Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17850 on: 03/03/2013 06:03:53 »
Hi, I made some reasearch on Copper Toxicity theory as explained by the Herman.  It means accumulation of excess copper in the tissues of the body such as liver, brain, other tissues.  This condition is due to some gene is called as Wilsons disease.  further there is a chance of accumulation by its own not having its gene. 

Diagnosis for this condition is 24 hours urine copper test.  However this test is not accurate.  the best test for this is Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis.   Has some one has done this test.  If yes what is the results

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17851 on: 03/03/2013 10:15:19 »
Update on my status:

I agreed the Herman Copper toxicity theory and about to start the vitamins and minerals that he is suggested and consulted my doctor.  My doctor also quite impressed by his theory and he suggested me to undergone, Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis.  He told that it is the most accurate test to determine imbalance in minerals in the body tissues.  I ordered this Test and gave my sample hair.  It will take around one month for the report in our area. 

I also advised each and every one to do this analysis before starting any vitamin & mineral supplements. 


Hi Nathan,
What country are you from?

From India. May I know the reason for asked.


It's just that some of the treatments that you mention are quite exotic. For instance gold is an Ayurvedic treatment, as you know.  They wouldn't be the norm in Ireland or the UK even if someone presented with a strange illness.
That is why I asked but I remember you told us you were from India before so apologies for asking again.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17852 on: 03/03/2013 10:43:36 »
By the way, here's a paper about flunarizine/sibelium. Not everyone suffers from weight gain and in some it may be as a result of normalised appetite.

http://sibelium.kydev.net/sibelium/WX/fulltext_WX3/1/Flunarizine,%20a%20Calcium%20Channel%20Blocker%20a%20New%20Prophylactic%20Drug%20in%20Migraine.pdf

I don't think that other POIS sufferers should necessarily write off this drug because they're afraid of huge weight gains :) My doctor suggested getting more exercise when trying ketotifen for instance as it's a known effect of this drug. You sometimes see comments on weightlifting forums about people using it to reduce inflammation while stimulating appetite.

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Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17853 on: 03/03/2013 13:39:14 »
Update on my status:

I agreed the Herman Copper toxicity theory and about to start the vitamins and minerals that he is suggested and consulted my doctor.  My doctor also quite impressed by his theory and he suggested me to undergone, Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis.  He told that it is the most accurate test to determine imbalance in minerals in the body tissues.  I ordered this Test and gave my sample hair.  It will take around one month for the report in our area. 

I also advised each and every one to do this analysis before starting any vitamin & mineral supplements. 


Hi Nathan,
What country are you from?

From India. May I know the reason for asked.


It's just that some of the treatments that you mention are quite exotic. For instance gold is an Ayurvedic treatment, as you know.  They wouldn't be the norm in Ireland or the UK even if someone presented with a strange illness.
That is why I asked but I remember you told us you were from India before so apologies for asking again.


You are right, I am finding many exotic treatment to cure my POIS and to give solution to all.  It has been my daily routine basis to find out POIS treatments, experiments and one day I am sure that I will succeed in it.  Another interesting fact to reduce POIS symtoms by way of Apple Cider Vinegar.  Really it is working from the past one month just to reduce the POIS symotms but not prevent. 

Step 1:  Take Apple Cider vinegar
Step 2: Put approximately 300 ml of water in a bowl and make it boiling
Step 3: for boiling water, insert 2 to 3 Tea spoon of Apple cider vinegar
Step 4: put a towel accross the face and take steam of this for 15 minutes and see the result. Approximately 50 to 70% cognitive symtoms will be disappeared.  Really its working.  It is very cheaper to try and there is no side effects.  Also post your results. 


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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17854 on: 03/03/2013 14:53:12 »
Nathan,   

Malic acid  or  aaple cider vinegar  is good,   I recommended it  to almost everyone  who I recieved the tests from.    It seems to increase TSH .  And it rotates the ATP pump.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17855 on: 03/03/2013 15:03:28 »
Nathan,

If you did the hair analysis , that is excellent.   I told  everyone to  get on Nutritional balancing program with ARL,
But  hair  analysis wont tell you the levels  of  metals, like copper or zinc or magnanese or  chromium or any other  metal but electrolytes( sodium , calcium , magnesium and pottasium)/  You just have to know how to read it properly/    Copper does not build up in hair at all.  And you have to read the  metabolism  from  hair, not the stupid levels, since  levels are not relevant at all.  SO if you  are doing this in  india, I think  it is a waste of  time, since I bet they wash  your hair, and  hair has pourous structure and should not be washed
I developed this system of  blood tests that I have been   asking for  which  so far matched the best hair analysis  results.  I still think hair analysis is the best test but only in certain labs  /Your copper imbalance is  a collaboration  of  many factors,   and you are trying to find  one solution/   According  to what I  saw you have low thyroid. 

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17856 on: 03/03/2013 18:53:19 »
Hi,
I'm new to this group and found it while googling around about problems I can't really find and answer and a solution to...
Maybe I'm writing things that have been discussed again and again here, but it's too long to read 6 years of posts and I hope finding some hints to go ahead based on current information.

I'm a 38 years old guy from Italy.

The specific problem is that after an orgasm I have the following symptoms aggravated for a couple of days: muscular/joints/back weakness and pains, light headed, lack of initiative, sense of void in the lower abdomen, sore throat (possibly allergy or increased probability to catch a virus), can hardly get out of bed the morning after and dragging myself the day after, feeling cold.

I say "aggravated" because most of this symptoms are already present to a smaller degree far from sexual activity, as I'm currently dealing with problems of adrenal fatigue and hormone thyroid resistance at tissues level (hypothiroidism). I also have a history of depression, for 2 years now under control with no use of antidepressants (Prozac), which I unfortunately have used for 11 years . Hypoadrenia/Hypothyoridism give me CFS/Fybromyalgia like symptoms. An orgasm just seems to make this much worse for at least a couple of days, the day after being the worst.

I am currently following a protocol with T3 thyroid hormone called CT3M (T3 cyrcadian method), pregnenolone, adaptogenic herbs, lots of supplements (vitamins, minerals, aminoes...).

Is anyone experiencing an aggravation of Adrenal Fatigue symptoms after sexual activity?

My sex hormones have always been OK (total/free testosterone, SHGB, estradiol, progesterone).
My prolactin was in range last labs.
Currently the main lab issue is low salivar DHEA, cortisol is almost normal but could ideally be a little higher.

I believe this is somehow related to a dopamine depletion, I take some DLPA for it (tryied L-Tyrosine in the past) but it doesn't make a big difference.
I'm going to try Mucuna Pruriens (L-DOPA) to see if that helps.

In Chinese Traditional Medicine post-sex fatigue is related to kidney weakness, so again adrenals.
I get some acupuncture sessions to work on kidneys points.

I try not to have sex more often than once a week and the symptoms occur nonetheless, clearly this is not normal for a 38 years old guy, and this has been happening for years now.

Essentially I must pay attention not to become exhausted in many ways to avoid crashes and infections (physical exercise, sauna, sleep), but sex is clearly one of the most depleting factors.

When I am low energy obviously sex drive is not on top of my thoughts. But as soon as I have some energy libido increases and creates a kind of tension that calls for being released. This currently might happen once a week, but it changes depending on the general condition. Unfortunately that also causes the side effects I described in the post and brins me again to ground zero for awhile.

I've also tried semen retention techniques but stopped them, both because they actually didn't help much (it seems that orgasm and not ejaculation aggravate symptoms), and because I felt they were a bit unnatural and possibly unhealthy.

I think a low after sex is normal and natural, but not when it is so much. It's likely that people with adrenal weakness suffer of this more than average.

I've come across here now searching for some fresh ideas, if someone in similar conditions has a similar situation and can share their experience and give any hints.

I know there are theories about hormonal imbalances and allergies related to POIS, I'd like to explore new possibilities to feel better and solve this annoying problem.

I don't know if my scenario falls into a form of POIS, whatever it is, but I feel I can find some ideas here beyond the labels.

Thanks for your attention.
Andrea

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Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17857 on: 03/03/2013 19:48:22 »
urano75/Andrea,

Welcome on board. I had some similar symptoms that point towards excessive histamine. Here are some reading that may be of some use to you.

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=5614;sa=showPosts [nofollow]

Good luck.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17858 on: 03/03/2013 21:50:17 »
urano75/Andrea,

Welcome on board. I had some similar symptoms that point towards excessive histamine. Here are some reading that may be of some use to you.

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=5614;sa=showPosts

Good luck.

Hi Romies,

thank you for your feedback and info.

I might well suffer from excessive histamine, having allergies started exactly since puberty (pollens, molds,...).
Also my depressive symptoms started around that age, as far as I can remember.
So fatigue, depression and allergy could be well related. Time, stress and infections could have just taxed weak adrenals until they crashed, and thyroid suffered of that. Insufficient cortisol leads to be overreactive and inflammatory. This is a likely connection. It's just difficult to say what started it all and how to break the circle now.

I didn't know that high histamine could be related to post-orgasm symptoms, I'll read the posts carefully but at a first glance I still have to understand this relationship. I see it's a complex matter. I see that much is told about methylation, this is not something I've explored very much. Is high histamine always a methylation problem?

I take lots of supplements, among these a good Thorne Basics B-complex, extra P5P and Niacin, Vit C, NAC, MSM, Betaine HCL, magnesium, zinc.... they all should affect methylation in some way and eventually neurotransmitters production (serotonine, dopamine, noradrenaline). I also take quercetine, nettle root extract and when needed antihistamines (fexofenadine) when allergy is too annoying. I've taken methionine, SAM-e and TMG in the past, but didn't make a difference with this specific problem.

Actually I would not know from where to start (or restart).

What symptoms (yours, mine) do you mean that point to excessive histamine?
How did you understand that excessive histamine was the main issue for you?
Have you tried or found any supplements or meds (like antihistamines) helping you with that, and specifically with POIS symptoms?
Are there other current theories besides histamine/methylation issues worth being considered and explored?

Thanks.
Andrea

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Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17859 on: 04/03/2013 01:14:46 »
Andrea,

I have two previous posts on my symptoms and current regimen (thanks to earlier efforts from Kurtosis):
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg405313#msg405313 [nofollow]

The cognitive effect seems to be caused by mostly histamine (+ suspected ammonia excess in blood)

I was previously on daily omeprazole and cetirizine for 6+ years, due to heart burn and nasal allergy (dust-mite) during sleep.
I don't need neither of these two medicine now, after taking Thorne methyl-guard (2 cap per day). I hypothesized my histamine level is being greatly reduced from this change.

Kurtosis had a post explaining what histamine can do to you
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=782.5;wap2 [nofollow]

Niacin reduces methylation and methylfolate/methyl-B12 increases methylation.

Your supplement regimen seems very complex...

I found my regimen by trial-and-error from Kurtosis' regime + my 23andme.com genetic testing result. More data is usually always better.

There are many theories at poiscenter.com . It will be helpful to read those post. I spent days combing through all the posts there from july2012 through jan 2013.

-R


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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17860 on: 04/03/2013 05:53:20 »
Hi urano75,

It does sound like you have POIS.  POIS is a strange thing, it can occur immediately with the onset of puberty (like for myself) or later in life ( like it seems for you).  I can tell immediately that you have been through a rough time.  Know that you are not alone in dealing with the symptoms of this and the depression it can often bring.  I have had a life-altering battle with it, but things changed a lot for me after finding this community.

I hope you can find some relief :)  I didn't quite catch, have you tried to induce a niacin flush before orgasm?  That's usually effective in reducing symptoms, and has helped me regain my sanity!

Welcome :)

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17861 on: 04/03/2013 09:22:55 »
Hi Romies,

have you ever assessed you adrenals status via a salivar test?
Low cortisol might be an issue, and you might eventually have inflammatory, allergic and (reactive) hypoglycemia if you have not enough cortisol around.
Maybe worth checking if your cortisol/DHEA/aldosterone are right.
Probably high histamine contributes to an inflammatory state that uses up cortisol. Allergies, as infections, can be hard on adrenals. Food allergies (gluten, casein) might be an issue as well.

It's also a good idea to check how is your thyroid, it can be stressed by weak adrenals.

Given my history (depression, allergies) I might think I'm undermethylating, is this assumption reasonable. SAM-e used to give me a temporary lift with depression when I was off SSRI, but clearly was not enough. Neither TMG or methionine. But I used them long time ago, maybe it would be different now.
However I see that much people benefit from using Niacin-NAD before O, which you say slows down methylation.
Niacin/NAD is already in my B-complex (together with p5p, methylfolate, methylcobalamine among the rest), but I used to take 500mg Niacin in addition to it awhile ago, on full stomach to avoid big flushes. I've never used Niacin on purpose before O to limit POIS symptoms, I could try that but, was wondering: is it a good idea to supplement Niacin-NAD if one suspects to be undermethylating (based on symptoms, it might be a wrong assumption of course)?

Right, my supplementation regimen is complex, and I've only written part of it. My history is complex as well, supplementation and hormonal support have helped with many things but not really much with POIS symptoms. The more you feel better on the average, the more you realize how you feel miserable after sex.

I'll read the posts carefully to get more ideas, it is a bit disorienting at the beginning but I'll catch up :-)

Thank you,
Andrea


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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17862 on: 04/03/2013 09:31:09 »
Hi Nightingale,

thank you :-)
Yes I think I have POIS symptoms. Not sure if we can consider POIS a sickness in itself, it might be an aspect of adrenals, thyroid, inflammatory, immune or methylation issues, as also CFS, fybromyalgia and depression probably are.... so many labels, and possibly few underlying causes and mechanisms.
Whatever it is, it's a big nuisance...
About niacin, see my previous post: never used it for this purpose, nor I knew it could help. But used it nonetheless as part of a supplementation program.
Does it work for you? In what sense does it help you?
How much do you take, and how long before sex?
Do you take Niacin or NAD?
Are you aware of methylation or histamine issues, as far as you could investigate?

Many thanks!
Andrea



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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17863 on: 04/03/2013 09:32:31 »
Andrea,
Can you make sure you don't have an out-of-control fungal infection? I'm not saying POIS is a yeast infection but I've had a very stubborn one that resisted many attempts to clear it up. The usual antifungals like Diflucan just didn't resolve the problem.
I  think some of the allergies of POIS result from a compromised immune system and I'd be surprised if some other sufferers don't have persistent fungal infections. Talk to your doctor about this.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17864 on: 04/03/2013 09:43:01 »
Hi Kurtosis,

I don't think I've fungal infections right now.
I frequently catch viral infections, sometimes bacteric ones, usually throat infections, especially after sexual activity I suspect. But I rarely have a fever. Low grade-chronic infections have probably been a problem for me for years, but now it's better than before.

I had candida and yeast infection 2 years ago when I crashed, but it is solved now.

Thanks,
Andrea

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17865 on: 04/03/2013 11:21:10 »
Welcome Andrea ; It's good to have you on board ; You seem to have a long history with POIS(or Orgasm related symtoms) and I'm sure we can share a lot from your experience and ours.

I don't want to bring something new and probably not relevant in here but I thought it could be interesting :

My MD(diagnosis specialist) came out with something new what is possibly related to my symtoms : he thinks about pheochromocytoma  ;

The idea is that during orgasm, stress are strong emotion, the adrenals over react because of a tumor ; it release norepinephrine and noradrenaline that cause fast heart beat and intermitent hypertension and potentialy drains out dopamine ; It explains fatigue and cognitive symtoms.It's also connected to diabete.

I bought myself a tension metter ; I don't know if i do hypertension.

Usually pheochromocytoma is more obvious than POIS symtoms ; it trigger kind of crisis that our quite noticable but I thought it could exist some kind of slow release form of the disease

Anybody has known Hypertension problem ? Anybody has its Adrenals checked ?

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Offline gabin

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17866 on: 04/03/2013 11:34:51 »
http://mindrenewal.us/page13.html [nofollow] here is the list of symptoms of High Acetylcholine.
Acetylcholine is a chemical that controls the process of muscle contraction and relaxation.

I wonder if we can be high of acetylcholine, that causing muscle spasms, contraction etc.

Here's a message from one of forum users regarding overdose of acetylcholine by drugs:

Quote
I get excess ACh when combining Alpha GPC and ALCAR on the same day, even with a low dosage of each. I experience tension in the tops of my shoulders, into the sides of my neck. A headache appears with larger or multiple doses.

Neck tension and headaches are mentioned by a number of people on mind & muscle, usually related to ALCAR in some way, so I don't think they're the less common side effects in our area of concern.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17867 on: 04/03/2013 14:13:23 »
Thanks Lapoisse.
I think that jumping to an adrenal tumor without checking more common adrenals dysfunctions is a big statement, what labs and diagnostics would support that so far?
I'm pretty confident that adrenals play a role into my POIS symptoms, in fact sex is for me a trigger that aggravates adrenal fatigue issues (low cortisol, low blood sugar, low blood pressure, low metabolism). I don't know if this can be generalized.
I'm here to learn if there can be other factors in play, related or not.

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Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17868 on: 04/03/2013 14:25:12 »
Also google Post Coital Tristessee.  this name given in UK for POIS.  I think there are many sufferrers of POIS and they are not able to come into a particular platform to know what is POIS.  One of such names I found in google are Post Coital Headache, Post Coitial Tristessee, Post Coital Fatigue, Post coital tiredness and many names are there in google for POIS.   

Out of many sufferrers I hope atleast one of the sufferrer is finding the right treatment and cures his POIS.  We just require to find that person if any. 

From today, daily 2 hours I will spend time POIS study in the internet and hopefully we will get grand success in this year of 2013. 


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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17869 on: 04/03/2013 15:06:49 »
Thanks Lapoisse.
I think that jumping to an adrenal tumor without checking more common adrenals dysfunctions is a big statement, what labs and diagnostics would support that so far?
I'm pretty confident that adrenals play a role into my POIS symptoms, in fact sex is for me a trigger that aggravates adrenal fatigue issues (low cortisol, low blood sugar, low blood pressure, low metabolism). I don't know if this can be generalized.
I'm here to learn if there can be other factors in play, related or not.

Andrea, I'm sorry ; the message wasn't specificaly adressed to you ; actually it was just a "welcome message" to you and an other message about a potential lead to explore.

As far as I understand, there is no specific way to evaluate "adrenal fatigue" ; for mainstrem medecine, adrenals or either insuficient  or there is nothing ;

What is interesting in my opinion is the effect of overload of noradrenaline and adrenaline(caused by stress or something else) on dopamine depletion ; symtoms of POIS realy match with dopamine depletion ; I found an interesting paper on this :

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=177775 [nofollow]

By the way, I also took SSRI for 2 years ; I've been of for 6 month now and from POIS point of view, it was the worse idea I had even if i got really nice nice relief for about 5 month.


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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17870 on: 04/03/2013 15:52:47 »
Hi Lapoisse,
yes I understood the tumor hypotesis was not directed to me ;-)

There is a reliable enough lab test to check adrenal function, and it's 24h salivar test for cortisol/DHEA.

See e.g.:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

Moreover a blood panel covering steroid hormones can provide some useful insights.

I know that for mainstream medicine adrenal insufficiency = Addison's

I agree that my POIS symptoms match low dopamine and low cortisol symptoms. It's normal to feel a bit "depleted" after an orgasm I guess for awhile, and that should go along with a prolactin peak and a catecolammines fall. It's *not* normal to feel like that for days and with such intensity.

SSRI helped me survive for a long time before I found other, better ways, so I don't blame them. I just think they are not a good long term solution, cover some underlying problems and end up intoxicating the body, so the sooner one finds an alternative the better. It took 11 years for me. I can't even rule out they made my post-sex symptoms worse after some many years, even though they didn't affect my libido.

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17871 on: 05/03/2013 16:31:06 »
Hi Andrea,

Hi did the tests(blood pressure and pupil) ; both are positive for me but not that much.

Also, i just talk to an endocrino MD and he thinks that if my adrenals was burnout, I'd have low cortisol wich is not the case ; However I'll have my catecholamines (blood and urine) and cortisol at 8am and 6pm tested ; I'll do it tomorow at day 2 after O, usually my worst day.
I keep you informed ;

Prolactin is also something that come up pretty often here ; prolactin levels are connected to orgasm and probably has an antagonist relation with dopamine : mine is always over the range but not that much and no pituary adenom on sight.

Have you tried NSAIDS ? ketoprofen combined with a bit of propanolol is the only thing that help me

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17872 on: 05/03/2013 17:01:26 »
Hi Andrea,

Hi did the tests(blood pressure and pupil) ; both are positive for me but not that much.

Also, i just talk to an endocrino MD and he thinks that if my adrenals was burnout, I'd have low cortisol wich is not the case ; However I'll have my catecholamines (blood and urine) and cortisol at 8am and 6pm tested ; I'll do it tomorow at day 2 after O, usually my worst day.
I keep you informed ;

Prolactin is also something that come up pretty often here ; prolactin levels are connected to orgasm and probably has an antagonist relation with dopamine : mine is always over the range but not that much and no pituary adenom on sight.

Have you tried NSAIDS ? ketoprofen combined with a bit of propanolol is the only thing that help me

Blood cortisol lab is usually not very useful...  have you taken a saliva test (AM, noon, PM, evening)? It's not enough to have values in range, it must be top range in the morning and bottom range in the evening.
Also DHEA (salivar and blood) and aldosterone should be looked at.

Prolactin might play a role yes, but mine was 11 and I think it's not considered a problem when <20. Also, it might have unexpected values in case of other hormonal imbalances, so I heard.

No NSAIDS for me thanks. I'm kind of natural-oriented guy in health, I use antinflammatory stuff like fish/krill oil, curcumin, but that's it. It's even too much that I take anti-histamines when allergy is too strong... :-)

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Offline thereishope

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17873 on: 07/03/2013 07:24:06 »
Hello guys, is there any way pois has something to do with the way ejaculation is accomplished? Does watching porn have anything to do with this? and if so is there someone on this forum that has pois but doesnt absolutely strictly ever watch porn?

Thank you for your time,

Chris

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17874 on: 07/03/2013 12:46:58 »
Hello guys, is there any way pois has something to do with the way ejaculation is accomplished? Does watching porn have anything to do with this? and if so is there someone on this forum that has pois but doesnt absolutely strictly ever watch porn?

Thank you for your time,

Chris

Hi Chris,
it doesn't make a difference for me how I reach an orgasm, it's a depleting experience anyway. Obviously having sex with someone you love is a much more rewarding experience in many senses than masturbating in front of a porn, but I've come to see that I eventually have the same symtpoms afterwards.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17875 on: 07/03/2013 13:08:16 »
Hi urano75,

It does sound like you have POIS.  POIS is a strange thing, it can occur immediately with the onset of puberty (like for myself) or later in life ( like it seems for you).  I can tell immediately that you have been through a rough time.  Know that you are not alone in dealing with the symptoms of this and the depression it can often bring.  I have had a life-altering battle with it, but things changed a lot for me after finding this community.

I hope you can find some relief :)  I didn't quite catch, have you tried to induce a niacin flush before orgasm?  That's usually effective in reducing symptoms, and has helped me regain my sanity!

Welcome :)

So, yesterday evening I had a try with niacin before orgasm. I took 500mg of niacin 3 hours after dinner, which I understand are quite a bit, and didn't have a flush in the next hour. I didn't have a flush for the rest of the night actually. This was somewhat ironic, as I normally have flushes each time I take niacin on a full stomach, even though unpredictably few hours later. I did my thing anyway to see what happened even with no flush. Maybe symptoms are a bit less than average today, but I still feel muscular pains, weakness and some lack of motivation. I can't say yet if it really helps, this requires further experimentation.

I've read a lot on poiscenter about niacin and niacinamide but I'm new to this subject and am probably missing something, so I have some questions for the group:

- Has the mechanism of why niacin works for many with POIS symptoms been understood or at least guessed? What's the percentage of folks here which benefit from niacin, and what is likely to be their weak link?
- Specifically in my case, given my history of hypoadrenia, allergies and depression, it is likely I am high histamine, undermethylating and low dopamine/serotonin: is niacin supposed to help in this situation, or would it make it worse?
- Is it necessary to wait for a flush before O to make it effective, or is it only a signal to be sure that niacin has saturated? If the flush occurs in an unpredictable amount of time, or it never occurs as it happened yesterday, it might hard to manage, how to make it happen approximately at a wanted time?
- Does regularly using a full complex of B vitamins as I do interfere with the effectiveness of niacin for preventing POIS symptoms?

Many thanks!
Andrea

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17876 on: 07/03/2013 15:42:51 »
urano75, in my case I need to experience the flush before an "o" in order to get POIS relief. If I'm using freshly bought niacin less than a month old I can get a flush with 200mg if I haven't eaten for more than 10 hours. If the niacin is several months old I need 500mg or 600mg to get a flush after a 10 hour fast. I only experience symptom relief after a full night sleep and the relief comes in the form of increased endurance and reduced joint pain during exercise. I haven't noticed any benefit outside of increasing my ability to exercise, but I've only tried it maybe 7 times total. I wasn't taking any other vitamins at the time so I don't know if that would affect it.

500mg is a lot to try the first time. Some of our members have had intensely unpleasant flushes at that level. If you try it again with a fast I think you shouldn't go over 100 or 200mg just to be safe. Also taking niacin first thing in the morning before breakfast increases the chance of flush even greater than a 10 hr fast while awake for me at least.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17877 on: 07/03/2013 16:11:35 »
urano75, in my case I need to experience the flush before an "o" in order to get POIS relief. If I'm using freshly bought niacin less than a month old I can get a flush with 200mg if I haven't eaten for more than 10 hours. If the niacin is several months old I need 500mg or 600mg to get a flush after a 10 hour fast. I only experience symptom relief after a full night sleep and the relief comes in the form of increased endurance and reduced joint pain during exercise. I haven't noticed any benefit outside of increasing my ability to exercise, but I've only tried it maybe 7 times total. I wasn't taking any other vitamins at the time so I don't know if that would affect it.

500mg is a lot to try the first time. Some of our members have had intensely unpleasant flushes at that level. If you try it again with a fast I think you shouldn't go over 100 or 200mg just to be safe. Also taking niacin first thing in the morning before breakfast increases the chance of flush even greater than a 10 hr fast while awake for me at least.

It's possible then that my niacin is not so fresh, I used to take 500mg of it months before (not for this particular reason) and had manageable flushes. I'll try and experiment with a new batch of smaller capsules. 10 hours fast is pretty much... Anyway I understand the main point is getting a flush, whatever the required dose.
I have some niacinamide (about 250mg daily) in my B-complex, that's possibly why my body is used to it and I require a larger dose of niacin to get a flush...
I also wonder if other methylating factors I'm taking might have an influence on the required dose. I take many things for many different reasons.
I understand niacin helps you with some physical symptoms, are there things it doesn't help you with?
Do you use other remedies for different issues?

Thanks!
Andrea

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17878 on: 07/03/2013 16:19:59 »
Vincent M, nevermind, I've just found a link to your treatment summary in your profile...
I'll read it thouroughly, unless you have anything to add here.
Sorry for asking already available info, I'm new and discover new pieces of info at any time.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17879 on: 08/03/2013 13:23:29 »
It's quite alright. Niacin doesn't seem to help my cognitive symptoms at all, but the others who have benefited from it have reported it reduces cognitive impairment due to POIS.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17880 on: 08/03/2013 17:52:28 »
While I'm going to experiment with Niacin following the rules you guys kindly suggested, I want to share with you my current supplementation/meds program.
It's a long one, not only oriented to adrenals/thyroid support but it covers all the basics, plus things I take for specific reasons and added up in time, plus things I've taken for awhile but I don't need anymore.
Just want to point out that I don't take all this stuff independently, but work with few health practitioners and MD's to decide what I need.

I post it for some reasons:
1) I want to share the many things that helped (or in some cases didn't help) in the last couple of years to raise from a state of depression, low-grade chronic infections, adrenal exhaustion and underactive thyroid (just in case anyone is coping with any of these conditions)
2) I want to check with you if there are things you don't see in the list and I should definitively try to help with outstanding POIS symptoms
3) I want to ask if you think that any of this stuff could interfere with niacin's effectiveness for POIS relief, or can in some way hinder a potential solution of POIS symptoms

- Thyroid Hormones (T3):

35mcgT3@4AM+20mcgT3@11AM+20mcgT3@6PM (total 75mcg per day)

- Adrenal support:

Pregnenolone 50mg
Ashwagandha/Phytisone complex (adaptogenics herbs) complex 3*2cps
Adrenergize (adrenal cortex extract) 2cps

- Aminos:

L-Tyrosine 2*3g (AM, noon)
5-HTP 100mg
MSM 3*3000mg
N-Acetyl-Cysteine 1000mg
L-Lysine   2*1g
L-Methionine 500mg

- Minerals:

Magnesium (citrate) 1000mg
Zinc (gluconate) 2*50mg
Copper (gluconate) 5mg
Chromium (picolinate) 500mcg
Selenium 200mcg
Humic & Fulvic Acids (liquid organic minerals)

- Vitamins:

B Complex - 2 cps, each one containing:

   Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 110 mg.
   Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 10 mg.
   Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as Niacin) 140 mg.
   Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg.
   Folate (as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt) 400 mcg.
   Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 400 mcg.
   Biotin 400 mcg.
   Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 110 mg.
   Choline Citrate 80 mg.


Vit. B5 3*3000mg
P-5-P 3*50mg

Vit. A 10000UI
Vit. C 3*1000mg + Citrus bioflavonoids
Vit. D3 5000UI
Vit. E (mixed tocopherols) 400mg
Vit. K2 (MK-7) 2*100mcg

- Others:

Ubiquinol 2*50mg
Lipoic Acid 2*300mg
Fish Oil 2*1000mg
Krill Oil 2*1000mg
Curcumin+Bioperine 3*1000mg
Stinging Nettles root extract 2*500mg
Quercetine 2*1g

Probiotics (as needed)
Digestive enzymes (every meal)

Zeolite (for chelating heavy metals)

- Things I'm going to add soon:

Niacin (when needed)
TMG
Mucuna Pruriens
Fenugreek+Garlic?

- Things I used to take in the last couple of years and not using now or dropped for several different reasons:

DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine)
Isocort
7-Keto-DHEA
Seriphos (Phosphatidylserine)
Deer Antler Velvet
Melatonin
AKG-Arginine
Iodine (liquid)
Coral Calcium
Megafood Bloobuilder (iron+C+B12+folate+beetroot)
Kelp tablets
Cat's claw
Berberine
Bentonite clay
...

- Meds used when necessary:
fexofenadine (the least effective dose for calming seasonal allergy)

- Meds I used in the past (and hopefully won't need anymore):
fluoxetine (for 11 years with few breaks, up to a couple of years ago)

I'll post it also in poiscenter, as well as my history.
« Last Edit: 12/04/2013 10:01:16 by urano75 »

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17881 on: 08/03/2013 19:37:12 »
That's an interesting. It's much more than I take. I found pregnenolone alone was enough to give me a notable boost in mood and energy so I have not idea what all that would do to me :)

Some of this supplementation is at cross purposes however. If you supplement methionine you're actually encouraging your body to make less methionine (probably via the SAM-e rate limiting) whereas taking methylfolate and methylcobalamin should increase the natural production and recycling of methionine.
Supplementing Methionine and SAM-e made me feel good (most of the time) but I get the same effect but just exploiting the methylation cycle and taking methyl folate.

BTW I had an O a few minutes ago and I feel fine. I've been trying to explain to people that I really am feeling a hell of a lot better.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17882 on: 08/03/2013 20:15:57 »
That's an interesting. It's much more than I take. I found pregnenolone alone was enough to give me a notable boost in mood and energy so I have not idea what all that would do to me :)

Some of this supplementation is at cross purposes however. If you supplement methionine you're actually encouraging your body to make less methionine (probably via the SAM-e rate limiting) whereas taking methylfolate and methylcobalamin should increase the natural production and recycling of methionine.
Supplementing Methionine and SAM-e made me feel good (most of the time) but I get the same effect but just exploiting the methylation cycle and taking methyl folate.

BTW I had an O a few minutes ago and I feel fine. I've been trying to explain to people that I really am feeling a hell of a lot better.
Thanks K.

Pregnenolone has been one of the best hits for me, but clearly not enough. T3 has been the next step forward.

I've reintroduced methionine recently, hoping that it could help decreasing histamine especially now during allergic season and increasing methylation in general (more dopamine, serotonine...). That's why I'm going to add TMG as well (which I understand you have in your program as well). That would help recycling methionine I guess, and increase methylation. Methyl-folate and methyl-cobalamine are already part of my B-complex. Adding methionine and supporting its recycling should potentiate it all, do I understand correctly? I used SAM-e in the past, it lifted my depression a bit at that time but unfortunately not enough. Also it's expensive and easily degraded.

I'm not sure how extra niacin will fit in this picture. If it's good to take it regularly (besides what's already in my B-complex), or try it just before an O.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17883 on: 08/03/2013 21:37:17 »
For those who have flu-like symptoms 1-2 days after an O like me.

Are you able to determine if they are a consequence of a real viral infection (flu-like), even with no fever?
In other words, is it possible that for some people immune system is somehow temporary weakened after an O and this eventually "opens the gates" to infections?
This is pretty much my feeling, but it could obviously be hardly proved and verified. I know that most of my clear infective episodes (generally viral at the beginning, bacterial eventually) are initiated or aggravated by sexual activity. It's been like this for 20 years. I feel that my POIS symptoms are like small viral infections resolved in 2-3 days, and reoccurring at the next episode.

Alternatively, immune system has in my case an inflammatory response which makes my muscles sore and weak (exactly like flu does) even though there is no virus around, which can be of allergic or autoimmune nature.

Not sure if it can make a difference practically speaking, but was curious if anyone ever had the same thoughts...

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17884 on: 09/03/2013 15:56:39 »
Excellent report of your past and current treatments, urano.

There's been a lot of discussion over the years here about possible causes of POIS including bacterial/viral or autoimmune causes. The way I see it there probably isn't one root cause that's the same for everyone. Hypothetically one person could have a nutritional deficiency or imbalance that lead to an imbalance in hormones which then somehow caused POIS. Another might have been sensitive to an environmental pollutant which damaged their immune system causing an abnormal autoimmune response to some component of semen. There's a lot of different possibilities.

For myself I'm fairly certain I have a lot of inflammation or nerve sensitivity after an O, but I'm not sure what could be causing that. Also since I feel better with drugs that work on gaba and dopamine receptors it could be some sort of neurotransmitter depletion. For all I know just the quantity of semen I'm ejaculating could be draining nutrients or energy from elsewhere in my body.

But I don't think of my symptoms as flu-like since during a flu all I get is nausea, which I never get from POIS.
« Last Edit: 09/03/2013 16:00:14 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17885 on: 09/03/2013 17:41:02 »
Excellent report of your past and current treatments, urano.

There's been a lot of discussion over the years here about possible causes of POIS including bacterial/viral or autoimmune causes. The way I see it there probably isn't one root cause that's the same for everyone. Hypothetically one person could have a nutritional deficiency or imbalance that lead to an imbalance in hormones which then somehow caused POIS. Another might have been sensitive to an environmental pollutant which damaged their immune system causing an abnormal autoimmune response to some component of semen. There's a lot of different possibilities.

For myself I'm fairly certain I have a lot of inflammation or nerve sensitivity after an O, but I'm not sure what could be causing that. Also since I feel better with drugs that work on gaba and dopamine receptors it could be some sort of neurotransmitter depletion. For all I know just the quantity of semen I'm ejaculating could be draining nutrients or energy from elsewhere in my body.

But I don't think of my symptoms as flu-like since during a flu all I get is nausea, which I never get from POIS.

Vincent M, I could add more cofactors to the mentioned ones: chronic inflammation, Lyme disease, heavy metals poisoning, leaky gut syndrome, candida/yeast infections, EMF sensitiviness.... possibly this is the top of many different icebergs.

As to me:

I know I have adrenals and secondarily thyroid issues --> work in progress
I know I had a poor gut status 2 years ago (disbiosis, yeast, mold) --> cleared and under control
I know I had nutritional deficiencies, and likely malabsorption (I'm way too skinny) --> after 2 years of heavy and full supplementation that shouldn't be the main issue
I know have frequent viral infections, initiated or augmented by sexual acrivity --> current
I know I have dopamine depletion feelings after O. This, together with allergies and the fact I responded well to SSRI, probably places me in the category of undermethylators --> partially worked on this, but not systematically enough
I know I'm in need of chelating toxic elements (fluoride, arsenic) --> work in progress
...
Unfortunately there are so many things I don't know and have not had a chance to work on yet...
I do hope I'm among the ones who can benefit from niacin. I can't try it right now, still down from previous O...

Has anyone with autoimmune indicators tried LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone)?

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Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17886 on: 10/03/2013 01:39:06 »
For those who have flu-like symptoms 1-2 days after an O like me.

Are you able to determine if they are a consequence of a real viral infection (flu-like), even with no fever?
In other words, is it possible that for some people immune system is somehow temporary weakened after an O and this eventually "opens the gates" to infections?
This is pretty much my feeling, but it could obviously be hardly proved and verified. I know that most of my clear infective episodes (generally viral at the beginning, bacterial eventually) are initiated or aggravated by sexual activity. It's been like this for 20 years. I feel that my POIS symptoms are like small viral infections resolved in 2-3 days, and reoccurring at the next episode.

Alternatively, immune system has in my case an inflammatory response which makes my muscles sore and weak (exactly like flu does) even though there is no virus around, which can be of allergic or autoimmune nature.

The flu-symptoms after an O when I was 17-21 were quite severe. It typically started with sore throat (24 hrs after an O). 50% of time it progressed to bronchitis or pneumonia (in 3-4 days), which took about 2-3 weeks to recover. These 50% severe cases usually result from multiple O's within a day or two. My hormone was raging as in the case of any teenager.

I am fairly certain in the first few days of flu-like symptoms, the infection is viral (no mucus, only dry cough, and not responding to antibiotics). It usually progress to bacterial infection after a week (lots of mucus, and responding to antibiotics very quickly).

One reason that I no longer progress into a full-blown viral/bacterial infection any more is that my weight is now normal. I was very skinny between 17-21, but had gained about 40lbs in my early 20s and those bronchitis/pneumonia stopped at that time.

I do think that my immune system is suppressed after an O for an unknown reason, in addition to the inflamation.

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Offline meteo74

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17887 on: 10/03/2013 07:46:01 »
yes,urano75

for me thats true, my immune system is weakened after O, and I suffer from symptoms of flu-like.... and i treat my self with Antibiotic.
//you talk about me //


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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17888 on: 10/03/2013 09:43:51 »
For those who have flu-like symptoms 1-2 days after an O like me.

Are you able to determine if they are a consequence of a real viral infection (flu-like), even with no fever?
In other words, is it possible that for some people immune system is somehow temporary weakened after an O and this eventually "opens the gates" to infections?
This is pretty much my feeling, but it could obviously be hardly proved and verified. I know that most of my clear infective episodes (generally viral at the beginning, bacterial eventually) are initiated or aggravated by sexual activity. It's been like this for 20 years. I feel that my POIS symptoms are like small viral infections resolved in 2-3 days, and reoccurring at the next episode.

Alternatively, immune system has in my case an inflammatory response which makes my muscles sore and weak (exactly like flu does) even though there is no virus around, which can be of allergic or autoimmune nature.

The flu-symptoms after an O when I was 17-21 were quite severe. It typically started with sore throat (24 hrs after an O). 50% of time it progressed to bronchitis or pneumonia (in 3-4 days), which took about 2-3 weeks to recover. These 50% severe cases usually result from multiple O's within a day or two. My hormone was raging as in the case of any teenager.

I am fairly certain in the first few days of flu-like symptoms, the infection is viral (no mucus, only dry cough, and not responding to antibiotics). It usually progress to bacterial infection after a week (lots of mucus, and responding to antibiotics very quickly).

One reason that I no longer progress into a full-blown viral/bacterial infection any more is that my weight is now normal. I was very skinny between 17-21, but had gained about 40lbs in my early 20s and those bronchitis/pneumonia stopped at that time.

I do think that my immune system is suppressed after an O for an unknown reason, in addition to the inflamation.

Romies, our respective scenarios look somewhat matching. For years I've been catching viral infections, which eventually paved the way to bacterial superinfections. I eventually passed so many winters with continued bacterial (e.g. strep) infections at the upper respiratory ways never resolved. One difference was that my infections became in time more kind of chronic low-grade rather than full-blown, with no fever but really dragging me down. I was reluctant to use antibiotics for them, as I would have fallen back in the same situation few weeks after and in the meantime I would have messed up my gut.

In the last 2 years, with all the things I'm doing and taking, it's become less frequent to catch bacterial infections, especially in a chronic way, but I get viruses nonetheless. I feel that most of the times they're responsible for my flu-like symptoms, but I can't rule out the symptoms sometimes occur independently.

I think this is somehow related to adrenal weakness again. It's possible that my adrenals can't temporarily cope with the stress caused by an O, and eventually the immune system is weakened for awhile, e.g. because there is not enough cortisol around. It's possible that adrenals are depleted both by some kind of inflammatory/allergic process right after O, as they try to calm down the inflammation releasing more cortisol; or that they suffer from a temporary dopamine depletion which, for some reason (e.g. undermethylation), is not rapidly replaced.

I mention adrenals again because I tend to have low cortisol signs after an O (low blood sugar, postural hypotension, temp drops) as I do after other too exhausting activities. But I think that adrenals in my case are just a link that has weakened after years of infections, inflammation, allergies etc, so it's possible there's some other issues behind/besides them to be addressed.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17889 on: 10/03/2013 09:54:24 »
yes,urano75

for me thats true, my immune system is weakened after O, and I suffer from symptoms of flu-like.... and i treat my self with Antibiotic.
//you talk about me //

meteo74, if you respond consistently well to antibiotics, then you are regularly coping with bacterial infections, not viral. The problem with a regular use of antibiotics, as you will know, is that they cause dysbiosis and eventually candida/yeast/fungal infections in the gut, and further weaken the immune system, or expose to laky gut issues etc. So it's possible that you'll have to deal with these issues as well, and try to limit antibiotics to the strictly necessary, also to avoid developing resistant bacterial strains.
Alternatively to antibiotics, I sometimes use both colloidal silver and oil of oregano, maybe enough just gargling them for sore throat.

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Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17890 on: 10/03/2013 16:30:29 »
Andrea, what you said makes sense. Here are some my experiences that may be helpful.
Romies, our respective scenarios look somewhat matching. For years I've been catching viral infections, which eventually paved the way to bacterial superinfections. I eventually passed so many winters with continued bacterial (e.g. strep) infections at the upper respiratory ways never resolved. One difference was that my infections became in time more kind of chronic low-grade rather than full-blown, with no fever but really dragging me down. I was reluctant to use antibiotics for them, as I would have fallen back in the same situation few weeks after and in the meantime I would have messed up my gut.

Antibiotics is hard on my gut too. But I am able to manage it with probiotics and lots of yogurt (3x my usually daily portion) starting 2-3 days after the beginning of the antibiotics treatment. I usually do probiotics and yogurt until a week after the completion of antibiotics. that way my guy problem is minimized.

Fortunately,  I only need to do this infrequently (~ once every other year) and now the causes for antibiotics is usually unrelated to POIS.

I think this is somehow related to adrenal weakness again. It's possible that my adrenals can't temporarily cope with the stress caused by an O, and eventually the immune system is weakened for awhile, e.g. because there is not enough cortisol around. It's possible that adrenals are depleted both by some kind of inflammatory/allergic process right after O, as they try to calm down the inflammation releasing more cortisol; or that they suffer from a temporary dopamine depletion which, for some reason (e.g. undermethylation), is not rapidly replaced.

I mention adrenals again because I tend to have low cortisol signs after an O (low blood sugar, postural hypotension, temp drops) as I do after other too exhausting activities. But I think that adrenals in my case are just a link that has weakened after years of infections, inflammation, allergies etc, so it's possible there's some other issues behind/besides them to be addressed.

There may be something else other than cortisol. Cortisol is a known immune suppressor: the more cortisol you have, the less active your immune system is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol [nofollow]
So I suspect something else is at play here.

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Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17891 on: 10/03/2013 16:44:59 »
Again, here is my experience (high histamine, low dopamine, low serotonin person). Your mileage may vary.
- Has the mechanism of why niacin works for many with POIS symptoms been understood or at least guessed? What's the percentage of folks here which benefit from niacin, and what is likely to be their weak link?
Why exactly the flushing of niacin works is still unclear. Hypothesis involves Prostaglandin E2 generated during flushing.

Niacin/Niacinamide makes me worse: histamine will flare up (more heart burn, more nasal/eye allergy), probably because niacin soak up methyl group. Niacin does not help my POIS symptoms

- Specifically in my case, given my history of hypoadrenia, allergies and depression, it is likely I am high histamine, undermethylating and low dopamine/serotonin: is niacin supposed to help in this situation, or would it make it worse?
If we have similar histamine, dopamine, serotonin profile, my guess is that it will make you worse.
- Is it necessary to wait for a flush before O to make it effective, or is it only a signal to be sure that niacin has saturated? If the flush occurs in an unpredictable amount of time, or it never occurs as it happened yesterday, it might hard to manage, how to make it happen approximately at a wanted time?
This is a big problem with niacin flush method for me. My professional schedule does not allow me to fast for 4 hrs then wait for the flush before every O. too much overhead.

- Does regularly using a full complex of B vitamins as I do interfere with the effectiveness of niacin for preventing POIS symptoms?

Many thanks!
Andrea

I found my current POIS regimen only requires a few supplements -1hrs before an O, and a few supplements within +24hrs after an O. That's enough to relieve all symptoms.

I do adhere to a regular supplement regimen to improve my mental sharpness, but it does not help/hinder my POIS recovery.

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Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17892 on: 10/03/2013 16:59:06 »
I know I have dopamine depletion feelings after O. This, together with allergies and the fact I responded well to SSRI, probably places me in the category of undermethylators --> partially worked on this, but not systematically enough
I was on 5-htp daily to help the low mood after an O for a few years. But now I resolved it, 5-htp makes me very sedated, probably because excess 5-HT is converted to serotonin. Just be aware that 5-htp can be detrimental when you find a good regimen to recover from POIS

I know I'm in need of chelating toxic elements (fluoride, arsenic) --> work in progress
How did you find out you have high arsenic/fluoride level? Serum/Urine test or something else?
I do hope I'm among the ones who can benefit from niacin. I can't try it right now, still down from previous O...

i've found NADH 10mg + methyl-b9,b12 + Ginkgo is probably the most helpful thing to pull me out of POIS, even when you are already stuck in it.

my current POIS regimen

Pre-O      methyl-guard 400mcg, VC, Claritin
(1hr or a few minutes before O)

Post-org   (Zinc, Mg, P5p)all in 1-2 ZMA capsules + Ginkgo

Midnight  methyl x 1 + NADHx 10mg
(when I wake up to use bathroom in the middle of night)

NADH is to help boosting Bh4 level, which is a co-factor to generate dopamine, since it is the rate limiting step to convert tyrosine to L-PODA, and to convert Phenylalanine to tyrosine.
BH4 also helps in generating serotonin, since it is also rate-limiting in the tryptophan-> 5-htp convertion.

All of these help to reduce histamine, increase dopamine and serotonin levels.
check your pm please.
« Last Edit: 11/03/2013 05:43:19 by romies »

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17893 on: 10/03/2013 22:58:09 »
There may be something else other than cortisol. Cortisol is a known immune suppressor: the more cortisol you have, the less active your immune system is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol
So I suspect something else is at play here.

There is definitively something more than cortisol in play. However keep in mind that, while cortisol is antiinflammatory and an immunosoppressor, it is also required to get enough sugar and thyroid hormones in the cells and eventually produce energy. Enough cortisol is needed for any cells to function. Low cortisol is associated to allergies, inflammation, autoimmunity and immune dysfunction in general. It is known that people with adrenal fatigue/insufficiency are more prone to infections than people with normal adrenal function.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17894 on: 10/03/2013 23:47:48 »

I was on 5-htp daily to help the low mood after an O for a few years. But now I resolved it, 5-htp makes me very sedated, probably because excess 5-HT is converted to serotonin. Just be aware that 5-htp can be detrimental when you find a good regimen to recover from POIS


When my serotonine was out of balance, and had to be corrected by SSRI, I was depressed, obsessive, inhibited, isolated, insecure. Now it's not the case anymore, even if I use small amounts of 5-HTP.
POIS gives me dopamine-deficiency symtpoms instead: fatigue, apathy...

I've sent you a pm about your regimen.

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17895 on: 11/03/2013 14:53:56 »
Quote
NADH 10mg + methyl-b9,b12 + Ginkgo
Yes, that's similar to what I took initially. I rarely take the NADH now but it definitely worked for me. We both have GCH1 mutations, as you pointed out so I believe we're benefitting from the NADH recycling BH4 from BH2.I If this is correct then nicotinamide riboside (in milk and will be available as a separate supplement sometime this year perhaps) would have a similar effect.

BTW here's an interesting paper on methyl-donor consumption during pregnancy. It appears to boost the child's intelligence. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22686384

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17896 on: 11/03/2013 14:55:01 »
Here's my detox profile from genetic genie. (new test). It's based on my 23andme raw data.


CYP1A1*2C A4889G   rs1048943   CT   +/-
CYP1A1 m3 T3205C   rs4986883   TT   -/-
CYP1A1 C2453A   rs1799814   GG   -/-
CYP1A2 164A>C   rs762551   AC   +/-
CYP1B1 L432V   rs1056836   CG   +/-
CYP1B1 N453S   rs1800440   TT   -/-
CYP1B1 R48G   rs10012   CG   +/-
CYP2A6*2 1799T>A   rs1801272   AA   -/-
CYP2A6*20   rs28399444   II   -/-
CYP2C9*2 C430T   rs1799853   CC   -/-
CYP2C9*3 A1075C   rs1057910   AA   -/-
CYP2C19*17   rs12248560   TT   +/+
CYP2D6 S486T   rs1135840   CG   +/-
CYP2D6 100C>T   rs1065852   AG   +/-
CYP2D6 2850C>T   rs16947   GG   -/-
CYP2E1*1B 9896C>G   rs2070676   CG   +/-
CYP2E1*1B 10023G>A   rs55897648   GG   -/-
CYP2E1*4 4768G>A   rs6413419   GG   -/-
CYP3A4*1B   rs2740574   TT   -/-
CYP3A4*2 S222P   rs55785340   AA   -/-
CYP3A4*3 M445T   rs4986910   AA   -/-
CYP3A4*16 T185S   rs12721627   GG   -/-
GSTP1 I105V   rs1695   AA   -/-
GSTP1 A114V   rs1138272   CC   -/-
SOD2 A16V   rs4880   AG   +/-
NAT1 R187Q   rs4986782   GG   -/-
NAT1 R64W   rs1805158   CC   -/-
NAT2 I114T   rs1801280   TT   -/-
NAT2 R197Q   rs1799930   AG   +/-
NAT2 G286E   rs1799931   GG   -/-
NAT2 R64Q   rs1801279   GG   -/-
NAT2 K268R   rs1208   AA   -/-

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Offline GDRTW

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17897 on: 11/03/2013 16:37:10 »
Well, I have been hesitant about posting this but since all this recent talk about serotonin and such. I have come across something that helps me tremendoulsy with my searing eye pain from POIS. The problem is it is illegal and obviously hazardous to your health. It is called ecstasy. MDMA acts as a releasing agent of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine. MDMA increases oxytocin levels, which may strengthen the therapeutic alliance. I am not trying to sway anyone into going down this road as a cure of course, but trying to find a corralation to what could be potentially important components concerning specific targeted areas of the neurological system.

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Offline Nightingale

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17898 on: 11/03/2013 18:26:58 »
Here's my detox profile from genetic genie. (new test). It's based on my 23andme raw data.

What's a good resource to interpret these results?

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17899 on: 11/03/2013 18:32:47 »
Here's my detox profile from genetic genie. (new test). It's based on my 23andme raw data.

What's a good resource to interpret these results?

Unfortunately, the only resource is looking on snppedia.com for information about each mutation.