Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline rob58

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3600 on: 24/02/2009 10:25:07 »
Have been traveling, so catching up now on lots of interesting posts.  Mostly wanted to react to John23's comments. My voice gets deeper too after O (for a day or two).  Also, the list of symptoms related to hypogonadism comes very close to my key symptoms, except that I definitely do not suffer from "small gonads".  All this points to a very puzzling dynamics in the link between testosterone and POIS. 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3601 on: 24/02/2009 22:07:18 »

I often wondered whether Demografx and I were approaching the same solution from different directions. The articles below hint strongly that Viagra can have the effect of increasing oxytocin production during orgasm:

http://www.reuniting.info/science/viagra_and_oxytocin
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=29102

Now I know Viagra and Levitra aren't identical, but their effects are sufficiently alike that you have to wonder whether Levitra might not also aid in increasing oxytocin production?


I initially started taking Fenugreek to try to boost my oxytocin levels - could we both be achieving the same effect using different methods?


Yes, Hurray, I've been thinking that way for some time, even posted briefly about Levitra stimulating oxytocin. So I really appreciate hearing that from you as well.

Viagra might be the same. I'm just afraid to try it, because I tried Cialis and it was a disaster. But Cialis I think works differently to produce that very-long lasting effect (36 hours?).

But in my case, I think testosterone - in combination with Levitra - plays a critical part of my POIS cure. When testosterone was out of my system, Levitra worked very poorly alone. Sometimes, some drugs simply stop working, but my intuiition says it was the combination that was critical.
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 06:57:06 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3602 on: 24/02/2009 22:13:39 »

Have been traveling, so catching up now on lots of interesting posts.  Mostly wanted to react to John23's comments. My voice gets deeper too after O (for a day or two).  Also, the list of symptoms related to hypogonadism comes very close to my key symptoms, except that I definitely do not suffer from "small gonads".  All this points to a very puzzling dynamics in the link between testosterone and POIS. 


Rob, welcome back. I think hypogonadism refers to "little hormone production" not size. In fact, hypogonadism is the diagnosis that my endocrinologist writes down for the university lab that does my bloodwork.
« Last Edit: 24/02/2009 22:18:33 by demografx »

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3603 on: 24/02/2009 23:56:46 »

Yes, hurray, I've been thinking that way for some time, even posted briefly about Levitra stimulating oxytocin. So I really appreciate hearing that from you as well.

Viagra might be the same. I'm just afraid to try it, because I tried Cialis and it was a disaster. But Cialis I think works differently to produce that very-long lasting effect (36 hours?).

But in my case, I think testosterone - in combination with Levitra - plays a critical part of my POIS cure. When testosterone was out of my system, Levitra worked very poorly alone. Sometimes, some drugs simply stop working, but my intuiition says it was the combination that was critical.

I think all 3 drugs are supposed to be PDE5 inhibitors, but only Cialis has the long-lasting effects - so it would seem likely that V+L were the most closely linked.

Your success with testosterone and Levitra sounds like a real breakthough! I wonder whether this approach would work with some of the other POIS sufferers on the board (strict medical supervision permitting)?


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3604 on: 25/02/2009 00:28:53 »

Yes, hurray, I've been thinking that way for some time, even posted briefly about Levitra stimulating oxytocin. So I really appreciate hearing that from you as well.

Viagra might be the same. I'm just afraid to try it, because I tried Cialis and it was a disaster. But Cialis I think works differently to produce that very-long lasting effect (36 hours?).

But in my case, I think testosterone - in combination with Levitra - plays a critical part of my POIS cure. When testosterone was out of my system, Levitra worked very poorly alone. Sometimes, some drugs simply stop working, but my intuiition says it was the combination that was critical.

I think all 3 drugs are supposed to be PDE5 inhibitors, but only Cialis has the long-lasting effects - so it would seem likely that V+L were the most closely linked.

Your success with testosterone and Levitra sounds like a real breakthough! I wonder whether this approach would work with some of the other POIS sufferers on the board (strict medical supervision permitting)?


Hurray, you said the key words: strict medical supervision. Yes, I believe some people could definitely benefit from the same treatment as mine for POIS. It was an absolute miracle for me, and I wish everyone could experience it. But I do have ED and I do have low testosterone, which both medicines are targeted for. It could be dangerous to try this combination without those symptoms and careful medical supervision.

The breakthrough for me was finding a top endocrinologist. And one from a University such as mine may be more research-oriented.

I do hope it is a breakthrough, Hurray! (For others besides me).
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 07:01:20 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3605 on: 25/02/2009 07:33:18 »
Notice to follow
« Last Edit: 05/03/2009 00:00:47 by Counterpoints »

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3606 on: 25/02/2009 18:11:46 »
Getting the right medical expertise seems to be the key to nailing POIS - hope it continues to work for you Demo :)

Not exactly specific to MRI, Counterpoints, but the thing that I would most want to do with MRI (or extensive hormone level testing) would be to test as many variables as possible over time. Obviously, the more frequently the better, but this may be impractical.

Say you did a test a few hours after a POIS-inducing orgasm, then one day later at the same time, and so on for 7 days. Whatever readings change the most over time are likely to be central to the action of your POIS symptoms - you might be able to establish a set of conditions which would allow you to tell purely from the MRI data what stage of POIS you were in. Perhaps this would qualify as "proving" the existence of POIS, at least in your case.

Not sure if that was the kind of idea you were after Counterpoints ...
« Last Edit: 25/02/2009 18:36:22 by hurray »

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3607 on: 25/02/2009 18:37:09 »

One other thing - when I am suffering from POIS, it physically feels as if my frontal lobe of my brain has almost closed down, and what conscious thoughts I am having are coming from the sides of my brain, which apparently are the temporal lobes.

Wikipedia says:

Damage to the frontal lobes can lead to a variety of results:

Mental flexibility and spontaneity are impaired, but IQ is not reduced.
Talking may increase or decrease dramatically.
Perceptions regarding risk taking and rule abiding are impaired.
Socialization can diminish or increase.
Orbital frontal lobe damage can result in peculiar sexual habits.
Dorsolateral frontal lobe damage reduces sexual interest.
Creativity is diminished as well as problem solving skills.
Distraction occurs more frequently

Some of these certainly ring true from my experience of POIS. If I had to guess which area of the brain was most affected by POIS, I would definitely pick the frontal lobes. Plus, the frontal lobes is where most of the dopamine lives, which is possibly one of the things you are interested in measuring.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3608 on: 25/02/2009 19:22:20 »
Thanks again, Hurray.

Counterpoints: I hope you get access!! Here's what I think, and it could apply to primarily-cognitive POIS.

CP, I know you're not wild about my first theory here, but please keep an open mind. One of my current POIS theories is that slow sperm production rate after O contributes heavily to POIS (testosterone fixes this). The other part of my theory is that oxytocin becomes depleted after O. (Levitra fixes).

In addition to your contemplated tests, is there a way to scan-measure those two (sperm production rate and oxytocin) before or after, and during POIS?

Also, I think adrenal and pituitary activities are important for scanning both during and pre- or post-POIS.

I could go on and on, it's like a candy store for a kid! Serotonin, dopamine, neurological orgasmic responses, etc. but the above two are my priorities.
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 07:08:08 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3609 on: 25/02/2009 19:39:04 »

Getting the right medical expertise seems to be the key to nailing POIS - hope it continues to work for you Demo :)


Hurray, this forum is critical, too. It took me two years to figure out that a combination treatment was necessary. I think there are 3 components to POIS cures:

1) Since no medical professional really understands POIS fully, we ourselves have to work harder at understanding our bodies.

2) This forum's posts about sufferers who are similar to us are important in sifting through an overwhelming number of possibilities. And forum feedback on our own path is very helpful.

3) It seems that finding a sympathetic (and secure!) endocrinologist is key.

Any other thoughts from anyone?

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3610 on: 25/02/2009 21:31:26 »
CP, I wish there was some advice or theory I could give but mine are on par with everyone else's.  I think it's awesome that you potentially have this rare opportunity.

Regarding my Endo - she shut me down yesterday and said that she will no longer test for POIS.  I could feel this coming so no hard blow there.  Instead I have an appt this afternoon with another doctor.  Go go persistance.

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3611 on: 26/02/2009 00:17:33 »
OK, funny stuff here.  I just returned from the doctor (family practice).

Quck warning though - I've stopped taking the PS suppliment to prepare for any tests so I'm feeling and writing in a bit of a cloud.

So I bring the Netherland study and newpaper article, and give them to the doctor.  As he's reviewing the lititure I'm rambling off all the symptoms, durations, and my speculations of causes - I suggest a 24hr urine cortisol test.  When he's done reading, he stares at the ground for like a minute (complete siliance), then he looks at the ceiling same amount of time, then all he say is 'hmmm' - I kid you not.

After I feel a bit awkward and question why I'm there, he says 'well I've never heard of this, and you should see an endocrinologist, and if I give one test that will never end, and it might be phycological, and these doctors from the studies aren't from the US'.  So I interrupted him and began talking so much he couldn't get another word in...it was quite rude.  BUT it worked!  I got the paper work for the test!

Here's my next steps:
- wait 5 days for the PS suppliment to leave my system
- ejaculate
- wait 1 day till symptoms are peak
- take the 24hr urine cortisol test

Any suggestions or comments on these steps (or the doctor :)) ?
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 00:24:23 by Limejuice »

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3612 on: 26/02/2009 02:14:59 »

One other thing - when I am suffering from POIS, it physically feels as if my frontal lobe of my brain has almost closed down, and what conscious thoughts I am having are coming from the sides of my brain, which apparently are the temporal lobes.

Wikipedia says:

Damage to the frontal lobes can lead to a variety of results:

Mental flexibility and spontaneity are impaired, but IQ is not reduced.
Talking may increase or decrease dramatically.
Perceptions regarding risk taking and rule abiding are impaired.
Socialization can diminish or increase.
Orbital frontal lobe damage can result in peculiar sexual habits.
Dorsolateral frontal lobe damage reduces sexual interest.
Creativity is diminished as well as problem solving skills.
Distraction occurs more frequently

Some of these certainly ring true from my experience of POIS. If I had to guess which area of the brain was most affected by POIS, I would definitely pick the frontal lobes. Plus, the frontal lobes is where most of the dopamine lives, which is possibly one of the things you are interested in measuring.


thats sounds a lot like me, I know I am smart, it's just that I can't perform that well.  I think when I get these headaches my frontal lobe is trying to come back from its current state.  This explains ADD
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 05:14:32 by goingcrazy »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3613 on: 26/02/2009 05:31:40 »

Regarding my Endo - she shut me down yesterday and said that she will no longer test for POIS.  I could feel this coming so no hard blow there.  Instead I have an appt this afternoon with another doctor.  Go go persistance.


Limejuice, you're an inspiration to all of us! Instead of being devastated, you moved rght on!



So I bring the Netherland study and newpaper article, and give them to the [new] doctor.  As he's reviewing the literature I'm rambling off all the symptoms, durations, and my speculations of causes - I suggest a 24hr urine cortisol test.  When he's done reading, he stares at the ground for like a minute (complete siliance), then he looks at the ceiling same amount of time, then all he say is 'hmmm' - I kid you not.

After I feel a bit awkward and question why I'm there, he says 'well I've never heard of this, and you should see an endocrinologist, and if I give one test that will never end, and it might be psychological, and these doctors from the studies aren't from the US'.  So I interrupted him and began talking so much he couldn't get another word in...it was quite rude.  BUT it worked!  I got the paper work for the test!

Bold and italicized/underlined emphasis mine - demo


Limejuice, I wish I could give you a Gold POIS Medal! Absolutely superb performance on your part! It confirms my hunch that a little aggression is necessary for all of us to get anywhere! Many docs are threatened by POIS because they have no clue how to handle this. So we must make them aware that we sufferers are willing to take the bull by the horns and be their medical partner! A leading one at that. Keep in mind that if you've been reading and/or participating in this forum, you know more than 99.99% of all docs about POIS!

Let's all do what Limejuice did, get angry and turn disappointment into results!
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 06:20:12 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3614 on: 26/02/2009 05:38:38 »

That [cognitive symptoms] sounds a lot like me, I know I am smart, it's just that I can't perform that well.  I think when I get these headaches my frontal lobe is trying to come back from its current state.  This explains ADD


Might explain my ADD too. Psychiatrically prescribed/monitored stimulants are working well for me to combat this. In addition to the Levitra and testosterone, those meds control my POIS - so far - VERY well.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3615 on: 26/02/2009 05:41:17 »
SOCIAL ANXIETY

We've discussed this as another POIS symptom. Today I spent ALL DAY and part of the night socializing! New people, too. EXTREMELY unusual for me. I attribute that to my POIS (and ADD) treatment.
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 05:50:12 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3616 on: 26/02/2009 05:46:59 »

Here's my next steps:

- wait 5 days for the PS suppliment to leave my system
- ejaculate
- wait 1 day till symptoms are peak
- take the 24hr urine cortisol test

Any suggestions or comments on these steps (or the doctor :)) ?


Brilliant.

The doctor? An expendable fool. With results, you can find another doc who doesn't need to be intimidated into getting off his ass.
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 05:51:14 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3617 on: 26/02/2009 07:15:00 »
CCconfucius, at the lab I got my test, the range for free testosterone was 24-95 pmol/L.  You may want to consult this:
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/intguide/EndoMetab/Gen_Misc/Testosterone/Table%201.pdf
The range will depend on the type of test you took.  I suggest you phone the lab you took the test at.

Limejuice, good luck, and good work.  Make sure you do the 24 hr test properly, and store it in the fridge for most of the time (but also make sure it doesn't freeze.. e.g. that the fridge isn't too cold).  This is really important, because it can affect the results.  The lab will tell you what to do, and if not, ask for instructions.

All, thanks for the suggestions.
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 07:40:50 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3618 on: 26/02/2009 18:12:18 »
OXYTOCIN

We've discussed the possibility of oxytocin depletion playing a role in POIS. New nasal spray being tested might be a partial POIS treatment?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7412438.stm

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3619 on: 26/02/2009 18:20:00 »

I agree the tests should be made when you feel the worst... 


B_Jim, I took the tests out-of-POIS. Only because I was just so anxious to get results faster. In my case, maybe I got lucky and that worked out ok, because I found that testosterone and prolactin are problems...always.

But I agree that in-POIS testing is important.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3620 on: 26/02/2009 18:25:51 »

CCconfucius, at the lab I got my test, the range for free testosterone was 24-95 pmol/L.  You may want to consult this:
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/intguide/EndoMetab/Gen_Misc/Testosterone/Table%201.pdf
The range will depend on the type of test you took.  I suggest you phone the lab you took the test at.


Thanks, Counterpoints, that was useful for me as well!

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Offline Pantaloon

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3621 on: 26/02/2009 20:20:13 »
What is the latest news about fenugreek or relora? Anyone?

Relora seems to work very well for me.
Been taking it for ~3 months now, at the same time as abstaining - allowing myself to recover and gain energy.
The weekend was my first orgasm in that time and had ~20% POIS systems.
This of course could be down to a number of things. However, I only took 1 capsule yesterday and when I woke up this morning, it felt like the POIS volume had been turned up. A couple more capsules and it's back under control.

I can still feel it's there but it's a shadow of it's former self.


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Offline Pantaloon

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3622 on: 26/02/2009 20:30:39 »
This time I realize a common reaction to orgasm which I'm not sure I have mentioned before, deepening of my voice.

I used to get a similar thing as part of POIS, although I'd describe it as my voice getting huskier, rather than deeper.
This went away after having half of my thyroid removed due to a follicular adenoma (non malignant lump).
 


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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3623 on: 26/02/2009 21:27:47 »

CCconfucius, at the lab I got my test, the range for free testosterone was 24-95 pmol/L.  You may want to consult this:
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/intguide/EndoMetab/Gen_Misc/Testosterone/Table%201.pdf
The range will depend on the type of test you took.  I suggest you phone the lab you took the test at.


Thanks, Counterpoints, that was useful for me as well!

Yeah that reference guide was very helpful.
Looking at both options giving  it looks like my free testerone is below what the normal range. But how will i explain that to doctor.

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3624 on: 26/02/2009 23:10:20 »
TESTOSTERONE

Hey everyone. :)

I'm aware that my contributions to this site are always simplistic, however it has occured to me that one of the greatest problems when delaing with POIS is the obvious lack of testosterone. A lack of testosterone can inflict many symptoms which all but match those of POIS.

One of the quickest ways to increase testosterone is to consume a lot of protein and amino acids.

Has anyone thought of consuming a large protein shake or something high in protein as a POIS cure?

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3625 on: 26/02/2009 23:59:55 »
I've done lots of research, like everyone else, on hormones but haven't posted many links to research.  The below link is the most comprehensive article I've found on cortisol and covers so much including suppliments, tests, foods, sex, other hormone interactions and more.

http://www.nutrition4health.org/nohanews/NNSp05Harding.htm

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3626 on: 27/02/2009 01:59:12 »


What is the latest news about fenugreek or relora? Anyone?


Relora seems to work very well for me.
Been taking it for ~3 months now, at the same time as abstaining - allowing myself to recover and gain energy.
The weekend was my first orgasm in that time and had ~20% POIS systems.
This of course could be down to a number of things. However, I only took 1 capsule yesterday and when I woke up this morning, it felt like the POIS volume had been turned up. A couple more capsules and it's back under control.

I can still feel it's there but it's a shadow of it's former self.


Congratulations, Pantaloon! And thanks for reporting that. Very encouraging.

B_Jim, do you think we can draw any conclusions yet about Relora?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3627 on: 27/02/2009 02:04:56 »

Looking at both options giving  it looks like my free testerone is below what the normal range. But how will i explain that to doctor.


CC, I think it's up to the doctor to explain it to you - not the other way around - and to tell you what treatment he recommends for you, and why. That's how I wound up with the T-patches.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2009 06:18:35 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3628 on: 27/02/2009 02:07:09 »

I've done lots of research, like everyone else, on hormones but haven't posted many links to research.  The below link is the most comprehensive article I've found on cortisol and covers so much including suppliments, tests, foods, sex, other hormone interactions and more.

http://www.nutrition4health.org/nohanews/NNSp05Harding.htm


thanks, Limejuice, I'm taking my first cortisol AM test March 2, so now I can obsess on your link info [:D]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3629 on: 27/02/2009 05:35:05 »

TESTOSTERONE

Hey everyone. :)

I'm aware that my contributions to this site are always simplistic, however it has occured to me that one of the greatest problems when delaing with POIS is the obvious lack of testosterone. A lack of testosterone can inflict many symptoms which all but match those of POIS.

One of the quickest ways to increase testosterone is to consume a lot of protein and amino acids.

Has anyone thought of consuming a large protein shake or something high in protein as a POIS cure?


Ambient, I think B_Jim had significant success with protein. Here are some interesting protein discussions at our forum:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=protein+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

After clicking above, look for the "msg" number in the post-link that interests you, but realize that numbers do change, so look before and after or use Ctrl+F to find the exact post.

Ambient, all posts are significant. Please don't minimize the importance of yours.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2009 19:01:15 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3630 on: 27/02/2009 05:41:36 »
POIS DIARY

It's been about 9 hours since Double-O. A miracle. I never thought after 30+ years of this agony, I would feel ok by now!

B_Jim and I discussed testosterone + Levitra + stimulants 2 years ago! I just didn't realize that they worked together...and I mistakenly thought that Levitra was the one and only key to my POIS...and I didn't know that T-patches (or gel) are far, far better than T-injections. Very simple. So if there is a lesson here, maybe the answers are right under our nose!
« Last Edit: 27/02/2009 06:33:27 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3631 on: 27/02/2009 06:04:05 »
MY LETTER OF THANKS TO THE SEX RESEARCHER
FROM THE CZECH REPUBLIC WHO STRONGLY URGED
ME TO LOOK AT TESTOSTERONE DEFICIENCY AS
THE BASIS FOR MY POIS:



      Subject:        We spoke a few years ago
     
      Date:            February 26, 2009



Hello Dr. ____________,
 

[After many, many failures with American doctors]
I telephoned you a few years ago [2002] about my postorgasmic symptoms and you [strongly] recommended testosterone.
 
I have been moderating an internet forum about this:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.new#new
 
We owe you a debt of gratitude!
 
Together with Levitra, and stimulants, the testosterone has cured my condition 75%+++ !!!
 
Best regards,
 

[demografx]

Note to all: this is not medical advice. Ask your doctor if you think testosterone or Levitra or stimulants may be right for you.
« Last Edit: 27/02/2009 06:12:52 by demografx »

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3632 on: 27/02/2009 13:13:51 »
TO B-jim:

To what extent would you say your POIS symptoms are alleviated due to this diet?

Are there any particular foods in the diet which make a greater difference?

Thanks

Ambient123

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3633 on: 27/02/2009 18:27:40 »
OXYTOCIN

We've discussed the possibility of oxytocin depletion playing a role in POIS. New nasal spray being tested might be a partial POIS treatment?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7412438.stm

Apparently the only problem with nasal sprays is that their effects are considered relatively weak and short-lasting; whether it would have enough effect to replicate what Levitra/fenugreek do for POIS I don't know, it would be interesting to find out!

Certainly protein-heavy meals help reduce my POIS symptoms, it was the first thing I discovered that significantly helped.

The whole testosterone/oxytocin theory is looking plausible at the moment (if only perhaps for one type of POIS), it will be interesting to see where this leads!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3634 on: 27/02/2009 22:13:31 »
POIS DIARY

Today is Day 1, the day after Double-O, where I normally would be feeling devastated. Unable to do much of anything.

Instead, I feel well and energized!
« Last Edit: 27/02/2009 22:33:03 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3635 on: 27/02/2009 22:32:04 »
HOPE FOR FUTURE POIS SUFFERERS?

This is a reply I received from the U.S. sex researcher (referred by an expert on Larry King Live)...who referred me to the one in the Czech Republic:

Hi, [Demografx],

"75% healed!!  That's terrific.  Thanks for the information. [I sent links to our forum, articles etc.]  This is some good stuff.  I've got it in the file and will make available to patients.  I've also been teaching about this at Hopkins.  We teach med students and psychiatric residents so we have a role in helping educate new medical practitioners who will be astute to the issues.  As always good hearing from you."

[name]
« Last Edit: 28/02/2009 02:09:31 by demografx »

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3636 on: 28/02/2009 01:04:36 »
Hey demografx,

That's brilliant about your POIS cure.

Where did you get Levitra and T-patches from?

Im curious as i may try that combination to cure my POIS, since it seems to have brought you great success. :)

Ambient

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3637 on: 28/02/2009 01:13:41 »
P.S

One thing i wish to add. I notice that supplementing phosphatidyl serine (PS) does help to alleviate any cognitive POIS symptoms, due to the fact that it helps to build Acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter which is "depleted by ejaculation" according to an article i read.

Demografx, are any of you POIS symptoms cognitive?

If so, you may wish to try PS on top of Levitra and T-patches, maybe get your success cure up to 80%? :D

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3638 on: 28/02/2009 01:43:32 »
Hey B_Jim,

Did you ever take protein supplements? There are many on the market, such as Creatine, and Whey protein.

Ambient
« Last Edit: 28/02/2009 01:50:05 by Ambient123 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3639 on: 28/02/2009 01:55:47 »

Hey demografx,

That's brilliant about your POIS cure.

Where did you get Levitra and T-patches from?

Im curious as i may try that combination to cure my POIS, since it seems to have brought you great success. :)

Ambient


Thanks, Ambient. But I don't think it's safe to try my "cure" unless you have the same symptoms as I do.

My healing formula started 7 years ago, and only confirmed just now. It's been a fairly convoluted path to get here.

For you and anyone else, I wouldn't try my formula just to cure POIS. First determine whether or not you have low testosterone and ED, which I have.

But I did set out at first to just heal my POIS with testosterone, based on the Czech sex therapist's recommendation. I was tested by a GP and urologist. They saw my testosterone as normal. I insisted on T anyway for POIS, and was treated with monitored depotestosterone injections with mixed results.

The breakthrough came several years later, after becoming more aware of hormonal testing at this forum, and upon visiting an endocrinologist, who put me on patches - which have much steadier results than injections. The endocrinologist based his Rx on my test results for total and free testosterone, which many doctors (including my GP and urologist) don't measure.

The Levitra was prescribed by my GP, for my ED. I wouldn't recommend using it for POIS if you don't have ED. At this time, we don't know what is in Levitra that contributes to healing. Maybe the stimulation of oxytocin? If so, there are substances to try that have fewer harmful effects, such as fenugreek. An oxytocin-based nasal spray is also being tested.

This forum made me more aware of what was working for POIS. Even then, it took me two years to understand that the combination of drugs is what works for me.

Become aware of the side effects of these drugs, they can be powerful. Both negatively and positively.
« Last Edit: 28/02/2009 02:13:43 by demografx »

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3640 on: 28/02/2009 02:20:11 »
Yeah, i suppose you are right. I had best find what works for me.

I certainly believe that i experience a large drop in testosterone after orgasm. I read that Testosterone drops by as much as 30%, more than im willing to let go of. :)

I suppose that's why the protein treatment works for some, because its the quickest way to increase Testosterone.

I certainly have felt benefits with taking high-protein foods, as well as sources of Phenylalanine to increase dopamine and PS for Acetylcholine. But im too worried in case the benefits are merely all in my mind.

Did you ever experiment with protein as a treatment for your POIS?

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3641 on: 28/02/2009 02:30:56 »
P.S

Do you think it's possible that my POIS could be significantly alleviated by taking a lot more protein?

Obviously, im not saying its a 100% cure, but even a 55-60% or something?
« Last Edit: 28/02/2009 02:32:56 by Ambient123 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3642 on: 28/02/2009 04:26:11 »

Did you ever experiment with protein as a treatment for your POIS?


Strange, I get a craving for carbohydrates in POIS and it seems to offer relief. Another indicator that we're all different!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3643 on: 28/02/2009 04:29:40 »

P.S

Do you think it's possible that my POIS could be significantly alleviated by taking a lot more protein?

Obviously, im not saying its a 100% cure, but even a 55-60% or something?


I think B_Jim and others here know a lot more about protein than me.

Did you see the forum posts on protein? (I think I gave the link on P. 156)
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg231451#msg231451
« Last Edit: 28/02/2009 04:38:08 by demografx »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3644 on: 28/02/2009 05:40:30 »
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/jan00-cover2.html
According to web site free testoterone is not binded to shbg, when testoterone is bounded to shbg it is not free for use.
I read somewhere else that total testoterone is measured becase it easier than free testoterone.

http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/effect-of-ejaculation-sex-on-bodybuilding-gains/

acording to website testorone jumps 50% after avoiding ejaculation for a week and then quickly drops back down to normal the next day.  i wonder if this is how body gets out of Pois for some suffers. 

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3645 on: 28/02/2009 07:30:01 »
acording to website testosterone jumps 50% after avoiding ejaculation for a week and then quickly drops back down to normal the next day.  i wonder if this is how body gets out of Pois for some suffers. 
Testosterone in the blood jumps 50% at day 7 and then drop back in the blood. Maybe testosterone is increased in other parts of the body because I rather feel a constant increase in testosterone after day 7 till day 21 or more.
« Last Edit: 28/02/2009 14:51:36 by martin88 »

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Offline rob58

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3646 on: 28/02/2009 10:04:06 »
CC:
Great articles, both. 

One thing that is interesting to me from the second article is the drop in angrodren (androgen?) receptors in rats' brains which then do not return to normal until 72 hours later. Just looking for that brain fog connection.

The first article lists some herbs that stimulate free testosterone and reduce estradiol. Does anyone have experience with Chrysin or Nettle?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3647 on: 28/02/2009 19:53:44 »
POIS DIARY

This is Day 2. The last 3 days (0,1,2) are superior to the first time with the new treatment a couple weeks back. I'd be safe in saying 80% to 90%+ healed this round. Unexpected. I thought it wouldn't go as well this time.

My confidence that this is "it" (healed) is high because last year - when I DIDN'T know the great results were due to a combo effect - the "treatment" lasted many months, albeit with slowly declining results because the testosterone was wearing off. I assumed that the results were all due to Levitra, so when testosterone was out of my system and Levitra alone only worked marginally, I assumed that my "treatment" (Levitra) simply was ceasing to be effective.

And this isn't just my 2nd time with this new Rx combo. It all started in 2002, when I began making those urgent, desperate calls to various "experts" (the Czech expert said "testosterone!" so I jumped at it and it worked great, but only the first time, since I didn't understand the limitations of depotestosterone injection). I thought it was a placebo effect.

This was after decades of failure with urologists, therapists, GP's, psychiatrists, religionists and the like. Even a dermatologist, who labeled himself "The King Of Dermatology". (In POIS, one of my symptoms is that my fingertips feel "dried up, numb, hot" and, that feeling inexplicably drives me crazy). The "King" laughed, challenged me, saying it was impossible to get dermatitis from O...yup, he ate his words after examining me (I had a hotline access to his office so that he could examine me immediately after O  : - ). POIS-dermatitis, there's another one for the medical literature!

In the early years I probably would've signed up for witchcraft, voodoo (expensive pins!) - - actually, any old charlatan would do.  [:)]


Note to all: this is not medical advice. Ask your doctor if you think testosterone or Levitra may be right for you.
« Last Edit: 01/03/2009 00:12:26 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3648 on: 02/03/2009 00:47:34 »
Demo, obviously there is something with testosterone. Your experience is highly helpful and encouraging. I can't understand why some other pois sufferers don't have this deficiency shown in blood tests. It would be so much more simple like that! Maybe low androgen receptors, but you didn't act on this, except with Levitra perhaps (absolutely not verified hypothesis) ... Do you think testosterone alone, without Levitra, can cure pois ?

Counterpoints, if possible maybe checking with fmri the amygdala, which is involved in social phobia would be useful. However since this part of the brain seems to change with different psychological situations it will be hard to say if orgasm is involved or not.

Amygdala's size change with testosterone :
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_26_155/ai_55165311

picture of amygdala with fmri :
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-news/2008/social-phobia-patients-have-heightened-reactions-to-negative-comments.shtml

Limejuice, your article on cortisol is very nice. "Cortisol is eating sex hormones", it would have been interesting to know more about this.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2009 00:52:47 by martin88 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3649 on: 02/03/2009 02:14:03 »

Demo, obviously there is something with testosterone. Your experience is highly helpful and encouraging. I can't understand why some other pois sufferers don't have this deficiency shown in blood tests.


Martin, thank you very much. My testosterone deficiency didn't show up either...repeatedly...for years! This forum led me to see an endocrinologist (maybe that's the key), who then tested me for free testosterone, along with total, SBGH, LH, etc. and only then did my deficiency show up!


Do you think testosterone alone, without Levitra, can cure pois ?


I think it might, Martin, for some people. Maybe even me. With daily T-patches, I noticed that my ED is improving! And just today I wanted to test your T-only hypothesis, but I was afraid of ruining my newfound peace of POIS-free mind!

I'm sure injectable depotestosterone wouldn't work steadily, but possibly the patches or gel might work because of their steady T-delivery.

I'm also on a fairly high dose with patches, 10mg per day. And as an aside, this 2nd round of success that I describe in my long post above, I increased my Levitra from 10mg to 20mg.

After 30+ years of severe POIS agony, I am thrilled with the results so far. Tomorrow, I am doing a 3rd round of bloodwork, including AM Cortisol, which is new (thanks again, forum!). Plus, I am confirming testosterone levels, prolactin, and DHEA-S.

My sky-high prolactin is still a mystery, but it doesn't seem to be affecting my life or POIS healing for now. And hopefully the next round of bloodwork/tests tomorrow will show prolactin improvement due to this current testosterone therapy.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2009 02:43:57 by demografx »