Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2750 on: 10/01/2009 10:54:07 »
DR. MARCEL WALDINGER: UPDATE

(I've been keeping up my end of the correspondence with Dr. Waldinger, some email, passing on a question that B_Jim had about cortisol and also trying to get feedback on if/when he can assist us more directly - Demo)


January 10, 2009

Dear [Demo],
 
Thank you for your e-mail. As said, I will try to focus more on POIS in the next months. I will keep you updated.
 
With best regards,
 
Dr. M.D. Waldinger
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 11:23:18 by demografx »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2751 on: 10/01/2009 11:07:58 »
"A lover always thinks of his mistress first and himself second; with a husband it runs the other way," "The more one judges, the less one loves." ??

(Just giving you a hard time, Steve [;D])


When you get to 1000 posts will you get to be Jesus Member? ...Just funnin' ya
OK, I'll ignore that, although others here might not wish to.


Hmmm,

Not quite the rhythm I was expecting, but if that hurt you Demo...my humble apologies. You can see why comedy is not my profession...


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2752 on: 10/01/2009 11:12:02 »


Enough of this chastity talk. Nothing engenders hate, shame and fear like this topic...



I hope I wasn't too curt or abrupt, Steve, when I responded to some of your points above very briefly ("moderately disagree" or "strongly disagree"). I would really like to respect your personal view and stated wish to be done with chastity/abstinence chat.

However, I thoroughly welcome - from anyone - any and all continued discussion on the subject of chastity or abstinence, both pro and con.

As I mentioned, I consider it a crucial topic to POIS and as we are mature adults, I do not feel there is any need to discuss it here with any "hate, shame or fear".
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 11:49:31 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2753 on: 10/01/2009 11:16:41 »
Hmmm,

Not quite the rhythm I was expecting, but if that hurt you Demo...my humble apologies. You can see why comedy is not my profession...

No, Steve, as I mentioned, the comedic Jesus reference did not offend me, but I am concerned about others here who have expressed certain religious beliefs.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2754 on: 10/01/2009 11:36:27 »
Hmmm,

Not quite the rhythm I was expecting, but if that hurt you Demo...my humble apologies. You can see why comedy is not my profession...

No, Steve, as I mentioned, the comedic Jesus reference did not offend me, but I am concerned about others here who have expressed certain religious beliefs.

Newbie, Jr. Member, Full Member, Sr. Member, Hero Member, Jesus Member...If you have to explain the jokes they are no good.

I am a cradle Episcopalian and was asked by the Catholic church to become a monk in 94 and the Episcopal church to become a priest in 88.
If humor and the word Jesus are not compatible here, I can easily respect those boundaries, Daddy-o

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2755 on: 10/01/2009 11:46:57 »
If humor and the word Jesus are not compatible here, I can easily respect those boundaries, Daddy-o

Fine. But I can do without the sarcastic "Daddy-o".

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2756 on: 10/01/2009 11:54:56 »
After a lot of prayer and mediation I've decided I'm going to start working on the phase of POIS that immediately precedes orgasm...genital sexuality. After squarely facing POIS for 18 years and now feeling content and satisfied I'm remembering an old saying "If you're not moving forward, then you're moving backward". I can feel some very, very strong pulls to engage in behaviors that would be clearly bad for me, because I'm not trying as hard to 'do the next right thing' to solve the POIS...so, I'm simply not trying. I'm seeing that that's not healthy for me. I like feeling 'normal', but I'm seeing that I need to continue to strive, regardless of where I am, to stay healthy.....So, I'm taking my partner out to the very finest restaurant in San Francisco tomorrow night, for our first time. I'm working a 6 hour day tomorrow, which is up for me, since I haven't been able to be fully at work the last 20 months, because I was so absorbed in the POIS problem. I can really be there for those three people. I can breathe in deeply, do a bit of yoga, write my partner her daily card...and intermittently pray.I think I might just be fine without genital sexuality, just for one day...Onward

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2757 on: 10/01/2009 12:18:23 »
I think the "joylessness" of others' reactions [to POIS] might be some version of fear. Health issues with a baffling tinge to them (like POIS and CFS) sometimes freak people out, in ways that they aren't even aware of.

Girlwind, do you think that could explain the poor reactions many of us have received from the medical community?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2758 on: 10/01/2009 12:28:41 »


Well, Martin is still waiting for air tickets from Counterpoints for the POIS Retreat. If they don't arrive soon, we'll have to use this space for The POIS Band - rehearsals and living quarters!
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 12:38:39 by demografx »

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Offline longwalkhome

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2759 on: 10/01/2009 15:30:49 »
The POIS retreat ... sounds lovely - I could use a bit of a break right about now :)

Anyway, I just wanted to give a quick Fenugreek update. I took around five capsules of Fenugreek every day for about a month. It apparently killed most of my headaches, and some other minor Pois issues at first, but after a while I felt like I'd fully relapsed into the vicious Pois cycle. I stopped taking the supplement after that and went on with my personal life as before. But after stopping my regular Fenugreek in-take, I suddenly felt much worse after orgasm. I don't know how to describe this, but I do know that I was able to think a lot more clearly under Fenugreek than before - maybe the symptoms really had decreased, but I was just a little more aware of how I was doing than I used to be under the usual emotional numbness of Pois?

Anyway, I started taking the capsules again some days ago, and I'll see how it goes. I'm sorry I don't contribute much to the discussion. I'm afraid I'm unable to "keep up" with the high level of pioneering and experimenting everybody on here provides on such a regular basis. I'm still reading this and checking for new posts every day, though. Let me know if there's anything I can do to contribute here (I know about the questionaire, of course!).
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 15:32:26 by longwalkhome »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2760 on: 10/01/2009 16:39:55 »
An interesting phenomenon, perhaps nothing: 1)I often get mini panic attacks in sleep that awaken me, but NEVER have I experienced a euphoria type of episode. This was very strange, but very welcome. This was two nights ago. I learned that, perhaps, our chemistry can be reversible. 2) Last night, during sleep, I should have definitely had an NE (all sensations clearly dictated it). In the past, it would have been 100 out of 100 certain. But I didn't. In both cases, it seeems to me (perhaps erroneously) that there may be other parts of my brain/nervous system functioning to offer "another way". I'm reticent to share this, but I think the give and take of this forum is a very effective tool for a therapeutic/psychiatric type of interactive catharsis that may be in itself a healing instrument.
 

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2761 on: 10/01/2009 17:17:04 »
An interesting phenomenon, perhaps nothing: 1)I often get mini panic attacks in sleep that awaken me, but NEVER have I experienced a euphoria type of episode. This was very strange, but very welcome. This was two nights ago. I learned that, perhaps, our chemistry can be reversible. 2) Last night, during sleep, I should have definitely had an NE (all sensations clearly dictated it). In the past, it would have been 100 out of 100 certain. But I didn't. In both cases, it seeems to me (perhaps erroneously) that there may be other parts of my brain/nervous system functioning to offer "another way". I'm reticent to share this, but I think the give and take of this forum is a very effective tool for a therapeutic/psychiatric type of interactive catharsis that may be in itself a healing instrument.

Underwater: I'm not getting the gist of what you're saying. Can you please explain what you mean by: "other parts of my
brain/nervous system functioning to offer "another way".
It sounds intriguing and I want to understand.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2762 on: 10/01/2009 19:23:41 »
Girlwind:
Brain/Nervous system functioning to offer "another way"--
With POIS and with my GAD there are triggers causing my nervous system to respond negatively. There are almost always "delays" between the triggering event and my symptoms, whether these be POIS onset or Anxiety onset. For many years, I have helplessly watched and felt the overwhelming biochemistry slowly assert its power. I've always wondered if there may be a volitional intervention, perhaps willpower or acceptance that could combat, reduce, or rid the symptoms.  BUT lately, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a subconscious component that may help. Not metaphysical, but "another" real, internal, healing action. Almost like your own psychotherapy, but one that is not controlled by our neocortex, but by an older part of our brain/nervous system. I do submit, however, that our neocortex may communicate with our older brain/nervous system, the one that controls these initial biochemical releases. If we could get in touch with this older brain, we may have some influence on our chemistry. We all know about the left/right duality of "intelligence". Perhaps there is an UP/DOWN connectivity that will allow us to affect our "ancient animal responses"?  This "another way" may be our cathartic, therapeutic, interactive, creative efforts to connect our "neurotic new brain" to our older, instinctive brain, the one that seems (to me) may control these chemical neurotransmsitters. It is the "successful act" of "getting in touch with ourselves" (I hate to use this cliche), and then letting the part of our brain/nervous system take its own corrective action. Do we have this "self correcting capacity" at the neurochemical level? Girlwind, I don't know where this capacity may reside, that's why I used the term "another way", a process rather than necessarily a location. I've struggled over the years with exercise, diet, breathing, art etc, but maybe I've been too focused on me as a body and incapable of relaxing enough to allow natural healing. This very act of responding to your question may be an example of a catharsis, a communicative act, perhaps a creative act that may assist in this process. Take Care----------------





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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2763 on: 10/01/2009 20:15:23 »
Thanks Demo for email update :)

Any time, B_Jim : - )
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 20:17:32 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2764 on: 10/01/2009 20:34:04 »
Again a major finding Demografx, however I'm not so happy to hear about this. I wouldn't have expected such a problem. Is it really the cause for pois, the treatment will say it if any.
Your pois started a long time ago, do you have this since the beginning... What is amazing is that your usual doctors didn't find this. It was a simple blood test. You had to ask yourself for a prolactin test! I can't believe this. Good luck for the next steps.

Martin, thank you, you're too kind!

Sorry that I've taken  longer than usual to reply to you, I have been visiting family recently, without using my laptop, and my cellphone internet doesn't allow for forum posting here.

Until further testing, and then seeing what happens in my next POIS-cycle, it's difficult to say whether the prolactinemia (high prolactin) is from POIS or not.

But POIS is the reason I am seeing this doctor, and POIS is what he is looking for.

You ask a very good question, why hasn't prolactinemia been discovered before. I suspect it is because GP's (general practioner MD's) don't normally test hormones in depth. THAT is why I went to an endocrinologist! And it is only because of this forum that I would have thought to see an endocrinologist. Thank you for asking!
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 21:11:13 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2765 on: 10/01/2009 21:15:17 »
I'm sorry I don't contribute much to the discussion. I'm afraid I'm unable to "keep up" with the high level of pioneering and experimenting everybody on here provides on such a regular basis. I'm still reading this and checking for new posts every day, though. Let me know if there's anything I can do to contribute here (I know about the questionaire, of course!).

Longwalkhome, you are certainly contributing!! And your current fenugreek experimentation and reporting is MOST helpful!!

I look forward to your next post. And I'm sure others are looking for your next post, too!

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2766 on: 10/01/2009 21:38:21 »
Girlwind--
You mention "resistance" in reference to sometimes not being able to go to the core of the feeling. This is how I often feel. I used the word relax, in that I often just can't get there or hold it if I do. When I can remove this resistance or obtain this relaxation, I  feel  an envelope of warmth and serenity coming over me. This is rare, but I get it enough to know that it is quite desireable. I'll get this at times in the water, at times after a satisfying meal, at times with a pleasant surprise, at times for no reason. What's interesting for me is that I can feel this coming on and taking hold as a positive and desireable physiological experience, just the opposite of the negative and debilitating response to POIS and GAD. That is why I know that POIS is significantly reduced if it occurs during this serene envelope, but worsened if during a GAD episode. I hope that if I can remove most resistance to obtain my maximum relaxation, GAD will disappear. This has happened before and my assumption is that it will happen again (I believe it is in its end period now). I hope. As far as POIS is concerned, I want to take my "relaxation/removal of resistance" to new, deeper levels. Perhaps this will significantly reduce POIS. And of course I will continue to experiment with supplements and herbal medicines etc. These efforts are always made to improve my overall health and my psychological responses to stress.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2767 on: 10/01/2009 21:57:48 »
An interesting phenomenon, perhaps nothing: 1)I often get mini panic attacks in sleep that awaken me, but NEVER have I experienced a euphoria type of episode. This was very strange, but very welcome. This was two nights ago. I learned that, perhaps, our chemistry can be reversible. 2) Last night, during sleep, I should have definitely had an NE (all sensations clearly dictated it). In the past, it would have been 100 out of 100 certain. But I didn't. In both cases, it seeems to me (perhaps erroneously) that there may be other parts of my brain/nervous system functioning to offer "another way". I'm reticent to share this, but I think the give and take of this forum is a very effective tool for a therapeutic/psychiatric type of interactive catharsis that may be in itself a healing instrument.

Underwater, I don't know if this is related, but long ago I stumbled on what some sleep researchers/writers have referred to as "brain orgasm". It has exactly ALL the properties of an NE, but WITHOUT the ultimately POIS-debilitating PHYSICAL RELEASE of an NE!

The mind "thinks" that it is having an orgasm, but it is not actually doing that; it is a VIVID experience in the dream/imaginary state. I don't believe it's possible to occur during the waking state. And it's difficult to fully describe.

I was never able to "create" a nocturnal brain-only orgasm, but the more I read about it...it just happened.

To my way of thinking, "brain orgasm" is a temporary - perhaps even permanent for some people - POIS cure: it allows the body/mind to periodically express itself sexually -  - which I believe it really needs to do - - but without the horrendous/horrific consequences of POIS!
« Last Edit: 10/01/2009 23:00:33 by demografx »

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2768 on: 10/01/2009 22:13:01 »
It seems that FenuGreek and Maca which I take 3x/day along with Garden of life Restore(FYI Ultra also works ) has the greatest effect on the CFS/Fibromyalgia symptoms. 
Yohimbe and Horney goat weed seem to be more of a secondary help in the formula.  Works good taken with fruit juice(berries Pomegranite etc)   
I also take about 50mg. od DHEA.  When I took it alone there wasn't a great effect. 

I haven't had an orgasm in 2 months. The physical desire goes down as long as there isn't too much stress to deal with.  Kind of keeping my mind on other things as much as possible.  Having good results and progress keeps positive mental energy.   
I took Maca a long time ago and there was no improvement.(maybe a bad brand..). You're able to stay 2 months without orgasm while taking horny goat, it's not what is written about this plant ! As I said before I'll try fenugreek.

I take a 7:1 concentrate(Paradise Herbs) which is equal to 1750 MG of whole root 3xday.  Iyt seems to have a synergy with others especially Fenugreek.
Horney Goat doesn't have that effect on me(surprising) although I haven't had a NE in a couple years.  I used to have a lot but stopped taking pian relievers(aspirin Ibupofen)  later in day seemed to help.  Getting older(50) might have a lot to do wih it.  Of course cancelling Cinemax also helped.
For me the 1st two weeks are the toughest then the strength of the urge  lessens.   

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2769 on: 10/01/2009 23:13:04 »
Demo--
Thanks for the information--
It was strange "not" to have an NE--
Perhaps it will (not)happen again, who knows--
A panic episode usually precedes my POIS episode--In this case, obviously, no POIS but no panic!!! That's why I'm feeling pretty good right now; but disappointments always await. However, I am going to try to remain optimistic. I will continue to do any little thing that might help, but most of all optimism. For most of the last 20 years I've had an anxious attitude about POIS, like it's always there; when is it coming next?. Now, I'm going to try to be positive and try to relax all the time, and if it happens, it will happen without the backdrop of dread. [While of course, I continue to experiment with herbs, supplements etc.]

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2770 on: 10/01/2009 23:21:23 »
Girlwind--
You mention "resistance" in reference to sometimes not being able to go to the core of the feeling. This is how I often feel. I used the word relax, in that I often just can't get there or hold it if I do. When I can remove this resistance or obtain this relaxation, I  feel  an envelope of warmth and serenity coming over me. This is rare, but I get it enough to know that it is quite desireable.
As far as POIS is concerned, I want to take my "relaxation/removal of resistance" to new, deeper levels. Perhaps this will significantly reduce POIS.

Underwater--I think we're describing something similar, although my experience is more than relaxation. It is like a
shift in perception of my reality, with a relaxation accompanying it. The key for me has been investigation of my mind
to see what it's telling me (behind my back!), and then asking myself if it is REALLY TRUE. So many times, to my utter
amazement, my mind is yapping away about crap that holds so little truth, that it makes me laugh out loud. And with
that moment of realization (which can be VERY TRICKY to get to) comes the aaahhhhh--the relaxation response. In a
way, it makes me feel like my mind is a figment of my imagination--which it actually is!

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2771 on: 11/01/2009 00:00:16 »
Girlwind--
Beautifully articulated--
You capture my state of being also--

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2772 on: 11/01/2009 01:28:18 »
I take a 7:1 concentrate(Paradise Herbs) which is equal to 1750 MG of whole root 3xday.  Iyt seems to have a synergy with others especially Fenugreek.
Horney Goat doesn't have that effect on me(surprising) although I haven't had a NE in a couple years.  I used to have a lot but stopped taking pian relievers(aspirin Ibupofen)  later in day seemed to help.  Getting older(50) might have a lot to do wih it.  Of course cancelling Cinemax also helped.
For me the 1st two weeks are the toughest then the strength of the urge  lessens.   

Finally, I appreciate your reporting your regimen and your experiences!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2773 on: 11/01/2009 01:36:12 »
TENSION RELIEVER

It's been 6 weeks. Enough! Maybe that's the right length of cycle interval for me. I do feel better, more energized "in spite of". Hope it lasts.

Next endo visit/more labwork is in 3 days.

As always, this place is hopping with ideas!

Thanks, everyone!
« Last Edit: 11/01/2009 05:57:53 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2774 on: 11/01/2009 01:39:49 »
Demo--
Thanks for the information--
It was strange "not" to have an NE--
Perhaps it will (not)happen again, who knows--
A panic episode usually precedes my POIS episode--In this case, obviously, no POIS but no panic!!! That's why I'm feeling pretty good right now; but disappointments always await. However, I am going to try to remain optimistic. I will continue to do any little thing that might help, but most of all optimism. For most of the last 20 years I've had an anxious attitude about POIS, like it's always there; when is it coming next?. Now, I'm going to try to be positive and try to relax all the time, and if it happens, it will happen without the backdrop of dread. [While of course, I continue to experiment with herbs, supplements etc.]

Underwater...what a winning philosophy you have! I'm copying you [:)]

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2775 on: 11/01/2009 04:34:27 »
Martin, thank you, you're too kind!
Sorry that I've taken  longer than usual to reply to you, I have been visiting family recently, without using my laptop, and my cellphone internet doesn't allow for forum posting here.
Until further testing, and then seeing what happens in my next POIS-cycle, it's difficult to say whether the prolactinemia (high prolactin) is from POIS or not.
But POIS is the reason I am seeing this doctor, and POIS is what he is looking for.You ask a very good question, why hasn't prolactinemia been discovered before. I suspect it is because GP's (general practioner MD's) don't normally test hormones in depth. THAT is why I went to an endocrinologist! And it is only because of this forum that I would have thought to see an endocrinologist. Thank you for asking!
I thought you were just depressive with your results, but in fact you just enjoyed about them ! This is good news !

This is not the first time this is happening like that. I know someone (old) who went several times to a MD for a pain in the stomach after an effort and nothing was done. One year later he had to ask himself for a cardiac test. MDs found he had had an attack, and kept him for cardiac surgery.
So it’s good to have an other advice sometimes.
As you said this forum can find something, we have the proof. This is very encouraging for all of us.
« Last Edit: 11/01/2009 06:45:06 by martin88 »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2776 on: 11/01/2009 04:48:18 »
I take a 7:1 concentrate(Paradise Herbs) which is equal to 1750 MG of whole root 3xday.  Iyt seems to have a synergy with others especially Fenugreek.
Horney Goat doesn't have that effect on me(surprising) although I haven't had a NE in a couple years.  I used to have a lot but stopped taking pian relievers(aspirin Ibupofen)  later in day seemed to help.  Getting older(50) might have a lot to do wih it.  Of course cancelling Cinemax also helped.
For me the 1st two weeks are the toughest then the strength of the urge  lessens.   
Thank you very much Finally for these precisions. For sure the age does not help with libido. I’m losing a litle bit every year. Also I noticed some differents reactions when I'm taking the same supplements I took when I was younger: Sometimes better efficiency and other times weaker effect than before. It would be very interesting to understand why aspirin gives you more NEs.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2777 on: 11/01/2009 05:13:12 »
It seems there is an interesting link between Iron metabolism and immunity, Pois and dopamine. I'm not sure, it is just a start of theory...

- Orgasm seems to cause autoimmune disorder for us (especially if flulike symptoms).
- Then it causes inflammation and increases IL-6.
 (Demo's physician friend thinks IL6 are linked to Pois)
- IL-6 increases hepcidin Here and here
- Hepcidin decreases iron levels (its job)
- Low Iron level decreases catecholamines metabolism (Iron is cofactor of tyrosine hydroxylase (th). Th regulates the metabolism of L-Tyrosine to Dopamine). B3 is a cofactor too.

I'm convinced we can reduce IL-6 with good diet. I think to iron because Guthrie's link gives me this idea of "post-orgasm anemia" and because i said you I wait infos from another case. He has possible deletion of flulike symptoms with iron supplement. Everybody must check his iron level. But it's not enough because there are a lot of biological factors linked to iron. We talked with SteveD and he said he had Pois even when his iron level was good. But i remember even a low-limit level of iron can have effect on Dopamine (restless legs syndrome for example). Another problem is the role of iron on immunity. It seems to be a very complex problem because iron can be anti-inflammatory or pro-inflammatory, depending its form or its association with other molecules. Excessive iron can increase problems and be dangerous for body : No self-medication with iron! only doctors choose to try supplement or not . When Iron is "free" it might be used in pro-inflammation reaction too. Maybe the solution is to improve the absorption of iron instead of iron supplement. Lactoferrin can do the job .
And why not heal the autimmune disorder itself  ?  
Beside anti-inflammatory properties, LF was found to inhibit some autoimmune disorders.
It seems safe but i prefer to have opinion of the doctor.





On B jims hypothesis, i my experience with protein can back it up.
When i eat lots of protein and use multivitamin and increase uptake of vitamin C out pois, I experience this kind out mental High.
However, when i reapeat the same actions during pois i never achieve t the same result, it was always the same pois symptoms.
I believe Pois is definitely chowing down our neurotransmitters.

I would like join the band but I have no sort of musical talent. But i wont mind being the one throwing my panties on the stage.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2778 on: 11/01/2009 05:38:37 »
TENSION RELIEVER

It's been 6 weeks. Enough! Maybe that's the right length of cycle interval for me. Do feel better, more energized "in spite of". Hope it lasts.

Next endo visit/more labwork is in 3 days.

As always, this place is hopping with ideas!

Thanks, everyone!

UPDATE: 4 HOURS LATER...TIRED

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2779 on: 11/01/2009 05:52:35 »



I would like join the band but I have no sort of musical talent. But i wont mind being the one throwing my panties on the stage.



OK CCconfucius, take the 2nd bungalow on the left!

« Last Edit: 11/01/2009 05:54:13 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2780 on: 11/01/2009 06:12:15 »
As you said this forum can find something, we have the proof. This is very encouraging for all of us.

Thank you, Martin!

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2781 on: 11/01/2009 10:00:09 »
TENSION RELIEVER

It's been 6 weeks. Enough! Maybe that's the right length of cycle interval for me. Do feel better, more energized "in spite of". Hope it lasts.

Next endo visit/more labwork is in 3 days.

As always, this place is hopping with ideas!

Thanks, everyone!

UPDATE: 4 HOURS LATER...TIRED

You okay?

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2782 on: 11/01/2009 10:12:59 »
Though the use of Gandhi’s prayer “In brahmacharya lies the protection of the body, the mind and the soul” and an old piece of poetry that begins “The Lord is my shepherd…” I was able to stay focused on serving musically today. One guy learned melody construction in contemporary composition, one I taught Django Reinhart and a third Voodoo Chile (Slight Return).

I took my partner to dinner at a 5 star restaurant and the total focus on sensuality, while absolutely blissful, started me dissipating. When I start with food, I quickly move to sex, and that engages one of the five stages, for me, of POIS.

Got me to thinkin'... I just may become more conservative. Hmmmm...
 


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2783 on: 11/01/2009 14:43:12 »
Though the use of Gandhi’s prayer “In brahmacharya lies the protection of the body, the mind and the soul” and an old piece of poetry that begins “The Lord is my shepherd…” I was able to stay focused on serving musically today. One guy learned melody construction in contemporary composition, one I taught Django Reinhart and a third Voodoo Chile (Slight Return).

I took my partner to dinner at a 5 star restaurant and the total focus on sensuality, while absolutely blissful, started me dissipating. When I start with food, I quickly move to sex, and that engages one of the five stages, for me, of POIS.

Got me to thinkin'... I just may become more conservative. Hmmmm...

Amazing. Brahmacharya. I tried to fully embrace this and other similarities that you espouse. Just couldn't do it. Hundreds of reasons.

And, DESPITE the agony of going the other way, it's who I am, perhaps powerfully encoded genetically over centuries.

So I will continue to pursue the world of hormonal balance, neurotransmitter fun and games (Hormonopoly®, anyone?) and brain transplants [;D]

You okay?

Yes. But still tired. And if history repeats, I have several more days of this to look forward to. Thanks for asking.

Got me to thinkin'... I just may become more conservative. Hmmmm...

Don't do it. See Frost/Nixon.
« Last Edit: 11/01/2009 14:54:37 by demografx »

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2784 on: 11/01/2009 17:29:51 »
hi guys, i'm a 23 year old healthy female, however, a day or two after an orgasm i get a couple of painful, inflamed pimples on my shoulders/back. my hormone levels are fine.  i've tested this numerous times over  the past few years and i'm convinced that's what my body acne is related to. does anyone have a similar problem??

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2785 on: 11/01/2009 19:03:47 »
hi guys, i'm a 23 year old healthy female, however, a day or two after an orgasm i get a couple of painful, inflamed pimples on my shoulders/back. my hormone levels are fine.  i've tested this numerous times over  the past few years and i'm convinced that's what my body acne is related to. does anyone have a similar problem??

Jasmine, welcome to The POIS thread of Naked Science Forum! These 3 posts are for you (this one and the following two).

The link directly below shows previous posts which contain acne as part of the discussion. I hope that helps. The "MessageID" number is the search result forum Post to look for. The numbers do change, but it should be close by to the one you're looking for. The MessageID of your very first post above, for example, is found underneath your name that appears to the left of your post and is MessageID 216495.

Best wishes! And looking forward to more posts from you.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=acne+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
« Last Edit: 11/01/2009 19:37:47 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2786 on: 11/01/2009 19:12:38 »
Jasmine, here are some more forum resources for you:


"Girlwind" - yes, that is another female name here - has created an excellent POIS Video. A first!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g


"B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. MessageID: 149009
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009


And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2787 on: 11/01/2009 19:19:36 »
my hormone levels are fine.

Solutions for POIS may need to go way beyond the standard hormone tests.

"Girlwind" in particular is extremely knowledgeable in this area. She just recently completed $2,000 worth of hormone tests! That doesn't mean that you need anything close to Girlwind's (she's also looking for other maladies besides POIS), but you may want to take a look at some of our previous hormone test discussions:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hormone+test+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com
« Last Edit: 11/01/2009 19:43:10 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2788 on: 11/01/2009 21:49:40 »
hi guys, i'm a 23 year old healthy female, however, a day or two after an orgasm i get a couple of painful, inflamed pimples on my shoulders/back. my hormone levels are fine.  i've tested this numerous times over  the past few years and i'm convinced that's what my body acne is related to. does anyone have a similar problem??

Hi Jasmine,
Sometimes stress can cause acne outbreaks.  Perhaps you associate orgasm with stress, and this precipitates your condition?
This is interesting, but I'm almost positive you don't have "conventional POIS"; of course, the term "POIS" is becoming increasingly vague.

The 200 or so, who have posted, can be separated into about three distinct groups. The first group contains
very approximately 120 of the posters.  These people share about 10 notable mental symptoms (word finding difficulty, brain fog, ...), but have no severe physical symptoms.  The next group contains about 60 posters -- these people have the same mental symptoms as those in the first group, with additional physical symptoms.  The third group contains people who not only have different symptoms from those in the first two groups, but who have different symptoms from one another! Nonetheless, the symptoms are often some combination of physical/mental, and are usually quite severe.  Mostly, this group shares the fact that they feel some kind of symptom "post-orgasm".

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2789 on: 11/01/2009 23:40:25 »
The 200 or so, who have posted, can be separated into about three distinct groups. The first group contains
very approximately 120 of the posters.  These people share about 10 notable mental symptoms (word finding difficulty, brain fog, ...), but have no severe physical symptoms.  The next group contains about 60 posters -- these people have the same mental symptoms as those in the first group, with additional physical symptoms.  The third group contains people who not only have different symptoms from those in the first two groups, but who have different symptoms from one another! Nonetheless, the symptoms are often some combination of physical/mental, and are usually quite severe.  Mostly, this group shares the fact that they feel some kind of symptom "post-orgasm".
Counterpoints,

That's remarkable profiling information. Can you tell me what the 10 mental symptoms from the (60%)  first group are?
Is there a grouping, pattern or cluster to the physical symptoms experienced by the (30%) of the second group?
How long have you been collecting profiling?




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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2790 on: 11/01/2009 23:59:13 »
The 200 or so, who have posted, can be separated into about three distinct groups. The first group contains very approximately 120 of the posters.  These people share about 10 notable mental symptoms (word finding difficulty, brain fog, ...), but have no severe physical symptoms.  The next group contains about 60 posters -- these people have the same mental symptoms as those in the first group, with additional physical symptoms.  The third group contains people who not only have different symptoms from those in the first two groups, but who have different symptoms from one another! Nonetheless, the symptoms are often some combination of physical/mental, and are usually quite severe.  Mostly, this group shares the fact that they feel some kind of symptom "post-orgasm".

Counterpoints, extreme exhaustion and physical fatigue is my understanding of the chief POIS symptom, yet I hardly ever see you mention it! We've had this discussion before privately and publicly, yet we keep coming back to it.

I know it's not your key symptom (it is mine), but starting with the POIS founder, Dr. Marcel Waldinger and his 5-year observation of patients, plus the people who have posted here, exhaustion and fatigue, both physical and mental are the main complaints I see repeatedly.

Maybe there is a difference between people who post consistently vs. the one-timers? Am I missing something?

Admittedly, I have not quantitatively analyzed B_Jim's data,
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009 but when something strikes me as so obvious and so repetitive - and I've been here since the beginning of The POIS Forum...it's difficult to understand how we could differ so greatly.

B_Jim, I'd greatly appreciate also hearing your understanding of the chief symptoms of POIS. Thank you!
« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 00:17:31 by demografx »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2791 on: 12/01/2009 00:14:39 »

"Girlwind" in particular is extremely knowledgeable in this area. She just recently completed $2,000 worth of hormone tests!

Girlwind,

I'm getting testing done for my anemia and while I'm there I'll request some hormonal testing. Can you tell me briefly what you tested for?

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2792 on: 12/01/2009 00:15:44 »
Counterpoints, extreme exhaustion and physical fatigue is my understanding of the chief POIS symptom.

Physical fatigue simply isn't the most common symptom.  There are posters with mental symptoms, without physical symptoms.  And there are posters with both.  And there are posters with physical symptoms, but no mental symptoms; however, these cases are extremely rare (<1%?).

So it follows, naturally, that physical fatigue is not a primary symptom, though it does affect a considerable number of sufferers.

As you know, Dr. Waldinger only discussed 2 patients.  And some of their symptoms were rather irregular in this circle.  He also emphasized that each of them had premature ejaculation, which is not something I have heard talked about here.

Maybe there is a difference between people who post consistently vs. the one-timers? Am I missing something?

I don't see why I would mention physical fatigue in the context of the above quoted post.  One point, I am trying to draw attention to, is that many of us can be placed into different groups, and it is likely each group has distinct causes for the symptoms associated with that group.  For instance, your high prolactin levels may have something to do with your symptoms.  However, both of Dr. Waldinger's patients had normal prolactin levels (I do too, as do some of the others who have been tested here).



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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2793 on: 12/01/2009 00:22:57 »
Counterpoints, extreme exhaustion and physical fatigue is my understanding of the chief POIS symptom.

Physical fatigue simply isn't the most common symptom.  There are posters with mental symptoms, without physical symptoms.  And there are posters with both.  And there are posters with physical symptoms, but no mental symptoms; however, these cases are extremely rare (<1%?).

So it follows, naturally, that physical fatigue is not a primary symptom, though it does affect a considerable number of sufferers.

As you know, Dr. Waldinger only discussed 2 patients.  And some of their symptoms were rather irregular in this circle.  He also emphasized that each of them had premature ejaculation, which is not something I have heard talked about here.

Maybe there is a difference between people who post consistently vs. the one-timers? Am I missing something?

I don't see why I would mention physical fatigue in the context of the above quoted post.  One point, I am trying to draw attention to, is that many of us can be placed into different groups, and it is likely each group has distinct causes for the symptoms associated with that group.  For instance, your high prolactin levels may have something to do with your symptoms.  However, both of Dr. Waldinger's patients had normal prolactin levels (I do too, as do some of the others who have been tested here).

As I mentioned in my post excerpted directly below, mental and physical fatigue/exhaustion is what I believe.

starting with the POIS founder, Dr. Marcel Waldinger and his 5-year observation of patients, plus the people who have posted here, exhaustion and fatigue, both physical and mental are the main complaints I see repeatedly.

As  I also mentioned in my post excerpted directly above, I referred to Dr. Waldinger's 5-year history of observations, not the 2 patients he wrote up.

Are we still at odds?
« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 00:27:55 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2794 on: 12/01/2009 00:25:18 »
I just went through survey responses.  Several people mention 'fatigue', while listing mostly mental symptoms.  So it's somewhat ambiguous whether they are referring to physical or mental fatigue.  But about 48-55% of responders list physical fatigue or exhaustion as a post orgasm symptom.

edit:  I've never seen the "5 year history".  Where is this?
« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 00:28:45 by Counterpoints »

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2795 on: 12/01/2009 00:30:13 »
Counterpoints, your survey is a small fraction of the total 200 visitors, plus Waldinger!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2796 on: 12/01/2009 00:32:06 »
edit:  I've never seen the "5 year history".  Where is this?

It's in Dr. Waldinger's paper that you read and posssibly missed.

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2797 on: 12/01/2009 00:35:05 »
CP, I just tried to look at the survey, and the data's not there; I understand there are problems - have they been resolved?

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2798 on: 12/01/2009 00:40:22 »
about 48-55% of responders list physical fatigue or exhaustion as a post orgasm symptom.

Albeit skewed to the approx. 19 forum survey participants, isn't that modal-statistic reason enough to list it as a chief sysmptom? I'm sure nothing else comes in as even a close 2nd to the 48-55%!! And please don't count just "mental" as a chief characteristic [;D]

I love this: a 30+ year market-data researcher and a physicist duking it out [:)]

Counterpoints, please take into account that I've been at this obsessively for years. I know you've also put in a great deal of time, too.

Please don't take any of this as unappreciative of your work. But I will bet my bottom dollar on physical/mental, even emotional exhaustion/fatigue.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2009 00:50:40 by demografx »

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2799 on: 12/01/2009 00:41:30 »
Counterpoints, speaking of exhaustion, POIS has got me right now...fatigued!!!! [:(]