Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2350 on: 12/12/2008 03:20:32 »
Nice one, Chewbacca - great to hear of your success :)

What you are saying appears to strongly back up the "quality of orgasm" theory - the better the orgasm, the less effect POIS has. It could well be that oxytocin is the vital chemical here.

However, I suspect that other hormones are also involved - maybe being head over heels in love with somebody changes other hormone levels also!

Great to hear of your success Chewbacca, and I hope you continue to post here - you've made some great contributions so far, and I hope you'll still come by once in a while to help us afflicted souls :)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2351 on: 12/12/2008 03:31:25 »
It could well be that oxytocin is the vital chemical here.

TO ALL: Per my previous post re Oxytocin: Direct administration can be dangerous, even fatal. From my pharmacologist-lawyer friend: "[demografx], oxytocin is a prescription drug and very dangerous if used incorrectly. It is used primarily in obstetrics to induce labor and can precipitate abortion. DO NOT TAKE THIS DRUG.  It can also cause a precipitous drop in blood pressure. Deadly combo if used with Viagra."
« Last Edit: 14/12/2008 22:01:16 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2352 on: 12/12/2008 05:06:20 »
I heard that when you're in love, only at the beginning of the relation, your PEA (phenylethylamine) is increased a lot. Maybe it's a temporary relief, but I really hope it's not !
For me all aphrodisiacs have always been a relief followed by lack of desire. However with all the chinese herbs, who knows ! I wish you good luck Chewbacca. Please inform us on the new developments even if it's in ten years, it will be great! For oxytocin I'm not sure but I think it's more linked with attachment with a partner later in the relation. Some supplements of PEA exist, to be taken with selegiline ... never heard about this before. PEA is also increased with drugs to treat ADHD (ex. Adderall), and with the amino acid phenylalanine.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2353 on: 12/12/2008 19:31:23 »
MORE ABOUT OXYTOCIN

With my last cautionary note, I don't mean to suggest that we shut down discussions and/or exploration of oxytocin.

Fenugreek, for example, I think stimulates oxytocin and could turn out to be a good thing for many of us! And we may learn more as we go along about oxytocin's role in POIS and possibly oxytocin-synergists that could work well for us.

The cautionary note is meant for direct administration of oxytocin: great care/medical supervision needs to be used.

Also, the "deadly" note was more directed at people like me, i.e., those who use ED drugs such as Levitra. Also blood pressure-related complications I imagine can become serious for some people as well.

Articles such as the Psychology Today blog in my previous post promote oxytocin as a cure for shyness, and in my opinion, could create havoc if the doctor and/or patient aren't careful. And if oxytocin ever gets sold on the "black market" I can see serious problems there as well.
« Last Edit: 13/12/2008 02:00:05 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2354 on: 13/12/2008 00:56:39 »
For oxytocin I'm not sure but I think it's more linked with attachment with a partner later in the relation.
Just a correction, I know oxytocin always increases the link between two partners after years, but there is no reason why it shouldn't be active also at the beginning of the relation.
However PEA is involved in the initial euphoria at the beginning of a relation and could be a cure for pois.

Back to oxytocin, I don't remember if this has been mentionned before, it's interesting that it's formed with amino acids : Oxytocin is a peptide of nine amino acids (a nonapeptide). The sequence is cysteine - tyrosine - isoleucine - glutamine - asparagine - cysteine - proline - leucine - glycine from :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin

Any problem with these parts of the brain could cause a lack of oxytocin:
Oxytocin receptors are expressed by neurons in many parts of the brain and spinal cord, including the amygdala, ventromedial hypothalamus, septum and brainstem.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2355 on: 13/12/2008 04:45:13 »
Martin, thank you very much for your extensive information and commentary about oxytocin!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2356 on: 13/12/2008 07:21:16 »
Nice one, Chewbacca - great to hear of your success :)

What you are saying appears to strongly back up the "quality of orgasm" theory - the better the orgasm, the less effect POIS has. It could well be that oxytocin is the vital chemical here.

However, I suspect that other hormones are also involved - maybe being head over heels in love with somebody changes other hormone levels also!

Great to hear of your success Chewbacca, and I hope you continue to post here - you've made some great contributions so far, and I hope you'll still come by once in a while to help us afflicted souls :)



Hurray, this article backs up what you say about Chewbacca's falling-in-love hormones!
http://www.youramazingbrain.org.uk/lovesex/sciencelove.htm

My conclusion: we all need to buy Chewbacca's hormone inventory - immediately! Before it wears off! [;D]
« Last Edit: 13/12/2008 07:36:39 by demografx »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2357 on: 13/12/2008 10:28:53 »
Chewbacca, congratulations on your success!

Quote
Forthly, I have been seening a TCM doctor and taking herbal treatments for Kidney Chi deficeny. This helped a lot too.


What herbal treatments are you taking?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2358 on: 13/12/2008 17:38:19 »
I hope that everyone is aware of B_Jim's amazing work on summarizing all the POIS cases reported here in the last 2 years - please see Page 11 here.
Look for MessageID 149009
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149350#msg149009

B_Jim continually updates this summary and also has found other POIS cases on the internet and reports those as well!

B_Jim has posted very helpfully to these POIS sufferers, many who are in the same agonizing situation (or worse) as we are!

Thank you, B_Jim!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2359 on: 13/12/2008 17:42:03 »
CELTIC SEA SALT

Have there been any more improvements with this salt?

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2360 on: 14/12/2008 06:53:51 »
I didn't notice any improvement with salt.  I used iodized salt.. but that should do something, if hyponatremia is the primary suspect.
« Last Edit: 14/12/2008 06:55:27 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2361 on: 14/12/2008 22:06:07 »
OXYTOCIN FOR SHYNESS?

I originally posted above (MessageID: 210632) this Psychology Today article along with my warning note. Since that might have created confusion, I thought I would re-post it here.

I think Girlwind also posted about this "cure" for shyness interest.

"The Oxytocin Cure," recent Psychology Today blog:
http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-moral-molecule/200811/the-oxytocin-cure

Whether oxytocin is used for POIS...or for shyness...I suggest the same extreme caution!
« Last Edit: 14/12/2008 22:14:22 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2362 on: 14/12/2008 22:22:55 »
COUNTERPOINTS

I don't think Counterpoints and his team, including Martin and Reuniting have been congratulated enough for their great efforts in the creation of the online POIS questionnaire system.

http://pois.olympe-network.com/

Besides being a great efficient organizer of the huge amount of POIS data on this site, this allows all participants to share POIS details and similarities/differences in symptoms and treatments.

Another great benefit is that it shows the outside world that, along with B_Jim's data, we have enough sophistication in data collection and reporting to make it a manageable effort to study us. Otherwise it could be a researcher's nightmare to sift through 100+ pages, 150 posters, 2,200+ posts.........and 5 billion theories [:)].
« Last Edit: 14/12/2008 22:31:54 by demografx »

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2363 on: 15/12/2008 00:04:13 »
Very interesting articles about oxytocin, Demografx, thanks for posting them!

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2364 on: 15/12/2008 01:08:02 »
Thanks Demografx.  I am impressed by everyone in this thread! We are all making good progress: there is so much useful information available here. And your moderation is extremely valuable.
« Last Edit: 15/12/2008 01:18:20 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2365 on: 15/12/2008 04:14:57 »
Hi all,

I have some good news to report!  I had been taking fenugreek for the past week, and then last night I took three fenugreek caspules (Solgar brand) about 1.5 hours before a release.  Today, I felt much better than I normally do.  My brain fog was mostly gone.  I still felt a little tired and somewhat 'strange' at certain points, but my overall attitude and feelings were much improved.  I felt pretty good throughout the whole day. 

I didn't take any fenugreek after the release last night or during the day today, so the improvement seems to be solely from taking the capsules beforehand.  Perhaps next time I'll try taking one after the release, or during the course of the day after.  I also hope to experiment with other variations (e.g. taking two capsules instead of three, or taking them 3 or 4 hours before the release).  Hopefully, the improvement that I experienced today will continue to reproduce itself!
« Last Edit: 15/12/2008 04:17:08 by Guthrie »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2366 on: 15/12/2008 05:42:49 »
Guthrie, congratulations!

Your posting this I have no doubt will impart much hope to many of us.

Looking forward to the next Guthrie Installment!
« Last Edit: 15/12/2008 05:45:14 by demografx »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2367 on: 15/12/2008 16:46:12 »
What is the effect of Relora and fenugreek on cortisol ?
Increase , decrease , regulation ?

According to the literature Relora is cortisol lowering. I don't know about Fenugreek.

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Offline davep007

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2368 on: 15/12/2008 19:06:18 »
I believe I have suffered from POIS most of my life, when I was younger I would sleep up to 16 hours the next day after. Today I am 41 and I notice that the next day I need at least 10 to 12 hours and I am still exhausted instead of my normal 7 or 8. I too have hypothyroidism as I have seen in other postings. I recently saw a connection between a sudden attack of impotence and the armour thyroid and stopped it on my own to find out if it helped. I was pleased to say it did help a bunch. Last night my wife and I enjoyed ourselves and today I woke up at 11:00 am. 12 hours is mandatory the next sleep. When I was a teen it was up to 16 hours. In my 20's I would save it all for Sunday and then sleep the whole day because the career would not allow for the extra sleep. I have bags under my eyes like some one hit in me in both eyes, I find a direct connection between my fatigue and the "BIG O". I have been doing chelation for mercury poisoning and I think that it has helped my overall fatigue. I think that the mercury poisoning and the POIS combined is what really made me feel the huge fatigue. The chelation is reducing the fatigue from the mercury poisoning and the POIS is still there. I have never talked to a physician about POIS but I am sure after reading about it that I have it. I am going to experiment more with it, but I already knew it was happening because if I had something important to do the next day I would turn down the opportunity, something I really have a hard time doing. The desire is always high even for the last several months when I was shooting pool with a rope.

When I was in my 20's I had something that really messed me up with my spleen becoming enlarged and my liver too. It left me with a stone in the liver of 11mm in size. It took me nearly 20 years to get almost normal. For this reason I am some what in favor of thinking this whole POIS can be an autoimmune response. Any other complaints of spleen omegila with the POIS. I also had a gallbladder that stopped working for no apparent reason, no stones just up and stopped contracting.

 

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2369 on: 15/12/2008 21:54:19 »
I too have hypothyroidism as I have seen in other postings. I recently saw a connection between a sudden attack of
impotence and the armour thyroid and stopped it on my own to find out if it helped. I was pleased to say it did help
a bunch.

I'm probably the person who posted about having a hypothyroid issue.  Am I clear in understanding that Armour
thyroid was problematic for you and gave you impotence?  I have never heard this.  Usually Armour is the better
tolerated than the synthetic thyroid med. I'm currently looking into balancing all my hormones and want to know
more about your experiences with that.

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Offline davep007

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2370 on: 15/12/2008 22:13:44 »
I was on the Synthroid for a couple of years and then a doctor I was seeing for Chelation for mercury poisoning changed me to Armour thyroid because I told him I could not stay awake in the afternoons and we split the dosage to a morning and afternoon dosage. I was not myself when starting the Synthroid 2 years ago and I was definitely not impressed on the armour. I have been off of it all for two months or 6 weeks and last night I won the gold with the wife. I am starting to get my fatigue figured out between the mercury poisoning/chelation and possibly POIS I may have my finger on it. I think the histamines may be the problem. I am going to look into them carefully. I currently am prescription free and fully intend to stay that way. It seems there are always tradeoffs with all the prescriptions. I personally did not like the trade. I prefer to not use a rope when shooting pool.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2371 on: 15/12/2008 22:26:28 »
davep007, welcome to The POIS Forum!

Filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video. A first!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

Looking forward to more of your posts!
« Last Edit: 15/12/2008 23:49:50 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2372 on: 16/12/2008 04:38:47 »
I don't think Counterpoints and his team, including Martin and Reuniting have been congratulated enough for their great efforts in the creation of the online POIS questionnaire system.
Thanks Demo and the other! I agree since a long time that B_Jim is doing a wonderful synthesis work.

CELTIC SEA SALT

Have there been any more improvements with this salt?
I didn't try this salt, but when I was about 24 I was using salt with mild success (it was salt with sodium iodide not potassium iodide). I stopped this because if it was helping a bit with fatigue it made me feel impulsive and less peaceful/joy mentally. (Also I was not feeling safe about kidneys problems, dehydration... although perhaps more salt can make you drink more water to fight dehydration, maybe it depends the dose.)
When I'm sexually abstinent for a long time I must absolutely stop salt otherwise I'm angry in the day and I'm not sleeping well in the night(I move a lot). Stopping salt is very efficient in this case for me.

In chinese medicine sodium is considered yang (male energy), while potassium is considered yin. Also they say too much yin causes fatigue.

In homeopathy potassium is considered to cause post-coital exhaustion. As I said before, I have had very bad experiences with some homeopathic remedies (not all however) and I can't recommend them here, specially for nervous people.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2373 on: 16/12/2008 05:59:29 »
I took a blood test one week after release, POIS-free. My endocrinologist comments on my hormone test results:

"Your testosterone concentration is low and prolactin is high. If I cannot explain it by the medications/supplements you were taking I'll want to schedule an MRI of your pituitary gland."


« Last Edit: 16/12/2008 06:06:11 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2374 on: 16/12/2008 06:36:16 »
What is the effect of Relora and fenugreek on cortisol ?
Increase , decrease , regulation ?

According to the literature Relora is cortisol lowering. I don't know about Fenugreek.

I couldn't find anything on Fenugreek and cortisol.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2375 on: 16/12/2008 06:45:18 »
...It would seem that my POIS was both psychological and physical in nature...Also, I really like my partner a lot which means the oxytocin is probably surging. I still believe oxytocin (LOVE) is a major component in helping to alleviate symptoms of POIS...

At one time, I gave up on the non-physical possibility of POIS. But Chewbacca's post makes me re-think it.

Does anyone else have a thought to share about this?
« Last Edit: 16/12/2008 06:47:21 by demografx »

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2376 on: 16/12/2008 15:25:32 »
...It would seem that my POIS was both psychological and physical in nature...Also, I really like my partner a lot which means the oxytocin is probably surging. I still believe oxytocin (LOVE) is a major component in helping to alleviate symptoms of POIS...

At one time, I gave up on the non-physical possibility of POIS. But Chewbacca's post makes me re-think it.

Does anyone else have a thought to share about this?

Well, it seems to me that Chewbacca's experience doesn't necessarily point to a 'psychological' (meaning non-physical) source of POIS, since the 'love' hormones released at the beginning of a relationship can certainly be described as physical.  Sure, it is possible that there could also be psychological factors, but Chewbacca's example doesn't automatically call for such an explanation.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2377 on: 16/12/2008 16:58:06 »
Thanks, Guthrie, I appreciate the clarification.

For my concern to be true, Chewbacca's "LOVE" would have only a minor association with oxytocin,and perhaps 1-2 other known chemicals and the remainder of the love-equation would be "untreatable"...except to fall in love! [:)]
« Last Edit: 16/12/2008 18:25:54 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2378 on: 16/12/2008 20:48:27 »
...It would seem that my POIS was both psychological and physical in nature...Also, I really like my partner a lot which means the oxytocin is probably surging. I still believe oxytocin (LOVE) is a major component in helping to alleviate symptoms of POIS...

At one time, I gave up on the non-physical possibility of POIS. But Chewbacca's post makes me re-think it.

Does anyone else have a thought to share about this?

Well, it seems to me that Chewbacca's experience doesn't necessarily point to a 'psychological' (meaning non-physical) source of POIS, since the 'love' hormones released at the beginning of a relationship can certainly be described as physical.  Sure, it is possible that there could also be psychological factors, but Chewbacca's example doesn't automatically call for such an explanation.

Those who have filled out the questionnaire will be able to see Chewbacca's response, two weeks ago.  He had recently tried other supplements, which he claimed were helping.  These may have had just as large a part in his recovery, as his new love interest.  If he reads this, maybe he can comment?
« Last Edit: 16/12/2008 21:00:15 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2379 on: 16/12/2008 20:51:26 »
What is the effect of Relora and fenugreek on cortisol ?
Increase , decrease , regulation ?

I read a claim that (amongst doing other things!) Relora reduces cortisol by 37%

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2380 on: 16/12/2008 23:24:00 »
I took a blood test one week after release, POIS-free. My endocrinologist comments on my hormone test results:

"Your testosterone concentration is low and prolactin is high. If I cannot explain it by the medications/supplements you were taking I'll want to schedule an MRI of your pituitary gland."



This is a big deal.  Thanks for sharing Demo.  I take my labs shortly and will test each hormone (testosterone and prolactin).

Will you take the MRI based on the doctors discretion?
« Last Edit: 16/12/2008 23:27:24 by Limejuice »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2381 on: 17/12/2008 01:33:06 »
I took a blood test one week after release, POIS-free. My endocrinologist comments on my hormone test results:

"Your testosterone concentration is low and prolactin is high. If I cannot explain it by the medications/supplements you were taking I'll want to schedule an MRI of your pituitary gland."

Are those the ONLY blood tests you did? Or are they the only ones he mentioned to be "out of range?"

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2382 on: 17/12/2008 01:49:12 »
I took a blood test one week after release, POIS-free. My endocrinologist comments on my hormone test results:

"Your testosterone concentration is low and prolactin is high. If I cannot explain it by the medications/supplements you were taking I'll want to schedule an MRI of your pituitary gland."



This is a big deal.  Thanks for sharing Demo.  I take my labs shortly and will test each hormone (testosterone and prolactin).

Will you take the MRI based on the doctors discretion?

Yes, Limejuice, he's scheduling me now for pituitary MRI before the end of the year (before my insurance deductible starts over [:)]).

I googled "what does high prolactin mean?" and came up with 2 interesting answers:

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/heartandblood/203252.html

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/aha/umneuro_prolactinoma.htm

University of Michigan article ends I think on a very positive note (I assume this applies to men and women):

What is the prognosis?

Usually, medications fully restore normal sexual function and fertility. If the pituitary was irreparably damaged
by [a] tumor, even then there are other medications that can restore fertility.


P.S. - When I explained POIS to my old classmate, the PhD biophysicist and HIV/AIDS pioneer (1981 research) whom I mentioned previously, "prolactin" and "IL-6" was his first reaction.
« Last Edit: 17/12/2008 16:24:02 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2383 on: 17/12/2008 02:23:20 »
I took a blood test one week after release, POIS-free. My endocrinologist comments on my hormone test results:

"Your testosterone concentration is low and prolactin is high. If I cannot explain it by the medications/supplements you were taking I'll want to schedule an MRI of your pituitary gland."

Are those the ONLY blood tests you did? Or are they the only ones he mentioned to be "out of range?"

Girlwind, no, those were only the ones "out of range". They tested just about everything that you and I reviewed before my  meeting: all the thyroid tests, the testosterone test (Free Testosterone), DHEA-S, cortisol, plus several more. Some weren't even on our list!

The endocrinologist said 1-2 of the sub-tests that I requested above (thyroid?) were "controversial", but frankly at this point I didn't care, this is one of the largest university medical and endocrinology centers in the world and I wasn't about to go "shopping" elsewhere. I just wanted it over at this point. And he said that a few of the blood tests would have to be analyzed outside the medical center so he waited till he got all the results in before emailing me the above finding.

If this turns out to be a pituitary tumor, my wife found an excellent 2nd opinion medical-endocrinological group, again a "world class" facility.

from http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/pituitary_tumors/pituitary_tumors.htm#What_is
"Most pituitary tumors are benign, which means they are non-cancerous, grow slowly and do not spread to other parts of the body, however they can make the pituitary gland produce too many hormones, which can cause problems in the body."

I'm just posting about the tumor informationally, I have no idea if I have one, but if someone here does have an undiagnosed one it seems like it could be a POIS suspect!
« Last Edit: 17/12/2008 18:28:44 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2384 on: 17/12/2008 02:29:04 »
If [Chewbacca] reads this, maybe he can comment?

I've sent him several private messages. No reply yet. He must be....er....busy  [:D]

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2385 on: 17/12/2008 04:56:06 »
Demo: Great that something will finally come out from your visit to the university. If they give you testosterone replacement therapy will you accept to take it ?




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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2386 on: 17/12/2008 16:16:43 »
Demo: Great that something will finally come out from your visit to the university. If they give you testosterone replacement therapy will you accept to take it ?

I'm not sure. I took it before, it helped libido, but not POIS. My understanding is that it can shut down your body's own testosterone production.

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Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2387 on: 17/12/2008 18:42:11 »
Lately the auto-immune theory (allergy) was again exposed on this forum.
I wondered if anyone tested for antibodies in their blood to (dis)prove this theory?
POIS, fatigue, brain fog, can't find words, irritated, can't concentrate.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2388 on: 17/12/2008 21:25:50 »
I take my labs shortly and will test each hormone (testosterone and prolactin).

I would request as comprehensive a test as possible, e.g., Girlwind's list includes The thyroid tests: Free T3, Free T4, TSH and TPO, and Reverse T3, Free Testosterone, DHEA - S, cortisol, HGH human growth hormone.

My endocrinologist/lab didn't have all of those, but they knew I was after "comprehensive" so they included everything they could.
« Last Edit: 17/12/2008 21:27:21 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2389 on: 17/12/2008 22:40:08 »
I really think Pois may be interpreted as an inflammation, at least for flu-like symptoms (fevers, back, shoulders and knees pains...even acne)

Never had flu like symptoms.  Never any pain, heat, headaches....  My case is much like John's -- just mental symptoms (though these can be extremely severe!!!).  However, all my life, I have had bad eczema problems.  I also developed heat urticaria (blotches after being exposed to hot water) when I was about 16.  I have noticed a small inverse relationship between eczema problems (and urticaria) and POIS.  (I am not sure if it is significant, however).

In regards to cortisol.  My cortisol is usually high when I have it tested.  HOWEVER, in the 5 tests I've done, my cortisol has consistently been higher within hours of orgasm, than when I wait for a couple days.  This suggests I have the opposite reaction to most men.
(See: http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/reprint/177/1/57.pdf)  (Article on the neuroendocrine response of orgasm in men).

Something else is quite notable.  I can alleviate my symptoms, 100%, with repeated attempts at orgasm.  This is really remarkable.  Sometimes it takes 5-6 subsequent orgasms to return to "normal", but it always happens.  And it's very real. This might say a lot about what's happening -- how sometimes one orgasm will "undo" the damage of a previous one.
« Last Edit: 17/12/2008 22:56:47 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2390 on: 18/12/2008 04:51:47 »
That is interesting.  When you say subsequent attempts do you mean orgasming 6 days in a row or 6 in a day?

Also, do the symptoms go away during 'play' but return after orgasm?

I've never experienced this before because each orgasm I feel worst than before.  I usually stop after 3 or 4 orgasms because of that trend.  Maybe I just need to man-up and work it more.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2391 on: 18/12/2008 06:02:34 »
That is interesting.  When you say subsequent attempts do you mean orgasming 6 days in a row or 6 in a day?

Also, do the symptoms go away during 'play' but return after orgasm?

I've never experienced this before because each orgasm I feel worst than before.  I usually stop after 3 or 4 orgasms because of that trend.  Maybe I just need to man-up and work it more.

6 in a day.  I'd be careful experimenting with this.  I've had POIS for about 10 years.  Within a year, I had stopped any deliberate orgasms -- so I was only having nocturnal emissions.  After about 5 years, I vaguely noticed that the days or weeks after one NE, felt different than the days or weeks after another.  It's as though the "out of POIS" periods were sometimes better or different than others.  I didn't pay much attention to it though.  Then after about 7 years, I went to bed once, feeling in a very awful state of POIS.  In the early morning I had an NE, and I felt great.  Absolutely relieved of all symptoms. I didn't think it was something I had control over though, so I dismissed it, again.  All this time, I was operating under the idea more orgasms = more POIS symptoms... and that generally seemed true, though it wasn't something I was keen to test, and I didn't have any good reason to be curious about it.   

Then after 8 years, my POIS symptoms were no longer as bad.  I had begun deliberately having orgasm more often, as a result.  This is when I realized that sometimes a subsequent orgasm would alleviate symptoms caused by a previous orgasm, hours beforehand.  This was a very real effect, and I've tested it probably about 400 times.  It's something I'm very sure about.  After awhile though, I tended to need more and more for the "relief".  Eventually it took 5-6 orgasms/day, which prevented me from getting my work done.  At this point I crashed, and my POIS became quite terrible again.  Shortly after, I found this thread (in July).

Now usually when I have an orgasm, I feel severe POIS symptoms.  Sometimes a subsequent orgasm, within hours, will alleviate these symptoms.  Now (this never happened before), the relief usually only lasts hours to a day.  Then *SOME* of the symptoms return -- difficulty focusing, slow to learn and comprehend, etc.  The anxiety isn't as bad though.

Re: 'during play'.  I'm not sure.  They seem to get a little better, but nothing really drastic usually.
« Last Edit: 18/12/2008 06:05:28 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2392 on: 18/12/2008 08:03:05 »
ADHD-I?
For a long time, I have exhibited symptoms of ADHD predominantly inattentive (ADHD-I: SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHD-I).  This is a special subtype of ADHD, and patients with this have responded to treatment differently than those with other types of ADHD.  I have never pursued treatment.  These symptoms are particularly apparent "in POIS".  But even outside POIS, I quite obviously suffer from: "inattention, easy distractibility, disorganization, procrastination, forgetfulness".  It's not something that has particularly bothered me, since I have a degree of conscious control over it.  But it is obvious.  I'm horribly disorganized, and I always have been.  And though I generally did well in school, my main problem was with careless mistakes.  I could almost never get 100% on anything, since I would make a trivial addition error, or something of this sort, no matter how well I understood the material.

Perhaps this behavior is due to a chemical imbalance that is severely exacerbated by orgasm?  Has anyone else had these symptoms, outside POIS? If you read the wikipedia description of ADHD-I, do you find it describes you at all? 

Also: Sluggish cognitive tempo (SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_cognitive_tempo) seems to describe many of the in-POIS symptoms.

Any ideas?
« Last Edit: 18/12/2008 08:04:54 by Counterpoints »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2393 on: 18/12/2008 14:25:50 »
Demo: Great that something will finally come out from your visit to the university. If they give you testosterone replacement therapy will you accept to take it ?

I'm not sure. I took it before, it helped libido, but not POIS. My understanding is that it can shut down your body's own testosterone production.
Definitely this is a concern. If they have a suggestion to treat this without side effects I'd like to know. Do you remember exactly what molecule of testosterone you were taking ?
(Some are safer for the liver)
On the other side I was reading a paper from a lab, they say : "elevated level of testosterone suggests androgen resistance". I think that means it's elevated because we don't use it. Interpretation of tests is not always easy...
« Last Edit: 18/12/2008 14:27:24 by martin88 »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2394 on: 18/12/2008 14:50:51 »
In regards to cortisol.  My cortisol is usually high when I have it tested.  HOWEVER, in the 5 tests I've done, my cortisol has consistently been higher within hours of orgasm, than when I wait for a couple days. 
This is very helpful Counterpoints, thanks a lot for mentionning this.

About your experience about having repetitive orgasms to cure pois, I agree with you IF we talk about a brief relief (in the short term.) However after a few days my pois will be longer and a lot more severe if I do this.
Perhaps you can solve this by trying to have a better erection the first time .

For Chewbacca, I have to say that this phrase "use it or lose it" "sex is like a muscle etc.." has been terribly devastating for me. (very severe pois, if not the cause of pois). Also it's false for me, the opposite is true.




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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2395 on: 18/12/2008 15:25:44 »
For Chewbacca, I have to say that this phrase "use it or lose it" "sex is like a muscle etc.." has been terribly devastating for me.
(very severe pois, if not the cause of pois). Also it's false for me, the opposite is true.

Me too, Martin. At this point I would not even try to experiment with having more than one orgasm in a day.
In the past this left me ABSOLUTELY WASTED  [xx(] [xx(] [xx(] and made my symptoms much more extreme.
My CORTISOL has a history of being TOO LOW, so I can't afford to "lose"  what I don't even have!

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2396 on: 18/12/2008 16:08:26 »
Counterpoints: having to have 5 or 6 orgasms a day sounds a lot like  drug addicts who need a fix to counteract withdrawal symptoms of the drug. Many here have mentioned overmasturbation,usually in teenage years as a possible cause.
When I was young I used it as a way to deal with depression which started when I was 10.  It was addictive and I was looking foreward to being alone. Usually I would try to stop before a release so I could keep doing it as long as I could.  When I began having physical symptoms I had to slow down.
I learned through meditation how to change the flow of energy in the body.  It is about the only way to minimize depression and be able be abstinent for long time.  The first 2 weeks are when the urge feels the strongest.
When I was 25 I tried having a daily orgasm.  It seemed to work because the symptoms got the worst after about 2 hours but after a few weeks I got very tired and got off the "treadmill" everything seemed to come back.  

I did well in school but my mind wandered a lot.  I learned to take notes in a robotic way that I could review later.  I would never understand a Math textbook but would figure out how to solve problems and it is where I excelled.  I read very slow. Motor skills are really bad. Typing this
isn't easy. Often, I will walk into a room and have trouble remembering while I went in there.

My POIS symptoms seem to be more like Fibromyalgia or CFS.  I have been using a combination of herbal supplements since late October.  Muscle stiffness has been reversed and I have much more energy

I contacted  a prominent immunological researcher.  He responded by saying he could not say for sure if there was any connection between POIs and the immune system but that because the immune system, the nervous system and the endocrine system are so closely intertwined in the body that one could easily effect the others.          

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Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2397 on: 18/12/2008 17:25:53 »
I also found having orgasms addictive in the past. If I had had an orgasm the previous night, my body would ask for another the night after. I wouldn't have any urge if I hadn't had one the night before. Strange but true.
POIS, fatigue, brain fog, can't find words, irritated, can't concentrate.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2398 on: 18/12/2008 19:01:18 »
Very true.  It does feel like an addiction.  It especially did when I needed 5-6 orgasms to go back to normal.  I was definitely looking for whatever "chemical fix" would temporarily relieve my system. I could live normally when it only took 1-2 orgasms to feel fine.  And that's all it took for about a year.  I was very productive. But once I got to 5-6/day, it was no longer manageable.  I must say, though, I have never had problems with motor control. I started learning piano when I was 7, about 7 years before I had any POIS symptoms.  By that time (14), I could average about 170 WPM on QWERTY keyboards (and I am sure it is because of the brain connections I made as a very young child, learning piano).  And I haven't substantially decreased in speed either.  I'm probably about 140 WPM now, but I haven't practised my typing at all.

To those who have prominent symptoms of physical exhaustion (and mental exhaustion), I would recommend extra caution if you ever consider experimenting with subsequent orgasms to alleviate symptoms.  Though subsequent orgasms have sometimes eliminated brain fog for me, I have never found that they decrease physical exhaustion (or mental exhaustion): to the contrary, both are usually increased.


Theory: I think most people are addicted to the chemicals associated with orgasm; having an orgasm is like taking a drug.  I'm just far more intensely addicted than others, because of a different brain chemistry.  Therefore, in a general sense, the chemical fluctuation and withdrawal associated with this addiction is the cause of POIS.
« Last Edit: 18/12/2008 19:24:47 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2399 on: 18/12/2008 20:00:39 »
ADHD-I?
For a long time, I have exhibited symptoms of ADHD predominantly inattentive (ADHD-I: SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHD-I).  This is a special subtype of ADHD, and patients with this have responded to treatment differently than those with other types of ADHD.  I have never pursued treatment.  These symptoms are particularly apparent "in POIS".  But even outside POIS, I quite obviously suffer from: "inattention, easy distractibility, disorganization, procrastination, forgetfulness".  It's not something that has particularly bothered me, since I have a degree of conscious control over it.  But it is obvious.  I'm horribly disorganized, and I always have been.  And though I generally did well in school, my main problem was with careless mistakes.  I could almost never get 100% on anything, since I would make a trivial addition error, or something of this sort, no matter how well I understood the material.

Perhaps this behavior is due to a chemical imbalance that is severely exacerbated by orgasm?  Has anyone else had these symptoms, outside POIS? If you read the wikipedia description of ADHD-I, do you find it describes you at all? 

Also: Sluggish cognitive tempo (SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_cognitive_tempo) seems to describe many of the in-POIS symptoms.

Any ideas?


CP, I'm a longstanding club member[;D], much better since being on Adderall. It's one reason for my excessive caffeine: self-medicating for decades!
« Last Edit: 18/12/2008 20:03:00 by demografx »