Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3250 on: 02/02/2009 19:52:22 »
I don't want to spend my life studying endocrinology.

I didn't either, and now look what I've gotten myself into! I have become the resident blood test referral service for hormones. 
 [>:(] [;)] [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3251 on: 02/02/2009 20:55:43 »

Demografx, nice to hear that the testosterone makes you feel better at the moment, do you notice any side effects?


Thanks, deloun. Yep, pain-in-the-neck (figuratively) side effect is itchiness. And some slight burning. All fairly tolerable, though.

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3252 on: 02/02/2009 22:19:04 »
Consider that some MDs are to busy to research the latest hormone studies/information and that their not people who are sick.  I didn't sign up for a career in hormone research but it's what I got to do and where I am in life.

TSH Update - I've taken 50mgs of presecription T4 for one week, now.  No noticeable changes so far.  I'm hoping one day I wake up shiny and squeeky clean.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3253 on: 02/02/2009 23:35:40 »
while waiting for doctor, i was thinking of overdosing on vit b6. I read at about 200mg it can reduce prolactin amount in body.


Overdosing on B6?  This sounds like a very bad idea. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B6#Toxicity .
Also, do you even know you have high prolactin?  I don't have high prolactin.  And neither did the people in Dr. Waldinger's study.  I would guess that many people here do not have high prolactin.  100 mg/day of B6 is probably ok.  But
1) You don't know if you have high prolactin
2) You don't know if B6 will reduce prolactin
3) Taking B6 in high doses (e.g. 200 mg+/day) is harmful.  Most physicians would warn you against this.

You are perfectly right but i was playing the guessing game and hoping i could cut down recovery day. 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3254 on: 03/02/2009 01:51:32 »
CC, haven't heard from Jane Ashby yet, but at least SSTAR forwarded my letter to the "right" Jane Ashby.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3255 on: 03/02/2009 02:00:54 »

I assumed my disappointment with testosterone inj. was because I had high SHBG levels, and that the extra test I was taking was largely getting bound to by SHBG.


Acronym, my endo said that injectables (which I tried before) produce too erratic results and that patches provide a smooth, steady flow, mimicking the body's mode of T-delivery. Anyway, that's what I'm doing now.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3256 on: 03/02/2009 05:45:16 »
goingcrazy, your public post has been returned to you via Private Message for editing before posting again. We ask that you retain a little bit of professional demeanor in your posting, as we are part of a scientific forum. "Wanking," "choke the chicken" plus a 3rd religious-mocking reference are highlighted for change in bold in your Private Message. The Private Message button is located at the top of this page. Click on "Messages" and it will be in your inbox. Thank you very much for your cooperation.

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3257 on: 03/02/2009 05:53:15 »
Hey guys, I am yet another sufferer of POIS ... I haven't read too much of what you guys wrote, but I was wondering when you guys first saw symptoms of your disease?  I used to have sex  ever so often... but about my third year of doing it I was feeling these really bad side effects you mention... anxiety,fatigue,brain fog, basically too tired and stressed to do anything .  Until I learned that these all went away when I didn't masturbate. Yesterday I felt to good and thought I was cured of this POIS until i did it again, bringing back all of the bad feelings it has to offer... so my question is, when did you start feeling these bad after effects?  I noticed that as soon as I started to drink coffee I was having these bad sex side effects, but yet i don't know ... Things that I have found helpful were calcium magnesium, vitamin B, restraining from sex<-- best answer, and phenylaline.  I was chewing big red gum yesterday and noticed that I felt a bit of normality because of the phenylaline.  I wish I didn't do it yesterday because now i don't feel too good... it takes me about a week to recover and get my head back...
 
 
   
   
I also have another question... I know symptoms go away after about a week, but has anybody ever tried to go lets say a month and than masturbate once?  Do you go right back to the POIS stage?  Giving it that amount of time might give your body enough time to replenish whatever it is missing and needed when recovering from sex.

So is anybody like me and besides the masterbating... had another influence on their heads? like coffee? that causes the POIS?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3258 on: 03/02/2009 06:12:43 »

my question is, when did you start feeling these bad after effects?  I noticed that as soon as I started to drink coffee I was having these bad sex side effects, but yet i don't know


I can't recall when the first POIS episode was, but I can remember back 30 years. Interesting that you bring up coffee, I started drinking it around the time I remember POIS, give or take a couple years. Some people think coffee = adrenal fatigue = POIS. My personal opinion is that the jury is out on this one.


I also have another question... I know symptoms go away after about a week, but has anybody ever tried to go lets say a month and than masturbate once?  Do you go right back to the POIS stage?  Giving it that amount of time might give your body enough time to replenish whatever it is missing and needed when recovering from sex.


My experience is that no matter how long you abstain, POIS appears full-blown from any form of sexual orgasm. "Recovery time" doesn't affect the "nuclear holocaust",known as POIS.


So is anybody like me and besides the masterbating... had another influence on their heads? like coffee? that causes the POIS?


Your situation is commonplace. Causes? We're still searching, but focused more on curing and/or diminishing POIS effects.
« Last Edit: 03/02/2009 07:23:03 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3259 on: 03/02/2009 06:34:08 »
goingcrazy, here are some forum resources which may be helpful:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video: A first!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

New York Times article,
January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

« Last Edit: 03/02/2009 07:39:14 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3260 on: 03/02/2009 07:06:42 »
 [;D] [;D] A Cure For POIS???  [;D] [;D]

This comment was posted at Girlwind's POIS YouTube video site:

"Semen is high in fructose. Orgasm releases semen so the fructose and glucose in the blood are used to replenish, causing hypoglycemia. Most of these symptoms are hypoglycemia related. Eat some fruit and rest 12 minutes after orgasm."

Can we all celebrate now? [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3261 on: 03/02/2009 07:10:39 »
Forum tech disruptions

Everyone is frustrated, I've written complaints. Another one today.

For now, hitting the "Refresh" button is all I can suggest! [:(]


Thanks for you patience, everybody!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3262 on: 03/02/2009 07:17:26 »
I don't want to spend my life studying endocrinology.

I didn't either, and now look what I've gotten myself into! I have become the resident blood test referral service for hormones. 
 [>:(] [;)] [:)]

I can think of worse careers... [:)]

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3263 on: 03/02/2009 07:29:51 »
Demografx, you recently said that no matter how long you abstain from orgasm the effects will still be there after orgasm. (sorry for my inability to quote) How long did you remain celibate for?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3264 on: 03/02/2009 07:51:38 »

Demografx, you recently said that no matter how long you abstain from orgasm the effects will still be there after orgasm. (sorry for my inability to quote) How long did you remain celibate for?


I've gone 2-3 months many a time. Very disappointing, I thought "recovery time" would work. It never did.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3265 on: 03/02/2009 08:07:08 »

Consider that some MDs are to busy to research the latest hormone studies/information and that their not people who are sick.  I didn't sign up for a career in hormone research but it's what I got to do and where I am in life.

TSH Update - I've taken 50mgs of presecription T4 for one week, now.  No noticeable changes so far.  I'm hoping one day I wake up shiny and squeeky clean.

Excellent points, Limejuice!

And best wishes with the T-4! Shiny and squeaky clean would be nice!

ps - someone once told me, "find a doctor with POIS and you'll get results!" Talk about motivation.....
« Last Edit: 03/02/2009 08:15:19 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3267 on: 03/02/2009 15:34:47 »
Re: Fructose and chewing gum with phenylalanine----
Demo and Goingcrazy:
In the past I have noticed short term, surprising mood enhancement when I have chewed gum with phenylalanine. I just thought it was me or a freak occurrence. I will focus more on this. Also, I have always felt significantly better when I have had a large fruit salad made by my wife. This is no matter what my situation, GAD or POIS. Again, I haven't really focused on this much. I have done some research into hypoglycemic reactions, but I haven't seriously gone into it re: POIS. My wife has been yelling at me for 20 years to each "much more" fresh fruit. Again, she's probably right and I'm a stubborn fool. Maybe I'll move a "reaction up" and try some Pheylalanine instead of L Tyrosine and see what happens (in the dopamine production sequence). This last week I've feel like a friggin pin ball or better yet a random ping pong ball in the lottery machine.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3268 on: 03/02/2009 17:37:22 »
B_JIM

[;D] Forget fructose depletion theory of youtube's comment. ? ? ? ? ?

As an athlete, POIS/GAD may be a bit more complex, as my blood sugar fluctuates a lot.
POIS is bad enough, but when you are naturally fatigued, it is definitely worse.
Granted, the fructose depletion theory is not an answer, but sugar [whether fructose, glucose, maltose, galactose etc] may not only play a part for highly active individuals, but anyone who might naturally get fatigued. We all need proper metabolism or our bodies can't do anything; this means synthesizing proteins, hormones or anything else. This is why breathing and oxygen are essential also.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3269 on: 03/02/2009 18:24:36 »
I'm ready to make the tests recommanded by Michael, Girlwind and others but  only in blood, not saliva :/ I would prefer saliva tests at least for cortisol and Dhea. The good point is i will test pregnenolone too. That's a good point for me considering my low cholesterol.


 [;D] Forget fructose depletion theory of youtube's comment. 

In the blood, cortisol is linked to corticosteroid binding globulin (CBG).
On the saliva, cortisol is free.

I would seriously consider 24 hr urine catecholamine, metanephrine and cortisol tests, given possible link to pheochromocytoma, and also the article on the neuroendocrine response to orgasm, and also our own speculation about catecholamines.

Good luck!

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3270 on: 03/02/2009 18:42:06 »
Also with respect to Metabolism etc:
Keep in mind that the only reported cure for POIS in this forum has been from an incredibly fit 24 year old athlete/boxer. I can tell you that his routine probably is quite exhausting.  Elite athletes also pay attention to their physiques, and tend to develop muscle easier. Young athletes tend to have great metabolism and an ability to sustain discomfort. Endorphins are at their call. I experienced this in my late 20's and early 30's. I submit there is a big difference in circulation, metabolism, recovery time, and general physiological response between an elite, young athlete and one who is not. Might these factors have an impact on POIS? 

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3271 on: 03/02/2009 18:48:47 »
Re: Fructose and chewing gum with phenylalanine----
Demo and Goingcrazy:
In the past I have noticed short term, surprising mood enhancement when I have chewed gum with phenylalanine. I just thought it was me or a freak occurrence. I will focus more on this. Also, I have always felt significantly better when I have had a large fruit salad made by my wife. This is no matter what my situation, GAD or POIS. Again, I haven't really focused on this much. I have done some research into hypoglycemic reactions, but I haven't seriously gone into it re: POIS. My wife has been yelling at me for 20 years to each "much more" fresh fruit. Again, she's probably right and I'm a stubborn fool. Maybe I'll move a "reaction up" and try some Pheylalanine instead of L Tyrosine and see what happens (in the dopamine production sequence). This last week I've feel like a friggin pin ball or better yet a random ping pong ball in the lottery machine.

Yes, the Phenylalanine definitely has some good qualities, for me (a quick gum chewer), sunday night (the night I had sex) I just began to chew 5 big red gum, but not only did I just have one piece, I would say I had 10 pieces within half hour.  It enhances your mood, but also makes you sweat and feel hot.  I would say its worth it and definitely has something to do with POIS.  I might just have two chew 3 packs of 5 big red gum for 3 days to reduce the after effects of sex.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3272 on: 03/02/2009 18:51:26 »
Wow, Goingcrazy------
You just answered questions that I was about to ask. Thank you!
Could you please tell me the brand of this gum?
thanks

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3273 on: 03/02/2009 18:54:26 »
Wow, Goingcrazy------
You just answered questions that I was about to ask. Thank you!
Could you please tell me the brand of this gum?
thanks


It is called 5 Flare,  you can see it here.      http://theconsumerscorner.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/5-gum.jpg

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3274 on: 03/02/2009 19:23:09 »

Demografx, you recently said that no matter how long you abstain from orgasm the effects will still be there after orgasm. (sorry for my inability to quote) How long did you remain celibate for?


I've gone 2-3 months many a time. Very disappointing, I thought "recovery time" would work. It never did.


How do you go 2-3 months without orgasm when nocturnal emission is waiting for you. Nowadays i recover and NE sends me right back into cycle, any thoughts on controlling that.     

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3275 on: 03/02/2009 19:25:39 »
CC, haven't heard from Jane Ashby yet, but at least SSTAR forwarded my letter to the "right" Jane Ashby.

Nice job on that, i wish she responds faster to see whether has good information. 
Do you think they will rather have us come to their program.

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3276 on: 03/02/2009 20:16:31 »
Ever since sleeping on my side, I don't get NEs.  Occationally I'll roll on my back or chest unintentionally while sleeping and an NE will happen.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3277 on: 03/02/2009 21:30:36 »
Also with respect to Metabolism etc:
Keep in mind that the only reported cure for POIS in this forum has been from an incredibly fit 24 year old athlete/boxer. I can tell you that his routine probably is quite exhausting.  Elite athletes also pay attention to their physiques, and tend to develop muscle easier. Young athletes tend to have great metabolism and an ability to sustain discomfort. Endorphins are at their call. I experienced this in my late 20's and early 30's. I submit there is a big difference in circulation, metabolism, recovery time, and general physiological response between an elite, young athlete and one who is not. Might these factors have an impact on POIS? 

I think overall fitness is a big factor in recovery from any condition. But the other side of the story is that someone
who IS SO FIT managed to get POIS in spite of it. So that says that endocrine functioning can be seriously adversely
affected by working out TOO HARD and burning the adrenals too intensely, no matter what one's fitness level is. It
also says that with the right treatment this endocrine depletion could be remedied. I think it's a good & hopeful sign.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3278 on: 04/02/2009 01:22:40 »
CC, haven't heard from Jane Ashby yet, but at least SSTAR forwarded my letter to the "right" Jane Ashby.

Nice job on that, i wish she responds faster to see whether has good information. 
Do you think they will rather have us come to their program.

It sounds like a good program, but I'm not near Arlington. Besides, if she doesn't respond there will be others.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3279 on: 04/02/2009 01:24:40 »

Demografx, you recently said that no matter how long you abstain from orgasm the effects will still be there after orgasm. (sorry for my inability to quote) How long did you remain celibate for?


I've gone 2-3 months many a time. Very disappointing, I thought "recovery time" would work. It never did.


How do you go 2-3 months without orgasm when nocturnal emission is waiting for you. Nowadays i recover and NE sends me right back into cycle, any thoughts on controlling that.     

I finally found the solution to NE's: aging. (No, I'm not saying how old [:)]) But I've dropped hints.
« Last Edit: 04/02/2009 01:26:44 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3280 on: 04/02/2009 01:29:54 »

...medical school will stress the hell out of a POIS Sufferer.


Amazing, CC! I just thought the same thing soon after posting!
« Last Edit: 05/02/2009 00:14:29 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3281 on: 04/02/2009 01:33:55 »
Underwater, excellent point you made about a super-fit athlete of 24 curing POIS vs. the rest of us plain humanoids!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3282 on: 04/02/2009 01:36:59 »

I think overall fitness is a big factor in recovery from any condition. But the other side of the story is that someone
who IS SO FIT managed to get POIS in spite of it. So that says that endocrine functioning can be seriously adversely
affected by working out TOO HARD and burning the adrenals too intensely, no matter what one's fitness level is. It
also says that with the right treatment this endocrine depletion could be remedied. I think it's a good & hopeful sign.


Excellent points, Girlwind!

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3283 on: 04/02/2009 03:53:18 »
I do realize that you may have gone over this already due to the 140 pages of comments, but do you realize other people have sex all the time and don't have side effects like we do? There has to be some outside force or something that is not working in our heads after orgasm, maybe a certain chemical that is supposed to be released isn't actually being released... this could just all be due to one chemical... but the only other influence on my head at the time of when I first had POIS symptoms was the coffee.  Maybe it depleted some chemical in our heads that was supposed to be released after orgasm.  Have any/all of you drank coffee when you experienced the symptoms? because that would help a lot for me determining if coffee played a role in this... again... sex was fine until I started drinking coffee I believe.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3284 on: 04/02/2009 04:06:17 »
Hi goingcrazy.  You may be interested in the questionnaire at http://pois.olympe-network.com

Once you complete it, you can see other people's responses, too.

I get POIS-like symptoms when I drink coffee. 

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3285 on: 04/02/2009 05:04:43 »
CC, haven't heard from Jane Ashby yet, but at least SSTAR forwarded my letter to the "right" Jane Ashby.

what do you mean by there will be others

Nice job on that, i wish she responds faster to see whether has good information. 
Do you think they will rather have us come to their program.

It sounds like a good program, but I'm not near Arlington. Besides, if she doesn't respond there will be others.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3286 on: 04/02/2009 05:10:58 »
I do realize that you may have gone over this already due to the 140 pages of comments, but do you realize other people have sex all the time and don't have side effects like we do? There has to be some outside force or something that is not working in our heads after orgasm, maybe a certain chemical that is supposed to be released isn't actually being released... this could just all be due to one chemical... but the only other influence on my head at the time of when I first had POIS symptoms was the coffee.  Maybe it depleted some chemical in our heads that was supposed to be released after orgasm.  Have any/all of you drank coffee when you experienced the symptoms? because that would help a lot for me determining if coffee played a role in this... again... sex was fine until I started drinking coffee I believe.

I was never a heavy coffee drinker but i think i can say, pois got worse after i started drinking. I started drinking in college and noticed full pois in college.

On drinking coffee during pois.  Coffee dosnt help, sometimes it kinda makes it worse. I get a sense that my brain wants to think clearer but it cant.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3287 on: 04/02/2009 05:14:13 »
Has anybody noticed during pois, their dreams get less intense, during pois i can never remember my dream.  Out of pois i can rember it at least during the first thirty minutes i wake up.

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3288 on: 04/02/2009 05:20:25 »
Has anybody noticed during pois, their dreams get less intense, during pois i can never remember my dream.  Out of pois i can rember it at least during the first thirty minutes i wake up.

yeah its weird,  days when I orgasm and go to sleep during pois I don't really "dream". Im in this state of anxiety and may dream for about an hour then wake up and check the clock.  It is also weird how pois affects our mind state, like I know I can think clearer than how I am thinking, but yet the pois is blocking that "clear thinking" ability

to be sure of the abstinence thing, I'm not going to have sex at all for a year and then do it and see what happens
« Last Edit: 04/02/2009 05:22:32 by goingcrazy »

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3289 on: 04/02/2009 05:30:14 »
And about the NE's, how long until you experience these NE's after an orgasm [?]  I hope that these emissions don't actually "cause" orgasm in your head but only release semen.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3290 on: 04/02/2009 11:41:50 »
I do realize that you may have gone over this already due to the 140 pages of comments, but do you realize other people have sex all the time and don't have side effects like we do? There has to be some outside force or something that is not working in our heads after orgasm, maybe a certain chemical that is supposed to be released isn't actually being released... this could just all be due to one chemical... but the only other influence on my head at the time of when I first had POIS symptoms was the coffee.  Maybe it depleted some chemical in our heads that was supposed to be released after orgasm.  Have any/all of you drank coffee when you experienced the symptoms? because that would help a lot for me determining if coffee played a role in this... again... sex was fine until I started drinking coffee I believe.

I've always avoided drinking coffee because of the POIS symptoms of tension / restlessness, so I just assumed that it isn't good for me. So to be honest I don't really know the effect on my POIS symptoms.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3291 on: 04/02/2009 11:44:40 »
Has anybody noticed during pois, their dreams get less intense, during pois i can never remember my dream.  Out of pois i can rember it at least during the first thirty minutes i wake up.

Indeed, I've noticed the exact same.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3292 on: 04/02/2009 11:49:45 »
And about the NE's, how long until you experience these NE's after an orgasm [?]  I hope that these emissions don't actually "cause" orgasm in your head but only release semen.

I can't tell how long because it differs, but it definitely causes POIS for me. Maybe it helps to avoid nocturnal emissions by trying to avoid as much sexual impressions as possible, although that is quite hard because it's everywhere.

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3293 on: 04/02/2009 19:56:55 »
The theory that I have about POIS, is that the symptoms may be caused by a deficiency of one or more of the catecholamines of which noradrenaline may be the most relevant.

There are several points that may lead into this direction:

- During sexual activity noradrenaline levels rise and after orgasm they drop. (1)
- Having a shower with alternating hot and cold water and the sauna including cooling down with a cold water bath / shower both help reducing the symptoms. Noradrenaline and adrenaline levels rise significantly when the body is subjected to cold stress. (2) (3)
- During a period in which POIS symptoms occur, I can have an enlarged / swollen penis. Continuous release of noradrenaline is necessary to keep the penis in a non-erectile state. (4)
- Human semen contains high levels of catecholamines. (5)
- The symptoms of a depletion of catecholamines are similar to many symptoms related to POIS. In the scientific research linked as reference a depletion of dopamine is induced, though this is likely to cause a depletion of noradrenaline and adrenaline besides dopamine alone, as a consequence. Since noradrenaline and adrenaline are produced from dopamine in the body. (6)
- PDE4 inhibits the cyclic AMP (cAMP), which has an inhibition of noradrenaline and adrenaline as a consequence. Therefore, a PDE4-inhibitor has the opposite effect, an increase of cAMP and noradrenaline levels. (7) (8)
- Among other areas in the body, PDE4 has also been found in male and female sexual organs. I'm not sure if this is relevant. (9) (10)
- Sceletium Tortuosum helps reducing POIS symptoms. It's a herb of which the main active alkaloid is mesembrine, which is a PDE4 inhibitor with a mechanism in a way similar to rolipram (11) that raises levels of noradrenaline. (7) (8)
- Thinking back about it, I remember that recreational use of amphetamines (speed) in the past showed a reduction of symptoms and after the effects wore off, an increase of the severity of the symptoms was noticed for up until about a week, possibly because of a depletion of noradrenaline. I already had POIS long before I had used any amphetamines, by the way. Amphetamines are known to increase levels of noradrenaline and a temporary depletion of noradrenaline after use is possible.
- Garlic has been reported to help reducing POIS symptoms. Garlic can increase noradrenaline and adrenaline levels. (12)
- Fenugreek has been reported to help reducing POIS symptoms. Fenugreek contains diosgenin, which can produce an oxytocin-like effect. Oxytocin can increase noradrenaline levels. (13)
- Celtic salt has been reported to help reducing POIS symptoms. That person might be sensitive to salt-induced hypertension, which can cause an increase in plasma noradrenaline and adrenaline levels. (14) Another possibility is that the level of oxytocin increases by the salt. (15) Oxytocin can increase noradrenaline levels. (13)

- Blood test results showed a deficiency of noradrenaline and adrenaline. During the collection of blood for the tests, only mild POIS symptoms were experienced, during a period of more severe symptoms there may be an even greater deficiency. (16)


(1) Plasma noradrenaline and dopamine-beta-hydroxylase during sexual activity. Link to full text (PDF) is also available at that website.
(2) The Influence of Cold Stress on Catecholamine Excretion and Oxygen Uptake of Normal Person.
(3) Interrelations between Sympathoadrenal System and Hypothalamo-Pituitary-Adrenocortical/Thyroid Systems in Rats Exposed to Cold Stress.
(4) Physiological significance of nitrergic transmission in human penile erection.
(5) High levels of catecholamines in human semen: a preliminary study.
(6) Subjective Experiences During Dopamine Depletion.
(7) Rolipram, an Antidepressant That Increases the Availability of cAMP, Transiently Enhances Wakefulness in Rats.
(8) The antidepressant and antiinflammatory effects of rolipram in the central nervous system.
(9) Immunohistochemical Distribution of cAMP- and cGMP-Phosphodiesterase (PDE) Isoenzymes in the Human Prostate.
(10) Immunohistochemical Description of Cyclic Nucleotide Phosphodiesterase (PDE) Isoenzymes in the Human Labia Minora.
(11) Mesembrine is an inhibitor of PDE4 that follows structure-activity relationship of rolipram.
(12) Allyl-Containing Sulfides in Garlic Increase Uncoupling Protein Content in Brown Adipose Tissue, and Noradrenaline and Adrenaline Secretion in Rats  ("Administration of diallyldisulfide, diallyltrisulfide and alliin, organosulfur compounds present in garlic, significantly increased plasma noradrenaline and adrenaline concentrations").
(13) Facilitative role of endogenous oxytocin in noradrenaline release in the rat supraoptic nucleus.
(14) Genetic influence on brain catecholamines: high brain noradrenaline in salt-sensitive rats.
(15) Release of oxytocin induced by salt loading and its influence on renal excretion in the male rat.
(16) Test results of neurotransmitters, hormones, etc..

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3294 on: 04/02/2009 20:36:01 »
Deloun, say that low noradrenaline is the cause of your POIS.  How would you test your theory?

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3295 on: 04/02/2009 21:09:53 »
Deloun, say that low noradrenaline is the cause of your POIS.  How would you test your theory?

Maybe there are several things that can be done to test that, like more blood / urine tests that are relevant, presenting this information and theory to a doctor that can help in this area, testing what the effect is regarding POIS of certain medicines that increase noradrenaline levels, like PDE4 inhibitors, noradrenaline re-uptake inhibitors like reboxetine or atomoxetine (Strattera) or stimulants. I'm also planning to make an appointment with an endocrinologist and to present him this theory and information.


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3296 on: 04/02/2009 23:05:16 »

The theory that I have about POIS, is that the symptoms may be caused by a deficiency of one or more of the catecholamines of which noradrenaline may be the most relevant.


Fascinating theory and most exhaustive post, Deloun!
« Last Edit: 04/02/2009 23:12:24 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3297 on: 04/02/2009 23:18:46 »

I have always felt significantly better when I have had a large fruit salad made by my wife.


What if it were made by someone else? [;D]

(sorry, couldn't resist).

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3298 on: 04/02/2009 23:58:18 »

B_JIM

[;D] Forget fructose depletion theory of youtube's comment. ? ? ? ? ?


Underwater, I think the naive humor in the youtube post was "eat some fruit, rest 12 minutes" and you're cured of POIS!  [:)]
« Last Edit: 05/02/2009 00:00:25 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3299 on: 05/02/2009 00:04:27 »

I'm ready to make the tests recommanded by Michael, Girlwind and others but  only in blood, not saliva :/ I would prefer saliva tests at least for cortisol and Dhea. The good point is i will test pregnenolone too. That's a good point for me considering my low cholesterol.


B_Jim, congratulations on the testing progress!