Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2450 on: 24/12/2008 01:47:03 »
Demografx, I too have a grown son and was thinking about asking him if he has any POIS issues. He can be moody, and has a lot of my idiosyncrasies i.e. mood changes.
It does seem a bit awkward. But I'll figure out a way. I've told my M.D. but not my psychiatrist (in full detail). This forum is better than both. My wife fully understands, but doesn't make a big deal about it. What I hate about POIS is how it is very close to a panic attack that morphs into a 3-4 day lingering illness. However, the panic part may not show up for a few hours or even longer. I think Counterpoint mentioned that he gets it only 70% of the time. That is very, very interesting.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2451 on: 24/12/2008 02:28:32 »
MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST'S LABWORK ORDERED FOR POIS

-TSH (Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone)

I didn't want to push specific testing requests any further than this. I'm not the doctor.

Did you get the Free T3 and free T4? And what were the results on those.
Also what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2452 on: 24/12/2008 02:29:14 »
I think Counterpoint mentioned that he gets it only 70% of the time. That is very, very interesting.

You can't believe Counterpoints, he's a biophysicist! [;D]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2453 on: 24/12/2008 02:34:40 »
MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST'S LABWORK ORDERED FOR POIS

-TSH (Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone)

I didn't want to push specific testing requests any further than this. I'm not the doctor.

Did you get the Free T3 and free T4? And what were the results on those.
Also what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

Nope. He said T3 and T4 are controversial. Like I said, I didn't push it...and as I mentioned I don't have ALL "in range refs".

For now, I will just trust him.

Let's see what he can do. That's my bottom line. If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it.
If it works, I'll follow him anywhere[;D]

The big deal now is his recommended brain scan this Friday! MORE than enough for me. For now.
« Last Edit: 24/12/2008 02:38:06 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2454 on: 24/12/2008 03:40:18 »
Demografx, I too have a grown son and was thinking about asking him if he has any POIS issues...It does seem a bit awkward. But I'll figure out a way.

Nice to know others struggle with the same issue!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2455 on: 24/12/2008 04:27:28 »
...what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

Girlwind, I found it. My TSH is 3.1, the ref range is 0.3 - 4.7 mcIU/mL.
« Last Edit: 24/12/2008 04:52:19 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2456 on: 24/12/2008 04:49:58 »
2002 POIS Research Study

The first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If anyone wants a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "demografx".

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2457 on: 24/12/2008 05:12:49 »
I think Counterpoint mentioned that he gets it only 70% of the time. That is very, very interesting.

Hi Underwater,
I have this too but it's going like this:
Sometimes (rarely) I think I don't have pois, but it's there for sure! As soon as I'm confronted to hard exercise or problems, people, where the nervous system is involved, the slightest thing can quickly make the pois very obvious.
Congratulations for your marathons! If you wish to share tips on nutrition do not hesitate. [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2458 on: 24/12/2008 06:14:18 »
Sometimes (rarely) I think I don't have pois, but it's there for sure! As soon as I'm confronted to hard exercise or problems, people, where the nervous system is involved, the slightest thing can quickly make the pois very obvious.

Maybe that's why my Levitra cure isn't doing as well lately. More stress. And that's where POIS "serenity" is tested. Interesting, Martin.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2459 on: 24/12/2008 07:51:30 »


>>>>That's fabulous that your last 3 NE's have been POIS free. What do you think are the reasons? This is very interesting. Were there accompanying dreams or were you in deep sleep and unaware of anything?

I was dreaming about my partner, who I was not seeing at the time (As you might suspect this disease is very relationship destructive). When I did see her again, 40 days later, she was overjoyed that I had had POIS free orgasms (her hope , of course , was that if that were true then there may be possibilities for POIS free orgasmic coupleship sexuality.)

>>>I hope this leads to a possible theories.

The best I can postulate at this point is that the neurochemistry of intentionality is not in play here, but that is a guess. Previous NE's, prior to these three, have yielded POIS symptoms but the symptoms were considerably muted, which would lend credence to the intentionality theory, but still not explain it fully.



>>>>I'm also very interested in your L-5 issues. My "current onslaught" of POIS and Anxiety began about 1 1/2 years ago with Lumbar Problems betweeen S-1 and L-5.

My current onslaught came on 1 1/2 years ago, too. I was experimenting with raw organic veganism with emphasis on extremely large quantities of living foods. It worked remarkably well in the sense that my sexual desire was eliminated( just as Gandhi's work states that it will) However I discovered through blood work 10 days ago that I have become iron, Vitamin D and b-12 deficient . This has been doubly vexing in that the weakness associated with anemia can be confused with POIS symptoms.
For 11 months I was plagued with anemia, but the POIS symptoms were completely gone. When I began to see my partner again 8 months ago, and engage in non-orgasmic sexuality, the 'onslaught' commenced. Through thoughtful negotiation, very careful sexual boundaries and the willingness of my partner I have avoided the full torrential consequences of POIS....Whew!


>>>>This seemed to join up with my Anxiety and POIS to make this a horrible 1 1/2 years. When I'm not in POIS and generally without Anxiety, my Lower Back issues almost disappear. I'm still stiff, but a whole lot more pain free. In fact, I've noticed that when my back is all of a sudden feeling real good, any POIS or Anxiety I have also nearly disappears.
It's as if my brain, spinal cord and pelvic floor muscles are one connected system.


You know, I've never observed that , but I will pay attention to that in the future.




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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2460 on: 24/12/2008 09:08:18 »
Previous NE's, prior to these three, have yielded POIS symptoms but the symptoms were considerably muted, which would lend credence to the intentionality theory, but still not explain it fully.

We're all different. My NE's have always been as forcefully devastating as the real thing.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2461 on: 24/12/2008 09:21:36 »
Demografx,

>>>We're all different. My NE's have always been as forcefully devastating as the real thing.

I feel sad , but a little envious, of the clarity you experience in the consistency of your experience of the illness.  I have, unfortunately, let  the 10-15% 'free passes' I have experienced on being orgasmic lead me to 'countless vain attempts' to try to 'control and enjoy' this illness.

On beginning to read previous entries in this thread I saw that you have experimented with chastity. What was your overall impression with using that as a technique?

Steve D.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2462 on: 24/12/2008 15:54:49 »
MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST'S LABWORK ORDERED FOR POIS

-TSH (Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone)

I didn't want to push specific testing requests any further than this. I'm not the doctor.

Did you get the Free T3 and free T4? And what were the results on those.
Also what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

Nope. He said T3 and T4 are controversial. Like I said, I didn't push it...and as I mentioned I don't have ALL "in range refs".

For now, I will just trust him.

Let's see what he can do. That's my bottom line. If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it.
If it works, I'll follow him anywhere[;D]

The big deal now is his recommended brain scan this Friday! MORE than enough for me. For now.

Getting a Free T3 and Free T4 test is not controversial. What IS controversial is that your endocrinologist (like most)
is ignoring the recent research that stresses the importance of using the Free T3 and Free T4 tests. Those are
the tests that will give you the MOST ACCURATE read on your thyroid.    TSH alone is worthless.

Here's what Joseph Mercola has to say about it:

"Q. You have said that if a TSH is above 1.5 there is a strong chance the thyroid gland is not working properly.
Can you explain why you feel that is the case?

A: I have carefully analyzed hundred's of patient's symptoms and had many of them take their basal body tempera-
tures. There appears to be a strong correlation between this threshold value of a TSH above 1.5 and the diagnosis of
hypothyroidism. Most patients who have TSH levels above 1.5 seem to respond quite well to natural therapies that
either improve or replace thyroid function.

Q. Why do you feel that [Free T3 and Free T4 levels are the only accurate measures of the actual active thyroid
hormone levels in the blood?
Why do you feel these are more accurate than the TSH level, which is considered
the standard by the majority of conventional physicians?

A. The Free T3 and Free T4 levels represent the active hormones circulating in the blood. The typical thyroid tests:
Total T4, T3 Uptake (and Free Thyroxine Index (FTI) are virtually worthless and should have been abandoned years
ago. I believe that the Free T3 and Free T4 are not superior to TSH, but should be used in conjunction with TSH.
My contention is that the reference range for TSH is inaccurate. TSH is quite a good screen and will in fact assess
most cases of hypothyroidism if the new ranges are utilized. The value of Free T3 and Free T4 comes into play when one
needs to diagnose secondary and tertiary hypothyroidism. These are cases of hypothyroidism due to pituitary or hypo-
thalamic dysfunction. These are far less common than primary hypothyroidism, but nevertheless they do constitute a
significant percentage of individuals."

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2463 on: 24/12/2008 16:20:36 »
Hi Martin---
You mention that the slightest stress can trigger a more intense POIS experience (during POIS), where before this "stress trigger" there may have been close to a zero POIS manifestation. I think this happens to me all the time; during anxiety episodes and POIS episodes. I'm reluctant to say that certain things may help, because when I think I'm on to something, later I find that I am not. It's hard to avoid "stress triggers" in life, but I think we can strengthen our immune/nervous system overall to combat our problems. Girlwind seems to be focusing on a holistic approach,and I think she's very prescient. Granted, orgasm has its own neurochemical chain reactions, but I can't help thinking it isolated from our overall homeostatis.
     I used to do marathons back in the late 1970's and I ran long distance up to 4 years ago, when I switched to long distance swimming. My endorphins would keep me calm up to 90% of the time. However, stressful periods (with POIS or without) would
send me into discomfort. It seemed that POIS fit nicely in this mix and always made- and makes- things much worse. POIS seems to pile on my condition to make things intolerable (when I have it). Right now I'm trying to seriously work on supplements to my diet and remaining hydrated. This forum has helped a lot in getting me focused on diet, especially Girlwind's comments. I guess we all hope that a solution could be natural. If I feel that I have come upon some successful combination of my supplements I will report. I certainly have avoided sugar, alcohol and caffein for a long time. If I were to have a chocolate moose and a tall glass of champaign I would die, literally. Is that WEIRD??????????

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2464 on: 24/12/2008 16:53:35 »
Underwater,

>>>>I certainly have avoided sugar, alcohol and caffeine for a long time. 

I've experimented with no alcohol, drugs, tobacco, caffeine, sugar , meat , dairy , eggs and wheat and it all helps, but if I were to be honest the sex is so powerful, for me, that it counteracts all my best efforts although it ameliorates the symptoms. There are other tools , too, that I've found useful, but the truth is, for me, that abstinence seems to be the only effective tool...a price I'm not willing to fully pay at the moment.


I've sent a post inquiring about demographx mention of abstinence, what is your experience with this, Underwater?

Quietly hoping there is some other solution,

Steve D.


Steve D.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2465 on: 24/12/2008 17:22:26 »
Steve---
Like nutrition and exercise, abstinence is another way to deal with a unique nervous system. It's hard to "control" such a "hard wired" component, but I submit to abstinence all the time. But I am at the mercy of my primordial brain during sleep, always visited by a seductress intent on ....................................
I have never told my psychiatrist about this, he would think me mad! I think it's good to try to get a laugh about our condition once in a while, because for the time I'm  with POIS, I never feel like even writing, not even the desire to post a short comment like this one. However, with this forum, I'm very confident there will be ways to successfully confront POIS in 2009. I'm with Demografx on that one. 

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2466 on: 24/12/2008 18:24:58 »
...what was your TSH--what's considered "in range" is a controversial topic.

Girlwind, I found it. My TSH is 3.1, the ref range is 0.3 - 4.7 mcIU/mL.

Demografx: Just an FYI to let you that the "NORMAL" range for thyroid tests has changed FIVE TIMES
over the last few decades.
It's a long story, and I won't go into ALL the details, except for the latest ones.

IN LATE 2002, the announcement came out for yet a "new recommended normal range" for TSH.
Whereas the "prior normal" for TSH levels until 11/2002) was btwn 0.5 to 5.5. "Recommendations
from the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists now encourage doctors to consider treatment
for patients who test outside a narrower normal range of 0.3 to 3.0."

I'm surprised the lab that your endo used does not even recognize those new norms! And, as I mentioned
in my previous post, some doctors who have worked extensively with thyroid patients, use even a lower
normal for TSH, of BELOW 1.5. I think this is something that warrants consideration, and possibly future
retesting using the Free T3 and Free T4 tests in conjunction with TSH, with a doctor who is more open and
cooperative.

« Last Edit: 24/12/2008 18:31:37 by girlwind »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2467 on: 24/12/2008 19:03:35 »
Demografx: Just an FYI to let you that the "NORMAL" range for thyroid tests has changed FIVE TIMES
over the last few decades.
It's a long story, and I won't go into ALL the details, except for the latest ones.

Girlwind, I really appreciate your terrific update on the world of thyroid.

I do believe that I'm working with one of the world's top endocrinologists. I have worked together with him so far and - for many reasons - I want to play out the top hunch: that POIS and prolactin are somehow connected.

My prolactin reading is sky-high!

The brain MRI scan of my pituitary gland is next: day after tomorrow. And frankly, I'm a little nervous. This is a BIG DEAL. I simply have my hands full at this time.

Girlwind, also keep in mind: The thyroid gland is under the control of the pituitary gland! And at this time, we have no known theory that this ambivalent world of thyroid readings and POIS in men is connected.

The POIS prolactin theory was also corroborated by another old school buddy, a PhD biophysicist who is a pioneer in AIDS research.

So....once this current prolactin/pituitary drama is played out, I will pursue your excellent recommendations.

Thanks again.
« Last Edit: 24/12/2008 19:14:47 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2468 on: 24/12/2008 19:32:54 »
Demografx,

>>>We're all different. My NE's have always been as forcefully devastating as the real thing.

I feel sad , but a little envious, of the clarity you experience in the consistency of your experience of the illness.  I have, unfortunately, let  the 10-15% 'free passes' I have experienced on being orgasmic lead me to 'countless vain attempts' to try to 'control and enjoy' this illness.

On beginning to read previous entries in this thread I saw that you have experimented with chastity. What was your overall impression with using that as a technique?

Steve D.


Thanks, Steve. It doesn't work (for me).

As several others have noted, Steve, abstaining/chastity eventually creates a tension for many people that can be as bad as POIS! In my case it has also led to depression, loss of libido and ED.

On the positive side, if one can and wants to handle chastity...comfortably...then one is cured of POIS!

For me, the current comfort level is approximately 4-5 weeks of abstention at a time.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2469 on: 24/12/2008 20:08:32 »
Girlwind---
Thanks you for your response a few days back--You mentioned Rhodiola and Holy Basil-
Can you tell me what time of day you take them. I've read quite a bit the last few weeks about these plants (including Valerian), and I was wondering if you can detect any improvement with them. Interestingly, my psychiatrist mentioned Valerian the last time I visited. My current operating theory is that if I can improve my overall well being (including my anxiety condition), POIS will be diminished even if just marginally. I remember for many years I was feeling quite well, and my POIS was tolerable, though measurably uncomfortable. I knew it was coming,I faced it well enough, and just waited a couple of days. About a year and a half ago, my whole being went into a tailspin,anxiety and POIS. I'm certain it was accumulated stress.
When I went to a Chinese Ph.D. in Biochemnistry (and acupuncturist) for treatment, she told me that in China the hormones are considered to be subject to psycho/emotional causes. I find it hard to accept this in its entirety, such as your
unfortunate encounter with lightning, but in many instances I think this is correct.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2470 on: 24/12/2008 20:10:00 »
I have never told my psychiatrist about this, he would think me mad!

Underwater, I was nervous but I finally - over time - told 3 therapists, including 2 psychiatrists.

I believe it's important to tell them because if there is a negative reaction - now this is just my opinion - I don't think they deserve to be working with us!

Many people are closeminded when they hear about POIS - either through ignorance or primitive misunderstandings about sex - and we go through enough agony with POIS without compounding it by paying someone who is not acting in our best interests!!

There are sympathetic people out there. Let's stick to them!
« Last Edit: 24/12/2008 20:12:37 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2471 on: 24/12/2008 20:26:10 »
...with this forum, I'm very confident there will be ways to successfully confront POIS in 2009. I'm with Demografx on that one. 

Thanks, Underwater! Actually, we have had POIS successes in 2008: with Levitra, Relora, Fenugreek, Garlic.

If I left any treatment out, someone please post them!

More on Levitra:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=levitra+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

More on Relora:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=relora+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

More on Fenugreek:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fenugreek+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

More on garlic:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=garlic+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&btnG=Search
« Last Edit: 24/12/2008 20:29:10 by demografx »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2472 on: 24/12/2008 20:33:57 »

≥≥≥≥Like nutrition and exercise, abstinence is another way to deal with a unique nervous system. It's hard to "control" such a "hard wired" component, but I submit to abstinence all the time. But I am at the mercy of my primordial brain during sleep, always visited by a seductress intent on ....................................
I have never told my psychiatrist about this, he would think me mad! I think it's good to try to get a laugh about our condition once in a while, because for the time I'm  with POIS, I never feel like even writing, not even the desire to post a short comment like this one. However, with this forum, I'm very confident there will be ways to successfully confront POIS in 2009. I'm with Demografx on that one.

I'm with you Underwater, I need to keep my sense of humor about this a bit, just to keep my sanity... 





>>>>>>Thanks, Steve. It doesn't work (for me).

As several others have noted, Steve, abstaining/chastity eventually creates a tension for many people that can be as bad as POIS! In my case it has also led to depression, loss of libido and ED.

On the positive side, if one can and wants to handle chastity...comfortably...then one is cured of POIS!

For me, the current comfort level is approximately 4-5 weeks of abstention at a time.


Thanks for saving me the time of reading through the whole thread. Chastity as a solution is not acceptable as a solution to my partner as well!

Steve D.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2473 on: 24/12/2008 21:18:34 »
For now, I will just trust him.

Let's see what he can do. That's my bottom line. If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it.
If it works, I'll follow him anywhere[;D]

I do feel some concern about how quickly you are willing to surrender your power to an authority. I think
that having at least SOME LEVEL of skepticism is a good thing. I encourage you to be your own best health
advocate and to trust your own instincts above the advice of ANYONE else, including me.


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2474 on: 24/12/2008 21:25:39 »
...with this forum, I'm very confident there will be ways to successfully confront POIS in 2009. I'm with Demografx on that one. 

For 2007 and 2008 POIS successes and others on the Web!

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. MessageID: 149009
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2475 on: 24/12/2008 21:35:20 »
Girlwind---
Thanks you for your response a few days back--You mentioned Rhodiola and Holy Basil-
Can you tell me what time of day you take them. I've read quite a bit the last few weeks about these plants (including Valerian), and I was wondering if you can detect any improvement with them. Interestingly, my psychiatrist mentioned Valerian the last time I visited. My current operating theory is that if I can improve my overall well being (including my anxiety condition), POIS will be diminished even if just marginally. I remember for many years I was feeling quite well, and my POIS was tolerable, though measurably uncomfortable. I knew it was coming,I faced it well enough, and just waited a couple of days. About a year and a half ago, my whole being went into a tailspin,anxiety and POIS. I'm certain it was accumulated stress.
When I went to a Chinese Ph.D. in Biochemnistry (and acupuncturist) for treatment, she told me that in China the hormones are considered to be subject to psycho/emotional causes. I find it hard to accept this in its entirety, such as your
unfortunate encounter with lightning, but in many instances I think this is correct.


I have taken Rhodiola and Holy Basil during the day, after meals. The dose for the Rhodiola I took was only 2/day.
The Holy Basil I took up to 5 gel caps, 3X/day. I found each of them to be very effective initially, for lowering that
cortisol stress-buzz. But in time, they each lost their effectiveness, probably because my body got used to them.
I currently don't take them at all, and am hoping that in a year's time, they will possibly become effective again,
after I take a long break from them.

Valerian, UN-fortunately does not work for me. It causes me to become more hyper, rather than relaxed! This is
a bummer for sure, because valerian CAN BE a great sleep aid, if you don't have this sort of "paradoxical" reaction.

I totally agree with your conclusions about the improvement in one's overall well being causing a diminishment
of POIS symptoms. That has DEFINITELY been true for me. When my overall health is stronger and I am sleeping well
and feeling rested, my POIS symptoms are far less severe. Managing stress and staying balanced emotionally is
important, but that is much easier to do, when you feel strong and well rested!

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2476 on: 24/12/2008 21:54:05 »
Quote
If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it

I already have...that's my usual lunch, sorry it doesn't work. Dirt I'm not sure about, perhaps it's high in minerals.  [:D]

I'm workin' on a theory... will be chatting in the new year.

Merry Christmas everyone!

« Last Edit: 27/12/2008 10:42:38 by John21 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2477 on: 24/12/2008 22:08:41 »
Quote
If he suggests peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'll try it

I already have...that's my usual lunch, sorry it doesn't work! Dirt I'm not sure about, perhaps it's high in minerals.  [:D]

I'm workin' on a theory... will be chatting in the new year.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Happy Holidays, John!

For those of you who don't know, John is the VERY FIRST POSTER on this thread! February, 2007!

But, John! Now you're gonna keep us all in suspense about your new theory???? It's not fair!!!!!! [;D]
« Last Edit: 24/12/2008 22:10:45 by demografx »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2478 on: 24/12/2008 23:05:00 »
I have a bad back---M.D. says probably arthritis or whatever--Chiro says compressed disc, out of whack--Acupuncturist says blocked meridians--Massage Therapist says tight muscles--Psychiatrist says that area is focus of my stress etc. etc.--
I say physical overuse and injury is original cause made worse by anxiety/panic/POIS triggers etc.--How will I deal with it?? I have to reduce Anxiety and Panic and POIS-
For me ALL are related to my back--Sometimes Anxiety and POIS wander around a choose a new way to torment--None of these "specialists" talk to other "Specialists"--Our culture requires "specialists"--Our bodies and souls require more than that---THIS FORUM MAY PROVIDE THIS BRIDGE, however diplomacy and delicacy are very important---As an attorney (one of my professions), I think argumentation is not helpful. We need MORE great people like we already have--With MORE and more people sharing their stories, I am confident that MORE and more ideas will be tested, and eventually there will be
critical moments when many will be helped-----Synchronicity and Epiphany-----
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL-------I always always always always feel better after a good meal----

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2479 on: 25/12/2008 00:23:43 »
I have a bad back---M.D. says probably arthritis or whatever--Chiro says compressed disc, out of whack--Acupuncturist says blocked meridians--Massage Therapist says tight muscles--Psychiatrist says that area is focus of my stress etc. etc.--
I say physical overuse and injury is original cause made worse by anxiety/panic/POIS triggers etc.--How will I deal with it?? I have to reduce Anxiety and Panic and POIS-
For me ALL are related to my back--Sometimes Anxiety and POIS wander around a choose a new way to torment--None of these "specialists" talk to other "Specialists"--Our culture requires "specialists"--Our bodies and souls require more than that---THIS FORUM MAY PROVIDE THIS BRIDGE, however diplomacy and delicacy are very important---As an attorney (one of my professions), I think argumentation is not helpful. We need MORE great people like we already have--With MORE and more people sharing their stories, I am confident that MORE and more ideas will be tested, and eventually there will be
critical moments when many will be helped-----Synchronicity and Epiphany-----
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL-------I always always always always feel better after a good meal----


Underwater, I have a back problem with conflicting specialist theories, so I think I can empathize with your plight.

I agree with your philosophy. I think an eclectic view of POIS will do great things for all the suffering. And that is not something that a typical medical research study can provide! The studies are too often funded by pharmaceuticals who have a vested interest in mass-marketing an existing treatment.

With the organization/research skills of people like B_Jim and Counterpoints here, perhaps we will be able to synthesize the amazing amount of information on this site and develop some protocols that are customized according to the needs of specific POIS sub-groups, e.g., mainly cognitive symptoms, primarily exhaustion-based, etc.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2480 on: 25/12/2008 01:28:56 »
Steve--
Underwater,
 
I was inspired by your setting the bar so high to "swim 80 minutes a day."

I just finished trying that and it was great.

Thanks for the simple, practical idea.

Steve D.

 


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2481 on: 25/12/2008 02:50:40 »
Merry chrimas for all sufferers :) 2008 has been a great year for us : we made a good job and we have now real weapons to fight Pois for our all different states. Thanks to all for help.

Many thanks, B_Jim, you have contributed enormously here since your "founding" days...as the 2nd regular poster!

Merry Christmas!
« Last Edit: 25/12/2008 03:37:53 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2482 on: 25/12/2008 03:12:13 »
WORTH RE-VISITING: B_Jim's First Post (updated!)

More on POIS theories, here and elsewhere; links to POIS research; our experiments with Fenugreek and Relora; and more!
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg95285#msg95285

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2483 on: 25/12/2008 03:35:17 »
CHASTITY/ABSTINENCE

Demografx,

On beginning to read previous entries in this thread I saw that you have experimented with chastity. What was your overall impression with using that as a technique?
Steve D.

Thanks, Steve. It doesn't work (for me).

As several others have noted, Steve, abstaining/chastity eventually creates a tension for many people that can be as bad as POIS! In my case it has also led to depression, loss of libido and ED.

On the positive side, if one can and wants to handle chastity...comfortably...then one is cured of POIS!

For me, the current comfort level is approximately 4-5 weeks of abstention at a time.

Steve, above I said that, "As several others have noted, Steve, abstaining/chastity eventually creates a tension for many people that can be as bad as POIS!"

An example of "several others" is below:
There  is also the risk of stress and depression due to lack of  sexual release. It seems you just can't win.
« Last Edit: 25/12/2008 03:39:04 by demografx »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2484 on: 25/12/2008 04:38:26 »
Demographx,


>>>>Steve, above I said that, "As several others have noted, Steve, abstaining/chastity eventually creates a tension for many people that can be as bad as POIS!"


I want to be respectful and careful around other people's feelings and beliefs as we co-participate in creating meaningful solutions for all POIS sufferers.
I am surprised and impressed with the array of tools that people are employing to fight this illness and want to learn new things that will be helpful to me, and to humbly offer my experience, if it is useful to anyone else. Around the topic of sexual abstinence, I have never found a topic so incendiary and so quick to inflame fear, hatred and shame, however unintentional, in other human beings, POIS sufferers or not. So, I want to tread lightly here.

Some of the terrible fears in discussing this topic are the enormous spiritual abuses so many people have suffered at the hands of spiritual/religious authorities. Just the word 'celibacy' can bring back horrific, clarion child abuse memories in people.

Even the words 'sexual abstinence' can enflame rage in a person who has had to fight for their right to choose what is sexually appropriate for them...So, I'd like to be ginger here.

Respectfully,


Steve D.




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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2485 on: 25/12/2008 04:40:56 »
Okay Demografx and girlwind pls lets not get into any arguments, we are only here to solve a problem.  We should not criticize each other on things that dose not help the cause, we need to keep this forum as friendly and focused as possible.  Both of you have followed different routes that produced great information.  we all cant follow the same route unless this forum would not have lasted as long.  

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2486 on: 25/12/2008 04:46:21 »
I have been to doctor and got some blood work and according to him am a perfectly healthy guy.  I asked him about cortisol level and he said that my severe changes in cortisol level will affect my results so i should not worry about my cortisol level.   
I did this test in the heart of POIS.  It was not the worst pois ever but it was bad.
For TSH theories :  My TSH is 1.520  normal range .350  --- 5.5000/ my tsh seems pretty low to me.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2487 on: 25/12/2008 04:49:08 »
I have bought some fenugreek and will be posting on its effects in about two weeks.
I have decided to reduce use of relora since my cortisol level dose not seem to be affected and cortisol seems to be so important for the body's metabolism

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2488 on: 25/12/2008 04:50:54 »
srry to be getting personal
For those who have relationships how did you deal with POIS when going after an interest.
again srry to get personal but i need tips.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2489 on: 25/12/2008 05:03:04 »
srry to be getting personal
For those who have relationships how did you deal with POIS when going after an interest.
again srry to get personal but i need tips.

At what stage? After you are in a relationship, or while you are trying to start a relationship?

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2490 on: 25/12/2008 05:35:38 »
Merry Christmas everyone!

(I'm a 'Merry Christmas guy', not a 'happy holidays guy' so I had to represent for the Christmas crew.)

Peace :)

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2491 on: 25/12/2008 05:40:25 »
>>>>>>
sorry to be getting personal
For those who have relationships how did you deal with POIS when going after an interest.
again sorry to get personal but i need tips.

I have known that I had these symptoms for many years , but have not had a name for them until 6 days ago. I am in a relationship and sexually what I do is, negotiate with my partner to have genital-non orgasmic sexuality interspersed with periods of no genital contact at all.

That, and I try to do romantic loving things for her to kind of make up for the additional stress it causes her to be in relationship with a POIS sufferer. For example, I remember reading that Nat King Cole sent his wife a yellow rose every day of their marriage. I don't do that, but I do buy, write and send her a greeting card every single day. She likes that.

Steve D.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2492 on: 25/12/2008 11:19:57 »
Quote
But, John! Now you're gonna keep us all in suspense about your new theory???? It's not fair!!!!!!

Ok Demo, as you wish. But my theory isn't new, and peanut butter might even help. I am thinking thyroid.

A couple of weeks ago my double vision came back on me. Double vision can be a symptom of hyperthyroidism. I always thought that if I had this malady I would have more of the listed symptoms, but maybe not: http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/ijfp/vol4n2/diplopia.xml

I realized that at the time this returned I had been away from home and had changed my diet. And when I returned home I was trying new foods as well. Why would this matter? Because my typical evening meal was broccoli/cauliflower/carrot + potato + soybeans. Soy, broccoli and cauliflower are all goitrogenic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goitrogen

And as it happens, my typical lunch includes a PB&J sandwich, and peanut butter is on the list as well. So, what I unknowingly had was a diet well tailored to reducing somewhat the effects of an overactive thyroid. Could this explain my recent success post NE (rather than or in addition to garlic)? Well I had an NE yesterday morning and I definitely felt I was affected, although I have a cold making it harder to distinguish. Last night I loaded up on my typical goitrogenic supper and today I seem better already. If I am right a couple of intense weeks of this diet and my eyes might get better.

I am going to try to get some blood work done and if I am able to I will abandon this diet for a duration beforehand to try to prove the point. TSH plus freeT4 and freeT3 seem to be the tests to ask for.

Girlwind, I believe you are hypo? Do you find that you are sensitive to such foods?



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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2493 on: 25/12/2008 15:56:30 »
Hi Martin---
You mention that the slightest stress can trigger a more intense POIS experience (during POIS), where before this "stress trigger" there may have been close to a zero POIS manifestation. I think this happens to me all the time; during anxiety episodes and POIS episodes. I'm reluctant to say that certain things may help, because when I think I'm on to something, later I find that I am not. It's hard to avoid "stress triggers" in life, but I think we can strengthen our immune/nervous system overall to combat our problems. Girlwind seems to be focusing on a holistic approach,and I think she's very prescient. Granted, orgasm has its own neurochemical chain reactions, but I can't help thinking it isolated from our overall homeostatis.
     I used to do marathons back in the late 1970's and I ran long distance up to 4 years ago, when I switched to long distance swimming. My endorphins would keep me calm up to 90% of the time. However, stressful periods (with POIS or without) would
send me into discomfort. It seemed that POIS fit nicely in this mix and always made- and makes- things much worse. POIS seems to pile on my condition to make things intolerable (when I have it). Right now I'm trying to seriously work on supplements to my diet and remaining hydrated. This forum has helped a lot in getting me focused on diet, especially Girlwind's comments. I guess we all hope that a solution could be natural. If I feel that I have come upon some successful combination of my supplements I will report. I certainly have avoided sugar, alcohol and caffein for a long time. If I were to have a chocolate moose and a tall glass of champaign I would die, literally. Is that WEIRD??????????

I was expecting to have more informations about foods to help to stay ok when running such a long time. Perhaps it's only a view from myself because I tend to notice improvements in my energy with nutrition, but maybe you don't need this. I was also a long distance runner for a while: first, to achieve this, I had to stay completely sexually abstinent (I believe that a good description of pois is "low endurance", mentally or physically).
For me a high carb diet (low GI only) (pastas, bread) was particularly helpful to run long distances, along with wheat germ, raw liver (this was helping with breathing and relaxation in the mind), oysters, kelp (fucus vesiculosis), magnesium. Also I was carefully monitoring to eat enough of all existing nutrients, which is not always a good thing because of NEs ... !
After exercise, high protein was helpful to recover.
Just an other point, do you swim a long time in a pool with chlorine ? I'd be concerned if it's the case.  Excessive chlorine may cause problems with thyroid.
« Last Edit: 25/12/2008 15:59:15 by martin88 »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2494 on: 25/12/2008 16:09:00 »
Merry Christmas everyone!

(I'm a 'Merry Christmas guy', not a 'happy holidays guy' so I had to represent for the Christmas crew.)

Peace :)
I'm not belonging to any crew except this forum ! I wish to all Merry Christmas.




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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2495 on: 25/12/2008 16:45:16 »
I was experimenting with raw organic veganism with emphasis on extremely large quantities of living foods. It worked remarkably well in the sense that my sexual desire was eliminated( just as Gandhi's work states that it will) However I discovered through blood work 10 days ago that I have become iron, Vitamin D and b-12 deficient . This has been doubly vexing in that the weakness associated with anemia can be confused with POIS symptoms.
For 11 months I was plagued with anemia, but the POIS symptoms were completely gone. When I began to see my partner again 8 months ago, and engage in non-orgasmic sexuality, the 'onslaught' commenced. Through thoughtful negotiation, very careful sexual boundaries and the willingness of my partner I have avoided the full torrential consequences of POIS....Whew!
Hi SteveD, but my post adress to other as well.
Everytime I eat a vegan diet I feel a peace in the mind, a better nervous system in some way difficult to describe, along with joy. But I'm not willing to do this for a long time however because this effect is not permanent.

When you eat only vegetables, phosphorus is decreasing and this give a chance to other nutrients necessary to metabolize phosphorus to increase
(I insist on the "only" because vegetables have not the same effect otherwise.)

Also because of the reduced amount of proteins, there is a raise in B6 which is necessary for amino acids metabolism.

By the way, note that phosphorus is necessary for ATP production and for parathyroid gland. (We talked about adrenals, thyroid, pancreas, sexual glands, pineal gland, but a missing one is parathyroid, associated with calcium regulation and maybe tremors)

I strongly suggest to keep this somewhere in our theories :
Guaiafesin is used to treat phosphates intoxication in the body and may help with ATP production : It is used to treat fibromyalgia.
We now postulate that a defective metabolism, possibly a kidney enzyme, forces retention of phosphate, which gradually accumulates to detrimental levels in many tissues. This excess induces inadequate energy formation (ATP), cellular fatigue and malfunctions that explain all the symptoms of fibromyalgia. Our paper for interested professionals defends that theory.

     We no longer prescribe gout drugs (uricosurics). We now use guaifenesin for fibromyalgia because it has no side effects and is even safe for children
Source : http://www.fibromyalgiatreatment.com/GuaiProtocol.htm
« Last Edit: 25/12/2008 16:53:42 by martin88 »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2496 on: 25/12/2008 18:21:20 »
Hi Martin---
Over the last ten years or so, I have a very balanced diet. Plenty of protein and carboydrates. I need to consume more fruit. I am about 5'11' and weight about 165 lbs. with 9% body fat. Very little fat, sugar (processed), alcohol (none) and caffeine (none)in diet.. I need to eat about 5 small meals a day, but I don't. I can't believe I haven't the discipline to do this. This will be my new year's resolution. (by the way, my last blood test was normal, sugar, thyroid etc.)
When I did marathons (years ago), I ate like a pig, but still very little sugar and caffeine; though tons of carbos.  When I slowed down in the 90's, that's when POIS started manifesting itself significantly. POIS seemed to have reignited by panic disorder from the 1970's--I always dealt with the underlying anxiety/panic first (and still do). This is because POIS was tolerable though very uncomfortable, and CONSTANT anxiety is NOT. Right at the moment, I am dealing with my anxiety condition as usual, but POIS is messing it up. However, I feel some progress with my GAD, and am now completely off meds. For me, orgasm, NE's and erotic dreams can cause problems. Sometimes I don't know if its POIS, POIS LIKE, Sexual Anxiety, Panic etc.etc. This is because symptoms are so similar. Over the years, POIS for me has been defined by the 2-4 day recovery time frame that is so clearly delineated. It's like an anxiety episode with a specific time frame. Regarding Chlorine, I'm very aware of the research and potential dangers. In fact, right now I am swimming every other day to see if there's effect. Sorry if this is a rambling,incoherent answer. I just sat down and peeked at the site. Also, I am adding to my myriad of supplements all the time. This I will list this weekend, as I don't remember every one, and I don't feel like going downstairs right now. HOWEVER, I am going to take Girlwind's advice and focus on strengthening my adrenal glands and overall nervous system. I'm going to buy Adrenal Support supplements tomorrow. I have this intuition that I'm missisng something real simple, and that I've failed to scrutinize my diet, with regard to supplements (because it's a lot easier than changing my acutual food diet). Certainly this forum is helping me focus, but I hope that some rancor that I'm sensing ceases. Each contributor has the potential for creating an epiphany for another member, and we must always add new members; This is so logical. 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2497 on: 25/12/2008 19:56:38 »
I want to be respectful and careful around other people's feelings and beliefs as we co-participate in creating meaningful solutions for all POIS sufferers.
I am surprised and impressed with the array of tools that people are employing to fight this illness and want to learn new things that will be helpful to me, and to humbly offer my experience, if it is useful to anyone else. Around the topic of sexual abstinence, I have never found a topic so incendiary and so quick to inflame fear, hatred and shame, however unintentional, in other human beings, POIS sufferers or not. So, I want to tread lightly here.

Some of the terrible fears in discussing this topic are the enormous spiritual abuses so many people have suffered at the hands of spiritual/religious authorities. Just the word 'celibacy' can bring back horrific, clarion child abuse memories in people.

Even the words 'sexual abstinence' can enflame rage in a person who has had to fight for their right to choose what is sexually appropriate for them...So, I'd like to be ginger here.
Respectfully,
Steve D.

Steve, if I may respectfully submit to you: just my opinion, but we have all suffered POIS too long and too agonizingly to be "ginger". Many of us take risks here just by posting publicly about POIS and some incredibly private, confidential details!

But what's worse, risking someone's rage or staying in the hellish pits of POIS? I vote for the latter being worse. Much worse.

But I do appreciate your sensitivity.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2498 on: 25/12/2008 20:02:38 »
Merry Christmas everyone!
(I'm a 'Merry Christmas guy', not a 'happy holidays guy' so I had to represent for the Christmas crew.)
Peace :)

I happen to be a Happy Hanukkah guy, but I wish all a "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" as well! [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2499 on: 25/12/2008 20:10:13 »
Certainly this forum is helping me focus, but I hope that some rancor that I'm sensing ceases. Each contributor has the potential for creating an epiphany for another member, and we must always add new members; This is so logical. 

Underwater, I apologize for anything that I may have contributed recently to a less-than-harmonious environment. It has been extremely unusual for the forum since its inception. More than anything, I really do wish a very high esprit de corps here.