Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17950 on: 20/03/2013 13:50:36 »
I have a question for everyone here:  have your POIS symptoms, especially your cognitive symptoms, ever improved when you were sick with the flu/cold/other?

So, I'd like to know.  Have you experienced reduced symptoms, especially cognitive ones, from being sick?  And, do you get sick less, the same, or more than others?


I experienced less of my physical pain symptoms the past few times I've gotten the flu, but I'm not sure if it was just the nausea overpowering my POIS pain. I'd probably need to get sick more often in order to determine how it affects my cognition. Like you I rarely get sick. Maybe 3 or 4 times a year I'll get colds or flus.

I do seem to have decreased social anxiety when I get a headache, but perhaps the pain of the headache makes me forget about the acid pain of the anxiety.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17951 on: 20/03/2013 16:11:13 »
I received many messages from the members for the early posting of the treatments taken.  Most of them are telling that as I cured from last 25 days, they are telling to post.  further, they told that even if my POIS bounce back on me, they are ready to take it.  Due to this reason, I am posting the treatments taken by me.  But at this time, I can provide only the details of medicines taken.  The scientific reason, causes for POIS, precatutions to be taken, how many days tablets to be taken will post on 1st April. Presently I am having little knowledge on it.  My next appontment with the doctor is on 27th March.  During that time, I will discuss in detail the scientific part of the POIS. 

Medicines taken by me and continuing as of now from the last one month and ten days by me are:


a)Tablet Palsinuron   1-1-1 After food.
b) Kamdudha Ras      2-0-2 Before food.
c)Krumi Kuthar Ras   2-0-2 After food
d) Pathyadi Ghanavati 2-0-2 After food.
e) Amla Juice - 30 ml of amla juice daily after wakeup with 30 ml of water. 

 
Further, we require to restrain from Tomato, Curd, Non-Veg, Alchohol, Oily & Bakery items, Green Chillies, Sweets, Chats, Ice creams.  If not followed this, he told medicines will not work properly and imbalance (doshas) will remain.  I am following strict diet as suggested by him & found the results. 

Further, he told that some of the medicines listed above to be strictly taken under supervision of the doctor as some should be taken only for two months.  Further, he told first Ayurvedic physician requires to diagnoise the patient by checking the pulse rate to determine which part of the body is imbalanced.  Based on this, he prescribed the above medicines for me. 

Note:  Kindly consult your physician if anyone would like start to this.  Don't do self medication.  It is dangerous for your Kidneys and Liver.

When I started this medicine, I started founding reduction in symtoms from the 7th day of the treatment.  Now, my POIS is cured from the past 25 days. 

Earlier, (I think 3 times from Nov 2011 because of a) Herbal life diet b) Neem c) Calcium Channel Blocker )my POIS used to cure only for 5 or 6 days and used to bounce back.  But this time, its already 25 days after successs.  I feel I got the permanent solution due to my effort from November 2011.  I found this forum in October 2011.  I am cured after considering each and everybody's symtoms, various interpretations of POIS, I understand little about medical especially mental symtoms.  I visited all the streams of doctors tested all the organs.  But there is no negative result anywhere except little increase in Estrogen level and AEC is 1500.  Doctors and including new ayurvedic doctor come to a view that the above two are not the reason for my POIS.  Estrogen high (not dominance is due to my excess weight which is due to calcium chanel blocker), AEC due to little Asthama). 

I will discuss the causes for POIS in my next appointment with him on 27th March. 
 
I thank for this forum once more. 
« Last Edit: 20/03/2013 16:22:22 by nathan123 »

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17952 on: 20/03/2013 16:30:32 »
Thanks Nathan for posting  this.

This is exactly what I am doing,    checking the blood pressure and  seeing which side the person is  at   or the temperatures/   This medicine  changes   sodium potassium ratio.    And fixes your  copper zinc imbalance/     That is why you are not  taking any sugars, for your adrenal glands. 

Thanks again.  This proves my theory completely.     
If  anyone can have access to NES machine,  you can  balance yourself really well.

But   people have   many imbalances,   and every imbalance will  cause  low testosterone.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17953 on: 20/03/2013 16:35:06 »
Estrogen  dominance  causes  high sodium  and   inflammation,  and asthma.    Nathan  I think B6  that you took was too   much, you should have taken only zinc, and you would have  the same result as  with this medicine.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17954 on: 20/03/2013 17:00:25 »
Nathan,    so it looks like they gave you  some    neuro stimulator like lecithin and     anti parasite stuff.  I  wondering what is really helping you  out of these 4,           When your thyroid is low ,   you dont produce inositol and   you dont make  lecithin out of it,  so  boom that is number one of your  supplements/  Second one is for  gastritis, which is also  depends on thyroid, since thyroid  regulates the acidity in  your stomach/   Number 3 is  anti worm stuff,  which is also understandable  with low thyroid. 

Trust me  these  are doing exactly the same thing, but  I am not sure if they are fixing you  though,  they might  just    add stuff that you  miss,  but thyroid will still underwork.

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Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17955 on: 20/03/2013 17:27:24 »
Nathan,    so it looks like they gave you  some    neuro stimulator like lecithin and     anti parasite stuff.  I  wondering what is really helping you  out of these 4,           When your thyroid is low ,   you dont produce inositol and   you dont make  lecithin out of it,  so  boom that is number one of your  supplements/  Second one is for  gastritis, which is also  depends on thyroid, since thyroid  regulates the acidity in  your stomach/   Number 3 is  anti worm stuff,  which is also understandable  with low thyroid. 

Trust me  these  are doing exactly the same thing, but  I am not sure if they are fixing you  though,  they might  just    add stuff that you  miss,  but thyroid will still underwork.

Dear Gbuldev,

I expected this type of explanation & reason from you.  Don't make your assumption on my thyroid.  It is perfectly fine.  I took a opinion from 4 doctors on my thyroid and it is perfectly fine.  I am guessing you are googling these medicine and come to a conclusion about this.  Google articles are not scientifically proven and don't rely on this.  The only best reliable source is webmed. 

Further, my copper and zinc levels are normal.  that also I confirmed through my hair analysis test, urine test and blood test.  Don't make asssumptions on this.  So, don't make comments on me on thyroid and mineral imbalance because I am 100% sure that it was perfect.  So, don't make wrong information to this forum.  If you are comment on other issue, I will accept subject to further confirmation from doctor.  without confirmation from doctor, I will not accept any thing.   

I still don't know what was wrong with me when I am in POIS.  That's why I am having appointment on 27th to discuss these doubts and future medicines.  I want to discuss which medicine worked or its because of all four medicine.  Amazing result from this.   

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Offline chris 18

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17956 on: 20/03/2013 17:42:44 »
I received many messages from the members for the early posting of the treatments taken.  Most of them are telling that as I cured from last 25 days, they are telling to post.  further, they told that even if my POIS bounce back on me, they are ready to take it.  Due to this reason, I am posting the treatments taken by me.  But at this time, I can provide only the details of medicines taken.  The scientific reason, causes for POIS, precatutions to be taken, how many days tablets to be taken will post on 1st April. Presently I am having little knowledge on it.  My next appontment with the doctor is on 27th March.  During that time, I will discuss in detail the scientific part of the POIS. 

Medicines taken by me and continuing as of now from the last one month and ten days by me are:


a)Tablet Palsinuron   1-1-1 After food.
b) Kamdudha Ras      2-0-2 Before food.
c)Krumi Kuthar Ras   2-0-2 After food
d) Pathyadi Ghanavati 2-0-2 After food.
e) Amla Juice - 30 ml of amla juice daily after wakeup with 30 ml of water. 

 
Further, we require to restrain from Tomato, Curd, Non-Veg, Alchohol, Oily & Bakery items, Green Chillies, Sweets, Chats, Ice creams.  If not followed this, he told medicines will not work properly and imbalance (doshas) will remain.  I am following strict diet as suggested by him & found the results. 

Further, he told that some of the medicines listed above to be strictly taken under supervision of the doctor as some should be taken only for two months.  Further, he told first Ayurvedic physician requires to diagnoise the patient by checking the pulse rate to determine which part of the body is imbalanced.  Based on this, he prescribed the above medicines for me. 

Note:  Kindly consult your physician if anyone would like start to this.  Don't do self medication.  It is dangerous for your Kidneys and Liver.

When I started this medicine, I started founding reduction in symtoms from the 7th day of the treatment.  Now, my POIS is cured from the past 25 days. 

Earlier, (I think 3 times from Nov 2011 because of a) Herbal life diet b) Neem c) Calcium Channel Blocker )my POIS used to cure only for 5 or 6 days and used to bounce back.  But this time, its already 25 days after successs.  I feel I got the permanent solution due to my effort from November 2011.  I found this forum in October 2011.  I am cured after considering each and everybody's symtoms, various interpretations of POIS, I understand little about medical especially mental symtoms.  I visited all the streams of doctors tested all the organs.  But there is no negative result anywhere except little increase in Estrogen level and AEC is 1500.  Doctors and including new ayurvedic doctor come to a view that the above two are not the reason for my POIS.  Estrogen high (not dominance is due to my excess weight which is due to calcium chanel blocker), AEC due to little Asthama). 

I will discuss the causes for POIS in my next appointment with him on 27th March. 
 
I thank for this forum once more.

Nathan can you ask your doctor at your next appointment if this method will have a permanent result after some period..Because its almost impossibe to follow this strict diet and medicines for your rest of your life.Thanks.

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17957 on: 20/03/2013 17:43:54 »
Nathan

Whatever you say , my friend/  Yes I  googled  the stuff that you are taking,   and  I know what  that stuff for/

I am not trying to advice you  on anything,   I know exactly what I am talking about your thyroid and copper zinc ratio/  Your doctors dont know.  You  are taking antiparasites stuff  and it does not  mean other people  have  parasites.   Parasites  kill B 12, and  B 12 is very  very important for the  thyroid.
 

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Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17958 on: 20/03/2013 18:05:21 »
Nathan

Whatever you say , my friend/  Yes I  googled  the stuff that you are taking,   and  I know what  that stuff for/

I am not trying to advice you  on anything,   I know exactly what I am talking about your thyroid and copper zinc ratio/  Your doctors dont know.  You  are taking antiparasites stuff  and it does not  mean other people  have  parasites.   Parasites  kill B 12, and  B 12 is very  very important for the  thyroid.

I am sure that I am ok with thyroid and mineral balance,  there was something other problem with me for POIS. That one I confirm from my doctor on 27th.  Lets work together as a whole for this forum. 
I will let you know, the reasons soon.  Any way thanks for your support provided. 

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Offline nathan123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17959 on: 20/03/2013 18:08:53 »
I received many messages from the members for the early posting of the treatments taken.  Most of them are telling that as I cured from last 25 days, they are telling to post.  further, they told that even if my POIS bounce back on me, they are ready to take it.  Due to this reason, I am posting the treatments taken by me.  But at this time, I can provide only the details of medicines taken.  The scientific reason, causes for POIS, precatutions to be taken, how many days tablets to be taken will post on 1st April. Presently I am having little knowledge on it.  My next appontment with the doctor is on 27th March.  During that time, I will discuss in detail the scientific part of the POIS. 

Medicines taken by me and continuing as of now from the last one month and ten days by me are:


a)Tablet Palsinuron   1-1-1 After food.
b) Kamdudha Ras      2-0-2 Before food.
c)Krumi Kuthar Ras   2-0-2 After food
d) Pathyadi Ghanavati 2-0-2 After food.
e) Amla Juice - 30 ml of amla juice daily after wakeup with 30 ml of water. 

 
Further, we require to restrain from Tomato, Curd, Non-Veg, Alchohol, Oily & Bakery items, Green Chillies, Sweets, Chats, Ice creams.  If not followed this, he told medicines will not work properly and imbalance (doshas) will remain.  I am following strict diet as suggested by him & found the results. 

Further, he told that some of the medicines listed above to be strictly taken under supervision of the doctor as some should be taken only for two months.  Further, he told first Ayurvedic physician requires to diagnoise the patient by checking the pulse rate to determine which part of the body is imbalanced.  Based on this, he prescribed the above medicines for me. 

Note:  Kindly consult your physician if anyone would like start to this.  Don't do self medication.  It is dangerous for your Kidneys and Liver.

When I started this medicine, I started founding reduction in symtoms from the 7th day of the treatment.  Now, my POIS is cured from the past 25 days. 

Earlier, (I think 3 times from Nov 2011 because of a) Herbal life diet b) Neem c) Calcium Channel Blocker )my POIS used to cure only for 5 or 6 days and used to bounce back.  But this time, its already 25 days after successs.  I feel I got the permanent solution due to my effort from November 2011.  I found this forum in October 2011.  I am cured after considering each and everybody's symtoms, various interpretations of POIS, I understand little about medical especially mental symtoms.  I visited all the streams of doctors tested all the organs.  But there is no negative result anywhere except little increase in Estrogen level and AEC is 1500.  Doctors and including new ayurvedic doctor come to a view that the above two are not the reason for my POIS.  Estrogen high (not dominance is due to my excess weight which is due to calcium chanel blocker), AEC due to little Asthama). 

I will discuss the causes for POIS in my next appointment with him on 27th March. 
 
I thank for this forum once more.

Nathan can you ask your doctor at your next appointment if this method will have a permanent result after some period..Because its almost impossibe to follow this strict diet and medicines for your rest of your life.Thanks.

During my 2nd appointment with him.  The following of diet is to cure early by medicine. I discussed this issue and he told that it is only for transitionery period from POIS to NON POIS.  Both diets and tablets required to be take maximum for 2 months as per him.  At that time, everything in the body will be balanced.  Will update after third appointment on 27th. 

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17960 on: 20/03/2013 21:21:14 »
Nathan ,

Dont get me wrong I am  very very happy that you are cured. Trust me, I wish you all the best.  But  seriously  all those supps are to control   problems that are mainly caused by thyroid.   
Nervous system  problem is cause by  lack of  lecithin which is  made  from inositol which is  made only when your thyroid is  working really good, TSH 3 and higher is very very slow, even 2 is slow for some people.   
Parasites are possible in India and elsewhere   and   sometimes caused by lacking  of  acid in your stomach which is also controlled by the thyroid.    When you balance   yourself  with these  medicine of yours  ,  you might start getting  right nutrients in  and absorb them, since  right now your problem is malabsorbtion  from low thyroid.

I hope it is  something else, but it is not/     Your estrogen  is higher than  progesterone and  it is also from  low thyroid. Your testosterone is low and  thus  inflammation  exists

This is my take on this,  and I hope you all the best.    GO have  tonns of SEX, you  deserve it.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17961 on: 21/03/2013 13:09:46 »
A quick update on my niacin experiments.
I finally got the recommended brand 100mg cps.
I decided to have a try yesterday, after 2 weeks abstaining from sex.
I took 200mg at 22:20, after 3 hours fasting.
40 mins after waiting for the flush, I took 100mg every 15 mins until I reached 500mg: still no flush.
I had an O around midnight, even without flush.
I had a challenging night with seasonal allergies symptoms despite the anti-histamines and didn't sleep very well.
I have mild flu-like symptoms today, mixed to allergy.

Few considerations and questions:
- Whatever the niacin brand and batch, I can't have a flush now up to 500mg on empty stomach: any ideas why? I remember I sometimes had unwanted flushes in the past with 500mg of niacin after meal.
- Has anyone with seasonal allergies (pollens) noted an aggravation of allergic symptoms (nose, throat irritation) after using niacin?
- I'm not able to say if today I only have light POIS (flu-like pains, cold hands) because of niacin, or for some other factors. Including the fact that 2 weeks of abstention are quite a bit, longer than usual.

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17962 on: 21/03/2013 14:11:29 »
Urano, a possible explanation for your lack of flush could be explained by the niacin flush test. herman introduced me to this:

"One way you can test your histamine levels is to buy some nicotinic acid (the niacin that causes the flush) in 50 mg. dose. If you have high histamine levels then you will experience a flush from only 50 mg. dose. If it takes 100 mg. to cause you to flush then you have normal (or balanced) histamine levels. If it takes from 150 mg. to 250 mg. dose of niacin to flush then you have low histamine levels."
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17963 on: 21/03/2013 14:17:04 »
Hi all

I had adeficiency of v. d3, but now after treatment my d3 balance is normal,and i still in pois,
so v.d3 has no effect on pois.
For you. There is no guarantee that we all have the same thing.

that's true, but same thing happened to me meteo.  i still take vitamin D because i don't want it to be low, but didn't help my pois.

If one is D3 deficient, as proved by labs, and the right sun exposure doesn't help or is not possible, then D3 supplementation is said to be beneficial for many reasons (calcium metabolism, immune system/autoimmunity, seasonal mood disorders,...). That's why D3 should be a basic supplement for most. If there's an imbalance, it must be rectified, and this is a very common one. That doesn't mean one will have to take it expecting to have specific symptoms cured. It could happen or not, there might be hundreds of other factors in play...

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17964 on: 21/03/2013 14:21:08 »
Urano, a possible explanation for your lack of flush could be explained by the niacin flush test. herman introduced me to this:

"One way you can test your histamine levels is to buy some nicotinic acid (the niacin that causes the flush) in 50 mg. dose. If you have high histamine levels then you will experience a flush from only 50 mg. dose. If it takes 100 mg. to cause you to flush then you have normal (or balanced) histamine levels. If it takes from 150 mg. to 250 mg. dose of niacin to flush then you have low histamine levels."

Daniel, thanks for the tip. I'm pretty sure I have a tendency to high histamine (allergies) and can't figure out why I shouldn't get a flush after 500mg of nicotinic acid, which would be more than enough even for low histamine people... it must be something either in the way I metabolize it, or some interference with other meds/supplements I'm taking...

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17965 on: 21/03/2013 16:01:41 »
I doubt I could flush only three hours after eating even at 500mg. About a 10 hour fast, maybe 8 or 9 hours, is an absolute necessity for me, which is why I rarely use niacin. However it does seem like most others among us don't require that long of a fast so it's possible it is the b-complex I believe you said you were taking that is somehow making it more difficult to flush.
« Last Edit: 21/03/2013 16:05:20 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17966 on: 21/03/2013 16:09:43 »
I doubt I could flush only three hours after eating even at 500mg. About a 10 hour fast, maybe 8 or 9 hours, is an absolute necessity for me, which is why I rarely use niacin. However it does seem like most others among us don't require that long of a fast so it's possible it is the b-complex I believe you said you were taking that is somehow making it more difficult to flush.

Yes, I understand the required fasting time is individual... about the B-complex/methylfolate/methylcobalamine - are any of these, or other factors increasing methylation (TMG, methionine...), known to hinder a niacin flush or make niacin useless for this purpose?

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17967 on: 21/03/2013 16:15:52 »

a)Tablet Palsinuron   1-1-1 After food.
b) Kamdudha Ras      2-0-2 Before food.
c)Krumi Kuthar Ras   2-0-2 After food
d) Pathyadi Ghanavati 2-0-2 After food.
e) Amla Juice - 30 ml of amla juice daily after wakeup with 30 ml of water. 


Further, he told that some of the medicines listed above to be strictly taken under supervision of the doctor as some should be taken only for two months. 

Nathan, are you sure you're taking Krumi Kuthar Ras and not Krimi Kuthar Ras? I couldn't find much about Krumi Kuthar Ras in a quick google search, but I did find that Krimi Kuthar Ras contains mercury and is therefore toxic(permanent nerve damage, etc.)

Here's my source:
Krimikuthar Ras ingredients, how to make:
Karpura Camphor Cinnamomum camphora 80 g
10 g fine powder of each of
Indrayava Connessi seed Holarrhena antidysenterica
Trayamana Gentiana kurroo
Ajamoda Ajowan (fruit) Trachyspermum roxburghianum
Vidanga False black pepper Embelia ribes
Shuddha Hingula Purified and processed Cinnabar (Mercury compound)
Shuddha Vatsanabha Purified Aconitum ferox
Nagakeshara Mesua ferrea
Juice extract of Vijaya Bhanga Cannabis sativa quantity sufficient for grinding for one day
Seed powder of Palasha Butea monosperma 150 g
Mushakarni quantity sufficient for grinding.
Brahmi Thyme leaved gratiola (whole plant) Bacopa monnieri juice extract quantity sufficient for grinding.

http://ayurmedinfo.com/2012/07/26/krimi-kuthar-ras-benefits-dosage-ingredients-side-effects/

This might be why your doctor said it's not safe to take for more than 2 months, but if this is the stuff you're taking then in my opinion it's not safe to take period.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17968 on: 21/03/2013 16:21:07 »

Yes, I understand the required fasting time is individual... about the B-complex/methylfolate/methylcobalamine - are any of these, or other factors increasing methylation (TMG, methionine...), known to hinder a niacin flush or make niacin useless for this purpose?

The B3 in your b-complex would be the most likely culprit I think since tolerance to the flush seems well known at least with extended niacin usage. I'm not sure if any of the other supplements would affect it.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17969 on: 21/03/2013 22:12:57 »
.....This might be why your doctor said it's not safe to take for more than 2 months, but if this is the stuff you're taking then in my opinion it's not safe to take period.

Good little quote by Philipus Aureolus Paracelsus, 16th century toxicologist- "Poison is in everything and no thing is without poison. The dosage makes it either a poison or a remedy."
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline Prancer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17970 on: 21/03/2013 23:27:20 »
So, I'd like to know.  Have you experienced reduced symptoms, especially cognitive ones, from being sick?  And, do you get sick less, the same, or more than others?

I also rarely get sick since getting POIS. Getting sick seems to temporarily reduce my symptoms, but it might be because they're overpowered by fever/weakness, which feels just as bad.

(The other day I wasn't sick in that sense, but I took some zinc and niacin at night & upon waking up in the morning I was puking my brains out for about 2 hours. I've had nausea before when I took zinc/niacin together but never that bad. So now I avoid that and take zinc separately and after eating something.)

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Offline thereishope

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17971 on: 22/03/2013 17:17:03 »
Hello fellow pois sufferers! I have this theory that the intensity of pois symptoms depends on how the O was done as well how many times it was done in that same period. The reason behind my theory is that having an O through watching porn on your own may cause a huge spike in dopamine before orgasm and a huge drop in dopamine after it therefore it may make the pois symtoms worst. However having sex with a partner has a more of emotional aspect to it and less of a dopamine rush that someone watching porn (especially those addicted to porn) might get.
Secondly as to how many times you have an O; that theory is simply behind the idea that too much of one thing is never good so basically if we abuse the O in one period may cause more intense pois symptoms then having only one O.

I am basically trying to find ways to deal with this disorder and optimize life by reducing the intensity of the down time.

What are your thoughts on this?
« Last Edit: 22/03/2013 17:19:07 by thereishope »

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17972 on: 22/03/2013 17:28:38 »
Hi, There is hope;

It's funny, I was just writing about dopamine in the other forum ; bellow is my though of the day thats are linked to yours

This research is amazing : http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/acute_dopamine_depletion_causes_psychological_distress

Did not find a better match with POIS ; fatigue, anxiety, social disorder and cognitive impairment that come and goes back within days ;

Orgasm = Dopamine VS prolactin ; What if prolactin wins by KO because raise for 1 hour only(non detectable) to the sky ? How long would dopamine need to go back to it's initial level ?

My prolactin like others is high, we had several hyperprolactinemia here(even adenoma)

Junk food cause low dopamine, stress cause low dopamine(see the vicious circle here), SSRI are also involved in dopamine reuptake inhibition, work for while and make symtoms worse(my story), coffe also.

Dopamine and testosterone are friends ; both high are both low

Is anybody tried to boost dopamine : soft way is mucuna pruriens / less soft ways are levodopa are dopamine agonist like bromocriptine(Coreeman tried that apparently but kinda disappeared from the forum then) ?

The theory is not new in here : https://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/test-page/orgasm-induced-catecholamine-imbalance-via-pituitary-dysfunction

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Offline chris 18

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17973 on: 22/03/2013 17:43:27 »
Hello fellow pois sufferers! I have this theory that the intensity of pois symptoms depends on how the O was done as well how many times it was done in that same period. The reason behind my theory is that having an O through watching porn on your own may cause a huge spike in dopamine before orgasm and a huge drop in dopamine after it therefore it may make the pois symtoms worst. However having sex with a partner has a more of emotional aspect to it and less of a dopamine rush that someone watching porn (especially those addicted to porn) might get.
Secondly as to how many times you have an O; that theory is simply behind the idea that too much of one thing is never good so basically if we abuse the O in one period may cause more intense pois symptoms then having only one O.

I am basically trying to find ways to deal with this disorder and optimize life by reducing the intensity of the down time.

What are your thoughts on this?

I 'll have to agree totally with you..I 've come to the conclusion that 2 or 3 orgasms make me feel a lot worse and for a longer period of time than one..And also that watching porn can make your symptoms much worse..but only because you last longer so you can enjoy,i believe..and when your lasting longer you will notice that before reaching an O some other pre-orgasm fluids are ejaculated and i believe that those fluids makes the POIS symptoms worser than having a quick orgasm..Thats my opinion because this is the way that happens to me at least..You could experiment too and see what is better for you..

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17974 on: 22/03/2013 18:43:53 »
Hello fellow pois sufferers! I have this theory that the intensity of pois symptoms depends on how the O was done as well how many times it was done in that same period. The reason behind my theory is that having an O through watching porn on your own may cause a huge spike in dopamine before orgasm and a huge drop in dopamine after it therefore it may make the pois symtoms worst. However having sex with a partner has a more of emotional aspect to it and less of a dopamine rush that someone watching porn (especially those addicted to porn) might get.
Secondly as to how many times you have an O; that theory is simply behind the idea that too much of one thing is never good so basically if we abuse the O in one period may cause more intense pois symptoms then having only one O.

I am basically trying to find ways to deal with this disorder and optimize life by reducing the intensity of the down time.

What are your thoughts on this?

I agree on several points. The more frequent the Os, the worse the symptoms. I try not to do it more often than once per week for this reason.

Secondly, my symptoms match dopamine depletion, even though I don't think it's all to it. I'm currently trying to use very high doses of L-Tyrosine as directed by my doctor to see if it makes a difference. Maybe it does a bit for cognitive/emotional symptoms, it really doesn't much for flu-like ones.

Also my prolactin hasn't proved very high in labs a couple of days after sex. I guess an after-sex spike is natural, the problem is a constantly high value. I was told that prolactin can get out of range secondarily to other endocrine issues, like thyroid issues.

It is told that addictive behaviors in general are correlated to low dopamine: porn, coffee, gambling, stimulating activities, drugs, possibly smoking are a way to temporarily raise dopamine levels to get a sense of reward, which is eventually followed by some low. Dopamine is the motivator neurotransmitter.

I think it is perfectly natural to have a low and a dopamine depletion after an O. Healthy males have also refractory periods. Moreover, it is also probably unavoidable to have a longer recovery time as you get older, one can't have the same efficient system as at age 18. Sex is expensive in terms of body resources, and this is natural.
What it's not healthy is when normal post-sex lows become extreme, open the gate to a number of problems and require a too long recovery period.

When I had a partner obviously sex was a more complete and rewarding experience, but it sadly eventually lead to the same physical problems as masturbating or watching porn. So let's not just blame masturbation and maybe feel "guilty" for it, when done with moderation and awareness it shouldn't create the problems we have. Porn addiction, and generally sex addiction, is a different thing; as any addictive and compulsive behavior can get out of control and become a destructive habit.

In other words I would be satisfied now if I could have sex once or twice a week and feel good. I don't ask to return to my adolescent's habits, when masturbating several times a day was the rule (and possibly opened the way to this problem, I sometimes wonder?).
« Last Edit: 22/03/2013 18:45:29 by urano75 »

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17975 on: 23/03/2013 10:55:02 »
Hi,

I've also been trying Tyrosine(about 1g/day) without notable efficiency ; Look at how works levodopa drugs for parkinson ; it's pretty complicated to have dopamine directly usable for your brain ;We could have tons of tyrosine, even Ldopa in the system, but nothing usable in the brain ;

My next exploration is to have my blood and 24h urine catecholamine tested ; I need to find the good moment to test that ; I guess a good scientific research with systematic methodology is the only way to have certainty.Anyways it's amazazing that if you deplete somebody's dopamine who is perfectly normal, you basicly obtain a POISED person.
 
I believe that if everything startt or is notably triggered by orgasm(or sexual arousal), we have to start looking at what happen chemicaly/physicaly in that moment ; dopamine/prolactin/cytokine are an answer.

About flu likes symtoms, I don't have much, but as NSAIDS make me fell better(others also included persons that avoid inflammatory foods), I guess we could have an inflammatory response to orgasm ; there is an other interesting link between prolactin and inflammation
Flu likes symtoms are maybe just inflammation reaction.

 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15319167
« Last Edit: 23/03/2013 11:06:51 by LAPOISSE2 »

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17976 on: 23/03/2013 11:43:33 »
Hi,

I've also been trying Tyrosine(about 1g/day) without notable efficiency ; Look at how works levodopa drugs for parkinson ; it's pretty complicated to have dopamine directly usable for your brain ;We could have tons of tyrosine, even Ldopa in the system, but nothing usable in the brain ;

My next exploration is to have my blood and 24h urine catecholamine tested ; I need to find the good moment to test that ; I guess a good scientific research with systematic methodology is the only way to have certainty.Anyways it's amazazing that if you deplete somebody's dopamine who is perfectly normal, you basicly obtain a POISED person.
 
I believe that if everything startt or is notably triggered by orgasm(or sexual arousal), we have to start looking at what happen chemicaly/physicaly in that moment ; dopamine/prolactin/cytokine are an answer.

About flu likes symtoms, I don't have much, but as NSAIDS make me fell better(others also included persons that avoid inflammatory foods), I guess we could have an inflammatory response to orgasm ; there is an other interesting link between prolactin and inflammation
Flu likes symtoms are maybe just inflammation reaction.

 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15319167

I've been loading 20/30g L-Tyrosine per day for the last 2 weeks, as directed by my doctor, with no noticeable effect. I'll have to try mucuna but I suspect it won't make a big difference at this point. I remind you that I've been on SSRI for 11 years, with few breaks. That might have screwed up some balance in dopamine synthesis. Also it can be related poor absorption of tyrosine and nutrients in general (history of gut issues, gluten/casein sensitivity) or poor conversion due to reduced enzymatic activity (metal toxicity, metabolic acidosis).

Urine test might be interesting, maybe not necessarily indicative of how much dopamine is in the brain and how quickly it's replaced after depletion I guess.

Flu-like symptoms (muscular soreness, colds) for me are much worse than cognitive ones. I am more and more convinced they are not just caused by an inflammatory response mimicing and infection, but that they are caused by *real* recurring viral infections.
I had a time in my early 20s when I got lots of unusual infections: toxoplasmosis (not a virus), mononucleosis (Epstein-Barr virus = EBV). Actually since those times I've always felt chronically sick, more than before I mean. I believe this plays a role in my chronic-fatigue issues and, together with allergies, has been a burden to my adrenals/thyroid, which on its turn makes one prone to inflammatory/infective conditions.

It's not uncommon to have EBV or CMV (herpes like viruses) in the body. The point is not much that those viruses are there, but rather why my immune system lets them reactivate so frequently.

So my two big questions currently are:

1- Why is my immune system so easily weakened to give way to viral infections almost every week, either from dormant viruses or new ones?
2- Why does sex seem to be a constant trigger for this condition?

Does this resonate with anyone's condition here?

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17977 on: 23/03/2013 15:50:11 »

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17978 on: 23/03/2013 16:41:09 »
an other interesting reading :

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/neurosex.html

I think I stumbled upon sites like this before. Apart from the specific page on neurotransmitters, if you surf the rest of the site you'll see that essentially it considers regular orgasm and ejaculation an unhealthy habit.
I've also read books about Taoist Sex (I regularly practice tai chi chuan) which support this position: semen should be preserved as much as possible, and semen retention techniques might help with it. They mention that loss of vital fluids weakens the brain (cognitive) and the joints (knees, spine) among other things. Traditional Chinese Medicine considers sexual-related issues coming from the depletion ofjing, a vital force stored in kidneys (see correspondence to adrenals in our medicine).

While this can be interesting information to know, it brings me to several questions:

- why are some so sick after sex, while the vast majority of people can have a regular sexual life without their lives to be ruined? An otherwise healthy man, with no special "spiritual" ambitions, shouldn't be too concerned to have Os with moderation.
- is orgasm or ejaculation the culprit? I've tried semen retention techniques for months with no noticeable results. A very simple one, pressing with three fingers on the perineum right before O to block the semen emission. I'm even not sure it is a safe thing to do in the long term. For me it seems that orgasm is the problem, rather than ejaculation.
- is a sexual life without O rewarding? I wish it is for me. It might be for some, but it requires a lot of training. That's also what tantric techniques are about. Doing sex without never reaching an O makes me a bit more obsessed with sexuality and prone to nocturnal emissions. Also, it happens to me that I use an O to release an inner tension or to help sleep better when I couldn't at night, especially when my adrenals did funny things.

I'm so deeply tired of this situation that I'm seriously considering to forget about sex as much as possible, avoid sexual stimulation and abstain as long as I can to minimize the impact of this condition. Then try to enjoy more other aspects of life, for which I'd otherwise have no energy available.

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17979 on: 23/03/2013 19:15:07 »
Hi, There is hope;

It's funny, I was just writing about dopamine in the other forum ; bellow is my though of the day thats are linked to yours

This research is amazing : http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/acute_dopamine_depletion_causes_psychological_distress

Did not find a better match with POIS ; fatigue, anxiety, social disorder and cognitive impairment that come and goes back within days ;

Orgasm = Dopamine VS prolactin ; What if prolactin wins by KO because raise for 1 hour only(non detectable) to the sky ? How long would dopamine need to go back to it's initial level ?

My prolactin like others is high, we had several hyperprolactinemia here(even adenoma)

Junk food cause low dopamine, stress cause low dopamine(see the vicious circle here), SSRI are also involved in dopamine reuptake inhibition, work for while and make symtoms worse(my story), coffe also.

Dopamine and testosterone are friends ; both high are both low

Is anybody tried to boost dopamine : soft way is mucuna pruriens / less soft ways are levodopa are dopamine agonist like bromocriptine(Coreeman tried that apparently but kinda disappeared from the forum then) ?

The theory is not new in here : https://sites.google.com/site/poiswebsite/test-page/orgasm-induced-catecholamine-imbalance-via-pituitary-dysfunction

The levodopa from m.pruiens can cross the blood brain barrier, but apparently most of it converts to dopamine before it reaches the brain and dopamine isn't good to have in your body in higher than normal amounts since it increases heart rate(I've experienced this) and I think has some other bad effects. I did seem to get a barely noticeable cognitive boost, but now I think it's probably not worth it due to the increased heart rate. The thing that took me by surprise is that the increased heart rate took a week or so after supplementation to show up. Quite a delayed effect.

So I'm guessing it would be safer to supplement tyrosine + NADH or L-phenylalanine. Patients with parkinson's are given a decarboxylase inhibitor known as carbidopa with levodopa to prevent it from being converted to dopamine before entering the brain, but it is only available by prescription and probably has some nasty side effects. I read somewhere that green tea and coffee contain small amounts of a weak decarboxylase inhibitor which is why some say it is better to take m.pruriens with green tea, but I'm having trouble verifying that now. This topic is somewhat discussed at the following link: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23668-boosting-dopamine-tyrosine-dlpa-or-mucuna-pruriens/
« Last Edit: 23/03/2013 19:16:38 by Vincent M »
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17980 on: 23/03/2013 20:55:00 »
I've also been trying Tyrosine(about 1g/day) without notable efficiency ; Look at how works levodopa drugs for parkinson ; it's pretty complicated to have dopamine directly usable for your brain ;We could have tons of tyrosine, even Ldopa in the system, but nothing usable in the brain ;

I've used Tyrosine on-and-off for a few years as well, up to (3-4g/day). The effect is barely perceivable.

I do agree that Dopamine depletion is a big part of at least 1 form of POIS. But for me, lack of dopamine probably comes from the lack of BH4, which is needed to hydrolyze L-Tyrosine into L-DOPA.

L-Tyrosine, like most amino acid supplement, needs to be taken with an empty stomach, because of the competition for absorption with other amino acids.

For this problem, supplementing NADH has been a big help for me. just 10 mg per morning, it feels stronger than a double-shoot expresso. With NADH, I don't need tyrosine. And if I do take Tyrosine 500mg during the day, it feels like a big cup of coffee.

Again, my POIS is largely under control with NADH, Methyl-guard, Vit-D and Ginkgo extract.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2013 21:08:07 by romies »

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17981 on: 23/03/2013 20:58:23 »
So my two big questions currently are:

1- Why is my immune system so easily weakened to give way to viral infections almost every week, either from dormant viruses or new ones?
2- Why does sex seem to be a constant trigger for this condition?

I had similar experiences when I was younger and did not know methyl-guard, vitamin-D etc.

My hypothesis for your question 1 is that immune systems are weakened by too much histamine and too much mast cell activity, triggered by an orgasm. And that can be addressed with methylfolate,methylB-12 if you are an undermethylator.

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Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17982 on: 23/03/2013 21:02:10 »
Traditional Chinese medicine is an empirical medicine, meaning its underlying theory is often very flawed and unreliable, and unverifiable, even though some of the treatment it provides may alleviate some symptoms sometimes. The theory behind Jing and the vital energy in kidneys is a quintessential example of such flawed theory, in my view.

I think I stumbled upon sites like this before. Apart from the specific page on neurotransmitters, if you surf the rest of the site you'll see that essentially it considers regular orgasm and ejaculation an unhealthy habit.
I've also read books about Taoist Sex (I regularly practice tai chi chuan) which support this position: semen should be preserved as much as possible, and semen retention techniques might help with it. They mention that loss of vital fluids weakens the brain (cognitive) and the joints (knees, spine) among other things. Traditional Chinese Medicine considers sexual-related issues coming from the depletion ofjing, a vital force stored in kidneys (see correspondence to adrenals in our medicine).

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Offline romies

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17983 on: 23/03/2013 21:07:03 »
The levodopa from m.pruiens can cross the blood brain barrier, but apparently most of it converts to dopamine before it reaches the brain and dopamine isn't good to have in your body in higher than normal amounts since it increases heart rate(I've experienced this) and I think has some other bad effects. I did seem to get a barely noticeable cognitive boost, but now I think it's probably not worth it due to the increased heart rate. The thing that took me by surprise is that the increased heart rate took a week or so after supplementation to show up. Quite a delayed effect.

So I'm guessing it would be safer to supplement tyrosine + NADH or L-phenylalanine. Patients with parkinson's are given a decarboxylase inhibitor known as carbidopa with levodopa to prevent it from being converted to dopamine before entering the brain, but it is only available by prescription and probably has some nasty side effects. I read somewhere that green tea and coffee contain small amounts of a weak decarboxylase inhibitor which is why some say it is better to take m.pruriens with green tea, but I'm having trouble verifying that now. This topic is somewhat discussed at the following link: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23668-boosting-dopamine-tyrosine-dlpa-or-mucuna-pruriens/

I agree with everything you said here, about the side effect of L-DOPA, and on NADH+tyrosine. I think NADH boost BH4 levels, which promote the process of phenylalanine->Tyrosine->L-DOPA in the brain. I do think tyrosine is superior to phenylalanine, because it will only consume 1 BH4 molecule to get L_DOPA, while  1 phenylalanine molecule will consume 2 BH4. And in the US and Europe, we probably already have too much phenylalanine in our diet, due to the wide use of aspartame, as in Diet-coke.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17984 on: 23/03/2013 21:27:10 »
So my two big questions currently are:

1- Why is my immune system so easily weakened to give way to viral infections almost every week, either from dormant viruses or new ones?
2- Why does sex seem to be a constant trigger for this condition?

I had similar experiences when I was younger and did not know methyl-guard, vitamin-D etc.

My hypothesis for your question 1 is that immune systems are weakened by too much histamine and too much mast cell activity, triggered by an orgasm. And that can be addressed with methylfolate,methylB-12 if you are an undermethylator.

I've already added 1g of methylfolate, 1g of methylcobalamine and 750mg of TMG to my huge daily list. Not seen a difference so far. Not even with the 30g of L-Tyrosine. I'll have to work on it.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17985 on: 23/03/2013 21:28:35 »
Traditional Chinese medicine is an empirical medicine, meaning its underlying theory is often very flawed and unreliable, and unverifiable, even though some of the treatment it provides may alleviate some symptoms sometimes. The theory behind Jing and the vital energy in kidneys is a quintessential example of such flawed theory, in my view.

I think I stumbled upon sites like this before. Apart from the specific page on neurotransmitters, if you surf the rest of the site you'll see that essentially it considers regular orgasm and ejaculation an unhealthy habit.
I've also read books about Taoist Sex (I regularly practice tai chi chuan) which support this position: semen should be preserved as much as possible, and semen retention techniques might help with it. They mention that loss of vital fluids weakens the brain (cognitive) and the joints (knees, spine) among other things. Traditional Chinese Medicine considers sexual-related issues coming from the depletion ofjing, a vital force stored in kidneys (see correspondence to adrenals in our medicine).

Maybe. I've used acupuncture for the last 2 years. Not sure how much it's been effective, with all the things I'm doing.

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17986 on: 23/03/2013 21:33:11 »
The levodopa from m.pruiens can cross the blood brain barrier, but apparently most of it converts to dopamine before it reaches the brain and dopamine isn't good to have in your body in higher than normal amounts since it increases heart rate(I've experienced this) and I think has some other bad effects. I did seem to get a barely noticeable cognitive boost, but now I think it's probably not worth it due to the increased heart rate. The thing that took me by surprise is that the increased heart rate took a week or so after supplementation to show up. Quite a delayed effect.

So I'm guessing it would be safer to supplement tyrosine + NADH or L-phenylalanine. Patients with parkinson's are given a decarboxylase inhibitor known as carbidopa with levodopa to prevent it from being converted to dopamine before entering the brain, but it is only available by prescription and probably has some nasty side effects. I read somewhere that green tea and coffee contain small amounts of a weak decarboxylase inhibitor which is why some say it is better to take m.pruriens with green tea, but I'm having trouble verifying that now. This topic is somewhat discussed at the following link: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23668-boosting-dopamine-tyrosine-dlpa-or-mucuna-pruriens/

I agree with everything you said here, about the side effect of L-DOPA, and on NADH+tyrosine. I think NADH boost BH4 levels, which promote the process of phenylalanine->Tyrosine->L-DOPA in the brain. I do think tyrosine is superior to phenylalanine, because it will only consume 1 BH4 molecule to get L_DOPA, while  1 phenylalanine molecule will consume 2 BH4. And in the US and Europe, we probably already have too much phenylalanine in our diet, due to the wide use of aspartame, as in Diet-coke.

The more conversions required, the more likely bottlenecks exist, the less likely enough dopamine will be produced.
DL-Phenylalanine will contribute to endorphins production too and in principle might help with pain (it didn't make a difference for me).
Aspartame... well, I'd never include it in a healthy diet. Nor any sweetened carbonated drinks, the worst kind of acidifiers and nutrients depletors.

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17987 on: 24/03/2013 07:07:02 »
The dopamine depletion theory seems like an obvious (read good) avenue to explore.  One of the main problems with it though is that it's not so easy to test.  I took a neurotransmitter test but the results were just bizarre.  i was low in about half the categories, but dopamine i was fine in.  My take-away was that the test confirms I have a neurotransmitter problem, but I don't think there are any other conclusions to reliably draw from it.

I took Wellbutrin (buproprion) for a while, which works to increase dopamine.  What I found is that it helped me a lot in the first 2 days I'd take it, then the positive effects would wear off.  My psychiatrist speculated that my dopamine wasn't being effectively cleared i.e. I had enough dopamine, it was just old and unusable.  Who knows if she's right, and it wouldn't even matter.  Not like we could do anything about that. 

Ultimately, what I've concluded is that dopamine plays a huge role in us feeling like sh 1t all the time.  If you just look at dopamine deficiency symptoms, you'll see that it rings true.  But a lack of dopamine isn't the root of our problem.   Something else is causing it.  Whether that thing is under-methylation, a copper toxicity, or whatever, as long as "it" is still in tact to reduce our dopamine, it seems unlikely that any approach that focuses directly on dopamine is going to be the answer we're looking for.  Instead, I propose we spend more time examining this list:

Factors which reduce dopamine levels:
1. Chronic stress
2. Inadequate sleep
3. Hypothyroidism
4. Lead, arsenic and cadmium exposure
5. Under-methylation
6. Tyrosine (precursor) deficiency
7. Magnesium, iron, zinc & vitamins B3/B6/C/D deficiency
8. Excess copper levels
9. Genetic dopamine receptor abnormalities
10.Chronic opioid, alcohol & marijuana use
11.Adrenal insufficiency
12.Glutathione deficiency
13.Influenza
14.Estrogen deficiency
15.Human growth hormone deficiency
« Last Edit: 24/03/2013 07:18:03 by B_Daniel »
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline B_Daniel

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17988 on: 24/03/2013 07:46:11 »
Is anyone going to try Nathan's concoction?  I'm currently working on a copper toxicity plan so don't have the capacity, so to speak. 

Let's be honest, a lot of us are hoping that somebody else is going to try it out so we don't have to.  Well, let's identify who these people are and thank them for it so in a month's time we're not in exactly the same position as we're in now.  Let's work together on this one.  Any volunteers? 

(As always: I'm obv not certified to clear these supplements as safe, so do some research or visit with your dr or whatever) 
2-5 days, 80% cognitive, tongue-tied, brain fog, lose track of thoughts mid conversation, anxiety, dry eyes, irritable, fatigue.  Believer of both auto-immune AND regeneration theories.  My sessions are much shorter when I've gone 2 wks without.

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Offline thereishope

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17989 on: 24/03/2013 09:42:17 »
In my opinion we should definitely make our way in to med schools. Our disorder is a big mystery and has way too many theories; if we get the attention of research facilities in med schools maybe we can get some answers. Dr. Waldinger's research was great but he didn't take it to the next level; he left his research kind of inconclusive.
 
I live in Montreal, Canada and I live near the on of the top 10 med schools in the world (McGill). This school has resources, facilities and is abundant in personnel. I feel like the answer is so close to me but for some reason I cannot get through to them. I have tried sending a few e-mails to professors and researchers and have gotten no responses. If myself and a few other pois sufferers start sending them e-mails who knows maybe we can gain some attention for them perhaps we can initiate a research, get clues, or anything at this point is better than nothing.

 

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17990 on: 24/03/2013 11:24:02 »
Hi everybody,

Thanks you all for your numerous answer about dopamine ; I really don't know if it's the root cause ; What I think is we need to start from what happen when O and study biochemical reaction following O. One of the answer is dopamine/prolactin/oxytocin ; There is some theory(traditional/religious) about excess masturbation conducting to "yoyo" patterns of these hormones ; The rebound effect is normal, but maybe for some of us the yoyo is to used and have trouble to goes up.

As you mentionned, B daniel, it could be also relevant to look at what cause dopamine depletion...but i'm sure it will lead to what cause this causes ; )...adrenal fatigue for instance is something we talked about a lot and personnaly i'm not supported by medical community or even by any relevant blood work.

I'm 100% with what thereishope said ; There is a research going one but it is for the end of the year and the budget is limited ; I guess we could take advantage with structuring research by our own.We could split in groups, study sub therory, make experiments, blood test and structure results.

My inch is it's very tricky to take 20 suplements in the same time ; As long as there is not a relevant theory, we have no idea at what help, what make things work, what need weeks to work, if something else than suplement help. Of course the best idea is to have all this conducted by a med school ; For that I guess we need to regroup by geographic area but maybe there is also sub type of POIS(maybe the physical flue likes symtoms type and the cognitives disorder types.

Anyways, we probably miss something in having everybody's subjective point of view related in one giant post overs years ; I guess something could appear if we organise ourselves and make something more methodological/statistic ; it's even a good start to speak with med school.


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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17991 on: 24/03/2013 16:29:40 »
The levodopa from m.pruiens can cross the blood brain barrier, but apparently most of it converts to dopamine before it reaches the brain and dopamine isn't good to have in your body in higher than normal amounts since it increases heart rate(I've experienced this) and I think has some other bad effects. I did seem to get a barely noticeable cognitive boost, but now I think it's probably not worth it due to the increased heart rate. The thing that took me by surprise is that the increased heart rate took a week or so after supplementation to show up. Quite a delayed effect.

So I'm guessing it would be safer to supplement tyrosine + NADH or L-phenylalanine. Patients with parkinson's are given a decarboxylase inhibitor known as carbidopa with levodopa to prevent it from being converted to dopamine before entering the brain, but it is only available by prescription and probably has some nasty side effects. I read somewhere that green tea and coffee contain small amounts of a weak decarboxylase inhibitor which is why some say it is better to take m.pruriens with green tea, but I'm having trouble verifying that now. This topic is somewhat discussed at the following link: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23668-boosting-dopamine-tyrosine-dlpa-or-mucuna-pruriens/

I agree with everything you said here, about the side effect of L-DOPA, and on NADH+tyrosine. I think NADH boost BH4 levels, which promote the process of phenylalanine->Tyrosine->L-DOPA in the brain. I do think tyrosine is superior to phenylalanine, because it will only consume 1 BH4 molecule to get L_DOPA, while  1 phenylalanine molecule will consume 2 BH4. And in the US and Europe, we probably already have too much phenylalanine in our diet, due to the wide use of aspartame, as in Diet-coke.

You're correct on all those points Romies. The BH4, role of NADH and the increasing amount of aspartame in our diets which requires more BH4 to process (to avoid subclinical PKU symptoms).

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Offline kurtosis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17992 on: 24/03/2013 16:38:01 »
Interesting. It seems creatine helps lower brain glutamate levels.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15672208
A friend of mine started using a whey protein with less creatine and increased glutamine and he said it made him feel jittery and gave him a dull headache.

Increased glutamate levels have been found in several neurological disorders including huntington's, autism and multiple sclerosis.  http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/128/5/1016.full.pdf

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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17993 on: 24/03/2013 16:49:41 »
So my two big questions currently are:

1- Why is my immune system so easily weakened to give way to viral infections almost every week, either from dormant viruses or new ones?
2- Why does sex seem to be a constant trigger for this condition?

I had similar experiences when I was younger and did not know methyl-guard, vitamin-D etc.

My hypothesis for your question 1 is that immune systems are weakened by too much histamine and too much mast cell activity, triggered by an orgasm. And that can be addressed with methylfolate,methylB-12 if you are an undermethylator.

Can you/anyone briefly explain what is the hypothetic mechanism for which histamine release and mast cell activation after an O can lead to a temporary immune system weakening, thus opening the gate to viral infections? I would expect an aggravation of allergic symptoms, but I can't see an obvious connection to a temporary weakness of immune defenses.

Also, I understand that improving methylation would help eliminate excess histamine, but would it help with mast cells stabilization too? I use quercetin during seasonal allergy peaks, and I can't say it helps very much with allergy symptoms, certainly not with POIS.

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Offline thereishope

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17994 on: 24/03/2013 17:41:28 »
LAPOISSE2,

Thank you for your acknowledgment; I'm talking from the simple fact that if we somehow find away to all work together we can move mountains! It's only normal that doctors don't take us seriously, they only see one of us at a time and that pois sufferer they see might be the only one they see in their lifetime. This is why in some of my previous posts I was looking for another pois sufferer in my area so that we can maybe work together in person. Regarding the research, I didn't know there was one for the end of the year; who is it conducted from?

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17995 on: 24/03/2013 17:53:39 »
Maybe. I've used acupuncture for the last 2 years. Not sure how much it's been effective, with all the things I'm doing.

Acupuncture might be an unnecessary risk. Seems overall the evidence is inconclusive. Also I heard about this in the news:

"A court in Switzerland has found a self-styled acupuncturist guilty of intentionally infecting 16 people with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS."
http://www.centredaily.com/2013/03/22/3549501/swiss-acupuncturist-convicted.html

This is a rare example, but still something to consider.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline thereishope

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17996 on: 24/03/2013 18:11:43 »
Hey guys, I'm trying to get someone's attention at McGill university; I have sent them a couple of e-mails in the past and never get replies. At this point all I want is to simply get an answer, even one that says ''sorry were not interested in helping you'' would be sufficient enough for me/us not to waste time and look somewhere else.
The following is the e-mail I usually copy and paste when I tried to contact McGill, I want to send one to someone else I found but before I send it to her I was hoping you guys can proof read it and maybe make it more effective!


E-mail:
To Marianna,

The purpose of my message is regarding McGill research. I would like to know if there is any interest in conducting research for a rare disorder names post-orgasmic-illness-syndrome (POIS). Symptoms of this abnormal disorder are falling sick and ill for one week after orgasm. I am one of the sufferers of this illness and as a result I've had a lot of closed doors from doctors in the past due to the fact that they find nothing wrong with my test results and also because they are unsure as to what might be causing my symtoms. So far I have done different blood tests, urine, as well as endocrine tests have been done and everything seems to be normal.

I believe research facilities such as this one probably gets emails like this all the time, however through forums and some medical websites out there have shown that there's an adequate amount of male sufferers out there that are equally looking for answers just as much as I am and perhaps the slightest support/help would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance for your consideration and your time, looking forward to your reply.

Sincerely yours,



If you think there something that can be improved feel free to help I'm open to suggestions, after all this e-mail is on behalf of all of us.

Thank you

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Offline Gbolduev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17997 on: 24/03/2013 18:12:51 »
I see interesting discussion going on here. You might  pay attention to manganese,  since   manganese  raises dopamine levels, and copper is manganese antаgonist.  Also I bet  many of you  have anemia like  shortness of breath after the orgasm.    Anything that  lifts sodium level will help with POIS I think,    it can be vitamin C , Vitamin E,   manganese,  B vitamins , copper.

Manganese can make you high as a kite though.)))) Dopamine  mineral to me. 
So since  you guys were talking about  dopamine,  I  had to add my  2 cents


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Offline urano75

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17998 on: 24/03/2013 18:48:06 »
Maybe. I've used acupuncture for the last 2 years. Not sure how much it's been effective, with all the things I'm doing.

Acupuncture might be an unnecessary risk. Seems overall the evidence is inconclusive. Also I heard about this in the news:

"A court in Switzerland has found a self-styled acupuncturist guilty of intentionally infecting 16 people with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS."
http://www.centredaily.com/2013/03/22/3549501/swiss-acupuncturist-convicted.html

This is a rare example, but still something to consider.

One might question acupuncture's effectiveness, meridians' existence and be skeptical on CTM, homeopathy, energetic medicine and alternative approaches in general.
This is based on personal experience and view of the world.
But I think that associating an entire discipline to the behavior of isolated criminals is not really fair.

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Offline Prancer

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #17999 on: 24/03/2013 20:11:35 »
The dopamine depletion theory seems like an obvious (read good) avenue to explore.

That was a very good & informative post B_Daniel. I completely agree that our symptoms closely match dopamine depletion.

How well (no pun) did the bupropion help you? Did you feel as good as you did when you tried the testosterone? (because I remember you were super excited, even though your good results were only short-lived sadly)

You're right about needing to spend more time figuring out root cause. (Totally 100% agree though! It feels so right.)
« Last Edit: 24/03/2013 20:20:27 by Prancer »