plan is to space my sexual encounters to twice a month. I don't have a girlfriend to keep satisfied so this task will hopefully be a bit easier.

I hope one day we can enjoy sex without having to worry about the repercussions. Imagine that. No fatigue, no mental fog, no restless leg, no back pains, just beautiful uninhibited pleasure.

I am blessed to be a part of this community. May the good work continue!

Sincerely grateful,

Gonzo

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #184 on: 19/12/2007 09:07:36 »
A supplement that might be benificial in treating post orgasmic symptoms is gingko biloba.

What it does is smooth out the blood flow to the brain. It is sold as a feeding supplement for minor brain difficulties. It is often sold as a memory aid for the over 40. And it also used to fight cataracts and glaucoma.

Actually it's workings seem to be similar to propranolol in that it causes lowered blood pressure. But unlike propranolol it does not make you physically dependent on a drug that might actually kill you. As bingko biloba is sold as simple feeding supplement it is very unlikely to do any harm.

If you are living somewhere in Europe there is a very big chance that you can just by that in the local drug store under some form or an other. In my country it is for example sold as memixx.

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Offline antman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #185 on: 19/12/2007 20:33:13 »
Hi everybody, just seen the new postings by bizzy,gonzo and porke, I am short for time but wanted to add a few comments tonight. Bizzy, I had a very good childhood, no abuse in my life, however you mentioned trauma,and on quick reflection remmembered that I had a minor operation at the age of thirteen, under a general anaesthetic,not sexually related!  However upon awaking, and being very sick I noticed that I had dandruff, it was like snow, I did not have it on entry to the hospital, but have suffered with it ever since, using a selenium based shampoo to keep it at bay now. I also had very bad acne, I know that both conditions are puberty related, however I believe to this day the dandruff was a result of the stress from the anaesthetic. For months after the operation I was very tearful, mildly depressed but again is this as a result of puberty? I remember at the time thinking the operation had affected my confidence .  Does acne indicate hormonal imbalances, it would be interesting to know if any or all of you were, or are sufferers.
Some of the symptoms not mentioned that I have had besides the fatigue are cramp, floaters in my eyes, I believe this to be dead nerve cells in the aqueous of the eye. Very pale white rings around my eyes like I have been skiing,dizziness, bad shakes when I wake up (the morning after) and a desperate need to sleep for at least 2 hours longer than if I've not had any sexual activity, with a need to sleep mid afternoon the next day sometimes 2. I'm interested to see any similarities between our history,genetic makeup and lifestyles, if any of you can relate to this I'd appreciate some comment.  Gonzo I read your story and symptoms and related to much of it.
keep the info coming. antman.

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Offline Bizzy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #186 on: 20/12/2007 15:06:06 »
Hi folks

This is in response to antmans post. I too have suffered from terrible dandruff (like snowflakes) ever since my teens. I also have thought that this maybe related to my depression. I too have developed pale white rings around the iris of my eyes. I have never been under general anaesthesia. So I think your anaesthesia experience may have been a trigger or aggravator rather than something that created the condition.
I was physically abused (not sexual) as a child all the way into my teens. I thought that this may have been responsible for my depression and POIS. But there is also the possibility that a genetic disposition is purely responsible. From your post (antman) because you had a good childhood it seems that our condition may have genetic roots only.
Your prolonged depression after anaesthesia may have been caused by the anaesthetic and indicative of how drugs affect us in an abnormal and prolonged manner. I find that all kinds of drugs have an unsual and prolonged affect on my mental state including tea and coffee. Over the years I have formed the opinion that this prolonged affect is caused by 'sticking receptors' within the hypothalamus. When one has an orgasm there are hormonal and neuro-chemical changes within the hypothalamus. For example prolactin goes up and dopamine goes down. These changes in a specific area of the brain are probably responsibe for the post orgasmic fatigue in normal men. In POIS the brain chemistry of the hypothalamus fails to recover as it should. The person continues to feel fatigued and eventually starts to suffer from severe depression.
This is a condition that is not even recognized or known by the medical community. Research needs to be done to acknowledge its existance and cause. A protein that helps maintain receptor function within the hypothalamus maybe responsible for this illness.
« Last Edit: 23/12/2007 02:12:25 by Bizzy »

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Offline neilep

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #187 on: 20/12/2007 19:19:40 »
Hi All,

It's wonderful to see you all posting here and I hope this forum serves to assist you......even if it's just as a sounding board !

Demografx has asked me to just point out something he has seen regarding Levitra.Unfortunately he can't post at the moment.

 It's a post he read elsewhere on the net and although the nature of the post can not be substantiated he felt it prudent to let you all know that it's possible that Levitra can cause strokes in people who do not need to take it.

I think the moot point here is to always ask the chemist/pharmacist or get advice from a medical practitioner before starting a treatment.



Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline Gonzo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #188 on: 23/12/2007 09:16:32 »
I just read a few articles, one of which includes the research conducted by Marnia Robinson, and found them very helpful and informative. It was recommended previously by someone on this thread and I would also entreat those who are trying to understand our condition to give it a read. You can find it here:

newbielink:http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain [nonactive]

Its easy to correlate the low dopamine levels to our particular symptoms, and if they are connected, then as the article suggests, it is perhaps something we may only be able to partially assuage. However, something which I have yet to find a possible explanation for is the dreaded 'foggy head syndrome' (impaired cognition) that I heatedly and savagely despise, much like demografx feels of POIS in its entirety(I feel your frustation!). I don't know whether to attribute this to the depression or to some other cause.

I've been without an "O" for 7 days now and the urge is really starting to get to me. Partially, I like how I feel. I'm confident, driven, and have a very exciting desire for the sexual "hunt". This is something that I often don't experience because I live through lows about 95% of my time. ITS FRUSTRATING! I have good mental clarity, although I've been struggling to focus more than other times and I'm suspect of ADD symptoms(but that's another can of worms), and my memory and other cognitive functions seem to be in order. I have a case of mild fatigue but the explanation for that is finals and the intensity of Christmas shopping this last week. I took half the day to rest and do nothing and tomorrow I should feel a big difference.

I should add a bit more information about myself that may be helpful. I suffer from PE but have an unbelievably short refractory period. I used to be able to go 3-4 times in a row with my ex. I could go back at it in about a minute of so. I did something similar last week but it was only twice through. On another note, I'm lactose intolerant and the posts regarding dairy intake are intriguing. I think cutting out dairy would be beneficial to me, but its hard to let go of cheese pizza and cafe con leche! I wonder if that may have something to do with my particular case, or anyones at that. I don't take any medication, never have. I suffered emotional trauma only once, which was the event that brought me to realize I had a problem. I basically had some sort of manic-depressive episode with some "mild" psychosis. It was the strangest and darkest moments of my life. I was under an enormous amount of emotional stress and had to make some very weighty decisions about my life at that time. I've never had any operations and rarely do I get sick. Growing up I was unusually sexually curious at an early age. I'm talking about 7-8 years old making out with the baby-sitter's daughter. Would you say that's normal? I also had two experiences where I was molested by my "peers". I know that's vague but I don't like talking about it and I don't see a connection. I think this is biological/genetic, but who am I to assert this?

I hope this can help us. Blessings.

Gonzo

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #189 on: 23/12/2007 21:21:28 »
I said I would do this, sorry it took so long.

1)- Number of days after:    

Typically a week, in two phases:

A:
The first phase is feeling very horrible in a way that I cannot describe, feels like a brain chemical is way out of whack. Social interaction is a nightmare during this, being socially impaired by having difficulty generating new thought. I learned how to ďfake itĒ by relying on memories for content, hoping that at best I would appear distant, in an attempt to conceal a cognitive impairment. It is difficult to say exactly when it begins after orgasm.

B:
After a few days I the horrible feeling would end but it would take 3 or 4 more days to feel like myself, during which I felt very burnt out.

2)- Overall symptoms
-Physical tiredness : did not affect my physical stamina, only mental, but you donít feel like being physical when you are mentally altered
-Mental tiredness 0 initially, then 4
-Lethargy/Derealisation (I cant wake up!) 4 ??
-Lack of concentration/Brain fog 5
-Sweating and heat feelings 0
-Cold feelings/cold hands/cold body 0
-Myalgias 0
-Anxiety 5
-Depression 0
-Agoraphobia/Social phobia 5
-Not motived 0
-Memory problems 5
-Difficult to speak/communication 5
-Insomnias/sleep problems : I have developed thisÖpresumably due to many years of high anxiety, silently dealing with the problem
-Headaches 0
-Stomach aches 0 but it affects my digestive system, having a laxative effect
-Restless/agitation 0
-Blurred vision 0  but I have periodically had double vision, the onset of which coincided with an incident of POIS.
-Buzzing ears 0
-Dizziness 0
-Muscle tremors0  but definitely have muscle twitches after sex, even now when the POIS is not affecting me the way it used to.
-Diarrhoea day0 ; intestines are stimulated, but not that much
-Hair problems 0
-Mouth problems  0
-Skin problems 0
-Eyes problems 5 see above
-Short breathing 0
-Premature Ejaculation 150 :o)
-Sexual pain after sex 0
-Erection problems 0
-Libido problems 0
Others Symptoms ? High blood pressure was definitely present at times, as in the later days of my problem I thought of checking this. I forget the numbers but it was definitely high and demonstrated it to my doctor, who was alarmed but didnít have any idea what could be the cause.


3) medical tests: many, so many.. but nothing was found. The only demonstrable effect was the high blood pressure mentioned above.

4) meds: I was on different types of  antidepressants, but nothing improved the POIS

5) I eat a good diet, better than I did when I suffered so much, but I wouldnít say it was a bad diet. As yíall know I stay a mile from milk, not knowing definitely if it is the culprit but not willing to do any experimenting.

Welcome to the new arrivals.

John21


« Last Edit: 30/12/2007 17:06:12 by John21 »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #190 on: 24/12/2007 10:21:37 »
Jim,
I was on various SSRIs. Paxil was the main one which I was on for years.  It did indeed help my PE but I continued to have it, only of less intensity. It didn't help the POIS so I discontinued it. I tried Paxil again to battle my insomnia, but I don't think it helped on that front either.

In general I find antidepressants rob me of myself somehow. Faith is my current drug of choice.

(Aside: I didn't know I shouldn't stop taking Paxil suddenly and had a severe reaction on withdrawl: "the zaps" and pulsatile tinnitus. Many years later I still have the tinnitus and occasionally get the zaps in my sleep)

John21

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Offline wowsawow

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #191 on: 25/12/2007 22:19:56 »
Wow - I'm in bed a feel like I have the flu. I'd come to accept that I was a fluke case where orgasm (especially a few times with a week) produced a sick run-down feeling.
I thought I'd give the Internet one more try - and found this forum.

On the one hand - I'm very happy. I'm not the only one.

On the other hand, what can be done?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #192 on: 29/12/2007 02:39:59 »
Jim, I don't think there's a "typical POIS state," except as defined by Dr Waldinger and he only studied less than a handful of cases.

I suggest that we are in the process of RE-DEFINING POIS, since we have more "subjects" here than did Dr Waldinger. And far more richer depth of personal history, characteristics and correlating symptoms.

I think we have successfully determined, simply, that there is a rare incidence in the population of longterm, adverse effects post-orgasm. I propose that we be as INCLUSIVE as possible of many different forms and types of "post orgasmic illness".

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Offline Bizzy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #193 on: 29/12/2007 06:58:21 »
I think this forum is showing that the POIS symptoms as most people have described here are of a typical kind. My post orgasmic symptoms are fatigue, difficulty concentrating, mood swings, depression, flu like symptoms, depersonlization, derealization and muscular weakness. Thats amazingly similar symptoms to others on this forum. I believe the more obscure symptoms people have described here may either not be linked or only weakly linked.
Gonzo has created an excellent list of POIS symptoms.
Theres someone on this forum that keeps on talking about post orgasmic genital pain and not POIS. He also keeps on posting about long masturbation sessions to combat this condition. I think he is on the wrong forum and needs to see a urologist.
« Last Edit: 29/12/2007 07:03:20 by Bizzy »

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Offline Bizzy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #194 on: 29/12/2007 07:15:29 »
Hi fellow POIS sufferers

Would you all post on whether you were victims of childhood abuse or trauma. I want to explore the possibility that childhood trauma maybe resposible for an adverse reaction to orgasm in later life.

( I have posted this before but got a poor response )

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #195 on: 29/12/2007 10:14:59 »
Bizzy,

I was not the victim of abuse or trauma. For many years it was my longstanding firm belief that what I have experienced ("POIS") was not of a physiological origin, I noticed no causal relationship with any emotional issues. But, there was a time I had a relationship with a woman who I felt very good about being with, like she was "the one". At the time that we had sex I had double vision and the next day it was gone suddenly and I had no POIS symptoms. This is the one piece of "evidence" that I have that POIS could partially be a consequence of sex outside of love, like skydiving without a parachute. But this is speculation on my part, and may be skewed by misreading this one experience in the light of my faith.

John
« Last Edit: 29/12/2007 10:50:54 by John21 »

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #196 on: 30/12/2007 17:11:33 »
Theres someone on this forum that keeps on talking about post orgasmic genital pain and not POIS. He also keeps on posting about long masturbation sessions to combat this condition.

I think you have some persons mixed up. Not at all uncommon for a thread of this length.

I am suffering from a post orgasmic migraine which is unlike any of the standard forms of benign coital headache.

I think it is related to post orgasmic fatigue because fatigue causes headaches.

Further more I also have:
- mental fog
- heavy transpiration
- heat feelings
- ...

And I still think that this is caused by orgasm and that if you lower the orgasmic feeling, the symptoms disapppear.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #197 on: 30/12/2007 23:29:15 »
Hi fellow POIS sufferers

Would you all post on whether you were victims of childhood abuse or trauma. I want to explore the possibility that childhood trauma maybe resposible for an adverse reaction to orgasm in later life.

( I have posted this before but got a poor response )

Hi Bizzy,

I definitely experienced childhood trauma: (1) attended 8 years of parochial school which utilized heavy corporal punishment, and I was maligned and singled out by teachers and students alike for being of a different faith from others and (2) parents survived the Holocaust - a well known trauma for children of survivors.

I hope this helps.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #198 on: 30/12/2007 23:38:22 »
DRY FINGERTIPS

Does anyone else experience extremely "dried up" (hard to describe) _fingertips_ during POIS period? Thank you.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #199 on: 31/12/2007 09:29:03 »
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!

Wishing you all the best for 2008(including reduced or eliminated POIS symptoms for all of us!)

Just having this forum available has already helped me.