Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1750 on: 28/10/2008 21:05:51 »
You're right, girlwind, there is a risk in disclosing to certain people. The one I discussed above was an old friend and we renewed our acquaintance recently.

Longwalkhome and Girlwind, in my posts about disclosing POIS, I wasn't really thinking clearly beyond my situation this morning with my friend. Because it was and is still very fresh in my mind. So thanks for a better answer to Longwalkhome by broadening the discussion, Girlwind.
 
« Last Edit: 28/10/2008 22:35:00 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1751 on: 28/10/2008 21:16:54 »
Wow, this cortisol peak does make sense. I am taking herbs to increase kidney yang (TCM; corresponds somehow with cortisol I was told), but in the 2 days following orgasm I don't need them physically, and then for a few days days after that I need much of it, my body just keeps asking. It's just like at first cortisol is in overdrive and then depleted.

Anyway I am preparing full conclusive blood tests, so I'll post them when it's done. I am trying to get before the event,  5 minutes after the event (AE), and 2 more sometime AE.

Wow, Rock, 3 tests. Sounds great. Looking forward to seeing those results!

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1752 on: 28/10/2008 22:19:11 »
I've created a quick survey geared towards the pituitary hormones that will very roughly measure hormone levels.  Maybe if all our results are the same we can conclude a certain trend of hormone production or reduction that occurs during POIS.  Refer to POIS symptoms where applicable.  I'll complete the test.  If you feel comfortable enough feel free to answer the questions.

General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? Below, 5'7

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? Low

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS? High

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? Low and low, 130lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? (Males are difficult to measure)

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? Yes

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): NA, wasn't trying

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? 5 days

Like I said, some of the answers are black/white and difficult to measure.  If you have suggestions to better measure certain hormones, let me know.  Thank you in advance.

Reference: http://www.hormone.org/pituitary_gland.cfm
« Last Edit: 28/10/2008 22:24:56 by Limejuice »

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Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1753 on: 29/10/2008 01:18:25 »
General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? 5'10

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? Low

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS? High

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? Low and 150lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? (Males are difficult to measure)

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? NA

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): NA

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? 3 days

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1754 on: 29/10/2008 06:01:04 »
General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? 5'11

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? Low at first but high around the 2nd day.

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS? High

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Low Your weight? Low and low, 260lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? (Males are difficult to measure)NA Male

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? No on Carbs. Don't drink

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): NA, wasn't trying

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? Initial symptons 2days -week
Secondary( muscle stiffness)ongoing[/quote]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1755 on: 29/10/2008 15:01:01 »
General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? Below, 5'7"

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? zero

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS? High

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? Low , 175lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? (Males are difficult to measure)

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? No

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): yes

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? 4 days


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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1756 on: 29/10/2008 16:36:33 »
General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? A little above, 5'7"

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? low

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS?  high

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? low, 122 lbs

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? becoming more irregular

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? avoid most carbs

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): no, chose not to

How long does your POIS symptoms last after release? 1-2 days, has been better lately


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1757 on: 29/10/2008 17:23:04 »

« Last Edit: 29/10/2008 17:30:49 by demografx »

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Offline msl

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1758 on: 29/10/2008 17:38:26 »
Hi people, I went along to my university health coordinator and she was very sympathetic and supportive with our cause =) She said she is going to contact some neurologists in oxford/at oxford (cant remember which:P) she had a special name for the institute, but i cant remember. She said hopefully because it is coming from her they will have the courtesy to reply shedding what knowledge they have. Also she suggested that I try and find a neurologist, because she definately thinks its something physiological rathern than psychological, and run tests to see what actual changes are in the brain. This would mean masturbating for the process of the test. Has anybody done anything like this before? Im will to give it a go i think, but admittadly we were both in agreement that finding a neurologist will be difficult, but she said it can and should be done. She wondered if it might be a form of epilepsy?

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Offline Chewbacca

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1759 on: 29/10/2008 17:52:31 »
So I've recently stopped taking fenugreek until I can determine how it effects estrogen and breast tissue development. I haven't grown tits just yet:) but I was reading about a guy who had an increase in breast size from taking fenugreek for fifteen weeks straight. This is a lot of fenugreek, and probably more than any of us would take, but I still want to know more about fenugreek before I continue taking more of it. I'm not worried of toxicity as it is a safe herb to take...just unwanted side effects.

Though...let me be clear.... I think it is an awesome product and does have huge potential for POIS. I tried a few different kinds such as solar ray and solgar. Solgar is by far superior. I believe the success some people have had and the lack there of for others is a result of varying potency caused by differences in the kind of brand people use. I noticed that it inceased my ability to relate to people, lessend social anxiety, and generally had a positive effect. I didn't get to try it out on my POIS just yet be causes I'm still recovering from the last bout.

I think the best way to apply fenugreek and minimize any unwanted developments(if indeed it is a concern) is to take it as needed for your POIS. Day of, and day after.

I want to (and I would invite others) to investigate 1) Cases studies of men taking fenugreek 2) Estrogenic effects of fenugreek 3)How oxytocin effects estrogen and breast development 4) Other herbal oxytocin synergists that alleviate POIS symptoms and don't develop breast tissue! What good does it do you to have your POIS cured if you grow boobs? Female members and viewers excluded of course.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1760 on: 29/10/2008 20:24:13 »
Hi people, I went along to my university health coordinator and she was very sympathetic and supportive with our cause =) She said she is going to contact some neurologists in oxford/at oxford (cant remember which:P) she had a special name for the institute, but i cant remember. She said hopefully because it is coming from her they will have the courtesy to reply shedding what knowledge they have. Also she suggested that I try and find a neurologist, because she definately thinks its something physiological rathern than psychological, and run tests to see what actual changes are in the brain. This would mean masturbating for the process of the test. Has anybody done anything like this before? Im will to give it a go i think, but admittadly we were both in agreement that finding a neurologist will be difficult, but she said it can and should be done. She wondered if it might be a form of epilepsy?

Rapidgaming, thank you for this. You opened another door!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1761 on: 29/10/2008 20:30:22 »
An old school buddy was one of the first scientists(1980) to study HIV-1 protease (for AIDS). I sent him an email, hoping to get his thoughts on how our forum can be aided by the scientific community.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1762 on: 29/10/2008 20:34:12 »
Thanks, Chewbacca, for continuing to help unravel the mystery of fenugreek!

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1763 on: 30/10/2008 02:05:15 »
I started taking Fenugreek(Nature's Answer)1200-1800mg daily.
Maca root extract(750mg daily)
Horney Goat Weed(1200 mg daily) 
yohimbe
60 mg DHEA
In addition to previously taking:
Restore(garden of Life) enzyme blend(bromeline Protease and Papain) 6 capsules /day
1200 mg  phenylanine
exotic and berry fruit juice blends.

Began on Saturday.  Noticed immediate results.  Neck and upper back muscles began to loosen in 3 days as much as it would take months with prescription strength drugs. Also had so little fatigue that I ended up on the internet through early morning hours.  Usually I doze off hours earlier.
Not sure of what combination causing it or all together. I may have to work backwards to find out.
I haven't tried the ultimate "test' yet. I am trying to feel as healthy as possible first.
I haven't experienced any side effects(THAT IS ME). 
Also , despite the large amont of aphrodisiacs There has not been any change in libido but I haven't been looking for any stimulus either. 
I have been diagnosed with CFS or Fibromyalgia in the past.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1764 on: 30/10/2008 02:26:35 »
...I have been diagnosed with CFS or Fibromyalgia in the past.

I guess I was wrong when I didn't think that there was any link between CFS and POIS. Several people here have been diagnosed with CFS!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1765 on: 30/10/2008 13:07:41 »
B_Jim, it is good that the flu-like symptoms are gone!

Is 30 hours the average time for POIS to end?

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1766 on: 30/10/2008 15:39:45 »
And if you are taking dhea, i will advise you slow it down because it will definately cause testcles shrinkage, I have had to stop taking it because of that.   and i only took about 25-50mg a week.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1767 on: 30/10/2008 17:28:14 »
No it was just to clarify the time when i was writing. Now the Pois has been reduces to less than 24 hours. It's a real improvement.  I have stopped fenugreek seed. I will maybe retry with fenugreek supplement later.

B_Jim, is most of your POIS-time reduction improvement from protein and cutting out sugar and carbs?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1768 on: 30/10/2008 17:31:54 »
Girlwind, thanks for the ZRT info again. Too much data flying around here, though, I can't recall what thyroid tests I should ask my GP to request from ZRT. Can you please say again? Many thanks.

My GP is an HMO, should I be prepared for resistance? If the GP has a lab that does thyroid testing should I just go with that?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1769 on: 30/10/2008 17:47:33 »
...I was also wondering is Relora still supported as help in reducting symptoms and has any body else tried it. 
I bought some and i will be posting it effects on me.

Please note the post about interaction effects with Relora Post#202205
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg202205

for other Relora posts:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=relora+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenakedscientists.com%2F

I look forward to seeing your future post!
« Last Edit: 30/10/2008 18:02:56 by demografx »

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1770 on: 30/10/2008 18:37:16 »
How do you explain your condition to your family and co-workers? For me it would be just too big an embarassment to tell them the truth ...

When I finaly told my parents it felled a lot like being gay. I especially remember thinking that this is what it must be like to be gay.

In the end we just sit around the table and i told them. They were very surprised but they did take it well. These days i don't hide it from anyone anymore.

I think you could find a lot of emotional help if you treat it like what gays call "coming out". There are a lot of stories about how people handle that.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1771 on: 30/10/2008 18:58:52 »
Girlwind, thanks for the ZRT info again. Too much data flying around here, though, I can't recall what thyroid tests I should ask my GP to request from ZRT. Can you please say again? Many thanks.

My GP is an HMO, should I be prepared for resistance? If the GP has a lab that does thyroid testing should I just go with that?

If I were you, I would NOT go through a GP. I would use an alternative health care practitioner like a chiropractor or
acupuncturist. Most doctors are TOTALLY CLUELESS about thyroid tests. (I don't have time to go into the details of this
yet again, so you can refer to past postings or read this article by Mercola.) http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/mercola.htm

Through ZRT, I did the entire Comprehensive Female Profile I. (Equivalent is the Comprehensive Male Profile I.)
"Assesses gonadal, adrenal, and thyroid hormones. Includes saliva: E2, T, DS, Diurnal 4x Cortisol; and blood spot:
PSA, TSH, fT3, fT4, TPO."
  (As you can see, this is NOT just thyroid. and includes other hormones too.)

If you want JUST THYROID, you should do Free T3, Free T4, TSH and TPO. BY EXACTLY  THOSE NAMES. There
are other more commonly used thyroid tests that are virtually USELESS. If your GP resists, then order the tests yourself
through My Med Lab.com  https://www.mymedlab.com/




« Last Edit: 30/10/2008 20:24:13 by girlwind »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1772 on: 30/10/2008 21:03:42 »
Girlwind, thank you, VERY helpful! Sorry I made you repeat things, I have *CRS.



*Can't Remember Sh**

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1773 on: 30/10/2008 21:50:08 »
According to this article, maybe you should also take an adrenal test with a thyroid test.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/endocrinology/a/adrenalfatigue_2.htm

It's incredible how the symptoms mentionned in this page are identical to pois.

Also in the second page of the article they have interesting suggestions, including the following :
-low-dose hydrocortisone
-avoid stimulants
-low sugar diet
-siberian ginseng
-astragalus
-fo-ti root
-triphala
-black cohosh
-chamomile
-lemon balm (melissa) (also it has an antiviral effect)


Since a few days of pois I'm taking lemon balm. Perhaps my error was to take this in the morning the first day and I started to sleep in the afternoon. Then I couldn't sleep at night.
Also my appetite was increased with this herb, I find this positive because it's a sign that digestion is improved . Melissa promotes assimilation of nutrients.
If taken only before going to bed, my sleep is 40% more refreshing and I was able to do more things than usual during the day.
Note that I'm far to be cured but I'll continue with this herb. Only one problem, I hope I'll be able to sleep without it when I'll stop.
« Last Edit: 30/10/2008 21:56:21 by martin88 »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1774 on: 30/10/2008 22:06:32 »
Chewbacca,
Quote
So I've recently stopped taking fenugreek until I can determine how it effects estrogen and breast tissue development. I haven't grown tits just yet:) but I was reading about a guy who had an increase in breast size from taking fenugreek for fifteen weeks straight. This is a lot of fenugreek, and probably more than any of us would take, but I still want to know more about fenugreek before I continue taking more of it. I'm not worried of toxicity as it is a safe herb to take...just unwanted side effects.

Do you have a link to the report on male breast size enlargement due to fenugreek? To me even the claims of enhancing female breast size with it sound like a sales gimmick to sell supplements. I understand it has a definite effect on lactating women but it strikes me as doubtful that it increases breast size in non-lactating women, and even more so for men. After all, it is a common ingredient in Indian recipes. I would think that if it actually worked it would be very well known and used by small breasted women everywhere, and silicon breast implants wouldn't have as much allure.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1775 on: 30/10/2008 23:42:57 »
According to this article, maybe you should also take an adrenal test with a thyroid test.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/endocrinology/a/adrenalfatigue_2.htm

It's incredible how the symptoms mentionned in this page are identical to pois.

Also in the second page of the article they have interesting suggestions, including the following :
-low-dose hydrocortisone
-avoid stimulants
-low sugar diet
-siberian ginseng
-astragalus
-fo-ti root
-triphala
-black cohosh
-chamomile
-lemon balm (melissa) (also it has an antiviral effect)


Yes! Cortisol levels and thyroid are very much inter-connected. (That's why I think it's a good idea to do the
entire Comprehensive Male (or Female) Profile I, if you are testing through ZRT.) When your adrenals burn out, the
thyroid has to pick up the slack. And when the thyroid becomes exhausted, then it's a double whammy of a crash.

That's a very good article with great natural remedies for the glands, including adaptogenic herbs. I would also add
schizandra and ashwaganda to the list. Ashwaganda is adaptogenic for the adrenals, and in addition
it helps the body with conversion of the T4 to T3 thyroid hormones. (I am taking it right now for just that reason.)

Black cohosh is primarily used for women who are going through menopause and need to balance their estrogen/
progesterone hormone levels, so I'm not sure why it made the list....?
« Last Edit: 30/10/2008 23:44:58 by girlwind »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1776 on: 31/10/2008 00:05:36 »
Girlwind, thank you, VERY helpful! Sorry I made you repeat things, I have *CRS.

*Can't Remember Sh**

Demografx: PLEASE READ MY POST TO MARTIN (above) re: cortisol and adrenals.
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 00:23:04 by girlwind »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1777 on: 31/10/2008 00:53:40 »
Demografx: PLEASE READ MY POST TO MARTIN (above) re: cortisol and adrenals.

Yes, girlwind, I was just about to point out to martin that adrenal testing - which he recommends - is part of the Comprehensives.

Can most chiropractics/accupuncturists help interpret the results? (What's low? what's high?)

Girlwind, I think you agreed before that it might be good to do testing "in-POIS" and "out-of-POIS". Boy, this is getting complicated (and costly?)
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 00:59:14 by demografx »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1778 on: 31/10/2008 01:18:46 »

Yes, girlwind, I was just about to point out to martin that adrenal testing - which he recommends - is part of the Comprehensives.

Can most chiropractics/accupuncturists help interpret the results? (What's low? what's high?)

Girlwind, I think you agreed before that it might be good to do testing "in-POIS" and "out-of-POIS". Boy, this is getting complicated (and costly?)

I think doing both would be ideal, but getting a baseline on a not-POIS day should be revealing in
and of itself. I was lucky to have a good interpreter of the test--a local naturopath who works at the
local health food store has used this lab for her patients for many years.

But for the most part anybody can see what is IN and OUT of range. To get a fine-tuning on the
results would require a little more research. I have had help with that from others with CFS. Some-
timees patients know more than doctors about these kind of things.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1779 on: 31/10/2008 01:34:52 »
...getting a baseline on a not-POIS day should be revealing in and of itself...
Great, that makes it easier to start out.

...I was lucky to have a good interpreter of the test--a local naturopath who works at the local health food store has used this lab for her patients for many years...
Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?

...But for the most part anybody can see what is IN and OUT of range...
Reassurance that we don't need to have a Ph.D to understand this!

...Some-times patients know more than doctors about these kind of things...
Sad but true.
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 01:43:46 by demografx »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1780 on: 31/10/2008 02:38:36 »

Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?


You do. A lancet comes with the test kit and you poke your finger and squeeze the blood
out onto designated circles on a paper blotter.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1781 on: 31/10/2008 02:44:51 »
You're right Girlwind, black cohosh has an estrogenic activity. Maybe not good for men. It has also an oxytocic property. Personally I don't think I'll try black cohosh but there are a lot of foods which contains estrogens, perhaps not the same amount I don't know. Here is a list : http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/hrt/hrt_food_and_estrogen.htm
If you read all the page there is also a list of estrogen inhibiting foods.


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1782 on: 31/10/2008 03:42:15 »

Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?


You do. A lancet comes with the test kit and you poke your finger and squeeze the blood
out onto designated circles on a paper blotter.

no way!!

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1783 on: 31/10/2008 04:05:57 »
Thank you for completing the informal pituitary test :)  I've compiled the results and totaled them below.  Some of the questions were poorly geared towards measuring hormone level but others seemed to generate consistant results.  Heres the data:

General Pituitary Test:

GH (Growth hormone) - height/size: Is your height above or below average? below, below, average, average, above

Prolactin - Libido: Do you have a high or low sex drive during heavy POIS symptoms? low, low, low, low, low

ACTH (Adrenocorticotropin) - Stress: Is your level of stress high or low during intense POIS?  high, high, high, high, high

TSH (Thyroid-stimulating hormone) - energy: Is your energy level high or low during POIS? Your weight? low low, low, low, low

LH (Luteinizing hormone) - If your female, is your period cycle regular? no conclusive results

ADH (Antidiuretic hormone) - carbs: do carbohydrates or alcohol impact your thought process during POIS? no conclusive results

FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) - Kids: Do you have kids (if you were trying): no conclusive results

As seen above, the last few questions generated inconclusive data and most likely the questions poorly measure their respective pituitary hormone.  However, other questions generated precise and informative trends.  For example, the sex drive, stress, and energy questions answered were the same 5 for 5.  These pituitary hormones were Prolactin, TSH, and ACTH.

As girlwind and demografx have done, it may be worth testing thyroid hormone as well as prolactin and acth.  Last week I visited a Endocrine  specialist because my TSH was out of range (high).  Had I discovered this thread before, I would have tested the other hormones in addition to the Thyroid tests the specialist did.

Other results - I've had several TSH tests done other the past year.  I've had a wide range of TSH levels differing from test to test.  My results have been 6.3, 4.1, 4.5, 5.3.  Does anyone know if this fluctuation is typical in 'healthy' thyroid function?  If I recall correctly the 6.3 result was taken right after my girlfriend spent the night...   I should receive the TSH results from the specialist within a couple days now.  She also did additional thyroid tests though I don't know what.  I've also had free t3 and free t4 test but the results were normal - just TSH was wacky.

I'll keep you posted.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1784 on: 31/10/2008 12:24:36 »
6',167 lbs, low libido, high stress, low energy , I can have kids, 4 days to 3 weeks of pois, thoughts are affected by carbs or alcohol.

About glycemia I have done a lot of tests at home and all were always in the normal range between 5 and 6 mmol/l, before or after meals. If someone has a protocol for a glucose tolerance test I can do it.
I think glycemia is not affected in my pois but it's always possible that the body has to make more efforts (eg. nutrients depletion) to regulate glycemia in pois.
Someone in my family has a tool for this(see the next link), it's not very expensive for what it does for diabetics, you find it in a pharmacy. You're using a new needle for every test. You feel absolutely nothing, no pain at all with this. (think about a mosquito, you need only a small drop of blood).
I think you can have it for free but you'll have to buy the needles and the paper tests separately (check the price before).
https://offers.bayerdiabetes.com/CouponReg.aspx?product=contour

PS
maybe you have to buy the lancing device separately also.
the needle (lancets) is mounted on a small spring, you press a button and it's done.Only a small part of the needle is going under the skin.
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 13:06:36 by martin88 »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1785 on: 31/10/2008 14:53:51 »
Last week I visited a Endocrine  specialist because my TSH was out of range (high).  Had I discovered this thread before, I would have tested the other hormones in addition to the Thyroid tests the specialist did.

Other results - I've had several TSH tests done other the past year.  I've had a wide range of TSH levels differing from test to test.  My results have been 6.3, 4.1, 4.5, 5.3.  Does anyone know if this fluctuation is typical in 'healthy' thyroid function?  If I recall correctly the 6.3 result was taken right after my girlfriend spent the night...   I should receive the TSH results from the specialist within a couple days now.  She also did additional thyroid tests though I don't know what.  I've also had free t3 and free t4 test but the results were normal - just TSH was wacky.


High TSH, above 3.0, with normal T3 and T4 can be indicative of a milder hypothyroidism. It means that your
pituitary is pumping out a higher than normal level of thyroid stimulating hormone. (.3-3.0 are the NEW NORMAL
ranges, though some thyroid experts say that it should not be above 2.0.)

As for the significant variation in results... that is strange and I have no idea why it would vary so much. You should
read up on this to be prepared for your visit with the Endocrinologist.
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 15:07:56 by girlwind »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1786 on: 31/10/2008 14:59:47 »

Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?


You do. A lancet comes with the test kit and you poke your finger and squeeze the blood
out onto designated circles on a paper blotter.

no way!!

Demografx: Get over it. It's a few drops of blood, not a major organ donation!

Like Martin says: "the needle (lancets) is mounted on a small spring, you press a button and it's done. Only a
small part of the needle is going under the skin."


Think of it as a small sacrifice, in the name of POIS research, to benefit all humankind.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1787 on: 31/10/2008 15:29:46 »

Question: who <gulp!> draws the blood?


You do. A lancet comes with the test kit and you poke your finger and squeeze the blood
out onto designated circles on a paper blotter.

no way!!

Demografx: Get over it. It's a few drops of blood, not a major organ donation!

Like Martin says: "the needle (lancets) is mounted on a small spring, you press a button and it's done. Only a
small part of the needle is going under the skin."


Think of it as a small sacrifice, in the name of POIS research, to benefit all humankind.

I'd still rather pay your airfare to come out and draw my <gasp!> blood!!!

Your chicken Moderator,
demografx

ps - human sacrifice went out with the printing of the Old Testament!
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 15:34:10 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1788 on: 31/10/2008 15:59:58 »
Demografx ! Maybe I can understand why you can't do this yourself for the first time(because the second time you'll know there is no pain !)  but if it's only that just give it to a member of your family to do it for you. Believe me, it's A LOT LESS painful than a conventional blood test when they take a full tube of blood. It's because the needle (from these lancets) is extremely thin and sharp.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1789 on: 31/10/2008 16:13:45 »
Demografx ! Maybe I can understand why you can't do this yourself for the first time(because the second time you'll know there is no pain !)  but if it's only that just give it to a member of your family to do it for you. Believe me, it's A LOT LESS painful than a conventional blood test when they take a full tube of blood. It's because the needle (from these lancets) is extremely thin and sharp.

OK, Martin, I'll fly you AND girlwind out here to hold my hand! [;D]


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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1790 on: 31/10/2008 17:00:45 »
Demografx ! Maybe I can understand why you can't do this yourself for the first time(because the second time you'll know there is no pain !)  but if it's only that just give it to a member of your family to do it for you. Believe me, it's A LOT LESS painful than a conventional blood test when they take a full tube of blood. It's because the needle (from these lancets) is extremely thin and sharp.

OK, Martin, I'll fly you AND girlwind out here to hold my hand! [;D]


You are too much! I think you should just go find some LEECHES to suck the blood out for you.
Then you can decapitate them and squeeze the blood out of their little black bodies for the test.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1791 on: 31/10/2008 17:04:57 »


European medicinal leech

You are too much! I think you should just go find some LEECHES to suck the blood out for you.
Then you can decapitate them and squeeze the blood out of their little black bodies for the test.

OK, girlwind!
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 17:08:01 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1792 on: 31/10/2008 17:15:49 »


BEST WISHES FOR A
HAPPY POIS-IMPROVED HALLOWEEN EVERYONE!!
« Last Edit: 31/10/2008 17:19:55 by demografx »

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1793 on: 31/10/2008 20:23:48 »


BEST WISHES FOR A
HAPPY POIS-IMPROVED HALLOWEEN EVERYONE!!


ty

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1794 on: 01/11/2008 00:38:16 »
Chewbacca,
Quote
So I've recently stopped taking fenugreek until I can determine how it effects estrogen and breast tissue development. I haven't grown tits just yet:) but I was reading about a guy who had an increase in breast size from taking fenugreek for fifteen weeks straight. This is a lot of fenugreek, and probably more than any of us would take, but I still want to know more about fenugreek before I continue taking more of it. I'm not worried of toxicity as it is a safe herb to take...just unwanted side effects.

Do you have a link to the report on male breast size enlargement due to fenugreek? To me even the claims of enhancing female breast size with it sound like a sales gimmick to sell supplements. I understand it has a definite effect on lactating women but it strikes me as doubtful that it increases breast size in non-lactating women, and even more so for men. After all, it is a common ingredient in Indian recipes. I would think that if it actually worked it would be very well known and used by small breasted women everywhere, and silicon breast implants wouldn't have as much allure.


If you google fenugreek men breasts, the first search refers to the 15 week thing:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_fenugreek_cause_breast_enhancement_in_men

This could be what Chewbacca was referring to. It's up to every individual to determine the risks and benefits of different POIS treatments for themselves. I would recommend checking with a doctor before doing anything - having said that, I wonder how many doctors have even heard of fenugreek, let alone have a sophisticated opinion on its effects on your hormonal balance.

Some anecdotal information about fenugreek and its effects on breast growth can be found here:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/search.php?searchid=3274877

I agree that if it really did increase breast size substantially this would be widely known, you would imagine that millions of women would be enthusiastically recommending fenugreek to one another!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1795 on: 01/11/2008 01:55:09 »
UPDATE ON SCIENTIST FRIEND
An old school buddy was one of the first scientists (1980) to study HIV-1 protease (for AIDS). I sent him an email, hoping to get his thoughts on how our forum can be aided by the scientific community.

He called me today and we chatted. He is willing to help us. His first reaction to POIS was the IL-6 protein, I'm googling it and invite anyone else to do the same. More info below.

His discussion and followup email revealed some amazing sources I never heard of...Government resources meant for people like us. Feel free to research along with me, starting with the sites below. He and I will chat again mid-week.

his email

Hi [demografx],

I’m sorry that we lost our connection on the phone.  I’ll try to call again in a few minutes. 

In the meantime, let me send you the links I mentioned.

Office of Rare Diseases at the National Institutes of Health:

http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/

Rare Disease Clinical Research Network:

http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/Wrapper.aspx?src=asp/resources/extr_res.asp

CRISP – a database of all NIH grants awarded; this might be a good way to find someone working on your condition:

http://crisp.cit.nih.gov/

National Organization for Rare Disorders:

http://www.rarediseases.org/

...check out their rare disorders database / index:

http://www.rarediseases.org/search/rdblist.html

http://www.rarediseases.org/search/rdbsearch.html

Finally, the “flu-like symptoms” that you mentioned are reminiscent of side effects that one sees with certain drugs and drug candidates (e.g., rifalazil for tuberculosis), that stimulate an “immunomodulator” protein called IL-6.  The link below is to a database of all scientific literature (since 1964), which you can search for your condition AND IL-6:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/gquery

I hope this helps.  Please send me the name, institution and publication for the investigator in the Netherlands that you mentioned, and I’ll try to figure out who else may be doing similar work.[I email-replied with Waldinger POIS study and link to our forum, girlwind's video, and Counterpoints' questionnaire - demografx]

All the best,
[name]
« Last Edit: 01/11/2008 02:07:35 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1796 on: 01/11/2008 01:59:08 »
VERY IMPORTANT:

Before taking fenugreek (or relora), PLEASE GET A CORTISOL BLOOD TEST (both AM and PM cortisol).  If you have already taken these drugs, I suggest to stop taking them temporarily, for a few days, and then GET TESTED.  (I would also highly recommend getting the test WHILE SYMPTOMATIC).

My pm cortisol level (while minimally symptomatic) was 420 nmol/L (ref: 50-300 nmol/L).   I also had prolactin and TSH tested at the same time (both were normal).

I am now going to get a urine test, and an AM test and a PM test on the same day. 

This article on the effects of high cortisol on cognition http://library.thinkquest.org/C0126536/main.php?currentchap=6&currentsect=deterio.htm
describes MANY of my pois symptoms, and may explain intolerance to glucose.

SO GET TESTED, AND TRY TO AVOID ALL MEDICATIONS THAT COULD INTERFERE WITH YOUR CORTISOL LEVELS BEFOREHAND (CONSULT PHYSICIAN).
« Last Edit: 01/11/2008 02:04:56 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1797 on: 01/11/2008 02:15:04 »
Counterpoints, thank you! As you know I've expressed concern about the tested/ingested items in the Forum. With your research on cortisol, you've taken this a step further than I did with my pharmacology-lawyer friend.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1798 on: 01/11/2008 03:12:23 »
Thanks Demografx.

If I understand things correctly, fenugreek and relora should help lower our cortisol levels, which is a good thing.  But taking them before a cortisol blood test would then give us inaccurate results.  I took a cortisol blood-test, in which my high cortisol levels were alarming (at least to me).

It suggests that POIS symptoms could be caused by very high cortisol levels.  So I suggest to everyone that they cut all cortisol affecting medications (whether they make levels high or low), and get tested -- just to see whether this could be causing your POIS.  Of course, consult a physician first (which you will likely need to do in order to get the tests ordered, anyways).

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #1799 on: 01/11/2008 04:04:27 »
IL-6 AND PROLACTIN?

I found the following reference from my research friend that shows IL-6 can over-stimulate prolactin (and create POIS?)

Does anyone see a connection with what we found out previously about prolactin? I can't tell.

Thanks!

from http://www.lef.org/dsnews/ds_letter_2004_jul.htm#2

Prolactin: Sex and Immune Activation
« Last Edit: 01/11/2008 04:10:08 by demografx »