Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2550 on: 29/12/2008 17:48:43 »

......  My cortisol levels peaked the day of orgasm and gradually decreased for three days until back to normal.


That is not a fact just a theory.  I have not had any tests done.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2551 on: 29/12/2008 18:09:30 »
ALPHA 20C/Sunrider

Just received an email reply from my pharmacology-lawyer friend:

" [Demo], Alpha20C sounds dubious. "

I trust him.
« Last Edit: 29/12/2008 18:16:27 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2552 on: 29/12/2008 18:17:43 »
Tarkington the problem is some of us  have brain fog the second day (the worst day of pois). That's a big difference.

Well, my typical pois timing was like this :
First hours after orgasm : chills, shortness of breath (high cortisol?)
Some hours later : diarrheas
8-10 hours later : fever and flu-like symptoms
2nd day : brain fog/derealization.

B_Jim, I forgot: did your POIS have exhaustion/fatigue component?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2553 on: 29/12/2008 18:21:38 »
......  My cortisol levels peaked the day of orgasm and gradually decreased for three days until back to normal.
That is not a fact just a theory.  I have not had any tests done.

Tarkington, thank you! Very credible theory!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2554 on: 29/12/2008 18:25:50 »
It seems Dr Waldinger have just found explanation for PSAS. After, PE gene, he's on fire : maybe an explanation for Pois soon  [;)]

Thanks, B_Jim, I just sent Dr. Waldinger a congratulatory email.
« Last Edit: 29/12/2008 18:29:55 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2555 on: 29/12/2008 18:29:03 »
I still had POIS symptoms [with nocturnal emissions] but they were 10-15% as potent.

You're very fortunate. Mine were 100% POIS-potent.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2556 on: 29/12/2008 18:39:24 »
Curcuma increases cortisol.
This spice seems to best one the best antioxydant anti-inflammatory natural supplement and have effect on immunity and intestine. It might even have effect on Alzheimer disease.
Thanks a lot for this B_Jim(curcuma increases cortisol). I often eat curcuma. On the other side curcuma (turmeric) protects against cancer according to this researcher from an university and hospital. Also since it was mentionned here to avoid foods like brocoli etc (cruciferous) for thyroid, please check this list of foods against cancer at the bottom of this page :
http://preventioncancer.uqam.ca/Foods_cancer_Nutratherapy_EN.htm#Nutrimeds

http://preventioncancer.uqam.ca/Foods_cancer_presentation_EN.htm

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2557 on: 29/12/2008 18:54:49 »
according to an ebay web site (!) Alpha 20c contains this :

ALPHA 20 C
Booster for the Immune System (T-cells)
Ingredients: Chinese White Flower, Paris Herb, Scutellaria Herb, Dandelion, Bai-Mao Root, Imperate Root.

I know scutellaria is supposed to be good for nervous system. When I eat raw Dandelion leaves it can sometimes increase my energy (most likely when I'm sexually abstinent). It's a bitter herb (which have a special property around liver)

I don't know the other plants. It's said on the sunrider site it's plant for "wood condition", which (I think) is associated with the concept of liver in chinese medicine.

It's for me as dubious as other supplements we mention here but it can be very interesting if someone has information about a problem with this supplement.
« Last Edit: 29/12/2008 19:02:44 by martin88 »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2558 on: 29/12/2008 18:56:47 »
I still had POIS symptoms [with nocturnal emissions] but they were 10-15% as potent.

You're very fortunate. Mine were 100% POIS-potent.

I feel very fortunate in that regard. My hope is to commit to letting go of intentional orgasm permanently and begin to work on decreasing the debilitating, but much less so, effects of non-orgasmic sexuality. I also would like to start, slowly, developing other aspects of my life (career, education, finances) as I have devoted myself almost exclusively to solving the POIS symptoms the last 20 months. Just the fellowship here, plus the recent healing from anemia (caused by experiments to eliminate POIS) has given me more confidence, and I am grateful to everyone for their  personal contributions

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2559 on: 29/12/2008 19:09:53 »
Martin

>>>>It's for me as dubious as other supplements we mention here

My anemia is getting better with the use of iron and B-12 doctor recommended supplements, but now that it is, I'm adding back daily wheatgrass. Several people on this blog site mention that they are using an overall approach to strengthening the responsiveness of their central nervous system. Since we don't know what causes this , or what the therapy for it is, this approach makes common sense to me. I have never found a food supplement more helpful to  my overall health...It's a lot of work to grow, though!

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2560 on: 29/12/2008 19:22:55 »
Tried Relora for the first time four hours ago.

Felt headachy, heart palpitations, speedy, then sleepy, relaxed/sedated, libido diminution and a little druggy/high.

Steve D.

How much did you have?  This may be a psychological reaction....  I've taken it in pretty large doses before (1000+ mg), and I've never felt very different. At most, a little sleepy, or a little edgy... not enough for me to even know for sure whether this was the result of the drug.  When I drink alcohol, I can feel the difference.  When I have something like valium, I can definitely feel the difference.  When I take an antihystamine, I can tell whether or not it is working.  When I take Relora, I'm basically unsure of any difference.  To me, it does *not* feel like a *strong* drug at all (but it could very well be helping with POIS!).
« Last Edit: 29/12/2008 19:24:56 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2561 on: 29/12/2008 19:34:00 »
I've also been taking about 300 mg of phosphytidylserine per day.  And 5 mg bisoprolol/day (beta-blocker).  Plus some B6, and Ashwaganda.  So a lot of cortisol reducing supplements!

Just curious, CP, besides Relora, how did you come up with this protocol to reduce cortisol? Thanks.

I first found out about phosphytidylserine, ashwaganda and B6, from an article on cortisol, I gave in an earlier post (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/757599.html).  Since then I've consulted with some people who work in supplement stores, and have done some reading.  A PhD researcher who works with endocrinologists said that a beta blocker probably reduces cortisol.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2562 on: 29/12/2008 19:42:37 »

CCc, this is very interesting. I experienced this and researched it and it was called "brain orgasm". But brain orgasms never led to POIS for me. But brain orgasms w/nocturnal emissions did.
[/quote]

really it didnt  that is interesting and am cofused. Have you figure any ways to emitt without orgasm that will be way to see  what is the tru culprit.

Yeah i read people with spinal cord injuries say they experience orgams in areas of their body other genitals.  Some say if you touch their hand that is good enough to give orgasm.  I thought that was nuts but interesting.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2563 on: 29/12/2008 19:48:41 »


Also since Fenugreek is supposed to increase cortisol and Relora decreases, perhaps either Relora or Fenugreek are the solution for the brain fog and mental problems.  It's only a matter of whether your body increases or decreases cortisol after orgasm.  If Fenugreek works then maybe its because immediately after orgasm those people have a large decrease in cortisol with the same effects as a large increase in cortisol (that doesn't make sense to me... how can a low amount have the same effects as a high amount) 

Just throwing out my opinion and thinking aloud... any ideas?
[/quote]


i think i can clear up ur confusion a little, cortisol is very important in body for metabolism of all the food you eat.  am thinking if cortisol drops to much and food is not being metabolize it is definately going to affect body.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2564 on: 29/12/2008 19:50:03 »
SteveD : have Iron had an effect on your Pois ?

I don't know. I was drinking 4-8 ounces of wheatgrass, three times a day ,for many months and felt free from the desire to be sexual which 'cured' me of POIS. I did not get enough iron or B-12 and began to feel weak and tired... and just wanted to sleep. I knew I was not experiencing depression, so I got five pieces of blood work and a urinalysis done.
I began, three weeks ago today, at a doctor's direction, to take supplements. My strength is returning. I have not had a POIS episode until the night before last. In truth, it was less devastating but still very costly (see post from 12/28/08). I'm not sure what to attribute it to. Some guesses are that 1) the amount of semen lost was small. 2) The intentionality  was not to be orgasmic and this I'm finding, more and more, to be a significant factor in the severity of my POIS symptoms 3) I'm working out extremely hard 4) I'm fasting a lot this week and that is very helpful to me 5) I'm working with others on the phone, in person, and online, and the perspective that comes from that seems to help diminish the symptoms as well.
But, it could have been spurious, plain dumb luck!

In years past my iron level has been fine and I still experienced POIS, so I'm reluctant to ascribe my recent experience to Iron

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2565 on: 29/12/2008 19:51:39 »
Coreman

How many time has alpha 20 worked.
Have you tried using it without wellbutrin and the other medication
Have you being using wellburin and other medication without noticing difference and only notice difference after using alpha 20c
 
am interested in using it but it so expensive.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2566 on: 29/12/2008 19:55:21 »


CCconfucious,

>>>i think i can clear up ur confusion a little, cortisol is very important in body for metabolism of all the food you eat.  am thinking if cortisol drops to much and food is not being metabolize it is definately going to affect body.

That makes some sense to me. I notice that when I experience POIS I almost immediately want to eat more food and sleep more

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2567 on: 29/12/2008 20:10:41 »
>>>><
Tried Relora for the first time four hours ago.

Felt headachy, heart palpitations, speedy, then sleepy, relaxed/sedated, libido diminution and a little druggy/high.

Steve D.
>>>>How much did you have?  This may be a psychological reaction....  I've taken it in pretty large doses before (1000+ mg), and I've never felt very different. At most, a little sleepy, or a little edgy... not enough for me to even know for sure whether this was the result of the drug.  When I drink alcohol, I can feel the difference.  When I have something like valium, I can definitely feel the difference.  When I take an antihystamine, I can tell whether or not it is working.  When I take Relora, I'm basically unsure of any difference.  To me, it does *not* feel like a *strong* drug at all (but it could very well be helping with POIS!).

I tried 300 MG. My experience last night was kind of close to what Demografx describes below. I am going to continue it today, but my sense is, side efects aside, that this is not near potent enough for me to offset the extreme physical energy losses I experience...but we'll see



RELORA

"Relora is a plant extract. Because the actual active ingredients are not discernible, there's no way to know what the interactions with other drugs might be. Therefore, I would recommend not taking it with Rx drugs,or with OTC drugs either.

This is what the manufacturer says: [Note the elevation in BP]

'side effects also include dizziness, trouble sleeping, and higher blood pressure.'  "
Quote from: demografx on 28/10/2008 14:42:35

IMPORTANT: ...RELORA - PLEASE READ!




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Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2568 on: 29/12/2008 23:21:00 »
that is interesting that you mentioned food and metabolism in relation to cortisol.  I don't think I have mentioned this before, but within a day after orgasm I have no appetite.  I have a "sick to my stomach" feeling which prevents me from eating almost anything except ice cold sodas. After about a day that feeling disappears

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2569 on: 29/12/2008 23:53:02 »
Hi Tarkington--
Your description of POIS is very close to mine. Insomnia first night with sweating, tension, anxiety and chills. Second day involves fatigue, depression and continued anxiety with chills, but usually a slightly improved sleep. Third and fourth days general anxiety, mild depression and improving stamina, but still a little fatigued.
During this whole period I am anti-social and don't feel like using my mind. Also during this whole period I have muscle tightness and inflammation, expecially in lower back etc. USUALLY by day five it's gone; but it may linger. I've always assumed, for me, that adrenaline kicks the whole thing off until it combines with my high cortisol levels. Adrenaline eases after a day or so but the cortisol stays high.
I think that those of us here (and from my reading I think there are a few)who also have anxiety issues, there is a conflating of the two i.e. POIS make the anxiety worse and anxiety makes the POIS worse. This is why, for me, I always work on my general anxiety first. I can't really "work" on POIS, because I've never found anything that consistently worked. However, I am going to give Relora a try. Also, I have added Garlic to my daily supplements. Interestingly, when I feel real good (non-pois for many weeks due to lack of "O"), I am a lot less anxious about POIS. However, the last month or so my general anxiety condition has been horrible, thus necessitating that I really avoid "O". 

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2570 on: 30/12/2008 00:08:39 »
underwater: you say you have "mild depression", "general anxiety", social anxiety, and you "don't like using your mind", while in "POIS".  Yet earlier you said you didn't have mental symptoms, only physical?

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2571 on: 30/12/2008 00:15:02 »
Counterpoints, I read that you may occasionally use valium. I've used Benzos over the years for my Anxiety, but I never specifically tried it before or after "O". Have you ever experimented with it in regards to POIS? I've often thought about trying it as an after pill. Also, I've always used very small (subtherapeutic) doses. Never more than 1 mg. a day.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2572 on: 30/12/2008 00:25:08 »
Hi Counterpoints---
Yes, I have a difficult time using my mind, and I will prefer not to engage. But, since I was in education for many years, I was often lecturing or having meetings at undesirable times. I don't think I have the "brain fog" that many people here describe nor the intensity of cognitive disorientation, but rather a very diminished form of "mental" discomfort. Still a very bothersome reaction. For me, it's never really been brain fog and fatigue as the two prime symptoms, but rather tension, anxiety, depression and fluctuating body temperatures. I often feel like a have been plugged into an electric outlet with a mild current.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2573 on: 30/12/2008 02:03:35 »
CCc, this is very interesting. I experienced this and researched it and it was called "brain orgasm". But brain orgasms never led to POIS for me. But brain orgasms w/nocturnal emissions [i.e., wet dreams] did [lead to POIS].

really it didnt  that is interesting and am cofused. Have you figure any ways to emitt without orgasm that will be way to see  what is the tru culprit.

Emit without orgasm?? I don't think that's possible!
Weak orgasm, maybe, but not zero.

Yeah i read people with spinal cord injuries say they experience orgams in areas of their body other genitals.  Some say if you touch their hand that is good enough to give orgasm.  I thought that was nuts but interesting.

Extra-genital orgasm? That's news to me! I think it's totally different from "brain orgasm", if that's what you were referring to.

"Brain orgasm" is basically just a wet dream...but without the "wet" [:)] In other words, the orgasm is strictly within your mind, and it's completely detached from your body, so no emission occurs! And "climax" feeling can be just as intense as reality.
« Last Edit: 30/12/2008 03:22:58 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2574 on: 30/12/2008 02:12:25 »
Counterpoints, I read that you may occasionally use valium. I've used Benzos over the years for my Anxiety, but I never specifically tried it before or after "O". Have you ever experimented with it in regards to POIS? I've often thought about trying it as an after pill. Also, I've always used very small (subtherapeutic) doses. Never more than 1 mg. a day.

From Oct. 2006 to January 2007, I used 0.5 mg Lorazepam pills.  Lorazepam (tradename Ativan) is a benzodiazepine like Valium.  It has a shorter half-life, and it's faster acting.  So it's better than valium for panic attacks.  (It's also used in smaller dosages).  I could feel the effects within 10-20 minutes.  I had them prescribed to me specifically for dealing with POIS symptoms.  I tried taking one to two 0.5mg pills about 40 minutes prior to orgasm, and sometimes one after.  It did help me cope, but I didn't feel POIS was noticeably improved. However, my POIS was better than it ever has been, from Dec. 2006 to Feb. 2008.  So maybe it somehow "reset" my system in a way that helped more than I thought... maybe I started to associate orgasm with relaxation, and that had a chemical effect?  Just some wild speculation. :-)

Coreman has reported good results with Clonazepam (another benzodiazepine).  It has helped with his POIS.  And looking up Clonazepam on Wikipedia, I just noticed something very very interesting!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazapam:
Clonazepam decreases release of acetylcholine in cat brain [3] and decreases prolactin release.[4]
« Last Edit: 30/12/2008 02:16:39 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2575 on: 30/12/2008 02:42:41 »
I often feel like a have been plugged into an electric outlet with a mild current.

I often feel like someone pulled the plug on me [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2576 on: 30/12/2008 02:49:49 »
Clonazepam decreases release of acetylcholine in cat brain  and decreases prolactin release

Fascinating news, CP! Didn't know if you saw that my recent labwork revealed 400% higher-than-average prolactin! (Waiting for brain/pituitary gland scan results). I just sent my endo an email trying to convince him that I'm a cat! = ^ . . ^ =

...my POIS was better than it ever has been, from Dec. 2006 to Feb. 2008.

What do you think happened after Feb. 2008?
« Last Edit: 30/12/2008 03:07:24 by demografx »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2577 on: 30/12/2008 03:15:46 »
Counterpoints--
Clonazepam (klonopin) is a powerful Benzo. 20 mg. of valium = 1 mg. Clonazepam.
Used it a lot in the 90's-- Worked quite well for me then, all around. I tried it again this year, and, no go; worthless--Hit tolerance/withdrawal fast-----------
The general problem with Clonazepam is that if it works - and you take modest to significant daily doses (1mg-2mg) for extended periods of time - and then it stops being effective, you have to taper slowly or there may be serious problems. [I used it with Zoloft from 93-95, then Klonopin alone for the next few years.] I'm considering experimenting with an SSRI, but I'm waiting. I want to exhaust all homeopathic avenues. I may try Relora, and I have another product that sits next to my bed unused-- I am paranoid about all drugs. But I do know one thing, and that is over the last 20 years when I have felt real good for long stretches of time, often the POIS recovery time has been "tolerable"---This hasn't been the case this year, but I hope to return to the "tolerable" condition. This forum has the potential to evolve into a great scientific community. Thank you for your trail blazing--------- 

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Offline tarkington

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2578 on: 30/12/2008 03:49:28 »
Hi Tarkington--
Your description of POIS is very close to mine. Insomnia first night with sweating, tension, anxiety and chills. Second day involves fatigue, depression and continued anxiety with chills, but usually a slightly improved sleep. Third and fourth days general anxiety, mild depression and improving stamina, but still a little fatigued.
During this whole period I am anti-social and don't feel like using my mind. Also during this whole period I have muscle tightness and inflammation, expecially in lower back etc. USUALLY by day five it's gone; but it may linger. I've always assumed, for me, that adrenaline kicks the whole thing off until it combines with my high cortisol levels. Adrenaline eases after a day or so but the cortisol stays high.
I think that those of us here (and from my reading I think there are a few)who also have anxiety issues, there is a conflating of the two i.e. POIS make the anxiety worse and anxiety makes the POIS worse. This is why, for me, I always work on my general anxiety first. I can't really "work" on POIS, because I've never found anything that consistently worked. However, I am going to give Relora a try. Also, I have added Garlic to my daily supplements. Interestingly, when I feel real good (non-pois for many weeks due to lack of "O"), I am a lot less anxious about POIS. However, the last month or so my general anxiety condition has been horrible, thus necessitating that I really avoid "O". 


Underwater I hope Relora works for you, we have almost identical symptoms. Question:  How do you know your cortisol is high?
I agree with you that anxiety issues in the first place make POIS worse and POIS makes anxiety issues worse. I am surprised that combination doesn't drive us insane. Just stay strong.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2579 on: 30/12/2008 04:09:48 »
Fascinating news, CP! Didn't know if you saw that my recent labwork revealed 400% higher-than-average prolactin! (Waiting for brain/pituitary gland scan results).
This is very encouraging Demo, but I think we are among the rare people on the planet who are happy to find bad results in a lab test. In a way it's sad to be at this point!

I heard about a MD naturopath who was treating erectile dysfunction with bromocriptine. Maybe you could ask information about it to your endocrino when the time of treatment will come. If anyone has experience about this it will be appreciated if you post here.

Bromocriptine seems to be the miracle drug : cocaine withdrawal, hypogonadism, hyperprolactinemia. Also :
There appear to be some connections between insulin insensitivity and dopamine. A company is using bromocriptine to treat diabetes and obesity, and their website postulates a connection between neurotransmitters and seasonal variation in insulin sensitivity among vetebrate animals.[5] There are also some connections between temperature and dopamine and serotonin production
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromocriptine

Unfortunately I think other drugs to reduce hyperprolactinemia have been tested (mentionned here) without success for pois.

« Last Edit: 17/11/2009 03:13:41 by martin88 »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2580 on: 30/12/2008 04:16:55 »
Underwater,  Klonopin is supposed to be good for social phobia. Is it your experience  ?

Clonazepam decreases release of acetylcholine in cat brain   
CP I'm not sure if it's good to decrease acetylcholine in our cases. But it's a very nice finding for prolactin.

Steve, what were the effects of this supplement you mention (wheatgrass), except decreasing libido ?

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2581 on: 30/12/2008 04:17:11 »
Tarkington, I don't know for sure that my cortisol levels are high.
However, montintoring my condition for decades with a lot of reading, I am confident that my initial response to stress or any hyperexciation is a fight or flight response with the release of adrenaline. This is have felt and know for over 30 years. The initial feelings are the same for Panic, Anxiety and POIS. However with POIS, there is an added release that is different from epinephrine. I feel this. I actually sense the release of these chemicals in my body, like I'm possessed by......
I've always assumed this to be Cortisol WITHOUT a counterbalance neurotransmitter.
After Cortisol, the third culprit may be Prolactin. I believe there may be a large chain reaction of these different hormones simply because Orgasm is so powerful. What I don't get is how exactly Dopamine, Serotonin and GABA play into this. Is Dopamine the critical neurotransmitter in this. Is it SKY HIGH also in Orgasm and then just disappears?

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2582 on: 30/12/2008 04:29:54 »
Martin, when I used Klonopin in the 90's it worked real well. It wiped out my panic/anxiety condition, was very effective in keeping me healthy in social situations, and reduced my POIS. I think I was on it for 5-6 years in the 90's and maybe 2002-2003------However, I voluntarily stopped using it both times. I just didn't want to be on drugs my whole life. This year it was useless. My brain didn't like it. The drug scares me. Even this year on a .75 mg. daily dose for 3 months took me 90 days to taper!!!!!

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2583 on: 30/12/2008 04:52:02 »
"Brain orgasm" is basically just a wet dream...but without the "wet" happy In other words, the orgasm is strictly within your mind, and it's completely detached from your body, so no emission occurs! And "climax" feeling can be just as intense as reality.


Say that again, it woke me up from a great dream.

The extra genital orgasms occurs  on people who their genitals cannot produce orgasms because of an accident.   
It is kinda of wierd but it takes the focus from genitals to brain when it comes to orgasms.


Good find on prolactin, when i see uroloist i will definately tell him to look out for it.

Did you take your test out of pois or during pois or viceversa.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2584 on: 30/12/2008 04:57:06 »
Does anyone one else experiences this

I know am out of pois when after about a week i get these crazy rise in energy/mental clarity/ and mind becomes quicker than usual and i cant stop talking and cracking jokes.  After two days i go back to normal without pois.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2585 on: 30/12/2008 05:09:58 »
thanks Martin for Alpha 20 ingredients.

B_Jim, and Martin, can we really be certain that an eBay reference for Alpha 20C is legitimate?

I went to the eBay site, and the bottle label reads that Alpha 20C is "approved by BFAD". I looked it up, BFAD is the Bureau of Food and Drugs in the Phillippines. I won't say that's necessarily bad, but I just don't know anything about Filipino health standards for supplements.

And why does this Torrance, California company seek health certification and approval from The Phillipines and not from its own country?

Just found this: according to a quote in a 2006 article about health care in The Phillipines in The International Herald Tribune (part of The New York Times), "Corruption here is overwhelming, and that includes the health care field."

The expensive cost of all their products, the pyramid-selling "distributor" marketing scheme of the product, the very questionable foreign "certification" and my friend's warning, are serious red flags, in my mind.

The Sunrider (Alpha 20C manufacturer) website doesn't promise health, it promises to "help people around the world achieve success and financial independence with our rewarding business opportunity." In other words, pyramid, multi-level marketing. Where the least aggressive people (in selling Sunrider products) can lose all their money in the company to more aggressive "recruiters".

B_Jim, keep in mind that my pharmacology-lawyer friend who thinks Alpha 20C is "dubious" is responsible for tracking pharmaceuticals and supplements for one of the largest populated U.S. states.
« Last Edit: 30/12/2008 06:03:04 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2586 on: 30/12/2008 05:16:46 »
Does anyone one else experiences this

I know am out of pois when after about a week i get these crazy rise in energy/mental clarity/ and mind becomes quicker than usual and i cant stop talking and cracking jokes.  After two days i go back to normal without pois.

Yes, but my jokes are not much better than in-POIS [;D]

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2587 on: 30/12/2008 05:29:48 »

       Hi I  was reading your book the science of orgasm. It was a great book and i didnt know there was so much science behind an orgasm.   I am writting you this mail to ask you about a situation of mine and about 150 other people. Instead of having the usual great benefits of an orgasm, ours results in a devastaing mode where our mental functions get jumbled.   The conding has been termed, by the Dutch Doctor Marcel Waldinger, as Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome.
    These are some of the symptoms pois
- Fatigue
- Brain Fog
- Memory Problems.
- Flu like symptoms.
- Deprivation of social skills
- Concentration affected
I was wondering if you can shed some light on this situation for us on these situation.  Most of our doctors have never seen such a case before and are baffled.  I was also wondering during your reasearch if ran across a simlar situation.

This is youtube link that better sumarizes the situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

This is the link to our forum where we discuss new foundings and theroies on our situation. http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.0;topicseen

 Your efforts will be greatly appreciated.


I sent this message to the authors of the book The Science of Orgasm. Am hoping they are helpful since they did so a lot of research into orgasms.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2588 on: 30/12/2008 06:05:05 »
Martin,

>>>>Steve, what were the effects of this supplement you mention (wheatgrass), except decreasing libido ?

Decreasing libido was an effect I felt the first night from the Relora. Today is day two and I feel a little speedy, like on caffeine.


Wheatgrass is a grass I grow on the roof of my building, in 17"X17" trays, in a soil of organic cocoanut shavings from Sri Lanka...Talk about obscure!

I gave up red meat 20 years ago when I gave alcohol, drugs, cigarettes and caffeine. Some remarkable man said I could 'get in touch with my feelings more' if I gave up red meat. As crazy as he sounded to me, at the time, that proved to be true, so I tried giving up white meat, dairy, eggs, flour and sugar...slowly, over 20 years and found that every surrender led me to better health and a better emotional life.

A friend liked what he saw it did for me and went to the Living Foods Institute in Atlanta. He came back and taught me about raw foods and living foods. Of the living foods group wheatgrass is far and away he most potent food for healing and health purposes in my experience.

20 months ago, in an attempt to solve the POIS problem I gathered nine natural foods experts around me and began to take wheat grass in volume, at it's peak 48 ounces a day, generally 12 ounces a day.The most remarkable result was that my desire to be sexual went away, which is what I wanted. Gandhi said "Complete control of the palette made observance of the vow of celibacy very easy". NE's aside, I knew it was my desire for sex that set me up for POIS.

It worked perfectly for 11 months. Then I thought I would see if I could date and maintain that condition. I could not. The food worked as long as I was alone, but with a potential sexual partner food was not powerful enough.

Further, in the experiment process I developed anemia and have been eating red meat every day for the last three weeks along with supplements.

The choices at the moment appear to be
1) be completely healed and healthy and manage the attendant loneliness
2) abandon myself and my knowledge of the truth about POIS and fall backwards into the symptoms
3) compromise and work out a liveable deal...that's what I'm choosing today
  

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2589 on: 30/12/2008 06:26:40 »
Does anyone one else experiences this

I know am out of pois when after about a week i get these crazy rise in energy/mental clarity/ and mind becomes quicker than usual and i cant stop talking and cracking jokes.  After two days i go back to normal without pois.


I experience an increase in clarity, intuition, interpersonal boundaries, and resilience to abuse and I'm funnier...or at least I think so

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2590 on: 30/12/2008 07:46:05 »
Higher blood pressure causing petulance in me...discontinuing Relora

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2591 on: 30/12/2008 16:43:42 »
Steve--
Regarding your 3 choices:
I concur that finding a liveable compromise is the best.
I'm confident that with experimentation/research of all variables that may contribute to our symptoms there will inevitably be incremental improvement leading to diminished symptoms. Like yesterday: I took a 3 hour walk. I had felt pretty bad in the A.M. (not POIS related). Right in middle of walk I did something I never do. I had a cheeseburger with bacon and avocados. Big greasy mess. 1/2 lb. It gave me a huge boost and  I slept like a baby last night. Who knows? Have a great day-------------------

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2592 on: 30/12/2008 17:20:50 »
My experience with SUNRIDER products:

The Sunrider products became the latest rage in cure-all supplements (where I live) in
the late 1980's. I discovered them when a friend gave me a video tape of testimonials
from people who had taken the Sunrider herbs for various health conditions. One person
who stood out on the tape was a man whose story I was so impressed with that I tracked
him down and got to know him. This guy, who I will call HB, had been completely cured
of a serious long term immune condition with Sunrider products. HB was a very brilliant
and successful computer nerd (in the days when those were a rarity), a VERY analytical
scientifically minded person. He had consulted and studied with some of the smartest
immune specialists and alternative doctors in the country. Of all the MANY things he tried
to improve his health, Sunrider was his ace in the hole.

According to HB's experience, Sunrider is what "saved his life" and brought his completely
debilitated immune system back from near zero.  (This is someone who had a T Cell count
so low that his doctor told him, "one more insult to his immune system"--like a cold, and
"he would no longer have an immune system.") HB took the entire Sunrider quinary of pro-
ducts: Prime Again, Alpha 20C, Conco, Assimilaid, Lifestream in LARGE doses, along with
many quarts of Calli tea each day (used for weight loss, and also for detoxification). He had
to take the Sunrider herbs for many years consistently to get completely well, but he felt
generally better within a few months.

When I tried the Sunrider, I couldn't handle certain of their products. Alpha 20C is the one
specifically for immunity, and that's the one I had the hardest time with. When I asked my
herbalist/acupuncturist about Sunrider, (a guy who studied in China, wrote extensive re-
search papers on Chinese herbs and taught acupuncture school for 25 years), he called it
the "everything but the kitchen sink remedy." According to him, Sunrider was "cheap herbs
with a big mark up." He thought the basic formulations were "beverage quality" tonics,
too non-specific to be considered "medicinal" for most people, but generally harmless as
well.

Because I have used the very best quality of Chinese herbs--the Sun Ten brand, I don't
find anything that compares to that. But Sunrider herbs in general have a good reputation
for quality, and I have heard virtually NO complaints from anyone who has taken them
consistently for any length of time.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2593 on: 30/12/2008 18:09:42 »
Gee whiz, Girlwind I don't know what to say! You are The POIS Forum Expert on supplements and alternative therapies, so I almost didn't post this email from my pharmacology-lawyer friend.

But I guess that's what forums are for, to post pros/cons, but then the reader makes up his/her mind.

So here's my friend's (he's a pharmacist-lawyer with a major State Govt. health agency) email this morning: " [Demo], the more I think about it, the more I believe Alpha 20C is totally bogus. The FDA in the US would not approve an herbal supplement, yet. That law is going to change eventually. I would trust anything that the BFAD [the "approval" agency listed on Alpha 20C bottle] says  is OK as much as I would trust anything coming out of China these days."

Girlwind, I trust your judgement. Also the very first comment I posted from a cancer-user of Sunrider was very positive (except for Sunrider's marketing strategy).

But I just don't know why Sunrider would advertise a questionable foreign health agency approving their products.
« Last Edit: 30/12/2008 18:44:18 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2594 on: 30/12/2008 18:45:51 »
It is a difficult issue. Imagine if tommorow I create a "magic sexual elixir!" with fenugreek, scientists and doctors will think i'm crazy. But fore rare cases (Pois!) it will work :)

B_Jim, yes! I want to buy your Magic Sexual Elixir! Now!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2595 on: 30/12/2008 19:01:49 »

Wishing everyone
a POIS-free or
POIS-reduced



HAPPY NEW YEAR!

« Last Edit: 30/12/2008 19:03:35 by demografx »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2596 on: 31/12/2008 02:34:48 »
Steve--
Regarding your 3 choices:
I concur that finding a liveable compromise is the best.
I'm confident that with experimentation/research of all variables that may contribute to our symptoms there will inevitably be incremental improvement leading to diminished symptoms. Like yesterday: I took a 3 hour walk. I had felt pretty bad in the A.M. (not POIS related). Right in middle of walk I did something I never do. I had a cheeseburger with bacon and avocados. Big greasy mess. 1/2 lb. It gave me a huge boost and  I slept like a baby last night. Who knows? Have a great day-------------------


LOL...I certainly don't know or I wouldn't be here!

So far what makes the best sense to me is to take great care of my whole body and what ever specific part is being injured by orgasm will improve as well.
I'm going to go swimming later and my plan is to pump  it up from 80 to 90 minutes!!! That's a 50% increase from my previous commitment. I got that idea from your post . It's helping.

On another note: I was in therapy with my partner yesterday. I've been telling her about this, on and off, for 2 years. It has been much more palatable since our therapist told us about long refractory periods and introduced us to the name POIS and this blog site. It seems to me that, when push comes to shove, there is agreement, at the moment,however unpalatable, that the most effective tool against POIS is sexual abstinence. Yesterday, in therapy, my partner agreed to accept that I am not going to be orgasmic in our relationship. We actually have not been for 20 months, but now it's a negotiated agreement between us. The therapist and she were grieving, mightily. Frankly I am overjoyed at just being able to have sexual contact at all!

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2597 on: 31/12/2008 04:46:03 »
Wheatgrass is a grass I grow on the roof of my building, in 17"X17" trays, in a soil of organic cocoanut shavings from Sri Lanka...Talk about obscure!

I gave up red meat 20 years ago when I gave alcohol, drugs, cigarettes and caffeine. Some remarkable man said I could 'get in touch with my feelings more' if I gave up red meat. As crazy as he sounded to me, at the time, that proved to be true, so I tried giving up white meat, dairy, eggs, flour and sugar...slowly, over 20 years and found that every surrender led me to better health and a better emotional life.

A friend liked what he saw it did for me and went to the Living Foods Institute in Atlanta. He came back and taught me about raw foods and living foods. Of the living foods group wheatgrass is far and away he most potent food for healing and health purposes in my experience.

20 months ago, in an attempt to solve the POIS problem I gathered nine natural foods experts around me and began to take wheat grass in volume, at it's peak 48 ounces a day, generally 12 ounces a day.The most remarkable result was that my desire to be sexual went away, which is what I wanted.  

SteveD
I'm amazed that you can ingest that much wheat grass. When I drink just 4 oz., it gives me nausea. I'm thinking
that might be a detox reaction, but whatever it is, it's hard to stomach. Have you had that problem with it? Or
is there some way to remedy that, so the nausea is less intense?

Also, with raw foods... I can eat so much raw food in summer and it seems to make me feel better (though I do eat
meat as well in small "medicinal" doses). But in winter when it's cold out, I can't do it. I am cold all the time, even
while eating hot soups. How do the living foods people deal with that? Do they all live in hot climates? Or just set
their thermostat to 80 degrees.   [:D]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2598 on: 31/12/2008 05:00:54 »
Girlwind, you mention nausea. I have it all the time but Reglan effectively counters it. I'm not thrilled taking it for so many years.

GI doc says "irritable bowel syndrome" but I think they say that when they have no clue what's wrong.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2599 on: 31/12/2008 05:22:44 »
Thank you Girlwind for your post! At least we know the product seemed to be safe in 1980... Demo is right that it's not a good thing to find the ingredients only on ebay... But If the product is helpful why not. Maybe Coreman will confirm for the ingredients, if he's still ok with it! Then we'll be able to study the properties of the ingredients. Obviously this need a confirmation without taking wellbutrin etc. Maybe the alpha20c is only helping with the side effects of these drugs.

Steve you never make things "half" (I don't know the right expression) and that's a good thing! I'm wondering if wheatgrass is lowering libido or if it's your whole diet. Perhaps you're right because I know that green foods make me anxious sometimes, specially in pois. I think my anxiety arrives more easily in pois when I eat foods decreasing libido while I'm around pois. There is a close link between lack of libido and anxiety for me. By libido I understand pleasure, with sexual attraction, not an urgent need of ejaculation, it's different.

Underwater, your experience with clonazepam is helpful for me because I plan to take this for very occasional use when I really need it in important social situations. Drugs scare me too that's why I take nothing!
« Last Edit: 02/01/2009 05:18:11 by martin88 »