Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2950 on: 19/01/2009 01:53:49 »
So Steve,
By not doing it in 18 1/2 years- are you cured? Or for you does it apply even to intercourse?

Pro,

Not masturbating 'cures' Pois from masturbating, but, that is about all... I experience Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome  with relationship/coupleship sexuality as well. I further find that, for me, I experience the symptoms of POIS in graduated degrees (see below)

Total % loss...For me
1) openness to dating    2% loss
2) dating                     5% loss
3) arousal behavior      10% loss
4) genital contact         20%loss
5) orgasmic sexuality   95% loss

Two things are worth mentioning, here. First, is this is simply my experience and in no way do I speak for the rest of the people on this forum. Different people have very different experiences, treatments and beliefs. What is common to us all is illness that we all experience upon orgasm.

Secondly, personally, I am working very, very hard on solving the problems that arise from being a POIS sufferer and being in relationship...and I'm making all kinds of mistakes, but learning very quickly.

and finally, I find the fellowship provided by this forum to be very valuable.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2951 on: 19/01/2009 08:01:44 »
I had a remarkable experience last night. During the last nine months of being sexually, but not orgasmically sexual, there have been, on rare occasions, some seminal loss. Last night was one of those nights. Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome strikes me about 85% of the time when I am orgasmic. Last night was one of those 15% “free pass “ nights. That was not remarkable. What was remarkable was that the vulnerability that I felt due to seminal loss, accompanied by the utter safety I felt with my partner caused a deeply profound bonding in me towards her. Suddenly the biologic of people (generally recognized in men) feeling vulnerable after orgasm and then bonding with a safe mate, due to the vulnerability of being post orgasmic made sense.
I think, in me, as POIS sufferer that neurochemical reaction of orgasm is overly pronounced creating pathology, instead of creating an opportunity to bond more closely with an emotionally appropriate mate.

 


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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2952 on: 19/01/2009 15:22:54 »
Steve--
Good News, Interesting News--
The sense of what you are saying goes beyond the articulated words--
Could "free pass" be a bit more complex than we suspect? Maybe yes, Maybe no--

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2953 on: 19/01/2009 15:26:47 »
Steve--
Very interesting news--It's positive news--
I have been very curious about the "escape" experiences people have talked about--
Because if you can escape once ,twice, thrice............?

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2954 on: 19/01/2009 16:22:58 »
Hello to the newcomers--In my case, I have found considerable alleviation of POIS symptoms
by taking adrenal boosting supplements and herbs: Vitamin C with pantothenic acid, schizandra,
siberian ginseng, DHEA, and maca. In addition, managing my thyroid by avoiding goitrogenic
foods (cabbage and peanuts and soy being the worst), getting enough iodine in my diet--with
sea salt and seaweed being included in my diet, and taking the Indian herb--Ashwaghanda to
assist the thyroid, have helped me even more. I had a nocturnal orgasm a few nights ago, and
had practically NO symptoms! In fact my energy has been really good since. Hurray! This gives
me great hope!

I should also add that having regular eating and sleeping habits has been critical for me in aiding
the "cortisol" boost that I so badly needed. I could lose all my progress if I was not disciplined
with that.  And yes, this forum has been a huge support and help as well. Lots of great insights
from all ends of the spectrum.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2955 on: 19/01/2009 17:14:16 »
Girlwind--
Glad to hear positive news--Steps in the right direction--
Deep in my gut I suspect a broad holistic approach may be
the most valuable to me. I don't see how we can ever separate the physiological and psychological. Descartes is long gone. It may be too extreme to say "mind over matter", but how about "mind with matter"? This is what I sense from the many posts here with many perspectives. I have gone back and forth like a ping ping match for 20 years, gravitating toward pure chemistry at times and then being thrown back into a psychological/behavioral black hole. I can entertain negative thoughts, and then, abracadabra, I don't feel so great. I didn't mention in an earlier post re: supplements that I have also added selenium and iodine to my morning supplement intake. But my biggest "plus" that I have felt the last month has probably been connected to a big boost in vitamin B. It was way too low. My GAD is almost gone, but is lingering stubbornly. Thank you for your updates----------------------------

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2956 on: 19/01/2009 18:46:36 »
Is anyone else having screen problems today? On this forum, the display is "too large"

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2957 on: 19/01/2009 18:52:48 »
TESTOSTERONE

Today is Day 4 of wearing 2 Testosterone patches prescribed by my endocrinologist for POIS.

From Day 1, I felt better (patches work right away). Since my testosterone is low, feeling better makes sense.

Whether this will lower my sky-high prolactin and then "cure" my POIS, another month or so and I will know.

I'm very optimistic with this new doctor. He takes POIS VERY seriously and is committed to helping me find the way to POIS-freedom!

For more background info on this post:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg217326#msg217326

NOTE: Testosterone therapy is not a forum recommendation! Consult your health care advisor to see if it's right for you.
« Last Edit: 19/01/2009 20:24:49 by demografx »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2958 on: 19/01/2009 19:21:30 »
Demo--
Glad you're feeling improvement with testosterone patches. I hope that they prove to be effective/beneficial when the "time" comes. This is an important experiment. I've always wondered (like everybody else probably) whether testosterone was a critical hormone in POIS. After all, it is produced front and center so to speak. My last test at M.D. came back okay. Regarding posting problems this morning, YES, I had a problem. That why I had two very similar postings showing up at same time. Screen indicated that my message wasn't accepted, but it actually was. It was a bit confusing. OH Well! Back to Testosterone: "Theoretically", is addressing a deficiency possibly enough in itself, or might it also balance out prolactin somehow ?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2959 on: 19/01/2009 19:52:00 »
Demo--
Glad you're feeling improvement with testosterone patches. I hope that they prove to be effective/beneficial when the "time" comes. This is an important experiment. I've always wondered (like everybody else probably) whether testosterone was a critical hormone in POIS. After all, it is produced front and center so to speak. My last test at M.D. came back okay. Regarding posting problems this morning, YES, I had a problem. That why I had two very similar postings showing up at same time. Screen indicated that my message wasn't accepted, but it actually was. It was a bit confusing. OH Well! Back to Testosterone: "Theoretically", is addressing a deficiency possibly enough in itself, or might it also balance out prolactin somehow ?

Thanks, Underwater! It's really nice to get positive feedback here from "people who REALLY know!"

If there is anything to the theory (for men) that semen-loss is correlated to POIS, then testosterone makes sense because I think that it speeds up semen production. And the T-patches mimic the body's steady flow of T-production vs. the erratic peaks and valleys that the injectables produce, which is what I tried before.

Very astute question, Underwater, "might [testosterone] also balance out prolactin somehow?" That's exactly what the endocrinologist's theory is!
« Last Edit: 19/01/2009 20:26:45 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2960 on: 19/01/2009 20:19:08 »

My last [testosterone] test at M.D. came back okay.


Underwater, so did mine! But when I tested more in-depth, as suggested by Girlwind, testosterone came out LOW! Apparently, many (most?) general-MD's are not all that up to date on hormonal testing.

"Free testosterone" needs to be part of your testing. One reason why I went to an endocrinologist. I think Girlwind recommends seeing a naturopath and/or testing directly with labs such as ZRT Labs.

These former posts should help:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=free+testosterone+ZRT+labs+girlwind+site%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2961 on: 19/01/2009 20:55:01 »
Thanks Demo for the added info------

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2962 on: 19/01/2009 21:06:42 »
Underwater,

I just looked at my lab report, and it shows in the testosterone area:

- Testosterone, Bioavailable

- Testosterone, Total

- (SHGB) Sex Hormone Globulin Binding

- Testosterone, Free


« Last Edit: 19/01/2009 21:10:14 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2963 on: 19/01/2009 21:13:02 »
I was informed that **The Naked Scientists are performing some advertising tests, explaining the tech problems we're experiencing.





**I hope they're not freezing!

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2964 on: 19/01/2009 22:47:32 »
I have found that exercise is a temporary improvement for POIS. I've been long distance runner/swimmer for 32 yrs. Exercise = Endorphins.  For me, staying away from alcohol and caffeine has helped with both conditions.  Supplements: I've taken supplements for over 30 years. Vitamin C is my constant forever. I take a B complex, D, fish oil, garlic, magnesium and potassium, also some calcium.
For me, this forum is therapeutic and cathartic. I actually feel better as a result of constructive, positive dialogue. Since I feel better as a result, it strengthens my immune and nervous systems. It reinforces healing. It seeps into the subconscious. It actually becomes a tool. 
But I absolutely know  that there is a "rock solid case" for a concommitant psychological and behavioural genesis, if not actual cause.  Thus, I try to work on all aspects of POIS to diminish it: exercise, sleep, nutrition, my mind, my back, supplements, psychiatrist, chiropractor , you know all the stuff we talk about all the time. For me, I prefer natural methods.
Girlwind--
Deep in my gut I suspect a broad holistic approach may be
the most valuable to me.

Underwater,

These all make sense to me. I don't drink alcohol or use caffiene (or drugs or cigarettes). I work out very hard daily. Around supplements: I drink a 12 herbal tea prepared specifically by my acupuncturist for POIS. I drink 6 to 24 ounces of homegrown, fresh wheatgrass per day (far and away the most effective supplement , for me). I also take cod liver oil, iron, vitamin D and B-12 supplements.
I think the holistic approach is the most sensible way, for me, too. So, I also add prayer, meditation and service. Service, I've got to say, after abstinence, is the most effective tool against POIS I have experienced. Finally, and most recently, is the healing power of this forum. There is something about the love, in the form of acceptance, that is just magical, for me. Thanks guys (and girl).


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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2965 on: 19/01/2009 23:00:51 »
Steve--
Very interesting news--It's positive news--
I have been very curious about the "escape" experiences people have talked about--
Because if you can escape once ,twice, thrice............?

Underwater,

Thanks. My partner is of the same vigilant hopefulness. I, initially sadly, but now with acceptance, peace and courage, do not see the anomalies as signs of hope, but rather as spurious, confusing and misleading examples of a disease manifesting as cunning, baffling and powerful.
I, for one, believe that  abstinence is the 'cure' for Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome, for me. So, I choose to accept that and spend my energy trying to make my life as good, healthy, creative and as happy as it can possibly be, but without orgasm...I've got a lot to learn, but I'm getting better.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2966 on: 20/01/2009 00:01:26 »
Steve--
I haven't gone into my behavioral decisions regarding POIS as much as you or others have, but the last 20 months I have been basically abstinent due to GAD plus POIS. There are NE's. These are not pleasant.
However, I do have fresh recollections of the years 2004-2006. They were a very good two years! Pois was "tolerable" and had a defined 2-3 day dissipation pattern. Then in early/middle 2007 things fell apart. Imprudent behavioral choices with their psychological consequences ignited GAD, and GAD intensified POIS which intensified GAD etc. Now 20 months later, I've rid all imprudent behaviour, reduced POIS "episodes" and am close to ending this GAD episode. Can I return to 2004/5 condition? I don't have a clue, but I'm optimistic. I see anomalies as windows of possibilities. This is because I've experienced BAD GAD for long perios of time and recovered! And a BAD GAD episode can last for me two months and be like POIS 24/7. Yet I get over them. POIS is like an evil trick sent by one of the goddesses/gods in the ancient greek pantheon to punish an unfaithful servent/lover. Or better yet, a punishment one could have seen in Dante's inferno. Many times I've felt like a rat in Skinner's experiments where when you press a lever for food you get electrocuted, yet return for punishment anyhow. Nevertheless, I do not think that POIS is like an etching carved into our brain incapable of being filled in or erased. I know that I have a long way to go to break those "mind forged manacles" that William Blake refers to in his poem, London, but will look to anomalies as least as distant lights for inspiration.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2967 on: 20/01/2009 03:47:01 »
Steve--
 ...but the last 20 months I have been basically abstinent
Pois was "tolerable" and had a defined 2-3 day dissipation pattern. Then in early/middle 2007 things fell apart. Imprudent behavioral choices with their psychological consequences ignited POIS. Now 20 months later, I've rid all imprudent behaviour, reduced POIS "episodes". Can I return to 2004/5 condition? I don't have a clue, but I'm optimistic.

Underwater,

It piques me that it's been 20 months of change, for you. 20 months ago I stopped being orgasmic and that was very good for me. 9 months ago I started dating again.

I experienced, as you so eloquently stated "behavioral choices with their psychological consequences". Though I avoided POIS, like the bubonic plague, I still incurred very significant losses , due to genital contact, in all the areas POIS affects, but just to a lesser degree.

I am trying to obtain the level of health I experienced being perfectly chaste the first 11 months of this 20 month period.

In all fairness to truth, I felt very lonely the first 11 months and I don't feel any of that now.




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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2968 on: 20/01/2009 05:17:26 »

I am in NC and none of the doctors I have seen to know or are willing to answer anything about it.


SickLifeSaver, endocrinologists in North Carolina:
http://www.ucomparehealthcare.com/drs/north_carolina/endocrinologists/

It's listed by City/town.

The original POIS medical study was co-authored by an endocrinologist. Perhaps you can email it to a few in NC near you and ask for their reaction so you'll pick one that is more motivated to learn about this.

Get a copy from me or Pyropeach; we would just need your email address to send it to.
« Last Edit: 20/01/2009 05:18:57 by demografx »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2969 on: 20/01/2009 05:22:21 »
Steve--
I understand your symptomatologic chart: 1-5 with % of loss.
For me it can be understood as behaviours that trigger an anxiety/panic episode. In my experience it would reflect an hyperexcitatory state.
Believe it or not, I have experienced what you define as number 3 (arousal and loss). Except it caused a reaction like number 4 or 5. It was terrible. These events happened in July 2007 at the beginning of this 20 month period I talked about. These were visual triggers only, but at the time my nervous system was so debilitated that I could do nothing. I was on "vacation", can you believe it? I thought I was going "mad", because I had very little control over my mind's response to the stimuli. So it fits into your number 3 category. I thought I was going crazy! Man, that was an awful period. I
really understand what you're going through. This is why I have posted a lot about my GAD and my POIS. I cannot disentangle them. One is orgasmic and post orgasmic (POIS) and the other sexual and pre-orgasmic. (I have used the term many times of anticipatory anxiety, almost a fear of arousal and orgasm). I still get those in sleep in fear of NE, but finally am controlling the extent of symptoms. In fact, when I was in a real bad period,
even if I didn't get to number 5, but almost, it triggered armageddon. The good news is that these have now all diminished. But I must do what is right for my body/mind just as you clearly state. Being in a long and solid marriage makes things much easier for me. Believe me, I understand your situation and the tragic consequences it has for you, for if you crave companionship and the joy of sexuality there is a dark, black cloud hanging over your every move. You know, sometimes I feel we're in a maze or house of mirrors never finding the exit, always running into reflections of ourselves. I submit to you there is an exit. I don't know quite where yet, but I'm optimistically looking.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2970 on: 20/01/2009 05:28:28 »

Pro, i really love your description of "unawakened" state, dissociation. I feel the same thing. You find the good expression. It's the more difficult symptom to explain to my doc.
I used the words :
- mental confusion
- stupor
- derealisation
- "i feel like sleeping" / dreamlike state
- loss of vigilance and loss of consciousness
   
At the moment, my best theory to try to explain this is the unbalanced ratio DHEA/cortisol. Saving cortisol release might be a key factor (avoiding all physical , psychological stressors as diet or light) and for flulike cases at least , inflammation.
 

B_Jim, can you explain the DHEA/cortisol relationship just a little more?

Did you get the idea from the partial successes of Relora and Fenugreek?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2971 on: 20/01/2009 05:42:04 »

None of the physicians I have approached are able to diagnose the problem.


fellow sufferer, please see my note above to SickLifeSaver, or click:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg218918#msg218918

Do a google search on "Endocrinologists in [your state]" and then follow the suggestions in my post to SickLifeSaver.


I have a delay post "O" of about 1 to 6 hours before this awful condition begins.


This is very common, fellow sufferer. Some people have the delay for a full 24 hours. This has happened to me often, but not always.
« Last Edit: 20/01/2009 05:45:25 by demografx »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2972 on: 20/01/2009 07:44:23 »
Steve--
I understand your symptomatologic chart: 1-5 with % of loss.
For me it can be understood as behaviours that trigger an anxiety/panic episode. In my experience it would reflect an hyperexcitatory state.
This is why I have posted a lot about my GAD and my POIS. I cannot disentangle them.

You know, sometimes I feel we're in a maze or house of mirrors never finding the exit, always running into reflections of ourselves. I submit to you there is an exit. I don't know quite where yet, but I'm optimistically looking.

Underwater,

I feel like I'm on my tippy-toes trying to understand your experiences of GAD . I can't. I imagine that this is what it must feel like when loving and wise people try to understand what I've been saying about Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. They simply have no experience of it and the can't understand, try as they may.

For me, the stages of POIS are physical states, which leads me to believe that dopamine levels rise or prolactin levels drop in the pre-orgasmic stages of POIS and then there is an 'allergic reaction'  to that neurochemical change depending on the level of exposure...very similar to the emotional/experiential envelope that addiction theory models describe.

Various approaches use black and white thinking (ie, abstinence) and others use moderation-eating disorders for example. Since it is true that I"... crave companionship and with the joy of sexuality there is a dark, black cloud hanging over my every move" , honestly, then, I am currently titrating to see where an acceptable level of loss is.

PS Hendrix used to say 'I used to live in a house full of mirrors, and I all I could see was me'. I know, due to the first 11 months of this 20 month period, that there is an absolutely perfect solution to this problem. A chaste life, alone. I know that works...but, it was lonely. Not the worst problem in the world, of course, but one I would like to solve.

 

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2973 on: 20/01/2009 07:49:31 »
Day two of three of 'no arousal behavior', as negotiated with my partner. Life is returning to me. I am grateful...

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2974 on: 20/01/2009 18:25:00 »
Day three of no arousal behaviors. I'm more available to other people, practicing a little, administrating my life more. I notice my meditation is up and I've lost 6 pounds. Nothing earthshaking. The Red Sea didn't part. I haven't been conversing with burning bushes...but I feel more solid internally.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2975 on: 20/01/2009 18:30:47 »

                    Total % loss...For me
1) openness to dating    2% loss
2) dating                     5% loss
3) arousal behavior      10% loss
4) genital contact         20%loss
5) orgasmic sexuality   95% loss

After a two day experiment at stage 2), for us, dating, my partner and I went back to stage 4), for us, non orgasmic genital contact.

I'm feeling fatigued, confused, flushed, tired, runny nose, arthritic in my knees and lower back.
I'm negotiating with my partner to do a three day experiment at stage 2, for us, after the long weekend and before a three day trip we have next week.


Steve, please stay on topic. This is a medical forum on postorgasmic difficulties. "1) 2% loss - openness to dating  2) 5% loss - dating and the like is not serious or scientific discussion of post orgasm.  

This is not a blogsite as you call it. Repeated posts to this effect will be grounds for dismissal. Thank you.                  

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2976 on: 20/01/2009 18:34:37 »

Day two of three of 'no arousal behavior', as negotiated with my partner. Life is returning to me. I am grateful...




Day three of no arousal behaviors. I'm more available to other people, practicing a little, administrating my life more. I notice my meditation is up and I've lost 6 pounds. Nothing earthshaking. The Red Sea didn't part. I haven't been conversing with burning bushes...but I feel more solid internally.


More "romantic" blogging. Please familiarize yourself with the 2,500+ posts for the last 2 years to get a firsthand understanding of the nature of this forum.

This is a 2nd warning.

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2977 on: 20/01/2009 18:51:42 »

Day two of three of 'no arousal behavior', as negotiated with my partner. Life is returning to me. I am grateful...




Day three of no arousal behaviors. I'm more available to other people, practicing a little, administrating my life more. I notice my meditation is up and I've lost 6 pounds. Nothing earthshaking. The Red Sea didn't part. I haven't been conversing with burning bushes...but I feel more solid internally.


More "romantic" blogging. Please familiarize yourself with the 2,500+ posts for the last 2 years to get a firsthand understanding of the nature of this forum.

This is a 2nd warning.

My apologies if my sharing of my experience of the the Illness of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome is inappropriate in this forum. As you are the moderater I will abide by your wishes.

Currently I am not experiencing any symptoms of POIS , simply, because I am not being orgasmic.
 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2978 on: 20/01/2009 20:57:42 »
Quote
B_Jim, can you explain the DHEA/cortisol relationship just a little more?
Did you get the idea from the partial successes of Relora and Fenugreek?

1/ Yes. I gave a scientific theory p33 :

Quote
A recent study measuring the levels of DHEA-s and cortisol, in connection with dissociative symptoms occurred during a stress shows that people with a higher DHEA-s/cortisol have fewer symptoms of dissociation and better overall performance.


2/ In a lot of psychiatric disorders, the dhea/cortisol ratio is not stable. More severe than brainfog, the derealization is a dissociative state  linked to this ratio.
It seems there is a double regulation between cortisol and Dhea.
- Dhea and cortisol are antagonists (high cortisol is opposed to low Dhea)
- Dhea may be converted to cortisol if needed. (high stress)
Example : panic attacks ( "A hypothetical explanation of Panic disorder" , German journal of psychiatry , 2001)
Quote
Panic attacks may be due to very low DHEA levels to relative to cortisol level possibly resulting from conversion of dhea to cortisol.
Panic/Fears = excessive stress = excessive release of cortisol = body can't answer and converts Dhea to cortisol = dissociative state
 
3/ Possible explanation for Pois :
We know that cortisol is release with stress and with inflammation too (cortisol is the anti-inflammatory hormone of body.)
After orgasm the Pois sufferers with flu-like symptoms (dr Waldinger's Pois form) may have an allergic reaction and inflammation (Il-6). Body may answer with cortisol release and may cause an unstable cortisol/Dhea ratio. I suppose the ratio is stronger with Relora (cortisol is not "wasted" all the time, DHEA 227% increased (?) is available if needed).


B_Jim, many thanks for the repeated explanations. It makes me glad that I tested DHEA-S and that I pushed the endo for cortisol testing in March!

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Offline reuniting

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2979 on: 20/01/2009 21:53:52 »
Have a look at this New York Times article:

Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2980 on: 20/01/2009 22:15:22 »
Have a look at this New York Times article:

Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html

Reuniting, thanks for that article! I would call that short-term POIS!

I just started testosterone therapy via patches. Interestingly, much of my depression lifted within 4 days! A psychiatrist confirmed that it happens frequently with low-testosterone men. Now I hope it can make a dent in my POIS, as the endocrinologist theorizes. My prolactin readings are sky-high and the hope is that the testosterone treatment will lower the prolactin and ameliorate the POIS.

Nice to see you posting again.

To everyone: Reuniting has a very interesting website with many POIS-related aspects:
www.reuniting.info
« Last Edit: 20/01/2009 22:57:04 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2981 on: 20/01/2009 22:54:29 »
Email to Author of New York Times article above, posted by reuniting:
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html

In a message dated 1/20/2009 2:40:32 P.M. PST, demografx writes:

Dear Dr. Friedman,

I was very glad to see your article because it describes a sadly unrecognized condition.

I invite you to visit a forum that I moderate, "Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome"  (POIS) at
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.new#new

We have had hundreds of POIS sufferers visit and post, and perhaps thousands lurking (200,000+ site views).

Thank you again for your article and I hope that you can inform your readers in the future that there are fellow sufferers willing to share information on treatments and allay some of the anxiety of being "the only one who has this problem."

You may be interested to know there is a medical study done on this condition, which is attached.

Sincerely,

Demografx
POIS Moderator

[NOTE to forum: the "medical study" I attached is Dr. Waldinger's.]
« Last Edit: 21/01/2009 01:07:32 by demografx »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2982 on: 20/01/2009 23:38:50 »

                    Total % loss...For me
1) openness to dating    2% loss
2) dating                     5% loss
3) arousal behavior      10% loss
4) genital contact         20%loss
5) orgasmic sexuality   95% loss

After a two day experiment at stage 2), for us, dating, my partner and I went back to stage 4), for us, non orgasmic genital contact.

I'm feeling fatigued, confused, flushed, tired, runny nose, arthritic in my knees and lower back.
I'm negotiating with my partner to do a three day experiment at stage 2, for us, after the long weekend and before a three day trip we have next week.


Steve, please stay on topic. This is a medical forum on postorgasmic difficulties. "1) 2% loss - openness to dating  2) 5% loss - dating and the like is not serious or scientific discussion of post orgasm.  

This is not a blogsite as you call it. Repeated posts to this effect will be grounds for dismissal. Thank you.                  


STEVE--

I have really appreciated your input regarding "arousal behavior" and how that affects your energy and state
of mind. I don't feel that this is "off topic," as it adds another dimension to the POIS issue. When I've thought
about this, I've realized that many of the "addictive relationships" that I've had in the past led to some of the
worst POIS episodes I've had. Probably because the STRESS of those involvements had a negative or exhausting
impact on my adrenals and my cortisol levels. 

DEMO--

There is definitely something about the "how" of sex is "performed" that has an  impact on the "what" of the
orgasm. Perhaps it has something to do with setting up exactly the WRONG kind of neurochemistry. Consider-
ing how much talk there has been about neurotransmitters and the emotional symptoms (anxiety, depression,
and other mood disorders) brought on by out-of-balance hormones, I don't think it's irrelevant to the forum
to discuss the arousal behavior issue and its impact on POIS.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2983 on: 20/01/2009 23:51:17 »
Demo, I'm glad to hear the testosterone is providing relief for you!

Very interesting article, just imagine if it mentioned us in passing, it would have been a wide net...maybe next time.  [:)]

I'm still chaste, and wishing I was from the beginning. I have grown more convinced that sex outside of emotional attraction is naturally detrimental to a person's well being.
« Last Edit: 21/01/2009 00:05:40 by John21 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2984 on: 21/01/2009 00:31:55 »

I don't think it's irrelevant to the forum to discuss the arousal behavior issue and its impact on POIS.


I agree. But the off-topic nature has gone far beyond that. To the point of hijacking the purpose of the forum. I stand by my statements.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2985 on: 21/01/2009 00:38:00 »
Currently I am not experiencing any symptoms of POIS , simply, because I am not being orgasmic.

Thanks Steve.  Tangential discussions are encouraged, but the main purpose of this specific thread, as I understand it, is to share critical information which will help us overcome this illness.  With this in mind, it is best to be precise and succinct, when possible.  Too much peripheral discussion hijacks the thread, and makes it hard for newcomers to sort through all of this information, and find the posts that will be most helpful to them.  If you feel the need to continually express the specifics of how this problem affects your romantic life on a day to day basis, (e.g. whether or not you are 2% more open to dating at a given time, e.g. whether or not the atmosphere in a 5 star restaurant made you aroused, etc.), I encourage you to continue this dialogue privately with those who have expressed interest. 
« Last Edit: 21/01/2009 00:47:58 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2986 on: 21/01/2009 00:46:08 »

Demo, I'm glad to hear the testosterone is providing relief for you!


Many thanks, John. I hope it can provide relief for others, too. Standard testosterone tests aren't enough to reveal the deficiency.


Very interesting article, just imagine if it mentioned us in passing, it would have been a wide net...maybe next time.  [:)]


I don't know if you saw my email to the author, above. That's exactly what I asked for.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg219221#msg219221


I'm still chaste, and wishing I was from the beginning. I have grown more convinced that sex outside of emotional attraction is naturally detrimental to a person's well being.


John, I wish I saw the difference in my life. Some of my absolute worst, most devastating POIS episodes have come from NE's, in some cases just "harmlesss" physical releases with no "lust" attached to it! My only escape from the horror of NE was aging.

Married for over 30 years, I have observed that sex with "emotional attraction" was equally POIS-devastating, compared to NE's and/or "unchaste behavior". I must admit to the latter to maintain credibility [:)]

ps - John, thank you for not being angry with me over our apparent disagreements on some issues
« Last Edit: 21/01/2009 04:38:23 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2987 on: 21/01/2009 00:57:35 »
Currently I am not experiencing any symptoms of POIS , simply, because I am not being orgasmic.

Thanks Steve.  Tangential discussions are encouraged, but the main purpose of this specific thread, as I understand it, is to share critical information which will help us overcome this illness.  With this in mind, it is best to be precise and succinct, when possible.  Too much peripheral discussion hijacks the thread, and makes it hard for newcomers to sort through all of this information, and find the posts that will be most helpful to them.  If you feel the need to continually express the specifics of how this problem affects your romantic life on a day to day basis, (e.g. whether or not you are 2% more open to dating at a given time, e.g. whether or not the atmosphere in a 5 star restaurant made you aroused, etc.), I encourage you to continue this dialogue privately with those who have expressed interest. 

Very well said. Thank you.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2988 on: 21/01/2009 00:59:53 »
Forum tech disruptions

Everyone is frustrated, I've written complaints.

For now, hitting the "Refresh" button is all I can suggest! [:(]

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2989 on: 21/01/2009 02:58:52 »
Have a look at this New York Times article:

Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html

This is an excellent article, Reuniting.  Finally, there is a legit article that sees this problem as a physiological/chemical malfunction.  It says his patients improved with SSRIs, but I have to say, the SSRI my neurologist gave me did nothing but reap hell upon me, and I had to get stop taking it after a week of tourture.  Has anyone else here tried an SSRI and found it improved symptoms?  If so, it would be evidence that serotonin is also part of the problem, and it would be something I would stress on my next visit to the doc.
 

Glad to hear the testosterone is helping Demo :)




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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2990 on: 21/01/2009 03:20:28 »
Have a look at this New York Times article:

Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html

This is an excellent article, Reuniting.  Finally, there is a legit article that sees this problem as a physiological/chemical malfunction.  It says his patients improved with SSRIs, but I have to say, the SSRI my neurologist gave me did nothing but reap hell upon me, and I had to get stop taking it after a week of tourture.  Has anyone else here tried an SSRI and found it improved symptoms?  If so, it would be evidence that serotonin is also part of the problem, and it would be something I would stress on my next visit to the doc.
 

Glad to hear the testosterone is helping Demo :)

Thanks, Pyro! I agree, very nice to have an article in The New York Times that treats POIS seriously, even if it is a 24-hour POIS.

I have not found SSRI's to be of help with POIS. That's just me, of course; testosterone helped me more with BOTH depression and POIS. Here are some forum posts that contain SSRI:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ssri+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=

But no champagne celebration yet. The testosterone worked on my POIS before - once - but it was depotestosterone. My current endocrinologist says that the patches that I'm now wearing work more similarly to the way the body actually produces testosterone, i.e., in a steady flow. That vs. the erratic peaks and valleys of injectables which I used before.

Hopefully, the patches will lower my sky-high prolactin and will thus lower or eliminate my POIS! If not, I have a doctor-partner that's willing to go back to the drawing board.

Oh well, I'm happy being a guinea pig for the forum [:)]
« Last Edit: 21/01/2009 03:27:38 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2991 on: 21/01/2009 04:34:46 »
Underwater,

I just looked at my lab report, and it shows in the testosterone area:

- Testosterone, Bioavailable

- Testosterone, Total

- (SHGB) Sex Hormone Globulin Binding

- Testosterone, Free


Underwater, in the above post, I left out LH (Leutinizing Hormone) another testosterone test.

What reminded me was that I just now got results of my repeat Testosterone and LH tests - they were both low again.

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Offline Pro

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2992 on: 21/01/2009 08:15:27 »
Hello again-

Thank you all for your responses and generous support. To my knowledge, the longest I have been in 20 yrs. w/out the big Orgsm is a week and a half. That really doesn't sound very long, does it?
What I remember during that time is that I felt more alive than usual- and I felt that I actually had the ability to control events in my life. Coming out of this abstinence was a gradual decline- 1st 'O'- no big deal- just a slight break in my momentum... 2nd 'O'- loss of motivation and energy. By this point... there was no way I was going to stop...3rd 'O'- loss of self-confidence and any logical plans for my future. I have also stopped for shorter periods of time and have "re-entered" the same way, just less dramatically.


***Do all people that have this illness have some other problem (mental, maybe physical), or is this illness the originator of these apparent problems?

Anyway, I have thoroughly researched and taken (for whatever reason) many supplements for the past 15 years. Here is what I'm taking now :

gnc Mega-Men multi vitamin
fish oil
lecithin
ginseng
ginko
vit b
vit c
spirulina
gnc fruit powder drink
chromium picolinate
DMAE
zoloft

Right now, I am thinking that high doses of spirulina, vit b, and lecithin are saving my ass.
I just started DMAE... has this been discussed here before?

By the way, for me zoloft (ssri) has worked... but just like everything else, after awhile- I can't tell if it is working anymore or not.
« Last Edit: 26/01/2009 23:27:09 by Pro »

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2993 on: 21/01/2009 08:42:41 »

DMAE
zoloft

Right now, I am thinking that high doses of spirulina, vit b, and lecithin are saving my ass.
I just started DMAE... has this been discussed here before?

By the way, for me zoloft (ssri) has worked... but just like everything else, after awhile- I can't tell if it is working anymore or not.

I used to use DMAE long before finding this forum.  It did give me a slight mental boost due to the supposed increase in acetylcholine in the brain, and it did help overcome the brain fog a little, but ultimately it just gave me really bad headaches.  It didn't seem to combat the POIS, but rather just give me a little mental boost to fight the brain-fog...kinda like how cold medicine just masks the symptoms of the cold.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2994 on: 21/01/2009 10:50:30 »
Demo,
Quote
John, I wish I saw the difference in my life. Some of my absolute worst, most devastating POIS episodes have come from NE's, in some cases just "harmlesss" physical releases with no "lust" attached to it! My only escape from the horror of NE was aging.

Married for over 30 years, I have observed that sex with "emotional attraction" was equally POIS-devastating, compared to NE's and/or "unchaste behavior". I must admit to the latter to maintain credibility

ps - John, thank you for not being angry with me over our apparent disagreements on some issues

Yes this is my experience too. I have been in relationships and have indeed suffered POIS. Yet I have also had the experience of feeling a strong connection during and having no symptoms, and my double vision immediately went away (woke up without it!) So I am wondering if emotions or lack thereof play a part in the development of POIS. Perhaps "emotional attachment" is a better description of what should be in place. When I was young with a shiny magazine I didn't have this "attachment". And for whatever reason perhaps some people's neurochemistry (ours) is more severely reactive to this.

Of course I am not angry with you, differing opinions are desirable in a forum. I sense that perhaps you are cautious of my pro-chastity/ anti-lust tack, as you know it is founded in my faith, which you reject. Am I right?

A short trial of DMAE did nothing for me, and years of SSRIs did not help POIS directly at all.
« Last Edit: 21/01/2009 10:52:37 by John21 »

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2995 on: 21/01/2009 16:10:05 »
...differing opinions are desirable in a forum. I sense that perhaps you are cautious of my pro-chastity/ anti-lust tack, as you know it is founded in my faith, which you reject. Am I right?
"how tired am I going to be, if I go through to the orgasm?" Though that is something I have now trained myself (quite successfully) to avoid.

John,

That's what has worked for me for 20 months, and I think Girlwind as well. I like what Nike says "Just don't do it".

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Offline SteveD

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2996 on: 21/01/2009 16:13:39 »
Orgasm...not sex, that is.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2997 on: 21/01/2009 17:35:57 »
PRO
Yes, I have another condition besides POIS. I have an anxiety disorder.
My anxiety disorder very likely came first, 30 plus years ago. POIS evolved after that; when exactly I don't know. My anxiety disorder has been cyclical during my life.
I can have many years anxiety free. Right now I am, hopefully, concluding one of these episodes (anxiety) after 20 months. For me, the intensity of POIS is generally connected to my anxiety condition; much less when no anxiety, however a major depressant. I tried Zoloft for one year in the 90's. It didn't do anything. In this current anxiety episode, I have tried to refrain from "O". I intend to carefully watch the momentum gained from this latest anxiety-episode-resolution and see if it has an effect on POIS. This will be carefully observed, very likely, after a NE. 

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2998 on: 21/01/2009 17:42:02 »
Hey guys reporting on alpha 20c
I had a seriously unwanted Full NE but I used Alpha twenty right after and also before i went back to sleep at end of day. 5g powder form.    I don't know if it is fluke or not but my symptoms have improved.
No brain fog
Extreme tirdeness dissapeared 
I will report on concentration tomorrow and socialization after about two weeks.
I don't  know if i am a naturally quiet person or may be i am being affected by pois, i should know in about two weeks.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #2999 on: 21/01/2009 18:45:53 »
B_Jim---
Have you used fenugreek and relora only as a "before and after" experiment, or have you ever tried it/them on a daily basis? Thanks