Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline MrVat7

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19500 on: 06/04/2014 14:24:06 »
To all TRTers .. have you experienced any minor/major side effects ?

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19501 on: 06/04/2014 14:50:47 »
To all TRTers .. have you experienced any minor/major side effects ?
Increased stress levels during the warmer months of the year but less so during the cooler months. More assertiveness & confidence & libido & strength then (mid autumn - mid spring). Some hair loss. Fat loss - all over including face. No acne but skin a little oilier. No roid rage, but sometimes higher frustration/irritation over annoyances - but I would not really call this a side effect as it had no negative issues for me. When I was was on 1 a month injection it see-sawed my libido - start of the month I was very horny (more Os but quicker recovery), near the end of the month - poor libido + erections issues (by the end of the month the injected T had worn off and my own natural T was suppressed due to the higher levels at start of month signalling my body to lower production + also probably higher estrogen levels relating to the spike in T earlier in the month. My testicles would feel cold at the end of the month and pois was definitely worse. Stable levels are totally the way to go.
Before I went on TRT, I had suffered from dandruff (linked to pois somewhat) and this disappeared (great!) Also my levels of anxiousness & self consciousness (linked to pois) reduced, but really only when I went up to the higher levels.
« Last Edit: 06/04/2014 14:54:15 by acronym »

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Offline fornicationDENIED2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19502 on: 06/04/2014 16:10:41 »
Personal ancedotes: TRT has cured my POIS.
......

FD, that's a pretty high dosage of T. Is your doctor prescribing you this amount or are you undertaking this on your own?
the cypionate ester if I remember right has a short half life, so you will need more frequent injections,but that is still a high dose, from a 'conventional' medical perspective. I am on Testosterone Ethanate (longer half life) and am currently at 100mg a week, which is higher than what my doctor wanted, but I feel better for it and have never scored high on T blood tests (with just T injections).

When I was originally put on T shots it was a once a month injection, and that screwed me up - way too much fluctuation, and my pois got worse. I split my doses up and increased the amount I was taking and I was a lot better for it. I did this then told my doctor and he reluctantly went along with it. The official doctors drug manual for Sustan250 for instance still recommends once a month injection. I found I was struggling by day 18 and when I had blood tests on say around day 10-12, my levels were at 1/4 of the normal range.  I have experimented with T by taking high doses at your levels and had mixed results. In the cooler months of the year I felt better for it and put on weight and my pois was less. In the warmer months of the year it seemed to make no difference. I had increased stress levels & more hair loss though. Its weird and very very frustrating. The only time I put on weight is in the cooler months. I still lose weight in the summer even during the times I was on 100mg+/week.

I took an OTC anti aromatase + also herbs. I did not experience any gyno, but some people are less susceptible. I have low body fat levels.  When I trialled 200mg/week, I took Clomid when I dropped my T intake back to lower levels, and I cant say I noticed anything, but then I did not crash so it could have been doing its job well. I did not get any T blood tests to verify my levels at this time.

I had good results with the herb TongkatAli which boosts LH ( and maybe also FSH levels) and testosterone a number of years ago. I have since tried it a few more times but have been disappointed. This is a potent herb and grown only in limited part of the word and there is a lot of bogus/weak product out there now being marketed. I feel this would be a good herb for some pois'ers to try. Unfortunately I cannot recommended a good source. It very expensive now too. I have asked a couple of my doctors about trying Clomid or Pregnyl to increase my natural T levels but they are not interested.

I also experimented by taking Nandrolone as well as Testosterone (lower dose - 60mg/week) and found taking the two together to be more potent at the equivalent dose of just testosterone. (blood test for T levels showed me at the top end of normal for the first time in my life) My pois was much better too, however like the comment I made earlier about T being more beneficial for me during the cooler months, it is the same story when I take T & N, alas.  My pois has always been less in the cooler months even before I took any supplements. I can't remember anyone else here saying there was a seasonal component to pois. Around the same time I got pois I got chemical sensitivities + food intolerances. I tested at very high on IgE levels (related to allergies) and strong reaction to many grasses (even though I don't get hayfever anymore - that stopped when I got pois). I wonder if the grasses which are high except in the cooler months are impacting badly on my immunity/endocrine system...even though I don't have hayfever.

I cannot comment on pois in relation to my IGF-1 levels, as I have never had a good IGF-1 reading. I have below normal IGF-1. Same with DHEA.  There certainly could be a connection though.

Is your doctor prescribing you this amount or are you undertaking this on your own?  More like 50/50, the problem is, there is a depopulation and anti male agenda, and if I lower my dose and it does not work anymore I will get a hard time getting to the place I used to be. Besides, I am not experiencing side effects. Test cypionate has a 8 day half life I believe.

I think I read somewhere that low DHEA is an indicator of high cortisol and high cortisol would explain the low IGF- 1. I also read that increasing DHEA would suppress cortisol, which is why I experimented with DHEA supplements. You can also try HGH(human grwoth hormone) which will solve the IGF1 issue and will add some extra benefits like increased dose dependent collagen synthesis including other anti aging benefits. But there is a witch hunt againt HGH sadly which makes it hard to get (plus it is expensive as F...) Circulating IGF-1 is generated by the liver under the control of growth hormone (GH). The binding of GH with its hepatic receptor stimulates expression and release of IGF-1 peptide in the circulation, which has high affinity for IGFBPs, and represents the endocrine form of IGF-1
but that thing is very useful to the point that it would have regenerated my ulcerated intestines in weeks. IGF-1 is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT ,IGF-1 supports cellular division and growth to the muscles and organs among other things, you have to fix that quick.


 IGF-1– can induce reduction in oxidative stress, cell apoptosis, proinflammatory signaling, and endothelial dysfunction. Aging is associated with increased vascular oxidative stress and vascular disease, suggesting that IGF-1 may exert salutary effects on vascular aging processes.

Hypertension is a major risk factor for atherosclerosis, and aging influences the prevalence of hypertension, whereas aging by itself appears insufficient to induce hypertension (168,169). As described above, IGF-1 increases endothelial NO production; hence, a major part of IGF-1 effects on vascular tone regulation can be attributed to eNOS–NO dependent mechanisms. In addition, insulin/IGF-1 reduces [Ca2+]i and Ca2+-MLC sensitivity in VSMC (170,171), thereby inducing vascular relaxation.

http://biomedgerontology.oxfordjournals.org/content/67A/6/626.full [nofollow]

If you are interested I will post more studies later .
« Last Edit: 06/04/2014 16:42:38 by fornicationDENIED2 »

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Offline fornicationDENIED2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19503 on: 06/04/2014 16:31:19 »
To all TRTers .. have you experienced any minor/major side effects ?

Well, the problem whit testosterone is that there is alot of misinformation particularly the fear mongering from the media.

I know what you truly are concerned about hahahaha, and the answer is no, TRT will not decrease the size of your ... how do I put this without getting banned... gentleman's sausage. I have personally experienced an increase in 0.5 inches in length and more girth but not enough to live my POIS free life as a pornstar sadly.

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Offline meteo74

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19504 on: 06/04/2014 18:03:48 »
Hi everyone,

I found this thread after realizing I had POIS. It was getting worse for me over time and now that I have a girlfriend my symptoms were really showing up.

I would feel tired/achy/grumpy for a day or two after sleeping with her, and the more we slept together the worse it got. It felt like a hangover from a really bad night of drinking.

I tried taking more vitamins, changing my sleep/exercise routines/, not watching porn anymore, etc., which all helped but never solved the problem.

Finally what worked for me was getting off of gluten. My POIS that I've had for many years vanished!

I just wanted to log in and share my experience in case it helps anybody searching for an answer. I know I got to the point where I was willing to try anything that might have helped, so here's another thing to try.

Good luck to everyone.

Sincerely,
Seth


hi sethlessness
what does gluten mean,i look for it in google translation but can't understand ,would you say some,and how many years were you in pois..
thank.

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Offline MrVat7

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19505 on: 07/04/2014 02:21:23 »
What Testosterone dosage do you take TRTers ?

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Offline MrVat7

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19506 on: 08/04/2014 12:05:00 »
I am starting TRT .
Dosage- 250mg Sustanone once a week. anastrazole 1mg daily,and  tablet Finasteride 1 mg daily.

Any expert advice or suggestion guys ?

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19507 on: 09/04/2014 12:00:14 »
Hello to all of you,

I've been investigated the gluten lead recently and I think there is something :

-First of all, there is different testimony of people flaming that there are pretty much POIS free since they eliminate the gluten from their diet

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1240.0 [nofollow]

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=387.msg10629#msg10629 [nofollow]


Seth recently :

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.19475 [nofollow]

-Some people have been diagnosed with gluten allergy(kurtosis, urano, etc)

-If you read about gluten intolerance/sensitivity, you find out that there is tons of potential symptoms ; it's due to the fact that (i) gluten triggers autoimmune reaction with the typical symptoms of it and that it can cause malabsorption and deficiency(of amino acid/vitamins/minerals) that lead to various symptoms and can explain the fatigue and the cognitive impairments.

-One the promising "cure" some year ago was multivitamin program ; helped a lot ; It's not surprising if we have deficiency and potentially lead to digestion problem.

-Some people I've talked with doesn't get weight easily and I'have read in POIS forum that they have greasy/sticky faeces and digestion problem : it's typical if gluten intolerance is involved ; we don't digest fat.

I believe that Orgasm/sexual activity just trigger/worsen an underlining problem ; It's maybe a mistake to focus on O.

Nevertheless, there is a link between potentially digestion and Orgasm...and this could be the Vagus nerve(object of the ongoing POIS research).

Personally I will verify that lead and going to a strict non gluten diet for at least 2 month

good luck fellow poiser's

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19508 on: 09/04/2014 12:25:41 »
That is interesting too ; the part I like the most is :

"interesting fact that her problems were not constant, indicating that basically her brain was intact but something seemed to be detrimentally influencing her from time to time, causing her to have these significant issues with respect to how her brain functioned. In considering what factors change day to day in terms of someone's exposure, certainly diet is at the top of the list"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-david-perlmutter-md/gluten-impacts-the-brain_b_785901.html [nofollow]

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Offline Kima

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19509 on: 09/04/2014 15:36:47 »
LAPOISSE2

I fully agree with you!

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Offline Kima

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19510 on: 09/04/2014 15:42:46 »
vagus nerve

Treatment. Analgesics for pain relief used in combination with antihistamines, anesthetics (0.5% novocaine solution intravenously), B vitamins (cyanocobalamin - 1000 mcg and thiamine chloride - 1 ml of 0.5% solution intramuscularly every other day). Of physiotherapy appointment effectively diadynamic currents pain radiating portion. 

Treatment. B vitamins, stimulants, neostigmine (0.015 g), atropine (1 ml of 0.1% solution subcutaneously). When the etiology of diphtheria - large doses of diphtheria serum

Maybe that's why vitamins helps people?

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Offline Kima

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19511 on: 09/04/2014 15:46:30 »
Pois syndrome are very similar to nerve disease . Likely sperm touches a nerve and so we get these symptoms

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Offline MrVat7

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19512 on: 09/04/2014 17:12:42 »
Sounds possible kima.

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Offline fornicationDENIED2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19513 on: 09/04/2014 23:39:00 »
I am starting TRT .
Dosage- 250mg Sustanone once a week. anastrazole 1mg daily,and  tablet Finasteride 1 mg daily.

Any expert advice or suggestion guys ?
I would not take Finasteride if I was you because DHT is not exactly as dangerous and destructive as estrogen can be . First you must get a blood test (a couple of days after injection, but I would wait around 3 weeks of treatment before testing, also do not test yourself at the testosterone peak which is around the 2 or 3 day but on the 4th or 5 day)  to see if DHT is outside the range , and or experience detrimental DHT side effects, then take it. Finasteride side effects include impotence, loss of sex drive(obviously caused by low DHT, can't prove if you are POIS free if that happens hahaha), it could (not guaranteed)  also cause anxiety and depression.
 Anastrozole binds reversibly to the aromatase enzyme through competitive inhibition, meaning once daily makes sense but if you need to lower dosage try a formula like 0.5mg daily, since this drug has short lasting effects and keep in mind your estrogen cant be zero or extremely low, since it can cause fatigue and other side effects.
« Last Edit: 09/04/2014 23:55:55 by fornicationDENIED2 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19514 on: 10/04/2014 01:10:28 »

I am starting TRT .
Dosage- 250mg Sustanone once a week. anastrazole 1mg daily,and  tablet Finasteride 1 mg daily.

Any expert advice or suggestion guys ?


[Former Moderator visiting periodically]

I recommend to anyone contemplating TRT for your POIS: discuss infertility risks carefully with your doctor!!!!

« Last Edit: 10/04/2014 03:54:59 by demografx »

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Offline MrVat7

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19515 on: 10/04/2014 05:45:29 »

I am starting TRT .
Dosage- 250mg Sustanone once a week. anastrazole 1mg daily,and  tablet Finasteride 1 mg daily.

Any expert advice or suggestion guys ?




[Former Moderator visiting periodically]

I recommend to anyone contemplating TRT for your POIS: discuss infertility risks carefully with your doctor!!!!


Ive discussed this with my doctor. He says that injecting sustanone 250 till 6 weeks will bring sperm count to zero ( ie azoospermia ) and then if I stop taking injections sperm count would recover within 9 months.

I am still 18 so do not have to produce kids. So no worry.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19516 on: 10/04/2014 05:55:04 »
[Former Moderator visiting periodically]

Excellent! [:)]

« Last Edit: 10/04/2014 05:57:55 by demografx »

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19517 on: 11/04/2014 09:18:23 »
Hi everyone,

I found this thread after realizing I had POIS. It was getting worse for me over time and now that I have a girlfriend my symptoms were really showing up.

I would feel tired/achy/grumpy for a day or two after sleeping with her, and the more we slept together the worse it got. It felt like a hangover from a really bad night of drinking.

I tried taking more vitamins, changing my sleep/exercise routines/, not watching porn anymore, etc., which all helped but never solved the problem.

Finally what worked for me was getting off of gluten. My POIS that I've had for many years vanished!

I just wanted to log in and share my experience in case it helps anybody searching for an answer. I know I got to the point where I was willing to try anything that might have helped, so here's another thing to try.

Good luck to everyone.

Sincerely,
Seth

Hey All,

Nobody care about that ? We're all desperately trying to find a cure, someone show up saying that eliminating something from its regimen(not a big deal) kinda cured him and nobody make attention to it..
I know we've had many "magic cure" but believe me there is many other case and malabosption induce disease is not like breathing with right nostril or swallowing some magic  chinese herb...All the guys that talked about gluten problem in here never came back ; As we said in France, No news : good news

It just makes a lot of sense, digestion is the entrance door of our complete health...what you put in your mouth make you healthy or not.We are all looking for a root cause of our problem, this could be one.If your deficient is minerals or vitamins, all the system is screwed and orgasm could just be the spark. Gluten can be the root cause of many disease, POIS could be of them

Please guys, react to this, don't be blind...there is no certitude at all, but it definitely worth to investigate.

And if you have time, read about what is gluten intolerance

This is one of many article about it :

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-7482/10-signs-youre-gluten-intolerant.html [nofollow]`

By the way, do we any chinese or japanese here ? Saw 1 chinese in 3 years of looking at the forums...Why ? Maybe because they have no gluten at all in their diet
« Last Edit: 11/04/2014 10:18:12 by LAPOISSE2 »

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19518 on: 11/04/2014 09:31:40 »
This one also is ver very interesting :

http://chriskresser.com/50-shades-of-gluten-intolerance [nofollow]

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Offline gpg

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19519 on: 14/04/2014 00:12:53 »
hi guys,
Although I do not have POIS, I think that I may be able to throw some light on where to focus or investigate to track down the source of the problem.
Actually, I have the symptoms of POIS all the time, and always have had, which is why I found this forum.
But my symptoms are caused by life-long bilateral tumours of my adrenal glands, also known as pheochromocytoma (PCC), usually benign, but which release large quantities of adrenaline (epinephrine) into the bloodstream, either continuously or intermittently.
This is all very new to me too, and not fully-confirmed because I am still working through the full suite of tests and imaging studies for PCC. Initial imaging studies show a tumour within each adrenal gland and I have all the classic symptoms of PCC.
Its a pretty rare condition and one autopsy study found that 75% of patients die without being diagnosed - usually having been labelled "crazy".
It seems quite plausible to me that sexual arousal, activity and orgasm is triggering the release of a large adrenaline hit and causing POIS in susceptible men.
Do any of you guys have secreting adrenal tumours? Probably not, but I would suggest that the adrenal glands are at the pathophysiological centre of POIS whatever the actual pathological mechanism.
I read that some of you guys have had lots of standard blood tests, including hormonal ones too, like testosterone. But, unless you specifically have an endocrinologist, who actually suspects PCC, it is highly unlikely that you have had the blood and urine tests which will link POIS to the adrenal glands. Very often, even in PCC patients, the blood testing does not pick it up for various reasons, so the blood tests are backed up with 24 hour adrenaline in urine testing. Anyone on here done the latter?
Excessive adrenaline release really messes around with your blood pressure and heart rate for quite a long time afterwards so these physical correlates could offer some objective evidence for POIS. It messes with your brain too, as you know from experience, but that is more subjective.
Has anyone with POIS been regularly using a personal blood pressure and heart rate monitor? I would highly advise every POIS patient to buy an automatic one (battery-operated) not a manual one. They are available very cheaply everywhere. I use a wrist-mounted one rather than upper arm which are a lot smaller and less cumbersome to use. Most have a memory for around 60 to 100 readings. Just remember that when you take a reading with a wrist monitor your wrist must be on the same level as your heart. All the information that you need on this post will be found in the monitor instruction manual.
I would start by taking blood pressure readings when you are feeling well ie. after a week or two without sexual activity. Take two readings at rest - one after you have been lying horizontal for 5 minutes or more and then stand up and immediately take another reading and repeat this through the day. If you are well, then both your readings should be in normal range as advised on the monitor. When you stand up, you should get a similar blood pressure or maybe a lower one to the horizontal, but definitely not a higher one (ie. orthostatic hypertension).
Then, after orgasm, start taking regular readings when horizontal and immediately after standing up. Remember to keep your wrist at heart level when reading standing up.
Does your blood pressure remain in normal range after orgasm? Only when horizontal? Only when vertical? Or both? If your blood pressure increases after standing up then that is a red flag for excess adrenaline release.
Keep an eye on your heart rate during the readings too - is the monitor alerting any heart rate increases above normal?
Make a note of any headaches against the readings - rate the severity of the headaches. You might even have a continuous low-level headache during the days after orgasm?
Write down the dates and times of the blood pressure/heart readings from the monitor memory on to a calendar - is there a pattern over the days after orgasm? Anything noteworthy?
Ultimately, is there a similar pattern found in all POIS patients?
Well, I really hope you guys find this post useful. I am as interested in POIS as you are.
I will stay on the forum and reply to any responses - or any private emails.
It would be really fascinating to generate some medical data on POIS with this approach.
regards
gpg

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19520 on: 14/04/2014 11:06:27 »
hi guys,
Although I do not have POIS, I think that I may be able to throw some light on where to focus or investigate to track down the source of the problem.
Actually, I have the symptoms of POIS all the time, and always have had, which is why I found this forum.
But my symptoms are caused by life-long bilateral tumours of my adrenal glands, also known as pheochromocytoma (PCC), usually benign, but which release large quantities of adrenaline (epinephrine) into the bloodstream, either continuously or intermittently.
This is all very new to me too, and not fully-confirmed because I am still working through the full suite of tests and imaging studies for PCC. Initial imaging studies show a tumour within each adrenal gland and I have all the classic symptoms of PCC.
Its a pretty rare condition and one autopsy study found that 75% of patients die without being diagnosed - usually having been labelled "crazy".
It seems quite plausible to me that sexual arousal, activity and orgasm is triggering the release of a large adrenaline hit and causing POIS in susceptible men.
Do any of you guys have secreting adrenal tumours? Probably not, but I would suggest that the adrenal glands are at the pathophysiological centre of POIS whatever the actual pathological mechanism.
I read that some of you guys have had lots of standard blood tests, including hormonal ones too, like testosterone. But, unless you specifically have an endocrinologist, who actually suspects PCC, it is highly unlikely that you have had the blood and urine tests which will link POIS to the adrenal glands. Very often, even in PCC patients, the blood testing does not pick it up for various reasons, so the blood tests are backed up with 24 hour adrenaline in urine testing. Anyone on here done the latter?
Excessive adrenaline release really messes around with your blood pressure and heart rate for quite a long time afterwards so these physical correlates could offer some objective evidence for POIS. It messes with your brain too, as you know from experience, but that is more subjective.
Has anyone with POIS been regularly using a personal blood pressure and heart rate monitor? I would highly advise every POIS patient to buy an automatic one (battery-operated) not a manual one. They are available very cheaply everywhere. I use a wrist-mounted one rather than upper arm which are a lot smaller and less cumbersome to use. Most have a memory for around 60 to 100 readings. Just remember that when you take a reading with a wrist monitor your wrist must be on the same level as your heart. All the information that you need on this post will be found in the monitor instruction manual.
I would start by taking blood pressure readings when you are feeling well ie. after a week or two without sexual activity. Take two readings at rest - one after you have been lying horizontal for 5 minutes or more and then stand up and immediately take another reading and repeat this through the day. If you are well, then both your readings should be in normal range as advised on the monitor. When you stand up, you should get a similar blood pressure or maybe a lower one to the horizontal, but definitely not a higher one (ie. orthostatic hypertension).
Then, after orgasm, start taking regular readings when horizontal and immediately after standing up. Remember to keep your wrist at heart level when reading standing up.
Does your blood pressure remain in normal range after orgasm? Only when horizontal? Only when vertical? Or both? If your blood pressure increases after standing up then that is a red flag for excess adrenaline release.
Keep an eye on your heart rate during the readings too - is the monitor alerting any heart rate increases above normal?
Make a note of any headaches against the readings - rate the severity of the headaches. You might even have a continuous low-level headache during the days after orgasm?
Write down the dates and times of the blood pressure/heart readings from the monitor memory on to a calendar - is there a pattern over the days after orgasm? Anything noteworthy?
Ultimately, is there a similar pattern found in all POIS patients?
Well, I really hope you guys find this post useful. I am as interested in POIS as you are.
I will stay on the forum and reply to any responses - or any private emails.
It would be really fascinating to generate some medical data on POIS with this approach.
regards
gpg

Hey, My doc thought I had these to because I was doing a bit of tachicardia ; I've tested my BP for a month and tested the blood and urine catecholamines and all was pretty normal..

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Offline acronym

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19521 on: 14/04/2014 12:10:43 »
gpg - thanks for that interesting post.
Q - Did having an orgasm make any difference for you, having PCC (I would have thought it would have)?
Q - Were you underweight and had great difficulty putting on weight?
Q - Did you have headaches most days of the week?
Q - Were you up and down between 'wired & anxious' and 'exhausted & brain foggy'?

I have never had high BP. In fact I was on the low side for many years and normal blood glucose levels, and lack of sweating as opposed to excessive sweating, but ticked the other symptoms. cheers
« Last Edit: 14/04/2014 12:15:20 by acronym »

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Offline MrVat7

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19522 on: 14/04/2014 12:56:18 »
Do Poisers feel symptoms in summer ?

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Offline Colmik

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19523 on: 14/04/2014 16:31:29 »
After the vast amount of information given in this thread, I don't suppose this post will be of any value, but I'll throw it into the ring in case it sparks an idea ion somebody's mind.

I had a PSA test a few months ago.  PSA = Prostate Specific Antigen - an indicator for prostate cancer.
My count was 3.8, which was said to be safe for my age (less than 4.0), but I was still a bit concerned, as my previous count, a couple of years ago, was 2.0.   I was told that the reading is most reliable if it is not taken within three days of an orgasm.

So it seems that it takes several days for PSA levels to settle down.  Could that be connected with the subject of this thread?

Oh, well, I said it probably wasn't important!

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Offline gpg

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19524 on: 15/04/2014 00:19:20 »
gpg - thanks for that interesting post.
Q - Did having an orgasm make any difference for you, having PCC (I would have thought it would have)?
Q - Were you underweight and had great difficulty putting on weight?
Q - Did you have headaches most days of the week?
Q - Were you up and down between 'wired & anxious' and 'exhausted & brain foggy'?

I have never had high BP. In fact I was on the low side for many years and normal blood glucose levels, and lack of sweating as opposed to excessive sweating, but ticked the other symptoms. cheers

hi acronym and lapoisse2
I will start by answering acronyms questions. (PCC is pheochromocytoma adrenal gland tumour).
A - Yes your thought is correct - I assumed the question of my orgasm would be first. Firstly, my orgasm is a phenomenally heightened experience - I am presuming much more so than normal. Obviously, I did not realise this until very recently - I presumed everyone felt like they got hit with a sledgehammer. A powerful initial sensation but not being put physically/mentally out of action for an extended period of time like you guys - because my health is like that all the time, even before the orgasm.
I would think that a small amount of adrenaline release during orgasm is normal but not a large, excessive, release, which is what I think is happening, in isolation, in PIOS - rather than the continuous excess of PCC.
However, as you all describe, there is no choice about whether to have a regular orgasm or not because the sensation of continually craving an orgasm is unbearable. This is why I am locked into this cycle too. I think this whole scenario has something to do with adrenaline de-sensitisation of the cell receptors due to the regularly occurring excess adrenaline. Our cells crave the adrenaline due to their adrenaline de-sensitisation but that additional release from orgasm just makes everything else worse afterwards - or in my case, the same as always. De-sensitisation of cell adrenaline receptors is a proven phenomenon in PCC.
A - Yes - I am underweight for my height because I do have difficulty putting on weight. Apparently, this is due to the adrenaline speeding up the metabolism and burning off food intake too quickly. I have to eat four high calorie meals per day just to remain underweight and that is without doing any exertion or exercise.
A - Yes - I have had a continuous low level headache since before I can remember but I am only understanding this now. Then, in the past year, I have started having regular adrenal crisis where headache pain is unbearable and  horrific. This lasts for around 2 hours and my blood pressure goes up to 150 with hot sweating flushes.
A - That last question describes my brain scenario exactly. Years ago, I once said to the doctor that my brain is either "racing" with unstoppable thoughts or completely "dead" to all thought - there was no normal balance. I really believed that this would give the doctor some obvious clue to what disease I had. But, of course, when you say something like this, you come across as a manic-depressive or having a somatic disorder ie, either way just crazy. I think the racing thought is the effect of the initial excess adrenaline release and the dead brain is the adrenaline hogging the cell receptors for an extended time, in place of other brain chemicals needed for normal brain function.

I was also told that I had low BP for years. But BP is always taken at rest sitting down - never after rising to a standing position - where raised BP against lying horizontal is the tell-tale sign.
Also, when was your BP taken in relation to the timing of your orgasm - BP may only be higher in the hours and days following orgasm?

This brings me to Lalpoisse2 comments that he has had 24 hour urine testing for catecholamines (adrenalines).  Was this done by an endocrinologist or your family doctor request? Was this done in the 24 hours after orgasm? This urine test is based on PCC where urine levels are usually high on any day. And, PIOS is not PCC. It will have its own pathology. No one currently knows the best way or time to detect the adrenaline release in PIOS. Even in PPC, it can take a dogged endocrinologist to persevere and get the testing right, especially if tests are initially coming back negative for various reasons. And, if you do not already have demonstrated tumours on imaging, most doctors will accept those false negative results because it is difficult to justify continued testing on a hunch, particularly when you are saying that you have PIOS.

Sweating is another interesting one because inappropriate sweating is one of the so-called diagnostic triad of PCC signs during an adrenal crisis - the others being unbearable headache (requiring morphine) and high BP. Yet sweating is the most variable sign among PCC patients.
Before a year ago, I also did very little sweating but now I get random bouts of hot flushes and sweating for no reason (inappropriately). However, I have always sweated inappropriately during very minor bouts of physical exertion - which also comes with feeling very unwell. So, you need to think about when and how you start to sweat. It is more like an inappropriate pattern of sweating behaviour, I think. Its not about normal appropriate sweating but the sign of your body sweating due to excess adrenaline - so for PCC patients that means during minor exertion, or an adrenal crisis, or during hot weather (which PCC patients avoid).

Thank you for the interesting questions - I hope I have answered them relevantly.

regards
gpg

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Offline gondal4

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19525 on: 15/04/2014 09:12:45 »
do any of u have difficulty/pain having hot tea,cofee,hot soup etc after orgasm? i have developed this problem too

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Offline gondal4

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19526 on: 15/04/2014 14:59:58 »
And yes i have normally high bp 160 and above since childhood and bad sweat and  mental problems like racing thoughts and dull brain from last 2 years

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Offline gpg

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19527 on: 15/04/2014 17:09:38 »
And yes i have normally high bp 160 and above since childhood and bad sweat and  mental problems like racing thoughts and dull brain from last 2 years
hi gondal
In your case, being ill since childhood, you must get a CT or MRI scan of your adrenal glands to check for pheochromocytoma (PCC). There are specific adrenal gland scan protocols which find them.
I dont know where you live but I would pay for one if you can afford it - like I did - rather than trying to convince your health system to pay for one - its a lot less stressful.
If the scans find tumours in your adrenal glands then you will then get the blood/urine and heart testing that you need because you are PCC symptomatic.
Good luck - let us know.
gpg

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19528 on: 16/04/2014 00:42:32 »
[Former Moderator visiting periodically]


I am starting TRT .
Dosage- 250mg Sustanone once a week. anastrazole 1mg daily,and  tablet Finasteride 1 mg daily.

Any expert advice or suggestion guys ?


Periodic ingestion of testosterone did NOT work for me.

In my case I started with injectable testosterone: it didn't work (for me)

According to my endocrinologist, DAILY testosterone patches -- or testosterone gel -- are the way to go for me. Why? His expert opinion is that daily patches or gel best mimic the natural way that testosterone courses through our body. Periodics -- such as injectables -- run counter to the natural method in that they "spike" in and out of our systems, summarizing for you what my endo said to me.

« Last Edit: 16/04/2014 00:47:22 by demografx »

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Offline MrVat7

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19529 on: 16/04/2014 07:27:26 »
[Former Moderator visiting periodically]


I am starting TRT .
Dosage- 250mg Sustanone once a week. anastrazole 1mg daily,and  tablet Finasteride 1 mg daily.

Any expert advice or suggestion guys ?


Periodic ingestion of testosterone did NOT work for me.

In my case I started with injectable testosterone: it didn't work (for me)

According to my endocrinologist, DAILY testosterone patches -- or testosterone gel -- are the way to go for me. Why? His expert opinion is that daily patches or gel best mimic the natural way that testosterone courses through our body. Periodics -- such as injectables -- run counter to the natural method in that they "spike" in and out of our systems, summarizing for you what my endo said to me.



Yes but taking testosterone patches or Tgels increase the chance of side effect such as gynecomastia.. as more of aromatase enzyme are located near muscle and fat cells .. my andrologist said that sustanone 250 has long half life esters.. and it should be injected deep inside.. so less chances of having side effects.. and i dont know why injectables didnt worked for you .. what dosage were you taking ? and which ester ?

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Offline Jonas STHLM

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19530 on: 16/04/2014 08:59:45 »
I have tried testosterone patches for over 4 years-no difference.

I have tried a diary and gluten free diet for a very long time also-no difference.

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Offline Jonas STHLM

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19531 on: 16/04/2014 09:08:35 »
I like to come in contact with other poisers in Sweden so the rest of my message will be in Swedish.

Hej allihopa, jag har varit i kontakt med Stefan Arver som är docent och överläkare på karolinska sjukhuset och specialiserad på andrologi och sexualmedicin. Han kommer att ta kontakt med Waldinger, men även de forskarna på Rutgers universitet som skall genomföra forskningen på vårat problem. Han är intresserad av att hitta en lösning och jag tror att det kan vara en bra ide att höra av sig till honom, ju mer vi är desto större är chansen att vi får hjälp även på hemmaplan. Kontakta mig för hans mejladress.

Tack för hjälpen,

Jonas

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Offline gpg

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19532 on: 16/04/2014 10:35:54 »
hi guys
The adrenal glands also secrete the sex hormones. Although the adrenal glands are not the primary site of sex hormone secretion, if there is a problem with the adrenal glands and periodic excess adrenaline secretion, then this will mess with your sex hormones.
In this situation, the sex hormones are a symptom of POIS, not the cause. Treating sex hormone symptoms may or may not lead to improvement of POIS. The central issue of excess adrenaline release is not being addressed.
Although the initial hit of excess adrenaline release occurs just after orgasm and is rapidly cleared from the bloodstream, it is the extended length of time that adrenaline remains docked in the cell receptors of just about every cell in the body that would explain the "post" in POIS. The functioning of those cells is disrupted and messes up all the normal hormone levels.
This appears to be the reason that sustained-release testosterone patches are the most effective because the
release needs to be continuous to ameliorate the sustained effects of the initial excess adrenaline release.
regards
gpg

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Offline Scarysheep

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19533 on: 17/04/2014 02:23:27 »
Hello, everybody. I found this forum a few months ago, but have only now decided to post.

I figure I better introduce myself first:
    My symptoms include: Fatigue, sleepiness- even with over 12 hours of sleep, joint/muscle pain, general discomfort, dry lips/hands, irritability, loss of social skills, loss of concentration and ability to recall a passage after I've read it, shakiness, sticky/sandy feeling eyes, shallow breathing and constant feeling of coldness.
    My symptoms start immediately after orgasm and grow in intensity over days one and two, and remain constant through day five. On day 6, they taper off throughout the day and by nighttime on day 6, I feel wonderful. It takes about 12 days to recover entirely.
    I am 17 years old and have had these symptoms as long as I can remember and they are absolutely debilitating. I've had several blood tests done, none of which yielded meaningful results except a high-ish prolactin level, which I've been taking wellbutin for 3 days now with no relief of symptoms yet, though from what I've read hear, I'm not optimistic. I take 250 mg flush Niacin daily before bed, which takes the edge off the shakiness and weird eye feeling, but at the cost of drymouth. The unpredictability of nocturnal emissions is the bane of my existence and has equal effect as intentional orgasm (which I've pretty much given up entirely).
    Things I've noticed: When I take niacin while feeling pois, the flush does not cover entirely like normal, its patchy, as if the blood flow is not as it normal is. I've been experimenting with gluten-free for the last 3 days; no conclusive results yet, but I almost feel an improvement already. I'll continue experimenting with this for a few more days or weeks, depending on improvement. My sitting blood pressure is normal, but (at least at the doctor's office), my standing blood pressure was high.
    Interesting note: I measure my pois days by how well I can play my trombone. The bad days, I can barely play well, but on good days, I'm amazing- like got one of the top scholarship spots for my state's best music school good. I want to be able to pursue a career in music, but this condition is so bad it may end up ruining me.

That's pretty much all I've got. Please feel free to ask me questions or for specifics and I'll try to get back to you! I truly believe we can get to the bottom of this medical mystery. If there's anything you recommend I try please to not hesitate to suggest it.

hi guys
...etc.
gpg
Also, Mr. gpg, how would you recommend I start looking into your adrenaline based solution, since I have some blood pressure issues and you seem to have a good lead here?
« Last Edit: 17/04/2014 02:39:45 by Scarysheep »

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Offline gpg

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19534 on: 17/04/2014 12:36:08 »
hi ScarySheep
Once again, you have had these problems since childhood, and you are only 17, so you definitely need to get an MRI scan of you abdomen, looking for adrenal gland tumours. It is essential that you rule this out (or in), including other vital organ issues which could be picked up, otherwise you could waste many years of your life without knowing for sure.
Getting a single area (abdomen)  MRI scan privately is pretty straight-forward and not too expensive - plus many places do not ask for a doctors referral - you can self refer. A CT scan is more difficult because it uses x-ray radiation and most private imaging companies will request a doctors referral to justify this. Also, you need a special type of CT scan but only a standard MRI to pick up any tumours. So, if you are self referring, an MRI is the best way to go.
Once again, your blood pressure is increasing when you stand up (orthostatic hypertension), and that is a red flag for the existence of adrenal gland dysfunction and/or PCC tumour.
Ask your doctor how he is going to investigate your orthostatic hypertension. Your doctor found this himself so he can not dismiss it.
Tell him that you would like an MRI scan of your adrenal glands either through him - if refused go privately. Have the scan done immediately - no matter what other action is taken.
Tell him that you are experiencing symptoms consistent with excess adrenaline release and that you would like to be referred to an endocrinologist.
The reason that you are able to feel much better periodically is because the adrenaline is finally letting go of the cell receptors that it is hogging on every cell in your body. Once those receptors are cleared then you feel "normal" again.
Let us know.
good luck
gpg

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Offline fornicationDENIED2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19535 on: 27/04/2014 21:56:49 »
I have increased the frequency of ejaculation and noticed the war is not over. I am still having hyperprolactemia (caused by the prednisone induced cushing's syndrome) is still causing issues, I was initially denied treatment despite having the prolactin levels of a woman because I was still inside the stupid range because apparently doctors are either too dumb to realize that despite being inside the range a real man should NOT have prolactin that high, or avoiding a possible lawsuit at my expense by denying treatment. I now have to make the decision to masturbate before my next prolactin test, or be honest and live with this curse till I die because of absurd antiquated protocols, not a hard choice to make if health and fornication is on the line. Keep in mind I have tried everything else in my reach to try to reduce prolactin without dopamine agonists yet failed miserably. I was hoping to avoid those dopamine agonists drugs because of their side effects but it seems I have no other choice.

If you have a 24 to 48 hours or more refractory period if you cant have an erection despite being young and healthy I advice getting prolactin levels checked.
« Last Edit: 27/04/2014 22:02:07 by fornicationDENIED2 »

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Offline Thapelo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19536 on: 03/05/2014 12:13:28 »
Do Poisers feel symptoms in summer ?


I do not MrVat7, at least it is significantly less than in the winter.
Especially feeling depressed/down is reduced in the summer compared with the winter


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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19537 on: 11/05/2014 16:03:01 »
poiscenter.com seems to be down. When I try to access it I just get this message:

"Notice: This domain name expired on 05/09/14 and is pending renewal or deletion".

Anyone else getting this also? This is very worrying to me.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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johanstefansson

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19538 on: 11/05/2014 19:01:15 »
having had tinnitus for quite some time, 17 years, I today read about levels of adrenalin, how tinnitus increases levels of adrenalin.

also said sex creates spikes in adrenalin.

your thoughts about this?

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Offline Vincent M

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19539 on: 11/05/2014 23:11:11 »
Nevermind. Seems to be back up now. Odd.
Taking fenugreek+tea/garlic, saw palmetto, huperzine, niacin, boswellia, and nutmeg.

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Offline gpg

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19540 on: 14/05/2014 23:55:34 »

hi Scott

This is a reply to your private email to me which I have no way to reply to. The reply is quite general so I hope it might be of interest to other POIS patients.

Thank you for your comments on my posts.

First of all, I am not saying that you guys or girls ALL have a pheochromocytoma (PCC) in your adrenal glands - I am just pointing out a major overlap of adrenaline related symptoms between PCC and POIS.

Maybe all of the small percentage of women with POIS do actually have a PCC and POIS is actually a totally male disorder?

I think that POIS is an adrenal gland disorder - but what type? Male hormones are part of it but
maybe not female hormones, making it a male disorder?

I think that an MRI of the adrenal glands is the best place to start - firstly to rule out/in
PCC and secondly to check for any kind of tissue mass in the adrenal glands which
should not be there.

These non-PCC adrenal masses are usually labelled as incidentalomas by the docs but if you
have POIS then these anomolous tissue masses could be anything but incidental.

I would not be surprised if all POIS patients have some kind of pathological tissue mass in their
adrenal glands - either PCC or something functionally similar.

If any type of mass is found in the adrenal glands then you have a physical focus for your adrenaline
symptoms and hopefully adrenal functioning testing will elucidate what is going on for you and
others.

You really should buy yourself an automatic blood pressure/heart rate monitor for your wrist.
This needs daily recording over extended time - particularly before and after orgasm (see my previous posts).

Keeping this record yourself will provide a lot of information on your pathology and a doctor is not going
to do this for you.

I dont really know the long term outcome of PCC but I think it just gets so bad that everyone
eventually gets diagnosed and treated.

I think seasonal POIS is evidence of adrenal gland hormone issues and chronobiology.

So, have an MRI scan privately - easily and cheaply done in Europe - but I think they can be expensive in the USA? Get a BP monitor - easily and cheaply bought. Collect MRI, BP and heart rate (rhythm) data and set against your symptoms.

regards
gpg

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Offline A-Memo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19541 on: 16/05/2014 15:19:53 »
i have a question why does persons with POIS get those frustrating and strange facial expression with extreme facial exhaustion actually i would say the most ebrassing thing abouth the POIS is the facial changes that happen after orgasm and then you look like a person who havnt sleep for 4 days it mimmc extreme exhaustion while you are not exhausted ,, can any medication relieve this i dont htink vitamins and ssri can do so ?
any idea , infact i dont care about the fog as i care abouth the appeareance :S :S [>:(]
aadd to that i would like to say that i have severe gluten sensitivity to extent i cant sleep well for a day after ingestion of gluten , i have this sensitivity for 2 yrs but i had no idea about the causative agent , when i started eliminating gluten from diet the mental fogginess vanished but and i started getting milder symptoms of POIS but still significant and persist for days (5 days ) it seems like POIS have thing to do with gluten or the opposite , am thinking that may be by time of eliminating gluten i get better regarding the POIS issue but still the POIS symptoms are significant although they have reduced in severity 

also have read that gluten paly with the hormones and the secretion of adrenaline from the adrenal glands there probably a clue in this ;)
« Last Edit: 16/05/2014 15:31:48 by A-Memo »

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Offline thereishope

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19542 on: 16/05/2014 16:48:07 »
hey have you tried completely eliminating gluten for a period of at least 6 months? and if so what were your results? do you believe its worth giving a shot?

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Offline A-Memo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19543 on: 16/05/2014 22:05:10 »
i think i will be symptoms free by 6 month of gluten free,, but i feel symptoms post ingestion of gluten i get anxiety and mental fogginess ,, if you do so for sure it is worth trying but if u are not sensitive to gluten for sure it is okay ;)

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19544 on: 16/05/2014 23:10:51 »
I started eliminating gluten about a month ago ; I'll not draw any conclusion and will continue the experience for at least an other month  ; The idea behind this is gluten could cause some kind of malabsorption which could lead to various kind of symptoms which are specifically more intense after Orgasm.

After years of investigation, I'm now 100% sure that digestion is a least involved in the POIS mechanism

On my list of the potential culprit, there is also carbs and FODMAP's

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Offline A-Memo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19545 on: 17/05/2014 09:47:38 »
have you been sensitive to gluten !!?

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Offline narohWnarohW

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19546 on: 18/05/2014 22:15:50 »
Dear jferr,

My story is a lot like yours. Please read. I think you will be helped.

My "POIS" was very similar to yours in that it lasted for months after a single orgasm. It was ruining my life much like it was yours. What was the cause? Anxiety? Depression? Vitamin Deficiency? Autoimmune? Mental? NO TO ALL OF THOSE!! I took every vitamin imaginable, went to a phsycologist and two doctors who did not do much help, and even abstained. What finally worked?

I tried slow deep belly breathing while masturbating. Not only did I last much longer, but I even felt a pleasant "afterglow" feeling when I was done! I felt slightly lethargic and  tired but that was gone by the next day. I take minimal vitamins and have a very healthy diet. I tried the chlorella thing and I haven't noticed a difference.

Thank you for reading and the best of luck to you and everyone else!


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Offline Thapelo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19547 on: 21/05/2014 20:51:45 »
Hello readers,

I think i figgerd something out. If you have information about this, or you think i am wrong, please post it + send it to me private

Many pois suffers take Niancine, (vit b3) as a suplement, a half an our before orgasme. I think i figgered out why this helps.
Tryptofaan, as well as Ninance are required to make seratonine. (this is a neurotransmitter which make people feel good and happy, the opposite of a depression).
I read that in the western dieet you are short of vit b3. So supplementing this, does make you more seratonine, which reduces the effect of POIS.
This is why taking 5HTP also reduce the pois symptoms, like depression and anxiety.
Another point you might think is interesting, is that Niancine make you absorb your food better, which might reduce the diarree effect.

I just think all of this by reading some stuff,
notice, it is just an idea, if you have suggestions please also send me a private message so i can go further with my own "research"

Thank you for reading,

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Offline LAPOISSE2

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19548 on: 22/05/2014 08:09:54 »
Hey Lars,

I noticed that already and i believe serotonin is involved in POIS ; i've taken SSRI for two years with at first a total suppression of my symptoms.

That being said, I dont' think that the mechanism is that simple ; the niacin you ingest to produce serotonin after 30 minutes, it should have to inhibitory/protective effect somehow.

My experience with niacin has never been conclusive but I need to give other tentatives ; 5HTP helped me.

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Offline gondal4

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #19549 on: 24/05/2014 07:51:41 »
what about the research?where r the results?