Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3650 on: 02/03/2009 02:38:36 »

Does anyone have experience with Chrysin or Nettle?


Rob, I searched all the previous forum posts, couldn't find either, but hopefully someone with experience will reply to your post.

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Offline hurray

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3651 on: 02/03/2009 03:15:39 »
Great news Demo! I hope this becomes a long-term solution for you, it goes to show that POIS can be beaten with persistence :)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3652 on: 02/03/2009 05:13:17 »
Great news Demo! I hope this becomes a long-term solution for you, it goes to show that POIS can be beaten with persistence :)


Thanks, Hurray! Yes, persistence I agree is the key. Still, so far, it does feel like a
miracle. I hope it's not a dream. If it is, don't wake me up!

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Offline rob58

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3653 on: 02/03/2009 09:02:27 »
Quote
I can't understand why some other pois sufferers don't have this deficiency shown in blood tests. It would be so much more simple like that! Maybe low androgen receptors,

Martin and Demo,
It seems to me too that testosterone absorbtion can be the culprit, even if it does not show up in low levels of free testosterone in the blood. As Martin mentioned, there may be a deficit in androgen receptors. If that were the case, we should probably still observe symptoms that are similar to hypogonadism, right?  Question is, what test would be available to identify this problem of low androgen receptors?

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3654 on: 02/03/2009 13:01:43 »
MILD POIS HEALING

Hey everyone,

Just to say that i have recently experimented with Phosphatidyl Serine (PS) and Protein for alleviating POIS symptoms.

What i do is, after orgasm i immediately take a PS tablet and eat a protein-heavy snack. I have noticed some improvement of my symptoms, which aren't as intense or extreme as they were before this experimentation. Improvements include:

Greatly alleviated depression, more joy
Slightly improved energy, less fatigue.
Very little improvement in cognitive symptoms, however, although some improvement is noticed.

Basically, it seems that this combination does work to some extent. I feel though that my Acetylcholine is still burned greatly after orgasm, and as a result i do feel some of the symptoms of low Acetylcholine, such as reduced ability to understand written or spoken language, and difficulty finding the right words. Thus i feel that Acetylcholine plays a significant role in my POIS.

Any suggestions as to what i could take to increase Acetylcholine levels significantly? Any advice in general?

Thanks

Ambient. :)

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Offline healthy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3655 on: 02/03/2009 16:13:23 »
Hello,

I'm new here. So... to summarize the prescriptions that help would be the following.

1. fenugreek (safe and works for most people. mildly decreases symptoms)
2. relora (safe but may incur headaches. modestly decreases symptoms)
3. levitra + testosterone combo (may have side effects. significantly decreases symptoms)
4. garlic (safe but not sure if it works)
5. low fat diet (mildly decreases symptoms)
6. protein (mildly decreases symptoms)
7. Phosphatidyl Serine (mildly decreases symptoms)

Clarifying questions
1. How long do you have to follow the prescriptions? If you cease the treatment will the symptoms reappear?

2. What is the specific dosage for the levitra+testosterone combo? How long do you have to take it for? What are some of the side effects? Will this not increase your want for sex or increase the frequency of wetdreams?

thanks in advance for your replies.

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3656 on: 02/03/2009 16:17:55 »
Low importance observations: 24 urine cortisol test

I took the 24 hr urine cortisol test and follow the procedure outlined herein.   I had the after being Phosphatidyl Serine free for 3 days.  

Day 0 was brutal.  

Day 1 I didn't have any POIS symptoms (none)

Day 2 I didn't have any POIS symptom AND I took the cortisol test

The results will take a week before I know them.  So I'm concerned that I didn't have POIS that the results will be inacturate.  I don't know why I didn't have POIS (following the plan outlined) but have theories:

- The PS has a long lasting effect.  Several day withdrawel was not long enough.
- The thyriod medication is really kicking in.
- I had a lot of good things happen in my life that prevented stress (I bought a new house, I saw my parents whom I hadn't seen for several months, I hosted a house party).

I'll post the results from the cortisol test when I get them.

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Offline healthy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3657 on: 02/03/2009 17:19:14 »
One more question.

Phosphatidyl Serine and Relora both seem to reduce stress by managing cortisol. Has anyone used these together? Would it be harmful to use together?


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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3658 on: 02/03/2009 18:18:53 »
One more question.

Phosphatidyl Serine and Relora both seem to reduce stress by managing cortisol. Has anyone used these together? Would it be harmful to use together?

I used them together.  They didn't have an extreme effect, and didn't reduce my POIS.  I doubt they are potent cortisol reducers, otherwise they would likely be used in managing Cushings and other diseases.  Instead, they use ketoconazole (which has risks), etc.

Also a beta-blocker (specifically bisoprolol) greatly helped one of the POIS sufferers here.  Based on an endocrinologists opinion, and on what I've read about the experimental use of beta-blockers to treat nervous system conditions, propanolol would probably be better to experiment with.  This is partly based on past successes in such novel experiments, and also because it is a non-specific beta blocker.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2009 18:44:58 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3659 on: 02/03/2009 22:35:42 »
One thing i should probably mention about my original POIS (without treatments) symptoms are that they are somewhat delayed

For example, Day 0 (day of orgasm): Fine

             Day 1: Still fine, though feel somewhat unbalanced

             Day 2: This is when most symptoms tend to kick in, especially concentration and cognitive symptoms.

             Day 3: Still bad, though beginning to fade slightly

             And so on...

Any thoughts or ideas?

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3660 on: 02/03/2009 22:55:21 »
POIS Update:
I recently had an NE with some minor POIS symptoms. I had been consuming cooked whole clove garlic daily at the time.  A few days after the NE I switched to eating crushed garlic, slightly cooked, 2 or 3 cloves per day with my supper. I let the garlic sit after being crushed for 5 min or so before the slight cooking.  Read this for info on how crushing garlic alters its chemistry. Last Friday morning I had another NE (for me they often occur in clusters).  This time I had no POIS symptoms, and I am favouring the theory that garlic is helping something in my system. 
 [:)]

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3661 on: 03/03/2009 00:10:59 »
Also, just to clarify, is excessive cortisol a possible cause of POIS?

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3662 on: 03/03/2009 00:23:18 »
Also, just to clarify, is excessive cortisol a possible cause of POIS?

Possible.  High cortisol causes cognitive symptoms somewhat similar to POIS.  It could also be an "effect" of POIS, or something that comes with POIS, but does not cause it.  e.g. the hypothalamus and pituitary are responsible for regulating sexual response.  But they are also partly responsible for regulating cortisol levels.  So a pituitary problem could both cause POIS and high cortisol levels.

In either case though, lowering the cortisol levels is extremely important.

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3663 on: 03/03/2009 00:24:04 »
Hey Demografx,

Just to ask, how did you set up an appointment with an Endocrinologist? Just wondering as i wish to arrange one for myself

Thanks

Ambient

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3664 on: 03/03/2009 00:25:14 »
Thanks for clearing that up, Counterpoints.

However, i always believed that orgasms were supposed to reduce cortisol levels

Is this not the case?

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3665 on: 03/03/2009 00:33:20 »
Thanks for clearing that up, Counterpoints.

However, i always believed that orgasms were supposed to reduce cortisol levels

Is this not the case?

It depends.  Normally, following orgasm, there is a release of tension.  So it makes sense this would have a mild cortisol reducing effect, on normal people. (e.g. see: http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/reprint/177/1/57.pdf).

However, I don't expect orgasm to reduce cortisol for us. 
1) Because we get stressed out after orgasm, because of the symptoms. 
2) A pituitary problem could both cause high cortisol and orgasm problems
3) High cortisol can cause similar cognitive symptoms.  In fact, orgasm may be stimulating the release of cortisol, causing our symptoms.  For instance, orgasm could potentially stimulate pheochromocytoma.


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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3666 on: 03/03/2009 00:38:41 »
I see, so for all i know, a pituitary tumor or problem could be causing my POIS?

It's interesting, because my main POIS symptoms are cognitive. Plus, after orgasm, i do feel more...how shall i put it...Stressed. Hyper, and unable to focus on things. After orgasm i feel like i am in some kind of rush.

Do you currently have an Endocrinologist? Because i wouldn't mind seeing one and getting that checked.


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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3667 on: 03/03/2009 01:09:30 »
I see, so for all i know, a pituitary tumor or problem could be causing my POIS?

It's interesting, because my main POIS symptoms are cognitive. Plus, after orgasm, i do feel more...how shall i put it...Stressed. Hyper, and unable to focus on things. After orgasm i feel like i am in some kind of rush.

Do you currently have an Endocrinologist? Because i wouldn't mind seeing one and getting that checked.


I have seen an endocrinologist.  We are investigating the cortisol issue.  But I doubt an endocrinologist you see will have many ideas about POIS.  I had the cortisol tests before I saw the endocrinologist, and I would recommend you do the same.... otherwise it will take you longer.  At best (likely), the endocrinologist will just order these tests, and you will have to wait longer to deal with any potentially abnormal results. After you get the results (normal or abnormal), push for an endocrinologist visit (my advice).

24 hr urine while symptomatic is probably the best test to get.  I would approach a GP, with the Waldinger paper, and other information, in order to get this test. 

Other tests worth getting (while symptomatic), are Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone, LH, FSH, Prolactin, IGF-1, TSH, Free T3, T4, and DHEA.

In my opinion the 24 hr urine cortisol, prolactin, free testosterone, and TSH are the most important of these tests.

I recommend taking the questionnaire at http://pois.olympe-network.com

There are sometimes physical signs of chronically high cortisol.  e.g. thinning skin, fat accumulation on stomach, near collar bone, and face.  skin conditions.  insomnia, etc.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 03:52:11 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3668 on: 03/03/2009 01:48:48 »
Thank you Counterpoints for your kind advice.

Unfortunately, my GP is not convinced of any orgasm-related illness. All that he has done is merely referred me to a Councellor. God knows why. I refused to see her, though, and have lost faith in his ability to deal with the issue. I doubt he will consent to give me such tests, as he will probably deem them wasteful.

That is why i am seeking an endocrinologist, to get an expert opinion on the matter and more in-depth tests.

I have attmepted to treat it myself and self-diagnose, however my lack of expertise makes such an endeavour almost impossible.

How did you go about getting an appointment with an endocrinologist?

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3669 on: 03/03/2009 03:41:13 »
I would see a different GP.  I saw an endocrinologist through a referral from another medical doctor.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3670 on: 03/03/2009 06:33:32 »
Hey Demografx,

Just to ask, how did you set up an appointment with an Endocrinologist? Just wondering as i wish to arrange one for myself

Thanks

Ambient

Ambient, I called a local major university medical center's Endocrinology Dept. and asked if they worked with sexually related problems. The doc's resume was on their website and I felt that this is a world class facility. They treat many celebrities, Sidney Poitier was there on one of my visits. For insurance, my complaint was 'hormonal balancing". The endo I saw liked the fact that Dr. Waldinger's study co-author is an endocrinologist. This doctor (my endo) is a full professor at the University, 30 years experience. He was also impressed with our forum's successful existence.

He took my POIS seriously, referring to it as "your syndrome". Yesterday was the 3rd lab work he scheduled for me, plus he authorized an MRI of the brain (pituitary). Unfortunately not all doc's are this enlightened. It often requires a little pushing on our part since we're not mainstream patients. Good luck!
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 17:49:35 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3671 on: 03/03/2009 06:42:43 »
Ambient, the NY Times article is also good to show docs that our syndrome is not "in our heads".

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3672 on: 03/03/2009 11:18:58 »
I have posted an extract of " A hypotetical explanation of panic disorder" (german journal of psychiatry,2001). During panick attacks, body converts steroids (DHEA) to cortisol. Priority for body is to keep cortisol to normal level.
Thanks B_Jim, I put a link here : http://www.gjpsy.uni-goettingen.de/gjp-article-howard.pdf

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3673 on: 03/03/2009 13:22:33 »
One thing i should probably mention about my original POIS (without treatments) symptoms are that they are somewhat delayed

For example, Day 0 (day of orgasm): Fine

             Day 1: Still fine, though feel somewhat unbalanced

             Day 2: This is when most symptoms tend to kick in, especially concentration and cognitive symptoms.

             Day 3: Still bad, though beginning to fade slightly

             And so on...

Any thoughts or ideas?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3674 on: 03/03/2009 15:48:20 »

1. How long do you have to follow the prescriptions? If you cease the treatment will the symptoms reappear?


No norms have really been established. We're all still experimenting.

In my case, when I stopped testosterone the POIS symptoms returned.


2. What is the specific dosage for the levitra+testosterone combo? How long do you have to take it for? What are some of the side effects? Will this not increase your want for sex or increase the frequency of wetdreams?


Again, we're in an experimental mode. And I don't know how safe it is to take this combo just for POIS if you don't need it for the classic symptoms of ED and low testosterone.

I would suggest seeing your doctor and discuss what you found in this forum, then let him decide. He may do the hormonal testing himself, or refer you to an endocrinologist to get a hormonal diagnosis, as mentioned often here at the forum.

In my case, as prescribed by my endocrinologist after blood tests revealed low testosterone, high prolactin, plus an MRI scan of my pituitary was performed before Rx: I apply 2 5mg Androderm testosterone patches = 10mg daily, every day, with or without POIS. And as prescribed by my GP doctor: Levitra 20mg before engaging.

My side effects have been, with T-patches: slight burning and itching at contact sites. I also had an allergic reaction of intense itching one day and discontinued the patches for several days. But as others have experienced, the itching and burning subsided. Levitra side effects have been some tiredness. But others have experienced all types of side effects for both drugs, from minimal to very serious. Your doctor and pharmacist and pharmaceutical manufacturer's product information literature are the ones to consult about this.

You asked if this can increase desire? Yes it can, but in my case that has been compensated for with POIS relief as long as I stayed on the medication as prescribed.

Hope this is useful.
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 16:52:53 by demografx »

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3675 on: 03/03/2009 15:52:50 »
B_Jim,

That is a very interesting point about the inflammation/alleric theory. I had noted that.
 
Are there any specific details regarding this inflammation theory? For example, what hormones/chemicals are affected?


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3676 on: 03/03/2009 16:17:51 »
Ambient, you might want to obtain Dr Waldinger's paper. Just send a Private Message to "pyropeach" requesting it, and give him your regular email address so he can send the PDF.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 16:33:41 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3677 on: 03/03/2009 16:36:55 »
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 16:39:56 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3678 on: 03/03/2009 18:02:35 »
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 18:18:21 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3679 on: 03/03/2009 18:07:19 »
Quote

I can't understand why some other pois sufferers don't have this deficiency shown in blood tests. It would be so much more simple like that! Maybe low androgen receptors,


Martin and Demo,

It seems to me too that testosterone absorbtion can be the culprit, even if it does not show up in low levels of free testosterone in the blood. As Martin mentioned, there may be a deficit in androgen receptors. If that were the case, we should probably still observe symptoms that are similar to hypogonadism, right?  Question is, what test would be available to identify this problem of low androgen receptors?


Rob, could "ask the endocrinologist" links above (immediately preceding post) be a type of source to ask your excellent question about androgen receptors?
« Last Edit: 03/03/2009 18:20:06 by demografx »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3680 on: 04/03/2009 00:32:03 »
B_Jim,

That is a very interesting point about the inflammation/alleric theory. I had noted that.
 
Are there any specific details regarding this inflammation theory? For example, what hormones/chemicals are affected?



Ambient---
I am strongly leaning to Waldinger's auto-allergic cause of POIS for me. At the moment, I am looking at Histamines as a possible trigger for my POIS. As far as I can see, they are very involved in orgasm/ejaculation, and for me all my other issues of anxiety/panic and allergies seem to have very similar symptoms as POIS. I am trying to figure out how to suppress the histamines. Perhaps we POIS sufferers just produce too much histamine at orgasm, and there is a cascade of allergic type symptoms that we call POIS. And maybe it just takes "time" to leave the system. There is also a precursor to histamine, but I can't recall it right now.

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3681 on: 04/03/2009 01:20:14 »
B_Jim,

That is a very interesting point about the inflammation/alleric theory. I had noted that.
 
Are there any specific details regarding this inflammation theory? For example, what hormones/chemicals are affected?



Ambient---
I am strongly leaning to Waldinger's auto-allergic cause of POIS for me. At the moment, I am looking at Histamines as a possible trigger for my POIS. As far as I can see, they are very involved in orgasm/ejaculation, and for me all my other issues of anxiety/panic and allergies seem to have very similar symptoms as POIS. I am trying to figure out how to suppress the histamines. Perhaps we POIS sufferers just produce too much histamine at orgasm, and there is a cascade of allergic type symptoms that we call POIS. And maybe it just takes "time" to leave the system. There is also a precursor to histamine, but I can't recall it right now.

Several years ago I tried taking antihistiminesfor POIS.  I noticed a slight improvement.  After a while they seemed to make me tired themselves.

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3682 on: 04/03/2009 02:08:41 »
Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks to you Finally :)

Well, i have done a little research, and found an amino acid that reduces histamines, it's called methionine.

Taken from an article i read:

"Histamine levels will decrease and symptoms lessen in response to daily doses of methionine, an amino acid that significantly detoxifies histamine by methylating the ring structure forming N-methyl-histamine in the brain. Typical dose is a 500 mg capsule taken four times daily"

Has anyone tried methionine as a POIS cure?

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3683 on: 04/03/2009 03:10:10 »
Finally & Ambient
I'm not sure that basic antihistamines (oxymetazoline) will work. Waldinger is talking about autoinflammatory issues. If histamines are released as triggers for orgasm/ejaculation, there may be a more complex chemistry involved afterwards. Even if it is just Histamines (my hope), there may be other therapies needed to reduce POIS. I'm aware of Methionine, Quercetin, corticosteroids etc, but these may not be totally effective. It just seems that POIS for me comes on like an allergy, hits a peak like an allergy and fades like an allergy. I can see why oxymetazoline is ineffective.
It's like giving yourself a jolt of adrenaline on top of Histamines. It may work for stuffed sinuses etc, but epinephrine, seratonin, dopamine, cortisol, prolactin etc. are all probably sky high at Orgasm (along with other pro-inflammatory proteins), and a basic antihistamine may do more harm than good. There may be a simple answer, but it will probably take a whole bunch of experimentation if the Histamine theory is valid. Maybe a combination of therapies. I've wiped myself out over the last two weeks just to come to this result. It sure seems the most obvious for me, but who knows?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3684 on: 04/03/2009 05:59:39 »
Approx 280 Results from searching Histamines on previous forum posts. Put this in to Google search box:

Histamines pois site:http://thenakedscientists.com

Careful with spaces vs. no-spaces and placement of two colons.
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 17:45:39 by demografx »

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3685 on: 04/03/2009 11:23:27 »
Demografx, i have looked at the NY times article you provided in great detail.

Much thanks to you :)

An interesting point the article brought up was that SSRI's were successful in alleviating Post Orgasm depression in their patients.

But hasn't the SSRI theory already been dismissed as being largely ineffective?

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3686 on: 04/03/2009 12:01:59 »
Ambient---
I am strongly leaning to Waldinger's auto-allergic cause of POIS for me. At the moment, I am looking at Histamines as a possible trigger for my POIS. As far as I can see, they are very involved in orgasm/ejaculation, and for me all my other issues of anxiety/panic and allergies seem to have very similar symptoms as POIS. I am trying to figure out how to suppress the histamines. Perhaps we POIS sufferers just produce too much histamine at orgasm, and there is a cascade of allergic type symptoms that we call POIS. And maybe it just takes "time" to leave the system. There is also a precursor to histamine, but I can't recall it right now.
Underwater, perhaps you'll be interested to search for the following keywords: histadelia, histapenia. Maybe pois is attacking where we're weak and that's why you have similar symptoms, but it's interesting, I'll read more on allergies.
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 12:19:49 by martin88 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3687 on: 04/03/2009 16:04:32 »

Demografx, i have looked at the NY times article you provided in great detail.

Much thanks to you :)

An interesting point the article brought up was that SSRI's were successful in alleviating Post Orgasm depression in their patients.

But hasn't the SSRI theory already been dismissed as being largely ineffective?


Not completely. B_Jim, Counterpoints, Martin, Underwater, John21, anyone else: do you agree? I think it has been dismissed by this forum as a POIS cure-all. But just for the depressive symptoms, I still think SSRI's can help. They helped my depression overall somewhat, and it's hard for me to distingush historically between my POIS-depression and non-POIS depression.

Either way, the article, written by a psychiatrist, helps in my opinion to establish credibility with medical doctors, including endocrinologists (mine liked it) who want us to "just go see a psychiatrist or psychotherapist, this (POIS) is all in your head"!

This article + Waldinger's paper are very useful in my opinion - to show/convince medical personnel to take us seriously!
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 16:46:09 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3688 on: 04/03/2009 16:36:29 »

Do you think testosterone alone, without Levitra, can cure pois ?


Martin, I conducted a science experiment just for you [:D]

On two recent occasions, I took Levitra several hours afterwards. My guess is that testosterone accounts for 70% to 80% of the healing, for me.

I should add that Rx-stimulants also play a role in my POIS healing, including caffeine (the latter which I have cut back significantly as per doctor's orders).

My guess is that Rx stimulants + caffeine together account for 10%+ of the healing.

Martin, as I'm sure you can appreciate, statistics are difficult to estimate based on such subjective experiences with constantly shifting variables such as mood, refractory periods, etc.

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Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3689 on: 04/03/2009 18:02:52 »
Short update:
I am going to see a top endocrinologist next week. Who has extensive knowledge about adrenals, thyroid, testosteron and all. I am much inspired by the successes on this forum, so thank you all for sharing! For the last year and a half I had been seeing 3 Chinese doctors who blamed it on the kidney yin, qi and yang, their herbs did help but nowhere near curing. Before that, Western docs easily blamed my mind.

Anyone who wants to test, read the surprising manuals by Girlwind and Michael8028 elsewhere on this forum. They have recommendations what to test and where to test without prescription. Edit: I have found testing facilities at regular hospitals to get tested as well. It might give you a head start but not replacing doc's opinion. Of course this is not medical advice.
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 21:24:27 by rock27 »
POIS, fatigue, brain fog, can't find words, irritated, can't concentrate.

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Offline healthy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3690 on: 04/03/2009 18:18:09 »
Ambient---
I am strongly leaning to Waldinger's auto-allergic cause of POIS for me. At the moment, I am looking at Histamines as a possible trigger for my POIS. As far as I can see, they are very involved in orgasm/ejaculation, and for me all my other issues of anxiety/panic and allergies seem to have very similar symptoms as POIS. I am trying to figure out how to suppress the histamines. Perhaps we POIS sufferers just produce too much histamine at orgasm, and there is a cascade of allergic type symptoms that we call POIS. And maybe it just takes "time" to leave the system. There is also a precursor to histamine, but I can't recall it right now.
Underwater, perhaps you'll be interested to search for the following keywords: histadelia, histapenia. Maybe pois is attacking where we're weak and that's why you have similar symptoms, but it's interesting, I'll read more on allergies.

has anyone had their histamine levels tested? If the theory is that too much histamine is produced than taking zinc, vitamin B, folic acid and protein is actually bad because this increases the histamine level. However, if there is a deficit (too much histamine let out in ejac) that taking the essential vitamins and eating alolt of meat would help. From past discussions it seems that the vitamins and protein helped.

Am very confused on which way to go.... does anyone know how to get histamine tests?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3691 on: 04/03/2009 18:20:06 »

Short update:
I am going to see a top endocrinologist next week. Who has extensive knowledge about adrenals, thyroid, testosteron and all. I am much inspired by the successes on this forum, so thank you all for sharing! For the last year and a half I had been seeing 3 Chinese doctors who blamed it on the kidney yin, qi and yang, their herbs did help but nowhere near curing. Before that, Western docs easily blamed my mind.


Rock, congratulations on your upcoming endocrinologist appointment! I, too, gave Oriental Medicine a try, but I think the answers are still with Western docs, as frustrating as they can be sometimes. We just need to manage Western docs better.

We're making progress!!

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Offline healthy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3692 on: 04/03/2009 19:32:52 »
A useful site on histamine. In order to know ones histamine level a sophisticated blood plasma test may be required. Has anyone had this?

newbielink:http://www.goldbaum.net/balance/Whats_Histamine.html [nonactive]

Also, a histamine diet is available. Experimenting with this may be useful.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3693 on: 04/03/2009 20:04:54 »

does anyone know how to get histamine tests?


I called my university lab, and they said if you go to your doctor and say you want allergy testing, he could provide you with a lab order for "histamine testing" but they said that the word "histamine is too general" according to this lab. They said that your doctor can order the specific test(s) needed or refer you to a specialist who would give you an order for the test(s).

You would then take the order to the lab of the doctor's (yours or the referred doc's) choice. Be sure to check with your doctor on the best way to do this for insurance.
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 20:11:48 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3694 on: 04/03/2009 20:43:55 »

Anyone who wants to test, read the excellent manuals by Girlwind and Michael8028 elsewhere on this forum. They have recommendations what to test and where to test without prescription.


I'd like to add my endocrinologist's warning that "saliva testing is very inaccurate". My endo prefers blood tests always. However, some specific tests might only be available with saliva or urine. My endo was referring to testosterone, prolactin and the like.

Also, some docs will only accept results for follow-up treatment from "a respected lab." I assume that this rules out many "mail order" or no-prescription-required labs.  This is a vague area, but you should be aware of this controversy and advise the doctor you wish to work with as to which lab you're contemplating so that there won't be any misunderstandings later.

Rock, I don't know enough to say who is right or who is wrong. But as moderator, I simply want to have both sides presented fairly, so that you and the readers here can make up their own mind.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2009 05:41:05 by demografx »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3695 on: 04/03/2009 20:55:28 »
POIS and SSRI's----------
I have no experience with SSRI's and POIS, but I do have experience with Valium and POIS. Valium helped considerably for the 3 months I took it. POIS was very tolerable.
But now, Valium is toxic to me. Very strange, but true.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3696 on: 04/03/2009 21:16:20 »

POIS and SSRI's----------
I have no experience with SSRI's and POIS, but I do have experience with Valium and POIS. Valium helped considerably for the 3 months I took it. POIS was very tolerable.
But now, Valium is toxic to me. Very strange, but true.


Interesting, Underwater. Valium seems like a good GAD fighter. But I guess our bodies metamorphose now and then!

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3697 on: 04/03/2009 21:47:12 »

Anyone who wants to test, read the excellent manuals by Girlwind and Michael8028 elsewhere on this forum. They have recommendations what to test and where to test without prescription.

I'd like to add my endocrinologist's warning that "saliva testing is very inaccurate". My endo prefers blood tests always. However, some specific tests might only be available with saliva or urine. My endo was referring to testosterone, prolactin and the like.

A physician friend was talking to a really good endocrinologist, who said that salviary tests are often the best tests for cortisol.  (Partly because you can easily take very important late night tests... cortisol is supposed to be suppressed at night, so it is helpful to get a late-night reading).

It's important that whatever tests you're taking are controlled enough that a physician will recognize them though.  There are FDA approved salviary tests.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3698 on: 04/03/2009 21:54:30 »

Demografx, i have looked at the NY times article you provided in great detail.

Much thanks to you :)

An interesting point the article brought up was that SSRI's were successful in alleviating Post Orgasm depression in their patients.

But hasn't the SSRI theory already been dismissed as being largely ineffective?


Not completely. B_Jim, Counterpoints, Martin, Underwater, John21, anyone else: do you agree? I think it has been dismissed by this forum as a POIS cure-all. But just for the depressive symptoms, I still think SSRI's can help. They helped my depression overall somewhat, and it's hard for me to distingush historically between my POIS-depression and non-POIS depression.

Either way, the article, written by a psychiatrist, helps in my opinion to establish credibility with medical doctors, including endocrinologists (mine liked it) who want us to "just go see a psychiatrist or psychotherapist, this (POIS) is all in your head"!

This article + Waldinger's paper are very useful in my opinion - to show/convince medical personnel to take us seriously!

I think the article is useful, but it's conclusions aren't very strong.  It's not a rigorous discussion.  We don't really get much information about the symptoms, and so on. 

As far as SSRIs helping.... there are some mixed results.  Zoloft supposedly helped one person with POIS.  Each SSRI will vary.  Prozak is "good" (ironically) in the sense that it tends to reduce sexual functioning more than the others.

Others here have had very negative experiences with SSRIs.  And others yet, have had neutral experiences.  e.g. with these people it affects mood but not POIS.

So no, SSRIs are not the big answer.  But they might be worth including in your experimentation.

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Offline neverstop

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3699 on: 04/03/2009 22:03:30 »
Hello all,
This, my first post here will be brief, but as a long time sufferer (who admits to being too embarrassed to speak to my Dr.) of POIS, I did at least wish to stop by and provide my thoughts from the perspective of one who (like many here I see) never stops seeking answers to most aspects of life. I need to be brief, as, at this moment I have a bit of the "brain fog"(unrelated to POIS) which I find to be the "hallmark" and most debilitating aspect of this post orgasmic condition. As I have tirelessly sought relief for a severe accident caused spinal condition, I have been observing, testing, researching, and continually adding to my ever larger body of successful self treatments, devices, and nutritional supplements. As a side benefit, I have observed that my pois symptoms have changed throughout and within the last 2 weeks the addition of L-Tyrosine has apparently provided the final puzzle piece for me and I thought I'd begin my own discussion with all of you at this time.
1. I think that pois will be different for everyone depending on age, general health, and many other factors.
2. I believe that the orgasmic "refractory period" and general sexual interest observations played a big factor.
3. Sleep and neuro-chemical depletion of the 4 primary transmitters plays in BIG. Dopamine-Acetylcholine-GABA-Seratonin
4. Supplementation with their precursors is vital for a balance of proper brain functioning.
5. The neurotransmitters have an associated hormone that plays a significant part and my testosterone cream took me down the right path.

Got to Go!

Will be back

My best

Never-Stop